Mini 1627: Ninja Mini Mafia

[killerjester]

In other words, the scumteam is fucked. Y'all should just give up now.

[killerjester]

Feels good to be back. Did you find the scum for me yet? I'm only on like page 2 so far and Boonskiies looks pretty bad for #30.

[killerjester]

Page 5, Allyra is so fucking town that it hurts.

[killerjester]

Oh sweet, orctown. So can I get those scumreads I asked you for?

[killerjester]

I read up until Allyra replaced. I started by jotting some stuff down in notepad stream of consciousness style but the Allyra-Thor skirmish competed much more effectively for my attention in the end. SO here's what we'll do. These are my original notes...

Boonskiies #30, prioritizing RVS over an "actual vote" that's some scummy shit
Zebulin #60 dude's fucking on point *thumbs up*
gamsimbre #63 light scumvibes
Goblin #78 light townvibes
Allyra pg5, so fucking town that it hurts
Thor665 pg6, actually engaging the game
Konowa #180 I don't think he knows what circular logic is lol

Then from like pages 8-10 or what here's what I found most interesting. The first is Konowa's repeated ignorance. Allyra asked him no less than 3 times to read over the Thor + Boonskii votes, no response. It's clear he wasn't reading everything Allyra said (asked for Allyra to cite the games she had read

after

she told him she had read Castle Zar).

So Konowa did you genuinely miss her thrice-repeated question for you to give an opinion on Thor + Boonskii? Or, if you didn't, why were you actively ignoring it?

The second is Thor's subtle shift in playstyle. Early on in the game he was absolutely merciless: picking apart, addressing, and questioning the entire substance of several posts [Varsoon's 47/48] [Various 52-118] [Allyra's 143] [Allyra's 153].

Given all that, I found myself quite hot n' bothered by his meager response in #241. It reads to me as scum that doesn't want to dignify Allyra's claim that..

What you will see from here on out is him quoting sentence by sentence my points against him and going derp derp derp, or using semantic bullshit (which he employs regardless of alignment), and trying to tear me down.

So yea, Konowa and Thor are my top scumreads atm. Given the scumteam's hardon for Allyra and her completely-fucking-town manner of opening reads, that slot is all but confirmed town for me. That's all for now, I'll read the rest and draw up a vote for you lot tomorrow.

[killerjester]

Oh. Huh. Okay.

[killerjester]

In my defense, the dead players were listed in a spoiler and I haven't seen a current VC. But yea I'll totally pay more attention.

[killerjester]

Cool, got any other reads besides Konowa?

[killerjester]

Alright you guys are a fuckin mess. How are we halfway through D2 with no clear direction? Let's get some shit done.

First things first,

Pretty sure the following got asked/answered already, Allyra (especially 'cus I was the one asking the same questions, lol)

oh.

I find this interchange funny.
Because it basically is Varsoon realizing that Allyra hasn't read anything very well - yet not bothering to ask her about it.
Is it just that he's happy to have her townread?
Or is he town who can't figure out how to pressure someone for skimming the game to try to figure out if they're scum or not?

This is about as blatant as scumcoaching gets. Burn it with fire.
VOTE: Varsoon

Acryon, what made you go from wanting to hold off on a Boonskii lynch (#440) to fully endorsing it (#486)?

Drake, give me one additional read besides Konowa. Seriously, do you even have two reads by page 40?

Konowa, now that I've read the flips I'd certainly like to find out why you were being so dodgy with Allyra about your Thor-read.

Zebulin, your Boonskii vote is dead weight. Can you help me with a Varsoon wagon?

Blue, same to you wrt Fish. Hop on the Varsoon train.

[killerjester]

I mean. I see where you're coming from. But is this really the time to be chasing after lurkscum? Be reasonable orc.

[killerjester]

Here I am, putting in effort, interacting with folks, giving you all tons of great content to garner reads out of and tackle and such
Buuut noooo
"I'm okay with a lynch on Varsoon" is pretty much today's idea.

If you want me dead, fuckin' lynch me. Don't be a bunch of cuckholded wussies.

This sounded really town. I want to believe. But then you go and say things like this.

Literally all of Killer's interactions are trying to pressure players into turbo-lynching me.

Why do you do these things Varsoon? If you want to convince me you're town why do you turn around and tell lies like that?

[killerjester]

Update-

Drake gave terrible reads. It feels like he's just manufacturing scumreads on popular lynch-candidates and not providing very much reason for them to cruise along for D2. His sheep onto my Varsoon read doesn't go unnoticed.

Konowa, reasonable response, I'm feeling better about him now than I did early on during my read-through.

Zebulin, responded very well. While I feel he could be making better use of his vote he's at least paying attention and engaging the game.

BBT, ignored/missed my question. Either way it's slightly scummy.

Varsoon comes off very townish in his manner but is entirely misrepping my actions to try to paint me as scummy. It comes off as forced and I just don't see the town motivation behind it. My vote stay on him for now.

Still waiting on acryon to come in.

I don't know how I feel about Xiao, fish, or Boonskii quite yet. Just that I don't plan to lynch any of them today.

Scumdar looks thus:

Varsoon

Drake Crusader

BlueBloodedToffee

Konowa

Zebulin

orcinus_theoriginal

killerjester

[killerjester]

Yes.

[killerjester]

I wanted to know how you felt about a Varsoon wagon.

[killerjester]

Zebulin, your Boonskii vote is dead weight. Can you help me with a Varsoon wagon?

Blue,

same to you

wrt Fish. Hop on the Varsoon train.

What did you think the bolded meant?

[killerjester]

Hm. Alright I guess I can see how you read it like that.

You're fairly transparent but you're still playing some things close to the chest. Like you said you can see Varsoon scum but haven't said why.

[killerjester]

The main thing throwing me off from a Drake wagon is this interaction here.

Yes Boon would be my second scum read. The way with words and as I wanted to clear up from earlier post the Self Vote. How is that even considered a town move in any degree?
Followed by Varsoon. He just doesn't bode well with me.

While Varsoon and Drake hold my top two respective scumreads, this interaction dissuades me from the idea of a Drake/Varsoon

team

. I think scumDrake in this position would be looking to start a viable counterwagon, and he wouldn't be interested in light bussing. Given that, I have a stronger scumread on Varsoon and the moment and would rather see him go first.

[killerjester]

I'd agree with you if he was actively pushing

anything

. As it stands it much more has the feel of someone presenting popular lynch candidates to see which one would garner the most support, with the idea that he'd sheep quietly in that direction. He's been lurking the entire game and I hardly expect that to change now.

[killerjester]

I've seen the reasons from scumDrake since the top of this page. It's simply that I have a stronger read on Varsoon and think he's the better lynch for today. Why do you think Varsoon should wait?

[killerjester]

@Killer: How am I misrepping you? I am reacting to what you literally did. :l

How?

Literally all

of Killer's interactions are trying to pressure players into turbo-lynching me.

When at the time I had spent a fraction of one post asking Blue + Zebulin to get on the Varsoon wagon. Literal or not, you're grossly exaggerating with the suggestion that "all" of my actions were to pressure players into lynching you.

Like, KillerJ's trying to give me literally no quarter, no argument, no space to answer shit.
"LOOK AT THIS INTERACTION--HE IS SCUM GIVE IT FIRE"
and then instead of asking anything, for reads, for info, for interaction, for anything at all--he's just pushing hard and

telling people their votes are worthless if not on me.

Also not true. I was telling them their votes were deadweight, sure, and suggesting a better alternative. But that's not the same as telling people, "Any vote that isn't on Varsoon is a worthless vote."

The -second- it became clear that the Drake wagon and a clearer voter response to it and that I was putting pressure on your vote on me, you swapped to voting Drake,
Drake,
who is notoriously absent to respond to pressure.

And this. What the fuck is this shit? How is this not the very definition of a misrep?

[killerjester]

Guys come on, I know I'm not the only one who sees what's going on.

[killerjester]

Except that you are misrepping me. It IS fact.

[killerjester]

Varsoon should

be the player you should be mimicking

.

[killerjester]

Call me crazy but Drake's latest posts seem kinda townish. I can sense his general frustration + apathy towards the game and it feels like he's just trying to get his opinions out so we have something to work with if he's hammered. I've been in that seat before. That's town all over.

[killerjester]

you.

You have townreads on 80% of the living players. Do not chastise me for this one.

Also I'd be interested to hear what came of your reevaluation.

[killerjester]

Huh.

Never again will I doubt orc.

[killerjester]

VOTE: xiao long

kj you are the only person i'm not interested in reevaluating. talk to me about this vote.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK ANYMORE



Varsoon's hammer was scummy as goddamn fuck and I'm very surprised BBT didn't shoot him. That being said, I'm finding it hard to reconcile the following.

I have no clue, honestly. I don't know what Varsoon means by "Caught ya" and Drake's reply to me seems really sarcastic. Was it not a hammer?

(There is no smiley that appropriately portrays confusion on this site, apparently.)

I mean. He clearly doubted Drake would flip scum. Sure, in hindsight, Drake

was

being sarcastic. But the only scenario I've ever expected claimed scum to flip town is if I already knew they were town.

VOTE: Xiao

[killerjester]

It's all there.

Black and white.

Clear as crystal.

Drake claimed scum and you defaulted to reading it as sarcasm because you knew he wouldn't flip scum.

@Boonskiies: I don't see why you're making such a big deal over an italicized word. Can you find for me any game where you've seen scum do this before?

[killerjester]

This doesn't read as incredibly sarcastic to you?

Yep I was the master scum. Thought the whole plan would pan out. If only I wasn't hammered. eh It happens to the best of us I guess.

"the master scum" "eh" etc.

Hindsight's 20/20. I tend to take scumclaims at face-value. Don't you?

[killerjester]

Why is Varsoon probably town?

Like seriously. What the fuck am I missing?

[killerjester]

He played as scum in the game I was modding before I site-flaked (and the game was abandoned). I wasn't really paying attention to him, or anyone, or anything at the time.

[killerjester]

Holy shit.

You're introducing a premise (the clause "when Xiao flips town" implies Xiao will flip town) and asking "Do we lose the game? y/n?"

Then suggesting Orc scumslipped by answering from the perspective of a premise

you fucking brought up

.

Like, is that an actual thought you had?

[killerjester]

@Varsoon: That makes more sense, I think I read your first post wrong. I need to take a nap or something.

[killerjester]

Zebulin isn't the only one asking you to explain yourself, Boonskiies. Why are you ignoring acryon?

[killerjester]

It's mostly WIFOM.

Thank you.

Orc's making too big a deal out of WIFOM and it's really hurting the Xiao wagon.

KJ, what are your thoughts on Formerfish?

He's being a bit stubborn with you particularly, but that hardly makes him scum. To be quite honest his actions are pretty transparent if you'd take a minute to listen to what he's saying instead of demanding that it be spelled out for you in case-form. Maybe he doesn't like cases.

Move the fuck on and find actual scum.

You claim to be scumhunting but the tone of the your posts just doesn't match up. No matter what you say you tend to bring it back full-circle into how Formerfish and Boonskiies are being stubborn.

My reason for voting Formerfish and Boonskiies is that they are voting someone (me) without posting a legitamite reason for it, and saying that he does hve a good reason but won't post it because I'm "not scumhunting". I am scumhunting, and I'm trying to find out if Formerfish and Boonskiies are scum or not in response to my questions. I have scumhunted before in the past, mostly on Thor D1 and Varsoon and Formerfish D2.

Formerfish: IF you're actually town, you should post your case so that the other players can hear it and agree with it. You can't lynch someone with just 2 players on the wagon.

NOTE: Tomorrow I won't be able to answer questions, and that will continue for a week. That's why I wanted Formerfish and Boonskiies to post their case now. If they actually do post a case don't vote me until I get a chance to answer it, please.

You've hardly mentioned Xiao Long today.

You have him down as Null.

He's the largest wagon at the moment.

Have you even tried to get a read on him or were you too busy defending yourself?

[killerjester]

Scum would have seen an opportunity to cast suspicions on two people and not really care which way it went. And I do believe that scum would sit back and let the situation unfold organically.

This is a valid point and why I think orc's NK analysis is hurting our wagon. It feels like scum have been playing from a comfortable position ever since the early lynch on Thor, and certainly going forward from Drake's death. If Xiao is town I don't follow orc's premise that scum would claim the BBT kill implicates Xiao/Formerfish, because it would draw as much attention to the accuser as it does the accused - like it's doing right now between orc + Xiao.

And there are better reasons to vote Xiao anyway.

[killerjester]

Okay so are we lynching Xiao today or what

[killerjester]

Is that why you killed Orc?

VOTE: Varsoon

[killerjester]

Later tonight, Varsoon will present indisputable evidence that I'm a Jester too! I'll let you imagine what that might look like.

[killerjester]

I'm against it unless it would help us confirm other townies. I mean a PR will get the chance to claim anyway before a hammer (except in "rare" circumstances) so there's no reason to give out unprovoked information if it won't help us that much.

[killerjester]

Damn guys I know I was a little inactive over the holidays but I think you're trying to pull more out of it than it's worth. Even so, I hope you all take a serious look at Varsoon after I'm gone. I refuse to believe the Drake wagon was entirely town-driven, and Varsoon's hammer still pings me as terrible. Boonskiies' play has been entirely unimpressive but I'm willing to believe in whatever trust tell orc saw. Zebulin was overdefensive yesterday but I feel his game has improved since.

Varsoon > Zebulin > Boonskiies, although the latter two are much less preferred.

[killerjester]

Varsoon > Zebulin > Boonskiies, although the latter two are much less preferred.

In addition, acryon and Formerfish are town.

[killerjester]

How can you read 904 and think he's the best lynch today.

[killerjester]

There's a big difference between saying "I would/wouldn't do X as scum" and self-voting followed by the statement "I've never self-voted as scum before."

[killerjester]

Like it's a shitty way to play the game but he's probably town.

[killerjester]

If he did it as scum it would break his townmeta of self-voting.

[killerjester]

I was trying to be subtle about it but whatever

[killerjester]

I'm more confident in scum between Varsoon and Zebulin so would like to use our 2 lynches for them if possible.

[killerjester]

Oh, so you're not going to kill me tonight?

That'll be the biggest mistake of your goddamn life.

[killerjester]

Who's doing what now?

Vote him, Varsoon. If somehow you are scum, good game, you're going to win, because I'll vote for Killer tomorrow.

VOTE: Zebulin

[killerjester]

VOTE: Zebulin

WHY VARSOON WHY???????????????

I mean, why are you voting someone (me [line]or boonskiies[/line] (thought you voted boonskiies at some point)) when you're saying someone else is the scum?

Boonskiies: Why am I scum?

He did it because he knew he'd win LyLo. Boonskiies literally told him he would win if he killed acryon or Formerfish.

[killerjester]

-circular logic-

Maybe if you're lucky the rest of town will overlook your eagerness to jump on Zebulin.

[killerjester]

If you are not sure on Zebulin why were you willing to abandon my lynch today? And I'd like to get your Formerfish read on record too.

[killerjester]

Sorry if I was unclear, my question was directed at you [Varsoon] as well.

[killerjester]

Okay wow apparently I missed some fun. I've been out all afternoon and I'm very tired now so I only skimmed the thread so I'll keep this brief until I have more time to read.

VT, Formerfish next.

[killerjester]

HOLD. THE. FUCKING. PHONE.



If we lose the current game tempo there's nothing to stop scum from shooting acryon.

So we should lynch today.

And by "today" I mean "Varsoon".

[killerjester]

Killerjester, acryon just claimed bulletproof so he won't die overnight.

Exactly. We'd go into D5 with the same people and no BP (ie: strictly worse than lynching today). If we NL twice to get the LyLo-tempo then acryon dies.

If we keep the current MyLo-tempo then acryon is effectively NK-immune unless scum wants to give us an extra lynch.

I'm suggesting a MyLo with acryon is better than a LyLo without him.

[killerjester]

Alright I'm on board.

The whole massclaiming business made me feel better about Zebulin.

And after rereading a bit I'm consistently finding myself hung up on this part.

Varsoon/killer/Myself/Former. Lynch Zebulin with me, PLEASE. I'd much prefer it to Killer.

VOTE: Zebulin

Killer, prove you are town to me. You say you want Varsoon or Zebulin, I'll meet you in the middle.
Former, your biggest scum reads are Killer and Zebulin, there is no reason not to vote Zebulin.
Varsoon...I just trust you for some reason, man.

Vote him, Varsoon. If somehow you are scum, good game, you're going to win, because I'll vote for Killer tomorrow.

VOTE: Zebulin

Dude was trying way too hard to fabricate a Zebulin wagon. "Prove you are town" by voting Zebulin, "there is no reason not to vote Zebulin", "vote him and I'll sheep you tomorrow" (shortly followed by Varsoon's jump) all demand appeasements without actually discussing reasons why Zebulin is scummy. The whole Varsoon/Boonskiies interaction bothers me a lot, and I'll concede that if Varsoon isn't scum Boonskiies almost certainly is.

VOTE: Boonskiies

Let me know if I just won the game, I'm not one for suspense.

[killerjester]

Zeb's scum because my role PM is town

VOTE: Zeb

I got nothing else for ya, I could look back and read the game but everything I find would likely come off as confirmation biased now that I know Zeb is scum. Honestly he's played pretty well and I never had more than weak suspicions.

[killerjester]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=19039
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=24478

I don't have many groupscum games I think these are the only 2 discounting marathons.

[killerjester]

It feels pretty forced. Literally no one is even considering a Formerfish lynch so I don't see how we're "better off" from knowing he didn't hammer when presented with the opportunity. Realistically the lynch was between Zebulin and myself, and I feel the selfvote was to emphasize that fact.

Also Zebulin wasn't bothered by the possibility of Formerfish-scum ending the game because he already knows Formerfish is town.

[killerjester]

Good game everyone