Mini 1708: Mafia Café [Game Over!]

[Marvin Maganoo]

Hello friends.

VOTE: davsto

Because I like Ryan from who's line is it anyway more than Colin.

[Marvin Maganoo]

A super busy day at work yesterday has kept me away for 6 pages. Seems some of you have been very busy. I have another busy day ahead, but I will have more time to post this evening. In the mean time I am keeping my vote on davsto. I am in agreement with Jake that his vote on ASP was at just the right time to try to not look suspicious as scum letting town lead a mislynch. Then when questioned about it he said that it was only L-2 and that he wanted to apply pressure, but if it got to L-1 he would unvote. Doesn't letting them know that you will unvote at L-1 defeat the purpose of a pressure vote? The subsequent explanation about having so much time in the day to get more info, just reads to me like him grasping at straws to make his comments look townie.

Johnny looks townish so far, but when he makes comments like "im so torn...I want to twist your words" it gives me bad feels. Aside from that comment he has generally been scum hunting and asking relevant questions. His initial question towards ASP was innocent, and I think ASP did overexplain in his answer. This initially had me reading ASP as scum, but as he has posted more and answered more questions it looks like his style of play is to explain things more in depth than some others.

I don't have much on anyone else right now as those were the ones that stuck out to me the most thus far.

[Marvin Maganoo]

Davsto in Post 102 you reference your one game to say how quick lynching hardly helps town, but when chaos references your one game in trying to read you it is "pathetic". Why is it okay for you to use your only game as an example but not okay for chaos to do it?

[Marvin Maganoo]

I misinterpreted the intentions of 102. I now understand that you were using that game as an quick example of a game that had a quick lynch rather than searching for games that you had read previously that had a quick lynch to reference.

[Marvin Maganoo]

I'm going to look like a tunnling idiot, but I can't get myself to stop reading davsto as scum. It feels like either his posts are fluff Post 216, or he's tossing scum around to see what sticks like post Post 213. When called out on his scum flinging he always has some excuse why he said it, but that it isn't a real read.

Can you give us some solid reads with concrete opinions on people?

I like jake as town. He has solid logic behind what he's been saying and he hasn't waivered on any of the points he's decided to defend, although most of them are in regards to Simple and his being or not being defensive. He hasn't avoided conflict with anyone else in the game either which looks like he's trying to get reads to me.

I like jesters reply to davsto's claimed paranoia and agree 100% with Post 220. I'm not reading him either way right now though.

[Marvin Maganoo]

I'm sorry for being absent and not giving much content to be read on. I'm having a ridiculously busy week at work, and it's not going to get any better until Sunday.

Johnny mentioned that I was coasting in an earlier post. I would agree with him at this point. I have a naturally quiet play style, but I'm working on being more vocal. I still like Johnny contribution and I'm still in the mindset that the Johnny vs jake commentary is town vs town while the scum sit back and let it happen.

I haven't had much time to run through all the new pages in depth, but this wagon forming on monkey seems sudden and for no other reason that he quickly changed his vote to jester after stool brought up something that he liked. I need to dig deeper because I may have missed something else though.

UNVOTE: davsto can't lynch the medic claim, so I'll just hold on to my vote until I get a chance to really read through all of this. I will say that I'm still not sure about you, but that is a day 2 problem now.

[Marvin Maganoo]

Wait. People are only talking about being okay with voting on monkey? No one has actually done so yet? What the hell? If you're okay with a vote then why didn't you vote?

[Marvin Maganoo]

Looking back through I don't see where he says that your claim is perfect or true. As far as I see he only points out that we should give you a chance to prove your claim before we consider actually lynching you. He actually goes on to say that we should leave your wagon alone for now, which I agree with since we really shouldn't waste time trying to lynch you given that lynching the you at this point would be bad for town.

Can you point me to where he said that your claim was perfect and true or how he is buddying up to you?

[Marvin Maganoo]

What I have confusion on is everything you are saying right now davsto:

You are currently voting on Monkey for....reasons?.....But you agree with Monkey's vote on Jester. You don't find anything that bad with Jester (yet you agree with Monkey's vote on him), but the reason you are not voting is because you would feel stupid?

I need to move on from this, because you are not the lynch today.

I literally can't even right now.

[Marvin Maganoo]

You are right it is. At this point I am not a huge fan of RC. He has 6 posts between 221 and 231 that are just useless fluff. He has pinged out monkey as his vote since very early on and hasn't seemed to be reevaluating at all. He changed his vote to davsto in Post 242 because monkey was "soft defending him by discrediting jake". He did that weird fake DayVig shot on johnny but didn't give any reason or any benefit he had from it. When questioned at one point he basically said "you're not on my level" in Post 281

VOTE: RadientCowbells

p-edit.....And RC drops a logic bomb completely changing my mind on him. UNVOTE: RadientCowbells

[Marvin Maganoo]

At this point I am caught in a mechanics issue. I don't like davsto AT ALL, but in my experience it is frowned upon to lynch the medic claim day one without giving them one night.

If we leave him alive it opens us up to all sorts of WIFOM that I get a headache just thinking about. At some point I need to choose a side, I just need to think it over before I do.

[Marvin Maganoo]

I'm around, sorry. I had people call off on my day off yesterday and ended up working 17 hours. I'm catching up and will be posting more this evening.

[Marvin Maganoo]

There wasn't too much to catch up on. I am just not comfortable with anything that davsto has done or said all game. I know he's the medic claim, but I really just get an awful feeling from everything hes said all game. Hes flop flopped, made votes based on not looking stupid rather than actual reads, and ever since he has claimed medic he is just spewing complete crap in what I can only define as a "ha ha you can't lynch me" type of attitude, because he feels safe after the claim.

Jester I'm on the fence about, his self hammer comment is anti-town if he is town, and I don't see why he felt the need to jump to such a big conclusion. I understand that he doesn't want to have to defend himself constantly based on something that happened early game, but he put himself in that position. Why should town waste a lynch on him because he just doesn't want to have to defend himself?

RC is really showed up over the last few pages and I like what he has had to say. His attitude towards the game at first was less than desirable, but the stuff that he has posted recently I agree with. His opinion on monkey seems authentic and not a far stretch, and I must admit that until I read what he had to say about monkey I was giving monkey a town lean.

HCL for me is null. He hasn't done anything to make me read him one way or another right now. I like what he has to say in his posts, but I can't say any of his content is particularly amazing. (not that i have blown peoples minds either)

The last few posts by Monkey seem to be protecting davsto or distancing himself from davsto. Post 421 is tossing scum on RC for lynching a very questionable medic claim. Post 429 he says we if davsto is scum then RC must be the partner because he had his vote on davsto and wasn't scumhuting. Why would he scum hunt if he has his vote on the person he wants to lynch? Post 432 reads to me as monkey trying to make an excuse for his partner. Saying that davsto's actions make him look noobish. Finally Post 434 rubs me the wrong way. You are basically saying that you are town without outright saying you are town...its pointless comment.

With all of that said VOTE: davsto because there are just too many questions surrounding him, and its just going to be a huge mess if we let him move on to day two. If he is the medic and he is left alive after N1 without a save are we going to lynch him day 2 or give him another chance because he could still be the medic and potentially get a save N2? If we put an end to it D-1, we can go back to interactions after he flips to see who pushed the most or who benefited the most from the mislynch if he is medic or who protected and distanced the most if he is scum. I realize that I would look awful if he flips town based on my focus on him, but he isn't helping solve the game at all.

I would be willing to vote Monkey if you guys really really really want to give davsto a night, but I just don't think that is the best idea.

[Marvin Maganoo]

So anyone can claim day one and get a pass from you? No matter how the rest of their content reads? Since he has claimed has davsto done anything even remotely town oriented? If he was medic, wouldn't his objective at this point be to try to get as much information to town as he could because he should die N1?

I said that my feeling on his claim is bad. I don't believe it. I don't believe it for the reason I stated above and the reason in my previous post where I said he's got a "haha you can't lynch me" type attitude. I mentioned knowing it would look bad on me should he flip medic to show that my read and feeling in him is strong enough for me to take the risk of looking like an asshole should his claim come up as true. I'm not pushing for an information mislynch. I'm pushing for a lynch on a player who in my opinion is not acting in a town oriented manner despite claiming a power role and has done nothing to solve the game at all.

[Marvin Maganoo]

@stool My post 367 was right after I caught up and read that Davsto claimed Doctor. It was my initial reaction and I unvoted because that is what I usually do for doctor claims. However, as I stated in Post 441 and Post 443 davsto's actions even after his doc claim have remained anti-town at best. He has done nothing to help us figure out the game or assist us in gaining any more info despite the fact that he should be killed N1. He's exuding a confidence like he knows he's not going to die in the night (as though he's scum perhaps?) I don't like his effort in this game, I don't believe his claim, and I don't think we should give him a night so we can all start day two questioning why he didn't die and if he's the real doctor. I'm not sure why you chose a post almost 100 posts old to discredit me when I have more recent posts describing my exact thought process, but i guess that is the only way to protect your partner right?

I mean you basically say "look at the wagon you could form on monkey rather than davsto" despite null reading monkey. Why are you protecting davsto? What does he provide town besides a very unlikely night one save? Not unlikely because it's s crapshoot, but unlikely because he's scum. Who would you like to lynch if not davsto or monkey?

[Marvin Maganoo]

@ Stool

I haven't been fence sitting at all. I have disliked davsto all game. The only reason my vote came off of him initially was because of his medic claim, but it went back on him after giving it thought and evaluating more. If my transparency in my posts is going to make you read me as fence sitting and thus scum, then so be it, but I am going to give my thinking behind my votes and unvotes.

I am second on your list? why? Because I don't agree that we should spare the fake doctor claim just in case it is true? This is an agree to disagree situation. You believe we have more to gain by letting him live and making them decide between killing him N1 or letting him live and risking having their kill saved and I believe that he is mafia, so he is definitely coming out of N1 alive and he is just going to be a huge question mark day 2 and we will be having this exact same discussion.

Rather than convincing me not to vote davsto why don't you try to convince me why I should vote Jester since he's your top scum right now?

[Marvin Maganoo]

I would prefer to have more information before damning Davsto. I get that players are too lazy and tunnelvisioned to put up with him another day or two. A purely emtionaly decision imo. You're all getting demerits.

It would have been some consolation if anyone besides the current Jester wagon was trying to explore any other options. Even I, the great M. Saint, feels the town stagnating, and I'm not as optomistic about the wealth of information some of you see forthecoming from hanging Dav.

God save us.

I'm sorry, I just don't understand the jester wagon when davsto is so obviously fake and bad. It is the general consensus that davsto's claim is fake, that means he is either a) scum fake claiming to be doctor or b) lying town muddying the water for everyone else. Both should be lynched am I correct? So why wait another day to let him live as scum or muddy the water more if we can eliminate that issue right now? Is there an outside chance he is doctor? Yes, but his actions thus far in the game are anti-town even after his claim.

Can you or someone please explain to me why jester or anyone else is a better lynch right now?

[Marvin Maganoo]

I have stated time and time again that he has done nothing to help town at all. He has only muddied the water and made it more difficult to solve the game. Why is it my job to find a better lynch if I think davsto is the best lynch. That makes no sense. If you or anyone else wants my vote off of davsto and into someone else then I need to see an argument that compels me to do so.

Claiming shouldn't change his behavior, but claiming also shouldn't be a get out of jail free for being anti town.

My general consensus comment was saying basically saying everyone thinks it's fake. Whether it's fake as town or scum it still hurts town and should be dealt with.

I never said it seems bad therefore he's scum I have said (all day by your own words) that his play is anti town. His claim is only secondary to the fact that nothing he ever says or does helps us figure out the game. I also never said that everyone thinks he's suspicious therefore he's a good lynch. If I have been on him all day then how are my actions based on what everyone else thinks? I am going off my scum tells. His constant muddying the waters, spewing crap then backpedaling, and overall demeanor towards trying to solve the game is a scum tell for me. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong tells.

Could he be noobtown as opposed to noobscum? Sure. Does that make his anti town play any less appalling? No.

[Marvin Maganoo]

Claiming shouldn't change his behavior, but claiming also shouldn't be a get out of jail free for being anti town.

If his behavior shouldn't change why have you kept acting surprised that he's continued to be anti-town?

his actions thus far in the game are anti-town even after his claim

davsto's actions even after his doc claim have remained anti-town at best.

Your repeated words: "even after his [doc] claim". These posts seem to imply you did indeed expect a change in his behavior, counter to what you say now.

I have honestly never come across a pr claim that so blatantly makes a spectacle of themselves. I don't know what I was expecting from him, but it wasn't for him to keep posting the same way he had been...so upon thinking about it more, I guess I was expecting him to be more careful about his posts and help town more.

[Marvin Maganoo]

I guess my pro-town vs anti-town reads rub some people the wrong way. It is really the only way I know how to read D1 with no vote logic or interactions to go off of. I must admit, I have only played one game on this site and it was a noob game. Going from there the here is like going from tee-ball the the Major leagues. I will go back and read the game to see if I can come up with anything besides Pro town vs anti town arguments.

[Marvin Maganoo]

In Post 466 I mentioned how I though stool was protecting his partner davsto. I still believe that to be true.

VOTE: free stool sample

[Marvin Maganoo]

Yesterday was an extremely busy day at work. I'm just posting to avoid prod and to say I'll be able to read through and post more later tonight.

[Marvin Maganoo]

FSS you keep saying how you were on the davsto wagon early and you helped form it and how that somehow makes you less scummy. However you have a hard on for me when I was on Davsto almost day as well, and was on the wagon early on too. The only time I came off the wagon was when he claimed, but after reevaluating and seeing more from him I was convinced he was scum. The difference between us is you were sure he was lying (thus scum), but tried to get people off his wagon since he claimed doctor, while I thought he was lying, wanted him lynched, and stuck to it. The fact that you hammered because it was "an inevitable lynch" just looks to me like you are his partner and you saw there was no way you were going to end his wagon, so you hammered in hopes that it would earn you town cred.

[Marvin Maganoo]

So in your world I am scum and I bussed my partner right? I had my vote on him all day for the same "wimpy reason" why wouldn't I just use his doc claim to remove my vote from him and use the same "well I think his claim is bs too, but let's give him a night" reasoning to easily get my vote off of him? It is clear that no one is reading me more town given my reason for voting davsto. In fact more and more people got frustrated and annoyed by my anti-town read. What could I have possibly gained from bussing him there using the anti-town reasoning?

[Marvin Maganoo]

Sorry I was V/LA. I neglected to say anything in game, but I did tell the MOD. I honestly have no idea what the hell is going on in here. Half of the posts are arguments about another game. I am completely turned off by everything that has happened in this game since Titus has joined. I don't think Titus has done anything at all to progress the game and has only made personal attacks aimed at RC. I am still convinced that FSS is scum though, so my vote will remain on him.

I know that I have voted early both days and left my vote on those people all day, but I truly felt that Davsto was scum, and I feel that FSS is scum as well. I am not going to remove my vote from someone I think is scum just because I am getting shit for putting my vote on them early and leaving it there. I know my post aren't as eloquent and edgy as some of you guys, but I am doing my best to convey my reads as completely as possible.

[Marvin Maganoo]

I'm tunneling. I see what a lot of you are talking about in regards to my reads (or lack of reads) and I get why the way I am playing is so frustrating to some. I am going to read back through and try to be more open minded on my reads.

[Marvin Maganoo]

Sorry I had to replace out. My life got super crazy and I couldn't pay this enough attention. It got me lynched in another game too. Good game overall. I wish I could have participated more.