Mini 1596: Minimence I Game Over!!!

[DarkLightA]

We'll have just the same dilemma tomorrow though, except that we'll have one less obvtown player.

Frankly, I think it's worth the shot if htere's a chance of keeping you alive.

[DarkLightA]

Acryon, if we don't lynch hiplop, do you:
1. Think you being NKed would confirm him as scum?
2. Think there is a possibility that you won't be NKed?

[DarkLightA]

dla how sure are you hiplop is scum on a scale from 0 to 100

100. To me he is literally conf-scum. I'm only thinking about a gambit to protect acryon.

If we keep hiplop alive, acryon might survive the night as well because of it.

Or am I wrong?

You are wrong.

You are saying: Hiplop is scum and we are going to lynch him but lets keep him alive to try and force scum not to kill Acryon. Which scum would never do because they know not killing acryon doesn't help Hiplops survival chances (

and keeping conftown alive at this stage is beyond terrible

)

Lol, totally agree with the last part.

Jokes aside, I seem to be getting downvoted. If everyone thinks it's a horrible idea then fine, let's not.

[DarkLightA]

What the fuck DLA?

Sparing someone who you are 100% sure is scum to *potentially* (read: not) save someone you are (I'm guessing) 100% sure is town is beyond stupid and scummy.

Do you really think it is bad to leave scum alive if there is a chance it would bring the NK to the less obvtown players? Why?

I would like Elyse to answer this. No one else.

If we were to not lynch hiplop, who would you want to lynch instead?

I haven't decided.

[DarkLightA]

Leaving scum alive is never a good idea.

Ever.

What if, hypothetically, you're in a 9P game with one confirmed townie, and one scum who is confirmed to you, but no one else. This scum has claimed doctor. Would it not then be worth keeping the scum alive in order to prevent the NK of the conf-town?

I need an answer to the second question. Just name someone.

You

Not only is it not a good idea, but if hip saves me, then they just kill Slandaar, who is the closest to confirmed VT we have. So it doesn't help us at all.

The idea was to have hiplop JK Slandaar, not you.

If there is no support for my proposition, then we'll just go ahead and lynch hiplop.

[DarkLightA]

Well if he JKs Slandaar, then they just kill me. And that would happen when hip is scum or not. So unfortunately it doesn't do anything. Either myself or Slandaar are getting NKd tonight 100%, probably me.

If you think that's a certainty, then we'll go with hiplop.

VOTE: hiplop

DLA why was Red your top townread yesterday?

Basically, his posts felt townish when I isoed him. Lately he's felt scummier, but I'm undecided.

you were pushing me as the alternative when you came up with the plan:

UNVOTE:

An option would be lynching bob today, and asking hiplop to protect slandaar.

why change to elyse now you know the plan won't go through?

Stop putting words in my mouth. You've been useless this entire day and just echoed others' opinions. Elyse forced a decision from me, and I gave it. I never said I was lynching elyse. I never voted elyse. I never said I was lynching anyone but hiplop if my plan isn't viable.

I need an answer to the second question. Just name someone.

You

and why didn't you think the massclaim was a good idea?

*sigh* This question is 18 days late. Either way, my answer is that I don't like massclaims outside LyLo.

[DarkLightA]

Also I am now conftown as DLA would be willing to lynch me over hiplop to save acryon which would make no sense if we were scum together.

(DLA is confscum)

Woah! Walk me through this argument. And how am I confscum? Sure, you may think I am scum, but that doesn't make me confscum!

Hiplop is confscum from my perspective because there is literally no way everyone can play towards their wincon and him not having been lynched. You are not confscum from my perspective, but that post seems damn scummy.

[DarkLightA]

Hiplop is confscum

from my perspective

This part is very important.

Walk me through the truth of the premise "DLA is confscum" from your perspective, and/or from a universal perspective. Anyone can get impressive results from an argument if they start with false/unjustifiable premises.

[DarkLightA]

Is this your argument?

1. DarkLightA is scum.
2. If DarkLightA were scum, it would not make sense for DarkLightA to lynch a scumbuddy instead of hiplop.
3. DarkLightA was willing to lynch Elyse.
4. Therefore, Elyse is not DarkLightA's scumbuddy.
5. DarkLightA is scum (see 1), so Elyse is town.

[DarkLightA]

Because point 3 is literally the only valid premise.

[DarkLightA]

So yeah I know the common scumteam is hiplop/DLA/me and that's all fine and good except I'm town. So I'm trying to somehow prove that DLA and I are not buddies for the

inevitable 3p LyLo with me, Bob, and RC

.

This is really interesting. I've been unsure of Elyse (as with everyone else bar acryon, slandaar and hiplop), but those last posts really struck the scumdar for me.


I'll add this here too, which I found:

Why would you go after scum hiplop as scum elyse at this point?

I guess because his lynch seems inevitable?

As town I want to lynch him because I still think there's confirmed 1 scum between him and acryon and I don't think it's acryon.

If I were scum

, his lynch would be impending and it would look better if I supported it,

I guess

.[/quote]
Note the distancing from scumteam. Especially the "I guess", seemingly to give indication that she hasn't thought much about it. To me it seems indicative of scum.

[DarkLightA]

Our final lylo is far from inevitable. If Elyse gets me lynched it's game over.

[DarkLightA]

Ok so you're not going to explain why I'm scummy and instead say "I'm town".

Is it not obvious? You're falsely throwing around accusations of confscum when I'm far from conf-anything.

[DarkLightA]

The read doesn't make it scummy. The conf-part makes it scummy.

[DarkLightA]

We're not lynching slandaar.

[DarkLightA]

I don't know who is working harder to stop the hiplop wagon now, Slandaar or DLA. At least Slandaar is being upfront about it.

UNVOTE: hiplop

I need to think on this game. I thought the hiplop lynch would be a sure thing, but the way this is dragging makes me think I'm wrong about where I am going in this game. acryon, if you were me, what would you do?

Scumclaim

[DarkLightA]

How is saying "eventual 3p LyLo with Bob and RC" scummy?

I said it was interesting. I find it interesting how you are so certain about me being scum, which is information you can't possibly possess without being scum. Any town player is in the same situation, and wouldn't call a player confscum based on actions.

And also please explain how it's scummy for me to "not think about" what scum would do in this situation? Isn't that indicative of me being town??

Of course. However, what makes it scummy is not that you are thinking about it, but rather the way that you're portraying it. You're padding it in order to add more credibility to it being your first time thinking about it, which looks like scum trying to look like town.

DLA why are you ignoring my perfectly valid questions?

Also lol RC is prob third scum.

Oh yeah:
1. DLA is confscum, so me suspecting Elyse makes her conftown.
2. DLA now points at a scumslip RC made. Now that doesn't make Elyse think he's conftown?

Elyse is just playing for her own survival here.

[DarkLightA]

Hi hiplop

[DarkLightA]

Either the scumteam is me, RC and Elyse, or hiplop is scum. Those are mutually exclusive and I think we can agree on that. Take your pick.

[DarkLightA]

Lol. I like to think I have to more than half a brain.

Slandaar is correct in his interpretation. What I was saying wasn't a direct response, but rather a suggestion, in a way. Either hiplop is scum, or the scumteam is me, RC and Elyse. Note that the logic accepts what you're saying: if hiplop is scum, the argument doesn't say anything about the scumteam.

It applies to today's decision. If you think me, RC and Elyse are on a scumteam together, vote one of us. Otherwise, vote hiplop.

[DarkLightA]

Fair enough.

[DarkLightA]

Can we just lynch hiplop already?

[DarkLightA]

I've got a good idea, and I think you can get to that by PoE, but I'd rather keep the discussion for tomorrow so we don't give scum more information than we need to.

I'll still be here tomorrow, and I think you will too, so I'll tell you first thing tomorrow.

[DarkLightA]

From my perspective he's confscum. Does that help?

Town doesn't have a JK and a doctor. Trust me.

[DarkLightA]

That is correct. But I still have to consider Bob-scum tomorrow.

I think that's the most likely scumteam though.

Can't we discuss this tomorrow? Acryon, give us any extra reads and thoughts you have, and then let's lynch hiplop.

[DarkLightA]

Okay. I've just been thinking that the less knowledge scum have, the more likely they are to make a mistake before tomorrow.

[DarkLightA]

My read on Elyse came mainly from the pounding I got from her today. She was pushing me hard, calling me confscum based on her own reads/gut. Not something I see coming from town.

[DarkLightA]

Yeah, I was previously hoping that by not lynching hiplop you would be kept alive, but people seemed against that.

How do you read 1700?

[DarkLightA]

You know, that smiley works less well when you're referring to a post that happened just before. The smiley just appears to be looking at the post.

[DarkLightA]

Gg suckers!

...kidding. Hiplop is scum, and I'll see you all tomorrow.

[DarkLightA]

I was still hoping to see acryon alive here by some magic stroke of fortune, but, alas, we're not that lucky. Hiplop's death pretty much sealed it, even though it was practically sealed before (but I still had hope...)

I'm under the assumption that Slandaar is town. I completely agree with his reasoning on his own town-conf, in fact I was looking through hiplop's claims before he said it and came to the same conclusion. I just didn't want to share it as I wanted to limit the information available to scum regarding the NK possibilities.

Elyse was nullish to me for a long time, but recently it seems to me that her play has changed drastically. She is stating definitives rather than possibilities (see the post above this for an example), which doesn't seem very towny from my perspective.

I have nothing definitive on Bob, but I haven't felt that his posts have a scummy nature. His town read comes largely from PoE.

RC. For a long time I had much the same feeling about him that I have about Bob now. Some posts lately have struck me as really odd though. Especially this post:

I don't know who is working harder to stop the hiplop wagon now, Slandaar or DLA. At least Slandaar is being upfront about it.

UNVOTE: hiplop

I need to think on this game. I thought the hiplop lynch would be a sure thing, but the way this is dragging makes me think I'm wrong about where I am going in this game. acryon, if you were me, what would you do?

Scumclaim

Note that RC is on a L-1 wagon. This is the votecount:

Vote Count 4.4:

Hiplop: Elyse, DarkLightA, RedCoyote

(L-1)

RedCoyote: Slandaar, Hiplop

(L-2)

Not voting: Bicephalous Bob, acryon

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline in (expired on 2014-09-28 10:30:00)

...and afterwards he blames the unvote on not realizing that acryon hadn't posted yet...

Bob, you're right. I didn't realize acryon had posted when hiplop was at L-1. This effectively makes hiplop confirmed scum in my eyes.

So he is saying that he was afraid acryon would hammer. Yet his reads are:

I can't decide on my third.

hip/Elyse/Slandaar or hip/Slandaar/Bob would be my my top two. I think it's very possible DLA is the third, but he would probably be the last one I'd choose at this point. I could also see hip/Elyse/Bob, but I would need to go back and analyze Bob more.

Acryon isn't even on the list (also see how he asks for acryon's advice in 1724), and yet he is explaining his unvote based on avoiding acryon's quickhammer. Lynching taking long in LyLo typically means town are on the right wagon—RC's failure to realize this is scummy.

[DarkLightA]

tldr: I think RC and Elyse are scum.

[DarkLightA]

Woah! You're basing your actions on who is most likely to be lynched?

It is possible that Bob is scum. If I think he is, I will pursue it. I don't avoid pursuing it because there are easier lynches around. That's what scum do.

[DarkLightA]

I thought the game was over when Salamence said game over man game over.

It's RC and DLA so idc who is lynched first.

So your argument is basically "It's 100% RC and DLA because if it's not them then we can't get a lynch"

[DarkLightA]

You're saying you have no interest in considering Bob-scum because you don't think a lynch of him would go through. Correct?

[DarkLightA]

here I am

it has to be one of {slandaar, rc} with one of {dla, elyse}, or we've lost already (no way it's rc/slandaar/hip)

I don't think I'll have time to reread the first days with this info until halfway through day 5, but right now I'm thinking hip/rc/dla

Explain this. Why can't I be scum with elyse?

[DarkLightA]

Why couldn't that be bussing? And why does that mean Elyse and me can't be on a team?

[DarkLightA]

I'm not trying to discredit you—I'm simply trying to understand where you're coming from.

Am I understanding you correctly if I say that you're arguing that the RC/Slandaar and Elyse/DLA pairings are so conflicted that there's only one scum per?

[DarkLightA]

Forgot we were in LyLo yesterday.

Nevermind me.

[DarkLightA]

I'm just gonna give up on understanding Elyse for now.

Forgot we were in LyLo yesterday.

Nevermind me.

Let me rephrase before someone questions it: I do remember that we had LyLo yesterday, I just didn't come to the conclusion that Bob presented.

[DarkLightA]

RC: It's very unlikely that I'll vote for Slandaar, but I'd still like to see you make your case. Right now it seems like you're looking for an excuse to not argue the case.

[DarkLightA]

I'd especially be interested in what makes you think hiplop faked RBing Slandaar, his buddy.

[DarkLightA]

The third major reason is the three of Slandaar/DLA/Elyse framing me. The town player among you three needs to take a step back and put yourself in my shoes for a second.

Why is Bob conf-town?

[DarkLightA]

Sorry, I'm really busy at the moment. I'm starting university and I didn't realize it would be this busy.

But RC is obvscum, not even realizing the obvious that any town who is thinking at all would realize (see 1947).

VOTE: RedCoyote

[DarkLightA]

^distancing

[DarkLightA]

I'm just saying that you're the other scum.

[DarkLightA]

prodge.

Kill RC.

[DarkLightA]

so it's either {hip, rc, elyse/dla} or {hip, slandaar, dla}

I love that you just literally listed all the three options that exist with you not in them.

[DarkLightA]

Hey!

[DarkLightA]

Elyse is scum.

[DarkLightA]

VOTE: Elyse

[DarkLightA]

Woo indeed.

[DarkLightA]

Do what you want, I don't have time to build a case.

Bob, look through the interactions between me and Elyse yesterday. I felt that the attacks from Elyse's side were unexpected and unjustifiable. Read into that what you will.

If you vote for me you've lost us the game, but I haven't been active so I'll take my share of the blame for that.

[DarkLightA]

That "woo indeed" is really weird. Elyse's "woo" should feel incredibly dishonest to you, so why did you copy her terminology?

A two-thousand post game, and you base your read on that?

[DarkLightA]

Hiplop... not so sure anymore. I'll have to think about it tomorrow. The role claim makes him look bad though.

What made you doubt your hiplop read here?

If I remember correctly I liked hiplop's play for much of the game until the roleclaiming fucked him over. Though to be fair he almost managed to play it off.

Also, Bob, look at that last paragraph in Elyse's post above. It's written by scum. Scum want to appear to be thinking in games like this, obviously. The difference between scum and town is that town think before they post, while scum have a tendency to show thought within a post in an attempt to come off as more townish. A pristine example is above: she answers your question in the most townish way possible, admitting that you would be the better kill for me, but then flipflops and by the end of the same paragraph comes to the opposite conclusion.

[DarkLightA]

I'm not sure why it stopped pinging. Most of it should be documented in my posts.

[DarkLightA]

GG elyse

I'm sorry I flaked at the end. I just haven't had any time.