Mini 1458 - Don't Feed the Bears! - GAME OVER

[Thor665]

Did things get real?
I suppose they at least got more verbose.

greetings,

Who should I be sheeping right now? I haven't read anything and am unlikely to bother.

[Thor665]

There's the rub Thor.

How so?

Here's the deal. PA is pretty town. I've had uneasy feelings on rat, BS and MR. Recently MR has gone up the list. Your slot I've read as town. PA doesn't seem to think so. That's pretty much it.

So you want to lynch BS, and maybe MR?
Why is Penguin Alien town?

I thought TUNNELSNAKES was town until both heads of the hydra managed to flake.

Because scum hydras normally have both heads flake, while town hydras do not, amirite?
...um...you've...seen that...?

but I've lost my strong town read on the slot you're replacing into.

Because it committed a null tell, or for any reason I should care about?

tl;dr of this game, Aunt Jemina tried powerbussing N64Lord with a faked town PR result only for the town cop to show up with a guilty on her. We lynched the two scum, scum NK'd the cop and a shady-looking townie. Lynching scum, great; those lynches leaving us with minimal clues on who's the last scum, less so.

Has anyone offered a theory about why the shady looking towny was NKed by the scum?

Yeah Thor I'd probably suggest a glance through Aunty J's posts and maybe N64's.

I'll take that under deep, deep advisement.

Who do you think we should lynch and why?

[Thor665]

We also have a flipped roleblocker and a dead cop.
WHo has recommended that we massclaim today?

Because I want to support that person as obv. town.

if no one has then I am now obv. town and you can all support me.
Damn, I make this look easy, don't I?

Now that I'm confirmed you can all answer my questions with that in mind too.

[Thor665]

P-edit: way to set up a scenario where you/your slot is supposed to be seen as conftown any way you slice it...

I know, right, I thought it was pretty clever!

So we had a massclaim already - everyone claimed VT?
Simple setup is simple.
I love you Yates

Scum killed yabbaguy prior to killing the claimed cop, but that would have been while they still had a RBer, and I'm guessing they RBed the cop.
So...yeah, they had a strategic reason for that.

Who were the people pushing for a yabbaguy lynch and who was yabbaguy trying to get lynched?

Edit: Ah, that might make that one easy.

@Baby Spice - how did he treat the two replace outs differently?

[Thor665]

Yes, they did leave the cop around on the apparent hope that we'd think he was scum bussing AJ and lynch him instead of N64Lord. Which didn't work out so well when N64Lord claimed to have jailkept himself...

Serrapaladin was the last person seriously going after yabbaguy. And serra was the N1 kill. So I'm not sure why one would kill both sides of an argument like that.

Failed mislynch attempt turning to awareness cop needed death? Sounds like they also killed him after the RBer was lynched, so there is that too.

I'm good for a rat or BS lynch mainly due to poe. Your slot I read as town due to their posts. Same for PA.

Has anyone looked through the scum postings and ruled out anyone that way?

[Thor665]

@Kthx - two questions.

1. Why are you clearing yourself - is anyone attacking you as scum?

2. Why do I rate below Ree on your list, I appear to have shown up in more revelations as to why I would be town than him, what is the unmentioned stuff pushing him higher and/or me lower?

[Thor665]

2. Like?

[Thor665]

286 and 323 seem to scream 'not partner' to me. What am I missing?

[Thor665]

And it matters insomuch as I'm scumhunting you.
You just extroverted doing a lot of scumhunting - now it gets looked at, that's the way things work.

[Thor665]

286 - because scum would want to call that out and get people thinking along those lines because...
323 - still don't follow how that looks scummy.

I don't care about how baby Spice and pappums rank lower than me, that seems supported in your conversation. I'm curious why Ree ranks higher.

[Thor665]

1. Since I wasn't here, clearly that isn't the reason.

2. Okay...

3. I never said that, why do you think that's my goal?

[Thor665]

That's fascinating yet, has no bearing on anything I've said or done.
So...?

Here's a newslfash - I'm actually asking someone to justify their list.
Go back and read his posts - then tell me it makes sense that you ended up higher than me.
I'll wait.

[Thor665]

I'll look up 263.

I already have a gut town on Baby.

[Thor665]

Vote: Aunt Jemina

Not fullclaiming when asked when you already claim to have ROLE RELATED information that supposedly incriminates N64Lord is retarded, scum would already know that you have a PR and would likely target you with a kill or other night action anyway, so "not giving the scum extra information" is an invalid reason not to do the protown thing and fullclaim. You need to claim in your next post.

I don't feel that's particularly scum/scum.
it's not a strong feel.
It's about all I get.

What'd you get out of it?

[Thor665]

And didn't they get that lynch, and it gained them squat and diddly, because multiple scum were boned at that stage?
Meh.
Maybe, not really sold on it.

[Thor665]

I'll agree it's not much.
It's why I'm not much sold on it.

You still haven't addressed this;

I don't care about how baby Spice and pappums rank lower than me, that seems supported in your conversation. I'm curious why Ree ranks higher.

[Thor665]

Sort of skimmed over a couple of pages.
Pretty certain Baby Spice is town and that my gut read is correct.

Who are the people wanting to lynch her?
I want tto hear some justification.

[Thor665]

What's the PoE?
You seem to think I *could* potentially be scum.
Therefore the PoE is flawed, yeah?

[Thor665]

I have been providing reads, I literally just announced my Baby Spice one and you responded to it and that's how we're in the current conversation.

Do you think Baby Spice has done anything scummy, or is it just a lack of doing pro-town things?

[Thor665]

If I knew who I'd lynch today then I'd be voting them and requesting people sheep me.
I don't have a read on Penguin because she's hardcore not posting anything right now.
I'm working on my Ree read and my read on you - when I get there I'll let you know.

Did anyone else try to halt the 64 wagon besides Spice?
Because I have to admit that sounds like a town action, frankly.

[Thor665]

Kthx, context is a beautiful thing.

WHY CAN'T A JAILKEEPER AND A ROLEBLOCKER BE IN THE SAME GAME?

@Kthx - I have to agree with the spice of babies here - functionally what you're accusing her of saying that was scummy was an answer to a question someone else asked. Why is that scummy for her and not me? Frankly it looks massively more scummy for me, if that is a scumtell. Like, 300% more scummy, a large degree of the scumminess seems like it would be on my head, not hers, no matter how it is cut.

Am I missing something?

[Thor665]

How scummy looking was Kid A?

[Thor665]

Well, thanks for making me go back to d1.

Question: is it common for (what are the odds) all scum to be on a town mis-lynch d1?

UNVOTE:

You did at least spot why I asked - town points there.

As to all the scum...well, it happens. It is less common than having some scum voting on the wagon and some scum off though. I would pretty much assure one was on, I would even expect two. But three...it sort of depends what the wagon was like, which is why I asked.

[Thor665]

Still down for lynching P-Rat.

Why?

[Thor665]

Can you clarify reason 2 with some examples?

[Thor665]

@Mr. Ree - besides Pappums, who do you think is possible scum?

[Thor665]

Oh, and on the off chance AJ flips town watcher and I end up dead tonight, I expect speed lynches of HD and Lord with little to no discussion.

Then hammer away alien...

in fact, you seem to have a habit of quick pushing the lynches to end discussion...

Yes, how scummy of him to try to set up that if his scumbuddy flipped town we should quicklynch his other scumbuddy and some town player.
Duecedly clever of him.

What is this gak? That makes him look painfully town to my mind.

Also deadline is currently listed as within 10 hours - wtf?

@Mod - requesting deadline extension. Another 48 hours (at least) would be awfully nice just since I only was given less than 3 days upon the point of my replace in.

@Town - get some votes in play.
I think I support Ree or Pappum's for the rope.

[Thor665]

And yet you're mudslinging on Kthx, so...not really impressed by that answer.

[Thor665]

it's part of the reason we got into this mess and that fault was partly mine also for not asking for more from N64.

You mean like Pappum's tried to?

[Thor665]

I'm not aware that he was even around after the hammer. I know he did so prior to the hammer.

As far as my reads...haven't I announced them already?
I sort of feel like you aren't reading right now and trying to make me think you are.

[Thor665]

Didn't you request a deadline extension so you could get a firmer grasp? I've read this thread multiple times, that's why I haven't moved my vote.

I requested the deadline extension because I thin the town needs it to pull together a functional wagon.
I openly announced who I wanted to lynch.
Read m0ar?

I wasn't aware he was around before it... could you quote that post from day 3 where he asks?

Literally Kthx and I just discussed it a page or so back.
Kthx was even using it as a scumtell on him.
Also, the Rat has an iso.
I reckon you can search that down as well as I could.

[Thor665]

As of this point I already missed the deadline.

So either we just no lynched or I'll get my requested extension - one or the other.

[Thor665]

So where the heck is the Penguin and why am I supposed to believe it is town?

[Thor665]

Well, clearly because I was lying for scumvantage and not because I'd mixed up Baby Spice and Pappum's in my head.

I would think by the time you saw 693 that would be clear - what confuses you here?

[Thor665]

So that's what you had to post from work?

Intent to hammer

What now, brown cow?

[Thor665]

Look at my reads after I die and take another look at HD's. I have a feeling I was set up for this but I'm way too busy to figure out how. Has something to do with Yabba I think. Penguin made a good point about that earlier.

[Thor665]

You can?

Here's my case: you feel fake.

Carry on.

[Thor665]

Look at my reads after I die and take another look at HD's. I have a feeling I was set up for this but I'm way too busy to figure out how. Has something to do with Yabba I think. Penguin made a good point about that earlier.

What?

Oh, and this face was for the 'I've been set up' gak when your case is basically that the scum team is made up of a series of players *well known* for their Machiavellian plots of double blind bluffs to set-up town for death.

[Thor665]

Tbh, thor is prob town. PA pointed it out. Thor doesnt ask for more time while fully justified in hammering by the previous deadline.

I unvoted because p705 reads extremely town to me. Thoughts Thor and PA?

Felt scummy to me, what of it?

What feels fake? That sounds like a Thor-scum response.

Afraid to be tied down to anything in particular?

Yes, that's why immediately after that I described something you said that sounded fake to me.

This bravado and sudden suspicion? It also feels fake.

[Thor665]

Oh, and here's a third one - you 'can't post till after work' but you have enough time for a weak sideways psuedo attack?
Fake.

[Thor665]

Ooooh, wait, and here's a fourth one.
You don't even note Penguin's point about me.

Because, y'know, scum Thor would ask for more time and hit deadline instead of just voting you - y'know, for scumvantage.
You, of all people, should know I'm town.
But you don't.
Because you're being fake.

Is that enough to tie me down?
Chew on it and get back to me.

[Thor665]

Here is the crux of my unease. BS and rat seem fine and dandy to sit back and let their votes not move and let MR dig his own. I don't like that. It's scummy lurking. They only post if someone directly forces them to. I see your points, and I can feel them. Problem is, BS and rat could also be looking fake and what not kept they aren't posting. So I don't know which is scummier. Constantly posting or actively lurking.

I agree that Pappums looks bad.
I will say, sadly, that lurking is what I'd expect from both of those players regardless of alignment.
Did you see Scum Ree as a lurker or no? Because if no, I don't see much of particular worth here.

The bravado, as you call it is because I'm probably going to be lynched and want my dying words to be the name of the last scum. The suspicion isn't fake, your case on me wouldn't come from a town Thor. Try again.

You don't say.
What do you want to wager on my alignment, y'know, since you're so good at reading me?

Have you read the game yet? Do you intend to?

No and no.

Fake like that?

Nope, like as in actual scummy fake.
Good job expanding one thing into three fakes - none of which are actually fake in the least, and all of which are explained by a rather shockingly non-scum motivated error. But, sure, tell me my scum plan there, I'd love to hear it.

[Thor665]

My biggest worry. We lynch MR, he flips town. We NL tomorrow. One of us ends up with Rat and BS in end game....

I'd be okay with that.

[Thor665]

sigh...can we lynch rat first and if he's town, NL and then promise to lynch MR?.

What does this change?
Also, I'd oppose 'no lynch'

[Thor665]

I win: "Mr Ree is the best self wagon analyzer on site", you win, your choice. I will reveal what I think to be your alignment before the day ends.

Are you blinking?
Feels like you're blinking.
Fakey, fake, scum trying to get me to agree to fakey fake bet is fake.

Vote: Mr. Ree

[Thor665]

Or, to clarify, you are serious about that bet. But you want it to be 'before day ends' so that when you, as scum, are lynched, you can call me town and win the bet.
So, y'know, fake in that sense.

[Thor665]

I mean, you even just got done calling my case a 'scum Thor case' but now you don't want to reveal what you think my alignment is till 'end of day'
*cough*

[Thor665]

Bawk bawk bawk....

*flaps arms..

Uh-huh.

What alignment do you think I am?
C'mon, I'm even voting now and am not going to move, and Kthx will be the hammer, so you know what the wagon will look like.
Toss it out there.
You can read me, after all.

[Thor665]

Thor665, why would you oppose no-lynching at MyLo?

I have yet to notice scum killing people I suspect when a no lynch is decided upon.
So, y'know, unless we have a hidden power role I don't see how it's going to "help our chances" by removing a lynch option I never would have taken.
If a player has literally no reads and is just going to randomly choose then it will help their chances - but except in that situation it does not. Therefore it is dumb unless it is done for PR advantage.

[Thor665]

"Thor could be town" is the grand extent of the prediction?
Color me amazed.

[Thor665]

I was only interested in it if you're calling me scum like you appeared to be doing at the time.
If that was posturing for...no actual reason, then no, no bet.
But if you're calling me scum - yes, bet is on.

[Thor665]

Except I was obvious town already, and you were making derp posturing about how scummy I was looking.
If that was town Ree...then, what the hell?

[Thor665]

I dislike you on a slightly visceral level still, Mr. Ree.

[Thor665]

We shall debate that in post game.

My thesis is - you got suspicious of me when I acted worked up at your bet wording when you phrased the bet in a way that would allow you to switch and call me town if you wanted. My initial commentary was clearly desiring the bet based on you calling me scum (for reasons of 'ability to read Thor' that were clearly bogus) and also I didn't hammer you with deadline as an option. That made me, from your perspective, painfully obv. town - and yet you reaction fished me to the point of advancing your own lynch. Seriously...whut?

Vote: Pappums Rat

Let's do this.

[Thor665]

So is this a PoE thing or an actual 'caught scum' thing?

I don't even know what you're asking there.

Vote no-lynch

This is dumb unless you have no town reads.
Since I'm blatantly obv. town - it is probably dumb.

[Thor665]

Because I got a town read on you myself.
And I wanted to lynch Pappum's more than Ree yesterday until Ree took a level in derp-reaction test.

[Thor665]

So...by no lynching there are three possibilities of what will happen;

1. You will die and not need to decide squat.
2. Your scum read will die, you will need to pick between your town reads.
3. A town read will die, you will need to pick between a scum and town read.

#1 is "easier" but is not really helpful in winning the game.
Do you really forsee #2 or #3 helping you decide? I mean, really? DOn't bother telling me the options, but ask yourself if that will actually make the choice easier for you.

[Thor665]

Thor, what's your reason for thinking pappums rat is the scum? Your ISO from yesterday had him as one of two lynch choices, but there wasn't much reasoning given.

I see him less as scum then I see other players as town.
I don't see any town energy from him ergo he is scum. Make sense?

Lol clearly #1 wont happen and #3 will help but I see what you mean.

#3 won't help unless you're saying at that stage you'd vote the town read.
At that point I don't get the reason to even have the scum read, and why not at least debate bewteen your town reads then.

[Thor665]

I also intentionally didn't openly state my gained town read on PA in the hopes of gakking with the scum kill logic.

[Thor665]

What are all the claimed roles at this stage?

[Thor665]

Because everyone else is a VT, right?

[Thor665]

So Tracker/Cop/BP vs. Rolblocker/Goon/?? is what you're looking to sell right now?

Did you breadcrumb?

[Thor665]

Unvote: Pappums Rat

@BS - why don't you believe the claim?

[Thor665]

I mean, if he breadcrumbed I'd tend to believe the claim.

[Thor665]

I'm just going to toss out that I suspect the claim is false and that the game is perfectly balanced with 2 PRs vs. 2 goons and RBer.
That said I think I owe it to myself to reconfirm my belief that BS is town.

I suppose for me my hesitance is that the BP would be the only apparent town defensive power...and I do think mods dry hump the legs of protective powers and tend to like to include them.

[Thor665]

Not always is hardly 'not normally'.

[Thor665]

Official Vote Count 1.6

Baby Spice:

Kid A

[L-6]

Kid A: TUNNELSNAKES, N64Lord, penguin_alien

, Baby Spice,

Aunt Jemina

, pappums rat,

Kthxbye

yabba: Mr_Ree

[L-6]

Aunt Jemina

:

Human Destroyer, yabbaguy

[L-5]

Not voting:

serrapaladin

Lynch has been achieved.

Official Vote Count 2.2

Baby Spice:

Kid A

[L-6]

Aunt Jemina

-

Human Destroyer

, pappums rat,

N64Lord, yabbaguy, Kthxbye, TUNNELSNAKES

N64Lord

-

Aunt Jemina

Not voting:

Penguin_Alien

, Baby Spice,

Mr_Ree

Lynch has been achieved.

Official Vote Count 4.9

Lynch has been achieved.

pappums rat -

Mr_Ree

Mr_Ree

- Baby Spice, pappums rat,

Thor665, Kthxbye

Not voting:

Penguin_Alien

[Thor665]

2.2 is a big kicker for me - scum were either bussing or not bussing.
Baby Spice was not bussing...while trying to defend N64 Lord who was the only other possible wagon.
I wonder if there are any other good Vote Counts...

[Thor665]

Wait, gah, gakked that up - hold on.

[Thor665]

Official Vote Count 1.6

Baby Spice:

Kid A

[L-6]

Kid A: TUNNELSNAKES

,

N64Lord

,

penguin_alien

, Baby Spice,

Aunt Jemina

, pappums rat,

Kthxbye

yabba: Mr_Ree

[L-6]

Aunt Jemina

:

Human Destroyer, yabbaguy

[L-5]

Not voting:

serrapaladin

Lynch has been achieved.

Official Vote Count 2.2

Baby Spice:

Kid A

[L-6]

Aunt Jemina

-

Human Destroyer

, pappums rat,

N64Lord

,

yabbaguy, Kthxbye, TUNNELSNAKES

N64Lord

-

Aunt Jemina

Not voting:

Penguin_Alien

, Baby Spice,

Mr_Ree

Lynch has been achieved.

Official Vote Count 4.9

Lynch has been achieved.

pappums rat -

Mr_Ree

Mr_Ree

- Baby Spice, pappums rat,

Thor665, Kthxbye

Not voting:

Penguin_Alien

[Thor665]

Why is it unlikely to have2 scum on a 4 man wagon?

Also, if what you're saying is true then 2 scum (and only 2 scum) were not voting - does that seem normal or not to you?

[Thor665]

For the record I still think it's unlikely to be Thor, if it is Thor he has to be a traitor, an unlikely role, and the Rat would have to be a BP townie, also unlikely.

Also, I'll just toss out - if I'm a traitor then on what night was I recruited?
We aren't missing any kills. So even if I was a traitor I would still be town right now.

[Thor665]

I would give up Baby Spice's left pinky finger to actually get some commentary out of the Rat.

[Thor665]

95% of numbers on Mafiascum.net are rectally extracted.

[Thor665]

I think that if you look at the AJ/N64/HD situation that played out you will see that I am town and will come to the right decision.

What about them?

Because I kinda want to lynch you.
And by 'kinda' I mean 'really, really, really, with a cherry on top'.

[Thor665]

BS avoided the HD wagon too though, didn't she?

[Thor665]

Was there even a HD wagon?

[Thor665]

Same argument: Baby Spice could have started a HD wagon, because he didn't he is town.
Discuss.

[Thor665]

@BS - you're supposed to do something with that revelation. Either call me scum and vote me, or rule it out and keep voting Pappums. You went neutral and basically are standing by - why?

[Thor665]

Vote: Pappums Rat

Baby Spice has me hoodwinked if that slot is scum.

[Thor665]

Derpa-derpa.

[Thor665]

That result makes me feel better about Yates' game balancing

[Thor665]

It's becoming a rare thing to have a game balanced...apparently.

I thought it was a fair game and excellent modding because I never much thought about you - which to my mind is the perfect mod.

[Thor665]

I agree that Thor should have been killed ages ago.

I did try to soft play my realization PA was town...I'm not sure if that affected the scum kill of Kthx over me, but it was a goal and helped seal Pappums a bit more for me.
I dunno - if I was scum I would have killed me probably.

Sweeeeet. Right again!!! I think I've really perfected that method. Thanks for listening to me guys. It's been a blast.

I didn't listen to you The others may have though, I can't say.
But, yes, your reads were solid.

But, yeah, now that it's after the fact - what was with your play day before last? Did that have a point? The focus was nicely on Pappums and you did what you did to reaction test me, who to your slot should have looked obv. town? I really don't get it - what was the concept there?

[Thor665]

"Penguin_alien is not so much of a town read for Thor"
-Pappums

Brilliant! ::performs victory jig of semi-decent plan sort of working::

And reading the dead QT basically tells me that apparently not advocating no lynch in a mylo situation is somehow a scumtell...weird, even though apparently it applied to me and then everyone else agreed to it, but it made me look scummy. Not buying that scumtell m'lads. At least now I'll have this (and my host of other times) to show I do that as town a lot and consider it good strategy.

[Thor665]

@Thor, I was solidifying my reads. I wasn't sure about how townie you actually were. Kthx was the swing vote and I figured that between him and alien, I could still pull out of it. With less than stellar activity and a fast approaching deadline, I had to confirm both myself as town and Pappums as scum

Yeah...

But the only reason you got yourself lynched instead of Pappums being lynched was because you did what you did. So why not...y'know, not do it and then get scum lynched?

[Thor665]

"But then Thor suddenly, just out of wanting to get SA to pay attention to the Townie's case more, said stuff about "he'll give everyone $1,000 if he's scum". For some reason, instead of that AtE causing SA to look at the case one final time like Thor intended, he actually SNAPPED and voted me, his leading Townread for the win."
-yabba

Forgot about that one - that as a crazy game

[Thor665]

I seem to remember it being you and I having an epic debate trying to sell a couple of insane guppies on listening to common sense (or scummy sense, as the case may be )
But, yeah, I recall thinking I was on the ropes, otherwise I wouldn't have gone that goofy.

[Thor665]

I have to admit I still fail to grok the point you're making.

I was the ramrod that settled that you were going to be lynched.
Without me - you wouldn't have been.
I didn't go all out on you till you started lying about meta awareness of me and pulling what you indicated afterwards, was a gambit to get a read on me...at a point I don't understand why you needed to get a read on me.
Why'd you do that part of it?

Functionally that is the same as lynching Pappums first and auto lynching you second, i your result was to lynch you first and then (hopefully) lynch Pappums. Functionally it was making it harder to accomplish what you seem to be suggesting that you wanted to accomplish.

Am I being dense here? I feel dense but your answers don't make sense to me at all.

[Thor665]

I mean, I suppose at the core my question is - why, as town, lie bout scum meta about me, act serious about it, get dancy about being serious about it in a way that leaves open a play option for you as scum, and then continue to scumhunt me at a point were I was dramatically in a position to legit lynch you if I was scum and chose not to - all for the purpose of 'clearing' me...which, functionally, had already been done, in order to get Pappums lynched...which is what is exactly would have happened if you hadn't done all the above?

Even if it 'removed you as a suspect' um...yeah...but that was still a mislynch, and I certainly (I can't speak for any others - maybe Spice and Penguin did sheep your reads, i dunno) came into the final day actively choosing to disregard any of your reads because, as far as I could tell, you were playing terribly.

What am I getting wrong in the above? Because that's what I see and that's what is confusing me about your plan.

[Thor665]

Also I was pretty much confirmed town about twice over.
There is that too.

[Thor665]

You 'needed' my vote at L-1 to get a read on me?
And my town move was to vote you? I don't see how that was 'too late'. Also, you didn't call me town till after the hammer on you, your gambit seemed to be about the bet - but the only reason the bet was even in play in the first place was because you lied about your awareness of my scum meta - why wouldn't that get a negative reaction from me regardless of your alignment? That's even what *did* get a negative reaction from me. You, functionally, demanded I vote for you, regardless of my alignment, and then I did. What am I missing here? Why lie about your meta awareness of me in a way that was unquestionably going to get a negative reaction from me? I mean, you're lying about my meta - that's going to get you or me lynched at that stage...I don't see how it won't. And I really don't see why that should happen if you wanted Pappum's lynched.

I question your play because I like to understand things. I think it makes me a better player.

[Thor665]

And actually I wasn't lying about the scum Meta. You were playing similarly to hillbillies at the time and I KNEW you were scum there. I just couldn't say that outright.

Except clearly that is not a valid tell on me whatever you spotted, since I do it as town - making it a poor thing to claim knowledge of.

[Thor665]

I can always tell a Thor-scum case from a Thor-town case on me.

'Always' isn't 'I have a vague suspicion off about...what, 2-3 games we've played together?'

That felt ungodly fake.
It was such a blatant lie...why say it?

[Thor665]

If you could then why did you call a Thor-town case one that no Thor-town would make - which you did do.
Was that a lie at that point? Or did you believe it, and therefore you aren't able to tell a town/scum Thor and you're lying now?
I mean, I even demurred about the bet the *instant* you implied the read might not be a scum read - if you were trying to just read me, why not react to that instead of continuing to push it. You seemed to have ample Thor=town evidence besides your supposed meta-read of my case.

Clearly that point is still bugging me, i still don't get the value of the self-kamikaze as a townvantage move.
I will admit I sort of feel like you claimed it as scuh after the fact...except I still can't figure out the reason to have done it in the first place regardless.

[Thor665]

Even if you were trying to read me off the bet.
I brought up the bet - and I *wanted* you to bet that I was scum, and *then* you demurred...that's like the opposite of reading the bet.

Also, your conclusion seems flawed even if you thought it was legit, as shown in my sig *right now* I will happily make and lose a sig bet, as scum, just for scumvantage. So even your clear of me feels flawed, because I would think I have apparent meta that I would insist that you bet that I was scum and that would be the only way I'd take the bet. Why'd you rule that out?

[Thor665]

I've certainly pulled similar gambits on a number of occasions. It's a good wifom tool.

[Thor665]

I think my favorite was, as a last scum, I demanded a claimed Vig shoot me.
Claimed Vig was a non-BP SK - he figured I was a PGO and didn't want to go mess with that.
SK became busted and town lynched him.
I became 'confirmed town' because everyone else figured I was PGO too.
Then it became painfully clear why the last scum wouldn't shoot me.
Winsauce.

Heck, Ree has even seen me as "scum" in Hillbilly requesting that the Mason/Miller/Vig crew shoot me. So I pulled the gambit there too.
I suppose this is more evidence that you should always sheep Thor

[Thor665]

I don't support that...

[Thor665]

The claims definitely ate them alive during that scuffle. A 2 for 1 cop exchange - pretty excellent for the town.