Mini 1706 - Pula Mafia (over)

[superbowl9]

VOTE: Grib
For the extreme laziness on that avatar outline selection

[superbowl9]

Grib, you should know by now I'm always town

Bella, as per request.

These RQS questions are not for any purpose but a bit of socialization and friendliness. Town would probably answer them out of love, kindness and because town is beautiful in nature.

1. Sweet or salty?
2. Favorite word of all time?
3. Who have you played with before and describe them in one word.
4. Link to the most recent complete town or scum game

Thank you

1. Salty
2. Salty
3. No one
4. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=62206

[superbowl9]

When u come back and there's 5 pages 0.0

[superbowl9]

Mkay sorry bout my post (and lack of posts) I didn't come in here knowing how much activity we should be having or stuff like that, so I'll step up my activeness.

On catboi

- He's my biggest townread atm because I believe his miller claim, I'm seeing the game mostly the same way as him, he's putting himself out there (was the first to call out Grib and claimed miller), and his little transformation into pissedoffboi in his most recent post seems genuine.

On Grib

- Bascially ditto catboi's argument on his reads, you usually put something like 86 in the same post as your reads (see this post ) or close after, especially after multiple promptings of "I don't see how you could have come to those conclusions". I'm not big on meta reads to start with, anyways. My vote stays on him for now, along with a slight scumread.

Well fuk mite as well make a full on reads list

Maxous is my second biggest townread, for largely the same reasons as catboi (he sees things the same way as me, he called out grib)

I don't know why but I start to get sleepy whenever I read Lalendra's posts, I thought I should just mention that. But yeah besides this

semi-serious RVS

Which made me cringe, nothing jumping out at me, so null.

Grayfox is at a really weak scumread because with his voting he seems to be treating miller claim as gospel, which strikes me as off.

Atum is null although I think the "I'M TOWN" in 78 is a lazy town tell with my

extremely

limited experience, so could more experienced people tell me if that has any basis?

Everyone else is null

Since I don't know how to name areas this area is for all the whys

I'm liking Grib as town too.

Why

I'm not really liking Atum or Grayfoxx.

Why

Catboi and Mala are probably town yeah.

Why

@everyone voting scorp
Why

Early town-read on Radja.

Why

Idk, it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Why (This is in reference to running up mala btw)

Also I think Banaki's cop question was anti-town but not alignment indicative

@elusive and lalendra are you still having doubts as to why someone would claim miller?

[superbowl9]

his voting he seems to be treating miller claim as gospel, which strikes me as off.

It's all I got right now, as this game is slow af. I'm not stuck on my vote though.

Notice the contrast.

Not what I was talking about...

Thinking about it more, maybe banakai was trying to role-fish a cop.
Or at least eliminate possiblites by judging reactions

Sure, we could speculate motives, but unless we can show that the scum motive is more likely than the town motive, there's no reason to get any sort of alignment info from the statement

[superbowl9]

Ok makes sense.
I had like a few non-null reads and I figured why not put em out there?
People have been asking for reads (I know at least Atum) as well, so when I was making the post and it was centered around 2 reads anyways I was like well why not just put all my reads out there.

[superbowl9]

A couple things, elusive.

First, the words "semi-serious rvs" make me cringe because an rvs vote is by nature nor serious, and I'm not even sure how a vote can be semi-serious. However this is mostly semantics and I don't see how it would change my read...

Second I don't see how that second quote of mine is really related to the rest of your post so why'd u include it

[superbowl9]

Did I not cover this in my post? My vote's staying on grib because I feel like his wagon's justified.

[superbowl9]

Lol what yelling tone? If anything it was a bit annoyed because I had to repeat what I just said in my other post. You seem kinda flustered, and also like you're out to get me. You sure you haven't already made your mind up over what my alignment is?

[superbowl9]

@elusive

Yes I have reads on some people and no read on other people.

Yes I agree with catboi(and I believe others)'s arguments as to why grib's reads suck and why this makes him scummy. There's nothing wrong with sheeping an argument or vote you agree with and can provide valid reasoning as to why you're sheeping. I don't see how where I placed my RVS vote has any relevance as to where my "real" vote is. Can you give me a reason why scum is more likely to keep their vote on their RVS than town?

I'm not going to meta grib because I don't really need to. I'll take his word that he often puts out early reads. It's not relevant to the point, which is that grib basically fabricated weak reads out of nowhere that he pushed as legit and said with what seemed like confidence. I don't care if he usually does this, because if he's usually acting scummy as both alignments then he should be a policy lynch. If he's only doing it as town, that's a meta read which can be manipulated, and it holds no weight imo.

If you see people who I should be pushing, great, tell me. Just say "Why aren't you pushing so and so for so and so?" And I'll be happy to answer. If your point's valid, I'll push them, and if I really think you've found a good scumtell or scummy action I'll vote them. I provided reasons because that's what you do every time you make a read or vote unless you're reaction testing. It helps other people understand why you're doing what you're doing, which is beneficial for everyone. I provided a full reads list because of acombination of my own decision and Atum's prompting.

What should I do to "further solidify" my grib read? I have an idea, I'll wait until he posts some more and then evaluate those posts. If he doesn't post, I'll be more inclined to lynch him. I'm not set in stone on calling him scum.

Can't tell if the "why" at the end is a legitamate question or a petty jab at me (in which case it would be pretty ironic, because you've said I make no attempt to solidify my reads, and asking questions is a pretty good way to do that)

[superbowl9]

So originally I was thinking noob on scorp, hence the null, but then this post came along...

Ok,catboi so I make a mistake and remedy it.. You still have problems, yes I find your claim bullshit..

I think you are scum, I think claiming miller makes it super convinient for you to install a defense. If you get investigated you can just be like "see, I claimed miller". If they even investigate you.. Frankly I dont understand why all scum doesn't do that.

Scenario A- the potential cop buys your claim. Leaves you alone and you skate.

Scenario B- they investigate you,you come up guilty,but have your fake claim installed as a defense,its lazy..

Now you just use shitty piss poor excuses to vote me..

so now its a legit vote.VOTE: catboi

And I decided to look at his profile, and learned that he has more games than me.
Then I looked through his iso again, and like all his content is basically this.
I see now why he needs to go.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Scorp

actually I can see a millers claim being suspicious to a new player or someone unsure of the role and claim. I don't see a player with a bit more experience sheeping a claimed miller.

Wouldn't it be the other way around? If noobs are suspicious of the claim and it's implied experienced ppl wouldn't be suspicious, wouldn't an experienced player be more likely to sheep because they're not suspicious?

[superbowl9]

That's L-1 btw

[superbowl9]

I guess UNVOTE: for now?
My first normal so I'm not sure if this is a sus claim (although I think doc claims are usually pretty suspicious) or if I should still be voting.

@more experienced people

: can I get an analysis of the claim?

[superbowl9]

-2

Malakittens has 2 prods left till she passes away.

Do me a favor mod. Exchange "passes away" to any other phrase in the damn world, but that phrase itself, please and thanks~

Plz change to "kittied away"

[superbowl9]

I don't know why but I start to get sleepy whenever I read Lalendra's posts, I thought I should just mention that. But yeah besides this

semi-serious RVS

Which made me cringe, nothing jumping out at me, so null.

Why? Because you see it as an oxymoron, or for some other reason?

Also not understanding how catboi's objection to the flavor nonsense makes him town, both town and scum are equally likely to get annoyed by a given modding style.

In regards to your question about the miller claim, I understand the strategy behind it to some degree, but it still isn't how I would have approached it.

Yes I find it oxymoronic.

It was more catboi being pissed off at me and others for not having enough content, because if that's genuine (which I think it was), then that means he legit wants people to create more content, which is not what scum want.

Okay, good

[superbowl9]

Your ISO just stinks

Can I make this my signature

[superbowl9]

Also that entire post seems to scream "lazy" to me, what do you mean by these things sorting themselves out? Can u elaborate?

[superbowl9]

Yeah but one claimed wo any good reason. No pressure, so idk. I have to think, I panicked at thinking deadline was close but we're okay for two days.

Scorpy's role needs to be looked at but can also be checked.

Omg this has been explained
Literally just read this

Claiming as miller is commonly accepted practice everywhere I've played.

To me there's no purpose whatsoever in hiding , risks wasting both a cop investigation and a mislynch were I to get checked, and holding off on claiming means I'm far less likely to be believed when I do claim (I will claw the eyeballs out of anyone who says this is being overly cautious).

You want to debate theory, you can do it in mafia discussion but claiming miller isn't anything out of the ordinary.

[superbowl9]

@mala how r the roles contradictory?

[superbowl9]

To be honest the claim doesn't make that much sense to me.

The weak modifier is a pretty weak variant of a cop. If there's a miller I'm actually expecting there to be a cop in the setup.

I don't really play mini normals, but wonder what would happen if a weak modifier targets a miller, if that would cause them to die.

It wouldn't make him die, the weak modifier says it makes the player die when they target scum, not players that appear as scum. I don't actually think my role contradicts his, could see a mod doing that to mess with people's expectations.

However, if that's why Scorpious thought my claim was fake, his actions suddenly start to make a lot more sense. I'll do a re-read tomorrow to put fresh eyes on it, and also d a reads list now that there's some content to work with.

P-edit: are you freaking kidding me? What the hell are you two doing?

[superbowl9]

I'd like to point out that by lynching outside of scorp/catboi we will have a total of 3 claims today. Idk if that's normal in normals, and it seems like a lot to me, but I would only really be comfortable lynching outside catboi/scorp. I think scorp should be a candidate tomorrow if he's not dead by then, and there's like 0 logical arguments against catboi. Elusive's reasons in 237 are all terrible.

I'd like to hear from grib's replacement before lynching him but idk if that's feasible, I'll check deadline (phoneposting)

I'm comfortable with grey and grib.

[superbowl9]

Eh I'll give it a day. If grib's replacement doesn't post tomorrow I'm voting him. (I will probably also vote him if he posts, unless he provides some good arguments as to why I shouldn't)

[superbowl9]

VOTE: shaddow
Not a fan of the elusive read nor the scorp vote (I can see where he's coming from a little on that though)

[superbowl9]

I'm comfortable with grey and grib.

Not a fan of the elusive read nor the scorp vote (I can see where he's coming from a little on that though)

In the first post I quoted, you're comfortable voting me or Gray. In the second quote, you give two reasons for voting me, one of which you say you can see where I'm coming from a little (and the other is because you don't like one of my reads....). Other than the comfortable spot on the wagon, why vote me over Gray?

Sry didn't clear up that those two comments were kind of sidenotes. The main reasons I voted you can be found in 277 and 135

[superbowl9]

Wait what's going on in that vc
I'm voting myself and catboi's voting shaddow?

[superbowl9]

Why are both grib and shaddow being shown?

[superbowl9]

Grib replaced site wide so anyone trying to pin scum on that is atrocious.

catboi's reads are nonsense and utterly so. "Feel strongly on elu-scum but absolutely think Scorpious should be the vote today."

So, again not voting your strongest scum read? Why?

Care to elaborate on why catboi's reads are utter nonsense?

[superbowl9]

VOTE: elusive

[superbowl9]

Btw the gray thing www probably a vig shot so im not too fussed about it
Cuz it www pretty defeNT pick

Mala plz dont be anti-town

[superbowl9]

Saying stuff about setup rite?
Outing potential vig?

[superbowl9]

Oh I'm dumb
Sry

[superbowl9]

VOTE: Malakittens

This is why I wanted to run you up Mala.

What's the reasoning behind this again? Are you saying you had the same reasoning the first time you said this?

[superbowl9]

Why yes I would

[superbowl9]

Being wrong doesn't mean you're scum.
Mala was only trying to protect a possible PR. I don't see why that is scummy at all.

I actually totally agree with this

Yesterday I was very skeptical of grib/shaddow's soft because I'd been played by scum in that exact situation before in epicmafia (cue groans/flaming). I didn't want to comment on it, however, because I felt it would be anti-town to do so, so I kept my mouth shut so as not to out town prs.

Turns out I was wrong, though, but, as radj says, wrong=/=scum.

[superbowl9]

superbowl, why is your vote on me at all? What mind blowing case did Mala make at that point? Interesting.

Because I trust mala.

[superbowl9]

It's not really my job to defend myself, it's your job to make an accurate case which you have already failed at. Being dismissive of people who play as if this is Town of Salem is a my prerogative.

Clearly does not want to be in the game nor cares if he's lynched. Wagon pls

[superbowl9]

UNVOTE: elu

Why

[superbowl9]

I'm not feeling the elusive wagon at all. Her interactions and defense feel kind of towny to me.

Is it just a gut feeling? Or do you have any actual points to back it up?

[superbowl9]

Have any other suggestions on who to lynch?
Cause right now it's elusive for me.

[superbowl9]

Guys, elu has got to l-1 once now and no-ones really reacting to it. This is concerning to me.

Why?

[superbowl9]

About the Mala case:
It's pretty weak I think, but since you're not voting her over it, I suppose it's fine. Can you explain how voting Scorp's town role claim is different from voting Catboi's town role claim?

1. Scorp's claim was cc'd
2. They were different claims happening at different times and in different contexts
3. Scorp was acting very scummy and there were valid points etc. demonstrating this whereas catboi (iirc) didn't have anyone pushing a case as to why he was scummy for anything other than the claim itself

[superbowl9]

I thought about writing this in the post but I didn't know the context of that, just saw it and felt like responding. It didn't really seem like it was directed at any one person

[superbowl9]

plus theres two people ont he wagon i dont like

Lale & Max

Wait why don't you like max?

Still haven't changed my mind, not sure what's causing the game to stagnate.

Probly the elusive wagon people are getting off for no reason. Someone needs to give intent to hammer, elu needs to claim, or a counter-wagon needs to start up (atum's vanity doesn't count).

[superbowl9]

St Constantine please don't hammer unanounced like last game. Elusive is at L-1, if you vote him it will be a hammer and I will policy lynch you once again.

[superbowl9]

@Superbowl, I don't like it because no one is yelling about why we shouldn't hammer her, suggesting they town-read her, but no one is committed to her lynch. If people who are voting her think elu is scum, they should be pushing it, not just...sitting there. Also, being at l-1 twice without intent to hammer/claim is strange. Only mala's really explained why she's not happy with the wagon, but hasn't pursued her scum reads. Like someone said, the day phase has kinda stalled, and I don't like it. People are talking about mala (which is a kinda meh case) but also not voting her.

@mala, talk to me about max? I had similar thoughts day 1, but interactions have made me wonder.

also, @mod, elu needs a prod.

Like I said,

Probly the elusive wagon people are getting off for no reason. Someone needs to give intent to hammer, elu needs to claim, or a counter-wagon needs to start up (atum's vanity doesn't count).

Lookin at u radj, mala.

[superbowl9]

I rolled scum this game, so I am hoping that can be some positive utility to town.
Unfortunately I do not know who my scumbuddy is, so we are going to have to do actual scum hunting.

Firebringer has the right idea. When I am not blatantly anti-town, I am scum.

I really hate this
Maybe a gr8 b8 by jester, but I don't put it past him to actually be scum.
He's in elu's slot right? I'm thinking maybe jester then, because of how elu was asking to be lynched as well, or maybe it's a gambit, idk I have no experience with this

[superbowl9]

Oh nope bringer is in elu's spot

[superbowl9]

I have been and will be phoneposting until saturday because our cable/internet went out after a storm. So I can't really check while im writing the post but i'll check after

[superbowl9]

Catboi you said you would be okay with a banaki wagon, right? How do you feel about a constantine wagon? The elusive/bringer wagon is not going anywhere so
UNVOTE:
VOTE: St. Constantantine

[superbowl9]

Is there anyone you guys want me to take a look at more in depth?

The person/people you think are most likely to be scum.

[superbowl9]

Still don't really understand this at all. You want to lynch him for not voting you?

As I understand it firebringer has played with constnatine before and is using meta to make a read that as town, Constantine usually does the most anti-town thing, which in that situation would have been to hammer elusive. Since he didn't hammer elusive, bringer therefore concludes that constantine must be scum (I don't agree with this logic, but I think he's scum in the end so I guess we agree).

[superbowl9]

Because he said he was, and I don't think there's any roles allowed in normal that benefit from being lynched. Not to mention I wasn't townreading banaki.

[superbowl9]

So... you think town would scum claim like that?

[superbowl9]

VOTE: St Constantine

You forgot to announce that this makes it L-1.

Hermit, ball is in your court.

Looks like blind town or scum trying to gain points

[superbowl9]

Reread the thread a little bit

[superbowl9]

Me too

[superbowl9]

So yeah I was townreading max and mala anyways so I do agree that scum is within bella/lalendra/bringer.

[superbowl9]

Mkay guys lalendra is town so don't lynch her

Same goes for mala

Townreading catboi, max, and myself

That leaves bringer and bella rite? And bringer is in elusive's spot? Let's go with that.

VOTE: bringer

[superbowl9]

Idk I don't use meta

[superbowl9]

Eh i disagree could just be lazy playstyle

[superbowl9]

I agree we need more activity
more votes on firebringer pls

[superbowl9]

How is this tunneling

[superbowl9]

How is this tunneling

By emphasis the part where you only focus on one player and disregard all the others?
I guess you could say it is a little forced to call it tunneling since you only just started.


Ehhh.

So asking for votes on a wagon is focusing in on one player and ignoring everything else? What should I do, ask for votes on another wagon that I don't agree with?

I agree we need more activity
more votes on firebringer pls

Hey. Answer me: why did your read on lalendra change from 593 to 614?

I'm ignoring you for a good reason. Please stop asking.

Hi,

There's no real defense for my play this game - it's been shitty, and my reads are hella weak rn. However, I've not done anything scummy, and there isn't really a case to defend against - I feel like i'm a compromise lynch and maybe town will get enough information from it to nail the last scum. I would ask, tho, if anyone had any questions etc to direct them at me, bc 1-2-1 interaction generally works best for me.

The part about the "I haven't done anything scummy" almost makes me want to vote bella but the rest of it is okay.

[superbowl9]

I can compromise with this, as long as it's fire tomorrow. Intent to hammer.

[superbowl9]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bellaphant

[superbowl9]

Am I the only one laughing at Investigation-Immune One-Shot Bulletproof Fruit Vendor Odd-Night Serial Killer?

[superbowl9]

I think it wasn't a bad choice, considering that scorp may have not gotten lynched had you not done it. I kinda did the same thing by softing cop. Also im sad my buddy catboi turned out scum :'(