Mini 1602: Game Over

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BOOM!

I'm a little busy today, but I'll read up tonight!

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Hey Anen! I'm doing this one just like BPC's game, but with more proficiency. If you remember what I required upon replacing in, go do it please!

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I'm reading up, sorry. Should be caught up tomorrow-ish.

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birds are dumb

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Halfway through the game. Turning in for the night. You guys are on the top of the priority list.

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phok and implosion are still alive and still the original players, right?

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Not this asshole :/

Ily2 <3

first blush scumpool is {DV, implosion, phok}

townsies are {mala, notty**, Aneninenenenen*, BPC}

*because he gave me the catchup summary. Although he's apparently a pidgeon-pervert, so...
**please post like mad until I really believe this.

I'm on a manic phase right now, so as soon as I stop PACING and PLAYING MAGIC i'm gonna go do VCA and WAGON ASSOCIATIVES.

it's hard to get a feel for nka without having been in the game at the time, so if anybody wants to pitch their tinfoil theories re: that, you can do so now.

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ARGH WHY ARENT YOU TOWNREADING ME STHAR

IT MAKES ME ANGRY

amidoinitrite

Can you try to put words to what you didn't like about tman pls shadow

what are you talking fool. i have a light townread on tman and a mollie-read on you.

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yeah thats what i said. a mollie-read.

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oh i get the joke. my bad.

good job.

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yeah not really feeling the shadow wagon.

After reviewing VCA, I feel good about my lynchpool.

let's try this:
VOTE: phok

sleeping on associatives. coming back in the morning

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we could lynch phok...

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Or the people who are saying "or we could lynch my preferred lynch" could join the current largest wagon.

*cough*

plenty of time for compromise. and i will if we get there. but BOTH of the top two wagons look scum-driven.

phok is the best wagon. As of right now, at compromise time I'm moving to DV.

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Dafuq is a mollie-read?

"You can be town until you've generated enough content that I can read you"

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Like, all the votes on shadow are terrible

and Z's slot is low hanging fruit.

If someone could be bothered to say WHY we're voting shadow? But I feel like if there were a good reason it would be in thread by now.

i'll be back on later, for compromise time.

But in the meantime, Z needs to fucking commit to a vote.

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If someone could be bothered to say WHY we're voting shadow? But I feel like if there were a good reason it would be in thread by now.

ISO me?

I... missed that spoiler when I was reading the thread. And when I went back to look for the cases, it didn't seem connected to the vote for some reason. Apologies, I'll read it right now.

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Okay so maybe I missed the case in the ISO because it was nowhere near the current vote on the wagon. Or maybe because it's a big hedgey pile of crap.

This

can be looked at as possibly

defending-without-really-defending, or trying to deter anything that looks like an accusation of Flames without really looking like deterring it.
[...]
This

looks like possible

coaching. It reads like scum telling scum "hey, you're being scummy, stop that."
[...]
Lots of qualification on the vote: he's only voting him because he doesn't have any strong suspicions, so it's easy to get out, but he still wants to be on the wagon. The vote

looks like

scum begrudgingly deciding to bus when they realize Flames is probably going down rather than town looking for scum. "Seeing as I don't have any other strong suspicions right now" also doesn't mesh very well with voting him to L-1, but those make plenty of sense together if it's a bus.
[...]
So he's concerned about the wagon, and about the people on it, yet is still happy with putting it at L-1. There's also the classic thing here of throwing a general accusation at a bandwagon rather than any individual people on it - if it's concerning that all of these votes are from wagonhoppers, then town-shaddowez should elaborate on what people are scummy because of it, and why those people are less deserving of a vote than Flames. He's also continuing to give himself an out with respect to the wagon.
[...]
Note that he unvoted because of the replacement. Here he gives more tentative support for lynching the slot without really committing.
[...]
This also

looks like

it could be scum trying to get on the wagon before it reaches the lynch because they see it as inevitable.
[...]
I would say the saying he ISO'd flames is a favor in point of shaddowez town,

but meh

. Similar comments apply to this as to everything else.
[...]
tl;dr: shaddowez's interactions towards the Flames slot, on the whole,

feel like

scum who doesn't want to push the slot, but wants to get towncred for being on the wagon.

Edited to remove quotes. Also, bolded for interesting phrasing.

The amount of noncommittal verbage is particularly staggering when you consider that one of implosions points against shadow is... noncommittal verbage. The "unvote because of replacement" thing is hilariously dumb, especially considering implosion's second vote for shadow. On the whole, the case looks to be implosion scumreading shadow for not being certain that flames was scum. Which is super questionable, and given implosion's scummy-as-hell voting record for day1, I'm not buying any turnips from this stall.

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Fucking hell. I'm left with a choice between a bad wagon that I'm sure is scum driven, and a VI/lurker policy lynch that JUST GOT REPLACED, IS NOT CAUGHT UP, and IS EASY TO READ.

I'm tempted to just not vote, but that's really fucking bad here.

I'll check in one more time before I go to bed.

p-edit: actually you know what? If I vote Z then I'm gambling that BPC will be online to hammer. I vote shadow and either of them can do it.


Gah fuck it

VOTE: shadow

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What's up notty?


Excellent bodyguard. I'm gonna go check DV for crumbs before anything else.

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At least two people wanted to lynch DV at the end of the day yesterday. Why would scum kill a viable wagon?

Nice try.

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Because scum only ever need one viable mislynch right?

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K so as far as I can tell, BPC was the probable bodyguard target. If nobody disagrees that probably means he's off the table, not that I was scumreading him anyway.

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better late than dead. feel better.

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Could you back this statement with some quotes?

By the way, I too think that DeasVail wasn't the original target. There are a couple of players who have been townread by most – or even: all – of us. The scums might have tried to shoot one of them.

629 and 631

@ implosion- the assumptions on which my logic is based are:
A. DV is a competent player
B. A successful bodyguard with announced target is slighty stronger than a tracker innocent (and also a good thing)
C. The safest and strongest method of crumbing a bodyguard is by announcing a townread on the target

It is probable that DV protected BPC. I don't believe BPC was a bad scumkill yesterday (unless there's something I'm missing?)

and with the last page, I'm happy to
VOTE: phok

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phok, obviously. the whole point of speculating on the nk was to see who would freak out at an attempt to narrow the lynch pool.

that's scummy as hell.

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i mean, you could also just iso the mod and look at his voting record

but whatever, keep on pushing that lurker wagon. You seem super invested and clearly know what you're doing.

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A. DV is a competent player

This does not imply that he crumbed a bodyguard target.

It does when combined with the other two premises.

Also there are better ways to crumb, i.e. use language that would obviously be a crumb but only in retrospect.

Provide examples.

Or use very, very strong language immediately before the day ends.

That's exactly what he did. His last expressed townread was "pretty sure BPC is town" and then an afterthought post justifying why. After that he spent every post trying to work out the lynch compromise, and he certainly wasn't on in twilight.

I'm still not convinced though, it can't be ruled out that the scums wanted to kill BPC.
Or – referring to your later posts – was this a reaction test?

I think the scum tried to shoot BPC, but DV was protecting him. I think that's a pretty decent indicator that BPC is likely town, and even though it doesn't

really

clear him I think he's playing town enough that I'm not going to be voting him in any foreseeable future.

I don't like the term 'reaction test,' but I was also absolutely making noise on this topic hoping for opposition. Opposition to POE after a scumflip is a pretty strong scumtell.

So I was "freaking out" because I wanted you to provide solid reasoning for why you thought it was a bodyguard attempt and not just a scum NK on DV? Seeing as to how you still have not provided anything convincing (once again, townread =/= bodyguard target) it seems to me like you're just trying to clear BPC with no real substance behind it.

Given your egregious conflation wrt scumtargets, I'm not interested in debating this with you. Your logic is either crap or you're scum. I don't really care if you are convinced.

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You're also just lying, he called BPC scum in his 4th last post and his 3rd last post has significant content. And his 4th last post was not right before the day ended, it was on the 10th. The day ended on the 13th.

Hi. Assertions that are unsupported by fact make you look either scummy or like an asshole.

Let's look at the last six posts DV made:

Spoiler: DV

<_<

Why do you two feel so weird to me.

Are you referring to BPC and me? If so, it's either because BPC is scum and I'm paranoid of him, or because we're both town and paranoid of each other. I am cautiously holding off on a decision there for the time being.

He clearly says that BPC

MIGHT

be scum and that he hasn't made a decision. So you're full of shit.

Ok, pretty sure BPC is town.

Oh look, he's reexamined and now BPC is town. No reasoning given.

Augggh, now you're just making me feel bad :'(

Well I would probably do that as scum yeah, but here it is because I actually think it.

To anyone that wants to know the reason:

BPC's best bet as scum is probably just to buddy me and it would probably work, and he might be able to have me lynched with other people suspecting me anyway. Light suspicion thrown my way would also work with this, and is what I'd probably expect from him as scum. Here though, he starts off townreading me (which fits the expected scum-BPC strat), but is now voting for me. This doesn't make much sense from him as scum. In his mind, it would likely only encourage me to suspect him (I'm not sure he would have predicted this response from me).

The only plausible reason for him to vote me as scum, is in an effort to save his buddy Shaddowez. However, even this I find unlikely due to how conspicuous it would feel to scum, being the only two on a town wagon.

So, I think BPC is town. If he has fooled me, well done to him.

And I'm town too.

Unsolicited reasoning, probably because he realized that a naked townread on BPC looked weird. Like, maybe the post had another meaning or something...

Also this is the fourth last post. I don't know how you managed to misread "BPC is town" as "BPC is scum" but I'm sure it took some contortions. Congratulations.

Erm... I know that I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box but something is strange.

I thought I was the only one who scumread BPC. And now I've seen that both MalaKitty and Phokdapolees calls him a possible scum. Have I skimmed over something? Or have these scumreads just come out of nowhere?

Oso was a pretty popular scumread!

So you're saying I'm the second best bet for scum, but not scummy, just not town, but you're voting me, not trying to find someone you actually think is scum?

Oh I think you're scum. I have never stopped thinking that you're scum. There is just nothing in particular I can point to in your posts that I think indicates scum. This is not incredibly surprising to me since scum are often quite actively trying not to look scummy. Sometimes they might succeed! However, I have much stronger reasons to think everyone else town (except for maybe ZZZX) than I do for you, so my conclusion at the moment is that you're scum doing a good job of avoiding posting scummy things.

~~

I would very happily go back to ZZZX but I need ZZZX to post. It's important.

discussing that he'd prefer to lynch shadow, but would move to z. Like, as in, a compromise.

Only lynches I'll consider right now are shaddowez or ZZZX if he posts and I'm not happy.

"These are the lynches I'll compromise on."

I love you all! (Yes even you, DV)

Well in that case, get your paws off me and go scratch someone else. <3

"Go put your vote on a productive wagon so we don't no lynch"

So yes, what I said was factually accurate and not 'lying.'

"Pretty sure" is strong language compared to "townlean" or "might be town" or "townish" or a dozen other things. But keep telling me about how you're an expert on DV's diction. That seems important.

Not crumbing your target eliminates a full half of the utility of the bodyguard role. Just saying.

It might be best for you to cite your sources from now on.

@everyone- I'm not voting for Z, and if you lynch him before he's posted game content you are terrible. I'm happy to look at any case on chaos that doesn't boil down to "he's a VI," but Z is a competent townplayer who is easy to read as scum. Quicklynching him before he's gotten into the game is wasteful.

Notty also needs to catch up, and I'm happy to give him a couple days since he's having personal issues atm.

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I did, at least one.

No, you didn't.

Also there are better ways to crumb, i.e. use language that would obviously be a crumb but only in retrospect.

Show me language that is obviously a bodyguard crumb, but only in retrospect, and is easier to drop or pick up than "I THINK THIS ONE PERSON IS TOWN, I HAVE OTHER TOWNREADS BUT THIS IS THE ONLY ONE I'M SPECIFICALLY MENTIONING"

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get that they might have made a mistake in assuming.

I have seen no evidence of this.

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BPC i believe you missed the whole point of my play today.


I'll be at work until probably 5 or six tomorrow morning. In the late-lates I'll need something to do, so I'll probably make my case on phok very clear.

If anybody's around then, I'm down to jam.

I'm considering spoilering every post from here on out to spite Agar.

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no shh. you're supposed to be ambivalent on him so he posts a ton.

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Ok so who wants to lynch that still?

I'm a little annoyed that he took my 4-6 am 'stay awake' activity away. Maybe I'll do pbp's instead.

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more votes on phok please.

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Busier than I thought at work. Back tonight.

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@Sthar8: what's your case against Phok?

Three salient points:

1. Resisting the narrowing of the lynch pool- I know you guys might disagree with this, but properly applied it is the single most effective scumtell I have ever used. It only applies to phok in the minor form, but unless he has a real case on BPC (which I don't see anywhere) he's majorly scummy.

2. His voting record. He's pretty clearly looking for easy lynches day 2, and day 1 reads like an archetypal "forced to bus my idiot partner."

3. His reaction to pressure on him was to lurk and replace. Looks like frustrated scum to me. Like, scum who lost a buddy to shitty play d1.

Not thrilled with bert's entrance, which is too bad because bert is awesome. NP is obvious town, which is again a point for phok-scum trying to push the mislynch while the slot was vacant, before it could get replaced and start looking like town.

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he didn't want to lynch BPC today. He wanted BPC to be a viable mislynch for later in the game.

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Like, town doesn't have to plan out who they think they can talk people into voting for on later days. That's a scumthing.

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Star8,

the zzx wagon didn't go off and nor did the NPAU wagon either.

I fail to see how Chaos, XXXZ or NPAU for that matter were town.

I want them dead.

So give me reasons why they are town.

hi bert

sure it looks like a cw but you were all on bad wagons. Who do you think the scum on shadow was?

Chaos is a VI, and all I see in his iso is bad reads and lurking. Excepting activity, his play meshes almost exactly with mini 1585, which anen should be able to confirm.

Z is really easy to read, and he was super lurky as town in Chosen, which ended right around when he replaced in here.

NP could have been lurky and done fine, but he's trying to solve the game.

there are better places for your vote. phok is scum and his partner is somewhere in the 'apathy' bloc.

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hi bert! how ya been?

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mala.

this is not how to win games.

use your thinker: why would scum-NP come into the game and fight against the apathy?

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what the fuck nacho

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that was a joke, for the record.
I heard you were having trouble keeping people in slots?

i could kiss you

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don't play with my jiggly parts like that though.

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washer is clearly not meant to store urine.

Get in here and play mafia with me, motherfucker.

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Where is he now, I'd ask.

You know, I get a weekend every now and again that I don't want to spend playing mafia. But then BAMF I'm back. It happens.

Bert is still scum.

townreads right now are : {mala, nacho, notty, np}.

If you guys don't want to lynch obvious scum, I would vote in {implosion, Agar} because feeding apathy.

Aneneneninenenen is probably town, so game is solved.

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@mod: V/LA through sunday.

bert is still obvscum.

The other is in {Agar, Anen}

DO NOT let those two go into lylo together.

I'll be back when I can.

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VOTE: Bert

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cephrir just sent me a pm about the day opening.

I need a reread just in case I'm biasing.

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anen needs to post.

and notty's not reassuring me on bert.

but, long posts...

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no.

probably bert. he's selectively meta-ing to discredit my read on him and being hyperactive to head off any wagon that forms on him.

i am still nervous that anen has not posted though.

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notty

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you're being a bad conftown.

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Hey so Bert is confirmed scum.

I caught the crumb in the first night-phase I was in the game. Go read my iso, I've been defending NP's slot without calling him town all game. I even made all that noise about BPC to try keeping his wagon from starting up again.

And bert's immediate reaction is "maybe we should lynch that?"

Plus he's conveniently "forgetting" about the last game we played in together where I correctly read him and setting up a dichotomy between me and anen.

VOTE: bert

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that was a hydra game

i'm talking about BPC's game. Where I townread you despite you being the worst bodyguard ever.

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1. I've been fighting against town apathy as often as I could. Go read my iso.
2. you have confirmed knowledge that I was sick and V/LA all last week.
3. if nacho had been a cop, killing him at night would have confirmed me as scum. If I were scum, he'd still be alive.

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Star now that I pulled up how you have never "townread" me "correctly," after you said you did -

It does not surprise me that you have no answer to my evidence of that old game.

With that said Your lack of visible re-evaluation is worrying

That is actually bullshit.

When I replaced into BPC's game you had a minor wagon on you based on you not playing in the fucking game. I unvoted and asked you why you were playing so terribly. The only way I could know that you were playing like shit instead of trying to win as scum was to be scumreading you. I came back to being ok with your lynch because YOU DIDNT PROTECT THE OBVIOUS AND CLAIMED INVESTIGATIVE ROLE and PARTICIPATED IN THE SHITTIEST, WORST QUICKLYNCH OF OBVIOUS TOWN I HAVE EVER SEEN. But the next day, despite having doubts about you I wound up voting WITH YOU on a scumlynch.

So yes, that is what the game looks like when you strip out all the context and my actions. But in the REAL world, where I live, I figured out that you were playing one of the shittiest, dumbest, worst games of mafia I had ever seen and DID NOT LYNCH you for it. Also known as CORRECTLY TOWNREADING.

Your false dichotomy between me and Anen today is bullshit. Your opening the lynch pool to include NP was bullshit. Your burst of energy, the only one you've had in the game, coming just before lylo right after your partner's lynch when someone suspects you, is bullshit.

Bert is scum. You guys are being morons.

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so bert

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game aside, i actually did townread you in that game.

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like, not using the word 'townread' doesn't mean it's not there.

And not walking you through a reread doesn't mean I didn't do it.

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I'm sorry. I'm just annoyed that I'm getting POE'd because the three of you happened to replace in successively after I spent so much effort playing to the players in the game. Replacements are fucking bullshit.

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@ Skrew I would like to request replacement

Thanks for the game guys. It was fun.