Mini 1480: Uncreative Paradise (Game over!)

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE:

Will catch up ASAP.

@all....starting 10 day family road trip this afternoon so mostly succinct phone posting until the18th. Should be able to catch and keep up.

[havingfitz]

Why the heck would you replace in?

To play with you again?

But seriously....the game needed someone and I'll be able to follow/comment. There just won't be any wall posts.

You're welcome.

[havingfitz]

Through page 2...didn't care for Phdscar's over politeness on pg 1. Liking dagnabbit atm...not so much smargaret.
Pg 3...not liking the push on dagnabbit (JFSF) or RC's Saki vote.
OK....so page 4 and saki is starting to wear on me. Seeming evasive with all the questions as answers...don't care for the role fishing accusation. FOS saki.
Through pg 6. Saki sinking. Like JFSF's post 145.
Through pg 8...not liking Baezu's posts 176 and 177 seem forced. Why no vote on TSQ?
Through 9....eyes glazing over phone...will finish catch up later.

[havingfitz]

Sorry... meant to say thanks to Jake.

Also, welcome Havingfitz.

Would love your input on:
*RadiantCowbells
*Saki
*Smargaret
*Baezu

And everyone else but those four in particular. Thanks!

Thanks....

They are all people I have had leaning more towards scum than town. The only one atm iirc that I would add to that group is pH scar.

[havingfitz]

VOTE: baezu

[havingfitz]

Back from v/LA. Will catch up today. In the meantime....why are you voting me JFSF?

[havingfitz]

Starting catch up on page 9.

Saki calls Baezu town Baezu.

Why is Peabody questioning the wagon he is currently supporting?

I like Jake's Post 252.  He can be town.

Do we know who the Copper hydra is?  If it was stated I do not recall.

So I'm up to the D1 lynch.  I do not like the fact that Saki hammered Baezu despite beging against it most of D1 iirc.  There was still time to make an smargaret lynch happen.  smargaret is someone I suspect going into D2.

On to D2....

JFSF....why would a game not have a BG and a watcher?  It doesn't seem like an odd combo to me.  Not saying I believe RC...just don't see how that combo couldn't exist.  And you conceded this point a few posts later so nevermind.

Rainbow....why are you so confident that RC is scum?  I agree...there should have been more interest in Baezu's claim comment.  I missed it while on v/LA and probably would have called for it.  Not sure how it was anti-town per smagaret.  Baezu was one of the top two wagons and we were within 2 days of the deadline.

I like Rainbow's 390.

OK...at smargaret's claim.  I do not think there would be a JK and a BG in the same game.  I was leaning towards voting RC anyway but this claim from smargaret seals that IMO.  I have/had suspicions towards smargaret as well but I do not think she was in a position to need to claim and I doubt scum would volunteer up a claim at the point she did.  If RC were to flip town then smargaret would warrant consideration again IMO.  And I see JFSF is saying essentially the same thing in post 404.

Don't care for RC's vote on RD in post 430.  Seems chainsawish to me.  Not liking RC and becoming more suspect of Sundy.

I was just thinking about how my other suspect was Saki and then post 436 made me feel better about it....suspecting Saki.

If Saki is a cop...why would he be "acting like easy lynchbait?"  To put himself in a position where he would need to claim?

Cop-Watcher-JK-BG?  Bullshit.  I'm not seeing anyone as confirmed town at this point.  Leaning town on smargaret because I believe her claim the most.  Not liking Saki claim for reasons above.  A fake claim to get another day of existence for him and his buddies is worth a fakeclaim.

Re: JFSF post 499...WTF...you'd rather lynch me?  Still trying to make me appear? Get over the v/LA. I'm back and caught up.

I think RC should go but I can deal with another day for him.  Who I really think should go is Saki.  Why does a cop try to put themself in a position to have to claim?  Why would a player hammer someone they had a town meta read on all D1?  And WTF would Saki investigate Sundy when the last two players he was trying to get lynched on D1 were  PHDscar and smargaret?  He only moved off smargaret to hammer his town read.  So why not investigate smargaret?  Bullshit.

VOTE: Saki

[havingfitz]

I like my concerns on Saki. If he us telling the truth he doesn't make it past tonight but at least Sundy is clear. I don't believe all the claims with Saki and RC being less believable IMO than smarg.

Your pool of everyone else is all the people I have less suspicion towards. If I was going to vote someone who hadn't claimed it would probably be PhDscar....or perhaps Copper.

[havingfitz]

I don't want to set up speculate too much. I'm just comfortable in the belief that of our 4 claims...at least one is false. And of the three still unconfirmed...I lean towards believing smarg. That leaves me with RC or Saki and Saki's play is more suspect atm for seasons I have voiced.

[havingfitz]

To save Sundy and facilitate a mislynch

What are the negatives to Saki's claim? The only way he or Sundy/Nacho are confirmed is if Saki dies and flips town. Then we know Nacho is town. Otherwise it's still up for doubt. I can see the advantage to waiting one more day but not sure who I would go for. I'd need to look at some ISOs and previous cases.

What about the three points wrt Saki that I bring up? You don't see anything wrong with them?

P.edit ^ to JFSF

and how about you telling us (Saki) if you believe all the claims up to this point?

[havingfitz]

What did their claims have to do with you claiming? Weren't you claiming just to save Sundy?

So you think all 4 claims are legit? Especially RC's? So that means of all the claims the one you believed least is smarg's?

[havingfitz]

Do actually what? See the problems I see?

[havingfitz]

OK...what are they? Talk me off my suspicions.

[havingfitz]

Well JFSF...I see you've taken your big boy pants back off (assuming they were ever on).

You've had unnecessary attitude towards me since I replaced in and it's unwarranted and unsportsmanlike. Please try not being such a tool

I'll respond to your game related points asap.

[havingfitz]

1. Saki did not have time to convince 2 people to change their opinions on Smarg in less than 3 hours. That was how much time we had until deadline. (This is why i hate waiting until deadlines to lynch people, players should not have to be forced to choose)

Why was it Saki's job to avoid a no lynch?  Assuming we would have even got to that point?  Especially when Saki was so confident that Baezu was town?  Why hammer someone you are confident is town?  I wouldn't as town.  If there is going to be a mislynch scum should have to work for it.
 

2. I don't see how post 436 is scummy at all, he's disagreeing with a lynch and asking a towny question (is there any change that RC is town, the answer is absolutely yes there is a chance, although a very minor one)

This wasn't really one of my main points against Saki…I just found it interesting/suspect he was defending others I had suspicions towards.
 

3. There is a perfectly good reasons why saki as cop would act scummy on purpose. The goal of a cop is to survive as long as possible. Most logical players will ignore the people who are acting like easy lynchbait and scum won't kill them. It's win/win

 
Acting scummy got Saki all the way to an early L-1 on D1.  What cop wants to put themselves in that position?  And why did he not claim there…on the verge of getting lynched?  Instead…he waits until Sundy is at L-4…L-4!!!  And that’s the time to claim?  Why claim then?  Why not let a few more people join the Sundy wagon to help flush out a few more suspects?  If he had an innocent on Sundy claiming with only 3 votes on him was a wasted opportunity.
 

4. Saki tried to speak out against the lynch, claiming to stop it was his next step. Maybe he did it prematurely but I don't see scum motivation behind it and I certainly don't think saki as scum would fake claim to protect his partner (in fact I don't think any player would be that dumb). 

Like I said…what is the negative to his claim?  Sundy’s wagon died.  No one seems interested in Saki’s wagon (except me).  And if they both live to tomorrow I’m sure creative explanations can be concocted.
 
You’ve also ignored the point I made about WTF did Saki investigate Sundy when his more recent D1 suspects had been smargaret and PhDscar?  The investigation doesn’t make sense IMO.    
 

Additionally back to point 1, you were the one who put us in the position of lynching baezu over someone else, you didn't even provide any input as to why you chose to vote baezu over smar considering you said you thought both of them were scummy earlier.
The bottom line is nothing really looks like scum intent to me. I am going to beat this dead horse again but if you had not been on V/LA things could have gone differently. The fact is you said you would be able to catch up and keep up but that proved to be an outright lie, at least from my pov. I see no evidence that you were ever "caught up" and I don't see where you ever chimed in to the ongoing discussions. 
 
I just hope for your sake you are scum this game, cause that's a fucking embarrassment to do that to the rest of town. You helped nobody. I'd have rather played with a vacant slot

You can shove my outright lie up your posterior  ;)    Oh wait, you’re safe…there was no outright lie.  I thought I would be more active while on v/LA and it didn’t happen.  I suspected Baezu so I voted him.  I missed his mention of claiming…as did everyone else apparently before he died…including you.  Otherwise I might have gone for smargaret.  But if she is telling the truth that’s just as well I didn’t vote her either.  And once the lynch occurred…3 RL days break for night and a couple of RL days missed to start D2 didn’t affect jack.   I don’t have and never have had an issue playing with you and as far as I can recall from our last game….which you replaced into despite my presence btw…there were no problems.  I'm off v/LA so try to get over it. 
 
As for this game…as I believe I have already indicated…I still suspect Saki but would be willing to look over other non-PR claimed options.  Even though I do not believe all of the claims.
 
p.edit to 517  Why shouldn't I be offended at being called an outright liar along with your other behavior/comments towards me since I joined?  Silly me.  My suspicions of Saki have merit in my opinion. 

[havingfitz]

(which DIRECTLY contradicts something Fitz says in 526 BTW)

To what specifically are you referring?

(besides Jake, you're doing good work on Fitz)

How so? I assume you means his arguements against my Saki suspicions...which I see no merit to (his arguements). If you mean he is doing good scum hunting against me, how so? V/LA whinging does not a case make.


UNVOTE: . Looks like the claimers are avoiding the noose today. I'm between PhDscar and Copper mostly due to poe atm vs town reads.

[havingfitz]

at calling me fence sitting when I stated who I had suspicions towards and voted who I suspected the most.

And I have made the same info clear today

Fence sitting...

[havingfitz]

RC...why don't you just agree to guard Saki. Town can try to sort out what to do with all you claimers (left) afterwards.

[havingfitz]

VOTE: PhDScar

[havingfitz]

So fitz/RC are obvious buddies

If I'm scum you aren't an idiot.

I do not believe RC's claim and I do not believe Saki's claim. ISO me. But for the sake of letting things work themselves out...or getting a bit clearer...I'm ok with waiting a night. If Saki IS telling the truth perhaps he gets another result. If he dies somehow...we know Nacho is town and we can go for RC tomorrow. Between PhD and Copper I am less suspicious of Copper and PoE (subtracting claims and town reads) leaves me with PhD.

[havingfitz]

Why is RC a must lynch today ICE? If he refuses to commit to bodyguarding Saki tonight I'm fine with voting him. But if he is willing to cooperate....why not go with it?

[havingfitz]

oh and why investigate sundy over one of your scum reads?

Too funny....you (and Saki) bring up a point against Peabody's claim of investigating Sundy (which I would like to hear as well) while both you and Saki both ignore it when I bring it up towards Saki. That comes off by both of you as ignoring what you don't want to address.

Saki...I didn't believe your claim to begin with and now that we have another cop claim I get a 1v1 situation in which I totally suspect you.

VOTE: Saki

Assuming Saki is the lynch...if he flips scum RC had better fcuking guard Peobody. If Saki flips town...RC looks bad but should at least claim to protect smarg who should probably JK Peabody. IMO.

Saki...your spiel about claiming 2-shot vs full cop to get RC to guard you makes no sense...why would you be more inclined to get guarded if you have 1 investigation or unlimited? BS.

And JFSF questioning Peobody's claim when he didn't bat at eye when Saki claimed is suspect as hell IMO. There went my town read on sunshine.

Saki needs to go.

Oh and also...if Peobody is fake claiming, after he is lynched tomorrow RC would be at the top of the lynch list IMO.

[havingfitz]

Plus Peabody had 2 other people as definite scum reads yet he investigated someone who is a null read. That's why I asked him that question.

As did Saki...which I pointed out more than once and that went ignored by you and Saki.

What reason would Peabody scum have to counter? To save RC? All that would do is extend RCs life one day while implicating Peabody as well.

But by the same token (thinking out loud)...it makes no sense for Saki to have claimed to protect Sundy.

Either way....we've arrived at a 50/50 chance of hitting scum. Decent odds. Saki has been sketchy as hell this game so he gets my vote. If he flips scum my vote is on JFSF tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

And at least Nacho is now confirmed town.

[havingfitz]

You still cool with Ice and Copper lynches Jake? Just curious.....

[havingfitz]

P.edit'd to but you were the only person who posted before you said this.

no havingfitz and you posted right before that post and havingfitz asked me if I would consider lynching someone else.

That question doesn't even make sense to ask because why throw ice & cooper's name out in the first place when it's obvious we aren't lynching either of those 2 today? Additionally I am pretty sure I never said I was interested in lynching copper.

I asked if you were still cool with their lynches. Earlier you indicated as much with Ice and suggested as much with Copper when you questioned Peabody about his Copper unvote and said you could actually see Copper being scum. I realize neither of them is today's lynch and I was advocating that. I just want to see if they are still among your pool of suspects.

I can't recall being cc'd though I may have. Regardless...what does it matter here? No one is cc'ing me

And in Post 649 you said Sundy and Peabody but you meant Saki. It is a reasonable question to ask someone...which I did to Saki and he ignored...and which I brought up as one of many issues with Saki and you ignored. But now you feel compelled to ask Peabody.......which he promptly answered. Point is...I suspect Saki more than Peabody so today's choice is an easy one.

[havingfitz]

you're cc'ed now!

"You're scum!" "No...you're scum!" doesn't count.

[havingfitz]

@Nacho...oh...ok.

@Jake...Fine...he ignored the point...actually all the points iirc. Which he essentially admits to above.

If I was a cop and was counter claimed my response would depend on the game state. It would not necessarily mean an immediate reveal. I might hold off for more info and to see how others play off the claim. I see no problem with Peabody waiting a bit. Why do you think he would cc? He wasn't in danger. If it was to save RC it just condemned them both. I didn't believe Saki to begin with so the Peabody claim works for me. Plus we more than likely have a cleared player in Nacho. So all is well.

Saki today and you tomorrow

[havingfitz]

Plus you already admitted you are scum

Zzzzzzzzz

[havingfitz]

Why do you think he would cc? He wasn't in danger.

If RC is town: to stop the bodyguard who was going to get lynched from getting lynched so he would be able to shoot the jailkeeper he was going to shoot anyways or kill the cop he was going to kill anyways.

if RC is scum: to save him from being lynched for one more day so that they could die together.

?

Those reasons are weak.

[havingfitz]

Real CC does it immediately.

Not necessarily. Would you Day 1? Or Day 2 if the wagon was heading towards a N1 guilty result?

P.edit to Nacho...some may have missed it.

[havingfitz]

AND a believable neighborizer claim.

That is not indicative of alignment for either of its participants.

[havingfitz]

no but my play proves I am town

[havingfitz]

Okay so reading all of this if Peabody is town (I'm almost 100% sure he is) then RC, Havingfitz, and Jake are town and Saki is scum.

How do you get Jake town if Peabody is town

[havingfitz]

B-bye.

[havingfitz]

if saki flips cop, tomorrow peabody and the next day nacho.

Even though Saki got an innocent on Nacho(Sundy)?

[havingfitz]

Why did Nacho warrant suspicion? Doesn't seem like a lot of effort went into that train of thought.

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Lucky

And Derpy...you really should put the rulebook down. This is a game and being a rule-cop just makes one a tool...and most likely a hypocrite. Goosfraba.

[havingfitz]

^ and I don't know what the votecount is but not too bothered about it.

[havingfitz]

@ fitz - I didnt ask for your opinion. Ice should be mod-killed.

I don't recall anyone asking for yours either. Which was kind of my point.

[havingfitz]

OK...back to the game. More lucky votes please.

[havingfitz]

^ while we're on mod hold.....agreed.

Plus I'm only 45 minutes outside of Boston

[havingfitz]

vote: ice

Mod confirmed scum

How so?

[havingfitz]

don't you fucking tell me to shut up.

And seriously...whether you or Ice are town or scum is beside the point....^^^^ isn't necessary.

[havingfitz]

Do you have any reasons to suspect Ice beyond the asinine "mod confirmed" schtick?

Agreed people need to get in here.

Back to D1 suspect fttb.

VOTE: PhDScar

[havingfitz]

Well I'm not without suspicions towards Ice (your mod bit excluded).

What's your view on PhD?

[havingfitz]

Just perusing votes...without looking at the actual posts and their context...I'm a bit less suspect of Ice than before I looked. I still however like PhD slot as a suspect. I also don't think Jake is clear. Fmpov I think both scum are most likely in PhD, Copper, Jake, Rainbow...with potential bussers in Ice and DN. I'll look more later.

[havingfitz]

Rainbow....why do you think scum have daytalk?

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE:

I ISOd PhD and have come down a bit on my suspicions of him.

[havingfitz]

not liking that I asked for a case from you and you back off...

I ISOd PhD independently of your "request" to see his interactions with the Saki slot. It made me question my suspicion towards him...which looking back were mostly poe.

[havingfitz]

Needs to speak the fuck up: Fitz

I could care less.

Because the neighbor QT has daytalk.

Those two things usually synch up. If there is no scum-QT it basically confirms Jake as town though

If something doesn't ALWAYS happen then it's not worth speculating about. And how are you ever going t know if there is "no scum-QT" to basically confirm Jake? You can't. So it's not worth talking about. Something something about set up speculation.

[havingfitz]

So ask someone to claim then

[havingfitz]

should fitz claim next?

Fine with me....

VT

Popcorn to next person to post who hasn't claimed yet.

[havingfitz]

Post weekend prod dodge. Will try to get head back into the game asap.

[havingfitz]

Fizz/Cooper are who I am leaning on scum at the moment but this is

based off little evidence or research

.

Excellent

It's been nearly 3 full days without the mod posting and people are over due for prods.

The mod is slacking a bit but he did indicate less than 24 hours ago that he had done prods.

VOTE: Copper

Ice would probably be my alternate choice atm.

Also....not sure what to make of all the town power vice a 1shot Rolecop. Just based on the town PRs that have flipped I would say scum must have some extra strength...which IMO means Nacho might not be 100% clear....though I still lean town on him.

[havingfitz]

I suspect Copper more and he has more votes.

[havingfitz]

Ice...what part of "not sure what to make of all the town power vice a 1 shot Rolecop" leads you to believe that I "totally buy in to the fact" of their being 5 power roles in the town?  Because I do not "totally" buy in to that.  It does seem like a lot of town power to me but without knowing what mafia has....who knows?  Only having a 1 shot Rolecop could be a reflection on there being a lot of town PRs.  I.e. Saki could have been a one shot RC because he had decent chance of hitting a town PR.

As for your case on Jake...while I am absolutely not a fan of how Jake has played in this game (wrt sportsmanship...not actual mafia play), he is not near the top of my list of suspects.  The worst thing he has going for him IMO is that he is a Neighborizor. 

Simply put, I find your Jake case lacking. 

You use PR POE on Jake because you believe DN for some reason.  This presumes one of them is not telling the truth (set up spec) and that since "most people" have DN in their scum pool he would never be NK'd.  How you get that DN is in "most people's" lynch pool is beyond me.  He's only had 1 vote on him this entire game.  That said...I actually think claiming BG makes less sense coming from town...a town player not under any threat.  What good does claiming BG do for town?  If he is telling the truth, scum will not be wasting any kills on him.  = Good for scum.  And if he is scum....it just throws more confusion into things.  And since I don't have any recollections of really suspecting the DN slot (at least prior to the BG claim) I am reluctant to suspect it for that reason alone.

As to Jake's reaction to the mod not killing you, that just seems like a self licking wifom cone given that he suspects you because the mod didn't kill you and now you suspect him becuse he thought the mod should kill you.  wtf? 

And as for his getting under your skin...I find this a believeable reaction from JFSF..especially if any of his previous personas are who I believe it to be. 

Your case on Jake sucks IMO which is why it doesn't have support atm.

[havingfitz]

Here....catching up....

[havingfitz]

i am confirmed town as fuck

As am I. But why are you?

Leaning Ice.

[havingfitz]

Don't be concerned. I've lost touch with this game (RL busy). I had forgotten the result on you. Yes...you are finally confirmed. More so than me.


So Ice....why so adament it's Nacho

[havingfitz]

Or perhaps I misread 1080. Who are you suspecting Ice?

[havingfitz]

OK...getting my bearings straight after long absence. I need to look at PhD closer (think I already have before) but I think it would have been pretty bassackwards for PhD scum to kill the only other person off the Copper lynch.

Slight retraction of my earlier Ice lean. Need to read up.

[havingfitz]

OK...Nacho is town. I think RBD is town. Ice has been firmly on both scum lynches. As has DN...though not ready to clear yet.

PoE and vca have me back where I've been a few times already...

VOTE: PhDScar

[havingfitz]

Yay.