Mini 1596: Minimence I Game Over!!!

[acryon]

Maybe you should re-read my initial comment and his reply, because it definitely reads to me like him saying I am wrong. i.e. The comment "Take your pick", especially when I never said that wasn't a possibility, and it wasn't my point. So maybe he completely missed my point, but either way my initial point stands.

[acryon]

I mean; He responded to you but it wasn't really a response to your content. He was more saying 'I will tell you something which is mutually exclusive now choose!'. I feel like I have been doing a lot of this translation of meaning in this game.

I don't feel like you need to do that in this situation. If anything, he was dodging my real point and saying something that we already all decided was potentially part of the equation pages ago.

[acryon]

Acryon trust me on this if nothing else.

He wasn't responding to you how you have interpreted it.

This has nothing to do with interpretation. Here is what happened:

1. I post saying that DLA has been sketchy and that I essentially think that DLA could be scum in addition to hip who is probably scum.
2. DLA responds by saying that either DLA/Elyse/RC are all scum, or hip is scum.

This was already common knowledge since the moment I posted and we decided it, which was several pages ago.

So what was the point of that post from DLA, Slandaar? To remind me of something that we all already knew, which also happens to not be a response to what I said at all? Assuming DLA has at least half of a brain, this obviously isn't the case.

[acryon]

Lol. I like to think I have to more than half a brain.

Slandaar is correct in his interpretation. What I was saying wasn't a direct response, but rather a suggestion, in a way. Either hiplop is scum, or the scumteam is me, RC and Elyse. Note that the logic accepts what you're saying: if hiplop is scum, the argument doesn't say anything about the scumteam.

It applies to today's decision. If you think me, RC and Elyse are on a scumteam together, vote one of us. Otherwise, vote hiplop.

I agree that you do, which is why I didn't like Slandaar's comment. I get what you're saying, and I still plan on voting hip today as of now, but there's no reason to not work on gaining information for the following days. All I was and am saying is that your comment had an agenda, and that we shouldn't ignore that fact. Whether that agenda is a scummy one or not, well that is up to us.

[acryon]

RC, what do you think about the fact that scum hasn't come in to hammer you?

[acryon]

Hiplop claimed to target me before Acryon claimed or massclaim happened. The argument is that Hiplop targetted me and told the truth about it because otherwise he could have blocked a PR and gotten lynched for it. Similar to why he claimed TRUTHFULLY on Candice, because if he didn't Candice claims and bye bye Hiplop.

why wouldn't he block his buddy?

This seems like a detail you wouldn't normally miss Slandaar.

[acryon]

I mean, he wouldn't even have to actually block anyone

from hiplop's perspective the safest thing is to do nothing and claim he blocked a buddy

Additionally, if he is 1-shot, then this would make even more sense, and we sort of decided earlier that 1-shot would be more balanced.

[acryon]

That's quite clever.

But then if I were scum I would know it doesn't and know the flaw so eh knowing it doesn't confirm would mean scum wouldn't do it...

So, no.

That's not a very good reason.

[acryon]

That's not a very good reason.

It is because actually if you know something doesn't work then you clearly would use the RB properly.

And how would that be? Targeting someone else does the same thing. No one is confirmed, so we would still be having the same conversation. If he is 1-shot, then it's not even possible for him to target someone else.

[acryon]

Targeting someone else can block a town PR so it doesn't do the same thing...

Are you really arguing that if a claimed JK-scum RB was tracked to someone you would not consider them confirmed town?

Yes. If he is RB, how are you confirmed town?

[acryon]

Scum wouldn't RB their own team.

Why wouldn't they? If he hadn't claimed it wouldn't make sense to, but since he did it makes the most sense to RB your own team. Additionally, if he is 1-shot, then he

has

to block a scum0buddy.

[acryon]

Also if he was 1-shot he could claim that. He isn't, I know he isn't because I am town and

he can't risk claiming to RB me when I can be a PR who knows I wasn't blocked.

See?

Yes, but 1-shot JK doesn't really happen as far as I can tell. And the bolded argument doesn't work if you are scum.

[acryon]

It's times like these that I really miss IRL mafia, because it would be so much better/easier to have everyone talking.

[acryon]

OK let's stop arguing this nonsense as really you have no point to it other than to try and make me a lynch candidate which absolutely is bad for town.

Instead you tell me why no-one else said he could be 1-shot in response to me saying he had to target me? particularly Red.

You yourself said this:

Cop, Doc, Miller, JK. Ehhhhhhhhhhhh that is a lot of power.

Doc, Cop, Miller with a scum RB. Hrmmm. If the RB is limited shot this seems fine to me which can absolutely be the case.

And bob said this:

1-shot RB, maybe

Before later deciding he didn't like it.

And the reason why I am second-guessing is because the lack of a hammer on RC means that if he isn't scum, both you and Hip are scum.

[acryon]

I'm pretty sure hiplop is town.

That said, if he isn't dead tomorrow, I think he should hang. No excuses.

Do you think that is genuine? (I cut the explanation out but its meaningless here)

Do you think Red believes if Hip didn't die last night he must be lynched while simultaneously being pretty sure Hip is town?

I think it may be genuine, although the reasoning is terrible. Because if he is town, then scum would leave him alive, so of course if we didn't lynch him, he would still be alive.

Idk, I still think that either you or RC are scum, probably RC. And it's been like 16 hours since RC was placed at L-2; I'd be shocked if it didn't happen. If you think it's

possible

that RC is town, why are you leaving your vote on him where scum

could

come in and quickhammer?

[acryon]

Bob, what do you think a about RC?

[acryon]

Espresso's weird 1159 where he's presumably glad a VT was lynched

For example here.

He obviously wasn't glad a VT was lynched also note the use of presumably it is a weird use. Either you think he is or he isn't it isn't 'presumably glad'

Yeah for sure. That is pretty bad.

[acryon]

rc is likely scum, still

It's possible because he isn't confirmed scum but at the same time I don't see him being town. Some of his arguments against Espresso particularly were really bad.

why did you pretend not to see this and other things yesterday

I don't know that I pretended to not see it; I was just more concerned with talking DLA than RC at that time.

[acryon]

So I now feel confident of my previous statement that either RC has to be scum or both Hip and Slandaar are scum, the latter of which is far less likely.

[acryon]

From my perspective he's confscum. Does that help?

Town doesn't have a JK and a doctor. Trust me.

So your scum-team is Hip/Elyse/RC?

[acryon]

That is correct. But I still have to consider Bob-scum tomorrow.

I think that's the most likely scumteam though.

Can't we discuss this tomorrow? Acryon, give us any extra reads and thoughts you have, and then let's lynch hiplop.

Seems to me we have almost 4 days left. Why are you pushing so hard for a lynch? And I'm dying tonight no matter what, so why not discuss now while we have an extra townie? Especially if hip is conf-scum in your eyes, just ignore him and we can discuss as 4 Town-2 Scum. Tomorrow it will be 3 Town-2 Scum. This should be the best time to discuss.

[acryon]

They can't possibly make a mistake before tomorrow no matter what we say. I am the kill tonight no matter what. If they didn't kill me, they would be absolutely foolish, so we need to take these last few days and get as much info as we can while we have an apparent advantage.

[acryon]

Yeah, I was previously hoping that by not lynching hiplop you would be kept alive, but people seemed against that.

How do you read 1700?

1700 sucked and was wrong, but like I said you have also posted a handful of ideas that weren't actually logically sound. It is scummy to me overall, but I would think scum would be more careful about trying to confirm themselves as town, so I'm not there just yet.

[acryon]

but that you won't even acknowledge the possibility of scum hiplop lying to take advantage of the town.

I am town, Hiplop as scum would know I am town, Hiplop as scum claims to target me

Either he takes a huge risk in outing himself by lying because I can be a PR or he tells the truth. He will tell the truth.

But this is only if you are town.

[acryon]

No I'm scumreading you for unvoting someone that has to be scum for your point of view.

If anything, this is a town-tell to me. Hard to imagine scum wouldn't recognize something like that.

[acryon]

I don't know who is working harder to stop the hiplop wagon now, Slandaar or DLA. At least Slandaar is being upfront about it.

UNVOTE: hiplop

I need to think on this game. I thought the hiplop lynch would be a sure thing, but the way this is dragging makes me think I'm wrong about where I am going in this game.

acryon, if you were me, what would you do?

I didn't realize acryon had posted when hiplop was at L-1. This effectively makes hiplop confirmed scum in my eyes.

Only way Hip isn't scum is if Acryon is scum. This is a fact from Red's POV.

Red is clearly not thinking Acryon is scum so there is no revelation here. Learning Acryon had posted makes no difference to his view because the fact is Hiplop had to be scum when he thought Acryon was town.

Yeah this is a lock. No chance Red is town.

Yay me.

While this is certainly something, he isn't quite confscum to me. This could also just be town not thinking about it. DLA, Elyse, and probably even I have posted things that seemed to make sense at the time, but turned out to be illogical. That being said, I am still voting hip tonight at this point.

[acryon]

You think about these things when you are voting in lylo as town, you just do.

The point is though that if he considered you town Hiplop was practically confscum already.

Well both Elyse and DLA have made similar mistakes here in lylo, either missing confirmed roles from their eyes or confirming roles that weren't, and we can't have 4 scum.

[acryon]

DLA didn't - he was trying to devise a masterplan to keep you alive. Which might be a bit crazy but is kind of understandable, it isn't really a similar issue.

I do doubt DLA/Hip as a team also.

So, Elyse/Red/Hip? yeah sure could well be. Hip/Red/Bob ? maybe, Red/Elyse/DLA? yeah possible too but Hip's activity is too low I think.

Who are you voting?

[acryon]

I know you are voting Red right now, but would that be your final vote? You think Red is more scum than Hip?

[acryon]

acryon what are you talking about? What have I posted that is illogical?

I would always lynch scum.

Also I am now conftown as DLA would be willing to lynch me over hiplop to save acryon which would make no sense if we were scum together.

(DLA is confscum)

[acryon]

I stand by that.

Well you are alone in that.

[acryon]

Where is your mind at right now Bob?

[acryon]

I have a little over an hour until I won't be able to post again before deadline. I will place my vote at that time.

[acryon]

I guess there isn't much point in waiting for just another hour.

*Crosses fingers*

VOTE: Hip

[acryon]

Thought we had this

[acryon]

Hip did a good job of playing dumb early on when we were suspecting him, which in turn caused us to lynch some other people who were playing silly who were unfortunately town