Mini 1708: Mafia Café [Game Over!]

[Jake from State Farm]

First

[Jake from State Farm]

Why didn't you ask it?

[Jake from State Farm]

Yes

[Jake from State Farm]

I had already had it bookmarked. Once I got the role pm I went looking for the thread and bookmarked it

[Jake from State Farm]

Hard as a rock.

Ladies must love that

[Jake from State Farm]

@ASP, why are you acting so defensive?

I don't see him being defensive. why do you think he is? even if he was defensive, what does it matter? being defensive isn't scummy

[Jake from State Farm]

I didn't answer for him

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake why ask Jester and not Dr. Iforgethisname?

cause optilex's post was him just giving his opinion of the post, even if I disagree who am I to argue somebody's opinion. Jester's was an outright accusation. If somebody is going to be accused of something that I disagree with i'm not going to keep quiet about it.

[Jake from State Farm]

lol, it's not my fault you ask easy questions

[Jake from State Farm]

lol, it's not my fault you ask easy questions

So I'm torn here. I want to twist these words into a reason to vote Simple, but some people haven't even posted yet so should I push for a lynch or just wait?

well that's up to you. Personally if I saw something that was pressure worthy i'd just go ahead and push. No point in waiting for the slow people

[Jake from State Farm]

I am confused as to the content of this post, Cheetory. Is this "mine" as in "yours"? Or have you rigged the thread with explosives?

Is it also possible that I am reading too far into this post?

(also did you get my note about V/LA in this post?)

you will often see mods post something on the last post of the page so they can have the vote count at the top of the next page. It's easier for them to post something random instead of waiting for somebody else to post.

Mods prefer to have the VC at the top of the page as it makes it easier to find.

[Jake from State Farm]

Meh, not liking that vote/post by dav

[Jake from State Farm]

Maybe my definition of defensive is different, I haven't seen anything remotely close to being defensive, let alone overly defensive.

Plus defensive isn't even scummy, if anything its a town trait.

[Jake from State Farm]

Or unnecessarily defensive even

[Jake from State Farm]

Yes

[Jake from State Farm]

You?

[Jake from State Farm]

Stool = good posting, kind of surprising actually cause I naturally assumed he would be a troll account or something

vote: davsto

I see nothing wrong with simple's posts and dav's reasons are weak

[Jake from State Farm]

I see nothing wrong with simple's posts and dav's reasons are weak

Explain why you voted me - there are four other people that voted before that second post, and I waited for said post before I started to become suspicious enough to vote - how are my reasons any weaker than those who voted before?

It's the fact that you voted after the 4 other people that pinged my radar. The others I took as pressure votes, yours put him unnecessarily at L-2 and looked like you were trying to slide your way onto the wagon with fake reasons.

[Jake from State Farm]

(Also the fact that you say my reasons are weak - despite being fairly explained - and use that as your

only

reason to vote me pings my hypocrisy amusement radar)

Scum want to make sure their reasons are fairly explained so they can appear legitimate, but your reasons weren't legitimate at all.

Your hypocrisy comment makes me laugh cause it wouldn't be the first time I've been accused of hypocrisy. Plus this isn't even an example of hypocrisy

[Jake from State Farm]

See why would you unvote at l-1? That implies your vote wasn't serious yet you have taken time to explain your vote so well. You don't explain a vote like that if it isn't serious...

If you didn't vote, I probably wouldn't have said anything. You said he made 2 questionable posts and that all of a sudden was enough to make you vote, yet he didn't make any questionable votes. I've said at least twice being defensive isnt scummy so voting somebody for it, especially putting them at l-2 while trying to over explain yourself reads like scum trying to appear town to me.

[Jake from State Farm]

Ebwop
*Questionable posts*

[Jake from State Farm]

given he's written his reasons to vote after the initial votes.

Giving reasons doesn't make a person town and not giving reasons don't make a person scum

So now you know that, why would davsto be a town read for you?

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok so since you are voting simple, obviously you don't think it's you, so who do you think is more suspicious and why?

[Jake from State Farm]

Sure it would

1. Would be funny as hell
2. Regardless of flip it would provide good info. Scum get nervous when quick wagons form, especially when they are on it.

[Jake from State Farm]

Fair points, actually. Also, when people quickhammer, they're 90% likely to be town, right? I think that's a thing.

Fixed

[Jake from State Farm]

Seems scummy to me to want a push a fast lynch, especially this early in the day. How can anything be pressureworthy enough on page 3 when there are some people who haven't even posted yet?

I never said I wanted to push a fast Lynch, not sure where you got that from.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake, what do you think of Davsto's responses to your questions?

Still don't agree with him, still feel he's scummy

[Jake from State Farm]

The post I quoted didn't even say anything about pushing a fast Lynch either...

Here's the quote again

So I'm torn here. I want to twist these words into a reason to vote Simple, but some people haven't even posted yet so should I push for a lynch or just wait?

And I gave my opinion.

For the record the "lack of evidence" is a cop out. I caught RadiantCowbells on less and pushed and pushed for his Lynch as early as page 2/3.

If you think somebody is scum, there's nothing scummy about pushing their Lynch no matter how early in the game

[Jake from State Farm]

And yes its possible to be near 100% positive of somebody's alignment early day 1

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok, carry on

[Jake from State Farm]

Henry and SimpleP, those are big walls of quotes you have there. Are you guys naming any suspects or is that all just to make yourselves look better?

I'm really not sure where you guys stand right now?

this is a good point imo, way too many words just looks like filler to me

[Jake from State Farm]

Anyone else suspect that Jake may have been coaching ASP here, or at least seeding his answer for him?

How was that coaching? Cmon if you are town you gotta be smarter than that.

It was obvious simple wasn't being defensive and the fact multiple people thought that really troubles me.

[Jake from State Farm]

@stool

You're right, but there you're counting chickens before they've hatched. I've been thinking that, if Simple flips scum, Jake should be considered as a partner, but making these assumptions before a flip is jumping the gun. But again, we'll see if ASP gets lynched because

it's L-1 now please state intent to hammer kthnx.

No he's not and simple scum flip doesn't make me his partner

[Jake from State Farm]

You don't think that making associative reads before actually finding out someone's alignment isn't jumping the gun a bit?

Absolutely it is but he did that and you said he was right.

He's not right

[Jake from State Farm]

I never said that. You're twisting my words. Several words I used include "consider" and "thinking". It's a possibility to consider, not a certainty. I'm not gonna go "ayy let's all lynch Jake" if Simple flips scum.

I never said you said it either, you are twisting my words.

If simple flips scum, which I don't think he will if he gets lynched, his flip has no bearing on my alignment at all. So there would not even be a possibility of me being scum if he flips scum.

Everything you post just reaks of scum so I'm really happy with my vote on you

[Jake from State Farm]

If simple flips scum, which I don't think he will if he gets lynched, his flip has no bearing on my alignment at all.

If I were coaching you I'd subtly be telling you to hush right now 'cuz this looks crazy

It actually doesn't. Me accurately saying a player wasn't being defensive has no bearing at all on my relationship with said player. I just stated facts and the only people who would try to suggest that we are linked somehow would only come from scum pushing an agenda. Town using logic would not(or should not) be so narrow minded. Anyone who's town and that narrow minded, well I can't say my thoughts about that cause I'm trying to be nice and not insult people anymore.

[Jake from State Farm]

How generous, Jake. You defending someone totally has baring on whether or not I think you're scum upon their flip, though. Whether or not that's what you're doing, that's what it looks like.

p-edit: I dunno where that question's going.

Stating fact isn't really defending anyone, its stating fact. If its considerd defending than its unintentional.

Simple wasn't being defensive, he answered the question he was asked and the part he was supposedly "defensive" about was when he was asked why he chose a person for their random vote. Why the hell would anyone get defensive over that? if somebody asked me a stupid question, my response would be with disgust/sarcasm/or something not particularly nice.

I read his all capitalizing the word random as his way of showing disgust/frustration with being asked a stupid question. His reaction was justified and certainly wasn't defensive. The question should have never been asked in the first place IMO.

[Jake from State Farm]

If he gets to L-1 I'm gonna unvote for obvious reasons

But again, we'll see if ASP gets lynched because it's L-1 now please state intent to hammer kthnx.

So earlier you said I pinged your hypocrisy radar

So mind explaining your hypocrisy?

[Jake from State Farm]

Davsto in Post 102 you reference your one game to say how quick lynching hardly helps town, but when chaos references your one game in trying to read you it is "pathetic". Why is it okay for you to use your only game as an example but not okay for chaos to do it?

Because I've read other games on site and seen quick lynches which didn't help. I merely used mine as an example because I was there and saw the result myself, more clearly.
Meanwhile, unless Chaos has managed to find games which I haven't yet played, the meta is entirely based off a single game, in which I played as a single alignment.

Those are both fairly different situations.

I smell manure, anyone else?

[Jake from State Farm]

If you read other games (which I totally don't believe you did), there is no way you come to the conclusion that they mainly come from scum. In my experience its actually the other way around.

And sure quick hammers don't really help town in most games because people go into future days allowing themselves to be manipulated by scum. People just assume the quick hammer has to be from scum and it totally derails useful conversation. In my experience its scum who is cheerleadingl the wagon goading people to vote without actually being on it or being on right before the quick hammer, like the last 2 spots.

Now sure I've seen exceptions, but the one constant is way more town quick hammer than scum

[Jake from State Farm]

Btw, anytime you want to post links to support your claim and prove my own experience wrong, I'd gladly look them over

[Jake from State Farm]

Admittedly tho, I think the chances that what I suggested is actually what took place are pretty low. Whether or not that ends up being the ultimate explanation, I still think the weirdness of Jake's behavior across 34 and 38 is worth making note of.

There's nothing weird about those posts. Why do you think they are weird?

[Jake from State Farm]

this is a post in favor of everything stool is saying in the above two posts

I'll ask you the same question since you just made a fairly useless post.

[Jake from State Farm]

If you'd been reading my posts, you'll notice in one of them I changed my mind in what I was going to do, after you said that a quickhammer can actually provide more info.

But but you said you disagreed with me... You even tried to show an example where it didn't provide info...

Very weird to be OK with something you tried to disprove...

[Jake from State Farm]

Well I'm sorry for not being entirely perfectly educated in every damn happening on this site after playing through one game and reading through a bunch of others. For God's sakes, you seem to be reading my ignorance as maliciousness. It's not.

No I'm not actually, but I do point out things I feel are untrue. Have any links? Surely you remember which quick hammer games you have read, can't be that many

[Jake from State Farm]

this is a post in favor of everything stool is saying in the above two posts

I'll ask you the same question since you just made a fairly useless post.

saucy.

34 says verbatim "I don't see him being defensive. why do you think he is? even if he was defensive, what does it matter? being defensive isn't scummy" which strikes me as somewhat indignant. Like you took two possible ways to react to Jester and smashed them both together. The second half says defensiveness isn't scummy, which makes the first half seem unnecessary.

I dunno man it's just weird.

That's not really weird at all. It's actually educating the ignorant. I have seen that "defensive' accusation hundreds of times, been accused of it myself a bunch even.

Town and scum both get defensive. That's actually the best way to discredit town IMO. Defensive has such a negative connotation when human nature is to defend yourself when wrongly accused. In this instance I didn't see simple get accused of anything so he had no reason to be defensive.

It reminds me of the game where I caught RC, he accused me of being apologetic when I clearly wasn't.

False accusations are scummy but multiple people have accused him of being defensive and I doubt all of them are scum.

The people I'm most suspicious of though are dav and the dude who's name starts with an O who I can't remember at this moment

[Jake from State Farm]

tell what?

[Jake from State Farm]

tell what?

why he suspicious

1. because false accusations are scummy and he was the first to make a false accusation
2. he says of the people voting simple, the person he is most suspicious of is Jester yet he has not tried to interact with him at all. If he is suspicious of him i'd expect him to try and figure him out by asking him questions or something.
3. He says he still likes his vote on simple because he has been unconvincing, however I have seen simple make quite a few posts in an attempt to convince people he is town and optilex hasn't responded to any of them. To me It feels like he is complacent with where things stand with the simple wagon and imo I equate complacent behavior with scum

[Jake from State Farm]

Henry and Bells should explain to me why Jester's a better vote than the two bigger wagons right now

why do they have to do this? trying to steer the focus to the largest wagons is anti-town imo because it narrows the focus. It's still early in the day phase so pressuring other people is a good thing.

[Jake from State Farm]

that being said, Henry isn't voting anyone at the moment and i'd love cowbells to explain why they are voting monkey since he didn't really provide a reason

[Jake from State Farm]

Mod, I think the VC is wrong because Henry unvoted in post 103 and I do not see him making another vote after that

Sorry you're right. Will try to not do votecounts right before I go to sleep from now on.

[Jake from State Farm]

Dunno man, I feel like scum has more reasons to act like that. Newbie town players often do this too, but ASP definitely isn't one.

I disagree with this 100000000%

I have been playing mafia for over 5 years and still get called defensive as town.

The game I played with cowbells where I had him caught on page 1 he tried to discredit me by calling me defensive. I can probably point to 2 or 3 more games just under the Jake from state farm name alone where I have been accused of being defensive.

I don't ever consider my actions defensive but I can understand why people think they are.

Hmm so by that logic, doesn't the fact he didn't put much thought into his vote mean he's less likely to be scum?

But he did put thought into it, in fact he was the one who said his reasons were fairly explained.

Each game is different, I don't think we should feel entitled to ignore other people's arguments just cause similar ones weren't valid sometime before.

fair enough, but there was no hypocrisy from me this game. Only one guilty of hypocrisy so far this game would be him which I have already pointed out.

It would almost certainly be a mislynch and we got plenty of time for that. Not enough info at this stage to go on after the flip imo.

Agree simple will probably flip town, disagree that there isn't enough info to evaluate. Already have 2 leads off the people voting simple and neither has done anything to change my reads on them

Shit didn't seem to bother you then.

because that alone isn't a reason to scum read somebody, but when you add in the other 2 things that I mentioned it makes him look worse. Note I am not voting him so my suspicion of him isnt as strong but he is certainly on my radar.

Also pressure votes are dumb when we could be voting scum.

1. pressure votes are never dumb
2. I 2nd what jester just said, nobody knows for sure who is scum
3. I personally think simple hasn't done anything at all to warrant the wagon on him nor has anyone provided any compelling arguments as to why he is scum. His wagon started because of an accusation (mutiple) that he was being defensive which 1. I feel isn't even true and 2. isn't ever a reason to vote somebody because it's not alignment indicative.
4. I feel that dav has done many scummy things and would absolutely be a better day 1 wagon but i don't have a problem with people exploring other options as it helps generate more discussion and the more people interact with each other the easier they are able to be read. Pressuring the people who aren't contributing as much is probably a good thing, especially day 1 where scum can easily fly under the radar.

[Jake from State Farm]

Which is why I want them to tell me why their suspect is better than mine.

why do you think simple is scum again?

[Jake from State Farm]

I mean the reason I brought it up is because you specifically say he's making a false accusation. Before it was just a difference in opinion, but now that you have more reasons to not like him, suddenly that bit's bad too.

yes before it was just a difference of opinion, but after that he has done additional things that I also find suspect which makes me now reconsider my original opinion of the first part....

Imagine that, a player does scummy things and that causes another player to re-evaluate all of their posts. I swear that sounds like scum hunting to me...

[Jake from State Farm]

His whole play comes across as disingenuous. He posts a thing saying he laughed at my joke, I ask him why he said it and he launches into this longwinded explanation that is frankly hard to believe. You said it yourself earlier: scum want to look like they have a good reason for everything. Also it doesn't help that since then apparently everyone on his wagon is some form of scummy according to him.

1. he didn't laugh at your joke, he laughed at the conversation between the two of you
2. You ask him to explain himself and you don't like his answer so that makes him scum? meh that seems like a stretch to me and could easily be looked at as a setup

I don't think the fact that it was long winded actually makes a difference, the only part of his explanation that I don't really agree with is I didn't find anything funny with your exchange with monkey. I could see where somebody could think the two of you are distancing each other.

My main issue with you is why did you not explain yourself when you voted him. Instead you just said "weee" which implies that your vote was just a sheep vote and you didn't actually have a reason for it. All of these reasons coming after the fact could easily be you trying to cover your own ass.

That being said I don't think you are scum, just complicated

[Jake from State Farm]

aww did I strike a nerve or something? cause ain't no bullshit coming from me. you want to see some actual bullshit?

YES I didn't like his answer and that makes him scum

^ that is complete bullshit. Just because you don't like a player's answer doesn't mean he is scum. It just means you disagree with him.

[Jake from State Farm]

@stool,

1. I don't know why you think you are being misrepresented because I didn't say anything about it being weird to be defensive. I asked you to explain why you thought those posts you pointed out were weird because they were not weird to me

2. As I already explained, I didn't answer the question for him but to be fair that really wasn't a real question. It was an accusatory question and those almost always elicit one type of response, a "I wasn't" response. I have never seen somebody be accused of being defensive and they say "oh yeah I am being defensive" Just like in games when I ask people why they are lying, I never expect somebody to respond with "oh here's why i am lying" no, they are going to respond with "I wasn't"

It was an accusation not a true question. Not to mention Simple was still free to answer the "question"

3. as for the 2nd quote - what I did in that quote is NOTHING like the first one, not even by your own viewpoint because the first one you think I answered a question for simple, in the second I didn't answer anyone's questions, instead I asked a question.

So clearly you are confused.

and btw, yes I am a motherfucking genius.

[Jake from State Farm]

I like vote parking on scum.

10 points to RC

It reminds me of the game where I caught RC

The game I played with cowbells where I had him caught on page 1

I caught RadiantCowbells on less

It reminds me of that game where I endgamed town by getting Jake's slot lynched when he was a cop inno.

Hey had I not been forced out. That wouldn't happen. You got blessed with a bunch of idiots

[Jake from State Farm]

that isn't even an argument.

@jester - so what caused you to change your mind on simple and who is your top scum read now?

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm convinced people don't know the meaning of the word defensive, certainly monkey doesn't cause in no way have I been defensive the entire game

[Jake from State Farm]

1. That certainly wasn't a joke
2. There was nothing wrong with my response
3. I'm not scum

Sorry you lose

[Jake from State Farm]

1. Still no joke was made
2. Nope
3. No I'm not

[Jake from State Farm]

My signature doesn't imply I'll be agreeable, it implies I'll be having fun which I am doing.

What is keeping my vote on Davsto is the fact I think he's scum

[Jake from State Farm]

Dayvig shot at JohnnyFarrar

That would be a great shot. He's more interested in trolling than playimg the game. Than again so are you...

[Jake from State Farm]

I've provided 2 potential suspects with good reasoning for both. People have agreed with my reasons, including Johnny who wants opti to respond to part of my reasoning. Johnny sheeped others and I haven't seen a single person agree with his reasons.

So shocker, I disagree with that assessment

[Jake from State Farm]

Whats your read on opti? Also thoughts about the stuff I said about him? Seems like nobody but Johnny responded to it

[Jake from State Farm]

Going to have to disagree with you about what you say he's done cause I don't see that at all.

I certainly am not trying to discredit his opinions plus he hasn't shown suspicion of me

[Jake from State Farm]

I mean Johnny just said he's not getting scum vibes from me so clearly you can't even be bothered to read the thread.

[Jake from State Farm]

he hasn't shown suspicion of me

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p7156384
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p7157569
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p7157901

They read as a bit of suspicion on you.

Read 261...

[Jake from State Farm]

Post 264 was a waste of time and looks like buddying

[Jake from State Farm]

@mod also do you know how long Emc will be VLA?

i'm not the mod but I did some digging and looks like his v/la is set to end tomorrow.

[Jake from State Farm]

I am probably not the best to answer that question cause my answer will always be no.

side note, who is this person in your avatar?

[Jake from State Farm]

I have played with him a couple of times but the only game I remember is the most recent one where he was scum so that's not useful.

If he was scum do you honestly think he would be acting irrational and anti-town? I used to go after people like that but it never turned out good so now I just try to ignore them. I will say the general accepted rule with RC is never let him live to mylo/lylo

[Jake from State Farm]

welcome to mafiascum, home of the most anti-town players in the history of mafia.

[Jake from State Farm]

My issue is fencesitting between a policy lynch and a scum read.

Okay then, you provide a clear read for Cowbell's alignment.

Yeh.

Thought not.

Inability to determine scum or town means he's null.

You don't Lynch null reads, you investigate or vig kill them.

You Lynch scum reads.

That concludes mafia 101 (checks to make sure we aren't in the newbie forum)

[Jake from State Farm]

If he was scum do you honestly think he would be acting irrational and anti-town?

If, in regards to someone, you have to say "they're so anti-town they must be town", you should know that something is wrong and that player shouldn't be there to fuck up town.

If Cowbell is going to act in a way similar to scum, I say we treat him in a way similar to scum.

Since you didn't technically answer the question. I'll assume you are saying yes? You think scum will play irrational and anti-town?

See I don't. I think scum want to avoid as much negative attention as possible.

[Jake from State Farm]

Scum RC based on my 1 game didn't act irrational or anti-town, its how he was able to survive and win.

You didn't act irrational and anti-town when you were scum

I've never acted irrational and anti-town as scum

See a pattern here?

P.edit- yeah the best way to disregard logic is to brush it off as wifom. Gtfoh with that. Anything and everything can be disregarded as wifom

[Jake from State Farm]

In this game I use past experience and gut to determine who's scum. If day 1, scum want to intentionally troll to get by on wifom. I'm OK with that. I'd much rather Lynch somebody that people can actually provide examples of scummy behavior. Trolling is anti town but not scummy only cause I've seen far too many people troll on purpose.

Dav said he can't tell me if RC is scum or town. You don't Lynch those people. You Lynch who you think is scum.

Now supposedly Dav has scum meta for this behavior, once o verify that it will just be another thing to use to show he's scum

P.edit - I'll give you one post game

[Jake from State Farm]

I read him as scum, but with a side chance of being town who is just playing irrational and anti-town and neither of these are worth keeping alive.

If he continues all game I'll concede yes he's not worth keeping alive but trolling day one i don't care about cause day 1 sucks

[Jake from State Farm]

P.edit- yeah the best way to disregard logic is to brush it off as wifom. Gtfoh with that. Anything and everything can be disregarded as wifom

This is exactly Wifom though. Like, textbook Wifom. Do you just not believe it exists?

P-edit: So Chaos, is he scum?

I know it exsists, but itsn't reliable and ultimately just mind fucks everyone.
i'd rather just go with the most logical explanation and if I end up being wrong than good on the player who fooled me. I can't sit here and second guess myself over every little thing and wifom forces you to do that.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake's narrow-mindedness

I am the one being narrow-minded?

here is an example of narrow minded thinking

since town has no reason to play that way

I can give you 1 very good reason why town would want to troll on day 1. Maybe he is a PR and he wants to make sure that 1. he isn't lynched but more importantly 2. he isn't NK'd

I can give you another very good reason why town would want to troll on day 1. Reaction testing

I am one of the most open minded people. I am the one who spoke up when people accused somebody of being defensive and said that his actions don't really look defensive AND even if somehow I am wrong and he was being defensive, that isn't a reason to lynch somebody because town are defenisve also.

so you basically lose all credibility when you call me the close minded one.

determindness to control the game on his own

Am I really doing this? I don't see how I am controlling the game. I am trying to convince people to lynch my top scum read which is the whole point of the game.

rather than working with town,

how exactly am I working against the town?

defensiveness of those who I read as scummy

sure I don't agree with you on simple being scum but that is because nobody provided a single viable reason for him being scum. being defensive isn't a scumtell, never has been and never will be.

I certainly don't agree with you on RC since you don't even believe that RC is scum. You already admitted you basically want to policy lynch him.

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh Mr narrow minded claims multiple times he can't think of a single reason and when somebody provides some he instead of admitting he was narrow minded blames the person who just schooled him... Yeah see that's why you are scum.

I don't play well with others, that's one of the biggest criticisms against me.

You think RC is dong all this to fool little old me? Dude owned me and completely discredited me the last game and people sided with him, why would he do all of this to fool the guy he knows he can play like a fiddle?

Some of the things I state as fact, cause they are facts. If somebody is wrong about something its a good idea to correct them IMO. If that's controlling the game then I guess I'll claim guilty as charged.

Sorry that's all out of order

[Jake from State Farm]

Well in some good news Dav is at L-2. Maybe he'll start conversing with the other people voting him now

[Jake from State Farm]

That's a very complicated way of saying you defended A Simple Plan. Still don't get why you can't just say you defended him because you thought he looked like town.

There was.never a question about me defending him, I was accused of answering for him which is completely different.

By saying I disagree with the reasons for him, that's clearly me defending him. I don't think I ever denied that, if I did it was not intentional cause I was defending him

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't believe you but

unvote

for now

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok Henry, that last quote is a good one, I guess I was defending him but that really wasn't my intention. I just didn't see him being defensive and the wagon basically formed off that accusation. The other quotes though don't really show that but whatever, I'll admit my mistakes and move on.

@monkey, I think he's lying cause his play doesn't look like a doctor and scum fake aim doctor all the time to hope the real doctor cc's

[Jake from State Farm]

Basically, since I think almost everyone scumreads Davsto, we should let the scum do our work for us in the event that we're wrong on Dav. If Dav survives N1, we either bought the doctor a night action (and we can tell him who to protect) or we're lynching near-confirmed scum D2.

I dislike this rationale. Surely scum could just use this to their advantage, kill someone else and then get a free day of people lynching a town power role over scum?

Except that's a risky strategy for scum..

Did you crumb your role at all?

[Jake from State Farm]

Breadcrumb, some people like to drop hints in their posts as to their role

[Jake from State Farm]

I'd be OK with a monkey lynch

[Jake from State Farm]

Real Doctor should not CC.

[Jake from State Farm]

Also, Jake (from the Planet State Farm)- now that we've established you defended A Simple Plan earlier today I'm going to consider that an association.

Ok?

Would be pretty stupid to defend a scum buddy like that if we were scum together but you are entitled to your opinions, no matter how wrong they are

[Jake from State Farm]

There goes the neighborhood

[Jake from State Farm]

Sup

Weekend was busy, kinda don't really know where else to go from here so I'll let someone else take the reigns

[Jake from State Farm]

well i'm bored

vote: havingfitz

[Jake from State Farm]

474 (Jake): Why Fitz?

Why not Fitz?

Fitz replaced my second scum read.

Fitz came in and didn't really catch-up fast enough for my liking. Once I voted him though he finally completed his catch-up and it was underwhelming for me, especially since he didn't even post like the Fitz I remember.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake From State Farm's vote on HavingFitz makes no sense at this point in the game. Is it an attempt at humor? Please take the game more seriously, Jake, like the rest of us are.

Why do you think it's an attempt at humor when I clearly explained my reason for my vote and there was nothing humorous about my reasons

[Jake from State Farm]

Why do people keep pushing this "Davsto could be lying town" angle? It doesn't make any fucking sense. If Davsto's claim is fake, that means he's scum.

I've seen quite a few people on this site who fake claimed PRs as town.even fake claimed doc.

I wouldn't say its common on this site but its happened more than it should

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm not OK with a facts lynch in day 1, yes I think he's probably lying and scum but I'm not willing to risk it on day 1.

So people should really be voting elsewhere

[Jake from State Farm]

Facts = davsto (stupid phone)

[Jake from State Farm]

I also don't understand the Jester wagon. Maybe I need to re-read his posts but I don't remember him doing anything lynch worthy. Someone want to fill me in?

[Jake from State Farm]

I wouldn't really say his vote was suspicious and the way he explained his reasoning later actually made a lot of sense. The self hammer comment doesn't do anything for me cause I see a lot of people say and do stupid things. Right now he looks like he did what he felt was right, is now getting backlash for it and feels bad about it. That all reads town to me


Now if we want to talk about weird L-1 votes, may I direct your attention to Havingfitz's vote.

he claims he has read the entire game, gives a useless list of reads (with no reasoning behind any of them) and than basically hops on davsto and when you read his justification it just looks like he wants to get rid of a claimed pr. His reasoning doesn't make sense from a town pov.

[Jake from State Farm]

probably cause we aren't lynching a claimed pr day 1.

That's smart play, let's play smart and not stupid ok?

[Jake from State Farm]

no that's not stupid at all.

[Jake from State Farm]

Like you want a fucking medal for having caught and failed to get me lynched in one game while being wrong about my teammates?

In my last 5 games to end, 4 of them have involved me being right about 100% of the scum team, and that's not even going into ongoing.

You want to see smart play, shut the fuck up and lynch Davsto.

I am not even talking about that game right now so not sure why you brought it up.

IMO it is never smart play to lynch a claimed PR on day 1. If he is actually telling the truth (which I don't think he is but it is still possible) you are doing mafia's job for them.

[Jake from State Farm]

swaying me about what? my stance on dav not getting lynched? no as much as I think he is probably scum, I know i am not always right and the smart play is to never lynch a claimed PR day 1. Nobody is going to convince me otherwise so it's pointless to even try.

[Jake from State Farm]

New addition to Jake drinking game, take a drink when dick measuring happens

The only one dick measuring is RC.

[Jake from State Farm]

'm not going to stop looking at other people.

Which other people you looking at? Why are you looking at them?

[Jake from State Farm]

What did he do that you consider "blatantly making a spectacle of himself"

[Jake from State Farm]

I can think of 2 games off the top of my head where a PR played poorly and was run up day 1 and forced to claim. One was a tracker, other was a doctor. So its possible for town to play poorly.

If we are all wrong about davsto, which is technically possible, lynching him day 1 hurts town, more then helps.

That's why fitz's vote looks bad. He doesn't even want to discuss what's happened so far, he just drops a l-1 with no real reasoning and has vanished. That's scummy

[Jake from State Farm]

Johnny.....what are your reads at the moment?

See this is the mind of thing he would ask before placing a vote on someone IMO, especially if he was really trying to get into the game and scum hunt.

This question came after Johnny said my vote on him wasn't a bad one. It's fake scum hunting imo

[Jake from State Farm]

Mostly the people I singled out in 491.

ok thanks, somehow missed or overlooked this post.

but aren't emotional appeals frowned upon in this game?

just cause they are frowned upon (which i don't even know if that's true) doesn't mean they don't exist.

Jester's vote on Davsto was terrible, he deserved to be called out on it

I disagree, maybe on the surface at first but once he explained himself what he said made sense. What is your thoughst of Fitz's L-1 vote? if you thought jester's was bad, surely you have to think fitz's was bad too. If not than something is clearly wrong with your brain.

FSS had a good point about the heat on Monkey Saint (pray for us) and people casting suspicion on him but not voting, but he lost some of his zest when he started misrepresenting quotes. I'm not a fan of that deception to say the least. Why ruin a perfectly good point by being a sneaky pete? It pings on my radar,

So why aren't you voting FSS? Or at the very least questioning him more than you are now, which is not at all. Why not give Dav the benefit of 1 night phase just in the off change he is telling the truth?

I found the Marvin Manganoo and HavingFitz posts hopping on the spicy hot Davsto wagon bland and derivative

oh you do give thoughts about fitz. you don't seem to have an issue with it when his reasoning is hands down worse than what jester gave?

they gave off the impression of just going with the flow

This is actually a huge red flag imo. Scum are the ones more likely who are going to sit back and go with the flow

Davsto is still the best lynch for the time being, though.

please let me hear you rationalize how it's better to lynch the claimed doctor over somebody else. I have yet to see anyone rationalize it in a way that makes sense, maybe you can enlighten me please.

[Jake from State Farm]

because pretty much all reads lists are useless, especially ones that don't include any reasoning or justification what so ever.

Now if you want to, try taking your scum reads and maybe 1 or 2 town reads and providing actual justifications for those and maybe i'll consider it useful.

[Jake from State Farm]

also you are wrong that I am coming after you cause "you are you" as you put it. Your slot was my number 2 scum read before you had replaced in, had you actually caught up you would have known that.

you have basically skated by providing no real usable content.

[Jake from State Farm]

Maybe not

[Jake from State Farm]

Well it looks like Dav is going to get lynched. I really hope he is scum but than again it sucks to be right about scum but not actually voting him cause of my never wavering beliefs

[Jake from State Farm]

Well it looks like Dav is going to get lynched. I really hope he is scum but than again it sucks to be right about scum but not actually be on the Lynch

[Jake from State Farm]

I didn't think that first one posted. Smh

[Jake from State Farm]

I would be interested in Jake's opinion. Jake, you aren't willing to vote Jester as the only current alternative to Davsto? Even after his continued lurking and excuses?

No I'm wouldn't. As I said.already I didn't see his l-1 vote being bad and his reasons for it I actually agreed with si why would I want to vote that person?

[Jake from State Farm]

Really? Your first post after I joined would indicate otherwise:

Not really, that lost just implies jm not happy you are in the game. I was already scum reading your slot before you replaced in. I don't hold grudges and use them to go after people despite what you think or are trying to get everyone else to believe.

I was scum reading your slot, you replace in and have done nothing protown. When town replace in they actually attempt to generate discussion from their catch-up and they certainly don't drop an l-1 vote on a claimed PR without any sort of attempt at interacting with the person they are voting.

All your actions don't resemble what a Townie would/should do.

If I'm wrong.I'm wrong and you played poorly but I think your slot has done enough scummy things to think I'm not wrong.

And get that grudge idea out of.your head, I'm not attacking you cause you are you

[Jake from State Farm]

I've got it.

Now don't go and give it to anyone else

No promises.

[Jake from State Farm]

Post 549 first comment - "that lost just implies jm not happy you are in the game"
Post 549 last comment - "get that grudge idea out of your head, I'm not attacking you cause you are you

no contradiction at all..

just because I am not happy you are in a game doesn't mean I am attacking you because you are you.

I WAS SCUM READING YOUR SLOT BEFORE YOU TOOK OVER.

That's a fact. You trying to say otherwise is basically just you lying.

[Jake from State Farm]

as much as I hate no lynches, a no lynch is better than possibly lynching a town doctor, even if i don't believe he is the town doctor.