Mini 1653: A Game of Pokes - game over
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massive Mafia Scum
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So ... can I still random vote?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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It would be a fascinating study to run, you know -- create ten new accounts, have them claim vanilla townie in their first three posts regardless of role, and see how long they survive based solely on the newbie goodwill."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 110, kelbris wrote:After reading back through thoes relevant posts, I started thinking that he was trying to see exactly HOW other players would react to such a post, whilst mine came off as newbie explaining everything, a quick look at Slandaar's profile revealed that he has been around for 3 years more then me, reaffirming my opinion that his post was to gauge other player's reactions.
Yours did NOT come off as a "newbie explaining everything," and the more often you say it, the more often I think it isn't true.
In post 112, havingfitz wrote:massive...are you not doing anything on purpose? Still thinking things over?
I'm a late bloomer.
In post 114, FA_Q2 wrote:I think a better 'experiment' would be to try and post actual relevant information and more than 2 posts by page 5.
This post reads like filler to not trip the prod counter and look like you are participating while actually avoiding it.
Fascinating. At this point in the game, you have nine posts. (Ten comes after this one.) How many of them do you think are actual scumhunting (I count zero, mostly talking about RVS and then about the quickclaim) and how many do you think are filler trying to LOOK busy but not actually BEING busy?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 130, kelbris wrote:@Massive when I said that I "came off as explaining everything" I was referring to how some of the other players in the game (such as Cheetory6's post #20 on the first page as well as vikingfan's post #118 on page 5) were either writing me off as extreme newbtown or saying that to them I feel like a new player explaining everything I do.
Oh I'm not disagreeing that some people have read you that way. I'm saying I'm not and nobody should be.
randomidget: Any comment on Cheeto or havingfitz? You seem to be central to their isolated discussion."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 145, Saul Goode wrote:
massive - My first note on you is post 108. And really I'm just wondering why you decided to make that non game related observation that shows you are paying attention to the game but clearly are not taking an active participant status in it. Fitz totally calls you out in post 112 and deservedly so. Get in the game, man.
My response to fitz in 126 may seem like cheek, but it's not untrue. It takes me a little while in each game to be able to differentiate between players, and in this game I've only played with fitz before. The continuous flow of subs isn't helping either. But I'm here and definitely paying attention, happy to answer questions.
kelbris: What is it in Slandaar's recent posts that make you so confident he is scum?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 166, Randomnamechange wrote:I voted massive for a reaction. I disliked his reaction of pressuring me without referencing the vote.
It was a completely blind vote. What reaction would you like me to have in this instance? It's obviously either (a) for a reaction or (2) because you're a goober. So now you've forced me into caring whether you're playing or are a goober. I assume your blind vote in 76 for Slandaar was ALSO a reaction test? Clearly you got the results you wanted from Slandaar, would you like to share with us what you saw that made you think he was town?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 183, Riblet wrote:if you are town and not scum (doubtful) you are so blinded by OMGUS you don't even make sense anymore.
The irony in this quote is painful. Your case includes "I don't believe you actually were sick" and you expect us to believe Slandaar is the OMGUSy one?
If it comes down to Slandaar or Riblet, I'm more likely to vote Riblet. Riblet's case on Slandaar is hands-down awful, but I can't see scum sticking out their neck like this to draw so much attention to themselves D1. Slandaar's countercase isn't as bad, but it's causing him to ignore the rest of the game to some degree, which makes it feel like defense is all he's got right now. Neither are obvious scum so, if pressed, I'd vote for the one providing more noise than content. That being said, I hope it doesn't come down to that.
unvote
vote OkaPoka"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 219, kelbris wrote:@Massive what is your opinion on what Slandaar is saying? Did you feel in any way influenced by Riblet's vote?
Whether I felt influenced by Riblet is immaterial to whether Riblet was trying to influence me. Why shift the focus to me here?
In post 234, OkaPoka wrote:massive pls answer my question.
Uh ... what question? Is it this?
Why do you hope I have solid reasoning behind my vote? Also, this is not a question."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 236, Randomnamechange wrote:Everyone who is voting someone who they do not strongly want lynched should unvote.
Why do you think this is a good idea?
In post 244, OkaPoka wrote:massive why vote me?
Because you're scum.
In post 248, kelbris wrote:@Massive the reason I asked you is because I wanted to get your opinion on his post/vote right after yours in an attempt to confirm/deny what Slandaar was saying, especially since Riblet has replaced out so we have no way of asking him.
What I think you're asking is, "Did you see it as an attempt to influence you?" and not "Did it influence you?" which is what you originally asked. The answer is no; my question was tongue-in-cheek (as we were clearly still in RVS despite what other people might have believed) and it seemed an appropriate response during RVS."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 255, Saul Goode wrote:@Massive - Can you remind me why you are voting Oka? I had Hodor as Town.
I'm actually now WAY more curious why YOU are curious.
In post 256, kelbris wrote:
@Massive that is a much better way of explaining it then what I did, since you were not influenced by it that would mean that part of Slandaar's argument against Riblet/his replacement is gone.
This is still incorrect. You are still confusing "Riblet did not influence my desire to vote" (my point) with "Riblet did not intend to influence my vote" (Slandaar's argument). The question is in the intent. If you want to attack that aspect of it, you need to leave me and my reaction to it completely out of it.
I know exactly who OkaPoka replaced and am voting him for his actions since replacing. I can't even imagine how we don't lynch either him or Saul now."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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Oka is about two weeks late to tunnel on Kelbris. He ignores everything else that is going on to try and restart the initial wagon, and that includes Riblet v. Slandaar. Tries to direct the cop in 199.
I'll be very curious to see how Saul recovers, since 216 should make it clear that I'm not interested in lynching either Riblet (now Formerfish) or Slandaar, and that's also the same post I vote Oka in.
In post 274, Aristophanes wrote:And what is your read on FormerFish?
My first note on Formerfish was "Note to self: Formerfish buddying in 249" but that's not enough to get around either (a) my townfeel from Riblet (see again 216) or the actual work he's put in since arriving. Right now I'm still town on FF."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 277, Saul Goode wrote:So you are claiming that post 216 did not contain your reason for voting Oka? If not, what is your reasoning? I asked before when I told you I was Town reading Hodor.
Post 216 contains two things: (1) an analysis of Riblet v. Slandaar and (2) a vote for Oka. The two are disparate.
I ignored your question because (1) I was more interested in Oka's reaction and (2) because I don't really see a way one could townread Hodor, who had seven posts, one of which was blank and one of which was asking to be replaced."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 285, Saul Goode wrote:I guess I have similar concerns about how you came to scum read Hodor, who had seven posts, one of which was blank and one of which was asking to be replaced.
I had Hodor as null. I'm pretty sure I've said I was scumreading Oka for his own actions. This is a nice bit of deflection though."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 290, OkaPoka wrote:No shit I would vote kelbris 2 weeks late.
I replaced in the game, not start in it. Your point is null.
When does town not actively pursue lynching mafia?
The point is, there was an entire game worth of other things to post about -- Riblet v. Slandaar, the wagon on Randomidget, etc -- and you elect to dredge up a wagon from pages 1-3 rather than pay attention to ANYTHING at the moment of your actual replacement. You've said literally nothing about anything EXCEPT Kelbris. Well, and me voting you. Are you trying to distract from the randomidget wagon?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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How else do you interpret someone saying "If I was the cop, I'd do X"?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
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massive Mafia Scum
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If either of you think that scum need to be blatant in order to try and direct power roles, then you need to work on the subtle aspects of your games."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 304, Formerfish wrote:Massive. You need to pull your head out of your ass here. Kelbris said that with a VT claim a cop would know not to investigate him. Oka said that if they were a cop, Kelbris would be high on their list of targets for an investigation. Oka is telling Kelbris why their theory on claimed VTs helping town is incorrect. This is not an example of someone trying to direct PRs, this is an example of someone explaining what they would hypothetically do in a given situation.
Look, if you don't like finding out why I'm voting for someone, then don't ask, OK? I realize that this is somewhat misdirected at you, but honestly I could give a rat's left nut if you agree with what I found scummy about Oka, and having both you and Saul step up to defend him is patently ridiculous. What could possibly be so townie about Oka that the both of you feel this strong of an urge -- strong enough to evidently vote ME -- to protect him?
Oka is saying, if he were the cop, that the claimed VT would be tops on his list of people to investigate. Not a popular wagon. Not a person he's trying to figure out the alignment of. Not anyone who's actually done scummy things, of which there are plenty to choose from. SPECIFICALLY the claimed VT, SPECIFICALLY because he claimed VT out of the gate. Obviously Oka is NOT a cop due to his wording, so who exactly is this phrase for? It's definitely NOT for Kelbris in an attempt to explain to him why his early play is bad for the town (otherwise someone else would have mentioned it by now, since everyone already weighed in on this a week ago). So what is it? A scare tactic? Legitimate good townie play?
No. So you must believe that Oka is just a bad enough player to actually investigate a claimed VT on N1. He even SAYS it would be wasted, but that he'd still do it. (Note that I am just now even seeing how in 199 Oka knows that investigating Kelbris N1 would be wasted, and doesn't even consider the result that a cop might get a guilty on Kelbris, despite that being the ENTIRE POINT of that sentence.)
So is that the Oka that you're defending?
Slandaar, I see you posting, and it's not lost on me, I'll follow up in another post, no sense in it getting lost in this."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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Aristotle: I do agree with Slandaar that constantly looking for flips to help you scumhunt seems suspicious. Do you require this in every game? If so, a couple of links to review?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 324, Saul Goode wrote:I'm voting for you because your purported logic doesn't make sense according to your own internal logic.
According to you, this is the logical disconnect:
In post 285, Saul Goode wrote:In post 284, massive wrote:I don't really see a way one could townread Hodor, who had seven posts, one of which was blank and one of which was asking to be replaced.
I guess I have similar concerns about how you came to scum read Hodor, who had seven posts, one of which was blank and one of which was asking to be replaced.
Which I answered here:
In post 276, massive wrote:
I had Hodor as null. I'm pretty sure I've said I was scumreading Oka for his own actions. This is a nice bit of deflection though.
Would you like to try again?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
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Prod dodge. Not usually online on the weekend but will be back bright and early in the morning."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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Nobody's lynching Kelbris today. His early claim was an all-too-easy target and it now has failed to produce any meaningful train in two attempts. The kid has been informed why this was a mistake and still hasn't done anything overly scummy. There are plenty of better targets.
I'm still happy with my Oka vote. I'm looking forward to seeing more in the fitz / random conversation. I like Slandaar but he's giving me that feeling I get when I know I'm being too tunnelly."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 412, Slandaar wrote:He posts in a way which comes across as knowing too much.
Can you give a few examples of this? I just reviewed his ISO and couldn't find any real good examples."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 427, Slandaar wrote:Seems too self aware for newbie town.
Do you think a newbie scum would be this self-aware? It seems like the moniker you have argument with is "newbie" and not necessarily the alignment."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 442, kelbris wrote:Whilst Monkey has not done anything specifically good/bad so far, I prefer to not let the predecessor determine my vote, I prefer to evaluate a slot on teh merits (or not) of the current member. At this time, I am getting a null read from him, Riblet was acting scummy sure, BUT that does not mean he IS scum, rather his playstyle in this particular instance made it seem such. Monkey has not acted scummy and his posts have not had any slips or scumtells, so I prefer to leave him as null for now.
So I am trying REALLY hard to give you the newbie benefit of doubt, but I don't see any practical reason for anyone who plays this game to do this. Why would you ignore valuable information when trying to determine someone's alignment, just because they got replaced?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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While I'm not super excited about my company on the Oka wagon, I'm still feeling better about lynching Oka than most of the other options."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
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Oka -- Do you have ANYTHING else on anyone you're scumreading other than they're voting for you, and your bad case on Kelbris? Because this
Just sounds like salty scum."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
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massive Mafia Scum
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OK, I have no idea why Wickedest and FA are starting a counter-COUNTER-wagon with 18 hours left. And I have no idea why Kelbris is still defending Riblet/Fish with that horrible "I'm going to ignore what the slot originally did" logic."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 491, Wickedestjr wrote:
If you have an issue with this bandwagon, please criticize the reasoning and not the way in which it formed (which I see nothing wrong with).
That's a smokescreen. At T-minus 18 hours, as a townie, you should be focusing on the available options and ensuring there IS a lynch. Just because you got lucky and had two other people jump aboard (FA who voted at the same time as you and who couldn't have read your case, Oka who is voting only out of self-preservation) doesn't change the fact that you could have just as easily hung that vote out there uselessly and had no one join your cause, thereby possibly avoiding lynching ... someone.
If you want a new bandwagon, start tomorrow, when we can adequately discuss the options.
In post 493, Saul Goode wrote:all have scum equity
Single white large male seeking Captain Picard "What is this bullcrap?" GIF ... must like long walks in dimly-lit alleys, actually hunting scum rather than using phrases from Mafia Banking 101 ..."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
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I want to go back to how this Monkey wagon even started in the first place, because it's going to drive me nuts.
In post 486, Wickedestjr wrote:Unvote.
kelbris- The scummiest of the three for me. The sacrificial-acceptance post is pretty null, don't fall for it. Oka started playing that card first. Even if he's town, this is still a great strategic choice for the reasons previously stated.
At this point in time you state that Kelbris is the scummiest of your scum reads. Why, at this point in time, do you not vote for Kelbris? There are two votes on him (Fishie, Oka) and NO ONE is voting for Monkey (until your preview reveals that FA just did). He is the counterwagon you want and can probably run up. So why avoid that? Yes I realize you "wouldn't let a no-lynch happen" but I just cannot understand for the life of me how STARTING a new wagon at T-X hours (your vote was Thurs 10pm according to my boardclock, deadline was at Fri 5pm) when you have half-a-wagon started on one of your actual scumreads.
Unless it's you / Oka / Kelbris, in which case you played masterfully and I feel your pain.
Now that you know Monkey was town, how do you feel about your case on him?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
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Some day I'm going to end up referring back to this game as "The One Where Kelbris Tried To Squeeze Every Scum Tell Into One Game."
In post 522, Formerfish wrote:Massive, so you are thinking that Monkey was a cc to Oka?
Must be, right? I mean clearly the people who started the Monkey wagon didn't want to vote for Oka:
-- FA, who would rather coach Oka in 477; who is pretty much just sheeping Wickedest in 479 and throughout the rest of the Monkey wagon (despite being the "first" on the wagon, he is clearly hopping on Wickedest's reasons for voting Monkey)
-- Wickedest, who thinks he has spotted a scum slip
-- Oka, who is doing so for self-preservation reasons
But it also comes across as a Kelbris counterwagon. Both FA (479) and Wickedest (437, 486) say they're OK with a Kelbris lynch. Kelbris already has votes at this time. Why this sudden strong need to build a new wagon? There's plenty of scum that we need multiple correct lynches. I still haven't gotten a good answer about why this wagon even needed to start up, and I still don't know how it all fits together. (Obviously they aren't ALL scum together.)
In post 522, Formerfish wrote:Do you think Oka was bussing Kelbris?
Ordinarily I wouldn't say yes to this but dang, look who's voting for each other without processing any of the information from Monkey's lynch or Slandaar's kill?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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In post 529, FA_Q2 wrote:Further, how was I 'hopping on' Jester's reasons when he hadn't even posted it yet? My post went in before his.
Wickedest.
In post 485, FA_Q2 wrote:VOTE: MonkeyMan576
I really think this is the likliest place to find scum thus far.
In post 482, Wickedestjr wrote:Look at the Oka and FA reads. Monkey scum read Oka for low content but null read FA_Q2 for the same trait: low content. When Oka points this out, Monkey ignores him.
Then I bring it up again and Monkey responds with, “That's because FA is a replacement, and I was mixed on the two different players.” This is an awful explanation though, because FA being a replacement does not change the fact that Monkey null read him for low content when he thinks this is a scum tell for Oka. It doesn’t matter if he confused FA with another player - he still null read FA for low content, something that he voted Oka for. Also, FA is still not a replacement.
I think Monkey slipped up. Either that or he’s town whose thought process I simply can’t comprehend.
Try again?
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In post 529, FA_Q2 wrote:I went to a new wagon because I thought monkey was the scummiest player at that time and the killbris wagon was not going anywhere. We had been talking about lynching killbris the entirety of day one and it simply was not happening. I could have went there but I doubt it would have ended in a lynch at all.
This does not jive with your actual opinion from D1:
In post 479, FA_Q2 wrote:Not much has happened in the last 4 pages to change any of my reads. Aristo still seems damn scumy to me but does not seem to be an option for today's lynch unless something changes witht the current wagons. I would really prefer a Monkey or Random lynch - I think they are both awfully scummy players. Monkey even moreso but there does not seem to be any steam there as well. I could compramise on the killbris wagon because of
Try again?
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I can't possibly fathom the Formerfish vote."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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I'd like to hear from Wickedest before I answer any questions about how I feel about him."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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Aristophanes: Can you elaborate on what makes YOU worried about OkaPoka? Also, can you answer fitz's question from 532?
Formerfish: Probably would be good if, with your request for prods of other players, you actually post your own thoughts?
I don't see anything suspicious in the hammer. If you force someone into the position of being the hammer no matter what, you take what you get."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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I realize it's only Day 2, but isn't it time to start ACTUALLY scumhunting?
Fish is town. Wickedest is town. Fitz is likely town. The rest of you need to start convincing us why we shouldn't be voting for you.
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Ongoing Kelbris checklist:
Buddy the dead cop : CHECK"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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I'm sorry, I didn't realize I had to put disclaimers on my posts. Will definitely do so from this point forward.
And by "hunting" I assume you mean "tunnelling randomidget" because I don't see much hunting anywhere else. You hopped on Monkey close to lynch, and other than that you've ONLY been on randomidget, so I'm not sure why you'd say "nobody's been going with [you], especially on random."
Also: When you say "I think what you mean is that people aren't necessarily voting WITH you," you should probably check to see who I'm actually voting. SPOILER ALERT: It's no one.
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DISCLAIMER: All statements presented in posts by myself are the sole opinion of myself, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of vikingfan."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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Scum don't kill people because they're right."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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Can we please not speedlynch anyone? We still have 15 days."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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VOTE: Randomidget
I could also entertain discussion on FA_Q2 and vikingfan maybe. I'll follow up in the morning."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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In post 622, FA_Q2 wrote:Why random in particular?
Why random indeed? Do you see any town in his play? Even let's say you just focus on today ... do his votes look particularly towny to you? Does his game interaction seem towny? He says
In post 583, Randomnamechange wrote:There is scum in the people trying to influence people on the nk.
but makes no effort to actually follow up on this or use it as a basis for voting, instead moving from Oka to an OMGUS vote and then back."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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In post 629, Aristophanes wrote:Are we giving up on Oka? Have we just gotten bored or did I miss something where he was tow and Idget was scum?
If you can easily sum up the case on Oka's scumminess OR can confidently say 2/3ds of Oka's wagon are town, then let's have it."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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In post 631, Aristophanes wrote:Oka is a content void.
Oka has bad scumhunting based on nothing. Has done this on 3 people (Kelbris, Monkey, and Fish)
Oka really wants to look active/helpful but doesn't.
OK, let's look at these three points.
1. Other players are participating just as little, if not less so. What specifically makes it worse that Oka is doing it?
2. There are plenty of players who did bad scumhunting with regards to Kelbris, and I think everyone had their moment with Riblet (who Formerfish replaced). Even the Monkey stuff isn't that horrible (see [http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6710202]392[/url]) and he's hardly the worst vote on the end-day bandwagon.
3. This is probably contradictory to Point 1. Is he posting no content, or content meant to look helpful?
Even in your spoilered section, you brush over the discussion with Monkey. Oka isn't wrong in asking why FA gets a pass and random gets a townread, but he gets a scumread for essentially the same behavior.
I guess here's the real question: If I put up your three points against FA or Randomidget, wouldn't they be just as legitimate?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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We now have 9 days to lynch. We're getting hung up attacking non-players and scum are happy to let the conversation die.
Monkeyman576(7): FA_Q2, Wickedestjr, OkaPoka, Saul Goode, vikingfan,Slandaar, havingfitz
Gotta figure that this isn't all town. If Oka is scum, then two of his buddies aren't on his wagon, so there's at least one more scum on Monkey's wagon. Who is it?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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In post 660, Wickedestjr wrote:In post 655, massive wrote:We now have 9 days to lynch. We're getting hung up attacking non-players and scum are happy to let the conversation die.
Monkeyman576(7): FA_Q2, Wickedestjr, OkaPoka, Saul Goode, vikingfan,Slandaar, havingfitz
Gotta figure that this isn't all town. If Oka is scum, then two of his buddies aren't on his wagon, so there's at least one more scum on Monkey's wagon. Who is it?
What doyouthink?
Well, I was hoping to start some actual discussion that I could read when I get back in on Monday (I'm usually just on the periphery on the weekend) but apparently no one else thought it was interesting. Right now I think it's Saul but it could also be FA. I have you and fitz penciled in as town and am leaning town on vikingfan so it could be some amount of POE.
Since I'm in the office today and not at home, I don't have TV to distract me. As long as the Avengers Alliance daily mission isn't something good, I should be able to go back and ISO as many people as possible."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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In post 667, havingfitz wrote:I'm as big a fan of vote analysis as the next guy but what you are suggesting in this post is crap (no offense).
I'm horrible at vote analysis which is why I wanted to raise the discussion. And make no mistake, that is what this was, an attempt to spur discussion, which is sorely needed in this game if we are going to have any chance to win. Sadly, I couldn't even get actual responses from the active players -- I get a "no what do YOU think" and a lambasting of the mere suggestion of discussing it.
In post 667, havingfitz wrote:Common sense alone dictates there is 1 or more scum on Monkey's wagon. But even so...your conjecture about Oka being scum serving as an indicator that there's at least "one more scum on Monkey's wagon" is of no help, and in fact makes me wonder what your point actually is.
The point is this:
1. If Oka is SCUM then there aren't two scum on his wagon. Hence, it is very likely that one non-Oka scum is on Monkey's wagon.
2. If Oka is TOWN then it is still likely that there is scum on Monkey's wagon, and it's not Oka.
Either way, we are ignoring Monkey's wagon completely and I think we need to look at it.
In post 667, havingfitz wrote: You are willing to raise suspicions on the Monkey wagon based on the presumption that Oka is scum...yet you are not voting Oka....and you are not voting anyone in the group (i.e. Monkey's wagon) that the "at least one more" consists of. So you are staying away from the 33% chance or better odds of hitting scum that you bring up and instead go for the 20% or less chance of hitting scum off the Monkey wagon. (25% or less if you discount yourself). Either way, you're opting for the less attractive situation that you yourself are bringing up. And that's not counting the possibility that all presumed three scum could be on Monkey's wagon. And more importantly...it ignores the possibility that Oka is town (I hope not) in which case scum could be anywhere...in any number or either wagon.
Evidently it wasn't clear that my post was to start conversation (despite it saying "conversation is dying" and that me attempting to restart it follows logically) but the attempt at math here makes me itch."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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Also THIS:
In post 667, havingfitz wrote:It is a complete toss up for me between the two of them.
also makes me itch. Given that it's a toss-up between the two, why vote for the one who ISN'T at L-2?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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In post 671, Saul Goode wrote:In post 655, massive wrote:Monkeyman576(7): FA_Q2, Wickedestjr, OkaPoka, Saul Goode, vikingfan,Slandaar, havingfitz
Gotta figure that this isn't all town.If Oka is scum, then two of his buddies aren't on his wagon, so there's at least one more scum on Monkey's wagon. Who is it?
Would you mind explaining the bold? I'm not following you here.
Sure. If Oka is scum and there's a viable bandwagon, his buddies aren't going to sit on Oka for towncred in the off-chance he gets lynched -- they're instead going to (at least one) vote for the counterwagon in an attempt to save their buddy. Make sense?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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I hate how this game has devolved into picking the worst of the two worst choices. I'm not saying neither of them are scummy, but they're so blase about playing the game that they've actually bored the thread to death. But none of us who are invested in the game are going to turn on each other until they go?
We're all so polite."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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Kop replaced Kelbris. That sentence right there is enough to make you pause.
In post 750, Formerfish wrote:Rando is going to shoot. We are not going to try to handcuff him because that idea is fucking stupid.
And then what do you propose we do with him? Do you want to take him to endgame? Scum aren't going to kill him, even as a confirmed townie."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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In post 749, OkaPoka wrote:who do you suggest sir?
See, this is the problem. We have two obvious lynch choices going into the day, neither of whom has done anything to distinguish themselves as being particularly town. What this means is that it's easy for scum to blend in with town because they can just do what we're ALL doing -- wanting to lynch you or Randomidget. We all agree with each other.
So either the scum team is Oka / randomidget / Kelbris, or you guys are making it impossible for us to differentiate between the active townies and the active scum.
So maybe Aristophanes? He seems happy to lynch either of you, and seems to ONLY go between the two of you. Honestly it's starting to get POE-heavy, since I feel good about Formerfish and havingfitz, and wickedest has made me feel better about his counterwagoning yesterday. Makes me think I should look at vikingfan's ISO too."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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In post 815, Wickedestjr wrote:Also, if random is a one shot vig and we kept him alive and allowed him to shoot whoever he wanted, then he could accidentally shoot another town power role. If we tell him who to shoot, that is no longer an issue.
Why do you think that us directing random's shot would be any better at avoiding a town power role?
In post 820, Formerfish wrote:Wicked. If we tell Rando to shoot Kop and Kop is a town PR he is going to out himself to avoid dying, which is just as bad.
This is essentially what would happen, yes.
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I gotta say, I don't like how (a) random's claim has prompted a discussion of how to use his kill, but nothing about who to kill and (b) how it's essentially derailed us from scumhunting. I don't see any indication that random (a) if he is town that he will willingly take the shot we call or (b) is actually town / working for the town. So I think honestly I'm happy with my vote where it is."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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unvote
vote OkaPoke
The counterwagon to Oka D1 was on Monkeyman-town.
The counterwagon to Oka D2 is on the claimed 1-shot vig.
As much as I hate to admit it, flipping Oka will help determine what the deal was with those wagons."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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Why does it matter if it's announced that you're at L-1? You've been lynchable for days."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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In post 904, Formerfish wrote:Anyone else feel like the scum team could be rando/kop/?
Think about it, rando pretends to be a vig, and then has kop come out the gate saying why they think rando was blocked and that he is really town.
I don't. I get the feeling that there are scum in the middle of the ballpark somewhere (FA, Aristophanes, Wickedest maybe?) that are just pleased as punch that we have these poor-playing townies that we just Can. Not. Lynch."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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In post 518, Iknal wrote:
Vote Count 1.13
OkaPoka(6): massive,Monkeyman576, Kelbris, Aristophanes, randomidget, Formerfish
Monkeyman576(7): FA_Q2, Wickedestjr,OkaPoka,Saul Goode, vikingfan,Slandaar, havingfitz
In post 890, Iknal wrote:
Vote Count 2.8
OkaPoka(6): havingfitz, FA_Q2, Wickedestjr, Formerfish, massive, Aristophanes
randomidget(1): vikingfan
vikingfan(1): randomidget
Kop(1): OkaPoka
Not voting: Kop, evilpacman18
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
THATS A LYNCH.
Going back to look at FA_Q2 and Wickedest as they were on both wagons. Havingfitz, too, I guess, since even though I think he gets a pass for being forced to be the hammer, he still was on both wagons."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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FA_Q2
My concern originally was that FA_Q2 was just bouncing onto the Monkey wagon because he saw Wickedestjr start the motion -- that it's a wagon of opportunity. Unfortunately, that's kind of shot out of the water because scum!FA could have just hopped onto the Oka wagon. By his first reads-list in 377, FA is certainly listing Monkey as one of his scumreads (along with Aristophanes); Oka is a null. That's consistent with his voting on the end-of-day wagons D1.
But by 620, he's now doubting that Oka is town. Could be due to the competing wagons from D1?
It seems like my biggest problem is probably that he doesn't vote people that he finds suspicious. See 377, and then not moving onto Oka on D2 until he thought he was hammering. There's plenty of analysis but it seems vote-light. Especially since he was happy enough to vote for me for perceived lack of involvement.
But that's probably null at best.
Wickedestjr
Again, now with Oka confirmed town, it seems less likely that the Monkey wagon is to save Oka, which makes the whole play less suspicious. I mentioned originally that it could be to deflect attention away from Kelbris/Kop (as the likely counterwagon to Oka should one need to start back up) but I still think I'd find it easier to just hop on Oka in the name of expediency.
What made you abandon vikingfan as a top scum candidate from end-of-D1 to post 646? You answer questions from him even. Your interactions with him post-vote even don't seem like you think he's scum (see 699, 815 for example).
I'll be interested in what Wickedest has to say upon return from VLA.
Fitz and whomever else after lunch."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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In post 925, havingfitz wrote:In post 920, Randomnamechange wrote:If I was scum why would we shoot Saul.
EPM was the NK. I don't know why he was killed. Feel free to continue speculating.
Same person. What's your point here?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
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Same slot:
evilpacman18Saul GoodeFlames of DisasterKilled Night 2"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 4918
- Joined: July 16, 2003
- Location: The Springs, CO
When he's talking about "why would he (as scum) kill Saul" he's talking about the slot. You differentiating between two players in the same slot is just to confuse the issue."1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
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In post 922, vikingfan wrote:More to the point, I don't like how you are tunneling onto one possible hypothesis for this without even considering the much more likely scenario of rando lying.
Why does scum-randomidget lie about changing his night target?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
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massive Mafia Scum
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Sure, but why would he come into town the next morning and claim he changed his target to some other non-dead player? Why wouldn't he just say he shot Kop and was blocked? What's the benefit of the extra information?"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!-
-
massive Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4918
- Joined: July 16, 2003
- Location: The Springs, CO