MINI 1688 — BEES!!! — game over
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KayP Goon
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In post 23, Green Crayons wrote:In post 17, KayP wrote:5 votes? That's quite the wagon for such an early, random stage.
Whatcha wanna do about it?
I want to comment on how odd I find it for there to be 5/7 votes on someone before the end of the first page with no information out there!
In post 28, Bellaphant wrote:okaaaay...so, what? Does the push look scummy? Why? Is it just RVS? Give us an opinion, not a statement.
I was more fishing to see if this is standard for this website. I know everyone plays differently and has different expectations, but the 2-3 games I read didn't have this happen. and nobody else had commented on it.
In post 32, Fro99er wrote:I'm liking where my vote is at. Ducky is going to have to do something towny for me, other than post useless stuff.
Bella and Bob (fuck me there's two Bob's in this game ... Bicephalous Bob) have been quite towny so far. Especially Bella for the proper questioning of KayP and the recognition of Glork's naked vote.
Hmm, I'm not entirely sure that's how this should work. Should the burden of proof not be on yourself to show why duck is town, not on duck to prove she's not mafia?Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 43, Fro99er wrote:This is directed at Bella, but I've made a comment about ducky too. For me, yes it's lack of engagement, combined with ducky's meta (for example: this game or this game) where they are town and have early posts that at least resemble productive content (although still fun and lighthearted). Unfortunately there are no completed scum games in their wiki, so I cannot find if this lack of productive posting is a scumpattern of theirs or not. Yes, this is an early read, without a ton to go by other than lack of content and some meta to back it up (no, meta isn't the sole reason), and is a read of mine that could possibly change based off how the game progresses. But for now, I like where my vote stands until they can start to post something useful. This is good pressure.
Hmm. So, basically, you've seen ducky play differently in the past as a townsperson, and this makes you think the different play here is somehow noteworthy or alignment-related? I still feel like there's very little to go on right now and judging someone's posts this early based on content level is a big jump to make. It's especially concerning because you yourself only madeone postjust saying hello to various people and voting randomly, and your second post was demanding better stuff from ducky. That's a bit hypocritical.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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Oh, sure, the goal is to find mafia. I agree there, that much is obvious. But given statistics, the person you are pushing/voting/arguing with is MORE LIKELY to be town than mafia since there are way more town than mafia in games. I guess I'm having trouble understanding why you seem to be STARTING from a mindset of "this person is mafia, prove me otherwise" instead of "this person is statistically likely to be town, unless proven otherwise".Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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So if the meta is just supporting evidence, then it must be the lack of engagement as the primary thrust of your vote on them, yes?
Can you explain a bit more what about ducky's posts make you think "lack of engagement"? I think I get what you mean, but that phrase is sort of just vague.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 50, Fro99er wrote:In post 45, KayP wrote:your second post was demanding better stuff from ducky. That's a bit hypocritical.
My second post had content in it. It explained WHY I was voting ducky, and it explained WHY I thought Bella and BBob (especially bella) were making good points/posts.
Yes, it did... err, let me back up, I feel like maybe I'm not being totally clear with you. Here's how I see it, and why there's an issue:
- You said hello to Bella, Glork, and UT, then voted ducks randomly.
- Ducks pops back in and jokes around a bit with some weird/out there posts referencing her having five votes already.
- You come back, stating you like your vote [which you later imply is because of meta + lack of engagement].
By the time you've confirmed your vote as real and not joking, you have meta reasons to dislike ducky's posts (three page one posts really early in the game) and cite her "lack of engagement". If someone had made the same accusations about you at the time you posted, it could've held true too -- you only had one non-serious post that people could claim was devoid of content, and with only one post that early (joking post) you also could be said to have a "lack of engagement".
My point in this is that your reasoning behind considering the vote "serious" seems flimsy when it could be applied to you, me, and probably the vast majority of the playerlist.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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Regarding your breakdown of duck's posts:
The first one was a jokey/random vote with a jokey/random post. Similar to exactly your first post.
The second one, where duck comments on having 5 votes... what exactly would you expect someone to say here this early in the game about them having five votes? How should a townsperson react in this situation? How should a mafioso react?
I don't mind the video post, it just seemed kind of fun/random. The "false as hell" post was specifically directed towards TellTaleHeart asking for a triple vote from the moderator, and I thought that was fairly obvious?
I see ducky as at least wading in and getting her hands dirty and staying cool under having five votes. I see that ducky had at least made some attempt at saying things on the first page, whereas I could probably pick out five people who did nothing even remotely similar. I think "lack of engagement" could much more aptly describe plenty of players in the game over ducky, at least at the point where you made your second post.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 54, Green Crayons wrote:In post 41, KayP wrote:I was more fishing to see if this is standard for this website. I know everyone plays differently and has different expectations, but the 2-3 games I read didn't have this happen. and nobody else had commented on it.
It's not normal, but this isn't a normal game.
IT'S A LIGHTNING ROUND GAME.
Okay, but... well first off, I don't know why you're yelling at me. And second off, it's "lightning round", but we still have a week, right? I don't think "one week to get day over with" justifies "someone being at five votes a few hours after the game begins".Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 72, Bellaphant wrote:@Kay, it was really vague. You seemed to saying you were commenting on the l-2 just to comment, which isn't really moving anything forward. Also, the burden of proof thing seemed backwards, so there wasn't a lot of drive behind your post.
Err... I wasn't commenting just to comment. That's not what I said at all. I said that, as a newbie, it struck me as odd that the wagon was so fast when other games I read didn't have such a fast wagon.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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Why do you think he is scum?Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 81, Bellaphant wrote:You said you saw something you haven't explained (it might be his meta push?) then mentioned re-voting, and Kay immediately follows you on to Frog. I didn't like her vote jump in response to your prod. What did you think about it?
The thrust that caused me to vote Fro99er was his Post #59, where he mentioned that we were devolving into stupid bickering. I thought about it, and that's probably true, and at the end of this series of arguments, his answers hadn't assuaged my concerns and had only made my concerns more valid, so I voted him.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 86, Bellaphant wrote:@kay, thanks. Sorry for the incorrect pronouns
No worries.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 95, Glork wrote:I like how everyone wants to impose their opinion of RVS/game philosophy on everyone else.
I haven't read any of frogger's forum games but from what I've played with him in f2f, using meta to sort out his early D1 thoughts is pretty standard fare for him.
What's atrocious is KayP's explanation of her vote (hypocrisy on Page 3 of a game? Please, it'd be scummier if he actually tried to call out three or for people at once for lack of content that early), followed by asking BobLob to justify his vote, followed by the subsequent "I agree with most of that" to reinforce the bullshit that is this wagon.
I think KayP smells a weak link and is seeking to exploit it.
Well, you can say "really? Hypocrisy on page three?" if you want, but the truth is that he DID accuse ducks of something he himself was guilty of as well. That is hypocrisy.
Bob's vote made me uncomfortable and his explanation of just saying "I think he's scummy" was bad as well.
I don't know how to smell out a weak link in this scenario. Frog is basically the only person who has been around to chat, so I'm engaging him.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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Glork: You chastise me for going after frog, here. What about Bob & GC? You said me stating I agree w/ most of his post is bullshit, but what aboutthe person who made the post? And what of GC, who also voted Frogger for similar reasons to mine?Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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Hmm. If you say so. I'd still argue that me voting Frog for hypocrisy is a lot stronger than Frog voting ducks for "lack of engagement" and meta reasons after one page of the game.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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How did GC show real conviction?
My argument against Frog amounted to the same thing that GC's vote amounted to... that is, we both thought his insistence on ducks being scum for lack of engagement/meta on page two was overblown and contrived. We both had thesamereasoning -- how are you discerning that GC is convicted, whereas I am not? Why are GC's reasons so much better than mine?
It should also be noted I didn't fully agree withallof Bob's points, but agreed with enough of them that I didn't want to argue against someone who was supporting my wagon of choice right now.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 111, Shadoxx8 wrote:I think that Ducky just has a playstyle like this on his/her's first day. Alot of players in games I've been in are like this (For example, goodmorning). Then again, she was scum in her game soooo...
What is this?
VOTE: Shadoxx8
Frog's frustration feels mostly real, and Shadoxx's post here seems to be a light defense of ducky... only to turn around and leave a loophole where Shadoxx could go back on the defense and join the wagon if needed. It feels noncommittal.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 124, Green Crayons wrote:The deflection onto GC/Bob is the biggest thing.
Her position on Bob in Post 97 doesn't appear to naturally arise from her prior interaction with Bob, and thus looks like an attempt to untruthfully undermine Glork's criticism on that point.
Well, to be fair, itwasan attempt to undermine Glork's criticism on that point, because I think the criticism is flawed.
I don't particularly think the points that Bob & I (and even you, GC) brought against Frog are as weak as Glork said they were, and I find it hard to swallow his targeting of me over anyone else. It looked a bit suspicious to me that someone would come in and target me, specifically. The only difference I could find between myself and you/Bob is that I was more vocal and more aggressive, which makes Glork's singling out of me even MORE suspicious! Iamflattered, though.
In any case, I do believe Shaddox is a much bigger problem at this juncture. Take a look at his two posts so far:
In post 13, Shadoxx8 wrote:VOTE: LaLaLaDucks
Because when anything is that cute, it's bound to be evil.
In post 111, Shadoxx8 wrote:I think that Ducky just has a playstyle like this on his/her's first day. Alot of players in games I've been in are like this (For example, goodmorning). Then again, she was scum in her game soooo...
He votes ducks "randomly" and jokingly (when there were already three votes on that wagon), and after several pages of the game happening, pops back in to defend ducks... but just a little bit. He defends ducks just enough to be able to look good if ducks gets lynched and flips town, but also leaves himself a loophole to get out of it ("she was scum her game soooo..."). He also does not change his vote.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 129, Bellaphant wrote:Work sucks, but 'dont worry, bee happy!'
*slams head on table repeatedly*Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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Ooooooh. Please elaborate.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 191, TellTaleHeart wrote:In post 186, lalaladucks wrote:In post 170, TellTaleHeart wrote:You know, the more wine I drink, the more I really want to take a defibrillator to the ducks wagon.
You are being so awkward.
It's little, throwaway things like Post 117 that bug me. I make a raspberry after reading those kinds of posts. The Bella town read was really half-assed and you just kind of piggy-backed on KayP's Shadox case.
I haven't seen anything that looks legit from you and I was kind of expecting to see it by now.
As a note, I'm not sure what else people could say about the Shadoxx thing at this point. I made as many comments as one can make about Shadoxx's two posts so far, so I feel like "piggy-backing" on what I've said is about all anyone can do right now.
I see your vote, and I'm assuming it's due to the most recent ducks post before this one, but can you point out what about that post you found vote-worthy?Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 213, Fro99er wrote:My point was, if people don't push on Shadoxx (or Kitty), we're just going to let them sit there and do fuck all in a quick game. It's one thing to go V/LA or just completely flake. It's another thing to be active elsewhere yet not post in this thread.
Oh, we are allowed to mention this? I thought we couldn't mention this because of ongoing games rules... if that's the case, then I noticed ducks avoiding this thread specifically while posting heavily in other games. It was specifically around the 4-5 page mark of this thread, while ducks was a very heavy center of discussion between myself, Frogger, and Glork. In fact, she was posting elsewhere, and didn't come back until after Fro99er backed down and then Glork attacked me. It looks very suspicious that ducks was observably active on the forum but avoided this thread until the heat on her had died down.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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Apologies for my absence. I’ve been in a pretty big deadline push for this project at work and I’ve been staring at a laptop screen, eating, or sleeping for the past couple days. I finally sat down for my lunch break and scarfed down a salad, so I can get to this game a bit now.
In post 294, Shadoxx8 wrote:@KayPIn post 47, KayP wrote:Oh, sure, the goal is to find mafia. I agree there, that much is obvious. But given statistics, the person you are pushing/voting/arguing with is MORE LIKELY to be town than mafia since there are way more town than mafia in games. I guess I'm having trouble understanding why you seem to be STARTING from a mindset of "this person is mafia, prove me otherwise" instead of "this person is statistically likely to be town, unless proven otherwise".
Your point here is what? Maybe I’m missing the context of this post (viewing these in ISO BTW) but what you are essentially saying is that we shouldn’t vote for people because they are likely to be town? The point of the game is to vote and find the Mafia, before they lynch all town members. This statement directly contradicts the purpose of Mafia! You are pushing for us to vote random people, which is directly in the Mafia’s favour!
Why yes, you are missing the context of this post, and the fact that you don’t even care enough to attempt to view it in context and instead want to ramble just to paint me scummy is pretty damning. Nothing you said about this post is true, relevant, or meaningful, so you’ve essentially wasted time for the hell of it rather than taking two seconds to understand what you’re saying. This post was made in response to Frog asking someone to prove their innocence, rather than proving their guilt. This post was all about how people are more likely to be town than mafia, and therefore the onus is on the accuser to show why someone is guilty, not on the accused to show why they’re not. You’d know this, if you put some thought into it and weren’t making this case against me for show.
In post 134, KayP wrote:What is wrong with people on this site and making reasonless votes?
There is something called RVS.
Again, if you gave this half a thought, you’d know I was not TALKING about RVS. You’re not even paying attention to how late in the game I posted things. I was referencing Bellaphant voting me for no stated reasons on page six of a game when we were seemingly well past the RVS phase, and you’d know this if you actually were trying to read me instead of just drudging shit up to fit into your case against me.
I think that KayP is currently the most scummy player. However, I do not think he is Mafia. He’s the best vote for us IMO, but with Ducks at L-1. I’m unsure whether I’ll swap over on D1.
What? So you think my actions are scummy, but I am not mafia? Why do you not think I am mafia? If all the actions are leading towards me being mafia, what is making you say I am not?
To me, this reads like Shaddoxx having inside information on my role and alignment, and therefore points out some “scummy” things about me while leaving the door open to absolve himself when I get mislynched and turn out to be town! I have no clue how else someone reaches this conclusion. If Shaddox truly believed his own points against me, there’s no way he’d be saying “KayP is scummy, but not mafia, but I’m going to vote for someone I think is not mafia anyway”.
In post 324, TellTaleHeart wrote:No, this is not good. This is a strained angle. The case on Shadoxx is fundamentally weak by itself ("Give me until Day 2 to get reads" is not bad at all, not from a newbie), but then peddling this Bella-Shadoxx theory is just an extra layer of BLECH.
Hmm… if you think Glork is trying to sell us on a Bella-Shadoxx scumteam, do you think he’s putting one of his teammates in the pairing? I think that’s what I would do as mafia… I’d put a townie with my mafia buddy so that if my mafia buddy went down, I’d look good for pushing on them, and then I’d have a free setup to push a townie afterwards. I don’t know if this is a common tactic, as I couldn’t find much on the wiki regarding typical scum play.
In post 328, Fro99er wrote:UNVOTE:
like most of shadox post and the part I dont like is nitpicky
will write more tomorrow evening when done w workstuff phone posting
What, exactly, did you like about Shaddox’s post? To me it all looked empty, vapid, and meant to *look* town but not actually be town.
I’m not going to quote the whole thing here, but I sincerely liked Glork’s post #334. It felt genuine to me. I read through his points about Bob, and it definitely seems like Bob is making assumptions/putting words in Glork’s mouth, and that his read on Glork is fabricated and not really based in reality.
I have no idea what to make of Untrod Tripod. Half of his posts are jokes or images, and the other half of his posts are one-liners with very little in the way of content or meaningful analysis, yet everyone seems content to have him just floating around… Mr. Tripod, what, pray tell, did you agree with about Glork’s post that made you vote Bob? Do you no longer think that ducks is mafia?
This is about all I have time for right now, but I definitely still want Shaddox dead. Glork’s case on BiBob is fine and I wouldn’t mind BiBob dying, but my primary concern right now lies with Shaddox’s terrible performance and awful content so far, and I’m quite interested to see Shaddox explain away the questions and points I have outlined above.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 343, Bellaphant wrote:@KayP, because Glork's main push on me seems to be 'undefined scummy thing' and then 'associatives'. Good to know, though.
I don't recall ever agreeing with Glork's case on you, unless I'm misinterpreting something?
I find you slightly scummy for my own personal reasons, but the only time I mentioned you in relation to Glork was in questioning TTH on whether she thought Glork, as scum, would put a scumbuddy on the table in the Shaddox/Bella pairing.
In post 42, KayP wrote:Kitty Galore: Why did you ignore Fro99er's dislike of duck's posts, but focus on Bella?
This never got answered.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 339, KayP wrote:I have no idea what to make of Untrod Tripod. Half of his posts are jokes or images, and the other half of his posts are one-liners with very little in the way of content or meaningful analysis, yet everyone seems content to have him just floating around… Mr. Tripod, what, pray tell, did you agree with about Glork’s post that made you vote Bob? Do you no longer think that ducks is mafia?
Sorry, I realized I buried this fairly deep in my wallpost, but I'd appreciate it ifUntrod Tripod would respond to this.
It's disheartening that he obviously skipped my post entirely.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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Note that I would also be okay with a lynch on Kitty Galore. While I still dislike Shaddox's post history so far, Kitty's is almost just as terrible and I don't like how inactive she has been... it's very easy to hide behind inactivity in this game.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 356, Fro99er wrote:Anyway, I don't know where I stand on KayP. She questioned me well on my Ducky vote, even up to the point of disproving my assumption of Ducky's lack of content. That felt towny KayP. But I can't help but agree with Shadoxx that the mindset of "assume everyone is town" instead of "try to find scum" is weird and backward. That's a mafia mindset, IMO. I still need to sort KayP.
Ugh. Wtf is this. Perhaps you should stick to statistics and leave logic to the rest of us?
In no way, shape, or form is "assume everyone is town" mutually exclusive to "try to find scum". Both of those can coexist together! You see, that's not why I said you should assume everyone is town.
I was saying that asking someone to prove their innocence is placing the burden of proof on the incorrect party. It's more likely the person you're attacking is town than scum... and therefore, you should have reasons why they are scum. You, Froggy, were saying that ducks should have to have her innocence proven, rather than you proving why she is mafia. THAT is why I brought up the "everyone is more likely to be town" bit, and in no way, shape, or form did I imply that you should not attempt to find scum.
This is totally disingenuous.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 364, Kitty Galore wrote:in answer to your question, I didn't comment on Fro99er's dislike of ducks posts because I read the last page or so and wanted to ask questions and contribute while on a short break at work phone posting.
But Frog's dislike of ducks posts were on the page before you posted? What?Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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Urgh. I still don't like how quickly the ducks wagon dissipated. Nobody is even claiming a townread on her for anything, it just sort of... stopped. What in the world?Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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KayP Goon
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In post 396, lalaladucks wrote:In post 379, KayP wrote:Urgh. I still don't like how quickly the ducks wagon dissipated. Nobody is even claiming a townread on her for anything, it just sort of... stopped. What in the world?
Although, I don't really know either how I didn't get lynched. I think you're a green bean town Pusheen and liked your 339(I think?) so do you have anything you want me to explain or clear up in particular?
Spoiler: in case anyone doesn't know Pusheen
*shrug* I dunno. You're in a really murky grey area for me right now. I started the day thinking you were town and arguing against Frogger for that very reason. I still think Shaddox defending you is probably a mafia move to look good for later when you flipped town. I do think your specific avoidance of the thread as I noted in 233 loses you a lot of the town read I had built up. Frogger/Shaddox's bad pushes on you were the main reason I thought you were a townie scapegoat earlier... but the only thingyouhave done that gave me a reason to read you based onyouractions is that you avoided the thread when the heat was on.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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KayP Goon
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KayP Goon
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KayP Goon
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KayP Goon
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In post 428, Bellaphant wrote:Hey Kay: tell me why you've voted Shaddox, and I'll see if it matches up with the reason I wanna vote there?
I did it because nothing I said from yesterday has changed.
When else did Bella try to follow the crowd?
In post 430, Bellaphant wrote:VOTE: ShaddoxFine, then. I hate the way the wagon dissipated, obvscum counter wagon is obvious.
Hmm. I didn't even notice the wagon falling apart, but that's another point in favor of this lynch that I personally feel should have happened yesterday.
In post 431, Glork wrote:Bella, this is the second time you have immediately responded to a vote/criticism of your play by placing your vote to alleviate pressure on you. And both times you piled onto a player with existing suspicion. The last was when I voted you for your useless one-liner post and you responded by voting KayP.
Do you have any conviction in your votes/gameplay, or is your main priority trying to get people to not-suspect-you? Because I'm getting a huge chunk of the latter, and very little indication that you actually care about finding scum.
I'll echo the above: when was the other time?Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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KayP Goon
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In post 447, Green Crayons wrote:The argument that asking for a claim in that situation was helping direct the scum NK is also a little warped, because, like... BiBob was going to be lynched anyways? So asking for a claim was, in a sense, actually (potentially) tying the scum's NK hands because they wouldn't have gotten the BiBob mislynch, and so scum was going to have to NK BiBob if they actually wanted to get rid of him.
This was sort of my thought process at the end of the day.
I know I was cutting it close by waiting for a claim, but I figured there were three options:
1) BiBob shows up and claims VT or some similarly lynchable role, and I hammer.
2) BiBob doesn't show up at all, and I hammer.
3) BiBob shows up and claims a really important power role, I don't hammer, and then mafia have to waste their kill on BiBob to get rid of the power role.
I didn't see the harm in waiting for a claim and I certainly don't see how it's scummy... I think the only way this would've been scummy is if I hadn't hammered and had instead disappeared, asking for a missed lynch.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 451, Glork wrote:Yeah, have fun if D4 is you, Bulge, Shadoxx, Kitty, and Laladucks. I sincerely hope I get shot before then.
Also, what do you expect me to do about my proposed scums? I'm already waiting two answers from Shadoxx, who hasn't posted in over three days. I just addressed Bella within the last 24 hours. I legitimately don't understand where your "OMG DISTRACTIONS" is coming from unless you want me to keep vomiting the same questions to Shadoxx over and over again until he finally posts.
What makes you think I won't make it to Day 4?Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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*covers mouth and throws voice to sound like it's coming from somewhere else*
"That KayP is the best darn newbie to sign up for the site in years! Give her all the awards!"Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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In post 520, Tammy wrote:KayP's angle on frogger sucked and the continued questioning of it sucked.
This explanation of why you disliked it sucks and still sucks!
(In case you can't tell: it's super sucky of you to say that my "angle sucked" without giving any context. Try sucking less and giving me some reasoning!)
I didn't think Glork was ever super committed to his scumread of me so I didn't think much of it when he backed off... plus, he's backing my read on Shaddox, which I still feel totally righteous about! You mentioned I wasn't pushing elsewhere, that's probably because Iengaging Shaddox and explaining my read and reasoning further, and virtually every person in the game ignored it.tried
I'm not going to sit here and beg for attention from anyone, though it's odd how you can brush aside all of my work this game so far with two strokes of the brush: "KayP's angle & questioning sucked" and "KayP hasn't prodded anywhere else". One of those is a highly subjective statement which you backed with zero facts or reasoning, and the other is pretty objectively false.Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
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Tammy posted a lot of words! And some of them were words that made sense and felt okay, and then some of them were words that felt purely driven by her desire to get Glork lynched... and that desire feels motivated for purely defensive reasons. I'm reading through it now, and basically everything Tammy said seemed to come from a place of "Glork attacked me and therefore he is scum".
I'm trying to put my finger on the specifics of what feels 'off' about it but I'm finding it difficult. Just sort of writing all stream-of-consciousness style here then I'll clean it up into something more structured later... Glork's push on me never felt really serious, as I mentioned above. His suspicion of me was also pretty early in the game, like page 5? It's weird that Tammy seemingly doesn't like early game serious reads (as evidenced by Tammy's point about my early questioning of Frogger) but is willing to jump all over Glork having a fluid read that early. I just went back and looked and remembered that Glork voted for me early because he felt like I was jumping on a weak link (Frogger)... we had some dialogue about it in which we both explained ourselves... then he hopped on to other things. That felt pretty natural to me. In general, Glork's play feels like a movie reel where we're only getting the core/juicy parts of the scene and not the boring lead-in/exposition. It's like snapshots of a full read, which is weird. He doesn't explain every detail but I feel like I can usually deduce why he arrived where he did even if it requires some sleuthing? It's annoying, maybe, but it hasn't stood out as disingenuous to me. My early argument with him rubbed me the wrong way but not in a particularly mafia-like way.
I don't think voting for Bella after 130 is bad. I got frustrated with that post too, and while I didn't vote Bella for it, I'm also way more curmudgeon-y with my votes than the rest of the people here. I generally only vote when I'm sure enough that I'd be okay with a lynch. I've noticed several people in this game flinging votes around at people as sort of "warning shots" or something. Tammy is really trying to paint a picture here where Glork is voting for Bella because of a "joke post" (don't worry, bee happy) but that isn't the case at all. Just like Tammy wants us to see that there's some clear subtext to Bella's projected path towards laying down a vote on me, there'sactualclearly defined evidence for why people were frustrated with Bella at that point, and if you're viewing the votes this game as firestarters rather than proclamations of sure lynches, anyone with half a brain can see why Glork decided to vote Bella at this point! Bella had been useless, useless, useless, useless... then popped in to be even MORE useless than normal, and with the heat between myself and Glork dying down, he decided to put his vote elsewhere to appear more useful. At least, that's what I saw in this whole exchange, and Glork can speak for himself, but there's just something still nibbling away at me about Tammy's post that rubs me the wrong way.
Tammy also seemed to address her whole post towards the rest of the game and not towards Glork. It didn't seem like she wanted Glork to actually respond so she could suss out his alignment... again, this comes back to the whole "motivated purely by defensiveness" thing I mentioned earlier. Her post specifically asks the rest of the game to engage her on these points. "Does this make sense to anyone?" in relation to Glork's attack on Bella for the "joke post". "If he was still scum reading KayP..." is referencing Glork in the third person, instead addressing the rest of the game. I also find it weird that Tammy is busting Glork's chops over the "attacking the joke post!" episode, but when Glork is jokey by saying he'll come back to "bust some scums", Tammy drives that home as "bullshit" "bravado" and claims that as yet another reason Glork is mafia.
To be honest, I have no idea what to think about Glork, and he had been mostly under the radar for me because I liked that he was mostly agreeing with my reads. But I see NO WAY that Tammy's overly defensive, self-contradicting reasons on Glork are coming from town... and the style in which she went about it makes no sense if Glork is her mafia partner (he had no momentum on him at all).
VOTE: Tammy
And now that I've overshot my lunch break by 15 minutes... Gotta run!Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.
~Ayn Rand~
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