Mini 1483: Finagling of Flitter Hills

[Paperscraps]

/Confirmed

[Paperscraps]

Have any of you played together before?
How many games have you played on this site?
What is your win ratio?
Why shouldn't I lynch you?

I haven't played with anyone on here before.
This is my first game on this site.
N/A.
Because I am town.

I was thinking everyone should self-vote today and give me hammer, then I will vote the mafia. This is a win-win opportunity everyone, take advantage!

[Paperscraps]

Have you played in Meat World or other sites then?

I have played a few games on TeamLiquid and of course with groups of friends IRL.

Also you guys are doing it wrong, you are supposed to self-vote today and give me hammer.

[Paperscraps]

VOTE: sthar8

Serious vote.

[Paperscraps]

@paper: the question that beast posed sthar i now pose to you:

Assuming you are actually serious are you going to state why or just sit there looking scummy?

Paperscraps- was your vote a retaliation on sthar8 voting KCD or was there different reasoning to it?

My vote was to mock sthar8 and gauge reactions. When I first voted sthar8 it was more to get him to realize that what he was doing was not very town. You can't just vote people, and refuse to give some sort of reason for it. I don't know, maybe he is just trying to bait reactions as well? I will let my vote sit on sthar8. I am curious to hear about this logic he is keeping from us. Information is key in this game and him keeping anything hidden is suspicious to me.

[Paperscraps]

When I first voted sthar8 it was more to get him to realize that what he was doing was not very town.

How?

Well obviously it didn't work or you are acting dumb, both seem plausible at this moment.

You can't just vote people, and refuse to give some sort of reason for it.

Nonsense. Can and did. Unless you're trying to hurt KCDA's feelings by implying that he's not "people."

Maybe I should have phrased that better. Silent voting is going to be seen as scummy.

I am curious to hear about this logic he is keeping from us.

No

This really just proves my initial point further.

him keeping anything hidden is suspicious to me.

Why?

I have already explained this in my previous post.

sthar8 you obviously like being the center of attention. I have responded to your post in which really didn't need a response. So lets move this discussion along. It being centered around you isn't helping us regardless of your alignment.

[Paperscraps]

@notreallygood
Besides this site, how experienced with playing mafia are you?

@beastcharizard
Would you mind elaborating on your scum read on don_johnston?

@don_johnston
Give me one of your initial town read and initial scum read.

[Paperscraps]

UNVOTE:

Some good stuff has happened since I last posted.

I am really digging

sthar8

's recent posts. His reads are pretty solid. All of the forethought and explanations for his actions have been sound. My view has shifted pretty drastically from null leaning scum to

TOWN

. I really appreciate him bringing some life to this day 1.

Now enough butt kissing. Let's get into the meat of this. I have approached these reads from a new lens with sthar8 as town.

Spoiler:

1. Smudger

NULL

Has promised to be active and post, still hasn't delivered.

2. yessirree

Leaning TOWN

Confident, witty repartee, decent reads. I would like to yessiree to expand on his read on Titus a bit.

3. beastcharizard

NULL/

Leaning SCUM

Asking a lot of questions even after RVS. Seems "to be motivated by logic". Has been slightly defensive. sthar8 put him in that position on purpose. His read on Don is the same as mine. I am curious as what beast will have to say after the recent developments.

4. Kcdaspot

NULL

Somewhat of an enigma so far. Hasn't really posted enough yet to get a solid read. Nothing of substance from him.

5. don_johnston

NULL

Has done nothing of value. I would like to hear more from Mr. johnston.

6. Titus

SCUM

Has popped in and out of the thread asking questions that really don't seem to accomplish anything. I would disagree with sthar8 here. His non-committal vibe rubs me as scum and not as town.

7. Elyse

NULL

With only one post to read from I don't want to draw too much from it. I don't agree with a lot that is said. I think the push on notreallygood is bad.

8. runnerman1

NULL

runnerwho?

11. Feel It

TOWN

I CAN FEEL IT. This read is hard to put into words really. The subtleties and nuances in his post just rub me as town. This is more of a gut read than anything.

12. notreallygood

TOWN

His posts feel genuine to me. I agreed with most of his read lists. Calling him out for fence sitting is laughable. At this state of the game, if someone had super concrete reads I would be wary. This is less of a gut read than Feel It.

13. T S O

SCUM

His posts to be seemed to be forced. #110 Is a pretty big flag to me. Him scum reading notreallygood for asking for reads is not good at all. Seems to be redirecting the conversation to non-productive discussion.

VOTE: T S O

[Paperscraps]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Titus

Consolidating my vote to Titus

The scum team is T S O / Titus / BeastCharizard

[Paperscraps]

I didn't really think about that too much. If there were only 2 scum this be would be heavily town favored. Actually 4 scum wouldn't be too mafia sided, so there definitely could be 4, anymore than that would be too scum sided. I haven't really been in the mindset of there being 4 scum, but I should re-evaluate this.

[Paperscraps]

@

Kcdaspot

Why is DJ town? (Besides his obvious moonbeams of course)

I like Elyse's last few posts. She is

leaning town

for me now.

@

Elyse

What do you think of Kcdaspot? His posting style is pretty out there to say the least.

elyse: you just missed an opportunity for us to be friends. if you really want the notreallygood lynch, why not try and convince me? I've been gone a couple days. I am like clay waiting to be molded. but instead of taking the opportunity, you're all like "whatever, catch up yourself." well fine then. thanks for nothing. please don't complain that you are not getting the lynch you want if you aren't going to try when the chance jumps up and bites you in the nose.

vote: elyse

i'll start here for now. i'll post when I catch up.

LOL. This reminds of some d-bag friend that gets mad at you for calling him out on something he is in the wrong for.

[Paperscraps]

Mr. Johnston's

recent posts are hilarious. Forming a trust circle without being fully caught up in the thread is just bad. Forming a trust circle on day 1 is just funny to me in general. Especially with people who directly FoS each other in the circle itself. He seems a bit audacious to actually be scum though.

My scum read on

Titus

feels weaker now as well. He is drawing some weird conclusions, but seems to be trying to scum hunt. I can see why he wants to lynch

Runnerman

.

I wouldn't care if it was before or after. His play is scummy as shit. He and Paperscraps did chainsaws for each other. It will take a lot to get me to move my vote from these two.

I don't know why you keep associating

Runnerman

and I. 247 You can't seriously be trying to push that connection.

I don't know what to think of

Kcda

and how people are so handily town reading him. I am wary of this. He is still pretty null in my book.

Beast

has move back to null for me at this time. I don't agree with his scum read on

Elyse

. Other than that, reading through his ISO and recent posts I like what I see.

Elyse

has been congruent and logical so far. Her recent posts are on point and good. She is town

Re-reading

notreallygood's

ISO brings him back to null for me. His last few posts have gone down hill. 292 and 309 just aren't doing it for me.

Runnerman

is leaning scum for me now. Too much filler for my tastes. His vote on

Beast

is interesting though.

Feel it

is still town in my book. He has a bit of filler, but some decent posts and reads as well.

I want to see a push from

Smudger

or something. I don't know what to think of him.

Yessiree

has fell of the face of the Earth. Where you at bro?

T S O

hasn't done anything to change my opinion of him.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: T S O

Guys I just voted the same person as

sthar8

. Make sure to draw ten different conclusions from this.

[Paperscraps]

Also, you know chainsaw's not indicative without a flip, right?

In any case, I don't think paper was chainsawing. He just doesn't possess the subtlety necessary to try shifting yes back to you with his vote (no offense paper). I

am

curious about that vote switch though. @ paper- can you comment please?

I brought this up in my latest post. I don't get it all. I thought chainsawing was voting against the grain to seem town. Like say player A is being lynched, you vote player B because you know player A will flip town to seem town yourself?
What Titus is getting at is me trying to deflect attention away from a scum partner, Runnerman, by voting right after someone foses him. Which would be a pretty bad play in general. I could make the same argument against pretty much everyone else in this thread.

I've got two possible scum in my mind currently: Kcda and don.

Kcda: None of his posts makes sense. He first voted on sthar and encouraged don to get on the wagon, then voted Titus because of his ISO but did not explain exactly where it was scummy, and then he suspected Paper without explanation. Finally, he trusted don was town and voted yessiree, and again, did not explain why.

don: His first two votes didn't make sense. After a while, he listened to kcda and voted sthar. When people started to suspect him, he exaggerated his innocence.

Also, I laughed at what don had posted recently. 'Alliance'? 'Lynch pool'? What sorcery is this?

These foses seem a bit bland and elementary to me. I mean the things they are doing are scummy on a basic level, but you have to look for motivations and if scum are likely to be so obvious day 1.

[Paperscraps]

kcdaspot, elyse, beast, sthar8, runnerman.

if we form an alliance here we should be good. I am pretty sure most, if not all of us, are town. at most I could see one scum in this group. outside chance of two, but lifes not fun without a little risk. in any case, it would be a great way to start. if you agree to vote with me, I will lead us to victory. of course I will need to read the game first, but I will give us scum. we keep the alliance for today and tomorrow. if we aren't in position to win the game on day 3, i'd be ok if we dissolved, but I just don't see that happening. let's do it!

maybe we should be lynching between runnerman and paperscraps.

grim: if you have any questions for me, just lay em out.

@Dom, so runnerman went from being in the alliance to a possible lynch for you. What happened? I wouldn't feel bad about lynching runnerman at this point, but walk me through your logic here.

Also, why is everyone calling T S O a policy lynch? I don't get it. Reading through T S O's ISO again, I see pissed off town now. His reactions to all the pressure, especially in his last few post seem genuine.

UNVOTE:

Grim's post so far are delightful, his reads are good. He seems pretty objective. His cases against NRG and beast are decent.

I will do some more hunting, since my reads are getting all muddled.

[Paperscraps]

In 235, I did not understand why he switched onto Titus. His vote was on TSO, but he moves his vote away from him and onto Titus, while still saying in that same post that TSO is still in his scumteam.

Can you explain this move? Your argumentation for 1. dropping pressure from TSO and 2. increasing pressure on Titus is not clear here.

1. I believe at the time I was the only one voting T S O. So he wasn't really being pressured.
2. Voting Titus with others was to get a reaction from him and see if anyone else would wagon onto him as well.

One thing I don't like about T S O, was after we stopped the most recent pressure on him, he just disappeared. If anything he is free and clear now to actually scum-hunt and be hindered by being in a defensive position.

Also we are on page 20 and it seems like Dom is just now reading through this thread. This is weird since he has been throwing around reads like he was been caught up. I don't even know what to think of this. You can actually tell he is reading through the thread from his most recent posts, but that just striked me as odd. The whole offering the alliance without having read the entire thread thoroughly just rubs me the wrong way.

@Grim, you are a machine. I just skimmed through your most recent posts, but will read them more in-depth later today. You seem to be garnering a following around the beastcharizard lynch. I am not against it. I think beast's lynch will give us a TON of information based on his flip(on which I am leaning scum). I am not voting yet, because I want to read through the last couple of pages more in-depth.

[Paperscraps]

I am not saying the alliance is a bad idea in itself. Your way of approaching the alliance is though.

[Paperscraps]

Hey guys, I will catch up and post some more later today. I have been skimming on the whole beast lynch thing, but was hesitant to vote because of some of the people voting him(i.e Elyse and runnerman). The cases and things said against beast make sense, but doesn't necessarily lead to him being scum. On the topic of his claim, I don't like it. But we obviously aren't lynching a PR day 1. Stop grouping runnerman and I with "chainsawing". This is not a thing. With the skimming I have done, I could get behind lynching NRG or don, but I need to dig into some ISOs.

[Paperscraps]

To start off, I am going to address the votes against me. I don't have any cases against me to respond to, so I am going to be proactive here.

-

T S O

(No case against me, just voted me out of frustration or because he was taunted by Feel it. His vote on me is reactionary and not prompted by actual scum hunting. T S O seems to be a bit on tilt since his exchange with sthar.)

Would I be ok with lynching T S O today?

He still seems like angry town to me. This decision is also tentative on his future posts and if he actually makes a case against me (this would be a townie thing for him to do).

-

Don

(Reading through his ISO, he doesn't have a singular case against me, but has posted some little things here and there against me. Nothing to warrant an actual response towards. We don't see eye to eye on some things and I have called him out on some questionable plays he is trying to make. 488 this post is good and probably the best reason by him to be voting me today. The point about today being mostly a guessing game with who to lynch is very true. I am curious as to why he would be voting me when he scum reads Elyse and T S O's vote is suspicious.)

Would I be ok with lynching Don today?

No. (BUT PAPERSCRAPS YOU JUST SAID YOU WOULD BE OK WITH LYNCHING DON IN YOUR PREVIOUS POST, OMG CONTRADICTION!!! YOU ARE SCUM!!11!!) At that point in time I hadn't read through his ISO in-depth in awhile. We don't agree on a lot of things, but Don flipping scum would surprise me at this point.

-

Elyse

(Voting me on a gut read, which I don't have a problem with. Playing mafia with only logic will not win you games, you have to throw some gut into the mix to do well. I do say into the mix though and not relying completely on gut. Elyse's gut read is wrong. Two options I can see here: 1. Elyse is town and really does have a gut read on me as scum. 2. Elyse is scum and using this "gut read" to vote me without seeming too scummy and not having to actually make a case. I could see Elyse being scum. I can also see Elyse being town. I could make a case for both alignments. Without any meta I am stuck on my Elyse read until the game develops further. Her motivations won't be apparent until we see some flips.)

Would I be ok with lynching Elyse today?

No. I like her agressive style and if she is town, I believe she will be an asset in the later game. I wouldn't be ok with lynching Elyse at this time.

My town circle right now:

sthar

,

Smudger

,

Feel it

.
Who I would be against lynching but not in my town circle circle:

Grimgroove

,

beastcharizard

,

don_johnson

,

Elyse

.
Who is null to me circle:

Titus

,

T S O

.
Who I would be ok with lynching circle:

Kcda

,

runnerman

,

NRG

.

runnerman, Kcda and NRG don't really strike me as a scum team and there is possibly/probably a 4th scum. I am a bit stuck on who to vote, so many starting days end in a mis-lynch. There is plenty of material against NRG and I could hop on that, but Elyse's point about some many people being ok with it is good. Lynching runnerman or Kcda at this point is meh. Kcda is active lurking and runnerman is being replaced so that lynch would just be bad form, until his replacement gets a chance at redemption. GUYS LOOK AT ME BEING ALL INDECISIVE AND ON THE FENCE.

I am getting a bit antsy here at the end of this day as I believe a lot of everyone else is. We all want to see some blood, so we can move on and have some solid information to go from. I am not going to let it be my blood if I have my way. By the end of tonight I will vote some one and have some sort of a case made. This is where I stand right now. To be continued...

[Paperscraps]

With

runnerman

and

kcda

being replaced it seems awkward to make a case against them when they wont be able to defend themselves. Less information will be gained from lynching them than say lynching

NRG

imo.

Titus

' last few posts have been pretty poor quality, his vote on

Don

is consistent with his ISO so I don't really find that too scummy, but the tracker thing is bad.

We still have 3 days left, once the replacement process is completed which is good. I want to hear what the new

runnerman

and

kcda

will have to say.

This leaves me with voting

NRG

today and even though there isn't much opposition against it, if any, I am still good with it. Reading through his ISO, I don't see much of him trying to find and lynch scum. He has been under the lens for awhile now and defending himself. I don't see much offense though. His play is reactionary and he has regurgitated ideas and points from other players. A lot of his posts are filler where he seems to chime in and respond to stay active, but without doing anything to help town. Lecturing us on grammar and the intricacies of the English language doesn't make you pro-town. I am wary of people who get focused on silly things that have no bearing on finding mafia. His scum reads are pretty elementary and this struck me as inexperience at first, but under the pressure of others it could have been him trying to just get something out there to get the attention away from him.

So we have deflection(maybe), reactionary play(which implies no scum hunting), fixation on silly things(i.e. grammar, foul language, how2English) and general filler(to stay active and seem productive).
Singularly the above tells don't make

NRG

mafia, but as a whole they give me a decent scum vibe.

VOTE: notreallygood

[Paperscraps]

@

sthar

Are you still convinced T S O is mafia? Your vote hasn't wavered from him, so I assume yes. Tell me why he isn't upset town. Who else would you lynch today?

[Paperscraps]

@Everyone
I just want to know if it turns out that I'm not the scum, who would be your next target? What is your next strategy?

"'if it turns out I'm not scum". What kind of player talks like this? You should know you are town right? A bit ironic for some one who is critical of grammar and proper English. (jab jab)

Since the heat has turned up on NRG his last few posts have been weak. He isn't doing anything to make me second guess here.

[Paperscraps]

@Everyone
I just want to know if it turns out that I'm not the scum, who would be your next target? What is your next strategy?

@Everyone
I just want to know if it turns out that I'm not the scum, who would be your next target? What is your next strategy?

"'if it turns out I'm not scum". What kind of player talks like this? You should know you are town right? A bit ironic for some one who is critical of grammar and proper English. (jab jab)

What's wrong with that?

The "if" bothers me. Well first off I wouldn't be trying to defend myself the way you are in general, but I would have phrased what you said "when" I flip town, what are you going to do about it? You are essentially talking in the mindset of you yourself believing you aren't 100% town and that bothers me.

[Paperscraps]

UNVOTE:

Hmmm. Need to think about NRG's claim. Lynching a PR today would be stupid imo.

Titus and Feel it have both associated me with runnerman now. Feel it's push/case against me is out of context and warped. This smells of one of them indirectly bussing runnerman(maybe) by trying to associate his scuminess towards me. It is laughable that you would vote me over him at this point in any case. My ISO is leaps and bounds more townie than his.

Scenario: One person on the scum team is looking pretty bad, i.e. runnerman. Titus or Feel it being one of the other members is trying to capitalize on the situation to save their partner. So instead of voting runnerman, they vote me who is more way more towny, but with the guise that I "chainsawed" and distanced myself from runnerman. If you believe two people are scum, why would you vote the more townie of the two?

That is all hypothetical, because we don't know runnerman is actually mafia or is even being indirectly bussed. Runnerman has promised to deliver more content, yet I don't see much a change in behavior.

The shift that Feel it just made from town reading me to scum reading was too quick and a huge scum tell imo. His reasons for voting me are weak.

I am so down to lynch runnerman. If he is mafia, then one of Titus or Feel it is probably his partner. Leaning towards Feel it over Titus, the shift in Feel it's last few posts isn't town. I town read Feel it early on, but I am questioning that now. (inb4 OMGUS haha)

VOTE: runnerman

[Paperscraps]

@runnerman THERE WE GO! Finally some fire from you. Tell me who the mafia is and we can go from there.

[Paperscraps]

Btw titus is trying to get me lynched in all the games she is in with me. In another game I actually got lynched (I was a villager duh) so please take in mind that for some weird reason she has it in for me.

All the games? She's only been with you in one game (excluding this). And why would she do that?

Not on purpose. My playstyle probably looks really scummy to her.

I made an insulting post yesterday to see to what degree people just emotionally lash back, you can see the results.

Just read through NRG's iso, he says this early on "Personally, I like just playing naturally instead of using plans. That's just my style, though."
Which seems true, he's mostly being diplomatic (even complaining when people are rude) and asking questions giving small commntary. I don't like his lynch.

Paperscraps' ISO is strangely small.

I looked at beast, He plays a very open style (sharing his ideas) which means we can keep him around as he's not a threat even if he is scum. I'm still keeping an eye on him though.

TSO is a kid, in his behavior in everything, what else is there to say. He is a lynch target I have in mind but not voting him because there is nothing in particular that stands out as all that scummy so I'll wait to see more.

I still like my Titus vote. She has this obtuseness that'll make it hard to figure out if she is scum because she only sticks to very unsophisticated reads to make her decisions. It's easy to play scum with a playstyle like this.

I am not liking these reads. Your reason for voting Titus is that "her playstyle is easy to play scum as". You aren't actually saying she is mafia or that you even believe it yourself. Where is the conviction! Also explain the results you think you got from your "insulting post".

Some of your reads are filler. What does my ISO being small mean? I believe we are all keeping an eye on beastchizarf right now. Your posts seems like a list of potential lynch targets. Why are NRG or Beast even being considered?

You gave us one scum read on beast awhile back and were leaning town on Titus. Now you have shifted to Titus with the reasons she is trying to get me lynched (so she must be mafia) and her play style is advantageous for scum. Do you have any scum reads? I am not seeing any scum reads above.

[Paperscraps]

I was responding to post 728 not 729. Runnerman called my 723 BS and said "we are all dumb and suck at mafia". It was good to finally see some passion in his posts. I should have quoted to avoid confusion.

[Paperscraps]

Titus and Feel it have both associated me with runnerman now. Feel it's push/case against me is out of context and warped. This smells of one of them indirectly bussing runnerman(maybe) by trying to associate his scuminess towards me. It is laughable that you would vote me over him at this point in any case. My ISO is leaps and bounds more townie than his.

Scenario: One person on the scum team is looking pretty bad, i.e. runnerman. Titus or Feel it being one of the other members is trying to capitalize on the situation to save their partner. So instead of voting runnerman, they vote me who is more way more towny, but with the guise that I "chainsawed" and distanced myself from runnerman. If you believe two people are scum, why would you vote the more townie of the two?

That is all hypothetical, because we don't know runnerman is actually mafia or is even being indirectly bussed.

This is one of the most BS arguments I have ever heard. I'm not linked to anyone I'm just a villager, except in the minds of a few based on incidental randomness.

I've already noticed the level of play on this site is pretty low but is that really what anyone would consider an argument? One the one hand I feel I have to take this kind of a town read but on the other hand could also be deliberate.

Him calling an argument bullshit does not constitute fire.

I disagree. Let us argue about it for 5 pages now.

[Paperscraps]

runnerman was just put at L-1. I don't town read any of the people voting with me. Feel It has just jumped way up on my scumdar.

We still have 3 days after the replacement goes through. Feel It's votes have been rushed and he just jumped on to runnerman's wagon with no reason. I don't like it. His switch to me prior wasn't natural and now this switch to runnerman is bad. I am not seeing any attempt at lynching scum behind Feel It's votes. He is just trying to get this day to end.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Feel It

[Paperscraps]

Titus and Feel it have both associated me with runnerman now. Feel it's push/case against me is out of context and warped. This smells of one of them indirectly bussing runnerman(maybe) by trying to associate his scuminess towards me. It is laughable that you would vote me over him at this point in any case. My ISO is leaps and bounds more townie than his.

Scenario: One person on the scum team is looking pretty bad, i.e. runnerman. Titus or Feel it being one of the other members is trying to capitalize on the situation to save their partner. So instead of voting runnerman, they vote me who is more way more towny, but with the guise that I "chainsawed" and distanced myself from runnerman. If you believe two people are scum, why would you vote the more townie of the two?

That is all hypothetical, because we don't know runnerman is actually mafia or is even being indirectly bussed.

This is one of the most BS arguments I have ever heard. I'm not linked to anyone I'm just a villager, except in the minds of a few based on incidental randomness.

I've already noticed the level of play on this site is pretty low but is that really what anyone would consider an argument? One the one hand I feel I have to take this kind of a town read but on the other hand could also be deliberate.

Him calling an argument bullshit does not constitute fire.

I disagree. Let us argue about it for 5 pages now.

It's not like it's an opinion, though. You're dead wrong. He insulted someone mildly. No fire, no brimstone.

I was joking about us arguing. So sure T S O, you are right and I am wrong.

[Paperscraps]

There's having a compromise lynch and insisting on one. The people on the wagon, the reasons for them.... not liking any of it.

How can we discern the people calling this a compromise lynch that they can live with from opportunistic scum? You're giving them the foliage with which they can use their camouflage-equipment.

With runnerman being replacement I'm imagining there will be another deadline freeze. USE IT. Instead of filling the air with compromise-talk.

I would like to reinforce what Grim wrote about the runnerman lynch. A day one lynch with very little opposition should be sending some warning signals to the brain. The majority of players are on board with lynching runnerman, or willing to compromise on him. Yes, he is scummy. So is mafia bussing him today? Or he is just a weaker town player that is succumbing to all the pressure on him? I am thinking the latter now. You can believe whatever you want for me defending him here, but with everyone "willing" to lynch him I am thinking he is town. I have much more confidence in Feel It flipping scum than over runnerman at the moment.

Let us visit the last few posts from Feel It:

runnerman was just put at L-1. I don't town read any of the people voting with me. Feel It has just jumped way up on my scumdar.

We still have 3 days after the replacement goes through. Feel It's votes have been rushed and he just jumped on to runnerman's wagon with no reason. I don't like it. His switch to me prior wasn't natural and now this switch to runnerman is bad. I am not seeing any attempt at lynching scum behind Feel It's votes. He is just trying to get this day to end.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Feel It

How observant, in case you haven't noticed we've hit a brick wall and the only people who actually know who's innocent or scum is the scum. This town has discussed and dragged itself through so many circles I'm honestly quite bored and confused and we really need a lynch to move this game forward. I think runnerman has a pretty good chance of flipping scum. Also your vote and scumread is mostly just butthurt I nearly got you lynched.

I agree that you can talk yourself out of good lynches the more time goes one, but using this as the sole reason to vote some one is bad as town or scum. I agree that lynches provide information to help the town move forward, but again using this as the sole reason to lynch some one is bad. Feel It provides no reasons as to why he thinks runnerman will flip scum here. The last line isn't true. This reaction speaks more of Feel It being "butthurt".

I'm okay with runnerman lynch, this day has dragged on way to long already

VOTE: runnerman

This post is mafia trying to rush a lynch through or he is actually bored town. I could see both.

Keep attacking me baby, I like it rough.

Lel, she thinks scumhunting is scummy.

These next two posts resonate with mafia joking to deflect and down play things. Not really substantial, but these reactions to being called out for a bad vote don't sit well.

I believe nrg's gunsmith claim. Beast's claim can be verified if he tracks me. Even if I die, it will give the town powerful information.

I was not putting forth a terribad case on you. It is a damn good case on you. You said you wouldn't lynch beast yet place an opportunistic vote.

Being willing to lynch to ensure a lynch is generally protown but it is you runnerman and paper that are likely the scums.

That's an interesting thought between paper and runnerman, neither has voted for each other and seemed to have distanced themselves today. runnerman hasn't mentioned paper once, while paper has given a scumread on runnerman without voting him.

Lynching runnerman or Kcda at this point is meh

Dat subtle defense while dissociating through scumtell, lel.

A weak case against me, although I am biased here. Agreeing with people's points is fine, but it was more how Feel It arrived to this point so quickly that bugs me. He town read me not too long before and this shift to me being scum with runnerman isn't natural, imo. He is riding the coat tails of Titus's "chainsaw theory" and provided a twisted view on the quote from me.

I will reiterate my points as to why Feel It is scum:
- I don't see motive behind his votes to actually lynch scum.
- His reactions to being called out for sketchy actions are scummy.
- His shift to thinking I am scum with runnerman wasn't natural(seems forced).
- His general voting pattern has been onto easy lynches. He has been on the beast wagon, NRG wagon and now runnerman wagon.

GUYS THERE HAS TO BE A CONNECTION BETWEEN ME AND RUNNERMAN NOW RIGHT? I JUST DEFENDED HIM!!! THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE "CHAINSAW" VOTES IN THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME WERE COINCIDENCE. YOU HAVE TO GO AT LEAST 5 META LEVELS DEEPER TO UNDERSTAND.

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SELF VOTE IS OP!

/eats more popcorn

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@Grim I am not seeing both beastchizarf and runnerman being scum. If you think beast is mafia, that should point towards runnerman being town imo.

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Guys, can we kill Feel It yet?

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REVERSE WAGON LETS GO!!

UNVOTE:

VOTE: T S O

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We are not discussing who you should check. Mafia would just kill that person if they were town and make the check useless.

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OH SNAP!!! IT IS DONE!

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This flip onto

Bowser

is weird. We won't get nearly as much information from his lynch as we do the

T S O

lynch. I mean if you legit think

Bowser

is mafia then sure keep voting him. Reading his ISO, I don't see it.

His reads list is weird. His post 1063 read genuinely being upset to me. You could make the case he hopped onto the

T S O

wagon too fast then unvoted when people suspected him and back peddled on himself. That isn't enough for me to vote him right now.

T S O

is more toxic to town than helpful and was my gut read as mafia initially. I like the

T S O

lynch.

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The longer this day is going on the more we are talking ourselves out of good lynches. That is my main objection to this flip onto Bowser. Whenever I second guess myself day one I always regret it.

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So two vanilla townies died and none of the power roles. I get the grim kill, but the don kill is weird.

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I don't think it is going to take 12 days to lynch Beast.

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I am still thinking through the kills and claims yesterday. No need to rush. That response was really bad on your part. You aren't doing anything to help your case here.

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Ok, I am good now.

VOTE: BeastCharizard

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We should man/woman up and lynch

beast

today. With the three flips we have had so far, mafia is running this town at the moment. We are looking in the wrong places for lynches. I wanted

Feel It

pretty bad yesterday, but I was wrong on that front. I am ok with

Titus

' claim right now.

Beast's

claim and what he said today doesn't sit well. I don't buy it.

Let's say there is 4 mafia. With the general assumption that

NRG

,

Feel It

and

Titus

are town, that leaves us with

Smudger

,

beastcharizard

,

Bowser

,

Elyse

,

Huntress

,

Me

,

sthar8

. With 4 mafia we are potentially at mylo right now. I feel this setup would be more balanced around 3 mafia, but assuming the worst is always good. I have just stated the obvious.

I am trying to wrap my head around if I should be trusting

sthar

anymore. I have been town reading him for awhile now. The thing that erks me is

T S O

flipping town and the chaos

sthar

and

T S O

brought to town. It wasn't necessary.

Then we have

Elyse

who seems to be playing a lot with her gut. She has voted me a couple times now. She hasn't given one reason as to why I am mafia, just that her gut is pinging me. I feel like mafia would at least make up a reason here, but she hopped on the

Feel It

lynch yesterday with no original content towards that lynch. Seeing as

Feel It

is probably town, this is pretty scummy to me.

Smudger

I have no idea how to read now. He likes to focus on details and call people out for bad logic or using definite articles. I need to dig more into his ISO.

It is hard to read

Bowser

and

Huntress

as town, because of who they are replacing.

Huntress

hasn't done anything to change my view on that slot and I think we all agreed

runnerman

was a good lynch. Maybe this is a bad thing though. I mean a lot of us wanted

runnerman

dead.

Don

was defending

runnerman

I believe and now he is dead. Not sure what to think at the moment.

Bowser

has posted no content in my eyes. I could lynch

Bowser

plain and simple.

My pecking order would be

Beast

->

Bowser

->

Elyse

/

Huntress

.

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YOU'RE A WIZARD HARRY!

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Let's murder the beast already!!

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UNVOTE:

VOTE: Bowser

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I have never seen a mafia tracker role in any game I have played.

Seeing as you have only two completed games that weren't either open or semi-open that's hardly a valid reason for discounting the possibility of a mafia tracker in a closed game.

@ Feel it and Paper:

How about an answer to the questions I asked you?


If anyone is doubting that Paper is the best lynch for today just read 1217; particularly the second paragraph. He presents the idea that we could be in mylo (extremely unlikely), says we should assume the worst, but was voting Beast who is odds-on to be town?

@ Paper:

Why Bowser, who seems to be more of a policy lynch for you from your comments, rather than Elyse who you described as "pretty scummy"?

You are one of my top mafia reads right now. I don't care what questions you have for me. You are grasping on my lynch.. Beast is most likely mafia and suggesting he isn't means you aren't reading the game or you are mafia, in my eyes. Titus' claim lines up with there being two deaths and no counter-claims to vigi. There probably being a gunsmith is too much to not think Titus is town at this point. Beast's track makes zero sense. It is almost as if his "tracking" IS KILLING PEOPLE.

Mafia are always one meta-level deeper than town, but Grim goes hard on Beast. Grim dies. Draw whatever conclusion you want.

Elyse hasn't really done anything at this game. Her votes have no convinction or backing behind them. I will lynch any of you(Beast-Elyse-Huntress), but Bowser is basically saying he isn't going to be playing at all anymore. That isn't cool at all. His slot before he came in was scummy. He is a great lynch. It is both policy and a read. I don't think there are enough people right now to get behind the Elyse lynch.

Huntress you are trying to hard, but that isn't enough right now to put you over Bowser.

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woohoo no deaths!! Interesting to see what happens with this new development.

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Lazy scum I guess.

So NRG, what did you get on Smudger?

It is obvious who Beast tracked.

So either Beast and NRG are lying or Smudger is lying.

VOTE: Smudger

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MURDERTOWN USA LETS GO!

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So we are at 7 with three confirmed town,

beast

,

feel

and

elyse

and four unconfirmed

me

,

sthar

,

titus

and

huntress

.

Titus

really has no reason to retract here and put herself into a lynchable position as mafia. It could be a play, but meh I don't see it.

Sthar

I liked early game. He kind of feel off a bit in the middle relative to now, but overall hasn't rubbed me the wrong way.

Huntress

a.k.a.

runnerman

needs to die. Regardless of what

Huntress

has contributed.

Runnerman

was always a great lynch.

So if there is 4 total mafia we have 1 mislynch and 3 total mafia we have 2 mislynches. (super obvious stuff here).

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VOTE: Huntress

The vote from Titus on to me is kind of weird in that she wants to vote Huntress, but has voted me. I mean why vote at all? (pressure?) It is a weird move, but reads null at the moment.

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Oh THAT IS L-1 by the way on Huntress. So keep that in mind!

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UNVOTE:

So uh. She claimed VT and I kind of like it. Going to do some thinking.

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Could you clarify what you mean by 4th PR?

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By the way, it's probably time to say I'm not a joat at all. I was faking to try and get shot. It got us one additional investigation but it seems the scums have called my bluff.

Ok, I am confused then. Is Titus still a PR? I thought this was a retraction. Is Titus is still a vig and just not a joat?

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Could you clarify what you mean by 4th PR?

We have three PRs: Titus, NRG, Beast

You said you liked VA's VT claim.

Did you expect her to claim a PR?

So put yourself in Huntress' shoes. If she is the last mafia (with 3 mafia being more likely than 4 I think) and you don't claim a PR here, the game just ends. Claiming VT as mafia would just seal the deal for your lynch all the faster imo.

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Maybe I am overthinking, but I am trying to actually lynch mafia here and not town.

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So I am obvious town, let's move it along.

VOTE: Huntress

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It is too meta for me.

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ARE YOU READY FOR IT!!! CAN YOU HANDLE THE TRUTH!?

Spoiler:

I am VT

Haha, the suspense!