Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Ok I made notes on my phone last night as I was reading but it was late and I was drifting off. I'll try to make sense of them though. The bolded things are what I wrote down in my phone.
Thor's "speedlynch"
Thor eventually touched on this but I thought that the argument against him that stated he was calling for a speedlynch was really dumb. It's not like a speedlynch would actually happen. It's just something to emphasize his read on the player.
Slandaar's reach on tool
Slandaar's original case on tool was a really big stretch and Slandaar usually makes big openings. This game I was disappointed and found his initial push bad, which is unlike him. In the whole Thor-Slandaar-Albert debate, I think there's at least one scum, and I was thinking it was Slandaar until recently. I'll talk more about that later.
Axxle using the word barometer
This is probably dumb but I found it odd that after Thor used the word barometer to gauge newbiness, Axxle also used it. I don't know if he's subtly aligning his play to Thor or it was just a word in his mind.
Garmr's "you guys want more fine"
I really didn't like this at all. You should always have your reads out on the table. When something asks you for more and you go "ugh fine" and churn out some content, it's scummy.
Garmr 173 scumslip
Looking back this isn't as bad as I thought it was. Here's the post:
I thought the "even as town" bit was weird. It's like he's saying "I break down as scum but I even do it as town" which insinuates he's scum.In post 173, Garmr wrote:I'm trying to engage in one on one this round but i'm kinda failing. I'm not the best at defending myself from multiple people either asI tend to break down even as townAlbert and T-cold know this from past experience with me.
Maxous 193 town
I don't know what this is since 193 is by Macros so ignore this.
Wait I think I meant 197. I liked how Maxous pointed out that Garmr was voting his weakest read and thought that was insightful.
227 why no Ice
In TCold's post, he says that Garmr's wagon is justified and the right lynch. Ice has literally the exact opposite feelings. I found it weird that TCold didn't address Ice at all there.
As far as the Albert-Thor-Slandaar trifecta battle royale, I thought Slandaar was scum for his weak reasoning but Albert's "lol jk the case on you is fake. You should be scared of me though" bugs me the wrong way. It's like he realized he was wrong and came up with that after the fact. I also dislike his subsequent insistence that Thor is scummy for overreacting in his response? If he didn't jump on it, it would be scummy, so it's kind of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. Also, I think it was Sir Bastion who pointed out how Albert didn't question those who followed his fake case on Thor. That's a very good point.
Ice, Maxous, Thor, tool, and Sir Bastion are my strongest townreads.
Albert, Garmr, TCold, and Slandaar are my strongest scumreads.
Everyone else is some shade of null.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Albert B. Rampage-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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I literally just reread the post where Thor said it was a misrep. That's what he's talking about.
And no, it's not just an opinion. When you say that someone is doing something he's not, it's a misrep. That's like saying "Obama caused the Holocaust". "What? That's a complete misrepresentation of his actions." "No it's my opinion." That's silly.-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Garmr's last few posts have me really unnerved. I don't like them and I feel like he's hiding behind this newb facade and avoiding commenting on the pressing issues. He just overreacts to them emotionally (example: headdesk that made his head bleed) but doesn't say if it's scummy or whatnot.
I have townreads on both of them, but gun to my head, Ice. And that's because Bastion basically replicates my thought processes in his posts, which means I know it's coming from a town PoV.In post 547, Albert B. Rampage wrote:@Elyse and Thor
Assume I'm town. Who is scummier between IceNinja and Sir Bastion?
Your argument of you doing your "fake case" to break Thor's hold on the game is A) contradictory and B) nonsensical.
A. You already said that you did the fake case to show Thor how easily you could run him up and get his lynch going. This quote in particular:
makes it look like you weren't faking and came up with that after you realized your case wasn't good.In post 254, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Slandaar; are you ready to lynch Thor, or do you think you need more discussion to make up your mind before fully committing to him hanging? No getting cold feet once this bandwagon takes off.
B. Thor was not the town leader in any way and in fact had suspicions on him. As Bastion touched on, your fake case helped him if anything because it took the heat off of him and put it (understandably) onto you. This is good if he is town but scary if he is scum.
So yeah I'm ready to lynch this guy once the lurkers post.-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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@ABR
By nonsensical I mean logically nonsensical, not "it doesn't make sense to me."
I want to unvote you. I really do. But I'm just not confident enough to move onto Thor. I do think that he has been tunneling on you/Slandaar way too much, but then again, Slandaar has literally only talked about Thor this whole entire time. I don't think they are scum together, so is that a real scumtell?
And I do have some qualms with what you are saying. Almost everything you say is WIFOM. Do you really expect me to believe you when you say you wouldn't do x as scum just because you say so? The fact that you are aware of these things negates it even further.
One thing that keeps bugging me is that you are now saying you dismantled the wagon on Thor because you had doubts. Before, you said it was to show Thor that you could run him up and that he should be scared of you. Which is it?-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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In post 627, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Town is much more liberal with their votes than that.
No. I'm keeping my vote on you because you so desperately want it off of you. Scum get antsy with votes on them. A "vanilla townie" as you claim you are shouldn't. Your reaction to me keeping my vote on you is very scummy, so I am pleased with my decision.In post 629, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I'm not liking Elyse right now. Town would unvote. It's silly to try to keep a vote on after a claim, while still waiting for replacements to catch up. It's like secretly wishing for a quicklynch or something. Completely closed-minded to being wrong. It's scummy.
I am not closed-minded either. I literally said "let me mull over it a little more and see what the replacements say".-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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VOTE: ThorIn post 736, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Albert, if you really are town, I think Thor is the person town should look into if I die tonight.
Too easy.
I am also deeply sorry for being wrong about Thor. I feel retarded and Albert is probably waving his fist at me in the dead QT.-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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That's funny since other people didn't (and still aren't) seeing it.In post 832, Garmr wrote:I'm not really comfortable with Elyse. It was pretty easy to see that Thor was targeted by f-16 and most players gave her townie points for if anyone else did it before her would you of still viewed elyse the same way.
On day 2 Elyse is quick to label people scum as soon as she as people start accepting her as town this is a change from her day 1 play where she would analyse things and not just blurt out stuff. This change of consistency worries me. I still think maybe waiting 1 day or so is better but this may just be difference of opinions.
I don't think I should be conftown because of it, but yes, I do deserve credit. I don't see why a scum partner would do it. It wasn't as conspicuous as you make it out to be.
You are trying to discredit me and are nervous that as townies are townreading each other, it leaves scum (you) in a hard place.-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Yeah same. I'm thinking he's scum #3 trying to save himself by making some dumb remark.
P-edit:
I see what you are saying about fitz being suspicious of ICE yesterday but I don't get the part when you say "but then he could have just been suspicious of ICE and received a report of a town-aligned role during night one." What do you mean by that?-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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ICE, how many games have you played in?
I feel like you are faking ignorance with not knowing (and not bothering to look up as Slandaar pointed out) what a hider is and conjuring up this huge theory about scum's daytalk capabilities.
If you look on the wiki, an encryptor is "a role that allows people who can converse with it to talk during the Day phase. Otherwise, they are restricted to speaking during the Night phase."
The reason for an encryptor over just giving the scum daytalk is (I'm guessing) because scum has to be more methodical with who they kill and who they bus/buddy up to. Daytalk dies with Thor, I'm assuming, so it's more important for scum to keep him alive than a regular goon or whatever.
You are approaching 4 years on-site and you seem competent and analytical, so I'm having a hard time believing that you really don't know about these things. It seems like you are trying to pass off the "too dumb to be scum" card. (Dumb being about the setup, not your actual intelligence)-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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I don't think he would spent LITERALLY the entire Day 1 of this game tunneling on his scumpartner. Do you honestly believe that?In post 1005, toolenduso wrote:@Slandaar: From scum's point of view, there was no way to know whether fitz was a cop or not. Unless the mafia had a cop, fitz was just another townie to them. After the fact, yeah, I'm sure they were happy they killed a town PR. But during the night, how were they supposed to know?
@Elyse: Why don't you think Slandaar is scum? And why do you still have your vote on ICE?
My vote is still on ICE because I didn't think there was an interest in a Skelda wagon but ok.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Skelda-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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If Slandaar scumslipped, why aren't you voting him?In post 1013, toolenduso wrote:Other than that, what does everyone think about the possibility that Slandaar made a scumslip when he said the reason fitz was nightkilled was because he was the cop?
In order to make that statement, Slandaar had to assume the scum either knew or had a very good idea that fitz was the cop. He wrote it into a post with what looked like certainty, which makes me wonder if he is scum who forgot to think like town while writing a post and gave the real reason scum killed fitz rather than the reason a townie would think scum killed fitz.-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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That's a high-risk high-reward situation that seems silly to do on D1 with no danger on either of them.In post 1019, toolenduso wrote:
Why wouldn't he? He's now pointing to that tunneling as evidence of him being town, so we know it's useful to him that he tunneled on Thor so much.In post 1015, Elyse wrote: I don't think he would spent LITERALLY the entire Day 1 of this game tunneling on his scumpartner. Do you honestly believe that?-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Meh I think having Slandaar and ICE alive going into tomorrow is going to cause more of the he-said-she-said nonsense that has been intoxicating this thread. (No way scum is killing either one at this point, if either is even town)
So once everyone gets their thoughts in and ICE claims, I'll probably hammer.
Intent to hammer.-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Welp.
This is MyLo.
Despite what ICE said, I don't think Slandaar is scum. I could be wrong, because I think there was a reason Sir Bastion was killed instead of me. We were both pretty strong townreads, so I'm going to look back and see the differences between our own reads.
I refuse to lynch tool today. He is my one strong townread that I will take with me to the end.
This leaves {zakk, Skelda, Garmr}
Honestly, Skelda is the scummiest to me. I have to look back at the strength of his apparent townslip, because that's the only thing giving me doubt with this read. He's been lurky, has had bad content when he actually posts content, and he is wishy-washy, ESPECIALLY towards the end of the day.
Zakk could be scum as well. He always keeps his options open and I never got townvibes from him at all.
Garmr gave me both scum and town vibes, and he's an obvious newb. I feel like the daytalk aspect helps him a bit since he wouldn't be so clueless with it, IMO, but there's definitely a chance he's scum.
However, we need to massclaim before we start this, so:
Vanilla Townie.-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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No offense, zakk, but that analysis was pretty bad.
Why would the scum kill hinge upon you? Again, not to sound rude, but do you think you're important enough for scum to base their NK on how you would react? I don't think anyone is that important, and if the scumteam believed that truly, why wouldn't they just kill you? I think the scumteam was either aiming for a PR or just trying to confuse us because tool and I were on almost everyone's town list. I (stupidly) already claimed VT and idk why they didn't kill tool but I'm pretty sure he's town so I don't really care.
It seems to me like a bs reason not to vote Garmr.
And suddenly, a zakk/Garmr scumteam makes perfect sense.-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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Oh because I'm not 100% sure you're scum and I don't want to be rude, that makes me scum? Really?
Also you should really unvote me if you are town because scum can quick hammer me.
P-edit:
I'm on my phone and won't be able to respond properly until tomorrow but you're already resorting to the "You're scum!" argument which is really weak.-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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I'm not trying to win you over to my side. I think you're scum! And I'm proving how bad your case is to the others.In post 1177, zakk wrote:
Ooooh. Ouch. Sorry, you just put the first nail in your own coffin.In post 1173, Elyse wrote:No offense, zakk, but that analysis was pretty bad.
Why would the scum kill hinge upon you? Again,not to sound rude, but do you think you're important enough for scum to base their NK on how you would react? I don't think anyone is that important, and if the scumteam believed that truly, why wouldn't they just kill you? I think the scumteam was either aiming for a PR or just trying to confuse us because tool and I were on almost everyone's town list. I (stupidly) already claimed VT and idk why they didn't kill tool but I'm pretty sure he's town so I don't really care.
It seems to me like a bs reason not to vote Garmr.
And suddenly, azakk/Garmr scumteammakes perfect sense.
How? I'll tell you how.
You're trying to convince me that you're right. You're trying to introduce doubts into my head about my own theories. You're trying to win me over to your side by being self deprecating, and by being polite.
I'm trying to be nice. You want me to be a bitch? I will. Rawr. Be ready.In post 1177, zakk wrote: Why? Because you know I'm town. If you didn't, you wouldn't bother using phrases like "no offense but I think that's pretty bad", you would just say "You're scum. And therefore your argument is false"
So you were just putting it out there for shits and giggles? Come on now.In post 1180, zakk wrote:
I'm not reaching. I'm just putting numbers out there.In post 1176, Elyse wrote:When that's a proven scumtell, come back to me.
You're reaching a lot here and you didn't even address my points against your "revelation".
Thor is the type of player who wouldn't hesitate to bus his buddy anyway. That means nothing.
I didn't ever imply it was a proven scumtell, though your immediate defensiveness IS actually a pretty reliable scumtell, in my experience.
No, he got voted out because a hider hid behind him and died. And guess who pointed that out? Me.In post 1180, zakk wrote: And I am pretty sure I know what type of a player Thor is. He uses humor and deflection to try to get what he wants. Only this time, there seemed to be a lot of strong personalities in the game, and people didn't want to put up with his stuff, so he got a little out of control and flailed a little too much and got voted out early.
This is what I mean by the "you're scum argument". Lol it's so bad it hurts.In post 1180, zakk wrote: And anyway, your opinion on what type of player Thor is, is pretty moot. Why? Because you're scum.
Is this a joke? I am addressing your points and you are ignoring mine! Seriously, you are out of your mind! I'm not discrediting you as a person, but discrediting your arguments because they are incredibly weak.In post 1180, zakk wrote: You just did the exact same thing Thor did ALL FREAKING GAME. He didn't address points as they were brought up. He just flipped the table (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ and kept right on trucking. But he also called into question the authority/credibility of the person he was dealing with, almost without exception. And you're now doing the exact same thing.-
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In post 1187, zakk wrote:
Here's what I see:In post 1160, Elyse wrote:Um ok?
I thought Slandaar was probtown but he was very lynchable, especially with tool breathing down his neck.No idea why scum killed him.
Ok so if one person in {Garmr, Skelda, zakk} has a PR then we win because we have the scumteam in the VTs.
Everyone claim in your next post.
A. distancing from being scum -- "I have no idea why scum would do thaaaat!" is code for "Look at me, I'm TOTALLY town you guys!"
IS THIS A JOKE?In post 1157, Skelda wrote:Seems like a weird choice of who to kill.In post 1158, Garmr wrote:I was kinda expecting tool to be killed. We should probably be careful with our votes it's mylo.In post 1159, toolenduso wrote:SERIOUSLY?
...you suck so hard, scum. I spent four days on my book and now it doesn't even make sense to post it.
EVERY SINGLE PLAYER INCLUDING YOU ACTED BAFFLED TOWARD THE SLANDAAR KILL. But it only applies to me?In post 1162, zakk wrote:
Sadly I'm not a PR.In post 1160, Elyse wrote:Um ok?
I thought Slandaar was probtown but he was very lynchable, especially with tool breathing down his neck. No idea why scum killed him.
Ok so if one person in {Garmr, Skelda, zakk} has a PR then we win because we have the scumteam in the VTs.
Everyone claim in your next post.
The Slandaar kill was rather confusing, but I guess he had just about outlived his usefulness to scum.
What's worth looking at will be his suspicions following ICEninja. Not saying they're right, but it'll be useful.
YOU ALWAYS MASSCLAIM IN LYLO. ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS RIGHT NOW? I'm not "power role hunting" like some covert operation: I'm openly asking everyone to claim so we can narrow down the scumpool. And guess what? YOU complied. If you had such a problem with it, then WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU CLAIM?In post 1162, zakk wrote: B. power role hunting -- asking other people to claim, which not only distracts from scumhunting and puts attention on an artificial construct, but is also completely useless for townies and horribly useful for scum, under the thin veneer of having town's best interests at heart.-
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I'M TOWN. This is ludacris. It certainly DOES matter what tool thinks. You are trying to manipulate him into thinking I'm scum and it's really obvious.In post 1205, zakk wrote:Process of elimination.
I'm not scum. You're not scum.
It doesn't matter if you THINK Elyse is scum or not if she is. And she is.
So what say we stop talking about your feelings, and get down to brass tacks?
You will need to convince me that Garmr is scum without a doubt, or else you'll have to agree to lynching Elyse.
And wtf is with "you'll need to convince me Garmr is scum or else you have to lynch Elyse"??? You are forcing him into two positions he doesn't need to take. What if he wants to vote for you or Skelda? Are those not options because YOU say so?
Lastly, not responding to my points because they're concerned with self-preservation is bullshit and ridiculously scummy. I'm explaining why you're wrong and you're ignoring me. How does that make ANY sense?-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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I'm living in the land where I POINTED OUT F16's BREADCRUMB AND GOT HIM LYNCHED BY MYSELF.
I'm not posting über strong cases on Garmr and Skelda because I don't want to and you're probably scum so I'm making a case on town in that case. I also want Skelda to claim first.
Also, are you seriously trying to twist that me acting protown makes me scum?!?!?! That's actually ridiculous. "Scum try to seem town so she's scum." That's so stupid and wrong.
Lastly
WHY WON'T YOU RESPOND TO MY OTHER POINTS DIRECTLY DISPROVING YOUR CASE ON ME?
This bullshit is fine but I have to post über strong cases on two people I'm not sure are scum?zakk wrote:
He feels really genuine to me. I don't really know how to explain it. It's just a gut feeling mostly.In post 1209, toolenduso wrote:Thank you. Now, zakk, why do you think Garmr is town? And Garmr, why do you think zakk is town?
And that usually is enough for me.
Am I the only one seeing how retarded this is? That along with zakk trying to make Skelda and I the only lynch options with no one else's approval.-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
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How is that ANY different from what I'm doing?In post 1220, zakk wrote:
I'm trying to convince him. There's a difference. A rather large difference.In post 1210, Elyse wrote:
I'M TOWN. This is ludacris. It certainly DOES matter what tool thinks. You are trying to manipulate him into thinking I'm scum and it's really obvious.In post 1205, zakk wrote:Process of elimination.
I'm not scum. You're not scum.
It doesn't matter if you THINK Elyse is scum or not if she is. And she is.
So what say we stop talking about your feelings, and get down to brass tacks?
You will need to convince me that Garmr is scum without a doubt, or else you'll have to agree to lynching Elyse.
And no. Convincing someone is coming up with strong arguments, not forcing your views down their throat as they only ones available.
No, the scumteam should not be Garmr and Skelda. You want to know why?In post 1220, zakk wrote:
He knows that 2 of 5 are scum. He knows who 1 of the townies are (himself). Therefore, it's 50/50 to him, he's just got to pick the right 2 of the remaining 4. Okay good, now that's out of the way.In post 1210, Elyse wrote:And wtf is with "you'll need to convince me Garmr is scum or else you have to lynch Elyse"??? You are forcing him into two positions he doesn't need to take. What if he wants to vote for you or Skelda? Are those not options because YOU say so?
So, out of you, Skelda, and Garmr, there are 2 scum. And it's not Garmr, even though tool thinks it is. In your eyes, the scum should be Garmr and Skelda, no questions asked.
But you're still trying to push other angles because you know if things get narrowed down, you lose.I THINK YOU ARE SCUM
Look at you saying "no offense" just like me before. You must be scum!!!In post 1220, zakk wrote:
I have the luxury of being ridiculously scummy because I'm town and everyone knows it.In post 1210, Elyse wrote:Lastly, not responding to my points because they're concerned with self-preservation is bullshit and ridiculously scummy. I'm explaining why you're wrong and you're ignoring me. How does that make ANY sense?
I intend to play that angle as much as I can. No offense.
You are most certainly NOT town and no one knows it.
What if I don't think he's scum? What if I think it's you/Skelda?In post 1220, zakk wrote:In post 1221, zakk wrote:Elyse, if you're not scum, and/or if you don't want to be lynched, you're going to have to convince me of Garmr's guilt. That's pretty much all there is to it.
You are forcing me into a position that I don't want to take and it's extremely scummy.-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6363
- Joined: February 8, 2013
Reasons for zakk scum:
1. Votes in LyLo without everyone checking in and leaves me open to a quickhammer. Scum obviously have no problems with this.
2. Says it is scummy for me to ask for a massclaim but claimed beforehand. He just changed his position to make me look bad.
3. Refuses to respond to my posts concerning his case on me because "I'm scum and they are concerned with self-preservation."
4. Forces people into false scenarios. (You have to post uber strong cases on Garmr/Skelda or you die, Convince me Garmr is scum or you die, You have to convince me Garmr is scum or you have to lynch Elyse, etc.)
5. Comes out of his lurksack in LYLO???? Skelda is at least being consistent lurky but zakk's complete change in attitude makes me think he is just going for a quick mislynch to win the game. His analysis of "Skelda and Elyse are scum because I haven't pushed them" is terrible. He obviously thought that up in the QT and then used it as an excuse to push a mislynch on me. (Notice how he's going after me and not Skelda)
6. Contradicts himself ALL THE TIME.
7. Ignores things that happened previously in the game.
I don't know if his partner is Garmr or Skelda. I originally thought it was Garmr, but the strange stances he is taking now actually point to a Skelda scumbuddy. He wants to lynch me, not Skelda, and is asking people to convince him of Garmr's guilt as the only other lynch option. Still, he refuses to consider Skelda.
So yeah I'm only comfortable with voting zakk atm because I'm not entirely sure of his scumbuddy.-
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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- Joined: February 8, 2013
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Elyse Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6363
- Joined: February 8, 2013
You're a VT?
Damn.
If tool is a VT that's a weak town. Only two PRs. Well I guess it's fair if scum only has encryptor.
Either way, Skelda, I am happy you share my thoughts because I thought I was going crazy for a second. You could be bussing, but probably not.
So yeah I'm ready to vote now that my scumpool has claimed.
VOTE: zakk