Mini 1591: PFs Flavorless Normal (Game Over)

[I Am Innocent]

vote popsofctown

obv lurker scum

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah we played kunkstars cyclic experiment games together

[I Am Innocent]

Oh hello by the way....where are my manners?

[I Am Innocent]

U scum bro?

[I Am Innocent]

unvote popsofctown
vote cyberbob

[I Am Innocent]

Talk is cheap

[I Am Innocent]

Reinoe's case is overblown as hell and his insistence on stupid theatrics with all these "humourous" images and links is really annoying. Reading back over his posts it's really difficult to accept the narrative he is presenting of the progression of reasons for his vote - he wants people to believe that it was "serious" right from the get-go but the post in which he made it was about as lol rnadum as it gets. That 'hypocrisy off-beat playstyle hypocrisy off-beat' thing is being stretched beyond belief too. Could be inexperienced and overeager town I guess but IMO the best way to differentiate between shit town and scum is to see how they react under pressure.

Thus far SK has really been the only one to actually put any questions to reinoe since everyone else has been focusing on SK and running interference for the targets of SK's questions

.

PS there are almost certainly semi-lurking scum that are either facepalming at their scumbuddy reinoe going off half-cocked or rubbing their hands in glee at seeing town

reinoe being an excellent focus of attention

.

Why the contradiction in these two posts? (see underlined)

[I Am Innocent]

Hey cooldog, farside, and red coyote, how many scum in here...

[konowa, sleepykrew, cyberbob]

Why did you pick those three to ask? Appeal to authority?

(my answer is 1 by the way)

[I Am Innocent]

IAI vote Konowa for me so I can get more attention

Didn't like his initial vote on one of the easy wagons, but did like his #68. 72 was a bit weak, but not enough to get me off of cooldog yet.

Do you feel the same as me that both sleepy and reinoe are likely town then? If so, what do you think about cooldog's jump onto reinoe's wagon?

[I Am Innocent]

Why is everyone ignoring my case on Konowa?

I haven't ignored it but I'm not quite sure how you're reading so much into his initial reinoe vote when all he said to go along with it was "Yup." Especially since he admitted later that he hadn't actually read the thread - it would be a really weird thing to lie about, so why would he outright admit to it if he was scum? People jump on early Day 1 bandwagons for all sorts of reasons (including no reason at all).

Goofy is much scummier if you're looking for people to vote that aren't reinoe.

Why is Goofy much scummier? I have him in my townie pile right now.

[I Am Innocent]

Goofy's Post 77 is deliberately evasive and scummy as ****, also for some reason I'm having a bit of a gut reaction to his Post 65.

What did you think of his post 67, the one that actually had more than one sentence in it?

[I Am Innocent]

PS there are almost certainly semi-lurking scum.

how many scum here...

[I am innocent, goofydood, popsofctown]

My guess is 0.

[I Am Innocent]

Why is everyone ignoring my case on Konowa?

I haven't ignored it but I'm not quite sure how you're reading so much into his initial reinoe vote when all he said to go along with it was "Yup." Especially since he admitted later that he hadn't actually read the thread - it would be a really weird thing to lie about, so why would he outright admit to it if he was scum? People jump on early Day 1 bandwagons for all sorts of reasons (including no reason at all).

Goofy is much scummier if you're looking for people to vote that aren't reinoe.

Why is Goofy much scummier? I have him in my townie pile right now.

What? Why? What has he done that is alignment indicative?

His 67 felt sincere to me.

Though dodging reads is very scummy, so moved to the null pile as I came across this through my read through:

The end of the game will be here and I still won't have answered it, reads coming tomorrow maybe, bed now.

my top 2 at the moment are cyberbob & cooldog

I'd like to hear their top suspects in their next posts. Please. (once again, where are my manners)

drewsta and goofy, I would ask the same from you.

[I Am Innocent]

@IAI, reading Cooldog's posts, it seems like he really believes in the wagon. It seems like the sincere honest sort of sheeping.

I'd prefer you and he both do something more effective with your votes though, like Konowa. Or at least goofydood, who refused to answer a question in a manner that has fogged up the town rather than focused it.

Not feeling either of them strongly enough, though I agree with Farside that if goofydood doesn't appear soon and produce some reads, I'll be happy to my vote there.

Is it just me or is this game hard to follow? I blame SK and reinoe.

What does this post have to do with the game?

pops, what's your read on RC?

Look, we got something with sleepy if we can get some pressure on. konowa hasn't posted enough yet to warrent a wagon and goofy is doing a good enough job exposing whatever his exposing on his own. My vote is best served on SK where we can get some reactions because of it.

What reactions are you expecting?

If I hear you talk about RVS one more time I'm going ask for a mass claim in the hopes there is a day vig so that he can shoot you for the sake of my sanity. You are trying to squeeze a dry orange to look town. STAHP.

Mass claim on your mind, huh? Why would anyone need a mass claim to uncover a day vig anyway? That doesn't make sense.

unvote CyberBob
vote CoolDog

For the record, if anyone wants a CyberBob wagon, I'm game there too.

[I Am Innocent]

sorry guys, left work early today due to a bad migraine. hoping to feel better tomorrow so i can catch up and post

[I Am Innocent]

Picking up Prod...have alot to catch up on, and have a half hour now, but more time tonight after the kids go down to bed.

[I Am Innocent]

Hey cooldog, farside, and red coyote, how many scum in here...

[konowa, sleepykrew, cyberbob]

Why did you pick those three to ask? Appeal to authority?

(my answer is 1 by the way)

I've played with farside before but can't remember where. RedCoyote I've played with before and he was our MVP as the vig. Cooldog I thought I played with before but I actually don't that's the case.

Also which one do you think is scum of the three?

So your reasoning is use asked players who you thought you played with, though one of them you don't think you played with? Have you played with anyone else here?

The one I think is Cyberbob, the guy I voted for the first few pages.

[I Am Innocent]

IAI's last post smells kind of bad ftr

Why?

[I Am Innocent]

Drew, the 4 post scum read was me getting a scum read on you from the 4 posts you had made at the time. You only had 4 posts so that's not alot to scum read someone off of, which is why I didn't pursue at the time.

I'm not saying all 4 were scummy, just based on their combined content.

How do you feel about his add'l two posts after those first 4?

[I Am Innocent]

Drew, the 4 post scum read was me getting a scum read on you from the 4 posts you had made at the time. You only had 4 posts so that's not alot to scum read someone off of, which is why I didn't pursue at the time.

I'm not saying all 4 were scummy, just based on their combined content.

What content? I feel like you've misunderstood or misread me. Please be specific and I can walk you through it.

Its frustrating I have to prove myself like this but Konowa and RC have done a good job of ****ng me over while I've been on V/LA. Mud sticks, yo.

So your top 2 scum choices are people attacking you? You think that is what scum's motivation was coming in to Day 1, to pull together to take you out?

Not buying your "not liking IAI's 191 post, but can't explain why" either. Looks to me like you are blindly following pops dislike, targeting a quieter player (to that point).

I would like you to explain at least what part of 191 you didn't like, before pops explains his reason. Thanks.

Will finish catching up later.

[I Am Innocent]

RC/pops, what are your thoughts on cooldog and cyberbob? Would you vote either of them as a counter wagon to reinoe?

Been following on my phone, but still want a thorough read thru.

Cyberbob, I find ur comment about farside being useless to be full of crap. She has been the most protown player d1 and probably most worthy of doc protection. I find it interesting u attacking her credibility right as she pushed a cooldog wagon. Chainsaw much?

Should have time today to finish my catchup.

[I Am Innocent]

She has been the most protown player d1

and probably most worthy of doc protection.

Bait taken.

Go ahead, explain your thoughts on why that was a bad comment.

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah, sorry, I'm here. I've been reading the thread but it's been hard to find the motivation to post since farside is being useless as shit and reinoe is still scum and everybody that isn't voting for him appears to be quite set in their ways. I really can't understand how the hell SK is still managing to draw the ire of half the fucking playerlist.

I don't want to replace out, I told myself when I started this game that I was committed and I still am, but it's hard when right now I can't see this game ending in anything but a scum win over a town that deserves to lose.

How am I useless?

You're voting for CoolDoG (a wagon that isn't going to happen today) while spending most of your time pointlessly arguing with SK. You've been arguing with him since pretty much right at the start of the day, what has it achieved?

Farside has tried to move her vote around, create new wagons, instead of staying on the same two. The more people that face pressure, the more wagons created and people pushing for/against wagons, the more information town gets. That is why she is the most valuable player in my eye, and the most dangerous to scum. To call her useless is a complete joke.

Games are not won on D1, but they sure as heck can be lost there. If we lynch SK/Reinoe today, and they flip town, what next? Lynch the other one? And if they flip town??? Yeah, not wise to go down that road unless some others face pressure too, and information is had. Information that is the name of the game.

I pushed your wagon. Someone said they'd be okay with that, but didn't join. Nobody else followed me. That told me lots.

The Cooldog wagon is at 3, but so much resistance, including yourself. Trying to shoot down the wagon before it gains more steam, and attacks on the main driver of that wagon (farside) right now. That tells me alot too.

I want to see who will vote for you guys, and who won't. That is information I want. And personally, if one of the two you got lynched today, I'd be ecstatic. Because I guarantee you at least one of SK/Reinoe are town, and I wouldn't be shocked if both are.

[I Am Innocent]

She has been the most protown player d1

and probably most worthy of doc protection.

Bait taken.

Go ahead, explain your thoughts on why that was a bad comment.

If it really was "bait" then you already know why it was a bad comment.

Humor me then, or explain it to those who are less informed.

[I Am Innocent]

unvote popsofctown
vote cyberbob

^I could support this wagon.

Hey, so... I'm still in this game, you know.
Anyway, I was called scum by SK, I'd like to read about it.
What else... Reinoe is town, imo, his case on SK

is

over-the-top, true, but SK fisrt posts do tell plenty of people to just lynch him, I mean, SK, you did something dishonest (

you

said it) and you got called out because of it. What else did you expect?
However, SK isn't scum, either, more like leaning town, he just needs to take a few deep breaths, probably.
pops is town, obv, I'm gonna sheep him.
UNVOTE: farside
VOTE: Konowa
I dislike the way Konowa and Bob voted reinoe (RC, why do you like the latter?), and Konowa's unvote was horrible. That 'yup' does imply that he had some kind of knowledge about the game at the time, don't look over it only because it's only three letters. Bob overall gives me scumvibes, his wagon on reinoe, his exchange with RC, eh. It's a tonality thing.
I wouldn't start to speculate about Drew's alignment, partly because he's V/LA atm and he hasn't done much, partly because his posts are newbish, nothing else, imo.
Goofy should just answer

both

questions of SK, they shouldn't be so hard if he's town. (@everyone else: why are you emphasizing only the less relevant question?) Oh, the 'two votes OMG' segment was weird as hell.
About pictures, videos &c. since it seems to be a penis measure contest now: it's fine by me to flood the thread with such, but if you do post something non-text, could you please put a description before/after it about what you wanted to express them, please? Sometimes I'm online from my phone and loading pictures is long and bothersome. Thank you very much.

This is who I was referencing earlier (suspecting Bob, but went with someone else).

Another example of someone just parking their vote, giving us little information.

[I Am Innocent]

She has been the most protown player d1

and probably most worthy of doc protection.

Bait taken.

Go ahead, explain your thoughts on why that was a bad comment.

If it really was "bait" then you already know why it was a bad comment.

Humor me then, or explain it to those who are less informed.

[I Am Innocent]

For all you know, I was lying about bait, and am scum. Why not express your thoughts and maybe it proves my guilt down the road?

Or are you worried I caught you in something...

[I Am Innocent]

"Go ahead, explain your thoughts on why that was a bad comment."

[I Am Innocent]

Because you can't, right?

[I Am Innocent]

It's another one of those game theory things but even worse than the "town case" things. It isn't really scummy but it's anti-town and generally dumb as hell. I'm not going into why because a) I can't be bothered and b) power role discussion generally gives more information to the scum than is desirable.

My thoughts on farside being considered for a doc claim help scum out none-what-so-ever.

Two scenarios:

1) I am the doc. If I am, my comment to the rest of the group would just be playing cat and mouse with the scum. "Is there a doc, if so, would they listen to IAI's suggestion about protecting Farside". I may or may not really have that intention myself...but putting that doubt there does serve my purposes.

2) I am not the doc (someone else is, or there is none). Why the heck would they listen to me outright, not knowing my alignment, and even if they did, trust my instincts on farside. Truth is, they wouldn't listen to me outright. Would they consider it....yes, which was my purpose. Scum will know they will consider it and may be enough to keep them from blindly killing her N1. Paranoia for the scum is a GOOD THING.

So in all, it hurts town absolutely in no way, and only messes with scum's head.

So dumb, I disagree. But I do think it was an easy way to see if I could get scum to jump on me over that comment. Like I said, bait taken.

[I Am Innocent]

Willing to switch to Drew, but prefer cooldog

[I Am Innocent]

My thoughts on farside being considered for a doc claim help scum out none-what-so-ever.

I don't speak for Bob, but your speculation in even bringing up a doctor is unwarranted. Town shouldn't be fishing for roles. Period.

Dessew/reinoe, do y'all have to share that tracker power or is it solely at reinoe's discretion?

[I Am Innocent]

no seriously sk is scum but let's sheep him now

Who the flark thinks renioe/Skrew scum team?

This is a pretty good point. The case can be made that CD was shopping both wagons, looking for which one was the "winning horse", as it were, and flipping from one to the other when he thought the chances looked better that reinoe would be lynched.

a touch?

This is a fair point as well. I don't know how scummy it makes CD, but it's a point of fact that he flip flopped.

---

Hey Dessew,

Spoiler:

I'm about to go to bed and I meant to actually do this earlier.

I'm a town neighbor with Dessew. Dessew please confirm.

I can confirm this. I have also realized something just now.

What did you just realize, btw?

Look, eh, I'll vote Drew, CD or IAI at this point. reinoe's claim also gives me better vibes about farside. She may have just gotten lucky and attached herself to reinoe early, but I'll err on the side of her having a better town game than me (which isn't saying much), or at least being able to read reinoe better than me.

VOTE: CooLDoG

I think Drew may have a better shot at scum, but I also think it may be my bias talking that's getting me thinking that. We may just be rubbing each other the wrong way, although I think he's being extremely unfair and unreasonable in a lot of the things he's said. I talked about this with SK some earlier.

On the back of some posts that could be read as coaching (501, 504), his flip flop with regard to SK/reinoe scum, and how little he's referenced IAI (I don't think he's addressed IAI once), Dessew, and Goofy. He mentioned Goofy a few times, but it always comes across as him coaching or helping him along, not that he's trying to get a read for his alignment.

"Look, eh, I'll vote Drew, CD or IAI at this point." Two guys with wagons, and me with no votes. Interesting.

"and how little he's referenced IAI (I don't think he's addressed IAI once)" I assume this in reference to Cooldog? The guy you just voted. The guy I've voted most of D1. The guy I voted over Reinoe, who you are kissing up to at this point?

Got a good feeling most, if not all the scum are in {Cooldog, Cyberbob, Drew, RC}. Pops lurking of recent is not giving me good vibes either.

RC voting Cooldog, while pops voting Drew could be very telling later.

[I Am Innocent]

How can you fish for a role that has been claimed?

I was clarifying this because if reinoe dies tomorrow and Dessew claimed he had results, I wanted it on record while they were both alive whether or not either of them could do the track.

Do you think clarifying this helped the scum? Moreso than me making a random suggestion on who the doc may want to protect?

(answers are yes and yes btw)

[I Am Innocent]

Why would scum Dessew claim results anyway? lol

[I Am Innocent]

Seriously, there's some very easily misled town in this game.

Who are you referring to? And how are you so sure they are misled town vs. scum???

[I Am Innocent]

unvote cooldog
Vote RC

[I Am Innocent]

Reinoe, hopefully this goes without saying, but don't leak any thoughts of your tracking target in the neighborhood QT. As mentioned by others, dessew could still be scum.

[I Am Innocent]

I for one do not believe RC's claim. Bodyguard is an easy claim to fake for scum.

If RC's wagon falls apart, I am going to move my vote back to Cooldog, though I'm starting to feel there is only 1 scum in {RC, Cooldog}. VT claim/my suspicion of that slot would take precedence over suspicion I have for others at this point (who have not claimed), hence why my vote would go back there.

[I Am Innocent]

For one, nobody is assuming being a neighbor = town, so not a great fake claim.

Two, neighbors/neighborizers are more common and more likely to be counterclaimed than bodyguard, which is more obscure from the games I have played in.

Neighbors involve more than 1 player, so 2 of likely 3 scum team are going to create a link like that D1? With crumbs?

(Which reminds me, RC DID YOU LEAVE A CRUMB ANYWHERE?)

Fake Bodyguard can simply wake up each day saying, oh I targeted this person, but they are still alive and were obv not the scum kill target.

[I Am Innocent]

I think Bob is scum.

[I Am Innocent]

RC/pops, what are your thoughts on cooldog and cyberbob? Would you vote either of them as a counter wagon to reinoe?

Absolutely not. I have them both as townreads. Drew is an acceptable counterwagon. I have offered reinoe a chance to join with me in voting him and I stand by that.

Your vote of Cooldog over Drew based on this comment from page 31 does not paint you in a great picture.

[I Am Innocent]

Notice who the Absolutely nots are....cooldog and cyberbob, yet he votes cooldog just a few pages later.

Now the other player in that list is protect RC....bob and RC as two of the scum anyone?

[I Am Innocent]

Do you believe RC's claim Beck?

[I Am Innocent]

Bodyguard is not less likely to be counterclaimed than neighbours. A doctor (which is a very common role) would counterclaim it because having two town protection roles in a normal mini would be ridiculous. Drawing out a doctor is the only reason I can think of for scum to fakeclaim bodyguard.

No a doctor should not counter claim at this point.

"Drawing out a doctor is the only reason I can think of for scum to fakeclaim bodyguard" and this is absolutely true, which is why I am wondering if you were rolefishing on my original reason for not believing RC.

[I Am Innocent]

RC, IS THERE A CRUMB OUT THERE?

[I Am Innocent]

Bodyguard is not less likely to be counterclaimed than neighbours. A doctor (which is a very common role) would counterclaim it because having two town protection roles in a normal mini would be ridiculous. Drawing out a doctor is the only reason I can think of for scum to fakeclaim bodyguard.

No a doctor should not counter claim at this point.

"Drawing out a doctor is the only reason I can think of for scum to fakeclaim bodyguard" and this is absolutely true, which is why I am wondering if you were rolefishing on my original reason for not believing RC.

I figured it goes without saying that I agree that a doctor should not counterclaim. You're one loopy guy, IAI.

Why the personal attacks?

And not it does not go without saying. Esp when you just said "A doctor (which is a very common role) would counterclaim it because having two town protection roles in a normal mini would be ridiculous."

No where in there did you say you disagree with it. So how does it go without saying?

[I Am Innocent]

Saying something dumb and wrong just to try and spring some kind of AHA YOU'RE ROLEFISHING trap on someone when they point out that you are wrong is a questionable tactic at best I would have thought

"Saying something dumb and wrong" = more personal attacks. which is scummy.

At this point my vote stays on RC or moves to cyberbob.

[I Am Innocent]

Do you believe RC's claim Beck?

I do believe it, I feel like if he were scum he would have not claimed so quickly

p,edit - I agree, though if their is a CC, save it for another day

Do you know what a bodyguard does? He dies for someone else that is targeted. No information gathered, no kills prevented. Someone still dies.

It is one of the weaker power roles there are out there. Just sayin'.

If this were a cop, doctor, and many other roles, I'd agree, no killing a claimed power role D1. But with a lack of crumb (i scanned his first half of his posts) as well as the claim itself, I am fairly sure RC is lying. I even played in a game with RC where the SK lied and said he was a bodyguard. I've probably witnessed as many fake bodyguards as real one's (1 each that comes to mind).

[I Am Innocent]

Pops, it's called PoE. And protecting our power roles identity. All in one.

As for faking my reads, u'll see RC and cooldog throughout my ISO, so get that crap out of here!

Ask yourself two questions

1) do u think bodyguard RC is likely to leave a crumb?

2) more importantly, what pct of the time do scum almost lynched D1 fake claim vs claim VT?

[I Am Innocent]

And pops my vote is still on RC, no switch to cooldog (tho in that post that was the only other place I said I'd move it)

[I Am Innocent]

Not everyone crumbs a role. I don't know if red is the type.

He's scum, bank on it!

[I Am Innocent]

I for one do not believe RC's claim. Bodyguard is an easy claim to fake for scum.

Of course you don't. You're scum.

I also appreciate you running me up to L-1

without announcing it. Hoping for someone to hammer me without a claim or what?

Underline is a blatant lie. I would like you to link me to the five votes on you before mine...cause you won't find them.

[I Am Innocent]

RC/pops, what are your thoughts on cooldog and cyberbob? Would you vote either of them as a counter wagon to reinoe?

Absolutely not. I have them both as townreads. Drew is an acceptable counterwagon. I have offered reinoe a chance to join with me in voting him and I stand by that.

You dodged my earlier question. You say on Page 31 that you will "Absolutely not" vote cooldog. You have him as a "townread"...not lean town, but town read.

Then you vote him a few pages later.

What was so condemning that he went from an "Absolutely not" person to vote for, a complete "townread", to the wagon you hopped on?

[I Am Innocent]

unvote RC
Vote cooldog

Likely 2 town wagons at the end of this day.

[I Am Innocent]

RC And Everyone Else...that is L-1

Don't want to be accused of trying something sneaky or anything.

[I Am Innocent]

RC still avoiding my question for the record

[I Am Innocent]

RC/pops, what are your thoughts on cooldog and cyberbob? Would you vote either of them as a counter wagon to reinoe?

Absolutely not. I have them both as townreads. Drew is an acceptable counterwagon. I have offered reinoe a chance to join with me in voting him and I stand by that.

Also, IAI is leaving out a significant point of context here. IAI specifically asked me if I would vote CD or Cyberbob

as a counter wagon to reinoe

. That's the criteria, okay? He qualified that statement and he's now omitting the qualifier to paint me in a certain light. In the universe where reinoe is my top scumread and hasn't claimed, I absolutely would never join IAI on a CD counter wagon. In the universe where reinoe is no longer my top scumread and has claimed, I absolutely could conceivably vote CD. But it's no longer a counter wagon to reinoe. Do you follow me?

"In the universe where reinoe is no longer my top scumread and has claimed, I absolutely could conceivably vote CD"

Lol, that's exactly how I fell about my "townreads" which is what RC called cooldog on Page 31. I'm also conceivably ready to vote them as town...

Keep squirming and trying to dig yourself out of hole scum, you'll hang soon enough. D2, D3, when your still alive, it will happen.

Lol at CyberBob attacking Drew so hard. Is that cause Drew is after your scumbuddy too?

RC, Bob, ?

Game almost figured out.

[I Am Innocent]

popsofctown did post so he will not be replaced. Did not see any vote changes.

Day 1 Vote Count:

reinoe (5) - SleepyKrew, CooLDoG, Cyberbob, Goofyd00d, RedCoyote
CooLDoG (3) - I Am Innocent, reinoe, farside22
Drew-Sta (2) - Beck, Dessew
RedCoyote (1) - Drew-Sta
SleepyKrew (1) - popsofctown

Not voting (0) - No one

with 12 alive its 7 to lynch

SleepyKrew is v/la until 8/12/14

Deadline Countdown

(expired on 2014-08-07 20:00:00)

The Rules, Stolen from shaft.ed, TSQ, Mr. Stoofer, Flameaxe, Jdodge:

05. You can vote for no lynch to occur during the day. Simply post VOTE: No Lynch. Should this vote reach a majority, it will happen.

If no majority is reached during a day then there will be a no lynch when that day ends

You voted in CoolDog in Post 819. Here is Pokerface's last vote count before it.

Voted cooldog, your town read on Page 31 over Drew, who as you said above, in the same post you declared your town read for CoolDog, was "an acceptable counterwagon"

Yet you went for the bigger wagon, interesting.

Pretty sure both Cooldog and Drew are town based on RC's vote there. If one is going, I'd prefer the one who stays is 1) the one who hasn't claimed, and 2) one who see's through RC's bull.

Drew, move for your vote to Cooldog. Sleepy, vote Cooldog.

See Cyber, two can play this game.

[I Am Innocent]

Guess what else happened. reinoe went from being a scumread of mine to a townread of mine in that same amount of time. Scandalous, right?

I'm pretty sure you KNEW he was town all game. Just like you KNOW I'm town too right?

[I Am Innocent]

"SK, IAI and Drew are both adept at twisting words around. They overplayed their hand here because they thought the could lynch me even after I claimed. They got greedy. They both need to be hanged."

OMGUS much?

[I Am Innocent]

Maybe circumstances changed over the course of ten pages? Like, I don't know, my top scumread claimed tracker and prompted me to reread over parts of the game?

I guess that's never happened to you, huh, IAI?

Ten pages????? It was 50 posts (769 to 819)

What happened in those TWO pages to sway you from a townread on Cooldog to voting him over an acceptable counterwagon like Drew?

[I Am Innocent]

Please address the issue of Drew's personal attack against me IAI. You did say personal attacks were scummy right?

For all you know, I was lying about bait, and am scum. Why not express your thoughts and maybe it proves my guilt down the road?

Or are you worried I caught you in something...

No.

Ditto

[I Am Innocent]

No.

ditto

[I Am Innocent]

What happened in those TWO pages to sway you from a townread on Cooldog to voting him over an acceptable counterwagon like Drew?

A tracker claim.

I must have missed where that tracker claim produced a guilty result on cooldog. Can you point to me where that was?

[I Am Innocent]

Lol, the implication of 1121 is that IAI would try to lynch a non-CC'd tracker, too, I guess. It's just ridiculous. This whole thing is so ridiculous. You two got your hands caught in the cookie jar and now your partner is about to eat rope. I hope you're cooking up something good for us overnight, IAI.

No read it again. Because I'm pretty sure it was entirely about you once again dodging the question on how u went from a town read on cooldog to voting him in just 50 posts. Over Drew (ur acceptable counter wagon) none the less...

As for our claimed tracker, I don't recall ever suspecting him or pushing his lynch all game, but feel free to verify that for yourself in my ISO.

[I Am Innocent]

He's voted both cooldog and drew, so not sure where you are going with that.

[I Am Innocent]

[float=][/float]I think RC scum picked town cooldog over town drew 1) because cooldog had the bigger wagon and 2) because he forgot his comments/reads to me.

I see your logic, your saying if RC is scum, the order of things points drew as a more likely scum partner of RC than cooldog.

I just don't see both Drew and RC being scum together, if I'm wrong, mad props to both of them.

[I Am Innocent]

"For my money, it's IAI-pops/farside-beck/CD/maybe Dessew "

So basically you suspect 6 of the other 9 players of possibly being scum at this point. Keep your voting options open much?

[I Am Innocent]

Going to do some vote count analysis, for Dessew/RC/guessing CyberBob when he checks in, we have two dead townies. Do you know how many times those dead townies received my vote? ZERO.

How about analyzing the wagons yourselves to see where scum is on there. Cyberbob's vote early D1 (3rd on Reinoe) got my attention early. It was why I jumped on him. Guarantee that scum was on those wagons, so how about "analyzing" them rather than OMGUS'ing, RC? Dessew, same challenge goes to you.

[I Am Innocent]

For the record, this is not my vote count analysis, I plan to look at all the votes, this is just the lazy man's way. Where are the scum?

Day 1 Vote Count:

reinoe (5) - SleepyKrew, CooLDoG, Cyberbob, Goofyd00d, RedCoyote
CooLDoG (3) - I Am Innocent, reinoe, farside22
Drew-Sta (2) - Beck, Dessew
RedCoyote (1) - Drew-Sta
SleepyKrew (1) - popsofctown

Not voting (0) - No one

with 12 alive its 7 to lynch

SleepyKrew is v/la until 8/12/14
popsofctown has not yet picked up or responded to his prod. It was sent 36 hours ago so he has 12 more (2 day total) before he is replaced

Deadline Countdown

(expired on 2014-08-07 20:00:00)

End of Day 1 Vote Count:

Drew-Sta (7) - Dessew, Goofyd00d, Cyberbob, popsofctown, RedCoyote, CooLDoG, SleepyKrew
CooLDoG (4) - reinoe, Beck, farside22, I Am Innocent
RedCoyote (1) - Drew-Sta

Not voting (0) - No one

with 12 alive its 7 to lynch

SleepyKrew is v/la until 8/12/14

Drew-Sta has been lynched he was

Town Vigilante

Get actions to me in 2 days adding countdown here shortly

Night 1 Deadline Countdown

(expired on 2014-08-09 18:30:00)

[I Am Innocent]

So basically you suspect 6 of the other 9 players of possibly being scum at this point. Keep your voting options open much?

Only you would feel compelled to read something that obtusely. It's quite obvious I am saying you are definitely scum, pops/farside is another scum, and a third scum would be one of the other three.

And those numbers add up to what....out of 9 players?

How is that obtuse? If any wagon late in the day pops up on any of these players, would you not consider them for a lynch?

[I Am Innocent]

RC, I know your lazy/OMGUS'ing, but me, pops, and Farside were not on that Reinoe wagon of 5. Neither was beck or dessew.

So 5 of ur 6 scum reads are not on the wagon...do u really think Beck or Dessew could be the last scum and that none of the 3 scum were on that Reinoe wagon?

[I Am Innocent]

See what your doing is lazy, and lazy = scummy.

What do you think about me saying Cooldog should be the lynch so we don't have another player claim? Does that hold more weight than you saying, "If he had claimed vig, I'd have voted CD for sure. I had a feeling that he might be town (that's partially why I voted CD instead of Drew after reinoe's claim) and that I was just tunnelling on him, but when IAI and Drew ganged up on me after my claim with no CC... that's was it. I was officially done with him."

Who wants more players to claim D1? Scum or town?

Who would rather lynch now town confirmed Drew vs claimed VT cooldog? Scum or town?

Where was I on that argument, and where were you?

[I Am Innocent]

And where do you think most scum would go "If he had claimed vig"? Do you think they're going to say "No, I'm gonna keep pushing a claimed town vig" (which has alot more weight than a bodyguard, which DOES NOT PREVENT A DEATH AT NIGHT, NOR PROVIDE ANY INVESTIGATIVE INFORMATION).

No they are going to blend in and play the "i'm a good player" card.

So that statement is useless.

[I Am Innocent]

Hi Bob, how predictable.

I notice you on both those wagons, huh? Very curious...

[I Am Innocent]

Last thing for now, SleepyKrew, why did you feel the need to hammer without a claim? There was little chance of a no-lynch, Farside already asked for a claim and set a timer for the hammer...

[I Am Innocent]

Wow, actually 5 of you on both those wagons. The ones of you that are town, I'd think you'd be looking real hard at the other 4 players.

So what does that say about RC/Bob who just vote me to start this day with no real analysis.

[I Am Innocent]

Bob, please provide me your scum reads.

[I Am Innocent]

Hi Bob, how predictable.

I notice you on both those wagons, huh? Very curious...

You've been dropping all these "clever and mysterious" little hints about how you think I'm so scummy for some time now, why don't you get your suspicion of me in writing (so to speak) and put a vote down? Are you scared of being seen to start a wagon?

Yeah like I've never done that on you before...

unvote popsofctown
vote cyberbob

[I Am Innocent]

CoolDoG/IAI team very possible. Will need to go back and read up on their interactions again at some point.

Two flips and this is all you got?

There is something that doesn't line up with regard to what happen N1, which is why I'm just a tad hesitant to vote RC. I actually think of the two of you, that in the off chance, you're not scummates, that your the scum. I was curious to see if anyone else noticed this, though I haven't seen it brought up, even by RC himself.

This is sooooo scary but

vote Cyberbob

Did I really just start a wagon on you....twice this game! Yikes...

[I Am Innocent]

That was way back when wagons were a dime a dozen, at this point in the game wagons are of much more import. Why don't you give it a shot? See how it feels.

Felt great actually. Just hope there are 5 more votes to join it.

[I Am Innocent]

So come on, you got me, the scum avoiding the town wagons, and now cooldog, the self voting VT claimed second scum on both wagons, whose your third?

This is fun Bob, give it to me!

[I Am Innocent]

Mod, I will be V/LA until Thursday

Have a camp to pack and get ready for, so won't have any time to link to posts, but I'm going to lay it all out. If you don't believe me, you don't believe me. But this is the truth.

Cyberbob's 1200 "I know right!? It's so exciting. It only took like three posts to finally goad you into it!"

Please don't act like you goaded me into a vote. I suspected you all of D1, and the beginning of D2. My reason for picking you over RC is that with Reinoe dying, it makes his claim more believable. If there was a "real" protective role, they would have targeted Reinoe. But it didn't happen, which means a bodyguard is more likely. And a bodyguard does line up better with a town vig (bodyguard could save scum in this situation, if that's who both they and the vig target). So yeah, nice try on trying to discredit my vote. Scummy move once again.

Cyberbob's 1201 "CD mentioned IAI all of two times yesterday despite IAI throwing all sorts of accusations and votes his way. Not wanting to react too hard to a bus?"

D2, with 2 town flips, and you have one scum read which I know is wrong, and a 2nd which was only because it is linked to your first. That is lazy scumhunting...or fake scumhunting. I think you and I both know which. Funny thing is, you said I was scared to start a wagon on you D2...do you know who started the wagon on cooldog? Look it up, it was me. And I didn't move for the longest time. Funny connection you're trying to force there. Esp when D1 ended, and I was saying to everybody, vote cooldog over drew, VT claim over unknown one. Weird way to treat a scummate. Nice try buddy...

Cyberbob's 1204 "(Also I believe I had CD as more of a null read for most of yesterday than a town read)"

Yep, you voted the confirmed town vig while I voted CD. Once again, bad argument on your part.

Sleepykrew's 1210 "What happens if Drew claims? He moves to CD and we'd still have needed two more votes in a very short amount of time. Did you do that VCA?"

We had hours and hours. The rush looks bad. And with 12 players, a no lynch at some point might make sense, it would have been better than lynching a claimed town vig (who could prove himself at least of being a vig).

Dessew's 1214 "I read IAI's case on RC as if RC's having claimed a BG and lynched a townie played a key role in it, which is just outright absurd. Unfortunately, I know little to nothing about wagon analysis, so I can't provide one. I want to reiterate the point that a Vig and an even number of players make the existence of a BG very beliveable. I'd also like to add, that loosing a Vig instead of a BG is not such a tragedy (something similar arose durig the conversation), as Vigs are wild cards."

Agree that with Reinoe not surviving (a protective role other than RC's claim) and a dead town vig does make RC's claim more believable. You bringing that up is town points in your favor. Dessew, for vote count analysis, you need to see who voted the town and for what reasons. Think about how you play as scum, and say, how would I play? If you believe RC is a bodyguard, you must believe scum has a roleblocker. If I was scum then, why would I try to get RC lynched D1 when I could just have him roleblocked and call him a liar D2? Who started D2 with a vote on RC (sleepykrew)? This is what you need to think about/look at.

Pops 1216 "I'm going to sheep Cyberbob a little bit here. I like his work."

Tell me what you like about his work? And with the whole RC might really be a bodyguard, it does make you look worse. Your the one that was ready to lynch him two days later if he was still alive. Who are your other scum reads?

RCs 1222 "In regards to IAI, check out 689 where he fishes for a doctor claim."

I've done this before as town...wish I had time to dig it up. I stand by my earlier explanation to you. In prior games, I've been called out for it by scum. You calling me out for it, if you really are a bodyguard, does make sense. Cyberbob took the bait tho. Guarantee he is scum. I'm not, sorry.

"Another point, I find is conspicious that CD has been really lax about mentioning IAI at all, despite the fact that IAI had been attacking him throughout most of D1. That doesn't look like a town-town relationship to me, but, rather, either scum-scum or scum-town. Check out 906 where he tries to throw dirt on my BG claim. Him and Drew try and tag team me and get me lynched post-claim."

And where did my vote go when nobody jumped on you...back to Cooldog. What do you think about my question to Dessew: If you believe RC is a bodyguard, you must believe scum has a roleblocker. If I was scum then, why would I try to get RC lynched D1 when I could just have him roleblocked and call him a liar D2?

"Also, I have no idea how a BG claim is "easy" for scum to fake? Maybe we could ask IAI how it's "easy" for me to fake my own death?"

Well in all fairness, you haven't died yet. A mysterious "roleblocker" or saying I went for Player B instead of Player A are easy ways to fake the claim. But you notice I didn't come out and vote you D2. I'm starting to have doubts about my scum read on you, not going to lie.

"IAI was coming after me for voting CD as opposed to Drew yesterday saying that I flipped my townread on CD. That was a misrepresentation as I explained in 1106. IAI wanted to know if I would vote CD specifically as a counterwagon to reinoe prior to reinoe's claim. Under those specific conditions, I did not want to vote CD. But after reinoe's claim and the (rightful) collapse of his wagon, CD was no longer a counterwagon to reinoe because reinoe wasn't a viable wagon any longer, do you follow me?"

RC, you said CD was a town read and you would absolutely not vote him. Then 50 posts later, you voted him. Do you see my issue/concern with your stances and later votes? Scum make up reads, forget them, and vote other people later. I still find that pretty scummy, which is pulling me in the wrong direction of believing your bodyguard claim.

"IAI contradicts himself in his own post, calling CD town and then asking players to vote for him in 1112."

I said I thought both wagons were town. CD had claimed vanilla townie, so my vote was in that direction over the unclaimed player. My preference was obviously you or Cyberbob, but neither of those wagons were taking off at the deadline.

"IAI's contention that him not voting reinoe or Drew during D1 in post 1177 is hardly convincing at all. I elaborate as to why in 1191, but the short of it is that IAI is on record as saying he would vote Drew. It's nonsensical for him to turn right around and claim that him never voting Drew makes him town... he offered to do so!"

Talk is cheap, I think I posted that on Page 2 of this thread. Yes I suspected Drew earlier in the day, but when push came to shove, I never moved my vote for him and pushed for Cooldog's lynch over him. If you think lynching a player like me D2 is the way to go, and leaving 5 players who were on both Reinoe's and Drew's wagon alive going into D3, have at it. I'll laugh at the townies responsible for my lynch postgame...

************

Sorry I have to run for a few days, hopefully I addressed everyone's questions/comments.

[I Am Innocent]

You would be one of my other suspicions, IAI, but that vacay post placated me to a good extent.

unvote

Skrew is one of my other suspects. As I expressed D1, I feel like the Skrew vs. reinoe drivel that lasted all D1 didn't seem like town vs. town, and Skrew seems excessively defensive all game.

Goofydood and Beck are not my favorite slots either

Why unvote without a follow up vote to one of these 3 players? And what about my question about what you like from Cyberbob so far?

Is it the votes for the two confirmed town so far? I know he has voted a 3rd townie (me), and his only other suspect hinges on my guilt (which my flip will nullify as I'm town).

No other reads from him at this point.

So once again, what did you like from Cyberbob?

[I Am Innocent]

farside, I don't understand. You're not referring to me as having "no case", are you? I just gave you six very solid points in favor of IAI scum. Tailor made for you, hon. Also, again, how in the heck is it OMGUS when IAI isn't even voting me? He's, in fact, made it a point to say he isn't voting me and is even possibly coming around to viewing me as town in his most recent post.

Even if IAI were voting me, dismissing someone's vote as OMGUS when they take the time to respond to your questions and lay out cogent arguments is unfair, I think, and, frankly, not what I'd expect of you. I appreciate you engaging me, but I don't think you're being fair at all.

Did you see my question about why would scum IAI try to push town bodyguard RC D1 if we had a roleblocker, and my 'scum team' could just frame you when Reinoe died? What are your thoughts on that?

[I Am Innocent]

and to IAI (I think?), we did not have "lots and lots of hours". There were 5 hours left when I hammered. Drew got on nearly 2 hours later. Nearly everyone that got on between Drew's post and PF ending the day was already voting CD. Could Drew, myself, and CD all have voted CD? Possibly. Is it likely? No. What's the point of this anyway? Are you calling me scummy for hammering or are you just criticizing me for making the correct play?

Your hammer 5 hrs before, when another player not on the wagon asked for a claim is shady. Plus your vote on RC to start the day is what I would expect of scum who was trying to frame RC. So basically I've got an either/or scum of you or RC at this point.

[I Am Innocent]

@farside: the part where IAI calls people scum(my?) for lynching Drew is scummy. Just an example: 'you lynched the confirmed town vig Drew' (to whomever, it doesn't really matter.)
I'll look into this pops case when my head isn't full of Banach-Tarsky (you (mathematically) are able to make an ordinary chalk into the size of a mammoth, crazy, right?)

I'm going to spell this out for you.

If you are town, in a game with 11 other players, presumably 3 of which are scum, that means you have a random chance of voting scum 3 out of 11 times (27%) and town 8 out of 11 times (73%).

Scum knows who is town and who isn't, so if a bad townie makes a fool of himself and gets a large wagon, who do you think is going to vote it. A few townies (73% of them maybe, as a reasonable guess), and maybe 2 of the 3 scum?

So when I see two townies, now dead, WHICH MAKES THEM CONFIRMED TOWNIES NOW, and FIVE players were on both those wagons, I'm guessing scum are in that list. Probably at least two. What do you think?

But yet you seem to think scum avoided BOTH of those wagons. Because that is what I did and that is what you are calling me (scum).

I'm going to clue everyone into mafia 101:

1) scum like to vote town
2) scum like to do it without drawing attention, which usually means not starting the wagon and...
3) ...not voting obvious town (aka, picking easy targets, which are those who usually draw large wagons)
4) scum like to not give lots of reads (that way they are free to maneuver more)
5) scum like to play the good guy feature, which means if someone claims, let's jump to another wagon cause look at me, I'm a good townie

and so on and so forth.

Dessew, when I scumhunt, I think what would I do as scum. Is that player doing it, or not.

Cyberbob has done almost all of those items above.

One could say IAI has not done 1, 2 (started a Cyberbob wagon, Cooldog wagon, pushed RC hard after he claimed), 3, 4, and 5.

Call my posts arrogant, but if you are town, ask yourself 'what would scum do'. You will find many answers in that and become a much better scumhunter I promise.

[I Am Innocent]

Phone post to say farside is right and my last post was poorly worded. I was a little buzzed and something about this game is bringing out angry RC. I still think I've been very clear about the Drew/CD thing, but I'm going to take a step back and let others talk for a while.

You have not been clear. What changed in that 50 post span to make Cooldog go from a townread to worthy of your vote?

[I Am Innocent]

i'm a replacement also, came in day 1

20+ pages of SK v reinoe. reinoe claimed tracker/neighbor but was only neighbor. tbh I can't remember who his other neighbor is atm

your slot was pretty bad and was going to get lynched when a scramble to lynch drew took place and he was hammered by SK with a few hours before deadline. We did not get a claim and he flipped town vig

your slot replaced out in an unsual way and for some reason people are voting pops and IAI but I have no idea cause I haven't really read the past couple of pages closely

This post actually made me laugh.

Sorry, carry on people

[I Am Innocent]

Oh right there aren't any flipped scum to ISO

Um...alright, reinoe it is lol

I'll probably read the last few pages, too. Helps me feel more active in the game instead of playing catch up. Wewt.

The last few pages over the last few pages of D1 when all the vote movement occurred? You don't think there might be stuff of worth in there???

[I Am Innocent]

I think farside's concerns may be valid in the sense that I may have gotten some confirmation bias after explaining my nullread on cooldog. It's not anything worth feeling that strongly about, I just felt I had to make the most responsible choice I could between Drew and Cooldog, and it was really pretty close for me.

Cooldog replace out looked really bad, and that's reason enough for him to be lynchable today. Especially the way he explained it, since he contributed fine day one.

Yet still no vote. Any particular reason why???

[I Am Innocent]

Sooo...process of elimination ready go? Bob and farside are pretty obviously town. Probably Beck, too, but don't want to speak too quickly.

I need more discussion to engage in now that I'm here.

Why is Bob obv town?

[I Am Innocent]

Ugh, I've been out of it lately, then got sent out of town for work training. I'm kind of lost with the flips and nothing I've read today has really stuck.

My top two scum reads flipped town so I'm having to try to think objectively again.

I would like your thoughts on the other 9 living players, thanks.

[I Am Innocent]

Your hammer 5 hrs before, when another player not on the wagon asked for a claim is shady.

Drew claims Vig. farside could hammer or no lynch. So either same result as me, or no lynch.

Plus your vote on RC to start the day is what I would expect of scum who was trying to frame RC. So basically I've got an either/or scum of you or RC at this point.

Except I was pretty clearly questioning him about his actions during D1,

not

the Night.

If Drew claimed vig, I would have rather no lynch than hammer personally. Though I think you'd be surprised at how many people are around at the deadline...

As for Part 2 above, it is irrelevant what you were questioning him about. If RC is a bodyguard, scum have some way of altering that (or RC is lying about who he guarded N1), then I would expect scum to try and get a wagon going early D2 on RC, esp since they would know I would likely be willing to join it.

You were the only one who voted him tho. Caught my eye as I started to have doubts about RC fake claiming with no likely other protective roles out there.

[I Am Innocent]

Caught up.

Now the bad news. On vacation for the next 10 days, so mostly phone posting. Should have a day or two at my mom's with a computer where I'll try to track all the votes from D1 and produce an analysis.

[I Am Innocent]

@sleepykrew, probably because I had strong town read on him and would have rather seen how the night actions played out with so many claimed power roles than likely mislynch a power role the scum would surely not want in the game.

@rc, what about my other question on why would scum IAI push a mislynch on bodyguard RC D1 if my scum team had a role blocker and we could try to frame you instead?

[I Am Innocent]

@RC as you reevaluated your reads, what specific thing about cooldog made you feel he was scum? That I believe you have answered 0 times...

[I Am Innocent]

Pops what do you like about singers play?

[I Am Innocent]

unvote cyberbob
Vote pops

If I got lynched, please please please lynch this guy tomorrow (cyberbob). I know my arrogance has rubbed a few people the wrong way, but my reads have indeed been good and my flip will prove that when u see I am town. I am fairly certain he is scum, and my wagon will be the third town one he is on now, along with reinoe and Drew.

Pops is not a bad wagon either. I keep coming back to his comment that if RC is alive after a couple of nights we should consider lynching him. Scum could ensure that if they had a roleblocker.

And that last comment about liking singer, I feel that was completely off base, and possibly trying to win a vote on what looks to be an IAI vs pops showdown

[I Am Innocent]

Scum want town lynched.

Two town are dead.

Cyberscum, you and four others went after both of them. Do you think (well you prob know) that there is more likely scum in this group vs the group that did not vote for them? When I flip town and farside dies tonight, you have the same group of 5 and likely mylo. Where are you going from there?

Dessew, no offense, but I have zero desire to play with you ever again. If I get lynched today, and you do not auto vote cyber bob tomorrow, I will policy vote you every game going forward until your lynched. If you are town you are a detriment to your team.

And phone posting stinks, but you can ISO me D2 and pretty easily find where I was hesitant to vote RC, and later the reasoning for it. It was the same thought process you have, hence why I think you are less likely scum.

[I Am Innocent]

Lol at cyberbob saying reinoe was the N1 death choice to make scum IAI look more town... Had nothing to do with him being a claimed tracker, huh?

Reach much on ur cases there???

[I Am Innocent]

Super response in 1421

[I Am Innocent]

Cyberbob, would you care to list your reads from towniest to scummiest? I am happy to do likewise

[I Am Innocent]

IAI
Farside
Sleepykrew
Singer
Beck
RC
Dessew
Goofydood
Pops
Cyberbob

[I Am Innocent]

Let's see if ur finally ready to make some reads

[I Am Innocent]

Hey dessew, scum hate making enemies...they are going to need some help at end game to win it.

Like cyberbob having just 1 scum read (me) and then a conditional one if I flip scum (singer).

More mafia 101 that u need to learn

[I Am Innocent]

I already made some soz xxoo ttyl

^scum post^

[I Am Innocent]

Dessew, please comment on your thoughts on cyberbob refusing to provide reads

[I Am Innocent]

Pops/goofydood, please provide your read on cyberbob

[I Am Innocent]

Pops read <> read on every player

[I Am Innocent]

So thanks for not reading my posts, I too have spring in my step now

[I Am Innocent]

Cyberbob, please comment on the fact that your role includes the word mafia

[I Am Innocent]

Why are u refusing to post your reads?

[I Am Innocent]

Off to the beach, setting the odds at 5% that cyberscum produces a list from towniest to scummiest

[I Am Innocent]

Make that 2%

[I Am Innocent]

It started way back in rvs. Scum like to blend in (see cyberbob) town like to get the game moving. I did not see scum sleepy wanting to draw that attention early.

It's why I stayed away from both you and reinoe, it felt like a couple of town trying to move the game forward.

Okay srsly off to the beach now

[I Am Innocent]

Wow that was a big vote I didn't expect. If pops flips scum, goofy is all but guaranteed town in my eyes.

mod are you willing to give an extension for D2 until becks replacement is found?

[I Am Innocent]

RC I did no such thing, so stop insinuating it already.

Was baiting scum to attack such a thing (see cyberbobs reaction) as well as point out my top town read.

[I Am Innocent]

Going to do some vote count analysis, for Dessew/RC/guessing CyberBob when he checks in, we have two dead townies. Do you know how many times those dead townies received my vote? ZERO.

How about analyzing the wagons yourselves to see where scum is on there. Cyberbob's vote early D1 (3rd on Reinoe) got my attention early. It was why I jumped on him. Guarantee that scum was on those wagons, so how about "analyzing" them rather than OMGUS'ing, RC? Dessew, same challenge goes to you.

Dessew this is what I said which is different than what u claimed I said.

Didn't know it was rocket science that says scum usually vote town...

[I Am Innocent]

Because he mentioned 3 possible scum when he unvoted but yet didn't throw out a vote. No vote = no pressure, so why would town not want to pressure one of their scum reads.

Or in the case of scum, they tend to throw out a few names, see 'which way the wind blows' and then vote along with the group.

The latter is what I felt pops might be doing.

[I Am Innocent]

Squirrel girl, what do u think of a player who is asked to produce his or her reads on all players but refuses to do so? Esp when they are tunneling one player, and have been on both confirmed town wagons?

Also please define weakest looking players, cause I do take offense to that.

[I Am Innocent]

Hi scum!

[I Am Innocent]

Lurk much?

[I Am Innocent]

I'd be willing to self vote if the group agreed to lynch cyberbob D3...serious offer at this point.

[I Am Innocent]

I will claim when someone not on my wagon states an intent to hammer.

Also rarely get lynched. I've probably been declared as most valuable town more often than I've been lynched as town. RC and pops were in one of those game and should know better...

And as scum I'm even better, my play is very similar to bobs this game.

Bunch of idiots this game. Outside of farside, I've been extremely disappointed in the play this game.

Best move is to lynch me, see I'm town and auto lynch bob D3. Then hope there is only 2 scum or that someone like farside is still alive and can get u through mylo.

Looking forward to the post game where I can laugh at most of u...

[I Am Innocent]

Never mind, see sleepy is calling intent. Vanilla town.

[I Am Innocent]

Cyberbob is def scum

Farside is town

Rest is really up in the air, but guess at least 1 other scum was on the reinoe and Drew wagons.

If pops is scum squirrel girl could be a 3rd teammate.

Good luck farside, rest of u town good luck on learning how to play this game, cause u sucked real bad....reinoe, Drew, now me...just terrible

[I Am Innocent]

Squirrel u are either scum or suck at this game, just saying.

[I Am Innocent]

Autolynch bob D3, and some of the bad play will be forgiven.

[I Am Innocent]

Before u insult me maybe u should meta me next time.

[I Am Innocent]

Also might clue u in between my town and scum play.

Interesting how u look into pops meta to defend him, but just make blanket assumptions about me.

[I Am Innocent]

Well there was a caveat in there, u could be scum instead.

[I Am Innocent]

Before u insult me maybe u should meta me next time.

This is the first time you've mentioned meta all game.

Well when one player uses it to defend one wagon but ignores it completely for the other wagon, and then makes an assumption I'm a weak mafia player who always gets lynched, I'm gonna say something

[I Am Innocent]

Pick any game other than my previous 2, which I flaked due to real life issues.

[I Am Innocent]

Why did u use it for pops and not me?

[I Am Innocent]

If u think I'm scum, me providing links doesn't work (scum IAI will show scum games different from my play style here and town games similar to my play style here).

[I Am Innocent]

I can tell u I've three times self voted as town, and made it to the end game in two of them (all three games town won)

As scum I once crumbed a cop role as a mafia traitor, and didn't get one town, but two town mislynched on my 'investigation' results lol. That was a classic that the scum team was nominated for a scummy.

Which sounds more like the IAI of this game

[I Am Innocent]

I tend to try to stir things up as town, which sometimes gets me attention like this

[I Am Innocent]

Will you vote cyberbob when I flip town?

[I Am Innocent]

Dessew, RC, pops, same question for u.

[I Am Innocent]

Want this on record

[I Am Innocent]

So when I flip town u will vote cyberbob, correct?

[I Am Innocent]

Don't be fooled by a fake claim, but fair enough

[I Am Innocent]

Pops, dessew, RC, ur turn.

If u all give me the right answer, I'll self hammer even

[I Am Innocent]

Lol ur stubborn

[I Am Innocent]

What do u think about the wagons on reinoe and Drew? I've been blasted by most players here for my thoughts on those wagons.

[I Am Innocent]

Just another thought if I'm the lynch and a non investigative role dies N2, I would suggest no lynching to 1) get to an odd number of players & 2) giving a potential investigative role one more night to investigate.

My guess is if there is 3 scum we likely have an investigative power, with 2 scum not, but an extra lynch.

Just something to think about

[I Am Innocent]

He's dead...what did he flip (aka his role)

Stop reaching people

[I Am Innocent]

Cyberbob once again ur lying

I pointed 5 people that were on two confirmed town wagons

Obv not all 5 people are scum, but that sure seems like a better place to start than someone who has voted 0 confirmed town

How this has blown up to an L-1 wagon is beyond me

[I Am Innocent]

He's confirmed now!

[I Am Innocent]

We have two of them now!

[I Am Innocent]

Why is just about everybody ignoring who voted them!?!?

[I Am Innocent]

Five people voted two confirmed town!

RC is that relevant to scum hunting?

Or is it random for both town and scum like dessew hinted earlier

[I Am Innocent]

Bob was on drews lynching wagon was he not?

Drew is a confirmed town vig is he not?

What am I missing in ur eyes???

[I Am Innocent]

He was not confirmed before he died, he never claimed.

My analysis was day 2 after the flip

[I Am Innocent]

Confirmed now doesn't mean anything. You're attacking Bob for voting Drew before his death. Bob isn't voting Drew now.

How does confirmed now mean nothing?

Don't scum know who the town are and are more likely to vote them?

[I Am Innocent]

I'm not retracting anything, but if u want to call it clarification then okay

[I Am Innocent]

Thank u farside phone posting stinks

[I Am Innocent]

Just change confirmed to now confirmed

Honestly that's what I meant

[I Am Innocent]

No I thought it was obvious. Reinoe and Drew were not confirmed town until the start of D2

[I Am Innocent]

Didn't think the word now was needed

[I Am Innocent]

You would be one of my other suspicions, IAI, but that vacay post placated me to a good extent.

unvote

Skrew is one of my other suspects. As I expressed D1, I feel like the Skrew vs. reinoe drivel that lasted all D1 didn't seem like town vs. town, and Skrew seems excessively defensive all game.

Goofydood and Beck are not my favorite slots either

Why unvote without a follow up vote to one of these 3 players? And what about my question about what you like from Cyberbob so far?

Is it the votes for the two confirmed town so far? I know he has voted a 3rd townie (me), and his only other suspect hinges on my guilt (which my flip will nullify as I'm town).

No other reads from him at this point.

So once again, what did you like from Cyberbob?

Pops I asked u that question twice now, and u never answered, what is the case u liked from cyberbob?

So since u brought it up again, please answer the question already

[I Am Innocent]

Pops who are ur town reads? Other scum reads?

Why are you not interested in leaving this information behind???

[I Am Innocent]

Lynch bob tomorrow people.

No hard feelings from my end, hope none of u have them as well...

Good luck town, ur gonna need it

[I Am Innocent]

Bob, pops, dessew are most likely scum on my wagon

Goofy was the most likely on pops

Rest likely town

Farside is so obv town it hurts...lynch her and I laugh at u all postgame.

And thanks mod, overall I had fun

[I Am Innocent]

Farside u should rescind that request, u are a great player!

[I Am Innocent]

There's a difference between mad and insulting.

Let's see after pokerface shows alignment if I have a right to be insulting people.

Mafia is a game.

Agreed! No hard feelings bob? (Cough cough scum)

[I Am Innocent]

And a lot of wins to show for it bob!

[I Am Innocent]

I heard u and hence why I was willing to compromise with pops.

Def don't hate u, bob has played a very smooth game actually, his scum tells were very subtle.

[I Am Innocent]

Screw u buddy

Learn how to play mafia

That makes u 3 for 3 on soon to be confirmed town.

I on the other hand apparently had better reads than u, cyberbob, and RC (combined 9 for 9 on those town)

So ur just going to have to DARE to take me at my scumhunting skills..

[I Am Innocent]

Tried to explain it to u earlier, ask urself, what would I do in this situation if I was scum...

Cyberbob has been hitting in almost all of them

How about those reads now bob lolololol

Can't wait to see who u target D3

[I Am Innocent]

vote cyberbob

[I Am Innocent]

@Squirrel: interesting. Farside's been pushing pops for quite a long time. If they're both scum, it's the most brutal and pointless bussing I've ever heard of (aside from dayvigging a buddy who's not been pressured at all and other nonsense.) So my conclusion, or more like the natural conclusion imo is that those two cannot be buddies. Any opinion on this?

Ur scumhunting abilities never cease to amaze me

[I Am Innocent]

@Squirrel: I expected you to have a weak associative read on pops then if nothing else. Since your main suspect seems to be farside, you know. NOTE: I'm not saying that there should be a strong or an independent read on him, but having a null on the player who's got so distinctive exchanges with one's strong scumread is suprising. I'm not sure what to make out of it, though. One more thing to look into.

Set up for his D3 mislynch...

Why don't u just go into hiding like pops and cyberbob lol

[I Am Innocent]

As I said I've seen more fake claim like renioe did from town.
This is the second game scum fake claimed a protective role and one did not exsist.
Sigh.

Yes this was my biggest regret. Tried to outthink the setup vs focusing on scumhunting. Everything inside me kept saying RC was scum, but yet the lack of a protective role had me 2nd guessing myself D2.

RC hope we are still cool...u were the reason I signed up for this game after all.

Farside, u were the best townie by far.

Squirrel girl, well done as scum, had I lived I think I would have been faked out by your continued play.

Dessew and bob, well as my mom used to say, if u don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. :p

Thanks poker for modding, hopefully I didn't get too out of line at the end of D2.

[I Am Innocent]

Sleepy, I stand by what I said in the game, that hammer without a claim was the wrong move. There was still time and another player who said she would hammer too...

[I Am Innocent]

I for one do not believe RC's claim. Bodyguard is an easy claim to fake for scum.

If RC's wagon falls apart, I am going to move my vote back to Cooldog, though I'm starting to feel there is only 1 scum in {RC, Cooldog}. VT claim/my suspicion of that slot would take precedence over suspicion I have for others at this point (who have not claimed), hence why my vote would go back there.

For dessew

[I Am Innocent]

I for one do not believe RC's claim. Bodyguard is an easy claim to fake for scum.

If RC's wagon falls apart, I am going to move my vote back to Cooldog, though I'm starting to feel there is only 1 scum in {RC, Cooldog}. VT claim/my suspicion of that slot would take precedence over suspicion I have for others at this point (who have not claimed), hence why my vote would go back there.

For dessew

Iirc, you posted that, then ad nauseam came, right? Mafia isn't about just the reads, you have to get people vote the player you want to lynch.

So it's my fault your play absolutely sucked this game? You're amazing dude...

Mafia 101...maybe you and bob should stop making fun of that now and finally admit I was right...

Scum get some credit for the win, but you two get much more in my opinion!

[I Am Innocent]

Your play was THAT bad that yes I thought you were scum. Even tho I was wrong urs or dessews lynch d1 would have probably enhanced towns chances of winning a whole lot lol.

But if you really want me to go back and compare reads as a whole, I think we'll see yes I was right more often than not, while the two of you were almost always wrong.

Farside town read the whole game
Sleepy and reinoe, never pushed either of them as I said likely town vs town
By end of D1 I said cooldog and Drew were both town wagons, and only wanted to vote cooldog over Drew since he claimed VT
Did not believe RC's claim, along with Drew was the only one voting him post claim
Called his claim easy to fake and not worth saving...BGs do not protect from NKs, they only deflect them, while many others ridiculously said that power role was something of value
Properly treated dessew like the VI he played like

shall I go on? Would you like to take a turn?

[I Am Innocent]

I mean at least I can admit that I sucked pretty hard, you and reinoe don't have the stones to even vaguely cop to your faults. Which is totally fine, it's more or less how I expected you to act, but it is a little depressing.

You don't think you were an obnoxious prick this game bob?

The only thing worse than an obnoxious prick who is right most of the time is an obnoxious prick who is wrong most of the time.

In all seriousness, hopefully u and dessew learned that I have some skills at this game and maybe u'll learn to follow my lead next time. Otherwise we'll keep losing together cause I have no trust in either of ur scumhunting skills. Not trying to be mean, just my honest take on it.

I'm out guys...despite a few players screwing this up for town, I did have a very fun time!