Mini 1708: Mafia Café [Game Over!]

[HenryCabotLodge]

I am deliberately not commenting on Johnny Farrar's hardness.
VOTE: monkey saint

[HenryCabotLodge]

UNVOTE: unvote

I freakin lol'd at this Monkey Johnny conversation.

VOTE: free stool sample

I don't want none of your crap.

ok so walk me through the thought process here. You see a page of stuff, and those are the two statements you decide to make.

In my head, you comment on myself and MoSa because I told you to. Am I wrong?

Then, you RVS jokevote poop. Why him in particular?

Not exactly. I commented on the hilarity of your discussion with Monkey because one, it puts it in my ISO for later and could, if one of you flips scum, be considered possible distancing to remind me about later, and two, gives me something I can go back to if I need a laugh.

As for that last question, I've gotta ask, is that a serious question? It's RANDOM vote stage, Johnny!

I get a super weird feeling about your post. The way I see it is that he asked you nonsense questions like " Why do you laugh at your conversation? Because I told you to react? " or " Why do you RV at the RVS ". You could have simply said " I don't know, I just found it funny " and moved on, but for me your post sounds like " an unnecessary defence ".

VOTE: A Simple Plan

I think A Simple Plan was in an impossible position here. If he wasn't elaborate with his post explanation you could have just as easily made the argument that either your questions were meant to be serious or that he was ignoring and is scummy. I don't think being overly explanatory is a scum trait, even if the post was a little bit strange.

lol, it's not my fault you ask easy questions

So I'm torn here. I want to twist these words into a reason to vote Simple, but some people haven't even posted yet so should I push for a lynch or just wait?

well that's up to you. Personally if I saw something that was pressure worthy i'd just go ahead and push. No point in waiting for the slow people

Seems scummy to me to want a push a fast lynch, especially this early in the day. How can anything be pressureworthy enough on page 3 when there are some people who haven't even posted yet?

Simple posts "hahaha also here's a poop joke"

I say "why did you say that"

The response is somehow everything in that post had a game relevant explanation. A relatively complicated answer to a simple question reads as nervous at best, lying at worst. I think both deserve a vote.

I think it could just as easily be playstyle. I agree that it might be nervousness, but I don't think that's necessarily voteworthy.

Clarification: when I say simple question I don't mean a small one. I mean a question that could reasonably answered with fairly little effort.

Your question, as you defined it, was "why did you say that?" I think it's a vague enough question to be read as either being nonserious or serious enough to warrant explanation even if it was in relation to a poop joke in RVS.

Maybe my definition of defensive is different, I haven't seen anything remotely close to being defensive, let alone overly defensive.

Plus defensive isn't even scummy, if anything its a town trait.

I agree with this.

I see nothing wrong with simple's posts and dav's reasons are weak

Explain why you voted me - there are four other people that voted before that second post, and I waited for said post before I started to become suspicious enough to vote - how are my reasons any weaker than those who voted before?

It's the fact that you voted after the 4 other people that pinged my radar. The others I took as pressure votes, yours put him unnecessarily at L-2 and looked like you were trying to slide your way onto the wagon with fake reasons.

(a) The extra vote does nothing to harm other than pressure, surely? If he gets to L-1 I'm gonna unvote for obvious reasons. An extra vote adds more pressure, and that can't be bad, surely?
(b) So what would you have said if I hadn't voted after stating considerable suspicion which escalated by his second post? Possibly that it was weird that I hadn't voted despite that and it felt like I was trying to get other people to vote on the wagon without having to do the work myself? This is leaning towards damned if I do, damned if I don't if you ask me.

My problem with your vote is that you said earlier that:

I'm gonna avoid jumping on because single post wagons hurt me in the soul

and also in the post before you voted A Simple Plan:

but jumping on a wagon which already has four people on it from a single post is overkill and jumping to conclusions, so I'm staying off that wagon for now.

So a single-post wagon is anathema to you, but a second post will put you over because it contains an italicization that you don't like? I don't see much in the way of overdefensiveness in A Simple Plan. The wagon on him is pretty fascile, I think he's right in questioning Jester the way he did.

See why would you unvote at l-1? That implies your vote wasn't serious yet you have taken time to explain your vote so well. You don't explain a vote like that if it isn't serious...

It's serious, yes, I believe he's scum, but fuck if it's ever a good idea for a lynch within the first 24 hours of the damn day.

You believe somebody is definite scum based off of three posts? If you really believe he is scum, why would you care about the quickness of the lynch? Why would you want to apply pressure when you admit you would take off your vote at L-1? Saying that invalidates any sense of pressure because it means your vote is actually not cast with ultimate goal of lynching him.

There's a lot of talk on Davsto and Jester's votes on A Simple Plan (Jester doesn't stick out to me, Davsto definitely does). What about ChaosOmega's vote? He doesn't even give an explanation for it. I'd like to see why he's on the A Simple Plan wagon.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Seems scummy to me to want a push a fast lynch, especially this early in the day. How can anything be pressureworthy enough on page 3 when there are some people who haven't even posted yet?

I never said I wanted to push a fast Lynch, not sure where you got that from.

"Push for a fast lynch" comes from the post you were quoting. I'm saying I find pushing a fast lynch (esp. on such a lack of evidence as is the case with A Simple Plan) scummy in general. I wasn't trying to imply you were pushing for a fast lynch.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Put simply, we have 13 IRL days before the deadline. Sure, a hammer vote can give us info too - and I'm tempted by keeping this vote on now after keeping an open mind about others' opinions - I don't want to throw away those 13 days just because I feel I have a scumread within 24 hours.

Do I have a scumread? Sure I do. But if you give me an option between A Simple Plan dying now or waiting 13 days and getting a load more info and then him dying, I think I know what I'd prefer.

That logic is sound. And Davsto has a decent point in post 90 -- the way Jake is framing it, Davsto

would

be in a damned-if-I-do/don't situation if he posted identically yet refrained from voting. However for me, that doesn't necessarily excuse him from the opportunism of his timing.

@Johnny, I appreciate the refusal to belabor. Seriously, since nervous/lying vs. bizarre is really a difference in reads of tone. Nothing empirical about it until we get more from ASP.

@HCL: Your long post is a bit stinky. When discussing Jake's comment to Johnny, about pushing to lynch whoever he thinks is scummiest, you say, "Seems scummy to me to want to push a fast lynch." Then, as you softly tiptoe to the border of this Davsto wagon, you say, "If you really believe he's scum, why would you care about the quickness of the lynch?" This is a direct contradiction in terms, and although it's definitely not scummy in and of itself to contradict yourself, I do think this instance is a little more suspect in my eyes, because you use both of those lines as means of casting suspicion on Jake and Davsto respectively. What's the answer, Henry? Push the lynch you think is most deserving, no matter the speed; or pressure a player only when it's safe to do so?

Your verbose little treatise misses the point that both of my objections stem from having definitive reads at an embryonic stage of the game. I explained my response to Jake in my last post. My issue with Davsto is that if you're going to say you believe someone is scum enough to cast a vote for a lynch, why would you a. care about hearing from other people that you scumread less than him/her and b. invalidate your vote by saying it's only for the purposes of pressure and not actually for the intended purpose of a lynch? The Davsto case I think highlights my point about early fast lynches being bad because now he's in a position he wouldn't have been in if he had just said "I'd like to hear more from A Simple Plan about this thing that annoyed me" rather than voting him based off of two posts.

@Henry: Problem is, you're missing a lot of key words in my text.

Single post, could be a single slip up. When he does it twice, and the second case is (imo) more severe, I feel it justifies a vote.

"believe" is the key word in the second - opinions can change. Just because I think he's scum now doesn't mean I'll still think that in four IRL days. Things can change, and some people haven't even said anything yet. While it's interesting to see what happens with A Simple Plan, and I can get reads from that, all of a sudden someone might barrel along being more scummy, and I'll probably start to question their actions and possibly even vote them.

Put simply, we have 13 IRL days before the deadline. Sure, a hammer vote can give us info too - and I'm tempted by keeping this vote on now after keeping an open mind about others' opinions - I don't want to throw away those 13 days just because I feel I have a scumread within 24 hours.

Do I have a scumread? Sure I do. But if you give me an option between A Simple Plan dying now or waiting 13 days and getting a load more info and then him dying, I think I know what I'd prefer.

I think I can understand your logic. I just disagree with it. Of course scumreads are going to be transient and hearing from other players is valuable especially when we have the time do so. I just think you were too cavalier with your vote. It may just boil down to playstyle, but I think if you cast a vote (apart from RVS) you should be willing to accept a lynch. Having a vote pattern that involves constant changes allows people to float from wagon to wagon to see which one gains traction and I think that's good cover for scum. I know you haven't changed your vote yet, but your equivocating about it looks like you might be setting up for it later. My big gripe, though, is how you can have such a confident read based off of three posts and keep sticking to it in the wake of a lot more substantial posting from other people.

[HenryCabotLodge]

The post I quoted didn't even say anything about pushing a fast Lynch either...

Here's the quote again

So I'm torn here. I want to twist these words into a reason to vote Simple, but some people haven't even posted yet so should I push for a lynch or just wait?

And I gave my opinion.

For the record the "lack of evidence" is a cop out. I caught RadiantCowbells on less and pushed and pushed for his Lynch as early as page 2/3.

If you think somebody is scum, there's nothing scummy about pushing their Lynch no matter how early in the game

I disagree. I think it's stupid to legitmately believe a player is scum and the best lynch option after making three posts. I'm impressed that you caught a guy in two posts but I'm not moved to change my opinion on the issue. I realize I also accidentally added the word "fast" to my quote so that's my mistake.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Henry and SimpleP, those are big walls of quotes you have there. Are you guys naming any suspects or is that all just to make yourselves look better?

I'm really not sure where you guys stand right now?

I was initially suspicious of Davsto for his seemingly opportunistic vote and subsequent equivocating, but I think he's being aboveboard and honestly in a difficult spot right now. Chaos Omega's vote with no explanation bothers me more than his at this point- esp. given the fact that now he's drawn attention to it in what seems like an attempt to frame it as trying to garner a reaction. I'm skeptical of it. Jake From State Farm (with his goddamn khakis) has also bothered me a bit despite our agreement on the illegitimacy of the accusations of overdefensiveness against A Simple Plan- mainly because he's trying to distance himself from his defense of A Simple Plan by portraying himself as an objective commentator on the issue.

why would you a. care about hearing from other people that you scumread less than him/her

This is a thing I'm quoting out of context so that you see how silly it looks.

You should know how silly it looks to quote things out of context.

My big gripe, though, is how you can have such a confident read based off of three posts and keep sticking to it in the wake of a lot more substantial posting from other people.

yoyoyo I'm doing this too. Any reason I'm less griped at?

Yes. Less equivocating. I have less trouble believing your vote was for the purpose of discussion rather than an opportunistic attempt to jump on a hot sexy wagon.

Henry and SimpleP, those are big walls of quotes you have there. Are you guys naming any suspects or is that all just to make yourselves look better?

I'm really not sure where you guys stand right now?

this is a good point imo, way too many words just looks like filler to me

Apologies, I will try to post less words.

@ASP, why are you acting so defensive?

I don't see him being defensive. why do you think he is? even if he was defensive, what does it matter? being defensive isn't scummy

His response looked overly elaborate to me, compared to such simple question. I'm not saying he's scummy yet, I'm just asking him a question. Why are you answering for him?

I didn't answer for him

Anyone else suspect that Jake may have been coaching ASP here, or at least seeding his answer for him?

Coaching is a big stretch. I'd definitely categorize it as a clear defense.

If simple flips scum, which I don't think he will if he gets lynched, his flip has no bearing on my alignment at all.

If I were coaching you I'd subtly be telling you to hush right now 'cuz this looks crazy

Agreed. I don't see what the issue is in admitting that you were providing a defense of someone you think is town in the face of a growing wagon on him. What's the beef, Jake?

[HenryCabotLodge]

Meh, that's your opinion. Reading through his ISO, as well as the amusing jokey fluff, there are some actually pretty good points and arguments being made by him, towards a lot of players in the game.

Methinks you're just trying to discredit his opinions because he's shown suspicion of you.

I agree with the first part of this. Both Johnny Farrar and Radiant Cowbells have mercurial posting styles (Monkey
Saint to a degree as well) but it's not fair to lump them together. Johnny posts substantive content, while RC is incomprehensible to the point of irritation. As befitting his hapless, khaki-clad namesake, Jake From State Farm seems like a wet blanket who doesn't respond well to the more facetious posters. I'm not discounting the possibility of an attempt by Jake to try and discredit Johnny, but I'm not willing to fully wed myself to that theory just yet.

I have played with him a couple of times but the only game I remember is the most recent one where he was scum so that's not useful.

If he was scum do you honestly think he would be acting irrational and anti-town? I used to go after people like that but it never turned out good so now I just try to ignore them. I will say the general accepted rule with RC is never let him live to mylo/lylo

Oh, well that's just

great,

isn't it. As far as I care, if he's gonna act scummy and anti-town even as town, he might as well be treated as scum.
Also, I just saw a game where he was town and fakeclaimed to force another townie into being lynched. I don't want a game where someone who does that is alive, for all of our sakes.

^ sums up my thoughts.

One of two possibilities:,
1) Cowbells is scum. Hence, we lynch.
2) Cowbells is a town player who is generally going to be unhelpful and scummy, screwing us over a lot by doing unhelpful things, not communicating with us, and seeming scummy. Hence, we should lynch.

One of these is true.
Both of these have the same conclusion.
Hence, my Cowbells vote stays.

Both of these posts are really bad. You're openly admitting to being alright with a hypothetical town lynch.

Sigh...well my town read on Davsto is gone. That's the same sort of shit case you used as scum in your last game. "Well, they're scum or bad town, so we should lynch them anyway." It doesn't look like scumhunting, it looks like you want a reason for being on a town lynch.

Do you scum read anyone who supports a policy lynch?

No. I've tried pushing policy lynches on players as town. My issue is fencesitting between a policy lynch and a scum read. It's harder to read into someone's motives for being on a lynch, and it gives scum more ways to weasel out of suspicion for being on the lynch.

I like this. Davsto got lambasted for his terrible vote on the ASP wagon and now he's jumped ship to Radiant Cowbells, who on the surface is an easy target. I think he's misjudged the town though and now he's just doubling down on his "anti-town" platitude rather than equivocate on the vote like he did last time so he doesn't look like an ass (maybe too late). For the record, Radiant Cowbell's playstyle is annoying but I don't think it's wise to lynch because of playstyle on day 1.

If he was scum do you honestly think he would be acting irrational and anti-town?

If, in regards to someone, you have to say "they're so anti-town they must be town", you should know that something is wrong and that player shouldn't be there to fuck up town.

If Cowbell is going to act in a way similar to scum, I say we treat him in a way similar to scum.

My issue is fencesitting between a policy lynch and a scum read.

Okay then, you provide a clear read for Cowbell's alignment.

Yeh.

Thought not.

Inability to determine scum or town means he's null.

You don't Lynch null reads, you investigate or vig kill them.

You Lynch scum reads.

That concludes mafia 101 (checks to make sure we aren't in the newbie forum)

But that's the thing. I don't read him as null.

I read him as scum, but with a side chance of being town who is just playing irrational and anti-town

and neither of these are worth keeping alive.

I'm not sure how Radiant Cowbells has tried to "fuck up town." If you don't like the guy's playstyle fine, don't try to cast him as some cartoonish anti-town villainous character. What's worse about this, though, is that you still admit the possibility that he is town and you keep your vote on.

I am one of the most open minded people. I am the one who spoke up when people accused somebody of being defensive and said that his actions don't really look defensive AND even if somehow I am wrong and he was being defensive, that isn't a reason to lynch somebody because town are defenisve also.

That's a very complicated way of saying you defended A Simple Plan. Still don't get why you can't just say you defended him because you thought he looked like town.

That said I'm comfortable with putting Davsto at L-1. I was initially sympathetic to his plight, but this latest show of irrationality (how ironic) makes him seem like an opportunistic voter who can't back his reads up. Scummiest player so far.VOTE: Davsto

[HenryCabotLodge]

I know walls of text are frowned upon by some people here. Too bad.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Don't really believe the Davsto doctor claim.

That's a very complicated way of saying you defended A Simple Plan. Still don't get why you can't just say you defended him because you thought he looked like town.

There was.never a question about me defending him, I was accused of answering for him which is completely different.

By saying I disagree with the reasons for him, that's clearly me defending him. I don't think I ever denied that, if I did it was not intentional cause I was defending him

It looked like you didn't want it characterized as defending by these posts:

If simple flips scum, which I don't think he will if he gets lynched, his flip has no bearing on my alignment at all.

If I were coaching you I'd subtly be telling you to hush right now 'cuz this looks crazy

It actually doesn't. Me accurately saying a player wasn't being defensive has no bearing at all on my relationship with said player. I just stated facts and the only people who would try to suggest that we are linked somehow would only come from scum pushing an agenda. Town using logic would not(or should not) be so narrow minded. Anyone who's town and that narrow minded, well I can't say my thoughts about that cause I'm trying to be nice and not insult people anymore.

and

How generous, Jake. You defending someone totally has baring on whether or not I think you're scum upon their flip, though. Whether or not that's what you're doing, that's what it looks like.

p-edit: I dunno where that question's going.

Stating fact isn't really defending anyone, its stating fact.

If its considerd defending than its unintentional.

Simple wasn't being defensive, he answered the question he was asked and the part he was supposedly "defensive" about was when he was asked why he chose a person for their random vote. Why the hell would anyone get defensive over that? if somebody asked me a stupid question, my response would be with disgust/sarcasm/or something not particularly nice.

I read his all capitalizing the word random as his way of showing disgust/frustration with being asked a stupid question. His reaction was justified and certainly wasn't defensive. The question should have never been asked in the first place IMO.

Boldface was added to highlight the direct contradiction between your most recent one and the one I quoted.

[HenryCabotLodge]

I agree with the consensus on Jester's horrible vote on Davsto (being the rationale myself, among others, used for voting Davsto in the first place). It's scummy and suddenly makes his A Simple Plan vote earlier in the day (which didn't bother me at the time) look a lot worse. I'm considering changing my vote to him.

I can't get over Davsto though. I'm disinclined to believe his doctor claim because all he has done today is put himself in risky and inadvisable situations. I don't know why a town power role would post as prominently and be as combative as he was right off the bat. Moreover, a power role claim is the only thing would have saved him at that point; I don't think anyone would have been moved by a vanilla townie claim.

Also, Jake (from the Planet State Farm)- now that we've established you defended A Simple Plan earlier today I'm going to consider that an association.

What I have confusion on is everything you are saying right now davsto:

You are currently voting on Monkey for....reasons?.....But you agree with Monkey's vote on Jester. You don't find anything that bad with Jester (yet you agree with Monkey's vote on him), but the reason you are not voting is because you would feel stupid?

I need to move on from this, because you are not the lynch today.

I literally can't even right now.

This is where I also am with Davsto right now. Monkey Saint vote from him makes no sense to me.

Here we go, found it, about halfway down Page 1, http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p7053256

When looking for stuff like this, I believe you get a more accurate result by picking a random one from the first page.

NOTE:

I just noticed whilst looking for it again that the game hasn't actually ended. However, since my comment about it wasn't substantive - I merely stated

what

happened in that game, I don't think it is a violation of any rules.

Is this the same Davsto who said:

The problem with Chaos' meta read is he is supposedly getting a town read from me despite my only completed game being one within which I was scum.

Basically, it's easy to twist that to what

you

want to read, and thus any data got from my meta, as it stands, should be disregarded, in my opinion.

and

Now supposedly Dav has scum meta for this behavior, once o verify that it will just be another thing to use to show he's scum

Okay, now also find an example of me using this logic as town.

You can't.

Because I haven't got a complete game of me as town.

It's the same reason that ChaosOmega's "he reads differently" comment was disregarded - without both a town meta and a scum meta to compare, meta reads mean fuckall.

In fact, I don't believe meta reads in the slightest anyway.

Don't you think that there's a chance that Cowbell, if scum, is purposefully playing different to his meta of games with you to make you think this?

?(Boldface added by me)

Davsto seems to be putting a lot of stock in Radiant Cowbells' meta. For one thing, he thinks meta reads are stupid and, further, that his own meta doesn't matter. What makes Radiant Cowbells different?

Pedit: I see Davsto took his vote off Monkey Saint and put it on Jester. Monkey Saint vote was still incomprehensible to me.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Also, Jake (from the Planet State Farm)- now that we've established you defended A Simple Plan earlier today I'm going to consider that an association.

Ok?

Would be pretty stupid to defend a scum buddy like that if we were scum together but you are entitled to your opinions, no matter how wrong they are

Thank you for reminding me I'm an entitled to an opinion.

I don't mean "association" as an exclusively bad thing. In fact, I thought your defending ASP was pretty townie and i'm viewing you as such for the time being. Your defense of ASP in itself wasn't the thing that made me want to make an issue out of the exchange, it was that you were reluctant to admit it.

[HenryCabotLodge]

You two should make out

YOU should make out

[HenryCabotLodge]

I'm still on davsto, but what makes Jester's "i'm gonna selfhammer if you guys keep being mean to me" gambit more legit than davsto's doctor claim?

[HenryCabotLodge]

Here- catching up.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Yea please hold off until I can offer my brilliant analysis. I'm partly through my read but right now I'm at work phoneposting so unfortunately I have to be brief. But yea, no hammers.

[HenryCabotLodge]

So I still haven't seen a good reason from anyone for why Jester's selfhammer threat is more legitimate/less scummy than Davsto's doctor claim. Radiant Cowbells mentioned that it seemed like a genuine expression of emotion, but aren't emotional appeals frowned upon in this game? A precedent has been set now where anyone with pressure on them can say "Well, I'm tired of this- if someone puts me at L-1 I'm gonna hammer and I'm town" like a sitcom-level petulant teenager. Jester's vote on Davsto was terrible, he deserved to be called out on it. A lot of you from what I remember have unresolved issues from his vote on the A Simple Plan wagon earlier in the day as well. That's two hot sexy wagons he's jumped on that have drawn a notable amount of suspicion. Are we letting him off the hook too easily?

I can understand Monkey Saint's objections to the Davsto lynch, but I think he's discounting the possibility of Davsto lying far too much. I don't think he's scummy though, just a nervous little chimp. He mentions in post 487 that he thinks the Davsto case is based on emotion. I think that's a misrepresentation. Davsto's play shows a lot of inconsistency and backpedaling. Perhaps some people are tunneling Davsto (I'm willing to grant that), but I still think he's the best lynch right now.

FSS had a good point about the heat on Monkey Saint (pray for us) and people casting suspicion on him but not voting, but he lost some of his zest when he started misrepresenting quotes. I'm not a fan of that deception to say the least. Why ruin a perfectly good point by being a sneaky pete? It pings on my radar, though. I can see how it would be a subtle way to try and avert the town's attention away from the increasingly imminent Davsto lynch. Now what interest would FSS have in that? He hasn't openly protested the same way Monkey Saint has. He seems to want to maintain his distance from the good doctor. Interesting.

I found the Marvin Manganoo and HavingFitz posts hopping on the spicy hot Davsto wagon bland and derivative. Neither really added anything new to the discussion and kind of just echoed previously expressed sentiments against Disgraced Doctor Davsto. To me, they gave off the impression of just going with the flow. I understand there was a lot to catch up on and Davsto has provided us with ample reason to string him up, but I was hoping for a little more pizzazz.

Jake From State Farm's vote on HavingFitz makes no sense at this point in the game. Is it an attempt at humor? Please take the game more seriously, Jake, like the rest of us are.

So, in concluding, I'm keeping my vote on Davsto but I could be swayed to jump ship to Jester or possibly even FSS. Davsto is still the best lynch for the time being, though.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Agreed, it's a strange qualification for a vote. Almost seems like they're trying to leave room open for an unvote at a later time should the wagon begin to lose steam.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Jake From State Farm's vote on HavingFitz makes no sense at this point in the game. Is it an attempt at humor? Please take the game more seriously, Jake, like the rest of us are.

Why do you think it's an attempt at humor when I clearly explained my reason for my vote and there was nothing humorous about my reasons

I actually did somehow miss that post, my mistake. I found HavingFitz's catch up underwhelming as well, but I thought your reason about him not catching up quick enough for you was dubious at best.

Also, is Radiant Cowbells' irrational anger and condescension swaying you? It should.

[HenryCabotLodge]

I'm sorry, I just don't understand the jester wagon when davsto is so obviously fake and bad. It is the general consensus that davsto's claim is fake, that means he is either a) scum fake claiming to be doctor or b) lying town muddying the water for everyone else. Both should be lynched am I correct? So why wait another day to let him live as scum or muddy the water more if we can eliminate that issue right now? Is there an outside chance he is doctor? Yes, but his actions thus far in the game are anti-town even after his claim.

Can you or someone please explain to me why jester or anyone else is a better lynch right now?

VOTE: Marvin Maganoo It was your job to find a better lynch, not the town to tell you your options. You sat on Davsto all day. Your vote on RC didn't even last one post.

Why would claiming change someone's behavior, especially a new player?

Why does a general consensus matter? If anything I'm more convinced someone is scum when they are hard to lynch, yet we've had a quorum to lynch davsto all day.

You're using a lot of indirect arguments. The claim seems bad, therefore that player is lying scum; Everyone think he's suspicious, therefore he's a good lynch. What about just being confident in scumtells? You don't seem confident that davsto is newbscum more than newbtown? Will you at least admit to that?

You have a point about Marvin's reliance on accepting town consensus as a good scumhunting method and I agree his vote and subsequent posts leave a lot to be desired. I don't think he warrants a vote, though, and I get the impression you'll lynch almost anybody who isn't named davsto.

[HenryCabotLodge]

swaying me about what? my stance on dav not getting lynched? no as much as I think he is probably scum, I know i am not always right and the smart play is to never lynch a claimed PR day 1. Nobody is going to convince me otherwise so it's pointless to even try.

That was supposed to be a clevet comment about how radiant cowbells thinks browbeating and insulting people into agreeing with him is a good strategy.

[HenryCabotLodge]

I don't think he warrants a vote, though,

You seem to see a lot of suspicious things and not vote them. I've criticized the scarcity of your vote before.

and I get the impression you'll lynch almost anybody who isn't named davsto.

You must be a master of interpretation, because I said earlier I don't want to lynch him today.

My vote is on davsto (don't understand the "scarcity" bit) and I advocate his lynch, but i'm not going to stop looking at other people.

And my second part was poorly worded. What I meant was your davsto defense is starting to look unreasonable and your subsequent pursuits of other players look shoddy and flimsy.

[HenryCabotLodge]

'm not going to stop looking at other people.

Which other people you looking at? Why are you looking at them?

Mostly the people I singled out in 491.

Jester for his bad vote and subsequent threat to selfhammer which has seemingly gotten him off the hook with a lot of people. He's also been lurking since then (I thought maybe he was V/LA but the activity overview doesn't indicate that).

FSS for the fact that he says he scumreads Davsto but somehow doesn't want to lynch him. I don't find his proposed plan about letting Davsto live through the day to be a convincing alternative to a lynch, seems like it would only raise more uncertainties and would just be a way to buy time for Davsto. I also did not like that he used outdated and out-of-context quotes to support his arguments. He's also been very quiet as of late. Two thumbs down.

I was also not a fan of Marvin Manganoo and HavingFitz's posts voting Davsto. Added nothing really new to the conversation. Marvin is expanding on his vote now, but I'm having reservations about the fact that he keeps bringing up the possibility that Davsto may be town- I don't like qualifying votes like that. He's also one of those guys that gets bogged down in "anti-town vs. pro-town" rhetoric when making a case on someone and I find that McCarthyist and hollow.

[HenryCabotLodge]

On the real though, do you think his continued existence is good for town?

I don't think him surviving today is a problem for the town in any way.

My vote is on davsto (don't understand the "scarcity" bit) and I advocate his lynch, but i'm not going to stop looking at other people.

You've sat on that davsto wagon all day, that doesn't read like looking at other people. Sure you've stated an opinion or two. Like this one:

You have a point about Marvin's reliance on accepting town consensus as a good scumhunting method and I agree his vote and subsequent posts leave a lot to be desired. I don't think he warrants a vote, though

You admit I have a point about why I find him suspicious, yet you're awfully quick to undermine my accusation by calling it not voteworthy. Why defend Marvin? Wouldn't you prefer to see how he responds rather than alter his behavior by weighing in with your opinion? What good are you really doing by backing him up here and later calling my vote flimsy? If you're not making a case on me, why rain on my efforts?

My "defense" of Marvin amounts to not thinking he's voteworthy at this time. I'm looking at him and everybody else through the prism of my Davsto vote (i.e. is this person scummier than Davsto?). The reason I submitted my opinion of him and your vote on him is to try to get to the bottom of why you want to keep Davsto alive and why you insist on going after these other players who have done significantly less in the way of scumminess than Davsto has. I'd love to bring you aboard the Davsto train so I'm trying to work with you here, not necessarily "rain on" you.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Does the fact that Stool hammered Davsto mean nothing? What makes Stool a better lynch than Monkey Saint who spent most of his time trying to dissuade everyone from the Davsto lynch?

[HenryCabotLodge]

rip Jake. Was looking forward to building in this drinking game.

Weird pick, Jake. Not sure why scum did it.

We'll see how Bells reacts once he gets here but I don't see the 'hard bussing from the beginning' from someone with such a big ego.

Stool votes are dope, I'll probably hop on later at a moment that makes people question my motivations, but for right now I'm content to try to read people as they get back

Can I question your motives now? You similarly stayed off the Davsto wagon while making a vague statement about voting him later. You and FSS seem to have taken the same approach towards the Davsto question, the differences being that FSS painstakingly, if unconvincingly, tried to win people over to his plan and dropped the hammer (something you said you would do in post 430. What makes Stool worse than you?

Does the fact that Stool hammered Davsto mean nothing? What makes Stool a better lynch than Monkey Saint who spent most of his time trying to dissuade everyone from the Davsto lynch?

I still don't get why anyone but the noobest scum would bother 'protecting' davsto. If someone who didn't vote him was scum they probably didn't do much for him, considering the scrutiny he was under.

Much more likely he was heavily bussed, hence the complete focus on davsto day one:

VOTE: RadiantCowbells He acted all day like he knew Dav was scum. I think he might not have been lying. I think he wanted Davsto dead just so his incompetent partner wouldn't accidently make any connections to him Day 2.

Also I think his 'scumhunting' day 1 is garbage. It looks to me like he did nothing but try to get Dav lynched, with little concern for actually figuring anything out.

There were definitely a lot of wishy-washy people on the dav wagon (and I suspected them at the time), but RC's overconfidence is what sticks out now that that wagon was on confirmed scum.

A lot of this seems contrived. First, how can his scumhunting be garbage if he successfully identified scum? You seem to think his confidence in Davsto being scum means he had some other knowledge the rest of the town didn't have. What about the other people who were convinced Davsto was scum (myself included)? You say a lot of the votes were wishy-washy but I don't see it. Second, RC was on the Davsto wagon before it became the hottest thing in town. There was arguably just as much heat on Jester before, and at times, during the Davsto wagon that scum could attach themselves pretty easily to it. Davsto may have played poorly, but I have a hard time believing that his partner would be bussing him at such a nascent stage especially when there were other viable options.

I think people are too wedded to the bussing thing. We had two lurkers who stayed off the Davsto wagon (TheEMC and A Simple Plan). Why aren't we considering them? Look at the nightkill as well. Jake was one of the most prominent people not voting Davsto. I think it's likely he was killed because he was vocally against the Davsto wagon. As people who weren't on the Davsto wagon get eliminated, it becomes easier to assume that scum were on the wagon. I think it's just as possible that scum were hiding somewhere off of it.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Oh no, I've upset the little turd in a hood.

With two days left on the deadline, I just carried out what was clearly inevitable, since none of you losers were going to give the doc claim a day. I was clearly, obviously, blatantly, unabashedly scum reading Davsto for the duration of the day, but AS A MATTER OF POLICY I thought it best to hold off on lynching him. Eventually there came a point when there was no longer any reason to believe you'd all come around to my side. You & Marvin love to pretend I didn't want Davsto lynched as much as the next guy, & you're obviously a little cranky since I sliced & diced you real good in that last post, so maybe it's best if you just relax a little. I'm pretty sure you're town, and you're giving Marvin material.

Policy shouldn't have superseded your scumread and your attempts to convince the town to let Davsto live through the day can easily be read as buying time for your scumpartner. That said, I don't think your vote was the worst one on the Davsto wagon. I made a blunder in my last post rebutting Monkey Saint when I said I didn't find the votes on Davsto wishy-washy. Even at the time they were made, the Marvin and havingfitz votes had little in the way of new analysis and read to me like an attempt to coast on a strong wagon (and I said so at the time). In light of Jake's death and the fact that he was voting havingfitz, I've walked back my skepticism of the possibility that Davsto was bussed. Now havingfitz comes into day 2 with a vote on FSS, the new hottest wagon in town, with no explanation. Maybe havingfitz thinks he's found another wagon he can sit on. VOTE: havingfitz

Can I question your motives now? You similarly stayed off the Davsto wagon while making a vague statement about voting him later. You and FSS seem to have taken the same approach towards the Davsto question, the differences being that FSS painstakingly, if unconvincingly, tried to win people over to his plan and dropped the hammer (something you said you would do in post 430. What makes Stool worse than you?

Not much I guess. He just seems like he's lying to me. The whole "naw guys he's definitely probably lying i agree, but let's just talk about something else." thing he had going on stayed all the way to the end, whereas i was decently convinced Davsto lynch was gonna be the way the day ended. My big thing was i wanted the latecomers to catch up before the day ended.

Also I'd like to comment that garbage scum hunting finds scum sometimes. It's called luck.

You were resigned to the Davsto lynch but really made no strong indication of being for or against it. I guess your lack of direct opposition to it would indicate support, but only in the most diffident way. I can see what you're saying about waiting for the latecomers though.

[HenryCabotLodge]

the dick measuring in this game is real

All too real and tragic.

Keeping my vote on havingfitz. The Stool wagon seems like a red herring to me. I don't like how quickly it's moved forward and how certain posters (i.e. fitz) are displaying a similar amount of certitude that was seen with the Davsto wagon. fitz had a weak vote post for that wagon, but he's changed his tone on this one to a more aggressive overconfident style that pushed the Davsto wagon through yesterday.

I eagerly await contributions from Jester (maybe?) and A Simple Plan, provided of course they don't involve the size of phalluses.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Prodded and thoroughly chastised.

I admittedly lost a lot of interest when this became about personal animus rather than scumhunting when Titus replaced in. The personal nature of the argument made me think it was just dick-measuring on both parts, but after some thought Titus looks worse coming out of it as the replacement. The only interest in this game Titus seems to take is to further a personal vendetta against Radiant Cowbells. Radiant Cowbells plays like a dick to be sure, but at least take some time to review the game. This post rang true to me:

I mean, if anyone wants to read 184 for their own and verify that my gameplay was literally anything about passive and involved me cursing people out and starting D2 with a speedvote on my partner, then fakeclaiming vanilla cop trying to get one of the townies lynched, they are free to do so.

I am unconvinced that this is Titus's recollection and think she's just scum trying to start a fight to distract people.

This focus on meta is really annoying. It does nothing to further the game for people like myself (and I think there's a lot of us) who aren't intimately familiar with the playstyles of other people on this site. Meta is easily manipulated, and in a case like this where people are unlikely to go through dozens of pages of gameplay just to detect an obscure pattern I think it's stupid to even bring it up. All this does is muddy the waters for the sake of a personal grudge- and that's the best case scenario. Titus looks bad.

Fitz, how set are you on this Stool Sample wagon?

Stool or Monkey. Preferably stool.

Won't do stool.

It's a town lynch due to RC's shitty vote.

RC was asking me. I didn't ask you

It's not a town lynch because of RC's vote. RC's vote on Stool has no bearing on my vote on Stool and I suspect that is the same case for others on the Stool wagon.

I'm annoyed that you replaced into this game and are looking to fcuk it up like my last game you replaced into. You should put more effort into your games and not make things so personal.

I read everyone on Stool's wagon as town.
I suspect Monkey in addition to Stool. You can join Monkey as a suspect given you replaced a non-entity and have done nothing resembling town since joining.

ASP (who I am leaning town on after yesterday's lynch) or The_worthless & needs to replace out or just get mod-replaced_Jester please hammer Stool.

Every single person on the Stool wagon is town? Everybody? Based on what criteria- the fact that they've voted the same as you? Your play is lazy and much like yesterday you've attached yourself to the hottest wagon with little explanation. Only difference is that you're trying to bully other people into today's wagon.

VOTE: MarvinMaganoo

His play both days has been the path of least resistance. He never sticks his neck out and just halfheartedly parrots others.

He made a vote in his first post both days and rode them straight to lynch. I don't see any genuine efforts to find scum.

You criticized me for not casting a vote right away, now your attacking Marvin for making a vote right away. Surely you can see the discrepancy. What makes us different? We were both on the Davsto wagon. Granted, Marvin's vote post was weak but he's made an effort to clarify (unlike Fitz). I'm just trying to understand this vote because it doesn't make much sense to me and it feels like your (non-Davsto!) vote yesterday towards the end which read like a feeble attempt to steer the town's attention in another direction.

For the sake of clarity, I'll say there's plenty of reason to vote FSS. I would vote him myself if I wasn't irked at how smoothly the wagon has advanced and how certain voters (i.e. fitz) have managed to skate by unmolested.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Btw let me also say that ChaosOmega looks super town by really taking it to FSS. Gives legitimacy to the wagon. I think a lot of players are trying to coast by on his work though.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Yea, RC, I guess we're in agreement on most levels. I think meta is bullshit in general unless there's an empirically provable pattern from a player as scum/town- which almost never happens. It's a needless distraction. fitz bothers me moreso at this point, though, so I'm keeping my vote there.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Cabot is the townbeard! Yippie.

Lynx, deadline is in 5 days. WTF is deadline approaching shit.

I like townbeard. Deadline "shit" not as much. 5 days is short for this particular game. Esp. if ASP posts in a few days about his inability to post. You seem upset about something.

Also, the vendetta was sorta one way, IE me vs Titus. I don't recall her being nearly this agitated in the actual game.

I further don't believe she would have replaced in under the standard assumption that we'd be playing together if this was how she was planning to treat the game.

Plus, the "meta" she's using is flat out wrong and there's no real way she could get that interpretation. My scum game in her experience was actually extremely aggressive involving me pushing for a MattP lynch, going so far as to fakeclaim a PR to try to get the VT lynched. She's being flat out dishonest and not in a way that any sort of difference of viewpoint could muster, and it's especially damning considering that yesterday I was extremely aggressive pushing a lynch on Davsto and she could instead have said that I was doing exactly what I did in my previous game, ie bus my partner D1, but she didn't, probably because she thought that would be less compelling to people who weren't going to check my meta anyway.

If Titus scumread me, this is not how she'd go about dealing with it.

And yeah, Chaos has been pretty obvtown this whole game.

You went for a bunch of easy lynches already suggested by others. If people can't see you just told them what they wanted to hear, then that's their problem. Tools are tools, not actual aggression or passiveness. Whether you bus or not, you play it safe with big words and flashy gambits to look aggressive.

We can have this fight again and again, but you will always act like you have to be the queen bee or you're scum. Either one is shit for the game.

"Big words" and "flashy gambits" sound like what a moron would call playing the game well. You reveal an irreconcilable bitterness at the end of the post that is troubling to say the least. What you've said is that everything Radiant Cowbells does is scummy to you. You've disregarded every consideration for alignment and game nuance because you don't like Radiant Cowbells. Radiant Cowbells is annoying but this is childish at best, scummy at worst. Btw, your "either one is shit for the game" comment reeks of the "bad town is equally as bad as scum" sentiment that got Davsto lynched on day 1. Only difference is that this isn't day 1 and you've had ample time to examine a scumlynch wagon that RC was the most vocal member of.

VOTE: Titus

[HenryCabotLodge]

Need to reconsider the HCL thing actually, since -- my mistake -- he voted Titus, not fitz.

Your mistake indeed!

I'm no mystic, but I could see myself bringing my vote back to fitz in the future. I'm especially anxious to see his reaction to your claim. We'll see if your melodramatic little ballad moves him to change his own "tune."

[HenryCabotLodge]

I

Henry

Thought you were coasting a bit early on Day 1. On the other hand, I feel you rebounded nicely with your handling of Davsto. Your original placement of the

vote and subsequent lock in after the claim all work in your favor for me. Further, your Day 2 play has been rational and level-headed. Do you

really think there is enough content from Titus so far to warrant a vote though? Especially if she hasn't even read the game?

I think that Titus not reading the game works even more against her. If you read her tract of post on Titus, she seriously says that she scumreads RC based solely on the fact that he's RC. It's lazy and destructive and I think it's conceivable that she's banking on being able to coerce more inexperienced players to jumping on to the wagon.

OK...catching up on some posts in reverse order. If I have left anything
un-responded to ask again.

HCL 705 comments:

- Every single person on the Stool wagon is town? Everybody? Based on
what criteria - the fact they have voted the same as you?

See my D1 reads Mr Pretentious. I was reading them all as town before they were all on the stool wagon.

- Your play is lazy and much like yesterday you've attached yourself to
the hottest wagon with little explanation

Define lazy? Without taking up half a page. I was on the right wagon D1.

- you're trying to bully other people into today's wagon.

By repeatedly asking people to vote who I suspect? That's bullying? I disagree. Hyperbole much?

- For the sake of clarity I'll say there is plenty of reason to vote FSS.
I would vote him myself if I wasn't irked at how smoothly the wagon has
advanced and how certain voters (i.e. fitz) have managed to skate by
unmolested.

This makes no sense given my preclaim support of the Freestool wagon.

Please call me Prententious, Mr. Pretentious was my father! I'll go through this point by point.

D1 reads

- I was unable to find a post from you on day 1 where you outline all of your reads. I did find two posts where you expand on where you stand with certain players (533 and 552. The only person I see you go after with some real substance is Jake From State Farm who is dead now. You tell both Monkey Saint and FSS that you would support their lynch as "an alternative to Davsto" based on sentiments already articulated by other players but that's the furthest it goes. Seems to me like a poor attempt to appear like you have reads on players other than Davsto who was at that point the consensus lynch.

Defining Lazy

- In order to define lazy, we must first understand lazy. We must analyze lazy and what makes it so ...lazy. Lazy is you voted Davsto after 1 paragraph on your 4th post of the game and sat there while only presenting superficial suspicions. Your first post of today was a vote on FSS (conveniently one of two you would have supported as the alternate lynch to Davsto on day 1 but did nothing about) and you've spent the majority of the day making posts that literally end with "vote stool" until it became clear stool wouldn't flush down the toilet so easily.

"Hyperbole much?

- Well, Chandler, I addressed a lot of my issue with this in my last post. You seem to be trying to silence other posters's legitmate non-stool leads with your "vote stool" strategy. It's certainly not scummy to try to win other people over to voting your top scum suspect, but you're doing it in a very scummy way.

Preclaim support of stool wagon

- In all honesty, I find this irrelevant. Stool got heat all yesterday for his convoluted Davsto defense. You even hopped on the Stool heat, albeit in a rather passive way. You were setting up going after Stool today, and this is only confirmed by your first-post vote of him with no explanation. Further, it makes sense that you would disbelieve a Stool town power role claim today given the fact that Davsto's doctor claim didn't do him any favors.

You criticized me for not casting a vote right away, now your attacking Marvin for making a vote right away. Surely you can see the discrepancy. What makes us different? We were both on the Davsto wagon. Granted, Marvin's vote post was weak but he's made an effort to clarify (unlike Fitz).

Neither of you were using your vote to find scum, you just decided who was most suspicious that day and lynched them. Marvin is doing it again today.

You forget that my post voting Davsto directly preceded his doctor claim. Also, how is it not scumhunting to vote the player you find most suspcious???

Basically Bells has 1. Lied about being Vig 2. Lied about being in a neighborhood and 3. Lied about a cop guilty and I'm just sort of quietly freaking out over here wondering why no one seems more upset about this

1. I've seen people fake a day vig before on players once or twice. Can't recall if they were in jest or to get a reaction. Either way I do not recall it was ever scum doing it. 2. Not the best play...especially if the person you are claiming to be in a neighborhood with has no clue what you are talking about. 3. He was referring to me and was wrong. Like I said earlier...I can see why he would think I had got some sort of info on FSS.

I was expecting you to catch up and say something about Bells.

I think he is town.

========================

VOTE: FSS

I do not like or believe his claim. If he answers my questions and I believe him I will consider moving my vote but not likely.

So you were pro-lynching FSS as far back as day 1, but you're qualifying you're vote on him? You seem like you're setting up for a discreet vote switch later on. If you were so convinced of his scumminess I'd think you would have planted your vote there without the silly explanation about "answering you qeustions." Your votes have been exclusively opportunistic. I'm pissed I got drawn into that stupid Titus/RC feud and took my vote off of you.

VOTE: havingfitz

[HenryCabotLodge]

I do not get why he would waste his 1 track on someone he was not suspicious of (iirc). Why not track Jester who you were suspect of right up to the end of D1? I think Johnny was getting a fairly consistent read as town on D1 so why risk your lone track on someone who stood a good chance to be the nk. Your claims and actions make little sense.

This was the exact point I was going to make.

What happened to:

Your early exchanges with Davos using his meta seems genuine. The RC vote by Davos was another terrible attempt to look town. You were pretty stalwart throughout Day 1 when the wagon was getting shaky and easy to leave. Like the Day 2 barrage against Stool as well. Do you not buy this claim either though?

This question is worded a little weirdly to me. "Do you not buy this claim either?" is a leading question insinuating that I've already chosen to be against the claim. While that might be the case, I hadn't posted after his claim. Lynx, is English your main language?

As for stool's claim, I'd like him to fullclaim. Not 100% on how I feel of the veracity of the claim until then, but it's better than Davsto's by default.

I can see a track on Johnny making sense from both alignments. If you're town-tracker and worried he's fooling everyone, you might believe he feels safe to perform the kill since he's not suspected. If you're scum-tracker, you can go PR hunting elsewhere and check to see if the person who is widely town-read has an ability or not.

Why does he not make sense as a town tracker to you anymore?

[HenryCabotLodge]

Rationale for tracking me?

I can see a track on Johnny making sense from both alignments. If you're town-tracker and worried he's fooling everyone, you might believe he feels safe to perform the kill since he's not suspected.

The explanation Chaos offered is more or less correct. I'd also considered that alternatively, you might be another town PR, and if that was the case, it'd be nice to have the opportunity to vouch for that. I hadn't planned to use my one shot so early in the game, but it's not like I couldn't foresee the ire coming my way when I cast that frustrated hammer vote. This is actually the first time I've ever been a PR, so I wasn't smart about toning down the normal combativeness of my play to protect the role so it could be optimized to do the most good for town.

I would think that it's pretty obvious that I'm not in a hood and that I was just trying to cover for Fitz.

And no, it's clearly not coincidence that I did it at L-1 following Stool claiming an investigative and Farrar not denying the investigation.

I say we immediately lynch any and all members of my neighbourhood because neighbourhood = scum.

VOTE: Titus

She's my neighbour.

This post seems really scummy to me. What bothers me is that RC says "it's clearly not a coincidence that I did it [i.e. the fitz cop neighbor thing] at L-1..." which implies the vote count was a deliberate point of consideration for RC's gambit. However, I wasn't at L-1, I was at L-2 when this happened because Johnny had already unvoted me. Granted Titus got the vote count wrong in the post RC is replying to, but that makes it worse right? If the vote count had really mattered so much to RC, he would have been able to identify Titus's mistake. Clearly this has more to do with mudslinging against Titus than justifying that gambit.

Basically Bells has 1. Lied about being Vig 2. Lied about being in a neighborhood and 3. Lied about a cop guilty and I'm just sort of quietly freaking out over here wondering why no one seems more upset about this

Cause RC just keeps us in this perpetual state of WIFOM vertigo, and it becomes really hard to accuse him of being scummy when he can continually fall back on the excuse that all of his lies are so obviously and deliberately lies that scum wouldn't be so reckless.

...although I'm writing this as I go through the thread, and I now see that he's convinced you it all makes sense. THIS IS THE PROBLEM, MAN. There

is

an explanation, but it's not greatly more convincing than its total opposite.

#776 Stool said it best.

The logical conclusion of this train of thought is that RC bussed Davsto as his scumpartner from a very nascent stage. Do you really think that that's believable? I can sort of predict Titus' answer but I'm more interested in what FSS makes of it. I'd also ask the same question of Johnny Farrar.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Like, he kept ending posts with just vote stool.

That reads like cop claim to me.

That's as absurd as saying I provoked you when you voted me the minute I subbed in and basically lied about the end of that game.

You voted me in fucking lylo as town, knowing I was town.

You should write an Alanis Morisette-style song about this incident.

[HenryCabotLodge]

HCL, that question is already answered.

I know it's anwered from you (based only on the fact that you think RC is scum no matter what), but I'd like to see an answer from Johnny and FSS. Because if that's true, then there's no reason why they both shouldn't be voting RC right now.

[HenryCabotLodge]

RC actually said so herself.

Please point out where RC said he was scum bussing his partner Davsto. I seriously actually pored over his ISO like a moron looking for a slip so nice job.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Well for one, Johnny apparently buys RC's explanation, so you shouldn't expect him to vote RC:

Ugh. Guess it makes sense. Bells you should stop fake claiming shit it's giving me a headache.

As for me, I'm waiting to see what fitz has to say. I strongly dislike like that contradiction re: lying.

You seem incredulous that if RC is scum, he really would have bussed Davsto so early on, but it doesn't seem so out of line with all the other nontraditional, reckless, and irrational things he's said and done this game. It'd be something to consider before voting, but "Would he really..." seems like a stupid way to start a question when it comes to RC.

You have a fair point about the "would he really" thing. Who can actually empirically know what scum would do? It's better phrased as "what would make sense." RC was an ostentatious bully pushing the Davsto wagon when it was in a phase that could have easily been aborted. You could employ all sorts of WIFOM- driven logic to fit the narrative of RC bussing Davsto quickly (for shits and giggles maybe, idk) but to me it doesn't hold much water. I find it highly unlikely to be a bussing job on the part of RC.

[HenryCabotLodge]

No. You were wondering whether RC was capable of hardbussing.

She says she expected me to make that argument in 709 because she has done so in the past.

Everybody is capable of hardbussing. I suppose I didn't word my question well enough for your single-mindedness. What I meant was: does it make sense for RC to have bussed Davsto as his scumpartner on Day 1 and what could it possibly gain him?

[HenryCabotLodge]

Yes, it absolutely makes sense and it's something I've done in the past.

Why would Titus not even bring that up?

Maybe you have done it in the past, but I don't place much value on meta. It also does not make that much sense to me. "Town cred" does not like seem an appropriate tradeoff for lynching a scumpartner on day 1. Nevertheless, does it validate Titus' tunneling of you?