Mini 1483: Finagling of Flitter Hills

[notreallygood]

Role confirmed.

[notreallygood]

Have any of you played together before?
How many games have you played on this site?
What is your win ratio?
Why shouldn't I lynch you?

1. Ironically, I know someone here, and I've just played together with him in a recent game I joined.
2. Very ironically, I've only finished one game, despite the fact that I joined this site four months ago.
3. victory/loss= 0/1
4. Because you're going to regret it.

This is my first game on this site.

Have you played in Meat World or other sites then?



Also, since it's RVS...

VOTE: yessirree

Sorry, but I don't like usernames that begin with the letter 'y'.

[notreallygood]

Have any of you played together before?
I love you.

How many games have you played on this site?
I love you.

What is your win ratio?
I love you.

Why shouldn't I lynch you?
I love you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILOVEYOU

[notreallygood]

Personally, I don't think those questions are really kind of a big deal. I mean, we get to know how many games you've played, and then what? Is that going to help us hunt the scum? TSO and yessiree not willing to answer the questions doesn't necessarily mean they're (or one of them is) scum.

I've never seen people arguing about some questions that have nothing to do with the game. This is just ridiculous.

[notreallygood]

Would someone mind explaining what's going on since post 50? I'm kind of lost.

Also, FeelIt, what about the others? You've only got reads on four people?

[notreallygood]

People should give out more reads. That would make things more organised and let others know clearly what's happening now.

[notreallygood]

You're giving me a really bad feeling by constantly asking for reads.

I've only asked once. Besides, I ask for reads because I've had to read your (some of the players) posts a few time to understand what's going on. It just looks messy to me.

@ TSO and notreally- Homework: make a list of all the players in the game (including yourself.) Give your impressions of each player so far. Extra credit if you rank your scumreads at the top.

Smudger: He's V/LA.

yessirree: He thinks brjl is scummy (post 36), but I can't really tell since brjl hasn't been active for a while.

brjl: Same as above.

beast: Despite what some of you are thinking, I don't think beast has done anything wrong. He reminds us constantly that we're out of RVS and we have to be more serious, which I agree because I feel lost due to the unseriousness of some of your posts.

kcda: Sorry, but I have no idea what this guy's doing.

don: He says he feels lost. I agree with that.

Titus: He seems town to me. He has tried to scumhunt with acceptable reasons.

runnerman: His vote is RVS. What can I say about that?

paper: He seems town. He's used a quite clever strategy to remind sthar that what he's doing is not very town.

FeelIt: Can't say anything about him judging on his posts. He is neutral.

TSO: He hasn't done any suspicious. A neutral player to me.

sthar: I hate to say this, but sthar is the most scummmy one right now. Most of his posts don't make any sense, which is why he needs to be more serious.

Sthar, I think you're the one that should give out reads. Seriously, I've read your posts a couple times and I still don't get what you want to say. What are your thoughts on everyone here?

[notreallygood]

[quote="In post 118, sthar8"]
I'll keep on being a c**t./quote]

Why would you be a c**t when you can just play normally? Such act will greatly hurt the town.

[notreallygood]

How has anything I've done so far been consistent with a scum win condition?

You don't have to be a scum to be lynched. If you've done things that're scummy enough, other players may make a policy lynch.

I remember the last time I played, my behaviour was just like yours. I got lynched even though I was town.

Sthar, please don't be a c**t.

[notreallygood]

Lynching him just for being annoying is terrible play, we need to deduce whether he's actually scum or not.

I agree.

However, policy lynch isn't terrible. It's just controversial. Some people like it, some don't. Unfortunately, in the last game I played, some of the players encouraged it, and thus I ended up getting lynched. I'm just afraid that some people here would prefer this kind of lynch and make us lose an opportunity to lynch the real scum.

Also, I'm sitting on the fence because there are quite a few people here who haven't posted anything particularly useful:
1. Smudger is V/LA.
2. don hasn't been paying attention (he stated that himself).
3. Most of yessiree's posts aren't related to the game and he's currently inactive.
4. I don't know what's going on with Kcda.
5. Paper hasn't posted for a while now.
6. brjl and runnerman have been proding.

Therefore, we can only wait for Paper now.

UNVOTE

because we're out of RVS.

[notreallygood]

Does this mean you consider his behavior a town read? (regardless of annoyance and such)

It depends on that player's experience. If he has played so many games, then it's very unlikely that he's scum, because that kind of behaviour would be very suspicious. He must have some sort of plans or something like that. (In fact, sthar's had a plan all along, which means my guess is correct)

@TSO, did that readlist by notfeelinggood look like a huge fencesit. Everything is seems.

pretty much, yeah. He has what, 2 townreads and a scumread? Pfft.

I even admitted that myself. See post 130.

@notreallygood
Besides this site, how experienced with playing mafia are you?

I've played hundreds of games with my friends in Meat World. I've also played on others sites, but I quickly lost interest in those. That's why I come to this site.

All right guys. As promised, this is an explanation of everything I've done in game so far, along with the conclusions I've drawn...

Personally, I like just playing naturally instead of using plans. That's just my style, though.

[notreallygood]

This was...weird. Only four reads on four random people in the thread? It seems pretty half-assed and scummy. But at least he's giving us

something

.

That's because those four people were the only ones that had put serious votes on someone and had their standpoints. The others either were inactive or had had very few posts.

117 by notreallygood is giving me scumvibes. He churns out a reads list after TSO finally acknowledges how he keeps asking for them and star actually gives him "homework". I feel scum would oblige and do the homework more than town would. And his reads list is terrible.

126 and 127 by notreallygood are just asking star not to be a cunt...and he doesn't even respond to Titus who correctly said his "reads" list was one giant fencesit.

That's because I thought it was more obligated to remind sthar about that. I was afraid that if he kept going on like that, he'd get lynched sooner or later, and we would lose a potentially helpful townie. I responded to Titus in post 130. That wasn't too late, was it?

My reads list may look terrible and seem like I'm fence-sitting, but that's my style. I can't be absolutely sure whether a player is town, nor can I criticize them. Everyone has their own value. Overpraising or criticizing them will only hinder their play and leave a bad impression.

2) When you "don't know what's going on with someone", you should ask them questions rather than just sit there and ask for reads.
3) You said star was scummy but you still had your RVS vote on someone and didn't vote for him? What's up with that?

2. I don't understand

EVERYTHING

that Kcda has posted. I can't just ask him 'What do you mean in this post? What do you mean in that post? What do you mean...', right? If it were just a few posts that I don't understand, I'd surely ask him.

3. Because at that time, sthar had already announced that he was going to explain his plan. I'd prefer to wait for his explanation rather than putting more pressure on him (he was on L-3 already).

[notreallygood]

My kcdaspot townread is from early on. I thought his post after he voted you was very good and I agreed with it. I do agree that he hasn't done much but I don't want to lynch him.

And I don't see your scumread on runner man. He's had little content, but the little bit he has had reads very town to me.

And notreallygood is scummy. What is wrong about my attack specifically?

Madam, I understand you want to hunt the scum, but there is no need to hurry. You have to have a clear mind when playing Mafia.

First of all, It is

ME

who don't understand Kcdaspot. If you said his posts were so easy to comprehend, then why didn't you explain it to me?

Besides, why do you think Kcda and runnerman are town? You haven't explained that either.

Also, Even though sthar was only L-3 at that time, I had to remind him of his behaviour. That's because I'd had similar experience, and I had a feeling that if he kept going on like that, he would get policy lynched. You may not understand, because that's something related to personal experiences and cannot be expressed by words.

Moreover, I said "Smudger is V/LA" instead of simply "Everyone else: can't read" because I have a certain habit of explaining everything. Again, that's my style.

Look, I love your spirit of finding the scum, but I see your posts are a little bit too subjective and discourteous. For example, When Paper said I wasn't fencesitting, you immediately disagreed with that and asked him "How is that

not

fencesitting?", which is a little rude in my opinion. Besides, he had already given his reason in his post.

Another example is when you described Feel It as "half-assed and scummy" just because he had only given reads on four people. If you had read the posts coming after that, you would've known that he did that because those were the only people whom he could give opinions on.

Lady, don't push it too hard. It'll do you no good.

[notreallygood]

NRG are your serious here? up to this point had been very quite.

NRG, well the Don is scummy statement stands out, simply because there is no real explanation at the time, could be something could be nothing,

1. I was serious about giving out reads. I've already explained the reasons in that post. I mean, would you rather read one post that briefly lists out the impression of everyone, or thousands of posts that are extremely complicated? The reads doesn't have to be very good. The most important purpose is to let everyone here understand what's going on.

2. What? I've never said Don is scummy. Do you mean sthar? Well, I did suspect him a little bit that time, but then he told us all those unnatural behaviours were just a plan (and a quite smart one actually), so he's now town to me.

[notreallygood]

His few posts have highlighted important things as well. Plus, he's being open about not being active early on, which I think scum are less likely to do.

1. "Important things"? Sorry, I've read his ISO again and again, and I can't find the "important things" you're mentioning. Would you mind pointing it out?
2. What...what? So, being open about not being active early on is a town behaviour to you? I've never seen anyone using that criterion to determine whether a player is town or scum.

Before any of you say that is a scum slip confirming 3 scum players in the game. I am asking because they said the scum team is 3 people. They first implied they knew there were only 3 scums to the scum team.

Sorry, but who are "they"? And since when have "they" implied the number of scum in this game? I may have overlooked something.

[notreallygood]

29, 37, 133, 144, and 181 are all highlighting important things.

And notreallygood, where else have you come across someone being open about low activity early on? And when has that not been alignment relevant?

OK, if you still resist my opinions, then it's pointless to argue with each other now.

[notreallygood]

@ Charizard- So your read on runner is conditional upon your read on Elyse? That is to say, if Elyse didn't look scummy to you then runner would be null or less scummy? That's fair. I don't agree, and I personally don't have a lot of success looking for teams on day 1, but it's fair.

Actually, I've just come up with an idea: what if Elyse is town, and the scum is using her to defend himself so that he would look less scummy?

Beast has made a theory that Elyse could be working together with the scum, which is also plausible, but experienced scum players should be distancing themselves from each other.

Just a thought, though.

[notreallygood]

Did you get this idea after reading my post by any chance? Your second sentence there echoes what I just said.

No. I just happened to have got this idea.

I don't like this post. They can't 'use' her, if she defends them it's because she's either scum or a bad scum hunter.

Which do you think is more possible? I think it's the latter.

[notreallygood]

In other news, I could see runner or Elyse as scum separately, but not together. In my experience scum distance early wayyyyy more often than they link. FeelIt, I agree that there's info to be gained on teams this early, but its usually better saved until later in the game.

So you agree with me that one of them could be scum, but not both of them.

[notreallygood]

heres something for you guys.. i think titus is scum but he doesnt take top spot anymore.

Meantime Paperscraps and notreallygood is on my scumdar (I GOT THE NEW MODEL IT COMES WITH SOLITARE)

feel it is eeeeeehhhh just on...

also DJ is town cuz REASOOOOOOOOONNNNSSSS AND MOONBEAAAAAAAAMS

heres my top read after all that.

VOTE: yesireebob

THERE IS NO REASON

FOR THAT LEVEL OF CHEEK

IF YOU ARE TOWN.

OUT

What?

[notreallygood]

Oh so NOW it's acceptable to ask Kcda questions about his posts.

That was just a joke.

I'm not worried about people following my vote but at the same time I don't want to plop my vote down on someone no one else thinks is scummy. That's a waste.

You don't have to take notice of what others think. If you insist on a vote and have enough reasons to support your theory, the worst response you can receive from others is that they disagree with you. However, if you vote on someone, saying he's scum, then suddenly unvote just because "no one else thinks he's scummy", this kind of behaviour is extremely unnecessary and scummy.

[notreallygood]

@Elyse
Fine. The choice is yours.

[notreallygood]

Hold up.

@notreallygood
You're criticizing me for changing my vote WHEN YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR ANYONE. Lol who do you even think is scum? Seriously wtf is this?

Three things:
1. I'm not voting because I need a good reason to do so.
2. Isn't this statement a tu quoque?
3. Watch that language.

[notreallygood]

3. Watch that language.

What?

She was impolite.

[notreallygood]

3. Watch that language.

What?

She was impolite.

[notreallygood]

Wait, why did I post twice? Sorry about that.

[notreallygood]

I've got two possible scum in my mind currently: Kcda and don.

Kcda: None of his posts makes sense. He first voted on sthar and encouraged don to get on the wagon, then voted Titus because of his ISO but did not explain exactly where it was scummy, and then he suspected Paper without explanation. Finally, he trusted don was town and voted yessiree, and again, did not explain why.

don: His first two votes didn't make sense. After a while, he listened to kcda and voted sthar. When people started to suspect him, he exaggerated his innocence.

Also, I laughed at what don had posted recently. 'Alliance'? 'Lynch pool'? What sorcery is this?

[notreallygood]

@don
1. Do all those players you invite into the alliance even want to be in there?

2. I don't think it's good to form an alliance on day 1, because some players in the team will appeal to majority and end up with a mislynch. Those players may have got an idea on who's scum, and they may be correct, but they're forced to go with the majority. This will greatly affect their thoughts and the performance of the town.

3. Why would you explain the mechanics of your strategy? The scum knows how to overcome it now.

[notreallygood]

@Beast, I agree. I hate policy lynching.

I hate policy lynch too. I've had that experience.

[notreallygood]

The T S O lynch feels like a policy lynch which I am not ok with. TSO might actually be useful in reading later on in the game. I do not and will not support a TSO lynch unless someone gives me a none policy reason.

Not a policy lynch

. His "boredom" is likely indicative of a desire to get to the night phase ASAP. He's overly concerned with his own appearance, and not scumhunting. His random vote is still in place on page 15. He's spot on his scum meta.

I don't know what else you guys want from a day 1 wagon. I put TSO's odds of flipping scum at about 70%, plus he's uncooperative so we're not losing anything from later days.

1. Are you sure he isn't getting tired of playing this game?

2. Why 70%?

Those are some weak ass reads

At least it's better than mine, eh?

[notreallygood]

In the beginning of the game his play was defined by one thing: sideline comments. He never engaged, he was a spectator not threading on any toes. He commented on things going on, yes, but never substantially.

I thought it was better not to engage at that point because sthar and beast were arguing. Joining the argument would only make them even angrier.

1. there"s no read on Don. This is a possible associative tell. Everyone else there's a read on, be it scum, town or null. In Don's case he just mentions an agreement on a certain particularity, but no read.

If there's no read, then it's null. Don wasn't paying much attention at that point of the game, so I didn't suspect him too much.

2. He considers sthar scum, but he phrases it this way: "I hate to say this, but sthar is scum" (paraphrased). Why add the part "I hate to say this"? It feels very off to me. If as town you truly consider sthar scum, there's no reason to hate saying it. Hating to say something means you're not comfortable in saying it, and if you're not comfortable in calling someone scum, I guess it means you somehow know they're not scum. And how would you know? And why would you still say it then?

Experience. I could foresee that sthar might have a plan. Also, I didn't say he's scum, I said he's the most

scummy

one. That means judging on the situation at that point, sthar was the only one who got the most suspicion. I added the part "I hate to say this" because even though he might seem scummy, I didn't think he was really scum. According to my experience, the one who is the most suspicious at the early points of the game is most likely not the scum.

Like Elyse has said, his 125 and 126 are remarkable as well. It's where he calls on sthar not to be a cunt. For starters, I don't think sthar was being a cunt. Second, I generally don't like people briging up policy lynches, but definitely not in this game. I've only reached page 7 and I see enormous content. Why then bring up policy lynches? It seems fabricated to do so.

He admitted that himself. And when did I say I liked policy lynch? I hate it. What I meant is, some people (

excluding

me) may encourage policy lynch.
I personally dislike it because I've had some experiences where I was town and someone made a policy lynch on me.

he blindly takes over the idea that it is important to wait for MPaperscraps reply. Even though sthar8 knew the reasons why it was important to do so, he didn't. There's no way he could know in my eyes. Hence this looks like the blatant sheeping of obvtown sthar8.
I found the reaction to sthar's exposé in 150 unnaturally aloof. sthar's 148 deserved more than that. Looks like scum trying to play down what is happening.

Again, experience.

And his reply to Elyse's catch-up post is also quite bad, as he mainly addresses things pertaining to himself in post 167, which I find scummy to begin with. I know what argument is going to come up next, but in that post I see a notreallygood who is so caught up with how he is being percieved that he not only selects the pieces that are about him, he for some reason feels it necessary to add some inconsequential defence of Feel It's post 74. Why single out that post by someone else to valiantly defend it? Just feels wrong.

It was my duty. I could sense that Feel It had done nothing wrong, but Elyse kept commenting how his reads were half-assed and scummy. I couldn't let someone I trusted got insulted. I had to defend him, no matter how 'wrong' people might feel.

I thought Kcda looked townish after that, and Feel It didn't.

Why...why? Why do you both (Elyse and you) think that Kcda is town while Feel It is scummy? I think Feel It at least has got more solid reads than Kcda.

Got the most notes on him. Already rubbed me the wrong me starting from his very first post, where he showed clear intent to become some sort of townleader. I was wondering whether he was over-enthousiastic town or self-overestimating scum, and I'm pretty much settled on the latter. He's obviously very smart and sensible, but that's exactly what's giving him away. His posts all feel so terribly calculated. He knows just what to say, he has rational explanations for everything, but it just doesn't feel real.

His 65 sounds unnaturally perfect. He tries to portray how reasonable he is by showing a willingness to change his vote if sthar changes his ways. Also his call for seriousness sounds incredibly forced. Bah!

Where is it "unnaturally perfect"? I've said similar things in post 127, only in a calmer tone. So my post is "unnaturally perfect" too?

@Elyse
Well, hurry up and lynch me now. Isn't that what you want?

[notreallygood]

p-edit: I feel like you are saying anything to get a lynch on someone who isn't you.

Who is this "you"?

[notreallygood]

I think we should be lynching between beast and notreallygood.

Paperscraps isn't a bad lynch though. Nothing from that slot has seemed town to me.

P-edit: It takes more than two people to lynch someone.

Hurry up and vote me now then.



Oh, and a few grammar mistakes on post 399.

Also, I didn't say he's scum, I said he's the most scummy one.

"Is" should be "was".

[notreallygood]

@Don
1. You invited runnerman into your alliance, then you immediately encouraged people to vote him. What is this? I know you've told us scum may exist in the alliance, but that's way too fast. Why did you invite him at the first place?

2. Only runnerman and paper are in your lynch pool now? What happened? You've abandoned your plan so fast?

3. In 356, Your answer to my second question is irrelevant. I said that people in the alliance might appeal to majority, and you told me scum would have nowhere to hide? What?

[notreallygood]

Don, didn't you say the alliance was the best strategy and it had never failed you?

[notreallygood]

Grammar mistakes are irrelevant.

Why are you asking people to vote you! Do you feel that players suspecting you ATM are scum?

1. Grammar is very important. Improper grammar can cause misunderstanding.

2. Because that's what Elyse desires. I want to fulfill her wish.

[notreallygood]

You never know...

[notreallygood]

Don, didn't you say the alliance was the best strategy and it had never failed you?

that is what I said. its my opinion that it is a really good strategy and that scum will usually fight against it. especially scum on the outside of the alliance. general skepticism is to be expected from any player who has not experienced a game with an alliance, but scum generally flat out refuse that sort of shenanigans. townies generally at least see the possible merit. but whatevz. I guess i'll read.

Don, you still haven't answered my question. What I mean is:

dj, you refused to link me to any game this strategy worked and then you complain when no-one goes for it.

TSO has said exactly what I've been asking. Don, I'm questioning the usefulness of the alliance, not the theory behind it. How could you say this was the best strategy when no one goes for it?

[notreallygood]

His posts all feel so terribly calculated. He knows just what to say, he has rational explanations for everything, but it just doesn't feel real.

So, would his posts feel real if he had a few irrational explanations? If not, then your scumread may be a "Too Townie" argument.

I'll be back later to start on page 8.

Uh...I recommend you to finish reading all pages before posting because you'll have the most updated analysis. You're welcome to exercise your fingers, though.

[notreallygood]

so in case you were wondering, this will be my lynch pool:

yessiree1
Titus
Paperscraps
Feel It
notreallygood
T S O

maybe we should be lynching between runnerman and paperscraps.

also, i'd compromise on a beast or paperscraps lynch at this time. maybe runnerman. elyse would be a long shot.

You've changed your mind a lot in merely three days.

[notreallygood]

as of post 167, Kc had like 3-4 posts with anything that could be remotely associated with content. yet in post 167 notreallygood states:

2. I don't understand EVERYTHING that Kcda has posted. I can't just ask him 'What do you mean in this post? What do you mean in that post? What do you mean...', right?

If it were just a few posts

that I don't understand, I'd surely ask him.

I bolded the important part. it was only just a few posts and yet he didn't ask him.

Do you know what "were" in this sentence means? "Were" is used to express

Fantasized result or action according to an unreal (untrue) condition in the present

Structure:

If + simple past tense

, ...

would/should/might/could

etc. ...

e.g. If I

were

rich, I

would

buy a new car.

In this statement,

If it

were

just a few posts I don't understand, I

'd

surely ask him.

Meaning: I don't understand everything Kcda has posted, and therefore I won't ask him because of the disrespect.

Besides, the fact that you understand his posts doesn't mean I also do.

[notreallygood]

I found the tone he was using against Elyse unnatural. Showing confidence, a pinch of disdain even, but at the same time oversensitivity over so-called "subjective and discouteous" remarks, bringing the argument to a plane where it does not belong: the emotional one. Also by using little snarks like "you may not be able to understand that", he shows intent to play it dirty with Elyse, and I found that uncalled for.

I can't accept anyone using strong language when scumhunting. Also, what else can I say except for "you may not be able to understand that"? It's related to personal experience, and I cannot explain it to her.

He's also dragging in Feel It in his defense in the second to last paragraph, as to somehow discredit Elyse's case on himself by showing where Elyse's case on Feel It fails.

I trusted Feel It. That's all.

I also did not like his 214, and there I saw a link with don_johnson. Here's why: Smudger mistakingly linked notreallygood with the statement: "Don is scummy." (in post 188) I had noticed that mistake and was wondering how people involved would react. As I said before, notreallygood made no such statement in his reads list, but only mentioned a disagreement he had with don_johnson, without adding any read. This reply, he's again avoiding to give a read on don_johnson. Instead of giving or clarifying his read on don_johnson, he answers to this confusion by giving his read on sthar. I found that very odd, and took it as an associative tell between notreallygood and don johnson.

That reads list is outdated. I hadn't been paying attention to don's posts until he announced to form the so-called "alliance", which raised my attention.

255 felt like an enormous stretch. How on earth could runnerman be using Elyse? Elyse came up with her read on runnerman without any direct manipulation by the latter. The townread on runnerman by Elyse came first. That runnerman can use it to his advantage goes without saying, but implying Elyse's townread of runnerman is part of a scheme runnerman was running is just too farfetched. notreallygood looks levelheaded enough, so I wonder what his motivations were to actively try to come up with such a farfetched idea.

I was encouraging sthar and beast to compare the possibility of different situations. Of course, it was proven later that my theory was not possible.

I'm not worried about people following my vote but at the same time I don't want to plop my vote down on someone no one else thinks is scummy. That's a waste.

You don't have to take notice of what others think. If you insist on a vote and have enough reasons to support your theory, the worst response you can receive from others is that they disagree with you. However, if you vote on someone, saying he's scum, then suddenly unvote just because "no one else thinks he's scummy", this kind of behaviour is extremely unnecessary and scummy.

Why have you not made this argument against beastcharziard after his vote on runnerman in 451?

So I'm to focus on everything happening in this game?

RE: 399

Experience. I could foresee that sthar might have a plan. Also, I didn't say he's scum, I said he's the most scummy one. That means judging on the situation at that point, sthar was the only one who got the most suspicion. I added the part "I hate to say this" because even though he might seem scummy, I didn't think he was really scum. According to my experience, the one who is the most suspicious at the early points of the game is most likely not the scum.

Calling someone scummy even though you don't think he's scum is just weird, no matter how much you try to stretch the meaning of the word and how strong its intensity is. This sounds like a very awkard explanation.

I never said you liked policy lynches. I simply stated you are the one who brought them up. You introduced the concept into this topic, and I feel it was unwarranted. sthar's cuntishness was not of that order that he would get policy lynched over it, making your adivce to him not to be a cunt for his own sake feel unnatural because of the lack of necessity.

The Feel It thing boils down to the same where you dragged in Feel It in 185, and also feels like what you're doing in this post as well when mentioning you sound as "unaturally perfect" as beastcharizard. You look too intent too draw parallels betweenc ases of other players and yourself. Why do you keep doing that?

As I've said, I'll defend whoever I could, and would.

[notreallygood]

Singular "they" has been proposed (and is often used) as a grammatically correct pronoun when referring to a person of indeterminate gender. I think it's called the epicene they when used like that, but I can't be bothered to look it up. The confusion is arising here because charizard is not noting his antecedents, which would solve the whole issue.

Yes, it's called epicene. You may also use "he or she" if you don't mind the wordiness.

I am interested in anything people say, I think most are still focused on your group strategy theory and thus somewhat blinkered to anything else you may say.

Agreed.

so what, its part of the game to change your mind and opinions on others is it not?

Yes, but not rapidly.

Anyone has any thoughts on notreallygood's 542? The defense doesn't really seem to go to the bottom of things, addresses some superficial remarks, but I have to say it has in no way managed to alleviate my suspicions of notreallygood. Where they were a bit fading, they are now in the forefront of my mind again.

I'm glad you can insist your opinions. Very few Mafia players I've acquainted are able to do that.

[notreallygood]

VOTE: notreallygood

I think I prefer this lynch actually

Why?

[notreallygood]

because he and titus are scumbuddies. that's why.

You mean Feel It?


@Feel It
You said in posts 182, 184 and 413 that I was town. And now you vote me? What is this? I can accept Grim's vote because he's got his reasons, but you haven't explained.

[notreallygood]

I don't do anything normal. The worst thing that happens is the scum shoot me. If they let me live, or I am healed, I can tell whether beast is telling the truth. If, in the rare event, y'all lynch me, you'll have confirmed resolution as to beast's tracker claim.

How do you know that's the worst thing that could happen? And how could you tell beast's claim is true just because they let you live or you're healed? The tracker may not track you, and the doctor (if there's one) may not heal you etc. There are just too many possibilities.

[notreallygood]

It looks like there isn't much to do now except for lynching someone today or simply waiting for N1.

From what I see, it's very likely that there are more than one or two scum. If one of them is lynched successfully, it'll be a great advantage for the town. The most suspected ones now are myself, paper and don. Even if D1 ends up with a mislynch, the town still has 50% (or better, 100%) chance of successful lynch on the next day.

Or, we could wait for N1 and have beast (if his claim is true) use his ability on the most suspected ones. The result may be:
-That player is the scum using his ability (25%)
-That player is a power role other than scum using his ability (25%)
-No result because that player has no night ability or doesn't want to use it (50%)

The third one is 50% because it's more likely that the scum won't use their ability so as to avoid being tracked.

Which method do you prefer?

[notreallygood]

WTF was that post? Percentages like 25 and 50 don't mean a thing here, they are useless. The only percentages that are useful are 0 and 100%.

So that means you want to lynch today.

[notreallygood]

@Everyone
I just want to know if it turns out that I'm not the scum, who would be your next target? What is your next strategy?

[notreallygood]

What if I'm NOT? You'll have to have a new plan then.

[notreallygood]

@Everyone
I just want to know if it turns out that I'm not the scum, who would be your next target? What is your next strategy?

"'if it turns out I'm not scum". What kind of player talks like this? You should know you are town right? A bit ironic for some one who is critical of grammar and proper English. (jab jab)

What's wrong with that?

[notreallygood]

The "if" bothers me. Well first off I wouldn't be trying to defend myself the way you are in general, but I would have phrased what you said "when" I flip town, what are you going to do about it? You are essentially talking in the mindset of you yourself believing you aren't 100% town and that bothers me.

I'm asking the question from the perspective of some of the people who vote me. They think I'm DEFINITELY scum and there is no room for doubt. Therefore, I ask them:

What if your assumption is wrong and I flip town? What would you do? Who would be your next lynch target?

I don't mind getting lynched. I just want to know what you will do when that happens.

[notreallygood]

@don
There are something unnatural about Titus.

1. They've been viewing you as scum since post 180. They keep encouraging others to vote you.
2. They had said that Elyse was town, but they didn't know why she voted me in post 633.
3. Why would they hammer me if they don't think I'm scummy?
4. They volunteer to be tracked by the tracker (if beast's claim is true).

However, like you've said, I don't think scum would be that obvious. I'll consider a little bit about the wagon.

[notreallygood]

There are something unnatural about Titus.

There are some things

[notreallygood]

Why should I vote?

[notreallygood]

@Grim & Paper
Answer my question:

What if your assumption is wrong and I flip town? What would you do? Who would be your next lynch target?

You may think I'm playing around, but I'm not.

Answer this question

.

[notreallygood]

I'll explain my motivation now.

In the early part of the game, I just played naturally. I tended not to get in arguments because my role could be important for the town.

It was until brjl got replaced that I was forced into arguing with Elyse. I had to make a decision: Do I explain my posts to her, or do I stay away from her first? Neither was good, but I decided the latter was better because I doubted she would listen even if I explained.

Then Grim stepped in. He agreed with Elyse that I looked scummy, which forced me to make explanations regarding my posts. However, as you all can see, his analysis was so rational. How could I explain it clearly? So I could only tried to stay away again.

Sometime later, beast claimed that he was a tracker. I thought I could cooperate with him, since my role can greatly aid him, but this was also the time when people started to vote me. I had a feeling that the town would lose important support if I got lynched. As a result, I've asked this question:

What if your assumption is wrong and I flip town? What would you do? Who would be your next lynch target?

This is a very important question. I'm not only hinting that I'm not scum, but also preparing for the night. You give me your lynch pool now, and I can tell you some useful information about them. Even if I get killed in the night, you can deduce that the scum is in your lynch pool, and beast will still be able to use his ability in the next night. But, if you lynch me now, then beast is very likely to get killed in the night, and thus the town will lose two helpers in one night, which, I fear, will highly weaken the town.

My role is also the reason why I don't need to give out reads and votes too often.

So do you want me to claim now?

[notreallygood]

I could only tried

I could only

try

[notreallygood]

So you want me to claim?

[notreallygood]

Well, I've got your lynch pool now, I can investigate those people in the night and tell you the results after that.

I'm a gunsmith. Do you think this role will help you?

[notreallygood]

Also, if you're speaking the truth, you can only check 1 person during the night, you can not investigate "those people".

And if you die we know nothing about the people in my lynchpool. We'll only know that you died. What was your reasoning behind saying that we would know our lynchpool contains scum if you die?

1. Well, I wish I were a cop, but I think a gunsmith is close enough.

2. A scum would fear getting checked, so they would kill me as soon as possible. I'll only check the people in your lynch pool, so I doubt people outside that pool, even if he/she is scum, would choose to kill me.

[notreallygood]

we lynch don today. TSO would be fine as well.

Oh, now you vote don?

1. Cops also only get to investigate one person per night.

2. WIFOM. That line of thinking will get you nowhere. Assuming, for an ever so short moment that both PR claims that we've seen today are truthful, either you or beastcharizard will die during N1, no matter what action you're planning to do.

1. Well, if the doctor (if there's one) can protect me, then I'll be able to survive several nights.

2. If one of us dies in night 1, the other one still can, although more difficult, find out the scum using his ability. Besides, there may be a doctor here.

[notreallygood]

Gunsmith, for balance reasons, only makes sense if there's also a town PR that has a gun. That means at least 3 town-PR's, and in my view, also at most 3 twon PR's for balance reasons: a gun-owning townie, Gunsmith and Town Tracker.

Now, I can somehow believe that there are 3 town PR's in a 13-player game, but for us to out two of them on Day 1? Really?

1. Scum have guns too, don't they?

2. That means beast is probably lying.

[notreallygood]

Why didn't you express your disbelief in him right after he claimed?

I also just read on the Wiki that Gunsmiths can also be mafia-aligned. When I said I found notreallygood's claim believable enough it was mainly because I wouldn't consider it a role someone would come up with out of the blue when fakeclaiming. But maybe notreallygood is really a gunsmith, just not one on our side?

1. Anybody who claims is probably lying, so there's no point to express disbelief.

2. The Wiki says:

- Gunsmiths are usually, but not necessarily, pro-Town.
- They are usually included in setups where they can get positive results on players who are not Mafia-aligned. (which means town may also have guns)

If you can accept there may be a townie who has a gun, why can't you accept I'm town?

I'm a Town Gunsmith. I give you my words, Grim. What will it take to convince you?

[notreallygood]

I give you my words

I give you my

word

[notreallygood]

Btw titus is trying to get me lynched in all the games she is in with me. In another game I actually got lynched (I was a villager duh) so please take in mind that for some weird reason she has it in for me.

All the games? She's only been with you in one game (excluding this). And why would she do that?

[notreallygood]

Hey NRG why did you say you were ok with being lynched?

Because I thought I was a total failure at this game. Nobody trusted me.

[notreallygood]

Now, the unconfirmed claim of NRG, there was no pressure to claim, he was not at L-1 and yet claimed as Grim persisted with his case. Obviously This leads me to think 1. he is inexperienced town and began to panic really way too early or 2. he is scum with a fake claim to shift Grims attention away from him. Now I do not think for one moment that NRG is inexperienced in a way that he would panic and claim, so why claim? I also would like to say that I am still not fully convinced on either claim, and, has anyone noticed a slow down of Activity from Beast since the claim?

I would've claimed cop or doctor instead of gunsmith if I wanted to fakeclaim. I don't know about beast, but I hope his claim is true.

[notreallygood]

I confirm but wtf is v/la?

Welcome to our game, RationalMadman.

V/LA means Vacation/Limited Access.

@everyone else: Do you think runnerman is the best lynch today?

[notreallygood]

@everyone else: Do you think runnerman is the best lynch today?

no

What if someone deliberately hammers him?

[notreallygood]

Hey guys, we actually have a deadline now so we need to come to a consensus on a lynch. I don't feel like Feel It is a good lynch for today.

Actually, I've found it surprising that I'm still uncertain about whom to lynch. I've never faced such a problem before.

It's probably because I begin to realise Mafia is just like real life. Every decision is a hard decision.

Oh, what's happening to me?

[notreallygood]

wtf is this? The deadline is frozen again! This makes me very sad.

Now that we are back to frozen deadline I am extra curious for Grim to answer my question. We once again have time to switch who we vote off for the day. We realistically have 6 days to change.

I am still for a runnerman lynch. His general scumminess this game is over whelming.

This is how life is. When you naively think a traffic congestion is finally clear, you're going to be stuck in a bigger jam.

I know I'm being overly dramatic, but this is what happens when the deadline keeps frozen and people get replaced again and again. Your mind gets delirious.

Sorry, I have to calm down for a bit.

[notreallygood]

V/LA until Friday.

I need some rest.

[notreallygood]

;D

Final reads are Titus as Town, Sthar as Town, Beast as Town, nrg as piggybacking scum, runnerman as scum, rest of you as I-don't-give-a-fuck.

sthar is obvtown.

T S O is SCUMMYSCUMSCUM

Titus is awesome and she's also nulltown.

Elyse is so obvtown, I shouldn't have to explain why.

beastcharizard is town.

Grimgroove is town.

NRG is town

runnerman is scummy. I want him lynched simply so the mod doesn't have to find a replacement anymore.

Paperscraps is nulltown.

Smudger is null.

Feel It....I dunno. Null.

don_johnson is awesome but lately I'm getting red flags from his posts.

I play with my gut, mostly, but that doesn't mean I won't listen to logic.

My gut says to

Vote: T S O

because he isn't even countering sthar's case on him.

horrible read list btw

Compare it with yours. Which one is more horrible?

@Everyone: We'll wait for Huntress' post. After that, we shall discuss whether to lynch someone or not. Also, have you got any ideas whom I should check in the night?

[notreallygood]

@TSO Do you want to claim?

[notreallygood]

^^ scum.

titus: what do you think of bowser?

unvote, vote bowser

...What are you doing? Why are you voting bowser all the sudden? Don't tell me you vote him just because he's V/LA. And why are you asking Titus ONLY?

.....obviously not.

VOTE: TSO

you are L-1 again,

You know putting someone on L-1 is no laughing matter... right?

VOTE: TSO

Enough is enough!

Did you do that for dramatic effect?

I definitely didn't like her volunteering to be tracked as this could be an attempt to deflect a PR from her scumbuddies.

There are three possibilities:
1. She wants to waste the Tracker's ability to help her scumbuddies. (assume she's scum)
2. She wants to fool the Tracker into believing she's town by not killing anyone in the night. (assume she's scum)
3. She wants to prove that she's town. (assume she's town)

Yet, I still don't understand why she needs to volunteer to be tracked. There are various other ways to do these things.

I was also looking as Beast as my first impression there said scum...

I suggest leaving beast alone for now. Lynching a potential PR on day 1 isn't a bright idea.

Up until Don wrote this I had no problem with him, apart from the early lurking which is as likely to be from town as scum (so was just bad, not scummy), but to suggest people are scummy for having a negative reaction to a plan they don't like is scummy in itself. My view of town blocs may be coloured by the fact that the first one I experienced was instigated by scum, but even if town-led they are unfun for those townies on the outside who feel excluded and can lead to lack of interest in the game.

Agreed. When I first saw his plan of forming an alliance, I was like



@don: I don't think anyone's going to vote bowser for now. You had been voting TSO for a while, and you had even demanded a hammer, so why did you suddenly shift your vote?

[notreallygood]

People, we'd better not argue with each other now. The deadline is nigh.

[notreallygood]

Bowser is the one replacing Kcdaspot, and Kcda was on my top scum list. Besides, we're extremely close to deadline now. My only choice is to trust don's scumread on bowser.

VOTE: Bowser

That'll put him on L-2

@Huntress: My top reads are bowser and Feel It. I'll explain on day 2 (if I manage to survive). No time to waste now.

[notreallygood]

That'll put him on L-2

Oh wait, that's L-3.

@Grim
Come on, vote bowser. From what I see, he's more likely to be scum. I mean, TSO has passed the fakehammer test, and I've got a null read on him. We need to lynch someone. We have to. We must.

Grim, let's bet: If you insist your vote on TSO, we'll see whose vote is smarter - yours or mine.

[notreallygood]

Fine. It's your choice. I'm not the one to judge.

[notreallygood]

No. I haven't commented on your arguments because I've got no time to waste.

Being friends doesn't mean I have to follow everything you do.

You call that a plan? When you see L-3 on both wagon you know that isn't a very good plan.

No time for joking around, Grim.

Look, I'll plan my next move with you on day 2, OK? For now, I must trust don and vote bowser.

See you.

[notreallygood]

@Elyse
Feel It is town. I checked him, and he

doesn't have a gun

.

This also means Feel It is no longer on my scum list. I thought he was scum because his posts have been very unnatural after I claimed.

For example,

We've pushed out 2 power roles already? Possible, one claim may well be fishy though. I like your new avatar noteallygood. I'd like you to investigate ether Titus, Elyse or Paperscraps and we lynch don today. TSO would be fine as well.

I seriously don't understand this post. It's my freedom to choose whom to check, not you. And why must I check these people?

But anyway, it's been confirmed that he's town, so I'm going to assume the purpose of that post was to simply tell me what to do.

@Everyone
Now that TSO and Feel It have been proven innocent, can we vote bowser?

[notreallygood]

People, I think bowser is more likely to be scum. However, Titus' posts sound like she can hinder the night abilities of Beast and me, which is a larger obstacle.

@Paper
The don kill was probably due to his urgent wish to lynch bowser. My guess is that the scum team didn't want him to investigate bowser any further, so one of them killed him. Besides, don's been confirmed town, so his vote on bowser is very reasonable. On top of that, bowser has always been on my top scum list. All these indicate he's extremely likely to be scum.

Nonetheless, I'll still wait for Titus' claim before voting bowser.

[notreallygood]

You people should've trusted don and lynched bowser.
VOTE: Bowser

[notreallygood]

Necromancy is a shitty reason for a lynch, especially necromancy on someone like don. If you think Bowser's the play, tell me why.

I've told you my reasons:

The don kill was probably due to his urgent wish to lynch bowser. My guess is that the scum team didn't want him to investigate bowser any further, so one of them killed him. Besides, don's been confirmed town, so his vote on bowser is very reasonable. On top of that, bowser has always been on my top scum list. All these indicate he's extremely likely to be scum.

Also, this isn't necromancy. Don's assumption was really logical, but most of you didn't listen to him and decided to vote TSO.

[notreallygood]

guys I think I'm a wizard. I will refuse to answer unless I am addressed as THE SUMMONER from now on. Caps included.

[notreallygood]

I am a 1 shot vig or a joat with a heal which I will use on NRG.

Thanks.

[notreallygood]

Sorry, Bowser, Kcda pretty much sold you out. His posts had been outrageously scummy before getting replaced by you, and there's simply nothing you can do to change my mind on you.

@Everyone
Vote Bowser. Lynch the obvious scum first.

[notreallygood]

Good job, guys. This day is going to end soon.
Get ready to track, Beast.

[notreallygood]

Attention. Smudger

has

a gun.

From now on, I'll post a list of the people I've checked so that you guys can organise your thoughts more easily.

Spoiler: Results

N1

Feel It

does not have a gun

N2

Smudger

has a gun

[notreallygood]

Attention. Smudger

has

a gun.

From now on, I'll post a list of the people I've checked so that you guys can organise your thoughts more easily.

Spoiler: Results

N1

Feel It

does not have a gun

N2

Smudger

has a gun

ummm I don't?

You do. You do have a gun.

[notreallygood]

Claim your role then.

[notreallygood]

I don't quite believe you.
1. Your result shows that you've really got a gun.
2. Bulletproof townie is a very scummy role to claim.

Or, maybe bulletproof counts as having a gun? Does anyone have any ideas?

[notreallygood]

Sorry, Smudger. Facts speak louder than words. You have a gun. That's the fact.
VOTE: Smudger

[notreallygood]

On second thought, I think we should find out the other scum before lynching Smudger, as I think there could be, albeit unlikely, a scum PR that can alter our results and hinder our journey to victory. We find him/her out, and we double our chance of winning.

UNVOTE

FOS: Smudger

[notreallygood]

Looks like we need a massclaim. Do you guys want to do it?

[notreallygood]

Not-smudgers- We don't need to be looking for #3 right now. If NRG is somehow wrong about smudger (which is doubtful considering how scummy he has been for the last two days), then we need that information to find the remaining scum.

The result COULD be wrong due to certain PRs, despite the unlikeliness. Are you guys sure that Smudger is to be the lynch today?

I guess it's technically possible that we are witnessing the worst mafia rb or rd who has completely screwed up their role up till now, but that is incredibly unlikely.

Always prepare for the worst, sthar. Always prepare for the worst.

[notreallygood]

VOTE: Smudger

Not only have you got confidence, but you've also convinced me totally. Whether you're town or not, you're one skilled player.

Sthar point to exactly where I am being scummy and back that up with some proof please, an explanation as to how what I have said is in anyway scummy? because if you can't then you are not convincing are in fact trying to manipulate the vote and are talking complete rubbish.

The burden of proof is on you, Smudger. My result shows you've got a gun, so it should be you who are to explain yourself: why do you have a gun?

Besides, facts always come before explanation. The fact that you've got a gun is a very scummy thing itself, notwithstanding the chance that a PR may vary the result and any excuses you may make afterwards. Sorry, but so unlikely is the doubt that we can't even give you the benefit of it.

VOTE: Smudger

[notreallygood]

Alright, Beast. Get ready to track your next target.

There should be only one or two scum left, and I've already got some ideas in my mind.

[notreallygood]

That was a nice game, everyone.

For the scum, I think you people should've killed beast or me as soon as possible, because we were the most likely ones to be PRs. The kill in N3 was kind of late, as beast and I had already helped the town lynch two scum. Even without our support, the town still could find out the remaining scum sooner or later.

Anyway, you've all done your best, and I appreciate it. I'm glad that I could assist the town. Thanks for trusting beast and me. We've all had a fantastic time.

[notreallygood]

Thank you all. I wish you all the best.