No flavor! No theme! Aaaagh
433: Dry, bland, generic mafia: Game Over
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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I hope this is a cannonball and not a belly flop, Das
Dodgy: wow.
Now...
If we lynch CES:
-he's doc and mafia have a real sweet time picking off whomever they want
-he's scum and we all high-five each other
-he's vanilla (or something else) and we all (mafia, too!) shake our heads
If we don't lynch CES:
-he dies and is doc
-he dies and is something else
-he doesn't die but someone else does- mafia dump us into WIFOM fever
-no one dies- WIFOM fever on steroids
I'm in favor of not lynching CES. I think we learn more having a 'known unknown' than not having it. Rather than do the mafia's job for them, I say let them kill the doc and let's turn our attention towards the other 10 unknowns (12 minus CES and my/yourself). If he's around tomorrow we can deal with him.
Fonz does catch my eye. My first re-read through gave me the distinct impression he wants CES to either get lynched for lying or claim Doc and get NK'd.
He also had an indirect defense/affirmation of pete d (post 130) that seemed to be unwarranted. It just caught my eye when I read over it, but I'm not entirely sure why.
Looking back at pete's posts, he flipped on Fonz within 24 hours, so I need to go back there a little more later.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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ADD: I starter post 196 between 191 and 192 (stupid work getting in the way of my game )
I'll also answer that since it could be directed to me after my post. I wasn't going to, but since it's come up even beforeFonz wrote:As you're asking me what I'd do if X and Y, what do you think we should do if:
a) A pro-town player who is not CES dies tonight
b) No one at all dies tonight.Iposited those scenarios:
a) vote CES
b) not vote CES
Worst case: CES as doc and 3 other townies die over next day/night
Which can happen if we lynch CES now, tomorrow or let the mafia do it tonight. Which is why I say let the scum do it for us and direct our attention elsewhere.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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I guess I was mostly thinking out loud with that first post. It didn't seem like all the possibilities were just laid out there at all- just pushing for one action or the other.
I see us potentially coming out ahead if we let CES alone for the moment- we can always lynch him tomorrow if he survives. Yes- we do have to entertain the chance that he is scum and could weasel out of a lynch.
If he's the doc, the mafiahaveto kill him. In my own experience in Newb 309, I convinced my partner to leave the claimed cop alive and that we could reason him out as scum. Partner got investigated and I pushed too hard Day 3 for the loss.
If they let a doc live, he might end up getting a protect in on the guy the decide to off. Which could end up being the cop- who knows.
If CES lives, then we need to look at who went down Day 1 and Night 1 and go from there. But if he dies, I see the town as one effective lynch to the good because they did our dirty work for us.
I think you and I are pushing for the same thing from opposite ends. You want CES taken out up front (Day 1) and I'm pushing for it from the other side (Day 2 with more context and possibly evidence of his innocence).-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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This does kind of go back on my previous posts, but I'm not sure this was brought up in Fonz's LAL reason for voting Dodgy/CES:
It was stated that he doesn't have that ability. Is that a sufficient lie to warrant a lynch? Or is LAL generally kept to in-game lies? I'm gonna review real quick to see if that was touched on.Dodgy wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but you have only been playing for a couple of weeks andbeing privy to all members lists and their IP addresses, I can see that you havn't been a player before that date under a different name, so I ask again, are you really experienced enough to make such a statement?
Here:
also leaves me a little skeptical. Sounds a little desperate even there and reads like a scum appealing to the townies with the "you know I'm innocent"...doesn't feel like the ideal townie defense I'd be looking for. More OMGUS than "here's why I'm on the town's side"There is a VERY good chance that we have 3 Scum in this game and my guess is that you've all be outed in day 1.
I think the 3 scum are The Fonz, Dasquian and superstring91.
All 3 of you know that I'm not scum and thats why you are all going in for the kill and to get people onside.
I only bring these points up because I don't recall off-hand if they were already and I hadn't looked at Dodgy's stuff except when re-reading as a whole, and then just went with CES after he quit.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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I'm gonna go back tovote:thorgot.
5-1-07 wrote:Gorckat isn't very suspicious to me, because he is so inactive.
It strikes me as saying- "Hey, I'm not posting much like this guy over here...we must be innocent, right?" Neither post was particularly through in listing suspicions/thoughts on people. Both mention CES/Dodgy and one seems to aim at Fonz, the other he looks at the Southpaw voters.5-8-07 wrote:gorckat: Not posting much, just like me. Maybe he has finals or something, like me.
Neither post strikes me as intending to call out lurkers...I'm just not liking the connection made between me and him.
Also- he's been innattentive, which is anathema to town. He speculated I had finals (TSQ posted I was out of town) and he claims to not have seen direct questions.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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Easy post weekend catchup...not much has happened lately.
I propose the following to make InHim explain himself and the term 'scummy mediating' more thoroughly:
vote: inHimshallibe
Also:
I find those sorts of statements to suspect. Maybe I just perk up when someone uses my name in that context, but on day one with no leads I feel like someone's trying to buy my trust.inHim wrote:Kudos to gorckat for saying something about this earlier, too. I'm writing him down as a good guy at the moment.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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unvote
vote: kilmenator
Fonz, 104 wrote:That said, no reason to disbelieve the doc claim.kilm's 5th wrote:At this point though, I think Dodgy was the doc, and we will find out tonight, because I am sure that scum will make him their target tonight if he is truly the doc, at this point we need to focus our attention elsewhere.Fonz, post 183 overall wrote:1. I do not propose that he is doc who retracted a claim, I propose that as of right now, I don't know what the hell he is, but the mafia probably do.
I wouldn't even put it past dodgy that he might have been a different powerrole. Think about it, if he's trying to screw the town, and hence me, what better than to get one powerrole lynched and the other outed day one? The best case scenario right now for town is him dying night one.
If he survives, we're in the same confusing position we are in now. Like i said before, WIFOM central.
kilmenator follows Fonz pretty well here. pete had pointed out these two posts of kilm's earlier suspecting something, but not much came of it. In my reread today, they stood out.kilm's 6th post wrote:I agree that if he is not scum he will not die tonight, but I also like the "lynch all liars rule" if he is now claiming vanilla, he is basically playing head games with us.
I know it delves into the whole claim retraction thing, but I think more telling is that kilm is making predictions of scum targets both ways. I did it as a noob scum, and while kilm is no noob, I think it might have some meat on its bones.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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Wow- here's my review (using last post date before today):
Southpaw 5-2
Sweenytodd 5-3
thorgot 5-16
pete d 5-17
dom:inc 5-17
superstring91 5-17
Dasquian 5-20
CogitoErgoSum 5-20
Eletriar 5-22
gorckat 5-24
kilmenator 5-24
The Fonz 5-24
Therefore, thorgotmust, without a single doubt, be scum...
He keeps popping up on my radar, joke logic included:
vote: thorgot-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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Where there's smoke, there's fire.OTM wrote:I read through this game already, knowing I was going to be replacing into it. I decided I was most suspicious of thorgot and kilmenator.
But- let's go to five since things are rolling again and my follow-up question was ignored when kilm touched base.
vote: kilmenator-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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Flamboyant is not an adjective often used to describe me...I'll take it as a complimentNanookTheWolf wrote:The only other person really sticking out to me is Gorckat ..
I've found his play in this game to be flamboyant when voting for one. He had a sudden change of heart when Kilmenator had 4 votes and seemed to take advantage of throwing on the 5th. Originally he had voted Kilmenator, retracted his vote and placed it on Thorgot aka Off the mark, based on what? .. Joke logic?
thorgot/OTM and kilmenator are at the top of my list.
thorgot was inactive, inattentive, never really weighed in on Dodgy and even his replacement suspected him during his pre-PM reading of the thread. However, I assume his replacement will be contributing more, so some of the reasons I voted him may be invalidated.
I left kilm to vote thorgot primarily to generate some discussion. Yes- he popped up as my joke logic's target and I had missed TSQ's post saying four people were due replacement. My earlier reasons were still valid, but I probably would not have voted him had I seen he was likely to be replaced.
Hopping back on kilm to put her at -2 is the first opportunity I've had to put pressure on someone I felt deserved it.
My vote on inHim was more of a "Hey- people are waiting for you to answer a direct question!" vote.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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Now goofyOff the Mark wrote:I do agree with him somewhat about Gorckat, though... a couple of his posts seemed "off" to me too, while reading through, but overall I felt his suspicions made sense, if you can ignore the jokes. So I came away thinking, "goofy but pro-town"isa word used to describe me I'll take that as a compliment, too.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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I think the little goofy 'flair/flamboyance' might be a style thing that means I'm becoming more comfrotable on the site. This is only my second mini, plus two Newbies. In the meatworld, I try not to sweat the small stuff and do tend to make and enjoy stupid jokes and draw bizarre connections between thigns to my amusement.
As for moving my votes as I have, one thing I'm learning in this game and the other one that I'm in is that just calling someone out isn't always effective. Voting people gets their attention. No doubt I'm doing so in the most hamfisted fashion possible.
This game has gone through some weird swings of personal meltdowns and dreadful lulls and I feel I've tried to use my vote to help keep things going.
Now, as for my not wantign to lynch CES and then voting him: a few things had changed in between.
1) When CES replaced in, I felt a lynch of him gave the scum the edge if he turned out to be the doc. Hellish though it might be (WIFOM central as mentioned), I'd rather deal with him tomorrow or force the scum to take him out.
2) He said he felt "like hopping on a bandwagon" on 5-6. His next post ws 5-12: "Typo or Freudian slip?" (page 10).
3) I voted CES because he still hadn't voted anyone, and the game was craaaawling at that point.
4) After he checked in (and still hadn't voted after saying we all needed to vote more), I saw thorgot's laziness/inattentiveness. Thinking it scummy, since they can get away without paying too much attention becaue they know more than the rest of us, I called him out.
Anyway- yes, things have changed a bit since I laid out my reasons to let CES live. Still think that's the right choice at this time. Also note that between each of my vote changes, several meaty days passed- time spent reviewing and with others posting.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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1) Lurking: Had a week w/o access at work and too much going on at home to post, which was during the Dodgy drama. Also had several days out of town early-mid May.Pie_is_good wrote:Gorckat
Lurked through most of the beginning of the game. Unlike dom's posts, Gorc's posts seem to be deliberately agreeing with the crowd - nobody can look back on the general wave of arguments being made and single Gorckat out to be accused of anything. Which is scummy.
He then turns around and votehops like CRAZY (votes for 4 different people, three of them twice, in the span of 13 posts). Echoes the crowd when asked for reasoning (plus some crap reasoning of his own - generating discussion this late in day 1? C'mon). He then accuses Thorgot of lurking, after doing it himself for the first half of the game. Has crappy reasons for not voting CES ("What if he was town?"). In a particularly hypocritical post, he goes from playing the n00b card to saying he's learned from experience that votehopping is effective. Glorckat has twirked my scumdar quite a bit as well.
2) Nope- I can't be accused of much...except not being accusable. Is this a "too-townie" attack?
3) I explained my vote hops (and touch on it again in a sec) as best I could in the last post.
4) Generating discussion late- yep. Not much was happening, there was no deadline and no wagon and thus little info being put out there. I also explained, iirc, why I chose CES (lack of anything since I had earlier explained my willingness to give him a pass)
5) Yes- I'm a noob. I'm gonna learn from pretty mucheverygame I'm in or will be in now and in the near future. And I didn't say vote hopping was effective. I said voting a person was an effective way to get questions answered when they'd been avoided.
Wasn't I the first to vote kilm a couple pages back? And I'm on kilm again again, awaiting answers that (at least when I started this ~30 minutes ago, stupid work) haven't been answered on the whole Fonz following.
I imagine kilm is also under your suspicion for lurking and following, etc, etc?
Why does dom get a pass? I took a side on CES. I said "Don't lynch" at first and still do at the moment.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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@kilm: I've gone over my vote record in my recent posts.
How do you mean the switch on CES' fate was not a switch? You first said he'd get NK'd, then that he wouldn't. What do you know about tonight's actions we don't?
Also:
kilm 6 wrote:He is either the doc, or scum, or townie, but being that he already claimed doc,I find it extremely scummythat the claim was retracted
Quite different degrees of scumminess there.kilm 7 wrote:What I meant was thatI find it semi-scummythat CES retracted Dodgy's claim.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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At first, you found Dodgy's claim believable:kilm wrote:...I guess I am not entirely sure, the retraction was scummy, but that isnt the only reason that I find him scummy, Dodgy's actions were scummy too.
Fonz was the first to say 'no reason to disbelieve'. Once other people started to point it out and the claim was retracted by CES, you started to question it.kilm 5 wrote:At this point though, I think Dodgy was the doc, and we will find out tonight, because I am sure that scum will make him their target tonight if he is truly the doc, at this point we need to focus our attention elsewhere.
You went from believing the claim and thinking we should look elsewhere to it being unimaginable...kilm 7 (again) wrote:I find it likely that it could all be fluff being that Dodgy was an experienced player and I can not imagine him making such a silly move as doc.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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Probably because his meltdown made it harder to decipher him. I've never seen anything like it (as Johnny Depp said "Pi-rate" say "Noo-oob" :p).
If we had more from CES, we could simply judge the role, not the player, if that makes any sense.
On the one hand, I get laying low like he has, but I also get what someone else had said about how they'd expect him to be pushing hard trying to help the town.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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Thanks, Das, for making me a follower again :/
I wanted to dig as much as I could into all the little discrepancies I could to try and force more, but I think she covered her bases well.
I re-read OTM this morning and haven't gotten quite the same vibe as with thorgot, so I'll decide exactly who to vote later today.
unvote-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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On InHim:
1 wrote:Up through page 8, and I think I have a pair o' scum:
pete d and The Fonz
<snip> I think these two are up to no good.3 wrote:Ha, and there you go with backing up pete d again.
<snip>
I attacked you because I think you're scummy.
Despite your, presumably, best judgement that Fonz and pete are scum partners, you're willing to vote/hammer two other players with no reasoning behind why...4 wrote:@ The Fonz: you're answering questions better than I think scum would at the moment, so for this Day I'm going to have to let you sit on the back burner.
@ pete d: what was said on those first few pages haven't changed, have they? Yes, I still think shady stuff was happening there early on.
But.
I think this Day has ran its course.
unvote; vote: kilmenator - I like this vote better than the other, but with fair warning, I'll hammer Off the Mark.
You reassert that Fonz is scum.6 wrote:Alright, so the replacements have had a lot of their say as far as review goes.
And, even with it, I still want to lynch kilmenator. IH, I guess fault me for not knowing The Fonz "uses metas more," but I think in this game he's scummy for pushing his argument for so long. It just cries of a desperate attempt.
But, I have been wrong before, and kilmenator just seems to be the better choice for Today because of some coattail riding, which I will gladly take care of with a Day 1 lynch. That's why my vote is where it is.
Again with the scumbuds.7 wrote:Pretty sure my suspicions of pete d have been right where I left them. But good job trying to clear your partner's name, again. Also, I don't believe I said you were "more town" but rather that I'd let you be for Today.
You've been needling at Fonz the whole time and never voted him. Why not?8 wrote:So, moving down the list, pete d still hasn't done anything to improve his standing with me, it's just that kilm and OtM have gotten worse. The Fonz's consistency is why I've got you listed on the bottom, even if I think you're being consistent scum.
vote:inHimshallibe-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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I'm thinking Pie doesn't want to chance inHim to claim because the scum could end up with more info than would be good for the town...still rolling around some scenarios in my head, but I think I agree with his stance.
I haven't Devil's Advocated myself yet, so I'm not putting out rationale yet, if ever.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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I also hold by my earlier idea that the <weird claim player> be given a pass to see what happens tonight. Same boat tomorrow, and that worst case is today's worst case.
Skimming inHim's posts again, I noticed he said he'd hammer anyone since no case is needed to gain info. Then he suggested that Fonz (iirc) should unvote him if he's having doubts about him being scum...seems a little contradictory/self-preserving.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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It doesn't take a majority to lynch at deadline, just more that want MBL than another. I think there may be enough people willing to do that.Da Rulz wrote:4.) If a deadline passes without a player or No Lynch receiving a majority of the votes, the day will end with the person with the highest votes being lynched. If two players are tied are tied for the highest number, then the player who reached that number first will be lynched,
I'm not one of them, but don't want to see people misrepresent/understand the conditions for lynch.
MBL might be bullshitting, but its sensible shit; selfish actions don't line up with improving the team (scum) situation when throwing a fit.
OTM seemed to be caught when he backpedaled on his reasons to unvote inHim...
Fonz- how'd you get that list?-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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unVote: inHim
Quite a lot of info to take in over the weekend.
I, too, was pretty suspicious of thorgot, so the looks OTM is getting feel right to me.
I'm not sure I won't be back on inHim or not...I think he's still at -1 or -2, iirc, so I'm just backing off while I re-evaluate.
I'm waiting to see string's post and OTMs reactions today, as well as mull over the wealth of content that MBL put out in discussion with folks.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
Yeah, I'm playing it safe- I wanna nail scum over a townie. It seems like most of the action in this game happens without me around, excepting the few flurries I've had around kilm and inHim. It takes me longer to get a read on other's interactions than my own.
One possibility around the OTM/kilm connection I haven't seen mentioned is OTM being more easily persuaded by kilm's defense because he knew it to be 100% true...he voted kilm since it was easy to fit in on that dieing wagon, saw a reasonable defense likely to persuade people and then bailed.
(20 minutes later)
I was about to revote inHim, given the amazing amount of sense Das made regarding his various actions, but a re-read of inHim leads me in a circle to budding suspicions regarding Fonz.
Fonz at one point had me as his second scummiest, and most recently on his no-lynch list, even though I'd grant my recent play hasn't been outstandingly town.
(40 minutes later- chit-chat with the boss at work :p)
Right now, I'm leaning towards an inHim revote, followed by OTM and then possibly Fonz, even though no one else has expressed any desire there.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
Das wrote:As it stands I think inHim is our best lynch today, and I think his gambit smacks of desperation of someone who has no good answers to his bandwagon.Das wrote:What worries me about inHim is that it is a bandwagon that has gone to -1 under a deadline, and it feels like we've simply been distracted away from it.
These were the points that made me feel justified re-voting him. I do feel like we've been distracted off of his wagon.Pie 6 wrote:That being said, I'm finding InHim's resistance to claiming a bit scummy ("It helps the town" is unneccesarily vague, and he attacked Gorckat rather than Gorckat's legitimate point).-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
Checking in- my home PC is down a case fan and maybe a power supply, so I can only post from work for a few days.
Reading up, I'm not sure I can really add much.
Part of me is just eager to close the day and see what we can learn from inHim (or whomever's) alignment and any night actions.
Nanook and string have both been silent the last week, with string short a promised post:
That strikes me, since they are both voting MBL. Not sure if that points at anything, but does raise my eyebrow.superstring91 wrote:i am going to leave my vote on until tomorrow, when i havethoroughlyreviewed what i have missed-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
With 3 down, that's gotta be either 2x Vig or SK, 1x Vig and 1x SK, or 2 scum groups with 1x Vig or 1x SK...yeesh. Lethal.Wiki wrote:The Gunsmith can check one customer each night, and finds out whether that player has a gun (Mafia, Cops, FBI Agents, Vigilantes, Army Veterans, etc).
I don't think any one moved or added votes between there (post 551, page 23) and the deadline). The kills are pretty well spread out. I added strikethroughs for the dead.The last vote count wrote:nanook: 1 (mbl)
inhim: 5 (Daquian,IH, gorckat, kilm, off the mark)
MBL: 3 (Pie, superstring, nanook)
Off the mark: 3 (inhim,fonzpete d)
I see Das's reply in the preview, so here's watcher:
I don't think the mafia would've hit MBL since a number of people (myself included) had said he'd be lynch worthy if he survived.Wiki wrote:A somewhat common information role that can target a person at night and learn if that person targeted anybody the same night. In this regard it is generally less effective than a Tracker, who also learns who the person targeted.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
LYLO=LYnch/LOse=Lynch scum or Lose
Given 3 people dropped, I don't think its impossible to imagine a cop not coming forward if they investigated one of the fallen.
Skimming posts today, pete and superstring catch my eye as being active lurky. Nanook and Pie make me raise an eyebrow as well, but that could just be OMGUSy thoughts since they both suspected me at various times. Both had gone after either/both CES/MBL.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
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- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
Reviewing some previous posts and recent stuff, I'm thinking:
Town: Das, OTM, kilm, me
Unknown: Pie, Nanook, pete, string
I know that's a partial restatement of what I said a short it ago, but I'm comfortable asserting that I think those three (you three, since we're the only ones posting at the moment ) are on the right side of things.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!