Mini 1483: Finagling of Flitter Hills

[Smudger]

Am playing just VLA right now... sorry have been travelling and will be up to speed by monday

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Ohhhhh question lists, they speak volumes to me.

will be active Monday.....

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Sorry jet lagged to hell at the moment will read tomorrow and give input...

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Ok shall begin to read back and will post make comment as I go. I will try to read forward of any particular areas where the discussion is interesting but if I do repeat old points then please bare with me, in particular as I have some 6 pages to get through.

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80 Have to agree on the point made by Papers in this post concerning voting and reasons, it is a must in my book.

And I see here 82 Sthar makes a complete crappy reply to this. Seriously wrong. If you want to encourage a case concerning a vote then you should provide reasons why, this you are not doing so how do you think people will support your case and join their vote to you. I understand that the argument regarding reaction seeking could be used, but you did not qualify this


88 ok I do not get this - KCDA asks Don to join the wagon on Sthar and does, did I miss something?

96 Beast states that Don looks scummy to him, could you clarify why, or has your opinion changed?

106 NRG are your serious here? up to this point had been very quite.

109 TSO picks ups point above regarding #106 and NGR, but does it a little more succinctly.

Going to post this lot for now as have just arrived at an interesting interchange between Beast and Sthar. More to follow...

currently where I up to with my reading Sthar, Beast, Don and NRG stand out for different reasons. Sthar is being obstructive but I think I get a feel for his tactics at this point of my read, of course if this reason has been explained I am yet to read it. Beast seems hung up a lot on Sthar, don't know why though. Don, does he do everything KCDA asks him to? NRG, well the Don is scummy statement stands out, simply because there is no real explanation at the time, could be something could be nothing,

Back to reading....

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sthar8 Paper responded. Now it is time for you to explain yourself. I can't wait to see this.

@Don: what is your opinion on sthar8?

You're fueling a useless argument. Why?

Agreed,

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Ok have now read 148 the explanation of behaviour by Sthar. Earlier I had stated that I had a feel for what he was trying to achieve, and for those skimming, I qualified that by saying, as I was trying to catch up, that I was yet to read the promised explanation from Sthar at that time and point of my read. While I was sort of right with my feel which was that he was winding people up to gauge responses to his behaviour it was as he has explained a lot more involved, and it is the first time I have ever seen this does that make him more town in my mind, maybe, but then it could all be a screen to distract. If it is then it is very well constructed, I think not though.

[Smudger]

@Sthar in 160 you ask for people to ask questions after you long analysis of your play to that long and what it meant. My question is quite simple. You spend so long pushing Beast to gauge reaction etc for future use and yet you place TSO and KCDA ahead of him in your scum reads and vote KCDA, now this may have been asked of you already if it has I am yet to get to it, but why? You give your reasons for each and yet you spent a scant amount of time probing both?

[Smudger]

All caught up.

and of course my list of stand outs has changed and my opinions on those who I had earlier highlighted has changed slightly. Of course this has been influenced by Sthars posts at #148 and #160. I also need to think over those that have come to life recently, yes that does include me, and would state that of all those currently in thread the following would sit to the scum side of Null in my mind at this time, they are Don, NRG, Beast and Titus. I can qualify this but would only really be sheeping most of what has been said by others. Feelit and Elyse come Accross as town currently, both because they are open and asking good questions while also respo ding to questions quite freely. Sthar for now sits slightly towards the town side of Null for me, yes his posts have currently influenced that thought. I wi now be active more do than the beginning and look forward to answers to some of my questions, if they are not Moot that is.

BTW not that it mattters tbh, but I am also an Airforce vet.... the Royal Air Force that is ;-p

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Oh that is a terrible post in some areas, sorry it was composed on my phone. Hopefully you can see past the mistakes

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@beast by all means please point out where you think I am using WIFOM in my posts, and I will answer any concerns you may wish to raise

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@TSO, have you not considered that Sthar is winding you up to gauge your reactions, as his approach is similar to what he did to Beast. I just get the impression that is his playing style. Also you say when you had a slight scum read on Don, has that now changed? I get the impression it has from post #210. If it has why and which way did go?

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@Beast, I am not ruling it out is what I am saying, but as I intimate in all probability it's a little too elaborate to be that, I can't see how that is WIFOM to be honest, to blinker myself by only looking at one side of something is surely not a good way to go. The other thing is you will I tend to speak my mind when I type,

@ NGR ummm yes sorry wrong person thanks...

@ Sthar there were other questions, well mot really questions to be frank more observations that could be raised as questions, however these were in my initial posts but they were answered or nullified by what I read after that point in time.

I do see a somewhat defensive stance by TSO but, you (Sthar) are provoking that IMHO.

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Sorry should be a "find" between will and I in #220

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In post 219, Elyse wrote:
So I'm scum because you disagree with my reads? Solid.

It's not just you, runnerman has also backed up your play in one of his few posts.

I have been following this push on Elyse and Runnerman as a possible team and I really do not see it. Just because runnerman backs a play by another player. surely then if i say " hey Feelit I agree with you on that point" is that not the same thing? Also it would be a foolish gambit by scum to be seen to do this?, or am I missing something here? I see that runnerman agrees with this here

In my experience scum are more likely to dissociate rather than leave traces to each-other, especially early game.

so am I now his buddy because I agree with him?

Let me be explicit: I am not attempting to provoke TSO, nor am I angry with him. I am responding in kind, and actively choosing not to escalate. The vitriol that he obviously takes offense at is precisely mirrored by the "abuse" that he's hurling my direction. If he had taken charizard's tack and engaged in rational discourse, that is what he'd receive in turn.

I do actually agree with you and possibly I was not explicit enough myself when I said this:

I do see a somewhat defensive stance by TSO but, you (Sthar) are provoking that IMHO.

yes he is being aggressive, but is that a scum trait? I would hazard that many of us have become aggressive when pushed. However the level of provocation should be looked at. In this case does the provocation illicit the response given? i would say borderline not.


Did I get an answer to this?

96 Beast states that Don looks scummy to him, could you clarify why, or has your opinion changed?

or this?

@TSO, have you not considered that Sthar is winding you up to gauge your reactions, as his approach is similar to what he did to Beast. I just get the impression that is his playing style. Also you say when you had a slight scum read on Don, has that now changed? I get the impression it has from post #210. If it has why and which way did go?

@TSO - Did you do this?

Me being helpful is not the same as me coaching. I'll post more on this point tonight.

[Smudger]

I'm not worried about people following my vote but at the same time I don't want to plop my vote down on someone no one else thinks is scummy. That's a waste.

Eh? if you find someone scummy then give them a poke and see where it goes, if it flies then others may take note or even join you. Just because no one seems to see what you see does not mean it is not there...

same question to smudger.

Ummmm basically as I tend to play that way, I only vote when I feel there is a good case or I want to push a response, I don't just jump on wagons because they are there, I need a reason to do so. when I do I generally explain why or wait for a reaction, either way there is a reason.

are these questions still relevant btw? as neither TSO or Beast seemed to answer them?

96 Beast states that Don looks scummy to him, could you clarify why, or has your opinion changed?

@TSO, ... Also you say when you had a slight scum read on Don, has that now changed? I get the impression it has from post #210. If it has why and which way did go?

elyse: you just missed an opportunity for us to be friends. if you really want the notreallygood lynch, why not try and convince me? I've been gone a couple days. I am like clay waiting to be molded. but instead of taking the opportunity, you're all like "whatever, catch up yourself." well fine then. thanks for nothing. please don't complain that you are not getting the lynch you want if you aren't going to try when the chance jumps up and bites you in the nose.

vote: elyse

i'll start here for now. i'll post when I catch up.

Am I the only one who really, really hates this post?

no you are not. I didn't get it either when I read it but then there is the slight backtrack here

LOL. This reminds of some d-bag friend that gets mad at you for calling him out on something he is in the wrong for.

its unfortunate that you have d-bags as friends. but on that note, I find it funny when people get upset by the "hey will you catch me up" request. I do it all the time, and it is amusing when I get the response I did from elyse. there is really no difference between asking to be caught up and asking a player for their reads. all it is is a request for someones take on whats going on. there is nothing in the request that implies I don't plan on catching up myself. but whatevz.

unvote

elyse is probtown. their response to my vote is what I would expect from a townie. along with kcda, that makes a 3 man voting bloc. now I need to read up and find the rest of us. tally ho gentlemen!

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3. Watch that language.

What?

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@Smudger, I answered long before you asked it but then later quoted the post where I did state my reasoning. Post 119 and 200 have the reason why I thought Don was scum at the time.

thanks, has anything changed that would increase decrease your view?

[Smudger]

@ Elyse, are you sure 29 was "an accident"? Seems to be a continent reply IMO..

[Smudger]

I want to see a push from Smudger or something. I don't know what to think of him.

Yes I know why you would think that. Well day one to me is, generally about getting a feel for people, yes that is a "No Shit Sherlock" statement. But hear me out, I do this by sitting back, obviously not too much or I get called out for lurking, and see who is active and what they are saying and who is calling out who. I then of course take the answers to questions I may ask on board and this is generally the way I like play D1

So what am I seeing? Well in no particular order

Elyse: - actually comes across to me as town, very active responding to questions and any challenges that are throwing their way (it is a Hydra yes?). reasoning is coherent and nothing is now coming across as outwardly questionable or raises my eyebrows.

Sthar: - he obviously likes to take the lead and is very convincing in how he presents his reads and interpretation of the play so far. His techniques are new to me in this game and the way he evaluates playing styles and personalities, At first read I it slightly threatening, but as I reread what was being said I realised what was going on. I know I say threatening, and that some may now say "hang on why would you feel threatened?" as i said, first glance made me stop and think hang on... as for Sthars alignment, I would like to think he is town I would like to think his approach is one I could trust, but I reserve judgement.

TSO: - I had a chuckle at Sthar's approach and subsequent "read" of TSO, but that is where it stopped to be honest. take away the TSO and Sthar interchange and what do we have? well we still have a defensive approach IMO and not much more TBH. input is low and responses to questions is not what I would have expected.

Titus: - is on some peoples possible scum lists including my own early on, but I don't see it right now, yes again input so far is low, to be expected D1 maybe, but the majority of what is being said does not ring alarm bells with me.

Runnerman:- Up until recently I was feeling possible scum, however recent interaction has started to change that perception.

KCDA :- I dont get it at all, the style is wacky and simplistic IMO, is that bad, not really but even still king of the lurkers in my book and for that reason aloneI have a bad feeling about him, enough to put him in the scum category at this time, yes pretty much, and I actually echo what NRG is saying about KDCA.

Yessiree :- ?? have played in a game with Yessiree before but had to replace out, there seems to be no difference from the little I have seen and experienced previously, I would reserve judgement on him also.

Paperscraps: - leaning town on Papers right now for similar reasons as those I have alluded to with Elyse. is active and responds to questions and challenges coherently.

Beasts: - Obviously an experienced player and is very active with, IMO, balanced and objective responses to questions and challenges and an early candidate of "here is some pressure how you going to deal with it approach" from Sthar, and to be fair and honest my initial feelings were at that stage " I don't know maybe scum" and now they have moved to "middle for diddle", meaning again I will reserve judgement but would lean slight town.

FeelIt :- have played a few games with FeelIt before, in those IIRC he was town and I see no difference between what I saw there and what I am seeing presently. Yes his input is low, but he is making good comment and is involved when he does post, I think currently FeelIt is town, based on my experience of him previously.

NRG:- was an original possible scum choice of mine and remains so TBH, content of posts have been fairly non committal and some posts unnecessary IMO. would like to see more input.

Don:- again was on my original stand out list as possible scum and until the "hey let's form a gang" post, I was coming around to thinking of his inputs as sensible and town like, but that idea he has presented in my mind seems to say, "follow me lets kill this list of people first because I don't like them, and you don't either do you, no you don't, go on you can trust me!" the bit that seems to be missing is "then I turn on you... "


so after all that where do I think my vote is best served, well here:

VOTE: TSO

why TSO and not the other possible scum in my list, as I said before take away the interchange with Sthar and there is not really a lot there, short answers to questions and the challenging attitude remains an underlying current IMO.

[Smudger]

now that it has been explained how a "gang" might work, and why it would not work right now, I remain very sceptical. However, on thinking it through, in my limited exerience I would venture that this sort of thing happens in most games anyway, a sort of unwritten agreement to work together forms between 1, 2 or 3 players as they all become comfortable with their individual reads on one another, this is regardless of the actual truth of the mattter with regards to alignments, and inevitably this serves the game and its conclusion. This is the first time I have been in a game where it has been suggested and I remain uncomfortable with the idea at this time.

[Smudger]

Hi Grim

I'm ignoring the back and forth between sthar and TSO. It's become annoying to read at this point.

I have to agree with Elyse here and Beats I see,

what use to us is any of this? It is clouding, IMO, the game now and is tiresome and I think we get it TSO and Sthar like to argue about whether one or the other is being objective or subjective. It is not helping TBH so could you both stop hijacking the thread with this as I no longer find it constructive.


going to read now and see what else there is here

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Plus, I don't think you're a VI.

a what?

[Smudger]

My thoughts atm:

town

:

Elyse

(very townish tone to her posts),

shtar

(the most rational arguments)

leaning town:

Titus

(wishy washy)

scum:

beast

(sticking with my vote)

enigma:

kcda

(wtf posts),

don

(more wtf)....

TSO

(lil kid?)


The one thing I have to note is that some players who I haven't mentioned are slipping by relatively unnoticed for me. I'm not sure if that's a potential scum-read or my brain being selective as I'm playing 3 games at the same time. I'll have to look into the others later.

This seems to say, hey those not posting a lot get to it, but on the other hand it says more loudly, hey I cant be bothered reading as I know who people are...

as for the reads they seem to say baaaahhhh to me.

having now looked at the ISO, I have a "small" observation, runnerman has a pocket full of posts and not much added IMO. He qualifies he is playing in three games, but then he is pulled up early in the day by Beast for not posting much and replies with:

In what way am I doing nothing? In the games I tend to play this is normal day 1 perusing. If it's more natural around here to constantly accuse people and vote left and right on provisional suspicions, I can do that too.

So he is calling people out for not posting and giving just enough to get by himself after earlier saying "hey its acceptable its D1 and so what". this does not sit right with me.

Broken quote tag fixed by Toomai.

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@Mod could you fix that tag please?

Indeed.

[Smudger]

UNVOTE:

I have to agree with the general thought that is now coming through the TSO is just an angry person, This and coupled with the ongoing soap opera he and Sthar are undertaking, while I will not discount him as a possible lynch I need to reassess some of my reads, in particular this one

Runnerman:- Up until recently I was feeling possible scum, however recent interaction has started to change that perception.

[Smudger]

Plus, I don't think you're a VI.

a what?

Village idiot.

thanks, are you? [/sarcasm]

[Smudger]

Beast IIRC you said English was not your first language? if so I get now where I though Elyse was a hydra, you keep referring to people as they or them, it is confusing but now I have seen this and, as I suspect it is a translation issue, I will try to bear it in mind. It might probably also explain the use of the word "threat" in response to KCDA, but then your explanation at 462 I feel is rather lacking. All threats should be identified and extinguished, that includes those who lurk their way through a day, in particular D1as this gives nothing to base reads on later in the game where it becomes more important to get it right.

I am still uncomfortable with the way in which KCDA is playing, he comes in makes very short posts and, funnily enough as he says, we let him get away with it FFS. KDCA looking forward to your post tonight... *not holding my breath btw*

have also looked back at runnerman after my 414 and remain unimpressed, there is no real hunting going on here IMO,

@Grim did you want an answer to this

(though I didn't understand how the vote ended up on TSO here given the reads)

as I do try to explain it here

so after all that where do I think my vote is best served, well here:

VOTE: TSO

why TSO and not the other possible scum in my list, as I said before take away the interchange with Sthar and there is not really a lot there, short answers to questions and the challenging attitude remains an underlying current IMO.

I have though now rethought this vote and removed it,


also I don't think I got an answer for this?

@Smudger, I answered long before you asked it but then later quoted the post where I did state my reasoning. Post 119 and 200 have the reason why I thought Don was scum at the time.

thanks, has anything changed that would increase decrease your view?

now my strongest scumreads are runnerman, Beast and KCDA. The only change in this regard therefore from my read at 335 is that Beast has moved away from slight town into the scum bracket. Although its not really a read n KCDA as there is not much to read, and the same could be said for runnerman.

I would also say that my read on NRG is moving more town as he is now more involved and asking relevant questions, and I am liking what I am seeing at this time.

[Smudger]

wow [/sarcasm] thanks will read that before bed tonight,[/more sarcasm]

[Smudger]

English is my first and only language I am actually good at. I don't know how you got that it wasn't my first language.

you keep using they and them? when its is he or she?

[Smudger]

Reading that wall would take you ten minutes tops. I just joined a game that started TWO WEEKS ago. What is ten minutes compared to two weeks? Nothing. Just read it and spare me your sarcasm. Everyone else's posts combined have proven to be much more reading material, I'll have you know.

Oh, so a sarcastic comment, hits a nerve, this is interesting. I wrote that post after I read the wall. You reaction is somewhat overly aggressive, and the fact you then post the above is again, IMO, over reacting.

[Smudger]

First just to give you guys the heads up, my weekend is Friday/Saturday, so my activity is virtually nil over those days. I have read through and the following have caught my eye for one reason or another, meaning good, bad indifferent. I also acknowledge the call for votes which I will get to later today (RL)

but people vote without reasons attached all the time.

so why do people jump on those who do this? because they want an explanation and not just for the obvious reason of "why? what did he/she do that you find scummy?", but to check the person voting is actually aware of what is going on in the thread and also to find discrepancies. So is it not a good practice to actually give a reason?

but no one seems interested in what I have to say in any of those posts

I am interested in anything people say, I think most are still focused on your group strategy theory and thus sometwhat blinkered to anything else you mat say.

sure.

Unvote
Vote: Paperscraps

thats a case? niccccee.... is that all you have to convince us to go with you on this?

You've changed your mind a lot in merely three days.

so what, its part of the game to change your mind and opinions on others is it not?

This does not sound as something you post after you read the wall. It sounded very much like you didn't read the wall, and even worse, weren't planning on doing so, and this pissed me off.

I had read it, I was being sarcastic as this is the first game I have played in where a player writes a huge wall virtually every post. I read everything I can, but if that is your reaction to sarcasm then its is pretty out of place to be honest, how would you react during a real attack, in the same way?

Here's why: Smudger mistakingly linked notreallygood with the statement: "Don is scummy." (in post 188) I had noticed that mistake and was wondering how people involved would react. As I said before, notreallygood made no such statement in his reads list, but only mentioned a disagreement he had with don_johnson, without adding any read. This reply, he's again avoiding to give a read on don_johnson. Instead of giving or clarifying his read on don_johnson, he answers to this confusion by giving his read on sthar. I found that very odd, and took it as an associative tell between notreallygood and don johnson.

I missed it also and I was involved, but a good point nonetheless.

[Smudger]

UNVOTE:

let get busy..

also guys... srsly... im like bad lurking... and no one notices?

cmon guys put pressure where pressure is due.

+10 scum points to chamander.

anyway im putting this off too much.. im going to get a post up tonite.

I am still uncomfortable with the way in which KCDA is playing, he comes in makes very short posts and, funnily enough as he says, we let him get away with it FFS. KDCA looking forward to your post tonight... *not holding my breath btw*

so I was right?

[Smudger]

Ok actually sooner than promised above having now read through again. Based on my previous reads my scum pool remains the same, but with a very inactive KCDA moving up the ladder towards number 1 spot. However, let us see what the Mod Prod may bring. therefore the only real viable candidate for me is Beast as it would seem the jury is out on runnerman my other read with KDCA and Beast.

VOTE: Beastcharizard

[Smudger]

UNVOTE:

[Smudger]

meh.

vote:beast

I think that's L-1. I don't think anyone else will get traction and I am not a fan of drawing out day 1 too long, particularly with the amount of walling going on. smudgers last post doesn't sit right with me. looks a lot like filler.

*sorry, series of posts by smudger. not necessarily the last one.

unvote, vote: paperscraps

I will also vote Titus. Jury is still out on runnerman. Gotta look more into that one. what do you guys think of smudger?

To answer your first point Don, on reflection they do look like fillers and to be honest they are. I had read through the posts that had been made since my last interaction ad found nothing that seemed to jump out at me. Or that was not being discussed at length, and, while finding what was being discussed interesting and valid felt my input was basically a sheep of many view points. I also notice your question of the others regarding me and had to smile as no one seemed to be answering you, thus it sort of bears this statement out really

In post 500, don_johnson wrote:
but no one seems interested in what I have to say in any of those posts


I am interested in anything people say,

I think most are still focused on your group strategy theory and thus sometwhat blinkered to anything else you mat say

.

so as you seem to be pushing this what are your thoughts on me Don?

[Smudger]

Guys I think don johnson is more likely scum. He puts a vote on to force a claim from beast despite thinking he's town enough to be in an alliance with and not lynch him today.

how did he force the claim? he just voted, albeit without any notice of intent. But that in itself is not scummy is it? So while he did not force the claim IMO, is it scummy to put a player at L-1? I think the simple fact he did it and there was not a hammer gives me enough doubt to think not at this time. If Don was scum and was lining Beast up for a hammer surely he would have placed Beast at L-1 with the knowledge that a hammer was coming?

[Smudger]

so what, its part of the game to change your mind and opinions on others is it not?


Yes, but not rapidly.

disagree, you could have a rapid change of mind, an L-1 claim for example has stopped a lynch for now..

In post 556, Grimgroove wrote:
Anyone has any thoughts on notreallygood's 542? The defense doesn't really seem to go to the bottom of things, addresses some superficial remarks, but I have to say it has in no way managed to alleviate my suspicions of notreallygood. Where they were a bit fading, they are now in the forefront of my mind again.


I'm glad you can insist your opinions.

I dont get this, insists" his opinions?

I don't like a TSO lynch because it seems like all of their posts are really arguing with sthar. They haven't had a chance to actually contribute.

I disagree, TSO has had plenty of opportunity to actually be involved, and it takes 2 to argue a point. Sthar was involved in that argument but I see no one pointing an FoS at Sthar. But that is probably because he is more active than TSO

Which basically leaves me with a quandary, Beast has claimed should I believe that claim, well I have removed my vote for now. My other two candidates for a lynch are absent, one, runnerman, is apparently being replaced and I agree with the observation that the replacement should be given a fair run for now. what of KDCA?

[Smudger]

welp

Replacing Kcdaspot, unless he magically responds to his prod before I get up tomorrow (will update this post).

ok did not see that, me bad

[Smudger]

I have just compared Tutus posts with those of FeelIt and to me there is not much difference in what they are doing. I am not saying that they are sheeping each other but their actually input, what they are inputting and how the are reacting and i think what I say here

Titus: - is on some peoples possible scum lists including my own early on, but I don't see it right now, yes again input so far is low, to be expected D1 maybe, but the majority of what is being said does not ring alarm bells with me.

...

FeelIt :- have played a few games with FeelIt before, in those IIRC he was town and I see no difference between what I saw there and what I am seeing presently. Yes his input is low, but he is making good comment and is involved when he does post, I think currently FeelIt is town, based on my experience of him previously.

is right. Increasingly I feel that both are town and so wonder why people see Titus differently from FeelIt.

for example Titus posts: 522 , 470 and 326

compared to

FeelIt Posts: 497 , 344 and 184

theses are just examples of similar posts and all say town to me.

[Smudger]

smudger: you are a difficult read. you are posting, but it just seems a bit soft to me, but then again you did mention that as your playstyle(cautious voter, etc.) in any case. please vote titus.

there is this,

which is followed by this

Titus wrote:
Don_johnson, what posts do you feel I'm not reading?



all of them. you made some comment about my "feelit and titus are scumbuddies" post,

but then absolutely no reference to my post 623

First he instructs me to put a vote on Titus, then tries to say that Titus is not reading, and yet fails to see my post where I explain my thoughts on both Titus and Feel It at this time. why would I vote for someone who to me appears town?

and now he is intimating that Elyse could be scum because she plans at night, So is everyone scum in your eyes DJ?

maybe Titus is right,

VOTE: Don_johnson

[Smudger]

Don I am not convinced and you yourself seem to be somewhat hypocritical, can it no be said you are guilty of exactly the same thing you are saying Titus is doing?

[Smudger]

UNVOTE:

I am getting the feeling that the Don vs Titus tiff is going to go on for a while and after the latest interchange I am not convinced enough either way that one,or the other, or both are scum or not.

@don
There are something unnatural about Titus.

1. They've been viewing you as scum since post 180. They keep encouraging others to vote you.
2. They had said that Elyse was town, but they didn't know why she voted me in post 633.
3. Why would they hammer me if they don't think I'm scummy?
4. They volunteer to be tracked by the tracker (if beast's claim is true).

However, like you've said, I don't think scum would be that obvious. I'll consider a little bit about the wagon.

pardon?

ISO him. Like Paperscraps pointed out, ever since notreallygood got in the spotlight his posting style has changed considerably. And even before that change there were many points against him. Read my walls if you want to find out which.

they have changed, the question is why.

[Smudger]

that means basically yes they could be town or scum, right now I have no idea. push me I would say they are certainly both heading towards town, where as you are still going in the other direction along with NRG.

[Smudger]

smudger: way to avoid addressing the crux of the issue. i.e. titus' horribad case against me and now his waffling...

ok was not avoiding, it was taking into consideration the continued discussion between the 2 of you is such that I am now unconvinced either way. In essence your observations that have appeared in post since this post by myself

Don I am not convinced and you yourself seem to be somewhat hypocritical, can it no be said you are guilty of exactly the same thing you are saying Titus is doing?

have lead me to change my mind, or is that a bad thing to do? (yes that is meant as sarcasm)

But now that this discussion between the 2 of you has progressed, as want it will, your arguments against Titus begin to form sense in many respects, but then so does the counter from Titus regarding "your catch up", so it is hard to actually see which of you has a strong case. I think this is borne out by the simple fact that wagons on either fo you are not forming quickly. Therefore i reserve judgement at this time.

Now, the unconfirmed claim of NRG, there was no pressure to claim, he was not at L-1 and yet claimed as Grim persisted with his case. Obviously This leads me to think 1. he is inexperienced town and began to panic really way too early or 2. he is scum with a fake claim to shift Grims attention away from him. Now I do not think for one moment that NRG is inexperienced in a way that he would panic and claim, so why claim? I also would like to say that I am still not fully convinced on either claim, and, has anyone noticed a slow down of Activity from Beast since the claim?

Elyse, you are now focusing on Feel It, why are his posts pinging your gut?

[Smudger]

I have more active games now then I did at the start of this game. I am trying to keep up my activity in this one. Also, activity in general has dropped recently.

I don't like the TSO lynch because this is just how he plays from my experience. If anything I think he would be easier to read as the game went on. He will start using tactics later on if he is scum that I believe I could pick up on.

why did you not say TSO plays like this before?

[Smudger]

I read something about an alternative to RVS where someone posts a lot of questions. So i am going to do that because I can. Personally, I think we should combine the two.

Have any of you played together before?
How many games have you played on this site?
What is your win ratio?
Why shouldn't I lynch you?

I have played a lot with TSO. He is always scum so that is why I am going to actually vote him.
I have finished 1 game and am currently in 2 other than this 1.
I am undefeated on this site. Not hard with only 1 finished game though.
I am not going to self-vote because that is scummy.

VOTE: T S O I actually meant to do this the first time I posted. refer to reason in this post and the first one.

Why do you think your questions are conducive to finding scum?

My questions were to get a background on people. I know about you so I didn't care if you answered them. Getting people talking will ease the tension at the beginning of the game and get it rolling.

I would like to think I accomplished that.

@TSO, did that readlist by notfeelinggood look like a huge fencesit. Everything is seems.

Why are you only asking TSO?

@TSO, did that readlist by notfeelinggood look like a huge fencesit. Everything is seems.

Agreed.

Why are you answering other people's questions? I have been told that doing so was scummy and buddying.

The T S O lynch feels like a policy lynch which I am not ok with. TSO might actually be useful in reading later on in the game. I do not and will not support a TSO lynch unless someone gives me a none policy reason.

In fact you do not give TSO a hard time at all, and yet say nothing of what you have just said about your experience of him in previous games. If anything this looks and now sounds like you are defending him. I am not comfortable at all with this now

VOTE: beastcharizard]/vote]

[Smudger]

Beast why would I believe your claim? You have done not much since you claimed and I am not happy with your interaction or lack of it with TSO. You say you trust him and yet how could you possibly know where he is aligned. You have very little direct interaction with him and from what I have found, besides what could possibly be regarded as a distancing move by the early vote, all you have seemed to do is defend him. So you claim tracker, ok there could well be one in the game, but obviously, as there has been no counter, it would seem you maybe legit. At least I thought so until this TSO issue. Which could be nothing I was still in 2 minds regarding your claim. Now I am suspicious and remain so after your response to my vote which is genuine,

VOTE: Beastchizarf

So convince me where I am wrong

[Smudger]

Darn it

VOTE: beastchizard

[Smudger]

@runnerman THERE WE GO! Finally some fire from you. Tell me who the mafia is and we can go from there.

this does not sit easy with me, in my mind on the one hand it appears to be good encouragement on the other, coaching?.

I would've claimed cop or doctor instead of gunsmith if I wanted to fakeclaim. I don't know about beast, but I hope his claim is true.

Not really, a cop or doc may actually attract a counterclaim, a gunsmith, not so much. In my mind it seems a well thought out choice for a fake claim

I looked at beast, He plays a very open style (sharing his ideas) which means we can keep him around as he's not a threat even if he is scum. I'm still keeping an eye on him though.

Many tyrants and crooks throughout history have been open in the way they communicate, does that mean what they are saying is the truth and to be believed? good to know though that you have your eye on him.

@Smudger
Feel It's vote on Paperscraps seems very forced and he barely gives a reason. I think he just wants to get a lynch in that's not on him

It is the way he plays, I think I have played with him now in 3 games, I in fact pulled him up for something similar in my first game IIRC, I was wrong. Right now Feel It is playing in a way that I am 70% sure is the way he plays when Town, but I could be wrong again.

Why do I have to convince you that I am not scummy?

ok dont then,

I am obviously not the best lynch for the day since I claimed a town PR

Agreed

UNVOTE:

for now, again....

I refuse to let you skim your way through the game by expecting that calling me a child is enough of a read.

I actually agree with this sentiment, and have noticed since the TSO/Sthar soap opera went quite Sthar stopped being part of the game, only to resurface and get it on again with TSO... Sthar why? do you not feel that TSO has actually started to play the game? the Don/Titus affair has been going on long enough, and now Don has admitted to tunnelling on Titus, do you not think you should do the same here with TSO, or do you get some childish pleasure out of winding him up? there is scum hunting then there is baiting, all I see now is baiting.

in the mean time the relationship between Papers and Runnerman is sticking in my mind again,

[Smudger]

f the relationship bothers you so much why don't you vote one of them. If one of them flips scum then you can pretty much guarantee the other one is, no? Also, if they flip scum that is great for village as well.

somewhat eager are you not?

[Smudger]

If the relationship bothers you so much why don't you vote one of them. If one of them flips scum then you can pretty much guarantee the other one is, no? Also, if they flip scum that is great for village as well.

Why would one of us be guaranteed to flip scum? It's a) a fallacy and b) setting up lynches for the next day. Do not like.

Why are you commenting, this has nothing to do with you?

[Smudger]

Well I was under the impression he was commenting on my feel for the Papers/Runmerman relationship.

[Smudger]

I can accept the unvote, but why quote his post and state "agreed", when you clearly didn't agree a page or two ago and nothing has changed. also

for now, again....

basically says why, I see sense for now and that wagon is not forming much is it?

why are you dredging up single quotes from way back? you seem to really want to force this connection between scraps and runner, but you're not voting either of them. Your posts are starting to look forced.

I have had both in my sights for some time, do ISO me and look at my suspicions in my listings, but more Runnerman than Papers. In fact Papers is only really coming to light recently because of the discussions surrounding Runnerman.

I am pulling up posts from before, as I missed them first time round, and as far as I can see, no one else has commented on them or pulled them up. Yes my posts are forced as this game is slowing down, painfully and I want to be sure we actually lynch for a good reason and not because we are misguided, or guided, by those who can string sentences together that are, for all intents and purposes, coherent and appear to make sense. As for voting, I reserve the right to use my vote as I see fit and will cast it when I am ready to, so forgive me for not conveniently jumping on a comfortable wagon and do know that I will use it correctly.

[Smudger]

Papers I do not agree with all with your observations on Feel It, they are, in many respects, doing exactly what you accuse him of doing, finding a weak reason to FoS him. While your argument appears sound it too is clutching a straws. Please Explain

What motives you are looking for in peoples votes?

How would you perceive the correct way to react to an accusation is?

Would you not agree that Towns greatest weapon is its vote, why is his using his weapon in a way he sees fit, scummy? You say "easy wagons", others have been on those wagons, do their reasons for voting bear more weight than Feel Its? if so please show me where these vote differ:

Unvote
Vote runnerman

Implying Titus has it in for him finally pushed it for me.

Unvote:
Vote: notreallygood

Turns out Paperscraps wasn't really that scummy.

My play this game has been fucking car-crash.

sure.

Unvote
Vote: Paperscraps

unvote, vote: paperscraps

I will also vote Titus. Jury is still out on runnerman. Gotta look more into that one. what do you guys think of smudger?

VOTE: T S O

I don't really like it.
Let's see what others think.

I think this:

VOTE: notreallygood

is for the best.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: notreallygood

Here is what I am currently thinking, an attitude has prevailed through out the game so far and this I get from my limited but increasing experience in games,. This that certain phrases and ways of expressing things become 'flavour of the month". In this game it would appear that the defence against an attack is to accuse the attack of being weak, this goes for highlighting others play. But this, ättitude" invariably exists more strongly through D1 and some of D2, then it gets down to true work by those still in the game.

So in that vane I see you are trying to push attention away from yourself and runnerman by pulling in a "weak"argument for Feel It. Do you believe that anyone is going to jump on a Feel It wagon right now? no I do not, and while some of your points are noteworthy for later in the game.

[Smudger]

*to complete post above*

I dont think they will sway many vote to Feel It

[Smudger]

Way to drag my votes out of context :-s, I explained my TSO vote on that very same page,

I know, that is the point I am making to Papers, his case is weak and i would like to see him explain the difference between the vote he is criticising Feel It for against those other votes...

[Smudger]

live with it

this just gets worse, not better, Feel It, really? yes that sounds forced but fuck it, that is my honest response.

Based on everything that is going on and previous discussions it is obvious that we are divided on who to lynch which really says a lot about the game. t I think lynch candidates are runnerman, Papers and less so TSO, I also will state that Beats claim is yet to be proved and I reserve judgement on it until tomorrow. I do not agree with the Feel It wagon one bit. OK yes I am defending him but my gut says it is wrong.

so

VOTE: runnerman

[Smudger]

I prefer a Feel It lynch over a runnerman-lynch, but I think both will flip town. Feel It's self-vote is him throwing a towel in the ring. Either he should ask for a replacement or we should be lynching him.
Look at 858 :(You don't want to lynch runnerman after reading that, do you? Will comment on it in more detail later.

I had read it, but to be honest with a subjective attitude in that Beast is who he is purporting to be, If I read it objectively it comes out as somewhat non conclusive IMO, thus my comment on Beast in my previous post.

[Smudger]

we just seem to be bogged down in a quagmire of "accusation-counter accusation- he said -you- said- look at this" and all it is doing is making more people look scummy in my mind. The persistence of people to tunnel each other is actually driving me to distraction. All it is doing is focusing my mind on the simple conclusion that in the Titus/Don, Grim/Beast battles there must be scum more likely one if not 2, and everything else is a red herring.

and I find myself agreeing with this

Arguments between two people have been the most annoying thing this game. Can we please stop it?

this day needs to end, we all need to agree who is the most viable lynch candidate and who is the back up if there is a claim. With the current situation concerning runnerman a claim is unlikely other than that we have varying candidates from different people.

My alt Lynch right now is KCDA (based on what we currently have from that slot), still suspicious of most of the rest of you, however Feel IT and Titus remain town in my mind right now. What I am getting from Grim and his persistent tunnelling on Beast is actually a scum vibe now, we get it we understand your POV, no need to ram it down our throats every post!

Finally and to be honest I actually try to stay away from the thread least I get sucked into this f**king maelstrom of crap.

lets get it on shall we?

[Smudger]

okay lots said since I was last here. First to answer some direct questions to me

My alt Lynch right now is KCDA

887 is golden. why kc is on anyones radar at this point...

FRUSTRATION at the whole way this game is going, in my mind the safest lynch alternative right now

What I am getting from Grim and his persistent tunnelling on Beast is actually a scum vibe now, we get it we understand your POV, no need to ram it down our throats every post!

but titus is town? why?

I find the argument and counter argument has both valid points and questionable points as I do with your inputs, I have already covered my thoughts on this and your ongoing ding dong is tiresome once again I understand what it is YOU find scummy about Titus, right now I disagree. that does not mean I have not taken on board what both of you are saying, I have.

Grim also asked my thoughts on you Don, I will answer again, I have already stated this in the thread and that has not changed.

Now going to re read the rest to see what has been going on.

Broken quote tag fixed by Toomai.

[Smudger]

@ Mod could you fix that bad tag please?

Yep.

[Smudger]

I'm not tunneling beast. I'm telling you why lynching runnerman is a bad idea. That beastcharizard comes into the picture with this is just another sign that points to him.

I disagree. If you want I can put it another way you are blinkered and seemingly focused on one player because he has rubbed you up the wrong way. It is tiresome and while noteworthy something that can be left until tomorrow to see what the day brings.

(not to mention misguided considering everything I have contributed)

oh ok then so you are town, thanks..

what do you think of titus' request for you to track him? can you think of a town role that could reasonably confirm you as titus claims? do you think it is a pro town suggestion for you to use your track in such a manner?

actually makes sense, and I know it has been reasoned before but I had not taken it on board.

these two questions could really stand to be answered by everyone:

1) of the three pr claims, which do you doubt most and why?

I am sceptical of any claim during D1 as it smacks of desperation IMO. Unless you are fast approaching lynch and your PR is strong then I see no reason to claim. Of the 3, if you push me the one I am most doubtful of is Beast's, I think that a tracker claim is probably a safe beat as a fake claim as the odds are slightly better against a counter claim than that of Doc or Cop for example.

2) what possible power role do you think titus could have which would confirm townbeast to the rest of us if beast does as titus suggests?

Vanillaiser, Fruit Vendor or Visitor, Vote Thief or Politician are some that I can think of.

I'll be honest I've checked out of this game for this day phase.

I'll be honest ditto, almost

Also, where the hell is sthar???

I had forgot he was playing.....

Tell us why before I kill you tonight!

Joke.

is it? what would have happened if TSO had made similar posts, or Beast for that matter?

as for the rest of what I have read

I repeat:

bogged down in a quagmire of "accusation-counter accusation- he said -you- said- look at this"

yawn...

[Smudger]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY GRIM

[Smudger]

On my phone and just seen the replacements. Welcome to you both. Also have skimmed the last 2 pages and will re read tomorrow (Sunday) when I have more time. For now though

UNVOTE:

[Smudger]

^Badposting. IGMEOY

thanks, I get the impression you maybe skimming or selectively posting, will read on to see which is the case

How did you read this far into the game and still think that a fallacy coupled with a connotative appeal to emotion would have any hope of manipulating me?

noe whatsoever, Why would you believe it was? my point is that is what it looks like from my point of view.

you (and others) aren't reading my fucking posts.

I could say go fuck yourself, but I will not be drawn into a petty slanging match with you. Your statement is not true and your rather aggressive response is unneeded tbh.

TSO hasn't been angry at me in a while; that's obvious. He's playing the ad misericordiam for all it's worth, and you're buying into it.

again not true

1. Stop talking about that.
2. One of those is explicitly non-normal and the other two are extremely borderline. Try to keep your suggestions sane and relevant?

I was asked a question along with everyone else which includes you, the question stands in isolation IMO and so I responded, I see no one else responding to it.

In fact your attitude is forceful and rather dictatorial and I find that rather tiresome. I have from your first grumbling believed you to be a powder keg waiting to explode, your interaction with TSO was a pointer to this, now you respond in this manner to someone playing the game? Why you would think I or anyone else would bow down to this approach is beyond me.

that said your case at 978 is rather conclusive and I see why so many have U turned their votes, I am also wondering why TSO has not made a stronger argument against it going on the in thread history between you two.

oh and BTW, you are not skimming or selectively posting...

reading more

Broken quote tag fixed by Toomai.

[Smudger]

DAMN,

@ mod could you fix the screwed up tag please, thanks

'k

[Smudger]

I have to hand it to Sthar, that wasn't a bad case. Additionally, he's elongated it so much he knows I'm not going to reply back. Well played.

give it a go,

this though does not help, do you not see....

B. His arguing skills are undeveloped.

He consistently uses terms with little or no understanding of their definition, he gets distracted by tangential issues and semantics.

He's more concerned with winning the argument than making his point.

Show me where.

.....obviously not.

VOTE: TSO

you are L-1 again,

[Smudger]

Inspector Columbo's strategy of seeming dumber than he is doesn't suit you very well.

lol

UNVOTE:

Why Bowser exactly? are we being asked to simply lynch on the "last in first out" school of justice? his responses of course are not helping.

[Smudger]

I'm feeling less comfortable sheeping don_johnson in retrospect, definitely compared to sthar's case on T S O. On top of that, Paperscraps was correct whens tating we get more from the other lynch.
T S O did pass the fake hammer test, though I prefer to say he did not fail it, but not in such a way as to alleviate suspicions enough.

I would agree Sthars case is stronger than Don's, but combined they have merit. Trouble is his reaction tot h fake hammer was believable, could have been more believable if he had not actually pointed out that it was not a hammer shortly after his reaction. So question is was it a faked reaction? hmmmm at the moment will err on the side of caution, pending any more responses from Bowser, although his last post looks like he has given up.

[Smudger]

is that Lynch?

[Smudger]

yes it is......

[Smudger]

I am right in saying there are roles that when investigated by someone could return an innocent ? For example if a cop investigated a GF that person could be returned as innocent, which is what Sthar is alluding to in his earlier post. likewise there are roles that are non town aligned that have a killing action but do not necessarily have a gun, say a mafia Doctor or SK? Thus we are accepting that NGR has given us a read on Feel It, we should believe that read, in fact we should believe NGR is who he claims to be. NGR was on many early scum lists or under suspicion for some time until he claimed. Now he effectively clears himself and Feel It by stating Feel It does not have a gun? I understand fully that there is a probability that this is correct, but it is strange so many have accepted it without question, Feel It may not have a gun, does not mean he is town, NGR maybe not be who he purports to be, there are possibilities still in play here that leave an area of doubt with regard to both.

I am also somewhat startled that Beast would follow Grim? there was no indication IMO that Grim was suspected by Beast of being scum, I would have thought that anyone from Huntress. Titus, Bowser, Sthar or myself would have been better picks to follow.

I would also like to comment on the discussion surrounding Sthar and his tunnelling of TSO. IMO, you did tunnel him and were repetitive in your attacks and votes for him, yes you pulled your vote when he got close to lynch, and you yourself point this out

So you think I'm scum who singlehandedly pushed TSO to lynch twice yesterday then pulled my vote at the last minute in order to further some plan? Who would fall for that? And more importantly, what would I gain from it?

you would gain a lot to be honest, you would gain the simple thing you seemed to have gained, the believe by many that you are town. and the fact that the lynch on TSO took place while you were sleeping, is really not of any consequence as you had achieved what you set out to do and requested to do,

quote="In post 1014, sthar8"]Let me have the hammer, guys. I'll do it as soon as Huntress gives the OK. My vote should be on the wagon I started.[/quote]

[Smudger]

I am also somewhat startled that Beast would follow Grim? there was no indication IMO that Grim was suspected by Beast of being scum, I would have thought that anyone from Huntress. Titus, Bowser, Sthar or myself would have been better picks to follow.

Sthar, Smudger, Elyse, Paperscraps, Huntress and Bowser.

how am I broadening the lynch pool, other than questioning why we are following a specific player or route? my point is simply that, a question, are we doing the right thing? should we believe what we are being told?

as for being cautious, yes I am, I will not contradict that, I am cautious, but I would like to think that my caution is geared to attaining results. I will also point out that I have asked questions of more than just Sthar throughout this game to date some have been answered some remain unanswered.

[Smudger]

@Smudger- do you think I'm scum?

currently you are playing a strong town game, (which I have said before) So right now you are not figuring in my mind as scum.

my lynch pool is flexible. but swayed by current thinking in thread. I acknowledge that we have some claims on the table some proved (to an extent) others not. NGR and Feel It for now will remain "Up Town" along with the SUMMONER and Beast (even though his claim is still not verified) so my pool or "Down Town Crew" are (in no particular order): Titus, Papers, Elyse, Bowser and Huntress.

[Smudger]

Why Titus?

Why not?

[Smudger]

Smudger, I don't like your flexibility. Why are you FoSing those in your list? POE on Day 2?

what? Is there a "not" missing in that sentence?

I play the game the way I feel comfortable, if I want to be flexible then I will, if I want to be cautious I will, and I will vote when I feel it is necessary and push when i want to.

Ummmm basically as I tend to play that way, I only vote when I feel there is a good case or I want to push a response, I don't just jump on wagons because they are there, I need a reason to do so. when I do I generally explain why or wait for a reaction, either way there is a reason.

[Smudger]

This conversation is making me like Smudger a lot less. He's focusing on expanding the lynch pool and cannot even articulate reasons.

where am I doing that please?

[Smudger]

Why Titus?

Why not?

This is an example. You cannot even articulate what you found suspicious about me.

because you are on my list I am widening the lynch pool and because I reply with the words "Why not" to a question from Feel It? First off that reply was off the cuff and rather flippant, for which I apologise. The reason you appeared in the listing was actually a typo from me, and I was in a foul mood when I replied to Feel It. You have a claim on the table that is only proved by the fact that Don is dead, so? that proves you had a kill action, or do you still have one? for now I will go with the flow..

(am I allowed to do that? go with the flow? or is that too cautious and flexible? [/sarcasm])

Sthar, you ask me would I lynch Elyse,

Well is that because primarily she began this game strong, and was fairly active posting content and asking relevant questions that showed active scum hunting to now, where her posts have thinned out in content and are primarily not full on hunting? If you want me to base a vote on that, then my question to you would be why?

If it is to gather information to actually narrow down the lynch pool, effectively the possibility of a mis-lynch then no, not at this time. In particular when I am beginning to think that both Bowser or Huntress are possibly more qualified to give us a better result if one of them is lynched. Why those two? well both are replacements into slots that I was suspicious of and neither has done anything to change that POV, although Huntress is actually more active.

[Smudger]

could I just remind all that I am generally VLA Friday Saturday, so I will post tomorrow with my thoughts on the game so far, it is rather surprising how, when you dont post for a few days people who are active seem to put on blinkers..... speak to you all tomorrow

[Smudger]

@Titus,

this is what I see in relation to your statement concerning my expanding the lynch pool. you are making this observation based on the simple premise that I have your name in my list of scum. because as far as I can see my lynch pool is exactly the same as most others in both size and composition. I also note that this seems to be a trait of yours to react to people who may raise concerns against you by throwing a vote at them. You are actually quite subtle about it as you do not immediately react, leaving it a few posts before doing so. Is that a bad thing, not really, but seems somewhat unwarranted in my mind.

with regard to your SCREAMING you had a kill action and was going to waste Don, I have to admit I can't see it and I have reread you a few times now. You mention your soft claim, again I can't see it. So help me out here and I might stop wondering that maybe my typo was not a mistake as this:

"to claim and NK action seems an effective way of throwing a gunsmith and tracker off your scent and rather opportunistic. whose claim came first? yours or Beasts, and was NGR before or after you? "

seems to be at the forefront of my thoughts.. yes common sense tells me that this is a probably nothing, but even still it is there.

On another note and based on a slot read as oppose to a player read I think the strongest lynch candidate right now is Bowser. neither he or the predecessors RationalMadman, KDCA have added much to the game and are classic definitions of lurking. lest look at the contribution so far:

very few posts of any content from any one of the 3. All I can see is off the wall whacky and rather inane post content from KDCA and Bowser, A handful of votes without much reason behind them. No hunting and no presuure exerted on anyone.

VOTE: Bowser

[Smudger]

while we are waiting on NRGs report, Beast who did you track?

Titus you remain wrong on your current thoughts, and I am interested to know what you did last night if you did not heal as you have said you did?

[Smudger]

Attention. Smudger

has

a gun.

From now on, I'll post a list of the people I've checked so that you guys can organise your thoughts more easily.

Spoiler: Results

N1

Feel It

does not have a gun

N2

Smudger

has a gun

ummm I don't?

[Smudger]

well I know of no reason why I would have a gun?

[Smudger]

one shot bullet proof townie

[Smudger]

There are many reasons someone would have a gun other than Mafia. I don't have any of those reasons. I know I am not scum so why You would see that I have a gun is beyond me. The only thing I can think of is a commute or redirect? The other thing that does not add up is Titus. Seriously are you all accepting this claim?

Admitted to the Don kill, so what does that tell us? Titus has or had a kill action, so?

Then a JOAT claim? convenient really to claim that. State you will "heal someone" then say you did not do it, then there is no Mafia kill and I have a gun after Titus FoS me end of D1. Beast who did you track?

[Smudger]

Titus what more than what I have given can I give?

*off topic, Grey Goose, seriously good vodka and not cheap... Classy, hope your head explodes though *

[Smudger]

Seems strange to me that you are all so gullible.... Anyway the word 'Vengeful' means what?

VOTE: Titus

[Smudger]

Hmmmm well you should all ask yourselves these 2 points:

1. Titus has pushed this supposed role of a JOAT, but other than deliver a death of a member of town has apparently and by his own admission not delivered the other promised actions,
2. I have made 2 claims and the only person who has picked the last claim up is Sthar. But one thing is puzzling, Sthar is generally very good at reading the game and commenting, so much so, most if not all town believe him town. If so then why has he missed the fact I have contradicted myself and claimed twice? Why is he not riding me hard like he did others on D1?

I think that if you look at the interaction between the two then like me you may actually become suspicious. You may also see that Stjar is definitely beginning to skip through the thread. This is a classic scum trait, remain active to begin with then slow up on input and as "certain" wagons develop push them in the right direction.

Titus is either scum and lying very well or an SK.

Sthar is looking suspicious to me and should be on everyone's list.

[Smudger]

Sthar point to exactly where I am being scummy and back that up with some proof please, an explanation as to how what I have said is in anyway scummy? because if you can't then you are not convincing are in fact trying to manipulate the vote and are talking complete rubbish.

[Smudger]

Well I always say if at first you don't succeed, then try try again, then quit. There's no need being a damn fool about it!

(Courtesy of WC Fields)

UNVOTE:

VOTE: SMUDGER

Good luck my little chickadees.,.....

[Smudger]

Oh this i dover, sorry guys been away, well played town and what Bowser said basically it was Huntress or Grim, but there you go.. This was one of 2 games I was playing at the time as mafia and, no disrespect to my buddies, but basically felt I was on my own for a good part of the time, by the time Huntress was on board my fate was sealed...

[Smudger]

good game Toomai and thanks for the opportunity...