Mini 458 - Game over!
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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just testing.. I'm not sure how the dice tags workMastermind of Sin wrote:Original Roll String: 1d12(STATIC) 1 12-Sided Dice: (9) = 9
[/dice]Original Roll String: 1d12(STATIC) 1 12-Sided Dice: (9) = 9-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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more testingOriginal Roll String: 1d121 12-Sided Dice: (11) = 11-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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testing...Original Roll String: 1d121 12-Sided Dice: (6) = 6-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Independent confirmation: It was indeed 11:46. Lynch the liar? [/joke]-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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trying to figure out the reason for a novote just gave me a headache.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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J-man & molestargazer were the last to confirm, which to me means that they are the most likely to have been engaging in PMs before game start. placing the second vote on carrotcake is another thing that sends a up a flag, but analysis of silly votes does seem a little..... silly.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Looking at activity logs, molestarman didn't post at all while the rest of us were confirming, and J-man had only one other post, just an hour before he confirmed. I guess I should've checked the logs before I gave voice to my hunch. My bad. I always imagined that scum would plan out elaborate plans requiring military precision, and that would take time. Does that mean we may have sloppy and unprepared scum who won't be all on the same page? I am a newbie, just in case that last question doesn't give it away.fak wrote:I agree that being last to confirm doesn't mean much.
Bringing up the last-to-confirm-theory seems more suspicious, but that's not much either.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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<- Colorado native. They do have internets there, I promise.
How far are you willing to take the tromboner bandwagon? Are there more open seats? Does it have a/c and a good stereo? Leather seats and minibar?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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no, no, you are just the draft animal. Yep, we're in a wagon being pulled by a mole. Exciting stuff.
A general question for the rest of you: where do you stand on the "lynch the lurkers" tactic? I think that on Day 1 the player with the least posted activity (content consisting of insightful posts, original opinions, FoSs and votes,notword count) should always have a wagon until a very convincing case can be built for one player.
In general, I think it is better to wait untiltwoconvincing cases can be built. The debate between the proponents of each case could be very illuminating.
It is all about generating enough information to make an informed decision.
Anyway, I'll suggest unorthodox tactics throughout the game. Some people think Mafia is a game about social conformity. "The nail that sticks up get hammered down." I'm an iconoclast and I just do not operate that way. So, fair warning.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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So that would be "almost-lynch the lurkers". And if they just don't cooperate, what then? "We might lynch the lurkers"?pickemgenius wrote:I don't like lynch the lurkers, as much as i'd rather have pressure applied to the point where they start to give us information, so that we can find connections for the later days. That's just my opinion.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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I guess I use a slightly more robust definition of lurking. I consider the player who pops in every two or three days to parrot an opinion or make an obvious observation to be lurking, and they can not be replaced.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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I think that is a conversation that should wait until push comes to shove.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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When are the GCSEs over?
Why wouldn't it be a good idea then for scum to lurk if they are given a pass for day one, and on day 2 they weren't on the bandwagon of a mis-lynch?
Yes I am new here, but the current meta seems slightly broken in favor of Mafia to me. All they have to do is post enough to not get replaced, and let the active townies pressure each other enough to out the power roles. Then, if an outed power role is not killed night 1, and was on the wagon for a mislynch, accusations of "fake claim" tend to stick, resulting in a mislynch day 2. That leaves town in day 3 nearly in a lynch or loose position depending on the number of scum (usually 3 or 4, right?).
Advantage: scum.
Please tell me that I am wrong, or how to stop this from happening.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Isn't this pretty much the scenario I outlined? One player speks up with an opinion, and so quickly the masses surround him. One poorly worded post by J-man and we could have an easy mis-lynch with no good leads for day 2. How is that pro-town.
Big-ups for J-man for a. finding a decent reason to cast a vote (no lynch vote) and b. supporting it with a second (lurking).-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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While I don't like the posts by J-man so far, I'm going to wait for a little more evidence to base an opinion on.
So what is your prescribed course of action? Target those who chase lurkers? Ignore lurkers as if they aren't in the game?ThAdmiral wrote:Voting for lurkers is often a mafia strategy, as they know that they only have to post enough to not be classified lurkers.
It also means that the person killed doesn't provide the town with much information, as he probably didn't get on enough to accuse people etc.
In my opinion our initial objective should be to pressure all players into posting enough content that a reasonable case can be made against a couple players, and a reasonable case can be made for clearing the rest. So long as there is a player out there that I don't have enough information on to found an opinion upon, I'll refuse to extend that player the benefit of the doubt.
ThAdmiral: could you clarify your post, or do you stand by your words as they currently exist?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Especially since J-man was the biggest promoter of a pro-town tactic that would quickly identify dylan41985 as potential scum. If dylan was scum planning on lurking into day 2 and beyond, a bandwagon on J-man would provide his best cover... so when J-man identifies him as a lurker is would seem OMGUSy.
Huh. I just sold myself on that theory.
unvote:molestargazerfor lurking and casting a suspect vote.
vote:dylan41985-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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So Kate doesn't like the size of a bandwagon on J-man. But she also doesn't like my rationale for defending him. She thinks the person I voted for did something pretty scummy, but I get her vote anyway. For jumping on a "bandwagon" by casting the second vote. When someone else is -2 to lynch.Kate wrote:So J-man now has 5 votes, with seven to lynch...great idea town! put him in a position where mafia can easily kill him!
{snip}
This was right after pickemgenius said something about dylan. And Adel's reasoning didn't seem very good, it seems to me he keeps saying people are scum because of what they will do in the future; that doesn't count as proof. However, what what's-his-face(dylan-something) did was pretty scummy, the way he just dropped in and voted without much reasoning, but I still think Adel is more scum.
Vote:Adel
If there is logic in that argument, could someone explain it to me? It seems really inconsistent to me.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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BM = Battle Mage, apparently the most popular player on mafiascum.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Commonly used abbreviations and there is lots of other goodness on the wiki. You've been registered here for a couple of months longer than me, WIFOM is pretty basic and is commonly used.
I did defend J-man, in an oblique way.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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In my last post, there are words that are blue, & they are a link to the page on the wiki where those abbreviations and many others are defined.Kate wrote:I've only played in one other game, and WIFOM is used alot, however I still don't know what it means or any of the other crap you guys say-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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I do not want J-man to claim. If he is just a townie no one will believe him, is he is a power role then the scum benefit, and if he is scum he will claim a power role and get a pass for the rest of the day and probably beyond. I don't see any of those outcomes really benefiting the town.
His scumtells to date aren't that significant to me, later they may be, but not yet. I have no problem with the votes that are on him, but it iswaytoo early to lynchanyone. What is our deadline? Right, we do not have one.
On the other hand, with my 2.5 games of experience, I may be missing something.
Why would it begoodfor J-man to claim? There very well may be a reason I am not familiar with.
J-man, I would like to see you defend yourself point by point.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Dude, J-man, you aren't doing yourself any favors. Saying that you aren't a werewolf, then saying that you felt the temptation to fakeclaim, and then claiming vanilla townie? I'm starting to feel the temptation to vote for you now. It isn't so much what you say as it is the way you say it, that makes you look scummy. You need to put more words up in your own defense.
Why do you have a FoS on MOS? OMGUS? Again, it does look that way.
If it was then a mass roleclaim on day 1 would be a good idea. If early claims are pro-town, then all power roles (with obvious exceptions) should claim in the same line as their random vote.Mastermind of Sin wrote:Adel, by your logic, no one should ever claim. Do you really believe that it is helpful for the town to have no one ever claim?
If claiming is protown, then we shouldn't have to apply the pressure of a lynch for power roles to claim.
Are you suggesting that all cops should announce themselves immediately? How about vigs? Masons? Docs? Then why is pressuring someone for a claim, based on very little evidence, a good idea?
I may be missing something, if I am, please illuminate me.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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I agree with that.Mastermind of Sin wrote:However, it is extremely unhelpful for the town for someone to refuse to claim when they are about to be lynched.
I think I was interpreting your case to be that we should bandwagon players in sequence until each player claims, or looks scummy enough for someone to drop the hammer.
Regarding J-man, i have my doubts, but not enough to vote for him yet, and certainlynotenough to support his lynching.
Question for entire town: J-man claimed vanilla, do you believe him?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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I didn't see him as being about to be lynched at this point. I thought it was way too early for anyone to be endorsing that. I saw this as a bandwagon on slight evidence just being used as an excuse to pressure a power role into outing himself.Mastermind of Sin wrote:I would like J-Man to claim.
If anyone thought that there was enough reason to cast the last two votes (hard to quantify), then J-man obviously should claim.
I do not know what to make of his role claim of vanilla.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Good questions Admiral, similar to the one I posted earlier.
Yes.ThAdmiral wrote:Also, does anyone find it ironic, not to mention hypocritical, that j-man wanted a quick-lynch, and now that he is facing a potential one he is saying it would be a bad idea?
Did you miss my earlier post directed at you?
I do not like the possibility of J-Man being lynched while we still have so many players that I have so little information on.Adel wrote:While I don't like the posts by J-man so far, I'm going to wait for a little more evidence to base an opinion on.
So what is your prescribed course of action? Target those who chase lurkers? Ignore lurkers as if they aren't in the game?ThAdmiral wrote:Voting for lurkers is often a mafia strategy, as they know that they only have to post enough to not be classified lurkers.
It also means that the person killed doesn't provide the town with much information, as he probably didn't get on enough to accuse people etc.
In my opinion our initial objective should be to pressure all players into posting enough content that a reasonable case can be made against a couple players, and a reasonable case can be made for clearing the rest. So long as there is a player out there that I don't have enough information on to found an opinion upon, I'll refuse to extend that player the benefit of the doubt.
ThAdmiral: could you clarify your post, or do you stand by your words as they currently exist?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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MOS, I apologize for this horrible play so far.
Asking for a claim at -2 is not a scumtell!
There is a good case to be made for it, I disagree with it, but there is nothing inherently scummy about thinking that way. Waiting until -1 for a claim could a)result in an unaware noobie dropping the hammer or b)scum dropping the hammer.
I was hoping that J-man would argue his way out of his wagon without resorting to a claim, for the reasons I stated above. He has failed so far. My read is inexperienced scum.unvote vote: J-man
Note: J-Man is at -1 to lynch! No one vote for him without a dang good reason!
The pressure is on now. J-man: why are you not scum? What have you done that is pro-town? Who is a better candidate for scum than you? What have they done that is anti-town?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Came back to make sure I didn't want to unvote before going to sleep. I feel ok with J-man being at -1. I would prefer to wait longer for a lynch, but his horrid posts are screaming "inexperienced scum" to me. More pressure is called for. He will have a chance to answer.-
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Are you trying to blackmail the town by threatening to make a fake-claim?J-man wrote:i am going to post my full defence in 6 hours time if still at -1 to lynch you guys better be sure this is what you want by then.-
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I'm taking a step back. My read on J-Man is still that he is unexperienced scum in a panic, if he bluffed twice, I don't know what would stop him from bluffing a third time since it seems to be his play style.
However,
TheAdmiral and MoS both seem pretty above board. At least one of them isn't scum- the odds of both of them being scum with J-man,andbeing on his bandwagon are awfully slim.
unvote:J-manPlacing pressure on pickemgenuis may be a good idea. He was active, and had several chances to join the bandwagon. If he is scum and J-man is town, then what would keep pickemgenius from joining the bandwagon, not as the hammer but before that? Scum-buddies already on the wagon. Alternatively, his actions make sense if both J-man and pickemgenuis are scum together. Good play would be preventing the lynch without associating too closely with his buddy, while still being in a position to be the hammer if the lynch appears inevitable.
I'll take a step back at this point. I am not confident of my ability to choose the correct course from here. Pressuring some lurkers into posting may be a good idea at some point in the future. Several players are at only 4 or 5 posts, and a couple of them were on the J-man wagon.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Increase in information. No more needs to be said.Kate wrote:Tell me how this helped us.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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vote:dylan41985I don't like the avatar, and I don't like the lurking.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Repeated for emphasis:
In my opinion our initial objective should be to pressure all players into posting enough content that a reasonable case can be made against a couple players, and a reasonable case can be made for clearing the rest. So long as there is a player out there that I don't have enough information on to found an opinion upon, I'll refuse to extend that player the benefit of the doubt.
My wall of shame
Carrotcake: 7 posts, last post on Saturdayneeds a prod, has posted in other games as late as today, no content
DanMonkey: 4 posts, last post on Sunday, consistent with other games, almost needs a prod, no content.
dylan41985: 5 posts, last post today, made 10 other game posts today, was on J-man bandwagon, no content
fak: 4 posts, last post on Saturdayneeds a prod, made 11 posts in other games as late as Monday, was on J-man bandwagon, no content
molestargazer: 9 posts, last post on Sunday, almost needs a prod, only current game on mafiascum, very little content
Tromboner: 10 posts, last post on Tuesday, consistent with other games, was on J-man bandwagon. very little content
Note: I am human, and I make mistakes. If I made one, please point it out, and I'll apologize.
pickemgenius has plenty of posts, but they seem a little skimpy or wishy washy to me. Low content. He very nearly made the wall.
We have several town players who are hurting the town by not being active. If you want to win, start posting. About one post a day is considered polite, as is announcing if you are going to be gone for more than 48 hours. Start posting, and put some opinions in them. If you are town, you do not need to worry about a quick-lynch. Just be honest and open, and it will all work out just fine for us. Continued lurking will only hurt us.
Mod: Respectfully request a prod for Carrotcake and fak, and possibly for molestargazer and DanMonkey-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Good luck on your exams. I understand that they're more important- and it speaks to your favor that you aren't posting in other games while ignoring this one.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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I agree that his example is crap. However, if he would've just written "not defending yourself seems scummy to me" I wouldn't see a problem with it, and that is the case behind his example. He didn't vote for J-man, and had several chances to. He used a crap example in support a valid opinion. Hanlon's razor may apply. I have other problems with him which I feel are of greater importance.
pickemgenius: How scummy or innocent do you currently consider J-man to be? What relationships do you see between J-man and other players, both positive and negative? What do you make of Kate at this point?-
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Do you have enough confidence in your conclusion that you would be happy to see him hang without additional evidence?-
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Oh, and I totally don't expect you to answer that if you think you have a decent reason not to. I didn't think it through all of the way.-
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Yeah, well "edit" and "delete" weren't options. I only post half of the posts I actually write. A bad one made it through Quality Assurance.
Anyway, I'm not on the pickemgenius wagon- yet.
I don't like the low activity level in this game. There are scum among the lurkers.-
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I find the interaction between Kate and pickemgenuis interesting.
Kate: I would like to see you ask pickemgenuis more questions. What would be so obvious about an Adel&pickemgenuis scumpair?-
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unvote:dylan41985and just for emphasisvote dylan41985again.-
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Waiting for prodded players and other lurkers to roger up and post something.-
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pickemgenius wrote:Please again tell me where I imply I want J-man to be lynched.FoS:pickemgeniusfor not seeing that it is clearly there.-
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Yes. But.... J-man still look a little guilty, dylan41985 isn't doing much to clear himself, and we have two replacements coming in who are suspect to begin with. I fear the danger will be too many good scum candidates to choose from. You're doing a good job with pickemgenius so far. I bet I'll be on that wagon sooner or later.-
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Lets see you answer your own questions.pickemgenius (corrected by Adel) wrote:1.whatwhy theserious slip up?
2.howwhyam I trying to feign ignorance from what i've done?
3. Please again tell mewherewhyI imply/say I want J-man to be lynched.
unvote:dylan41985 vote:pickemgenius
My vote may swing back to dylan41985 at any time for tactical reasons. If I could put 1/2 vote on each I would.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Can we do that?
huh, well, lets try.
1/2unvote:pickemgenius 1/2vote:dylan41985-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Curses! I was going to try decimal votes next, and then try conditional voting ("if"&"then", "for"&"do"and others)Per wrote:Indeed, Adel's 1/2 vote has been ignored.
pickemgenius: how do you see j-man now? Who is scummier?-
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I sure MoS will make a more spirited defense, but it did seem a little like pickemgenuis in the post in question was eitherHungryJoe wrote:You guys are freaking out on pickem for what seems to be absolutely nothing.
a)giving subtle encouragement for someone else to drop the hammer,
b) fishing for an excuse to drop the hammer, or
c)making a strong pro-town statement in slight defense of a townie he knew was about to be mis-lynched.
I think a) is the most likely, and c) is the least, but all of them are possible outcomes that would benefit pickemgenuis is he were scum and J-man is town. I didn't take that post to be too scummy. pickemgenius's later defense of that post seemed a little scummy though, and MoS seems really convinced.
The primary scumtell I'm holding against pickemgenuis is a low content:postiness ratio. Which is exactly what you accused me of. Ironic.
I <3 being called odd. Thanks.
J-man, pickemgenuis, and dylan are my scummiest, which isn't saying much since MoS and the Admiral are the only ones I've kinda cleard in my head. Kate I don't know about, and the others haven't posted enough, yet.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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That isn't always true. Just leave it at that.Mastermind of Sin wrote:Only scum try to coerce people into doing their job for them.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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*sigh*dylan41985 wrote:it is kind of suspicious that Mastermind of Sin confidently states that "J-man is not scum." Are they working together?
Mastermind - can you explain why he isn't scum?unvote:pickemgenius vote:dylan41985-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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I don't know about the others, but I use a modified definition for lurking. Lurking does not just equal low word count. Not posting to the point of being replaced is not lurking, IMHO, that is just leaving the game in a very impolite way. Only making occasional useless posts is lurking, posting without original insights or opinions is lurking. The kind of lurking Dylan is doing is a big scumtell, the kind that Danthemonkey did isn't because he just got replaced.NabakovNabakov wrote:One more thing. I can understand the hatin' on Dylan, but it seems odd that you guys are gonna lynch him for being the most active of the lurkers. At least be consistent and lynch the biggest lurker (probably DanMonkey).-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Fear of the noose can be a wonderful motivator for good posting behavior. Look at dylan41985's post history in this thread. 10 posts, ~10 words per post if you don't count the votes and unvotes. He drops about 3 scum tells by my count. He is almost the complete package- what is not to love there? He just needs aribbonaround his neck and he will be good to go.rope
... either that or start banging out some words on that keyboard, pronto.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Welcome ABR!
Why would you request to replace Tromboner? In other words, what was your specific request, and why?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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So the new way to defend yourself is to not defend yourself. Huh. I think I like it.unvote:dylan41985for consistently not posting content, oh the irony.
Lets talk some more. I 'm starting to get worried that he in an inexperienced newbie and not inexperienced scum.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Save your breath for doing some explaining. I am often capricious and I may suddenly hammer you if you don't start talking. I'm giving you some time to change my mind and the minds of the other voters, that is all.
curiouskarmadog: could you elaborate on why you think dylan is scummy?
dylan: could you spend some time identifying the major points in the case against you, and responding to them?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Let me know if there are any mistakes. If there are three mistakes I'll post an errata. I started from post 41 because that was more or less the end of the random voting. I left DanMonkey's random up as an exception since dylan was so close to lynch so many times.-
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