Mini 1701 - Modified Werewolf 13er

[Doctor Who]

Doctor Who replaces WoodyWoodpecker.

Confirming in, I'll post after the kids are in bed tonight.

Anything I should be aware of when I back read? Thanks in advance.

[Doctor Who]

Starting off with baseline activity. Reminder that as I read up to scrutinize the low posters, particularly those with fewer posts than the mod (will need to adjust for replacements)

Spoiler: Activity sorted by post count

BlueBloodedToffee Jul 24, 11:31am Jul 26, 03:10pm 0 days 4 hours 86
Keyser Söze Jul 24, 11:57am Jul 26, 06:53pm 0 days 0 hours 80
WoodyWoodpecker Jul 24, 11:30am Jul 26, 06:17am 0 days 13 hours 77
Boonskiies Jul 25, 10:34pm Jul 26, 06:54pm 0 days 0 hours 56
absta101 Jul 24, 12:15pm Jul 26, 07:14pm 0 days 0 hours 40
Bulbazoor Jul 24, 03:48pm Jul 26, 06:02pm 0 days 1 hour 37
redFF Jul 24, 01:10pm Jul 26, 05:39pm 0 days 2 hours 30
Zoronos Jul 24, 12:27pm Jul 26, 04:39pm 0 days 3 hours 27
Banakai Jul 24, 08:54pm Jul 26, 06:48pm 0 days 0 hours 19
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Shinobi Jul 24, 09:06am Jul 26, 01:07pm 0 days 6 hours 12
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Haschel Cedricson Jul 24, 11:52am Jul 26, 04:48pm 0 days 2 hours 12
Kmd4390 Jul 24, 04:56pm Jul 26, 11:29am 0 days 8 hours 8
Vinkah Jul 24, 11:41am Jul 25, 06:01am 1 day 13 hours 8
TonyMontana Jul 24, 12:04pm Jul 24, 12:41pm 2 days 7 hours 2
RedCoyote Jul 24, 05:22pm Jul 24, 05:22pm 2 days 2 hours 1
Doctor Who Jul 26, 12:13pm Jul 26, 12:13pm 0 days 7 hours 1

[Doctor Who]

Notes from first four pages

BBT seems to love wagons. Scum would want to wagon a lot to out power roles, but town would want to get the game going. Wonders why Zoro didn't vote.

KS post 12 (first in the game) reeks of "look at me, I'm town". Lists all of the players as Null except himself, who he omits.

Review his subsequent posts to see if it is there.

Zoronos (reg date 4/6/15) says what KS does is sarcasm in his first post. Possible defense of scumbuddy

KS posts that he isn't serious, chides Z for the replying for him, votes Vinkah who wasn't sure if serious

TM - playing a little newb for 10 years

absta101 - playstyle appears similar to mine

Woody (me now) - getting heat for how he posts before back reading? Weak sauce. BBT seems to be laying the foundation of mislynching me should RC flip scum, based on Woody not being around. Real time up to this isn't measured in days either.

Only 9 of 13 in the game so far. So far BBT seems most scummy.

[Doctor Who]

Well the next four pages sure were interesting! Woody was defensive, but understandibly so because of the nonsense case from BBT that KS supported. In his frustration, he isn't playing well with others.

Here is the wagon that got to L-1 on me. This early in the game I can't help but think it was loaded with scum. My favorite part was when rediff cast the L-1 vote. I'm anxious to see if BBT gets in his grill for not paying attention. He hasn't posted yet in my read through after these happened.

At least everyone has shown up now.

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is ?EST; updated through post 175
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
WoodyWoodpecker_____6______Vinkah (9), BlueBloodedToffee (66), Keyser Söze (72), absta101 (132), Bulbazoor (138), redff (168)
no vote_____________2______Banakai, RedCoyote
absta101____________1______Zoronos (102)
BlueBloodedToffee___1______Kmd4390 (144)
Haschel Cedricson___1______WoodyWoodpecker (51)
Kmd4390_____________1______TonyMontana (13)
unvote______________1______Haschel Cedricson (76)

[Doctor Who]

Up to about 250, I've had it for the night. I can see how BBT could be overzealous town instead of scum. I like the wagon analysis that has started, but I'm disatisfied with the follow up on redff.

[Doctor Who]

Prod dodge, expect more from me within 24 hours.

[Doctor Who]

Prod dodge, expect more from me within 24 hours.

I thought I'd have more time at work today, but no. Tonight after the kids go down my goal is another 250 posts.

@everyone

- On a different message board (not dedicated to mafia), before a day was over each player posted their suspect list, along with your reasons for each suspect. This has been very helpful in the past hunting scum, particularly once the first scum has been lynched. How about we do that in this game?

I'll post mine after I get more caught up.

[Doctor Who]

These help me to see who is flying under the radar. My replacement is still carrying me.

Spoiler: Updated Activity

Keyser Söze Jul 24, 12:57pm Jul 29, 05:26pm 0 days 5 hours 100
BlueBloodedToffee Jul 24, 12:31pm Jul 28, 01:09pm 1 day 9 hours 100
WoodyWoodpecker Jul 24, 12:30pm Jul 26, 07:17am 3 days 15 hours 77
Boonskiies Jul 25, 11:34pm Jul 29, 06:41pm 0 days 4 hours 68
absta101 Jul 24, 01:15pm Jul 28, 03:42pm 1 day 7 hours 56
redFF Jul 24, 02:10pm Jul 28, 08:44pm 1 day 2 hours 48
Bulbazoor Jul 24, 04:48pm Jul 28, 09:57pm 1 day 0 hours 43
Zoronos Jul 24, 01:27pm Jul 29, 12:45pm 0 days 10 hours 35 Aug 03 2015
Banakai Jul 24, 09:54pm Jul 29, 09:33pm 0 days 1 hour 27
Haschel Cedricson Jul 24, 12:52pm Jul 29, 09:37pm 0 days 1 hour 25
Kmd4390 Jul 24, 05:56pm Jul 29, 09:07pm 0 days 1 hour 23
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Shinobi Jul 24, 10:06am Jul 29, 12:59pm 0 days 9 hours 17
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Vinkah Jul 24, 12:41pm Jul 25, 07:01am 4 days 15 hours 8
TonyMontana Jul 24, 01:04pm Jul 28, 07:58am 1 day 14 hours 8
Doctor Who Jul 26, 01:13pm Jul 29, 08:49am 0 days 13 hours 7
RedCoyote Jul 24, 06:22pm Jul 29, 09:37pm 0 days 1 hour 3

[Doctor Who]

Reading back a bit, Banakai makes this statement without context.

Also red ff is town

And then a few posts later "backs up what he meant"

Because his posts are a towns posts.

I ISO'd redFF up to this point, and the only thing of note that he had done was jump on the Woody bandwagon to put it at L-1.

@Banakai

, what did redFF specifically do in his

eight

posts before 195 that made you think he is town?

In fairness to redFF, he did unvote.

unvote

didn't kno it was l-1, still think ur scummy

mod we need a votecount pls

Note to self, follow up after Banakai answers.

[Doctor Who]

I've played with kmd before, and this is the kind of insight that stuck out ot me.

Hmm. Upset at the claim, but used "lol" twice in that post.

kmd scores townpoints because he's the first to point it out, and the "lol" he is referring to was from redFF regarding woody's claim. The double lol makes me think that redFF is scum and in reality loves that the town is already claiming.

[Doctor Who]

Spoiler: example of BBT's infatuation with Woody

Cause I was playing swordigo on my phone and didn't notice a wagon had formed

And I'd be like "cause I totally didn't see it" and it would be the truth because when I came back to the thread it was on page 2, he got votes on page 3

I also don't always go back and read what I miss right away id rather stay with current discussion

Upon closer inspection it appears that Woody can't decide what he did/didn't do.

In 55, he 'didn't notice' a wagon had formed. This would imply that he had been reading but missed the wagon forming.

In 63, he claims again that he didn't see the wagon. Again, this implies that he had read the whole game and had simply missed the votes accumulating on Haschel. Although, the section attached at the end implies that he had not gone back to read the thread, the start of his change in stance and to the reasoning he chooses to stay with.

Then in 73, he claims that he didn't go back and read the thread and this is the story he tries to stay with. His reasoning for ignoring the Haschel wagon very subtly changes and it changes to something that he claims he does all the time.

The wording of the posts are quite important because he is more relaxed during the earlier posting and it much more likely to make subtle mistakes. As the pressure starts mounting, his story changes to something that he claims he does all the time and I find this super convenient for his situation.

The other thing that I really don't like is his 'stay with current discussion' comment. The current discussion at that time was ongoing games...what did he expect to gain from that? Once he saw that the discussion was about ongoings why would he a) not read back to see how that topic come up or b) read back to see if there was anything he missed that he could actually comment on and change the current discussion to something useful?

Quite frankly, if someone either a) doesn't care enough to read the whole thread to gain context or b) quite regularly misses things (convenient play-style for scum, no?) then I don't particularly want them around even if they're town.

Now contrast how BBT vs. Woody to BBT vs. RedFF.

if u iso woodywoodpecker he has a LOT of posts, very little, if any, scumhunting. the posts are mainly contentless/defending himself

vote:woodywoodpecker

This is a bad jump on the wagon. There are a couple of votes that I want to look closely at regarding the Woody wagon and this is one of them.

Can you explain why it is scummy to defend yourself? In Woody's defence, it's extremely difficult to scum hunt when you have 4-5 people voting/attacking you.

Posting before backreading does not make one scum. In fact, if when you back read you re-read what was "current" you get more context and the benefit of reading things twice. Pushing a bullshit case is scummy.

Regarding redFF's premature L-1 on Woody, I'd argue that it is infinitely more scummy than posting before backreading. Now the kicker is that BBT recognized it too, and said that it was a bad jump on the wagon. Yet BBT (so far) isn't hunting redFF nearly as much. The BBT quote above is only part of a much larger post on many other topics.

Scum coming in late on a wagon and claiming they didn't know the vote count is one of the oldest tricks in the book.

[Doctor Who]

BBT, how does Woody missing something imply he's read the game? I missed all of last night's posts because I was sleeping. Does that imply I've read them? No. I'm doing that now. I agree with you that he should have gone back to reqd what he missed, but why is that poor scum play and not poor town play? Why do you already seem to be scumhunting on the Woody wagon (Bulb, redff, absta) like you already know he'll flip town? You're also pushing Woody for not commenting on the Haschel wagon. I don't believe I commented on it either (I could be wrong). If I didn't, does that make me scum? Do you think Haschel is scum?

It was the wording. It made me feel like he had been reading the game but 'didn't notice' the votes piling up on Haschel. It's poor scum play because of the subtle changes in his story and the pure convenience of his stance on it.

Am I not allowed to look at who joined the wagon and why? Should I ignore all other people until Woody is lynched? Why are you firing loaded questions at me?

I'm pushing Woody for both his ignoring of the wagon until prompted and his reactions afterwards.

I don't know if Haschel is scum, he has barely posted anything.

^This, see bolded. If you are pushing Woody for ignoring the wagon, shouldn't you push redFF even harder for ignoring the votes on Woody's wagon?

VOTE: BBT

[Doctor Who]

gree. I have no tolerance for players like he is playing in this game. Absta is ww or town. Instead of the latter, I believe him to he town because of the linez of thinking he posts. The conversation with kmd was fishy but It does not prove his alignment to be

Interesting that
1) you go out of your way to identify the only two possibilities for absta (not rocket science)
2) you list him as ww first (people generally put their best guess first)
3)"Instead of the latter" - the latter as you stated is town, so you essentially wrote "Instead of town, I believe him to be town"

I"m not sure what to make of it.

[Doctor Who]

VOTE: red ff ya I know I called him town

Maybe lazy wasn't the right word but mist of his posts are bandwagons/obvious things/low effort, especially recent ones. And his tone is just kind of suspicious

Up to this point, Banakai could use this reasoning to vote for himself. Timing is interesting as it happened just after two votes on Vinkah.

[Doctor Who]

Up to 350. Good night.

[Doctor Who]

Ouch! That was a prod.

[Doctor Who]

Wow, I did not notice this was an open set-up.

[Doctor Who]

Yeah, it makes me think Woody is probably town.

Has no effect on my read or the awfulness of that post from Redff though.

So you started a BS wagon on me because you didn't know it was an open setup!?!?

i had ww as scum for his massive overdefensiveness, but now that he is replacing out because someone he "doesn't like" has joined the game, it makes his in-game behaviour more believable as he may be a sensitive person who cannot take attacks very well

therefore he is becoming less of a scumread for me, what are people's thoughts

Someone else with a change of heart.

cool, so you think the slot is town?

Yes, a town-lean on WoodyWoodpecker's slot at the moment - it was probably around page 10 (post #225 onwards) that I began to re-evaluate my read on WoodyWoodpecker - re-reading his posts I could see how his emotive posts could be from the perspective of a townie (even if I disagreed with his in-game attitude).

Taking a step back then allowed me to focus on the players who were both on WoodyWoodpecker's wagon and those who were sat on the periphery.

Another change of heart. I wonder if I'll find this on more folks on the terrible wagon.

I thought you said you had played with me before? You don't seem to be aware of how I play Mafia. I'm always confident. I'm always 100% on my reads, I don't see the point in being wishy-washy.

So we should use your meta? I thought meta was bad.

[Doctor Who]

Doctor Who replaces WoodyWoodpecker.

Confirming in, I'll post after the kids are in bed tonight.

Anything I should be aware of when I back read? Thanks in advance.

And I've caught myself.

[Doctor Who]

You should realise by spamming all these small posts you are hurting town. It makes the game harder to follow for everyone else.

Boonskiies is hurting town, but then who are the "everyone else" in your second sentence?

[Doctor Who]

I didn't want to spam the thread with this long post again, but it is well thought out original material. I am not a hydra.

Spoiler: Town Post from Haschel

Jesus Christ this thread just keeps on going, doesn't it? Anyhoo, I'm pretty sure my brain glazed over sometime in the last page or two but I do have a couple opinions to bring to the table.

First off, my number one scumread right now is Banakai. There have been a few really weird statements, and they started with his first post:

Woody: would you care to explain why you are playing so defensive? As a town usually you just have to accept that one of you are gonna die day 1 probbably, and just try and get as much information as possible even when being voted.[...]

BBT: Do you think there would be any motivation in this game for a scum to tunnel on Woody like you are now?

The first sentence is oddly fatalistic; if somebody is attack you with crappy arguments (like I believe Keyser and BBT were), it is a disservice to the town to NOT be defensive. And what is up with that second question to BBT? It comes across almost like an attempt to bolster a scumbuddy's town cred. Later on I feel he completely misrepresents WW's statement about "not needing to scumhunt within the first hours of the game" and conflates activity with scumhunting, which are obviously not the same. He then goes on to read redFF as town, but then wavers saying that he posted "some questionable things". The problem is, I don't think any of the things he cites are questionable at all; heck, banakai makes the EXACT SAME JOKE he describes as "forced" in post 305. This gives the feeling of somebody trying to set up a reason to later vote for a person they once publicly stated was town. In fact, this is indeed exactly what he does in 317. Also in post 305 he says "The werewolf is probbably not posted enough comments to get noticed by me". Anybody see anything weird about that? Like the attitude that we're only looking for one person and not a partnership?

Now he votes for Boonskiies, citing a reason that does not apply at all, since Boonskiies did not replace Woody. However, even after admitting this, he keeps his vote there! This would be fine, except he doesn't mention any other reasons! Then instead of giving reasons he claims he was going to post them but "[boon] just made a case for himself." Really? An event that happened AFTER your vote can't be your reason for making the vote in the first place; why didn't you post the case you said you already wrote anyways? Is it because you never wrote up a case at all? (I think it's because you never wrote up a case at all.)

There's probably some more stuff but damned if I'm wading through 20 pages to find it again. Nevertheless,

Vote: Banakai

As for notes on the others: I mentioned earlier that Keyser and BBT were both making a really awful case against WW and then had even more awful reactions to people pointing that out. Keyser gives me a sense of sincerity, even though I disagree with a lot of what he says. He did commit my personal pet peeve of answering a question that was targeted to another player, but everything else about him seems fairly genuine for now.

BBT does not give me that impression. His first attack on Woody was disbelief of Woody's claim that he missed the Haschelwagon. I think this was silly, but then BBT doubles down and starts strawmanning. His reaction to redFF's reaction to Woody's claim doesn't seem right to me; there is nothing about redFF's post that comes off as "super fake" to me. What DOES come across as fake, though, is his suspicion of absta. Absta asked for elaboration on the crappy WW case, because elaboration was 100% needed. He also sets up a false dichotomy:

He goes against me; saying he disagrees with my reasoning and it feels forced. This would imply he thinks I'm scum, no?"

What? No, it doesn't imply that at all. Why would you say it did?

By the by, I find it very hard to believe that he somehow didn't check Woody's join date until post 244.

Right. Moving on.

Bulb is giving a ton of posts that just sort of state what happened, with not a lot of analysis. I also didn't like him stating that "Absta is ww or town." Is there a Scummie for Least Hard-Hitting Analysis? If so, that sentence deserves it. I also don't like his attitude of "We can't keep WW til Lylo; may as well get rid of him now." Other than that, though, what analysis IS there doesn't raise any red flags for me.

redFF is the towniest townie that ever towned a town. Kmd is raising good points; slight townread there. The RC situation baffles me a little; his intro post wasn't the best ever, but I agreed with a lot of parts of it and certainly don't think it merits three votes on its own after so many things have happened in the intervening time. Sure, he's lurking, but so was I. So was TonyMontana. So activity can't account for all of it.

I like Boonskiies post 327 and wish there was some followup there. I do not like his 329 and would like an explanation. Then again I really like his self-vote, so you're alright in my book, Boonskiies.

Absta is a minor scum read due to his statement that Keyser was town near the beginning accompanied by some hedging. I agree with his point about BBT's attacks on Woody being forced, but I disagree with his belief that Woody is scummy for "defending instead of finding scum". I also don't like his reaction to Boonskiies earlier.

I don't have anything specific to say about Zoronos but I found myself agreeing with a lot of the arguments he was posting.

That's it for now.

-----

For the record, I have a pretty strong no-playing-with-hydrae policy, so if one replaces into the game, I will replace out. Usually this isn't a problem, but it has happened before and with Woody's exit I feel everybody deserves a heads-up.

[Doctor Who]

the game had just begun, so naturally they would all be null I thought it was funny, personally
True, I could have listed myself as a "town read" incase I forgot who I was
Reeks of "look at me, I'm town"? I hope so! You're obviously not a fan of Liam Neeson are you. Anyway, I'd hate for my posts to reek of "look at me, I'm scum"

Welcome to the game.

The Liam Neeson thing did say "look at me, I'm town" and what surprised me is that you didn't follow it up by listing yourself as town. I wasn't sure if you were going to keep the running notes on alignment either.

[Doctor Who]

Doctor Who, can you explain what you got out of the wagon analysis?

Not much. It was only one wagon, and early on. I've got my eye on the six that ran it up, and I think everyone else should remember that too. Assuming I'm still around, I'll color code significant wagons between confirmed town and scum and things will jump out.

I'm a big fan of wagon analysis, and in listing suspects with reasons.

Hopefully I get totally caught up tonight, I'm sure there are other outstanding questions to me and I need to list my own suspects.

[Doctor Who]

Hey, sorry for the slow start, busy weekend, reading up now.

In defense of me posting elsewhere, thats only low-effort phone-posting in a game near end-game which didnt require much of me.

I didn't recall seeing anyone noting you were posting elsewhere, I'm surprised you brought it up.

[Doctor Who]

Three posts in sequence from Tony's ISO

Having been away for a few years, I might ask about certain lingo.

For starters, i understand what a Pedit is, but why is it called that?

Hey, sorry for the slow start, busy weekend, reading up now.

In defense of me posting elsewhere, thats only low-effort phone-posting in a game near end-game which didnt require much of me.

17 minutes between these two posts, and based on when you posted you went from page 2 (post 26) to page 15. Frankly, when someone is able to catch up so quickly it makes me think they are scum since they already know who their buddies are and they just need to bandwagon a townie and make sure one of their scumbuddies doesn't get lynched.

Up to page 15 note:
Boonski has been making a lot of posts, yet have been saying little of note.

[Doctor Who]

BBT seems to be laying the foundation of mislynching me should RC flip scum, based on Woody not being around.

Can you go into this some more please?

I had the name wrong, it wasn't

R

C it was the

H

C wagon. This is the post.

they're not paying attention to. For example, should we lynch Haschel at any point and he flips scum, I will look back at RVS and be

[Doctor Who]

Apologies for incoming wall, tried to break it up by boxing my reply to Haschel's 502.

This early in the game I can't help but think it was loaded with scum.

Can you explain this? What about the timing of the wagon makes it more likely to have scum on it?

1) The case against Woody was based on him not backreading before posting, which you yourself have noted isn't scummy anymore. It ended up being a wagon that just let the scum know a claim.
2) The flurry of votes that it picked up, again for no good reason.
3) The accidental L-1 vote, it could have been a hammer had there been another vote
4) That all this happened by post 168 - how much info was out there by then? How many people hadn't posted anything of substance? Scum would have loved a Day 1 mislynch with the town having almost nothing to go on.

This isn't rocket science BBT.

[Doctor Who]

These help me to see who is flying under the radar. My replacement is still carrying me.

Spoiler: Updated Activity

Keyser Söze Jul 24, 12:57pm Jul 29, 05:26pm 0 days 5 hours 100
BlueBloodedToffee Jul 24, 12:31pm Jul 28, 01:09pm 1 day 9 hours 100
WoodyWoodpecker Jul 24, 12:30pm Jul 26, 07:17am 3 days 15 hours 77
Boonskiies Jul 25, 11:34pm Jul 29, 06:41pm 0 days 4 hours 68
absta101 Jul 24, 01:15pm Jul 28, 03:42pm 1 day 7 hours 56
redFF Jul 24, 02:10pm Jul 28, 08:44pm 1 day 2 hours 48
Bulbazoor Jul 24, 04:48pm Jul 28, 09:57pm 1 day 0 hours 43
Zoronos Jul 24, 01:27pm Jul 29, 12:45pm 0 days 10 hours 35 Aug 03 2015
Banakai Jul 24, 09:54pm Jul 29, 09:33pm 0 days 1 hour 27
Haschel Cedricson Jul 24, 12:52pm Jul 29, 09:37pm 0 days 1 hour 25
Kmd4390 Jul 24, 05:56pm Jul 29, 09:07pm 0 days 1 hour 23
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Shinobi Jul 24, 10:06am Jul 29, 12:59pm 0 days 9 hours 17
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Vinkah Jul 24, 12:41pm Jul 25, 07:01am 4 days 15 hours 8

TonyMontana Jul 24, 01:04pm Jul 28, 07:58am 1 day 14 hours 8

Doctor Who Jul 26, 01:13pm Jul 29, 08:49am 0 days 13 hours 7

RedCoyote Jul 24, 06:22pm Jul 29, 09:37pm 0 days 1 hour 3

@Doctor Who - what are your thoughts about the

low-activity

posters?

RedCoyote - I'd prefer him to see him scum-hunting in the-thick-of-the-action, reacting on the spot, instead of timed responses to events. I am not a fan of long periodic catch-up posts (possible sheeping tactic). However, RL may obviously restrict his online activity.
TonyMontana - he was the late joiner to our party, jumping on the Boonskiies-hate wagon - can I blame him? Was suspicious to see him focus purely on Boonskiies with his first scum-analysis thought. Need more input from him. He has hinted at reads, but not explained them.

I'd like them to post a lot more, choose sides on the various things that have happened so far. RC hadn't even voted until post 649, so there isn't much history on him.

Someone can still have a decent number of posts, but have no decent content.

Admittedly, I replaced in unaware that there would be so many posts to go through. I'm working on it.

[Doctor Who]

Posting before backreading does not make one scum. In fact, if when you back read you re-read what was "current" you get more context and the benefit of reading things twice. Pushing a bullshit case is scummy.

Regarding redFF's premature L-1 on Woody, I'd argue that it is infinitely more scummy than posting before backreading. Now the kicker is that BBT recognized it too, and said that it was a bad jump on the wagon. Yet BBT (so far) isn't hunting redFF nearly as much. The BBT quote above is only part of a much larger post on many other topics.

Scum coming in late on a wagon and claiming they didn't know the vote count is one of the oldest tricks in the book.

Firstly, what you spoilered was me explaining my position on Woody. The fact you spoilered it as an 'infatuation' shows that you're intending to scum read me because of it no matter what.

I don't get your back reading comment? Who is it referring to?

Damn straight its a scum read.

The back reading is about Woody.

You didn't comment on the main part of what I wrote. According to your value system, woody was scummy for not being aware of what happened in the game for a lack of back reading. That would make redFF's L-1 vote on Woody (where he didn't even know it was L-1, it could have been L-0) even scummier. You've clearly been pushing for a Woody lynch, yet redFF does something scummier and it hardly pinged your radar.

Town would go with their strongest scum read. One way of catching scum is observing when they don't play consistently.

[Doctor Who]

I would like everybody in their next post to give their thoughts on Banakai. Multiple sentences are preferred.

I don't think I ever got an answer to this from Banakai. Frankly, I asked since it reeked of scum using WIFOM.

@Banakai, what did redFF specifically do in his eight posts before 195 that made you think he is town?

I find it hypocritical (therefore scummy) for someone to say someone is is scummy for doing X when they too are doing X.

VOTE: red ff ya I know I called him town

Maybe lazy wasn't the right word but mist of his posts are bandwagons/obvious things/low effort, especially recent ones. And his tone is just kind of suspicious

Up to this point, Banakai could use this reasoning to vote for himself. Timing is interesting as it happened just after two votes on Vinkah.

I think he's scum.

[Doctor Who]

kmd scores townpoints because he's the first to point it out, and the "lol" he is referring to was from redFF regarding woody's claim. The double lol makes me think that redFF is scum and in reality loves that the town is already claiming.

I don't follow. Then why put yourself out there?

Interesting that
1) you go out of your way to identify the only two possibilities for absta (not rocket science)
2) you list him as ww first (people generally put their best guess first)
3)"Instead of the latter" - the latter as you stated is town, so you essentially wrote "Instead of town, I believe him to be town"

I"m not sure what to make of it.

I liked this post until the last sentence. I'm assuming you're thinking scum, but why do you not state that?

---

Can you please be more specific on your first question? KMD had noticed something first that I didn't see when I read it at all. I read right through the lols. I thought KMD as town had more motivation for bringing it up than KMD as scum. Does that help?

As for the "I'm not sure what to make of it", you are correct that I was leaning scum, but it also occured to me that it could just be someone that confused former and latter. I asked since it was a lead, and thought that I'd get a better answer if it wasn't accusatory.

[Doctor Who]

So doctor... Your thoughts on red analysis and reads?

red who?

[Doctor Who]

Where does that lead you?

It leads me to wait for Tony to repond.

[Doctor Who]

dont see how my l-1 vote on ww was scummy, i unvoted as soon as i realized

also i re-evaluated the slot after his replace out because i thought it was a childish and idiotic and selfish and bad player thing to do, which meant me reconsider my scumread as just village idiot town, i gotta check your iso out dr who but u taking so long to catch up isn't too great tbh

I'm just about caught up now.

I've played on another site where scum will come in and vote and plead ignorance to the vote count. To me, it is always scummy.

I appreciate the re-evaluation, and your posts since the vote then have struck me as pro-town.

My main issue with the whole thing now is how hard BBT rode Woody, but given another example of not knowing the situation (your woody vote) BBT didn't go nearly as hard on you. Does this part make sense to you? Town BBT has to lynch all of the scum, but scum-BBT just needs to lynch one townie a day.

[Doctor Who]

I am caught up! I'll post my suspect list after a break and I get a chance to ISO.

Assuming this is correct, there are three folks sitting on wagons of one or none. Care to get behind a wagon? That is Zoronos only vote the whole game, he needs to participate more. For all of the BBT / Boonskiies talk, I don't think anyone has outright stated the possibility that both are scum. Keyser has been pretty vocal the whole game, I'm surprised his vote isn't parked on someone.

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 710
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Banakai_____________4______Haschel Cedricson (502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710)
Boonskiies__________4______absta101 (422), Banakai (472), TonyMontana (533), Kmd4390 (592)
BlueBloodedToffee___2______Doctor Who (650), redFF (681)
absta101____________1______Zoronos (102)
TonyMontana_________1______BlueBloodedToffee (581)
unvote______________1______Keyser Söze (510)

[Doctor Who]

Redff, how do you distinguish from childish idiotic selfish bad VI town and childish idiotic selfish bad VI scum?

Doctor Who, do you think Boon and BBT are scum together? If not, what was the purpose of that statement?

I agree with Doctor Who and absta that people should pick a wagon.

Currently I've got Null on Boon's slot, and scum on BBT's. It seemed to me that there was a lot of discussion about if one of them was scum, but not both. I'm into numbers, and just wanted to make sure all of the possibilities are considered.

[Doctor Who]

There's plenty of time left to start a new wagon absta (and BBT), especially considering you helped got one to L-1 within about 9 hours of the start of the game on Woody.

I'm willing to go with VOTE: absta101. I'd rather see BBT hang, but I was the only one on his wagon.

Absta put a pretty scummy vote on me earlier today.

Alright good stuff.
VOTE: Woody

Here is the wagon that got to L-1 on me. This early in the game I can't help but think it was loaded with scum. My favorite part was when rediff cast the L-1 vote. I'm anxious to see if BBT gets in his grill for not paying attention. He hasn't posted yet in my read through after these happened.

At least everyone has shown up now.

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is ?EST; updated through post 175
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
WoodyWoodpecker_____6______Vinkah (9), BlueBloodedToffee (66), Keyser Söze (72),

absta101 (132)

, Bulbazoor (138), redff (168)
no vote_____________2______Banakai, RedCoyote
absta101____________1______Zoronos (102)
BlueBloodedToffee___1______Kmd4390 (144)
Haschel Cedricson___1______WoodyWoodpecker (51)
Kmd4390_____________1______TonyMontana (13)
unvote______________1______Haschel Cedricson (76)

An absta or Bulb lynch would clear settle this, Bulb did say that he confused the order in which he wrote it.

gree. I have no tolerance for players like he is playing in this game. Absta is ww or town. Instead of the latter, I believe him to he town because of the linez of thinking he posts. The conversation with kmd was fishy but It does not prove his alignment to be

Interesting that
1) you go out of your way to identify the only two possibilities for absta (not rocket science)
2) you list him as ww first (people generally put their best guess first)
3)"Instead of the latter" - the latter as you stated is town, so you essentially wrote "Instead of town, I believe him to be town"

I"m not sure what to make of it.

Finally, it seemed like he started off acting like town in his first sentence, but in his second sentence I believe he identifies himself as scum. Why complain about making the game harder for

everyone else

(as in not town) if he is town? I don't believe I got a response to my question either.

You should realise by spamming all these small posts you are hurting town. It makes the game harder to follow for everyone else.

Boonskiies is hurting town, but then who are the "everyone else" in your second sentence?

[Doctor Who]

I believe this is current:

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 808
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Banakai_____________5______Haschel Cedricson (502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (788)
absta101____________4______Zoronos (102), redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
Boonskiies__________4______absta101 (422), Banakai (472), TonyMontana (533), Kmd4390 (592)

___

And here is the prior Absta wagon that got to L-2. kmd, boon, and BBT were on your wagon before (as someone previously noted, BBT's vote seemed to come off absta rather quickly) and not on it now. I'd say there is a decent chance now you are today's lynch.

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 564
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
absta101____________5______Zoronos (102), Kmd4390 (175), Boonskiies (485), redff (531), BlueBloodedToffee (564)
Boonskiies__________3______absta101 (422), Banakai (472), TonyMontana (533)
unvote______________2______Bulbazoor (301), Keyser Söze (510)
Banakai_____________1______Haschel Cedricson (502)
Bulbazoor___________1______Doctor Who (169)
no vote_____________1______RedCoyote

@absta

- who are your top three suspects and why?

[Doctor Who]

So doctor... Your thoughts on red analysis and reads?

red who?

SorrynI meant coyote

Working on my thoughts on everyone.

[Doctor Who]

pre-emptive prod dodge, dealing with sick kids tonight

[Doctor Who]

Quick post from work - looks like it is coming down to Bana and Boon.

Before the day is up, it would be great if everyone posted a summary of their reads and reasons on everyone, or at a minimum their top three scum reads plus Bana and Boon if they aren't your read. Odds are a townie is going to die tonight - having the benefit of clear, consise pro-town reads that allows the town to track over time is extremely helpful. Once a scum is nabbed, it helps to hunt the other scum.

I know it isn't usually done this way on MS, but it really helps.

I'll have mine up within 7 hours.

[Doctor Who]

It is day 1. I calls them as I sees them. I posted my reasons when I voted you.

@Doctor

Finally, it seemed like he started off acting like town in his first sentence, but in his second sentence I believe he identifies himself as scum. Why complain about making the game harder for everyone else (as in not town) if he is town? I don't believe I got a response to my question either.

Really, Is this what you are going for?
"It makes the game harder for everyone else" literally means it makes the game harder for everyone to follow (other than the person spamming the thread). How would you even think this is a scum-slip? You are obviously making up these shit reasons just so you can park your vote on me.

Absta put a pretty scummy vote on me earlier today.

Why was it scummy? You can't just quote my vote and call it scummy...
Look how much sense this makes:

I'm willing to go with VOTE: absta101

Doctor put a pretty scummy vote on me earlier today.

Here is why you voted me as Woody.

I'd say the most scummy thing about Woody is that all he has been doing is defending himself rather than trying to find scum.

It's early

Not a great excuse; there's enough content and a lot of us have already started scum-hunting.

Alright good stuff.
VOTE: Woody

Tell me, how is that scumhunting? Voting <> scum hunting. You threw your vote on the wagon all willy nilly. Let us also not forget the game thread was only open for a few hours at the time.

Up to this point, you wanted the credit for scumhunting when you did no such thing.

[Doctor Who]

@absta - who are your top three suspects and why?

Nothing has changed other than your slot looking scummy again. Your reason for voting me doesn't seem genuine at all.

Not willing to leave a trail when you are one of the three possible lynches. Noted.

[Doctor Who]

What bad thing did tony do?

This is what I have on Tony.

Three posts in sequence from Tony's ISO

Having been away for a few years, I might ask about certain lingo.

For starters, i understand what a Pedit is, but why is it called that?

Hey, sorry for the slow start, busy weekend, reading up now.

In defense of me posting elsewhere, thats only low-effort phone-posting in a game near end-game which didnt require much of me.

17 minutes between these two posts, and based on when you posted you went from page 2 (post 26) to page 15. Frankly, when someone is able to catch up so quickly it makes me think they are scum since they already know who their buddies are and they just need to bandwagon a townie and make sure one of their scumbuddies doesn't get lynched.

Up to page 15 note:
Boonski has been making a lot of posts, yet have been saying little of note.

[Doctor Who]

I have basically no opinion about Banakai. He doesn't have a ton of content, is a null and I haven't had time to work on sorting him.

Hoping this changes. You really should have a read on someone when they're one of the leading wagons, and if you don't, you should probably do something about that.

The above is the reason I discarded the case. It was not a good case in the first place. Also you seem to be selectively reading my posts, as I also mentioned what I meant by the last quote. At the time of making the case I wouldn't call myself passionate. Afterwatds and looking back at it only then could you call it "passionate". When I made the case I wasn't even sure who I wanted to vote.

But this isn't what you said when you discarded it. You said that Boon had made himself so obviously scum that you felt like you didn't need to post your case. Which is radically different from what you're now claiming.

BBT is striking me as super over the top in his agressiveness, and his attempts to instill himself as the town 'leader' feel like a way to suppress dissenting opinion. he just seems to be a control freak who thinks he's better than the rest of us tbh

You're scum reading me based on play-style and you should stop doing that.

So you started a BS wagon on me because you didn't know it was an open setup!?!?

No...where the hell did you get that from?

Zoro is busy looking for associative tells on D1, which is kind of fake scumhunting, imo. Further, I think his points against redFF are lazy and uninspired.

I'm not seeing this at all RC; can you expand on it? I don't get your town read on the redff slot.

I had the name wrong, it wasn't

R

C it was the

H

C wagon. This is the post.

they're not paying attention to. For example, should we lynch Haschel at any point and he flips scum, I will look back at RVS and be

Wow, what a great way to misrep somebody by completely taking their post out of context. Keyser asked me what I thought it could mean, I answered by providing an example.

I was thinking you were suffering from some serious conf bias on my slot but I'm really starting to doubt that now.

1) The case against Woody was based on him not backreading before posting, which you yourself have noted isn't scummy anymore. It ended up being a wagon that just let the scum know a claim.
2) The flurry of votes that it picked up, again for no good reason.
3) The accidental L-1 vote, it could have been a hammer had there been another vote
4) That all this happened by post 168 - how much info was out there by then? How many people hadn't posted anything of substance? Scum would have loved a Day 1 mislynch with the town having almost nothing to go on.

This isn't rocket science BBT.

OK, so I asked you about the

timing

of the wagon and you go ahead and give me your

analysis

of the wagon which in no way answers my question. I mean, I guess *4* answers the question but the obvious flip-side is that if the wagon was picking up steam and it was town who was jumping on; why would scum feel the need to get involved?

Fast moving early wagons are generally not considered pro-town so it's dangerous for scum to hop on, especially if they don't have sound reasoning. So, yeah, I don't get your timing comment at all.

You didn't comment on the main part of what I wrote. According to your value system, woody was scummy for not being aware of what happened in the game for a lack of back reading. That would make redFF's L-1 vote on Woody (where he didn't even know it was L-1, it could have been L-0) even scummier. You've clearly been pushing for a Woody lynch, yet redFF does something scummier and it hardly pinged your radar.

Town would go with their strongest scum read. One way of catching scum is observing when they don't play consistently.

It would seem the majority of your read on me is based on the assumption that Redff is scum; which I'm sure I don't need to tell you is a horrible way to scum hunt. Especially if you're going to try and lynch me first based off of it.

I grow ever more weary of you BBT.

1) Wall posts that are really hard to break apart. Hey, look at me, I'm doing stuff! I ask questions! I love wagons!
2) Spamming the thread.
3) Being too lazy to look stuff on your own. Demanding others do it for you.
4) Not remembering what you said.
5) Putting your own words into other people's mouths. Repeatedly.

I would lynch you in a heartbeat.

In short, I'm human. I confused two players who had similar initials. It happens. At least I knew it was an open game! You rode Woody until someone pointed out it was an open setup (to which your first response was 'it's not open'). I think you realized the town wasn't following you on Woody, so you made up a quick excuse to jump on other players in order to attempt more claims.

Oh no, you asked me a question about timing and I gave you information about the timing and provided analysis! I must be scum!

My scumread on you has nothing to do with redFF, but keep on puttting your own scummy spin on things.

[Doctor Who]

Anyone else want to lynch BBT? He's the main reson this game is already 38 pages.

There is a really good chance he's scum, plus he has the most posts in the thread.

[Doctor Who]

I'll note that you didn't deny being hypocritial, just that being a hypocrite is not scummy. What is it then, pro-town? Anti-town?

Let me break out the sock puppets.

1) Not backreading before posting has nothing to do with alignment. You rode Woody long and hard for it.

2) Coming in with a "oops, I didn't know that was an L-1" vote is scummy. You merely stated your displeasure with this.

Your reaction to #2 was no where near your reaction to #1. Had you been playing consistently, you would have been all over redFF like you were with Woody.

I think you are trying to push easy wagons instead of genuinely scum hunting.

I find it hypocritical (therefore scummy) for someone to say someone is is scummy for doing X when they too are doing X.

Being a hypocrite is not scummy.

My main issue with the whole thing now is how hard BBT rode Woody, but given another example of not knowing the situation (your woody vote) BBT didn't go nearly as hard on you. Does this part make sense to you? Town BBT has to lynch all of the scum, but scum-BBT just needs to lynch one townie a day.

OK, so why doesn't scum!BBT push Redff's 'obviously bad vote'. That would have been a pretty easy push for me to make, no?

Like, I thought your whole 'BBT is scum for ignoring Redff's awful vote on Woody' was based on Redff being scum. Now it seems you have no explanation other than it was scummy of me to ignore such an obviously bad vote even though you think the vote come from town.

Can you clarify? What are my scum motivations for ignoring the vote?

the boonskies wagon is terrible and has scummy looking players on it

This.

I'm gonna do a bunch of reading, look at this banakai wagon

Speaking of reviewing wagons, how did your review of the Absta wagon go?

I find it scummy how you are trying to create a counter wagon this close to the deadline.

What is scummy about trying to start a new wagon?

cause scum aint that obviously bad, it's been a while since ive looked at woody's posts tho id have to go check to give you examples

Well, that's just an awful reason to start town reading someone. Sometimes, scum are just bad.
#

Something which unnerves me, was BlueBloodedToffee's vote and unvote on absta101. He is now emphasing that we have enough to go on for D1 and is happy to jump on one of the leading wagons (personally, I think he has concentrated more on absta101, TonyMontana and redFF):

Is anyone arguing against this? I don't know why you have posted that; it's quite obvious who I have spent the day focusing on.

Uncomfortable zone:
Bulbazoor
Boonskiies
BlueBloodedToffee

Uncomfortable zone:
Banakai
Tony Montana
absta101

Even though I believe a Boonskiies flip would tell us alot about other players, I do not want to lynch a player I town-lean (weak) read. But I would prefer a Boonskiies/Banakai lynch than a no lynch. I currently do not like the Banakai lynch because I fear possible opportunistic scum-play by BlueBloodedToffee and absta101.

Couple of things;

Can you clarify the 'uncomfortable zone'? I interpreted it as 'lean scum' and 'scum reading' sections but I'm obviously wrong if you're weak town reading Boon. This is far too ambiguous. Secondly, it would appear I can change the titles of your 'reads' to 'In no danger of getting lynched Today' and 'Possibility of getting lynched Today.'

I'm willing to go with VOTE: absta101. I'd rather see BBT hang, but I was the only one on his wagon.

If there was an example in a dictionary of an opportunistic vote; this would be it.

The ONLY mention of Absta in your ISO before this vote is the sentence where you're accusing him of scum slipping, which quite frankly, is absurd. I see nothing wrong with that sentence.

You have then

added

reasoning onto your read in order to try and justify it. I'm back to thinking this slot is scum.

IMO, TonyMontana has got to catch-up with the thread first ,

then

we smash his back doors in

Except for he could be lurking

because

he is drawing no attention?

[Doctor Who]

I neglected to respond to my absta vote. So what if there was not much of a mention in it in my ISO? I presented multiple reasons in my post for the vote. I justified my vote.

[Doctor Who]

feel like people aren't even reading my posts.

This game is really fucking me off at the minute.

Let's all feel sorry for BBT now.

Cry me a river.

You reap what you sow.

[Doctor Who]

Why are you quoting me for?

Also of course the Doctor who vote on me is opportunistic. Just LOOK AT IT. Look at his reasons for voting me.
Look at my response to his vote on me. I go over why it's bad.

Doctor Who - you slipped.

Absta - I did not slip. Ignore my howling at the moon.

We'll see after you flip.

[Doctor Who]

Doctor Who - town. If you want to check my role PM, my password is "gullible".

Keyser Söze - likely town. Although he suppored the terrible Woody wagon, I've found that since then he has made good points and cases in his ISO. He is leaving a trail. Has voted for 5 different players.
Vote Post
Haschel Cedricson 15
Boonskiies 21
Doctor Who 72
unvote 207
Boonskiies 314
RedCoyote 363
unvote 510
absta101 805

Bulbazoor - likely scum. weird former/latter thing with absta, on the woody wagon. His cases would carry more weight if he quoted posts instead of referencing them, often several at a time. Other posts tend to be one liners. Has only voted DW and Banakai (he did make a case on this), but I haven't seen much scum hunting. Not leaving much of a voting trail.
Doctor Who 138
unvote 301
Banakai 702


TonyMontana - likely scum. I already pointed out how it was unusual how quickly he could catch up as town. Only 14 posts, hardly any trail. He should be lynched Day 2 if this doesn't improve.
RedCoyote 13
Kmd4390 13
Boonskiies 533
BlueBloodedToffee 839
Boonskiies 839


Kmd4390 - tendency to be insightful, I'm surprised by his low post count. Having a life doesn't make one scum. Did respond to my request to go on record about everyone. likely town.
BlueBloodedToffee 144
absta101 175
Boonskiies 592


BlueBloodedToffee - scummy mcscummerton. Has voted 6/13 (nearly half) of the players. Most of his votes support existing bandwagons.
RedCoyote 5
Haschel Cedricson 17
Doctor Who 66
RedCoyote 337
absta101 564
unvote 580
TonyMontana 581
Banakai 788
TonyMontana 854


absta101 - I believe he slipped. likely scum. Another low voter, but on the Woody Wagon (I contend without cause)
Haschel Cedricson 16
Doctor Who 132
Boonskiies 422


Banakai - unusual pronouncement that redFF is town (seemed like scum spreading WIFOM). Prefers Boon's lynch today, obviously. Really laying low vote wise. likely scum
redFF 317
Boonskiies 472


RedCoyote - null. someone else who needs to post more, although he is giving town/scum reads on all players. Hasn't done anything to ping my scumdar, but he is basically riding one vote. He voted for me first in the post, later for Banakai.
Doctor Who 649
Banakai 649


Zoronos - wish he'd be around more, tends to be insightful. Leaning town. No one has voted him the entire game.
absta101 102
TonyMontana 850


Haschel Cedricson - also insightful but left no vote out there for a really, really long time. Likely town.
Bulbazoor 11
unvote 76
Banakai 502


redFF - scummy L-1 vote, but since then has struck me as town. Likely town. Voted 5 players
Haschel Cedricson 32
Doctor Who 168
unvote 174
Boonskiies 316
unvote 333
Doctor Who 334
absta101 531
BlueBloodedToffee 681
absta101 790


Boonskiies - looney tunes. Really hard for me to read. Vinkah left nothing to go on either. Null.
Doctor Who 9
unvote 247
Keyser Söze 331
RedCoyote 365
absta101 459
Boonskiies 476
absta101 485
Banakai 710

___


so the theory of "scum want to out as many townies as possible" implicates those that vote often, including
Keyser
BBT
redFF
Boonskiies

Obviously there aren't four scum, but still.

___

The Woody wagon got to L-1. Both Banakai and Absta have gotten to L-2. That't three good wagons to analyze once flips start.

[Doctor Who]

bbt as a possible scumread i even pushed him earlier but whaddya gonna do we got less than 48 hours

Assuming neither of us gets lynched, at least one of us will be around tomorrow to be heard.

[Doctor Who]

Current situation

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 854
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Banakai_____________4______Haschel Cedricson (502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710)
Boonskiies__________4______absta101 (422), Banakai (472), Kmd4390 (592), TonyMontana (839)
absta101____________3______redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
TonyMontana_________2______Zoronos (850), BlueBloodedToffee (854)


Prior happenings

Alright, we still have 5 days but I think 32 pages for D1 is more than enough and nobody seems interested in Tony lurking out the whole of D1 so;

VOTE: Banakai

5 days is cutting it close and you know it. I highly doubt you'll find 7 people who want to lynch me above these other two in that time. I find it scummy how you are trying to create a counter wagon this close to the deadline.

Redff, why the change if vote?

cause i doubt ur getting lynched today tbh

You're right but why would you not want to push your top scum read and at least try?

Why jump ship to a more 'achievable' lynch?

VOTE: Tony

Absta is sticking to his vote, but BBT peeled off onto Tony when he was previously questioning if a Tony wagon was feasible. I'm not sure how less time makes a Tony wagon more feasible. BBT has also voted for Absta, so I'm not sure why he's dragging his feet on switching wagons.

[Doctor Who]

Most posts is not indicative of scum, but it does leave a big fat trail. It would also serve to reduce the reading going forward. I believe there have been a few comments that this game is longer than most.

[Doctor Who]

@everyone

If the seer knows a WW then the seer should wait and claim later today so that we have the benefit of more discussion.

I think the Angel should claim after we all discuss this.

Advantages
1) the role is vanilla now but we the town can still benefit
2) there is a WW counterclaim, then we guarantee that we lynch a WW today or tomorrow.
3) if there is no counterclaim, then there is confirmed town.
4) confirmed town reduces the lynch pool, making it more likely to lunch a WW.
5) the proper WW action tonight is to off the Angel, allowing the seer another night to investigate.
6) we'll know a lot more about the wagons from day 1.
7) prevents a WW from fake claiming angel later in the game.
8) I bet the WW didn't see this plan coming.


Disadvantages
1) the WW have a better idea who the seer is and could try to kill the seer tonight (but that leaves confirmed town around for another day, better WW lynch odds in day 3)
2) increases our odds of bandwagoning the seer.

What do you think? I think we should all voice an opinion on this before anyone claims.

[Doctor Who]

Red coyote, what do you think of my plan?

[Doctor Who]

VOTE: BBT
This is a good start.
I will come back to post more in depth in a few hours.

haschel was the obvious nightkill, not sure what angel was doing

im fine with lynching absta or bbt

What do you think of the plan?

[Doctor Who]

I agree with Absta. Boon is probably town now.

Doctor Who, no one should be claiming unless they have a guilty. If someone is the N1 Angel, and they claim, all it accomplishes is getting them NK'd tonight. Later on, scum have to either confirm that player as town or risk being lynched in a counterclaim. The best time is later on some time, not now. The only advantage you mention that makes it almost worth it is your point 5 that the seer won't get killed. Your two listed disadvantages kind of outweigh that too. I'll say this much. If I'm the Angel, I'm not claiming it today unless I'm about to be lynched.

When I have some time, I want to ISO redff and Zoro. I was reading what I missed over night and they stood out as possible Ban buddies.

Suppose the concensus is that the angel should claim. Angel claims. Every other player then states they are not the Angel or we get the counterclaim. It leaves nothing open for the scum to fake claim after that.

even if we lynch WW, there will still be a dead townie tomorrow am. Why not make sure it is a vanilla townie?

Random lynching gives us a 2/11 chance of lynching scum, with an angel uncountered it goes to 2/10. With a counter it is 50/50.

It really forces the WW to lynch confirmed town, giving the seer another go without being killed.

[Doctor Who]

Current situation

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 854
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Banakai_____________4______Haschel Cedricson (502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710)
Boonskiies__________4______absta101 (422), Banakai (472), Kmd4390 (592), TonyMontana (839)
absta101____________3______redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
TonyMontana_________2______Zoronos (850), BlueBloodedToffee (854)


Prior happenings

Alright, we still have 5 days but I think 32 pages for D1 is more than enough and nobody seems interested in Tony lurking out the whole of D1 so;

VOTE: Banakai

5 days is cutting it close and you know it. I highly doubt you'll find 7 people who want to lynch me above these other two in that time. I find it scummy how you are trying to create a counter wagon this close to the deadline.

Redff, why the change if vote?

cause i doubt ur getting lynched today tbh

You're right but why would you not want to push your top scum read and at least try?

Why jump ship to a more 'achievable' lynch?

VOTE: Tony

Absta is sticking to his vote, but BBT peeled off onto Tony when he was previously questioning if a Tony wagon was feasible. I'm not sure how less time makes a Tony wagon more feasible. BBT has also voted for Absta, so I'm not sure why he's dragging his feet on switching wagons.

VOTE: Banakai

I'm updating my spreadsheet with the last votes, and wanted to point out how BBT was all "we don't have enough time for another wagon" and then found it in his heart to start a Tony wagon but then came back on to Banakai when called about it.

[Doctor Who]

Alright, Boon is likely-town due to that flip on Banakai.

You and Keyser have both made this statement up to this point.

@absta and @keyser

- what makes you think that Boon is likely town given the Banakai flip? Admittedly, I'm having a hard time reading Boon so I am interested in your thoughts.

[Doctor Who]

The Angel Plan

For (4)

Doctor Who 976
Bulb 977
RedCoyote 981
Zoronos 986

Against (4)

Kmd 985, 996
redFF 992
Keyser 993
BBT 1007

No comment (3)

Boonskiies
Tony
Absta

Waiting to hear from the final three.

I'd also like to point out that if the Angel claims, it reduces the pool of WW for the Seer to look through. It also ensures that the Seer doesn't investigate someone that gets NK'd (since the Seer wouldn't investigate the Angel).

[Doctor Who]

There were four wagons on Day 1 that got to L-2 or higher. Here they are in order.

Wagon 1

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 168
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Doctor Who__________6______Boonskiies (9), BlueBloodedToffee (66), Keyser Söze (72), absta101 (132), Bulbazoor (138), redff (168)
no vote_____________2______

Banakai

, RedCoyote
absta101____________1______Zoronos (102)
BlueBloodedToffee___1______Kmd4390 (144)
Haschel Cedricson___1______Doctor Who (51)
Kmd4390_____________1______TonyMontana (13)
unvote______________1______

Haschel Cedricson

(76)

Wagon 2

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 564
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
absta101____________5______Zoronos (102), Kmd4390 (175), Boonskiies (485), redff (531), BlueBloodedToffee (564)
Boonskiies__________3______absta101 (422),

Banakai

(472), TonyMontana (533)
unvote______________2______Bulbazoor (301), Keyser Söze (510)

Banakai

_____________1______

Haschel Cedricson

(502)
Bulbazoor___________1______Doctor Who (169)
no vote_____________1______RedCoyote

Wagon 3

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 788
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

Banakai

_____________5______

Haschel Cedricson

(502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (788)
Boonskiies__________4______absta101 (422),

Banakai

(472), TonyMontana (533), Kmd4390 (592)
BlueBloodedToffee___2______Doctor Who (650), redFF (681)
absta101____________1______Zoronos (102)
unvote______________1______Keyser Söze (510)

Wagon 4

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 964
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

Banakai

_____________7______

Haschel Cedricson

(502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (940), absta101 (941),

Banakai

(964)
absta101____________3______redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
Boonskiies__________2______Kmd4390 (592), TonyMontana (839)
TonyMontana_________1______Zoronos (850)


___

I'll keep my commentary below the wagons, as I intend to add to them and update colors as we learn more (would be nice to color the angel blue).

___

The

first wagon

formed quickly, within hours of when the game started. Banakai indicates his approval in his first post of the game (after the wagon fell apart). Note how Banakai addresses BBT from the scum standpoint, not the town standpoint. I contend there is at least one scum on it, if not two.

I AM HERE

I read things; I have 2 questions for players

Woody: would you care to explain why you are playing so defensive? As a town usually you just have to accept that one of you are gonna die day 1 probbably, and just try and get as much information as possible even when being voted. I believe you are either scum, or at least very bad at being town. Also your name can be abbreviated to WW which can mean werewolf. Confirmed.


BBT: Do you think there would be any motivation in this game for a scum to tunnel on Woody like you are now?


Kind of hard to tell about other players since they are mostly spectating and gathering facts, with the exception of people who have already taken the side of Woody acting scum-like which I agree with.

The

second wagon

, like the first, also had BBT, redff, and Boon. Banakai put a solo vote out there on red ff, before joining the boon wagon. His only other vote day 1 was to self-hammer.

VOTE: red ff ya I know I called him town

VOTE: Boon

I bought idiot town for woody, but I have a hard time believing this slot was simply idiot town twice. Also not much point for me to be on a wagon nobody is helping with. I still suspect red ff.

Boons posts especially look more like scum than idiot town.

I will post more about him in a little bit

Absta was ready to claim, but to BBT's credit he told him the situation was L-2.

Thats L-1 btw, tell me when you want my claim.

It's L-2.

But doesn't that bring attention to yourself? Why would you do that as scum?

The

third wagon

is on scum, with one confirmed town on it. The

fourth wagon

was the lynch, and the first 4 votes are the same, BBT's 5th vote had moved to Tony before going back to Banakai when I called him out on it. Absta and Banakai moved the wagon to a lynch.

I think it's fair to say there are at least two scum on the lynch wagon (Banakai being one of them). The first four votes come off as town since if they were scum they could have peeled off, which makes what BBT did look like he was trying to move to a counter wagon. BBT couldn't vote Boon after saying how he was playing town, so he did what he could in trying starting another bandwagon.

I want to look at the players history next. Had absta shown a willingness to lynch Banakai? Why did Banakai come in all "F" this?

[Doctor Who]

No roleclaims.

The two remaining werewolves should be left in the dark - their reactions and pushes for a miss-lynch are key.

The Night 1 Angel is of no threat to the werewolves now - a werewolf would not counter-claim a town PR either as this would line themselves up for a lynch.

Thus, we should not narrow down the town PR pool for the werewolves. Let's continue scum-hunting.

^Exactly! the night 1 angel is not a threat to the WW now, but by claiming it would make the angel a threat!

The angel neglected to protect HC, but we can almost guarantee the Angel helps the Seer live another night.

[Doctor Who]

Hmmm, Zoronos and BBT were the two that tried to start a counterwagon on Tony when Banakai was getting fitted for a noose.

I need to look into Zoronos more, as others have been.

It seems unlikely that both scum would try to do that to save their scumbuddy though.

VOTE: BBT

[Doctor Who]

I reread absta's points on Banakai, and I found sufficient merit for the vote.

Further, I recant my Absta is likely scum position. I have him as a mild town read now.

Spoiler: absta on Ban

God damn I had a case written for boon but he just made a case for himself

post it anyway.

Banakai's vote on Boon is quite bad. His case feels like he just made it after I asked him to post it anyway.
-

@Tony

- You give the impression that you think Boon could be anti-town which suggests he isn't a strong scum read to you. Do you have any other scum reads at the moment?

God damn I had a case written for boon but he just made a case for himself

This post makes no sense coming from town and I asked him to post his case anyway to see if he really did make one. Like I said after he posted his case, it looked quite rushed (like he just made it after I asked him to post it).

Also I'm fucking confused who I should be voting.

This quote doesn't make sense considering Banakai just said that Boon played so scummy that he (Banakai) didn't even bother finishing/posting his case on him.

Post #690 is interesting. I don't see why town-Banakai wouldn't just link back to the case he made on Boon earlier. I mean, he told HC that he had already given reasons for why he thought Boon was scum so this new version of the same case just looks like he is trying to make sure he looks town to HC. Not really a strong point, this could easily just be play style or personality but, as town, I definitely wouldn't have posted the same case twice just because someone got mad and told me to.

I'd hardly call my read passionate/determined when haschel basically

forced me to make a case

You already made a case before HC asked you to.

I'm fine with lynching either Boon or Banakai and we only have a few days left to decide. The people on the smaller wagons should migrate at this point.

5 days is cutting it close and you know it. I highly doubt you'll find 7 people who want to lynch me above these other two in that time. I find it scummy how you are trying to create a counter wagon this close to the deadline.

I'm going to join the Banakai wagon unless someone joins the Boon wagon in a few hours.

Just vote Boon or banakai. We don't have much time.

This is fucked, i'll vote banakai if he gets one more vote. I just think Boon is the best lynch out of the two. Also, like Kmd said, Banakai hasn't claimed, if he is a PR or claims PR as scum, what can we do?
Chances are, Boon is scum; most of the town reads i've seen on him are due to him being "too scummy to be scum", we all know that's a terrible reason to call someone town so just lynch it already.

VOTE: Banakai
As promised. He is L-2 now I think.

[Doctor Who]

Regarding my 928, re-read it with the knowledge that 1-5 are not accusations of scumminess, but rather how you suck the fun out of the game. You are twisting my words (again) into saying this has to do with scumminess.

As for 929, since I think you're scum I'm interested in seeing who else thinks so since it was obvious you weren't getting lynched yesterday. If anyone says they are willing to lynch you and then backs down then it gets interesting.


I didn't ignore your 852, they were addressed in 930 Thanks for yet another false accusation. Let me elaborate on 930 though,

scum pushing for a mislynch would push a lot harder on the townie (me) at L-1, than they would on someone else who didn't even have a single vote on them (redFF)

.

Alright, couple of things outstanding from D1 before I get into D2;

I grow ever more weary of you BBT.

1) Wall posts that are really hard to break apart. Hey, look at me, I'm doing stuff! I ask questions! I love wagons!
2) Spamming the thread.
3) Being too lazy to look stuff on your own. Demanding others do it for you.
4) Not remembering what you said.
5) Putting your own words into other people's mouths. Repeatedly.

My scumread on you has nothing to do with redFF, but keep on puttting your own scummy spin on things.

1) You're saying wall posts are scummy...wow. Firstly, you're wall posting all over the place. Secondly, wall posting is not scummy, never has been scummy and never will be scummy.
2) I'm not spamming the thread. Even if I was spamming the thread; how is that scummy?
3) What am I demanding people do? Again, how is being lazy (I'm not) alignment indicative?
4) How is this scummy?
5) Where have I done this? (This is the only one that would even come close to being scummy)

Anyone else want to lynch BBT? He's the main reson this game is already 38 pages.

There is a really good chance he's scum, plus he has the most posts in the thread.

LOL. Like, that's all I can say to this post.

1) Not backreading before posting has nothing to do with alignment. You rode Woody long and hard for it.

2) Coming in with a "oops, I didn't know that was an L-1" vote is scummy. You merely stated your displeasure with this.

Your reaction to #2 was no where near your reaction to #1. Had you been playing consistently, you would have been all over redFF like you were with Woody.

I think you are trying to push easy wagons instead of genuinely scum hunting.

Wrong. I kept pushing Woody because I was dissatisfied with his response to my push.

Is there a reason you're ignoring my questions regarding me ignoring the redff vote?

Here, I'll post them again for you;

OK, so why doesn't scum!BBT push Redff's 'obviously bad vote'. That would have been a pretty easy push for me to make, no?

Like, I thought your whole 'BBT is scum for ignoring Redff's awful vote on Woody' was based on Redff being scum. Now it seems you have no explanation other than it was scummy of me to ignore such an obviously bad vote even though you think the vote come from town.

Can you clarify? What are my scum motivations for ignoring the vote?

[Doctor Who]

Banakai asked BBT about this in Banakai's first post, back when Woody was at L-1

I AM HERE

I read things; I have 2 questions for players

Woody: would you care to explain why you are playing so defensive? As a town usually you just have to accept that one of you are gonna die day 1 probbably, and just try and get as much information as possible even when being voted. I believe you are either scum, or at least very bad at being town. Also your name can be abbreviated to WW which can mean werewolf. Confirmed.


BBT: Do you think there would be any motivation in this game for a scum to tunnel on Woody like you are now?


Kind of hard to tell about other players since they are mostly spectating and gathering facts, with the exception of people who have already taken the side of Woody acting scum-like which I agree with.

No answer. Later Banakai rephrases the question from 186

Okay, I didn't see that post, but let me rephrase, do you think there would be any reason for a scum to tunnel on woody or join the bandwagon?

I really don't know why you're asking this and what the point of the question is.

Thats not an answer btw

It is phrased awkwardly, but 253 could be reasonably rephrased to "Would there be any reason for a scum to join the bandwagon?" (leaving out the tunnelling part).

I wonder if Banakai (confirmed scum) was asking BBT if it was alright to hammer Woody in 186?

Assuming this is the case, it begs the question of why would Banakai ask BBT? Was there some history between the two? Could it be that the third scum wasn't on the Woody Wagon?

[Doctor Who]

Dr. - When I was reading your posts originally, I thought those first five points were intended parts of a scum case. Your post wasn't super clear.

Sorry it wasn't clearer, it did start with "I grow ever more weary of you BBT." not "these are reasons you are scummy".

[Doctor Who]

i think ive been pretty clear

I thought it was pretty obvious why we're voting Absta. He was obviously busing at the end of the banakai wagon. The wagons formed before banakai got wagon'd were Absta and Myself, but Banakai tried to get people off of Absta and onto me, but it backfired and went onto banakai. Banakai was trying to change the wagon off his partner. Simple.

Boon, I'm having a hard time reading you. Can you add some details behind your assertion that Absta was bussing at the end of the Banakai wagon? I looked up absta myself thinking that could be the case, but found Absta had been pretty vocal on Banakai prior to that.

Furhter, could you please compare Absta bussing vs. BBT bussing? BBT had put Banakai to L-2, then tried to start a counter wagon on Tony. BBT threw his vote back onto Banakai after being called on it. BBT had been saying that you were town, so he couldn't move his vote onto you.

Here is what I saw when I ISO'd Absta.

I reread absta's points on Banakai, and I found sufficient merit for the vote.

Further, I recant my Absta is likely scum position. I have him as a mild town read now.

Spoiler: absta on Ban

God damn I had a case written for boon but he just made a case for himself

post it anyway.

Banakai's vote on Boon is quite bad. His case feels like he just made it after I asked him to post it anyway.
-

@Tony

- You give the impression that you think Boon could be anti-town which suggests he isn't a strong scum read to you. Do you have any other scum reads at the moment?

God damn I had a case written for boon but he just made a case for himself

This post makes no sense coming from town and I asked him to post his case anyway to see if he really did make one. Like I said after he posted his case, it looked quite rushed (like he just made it after I asked him to post it).

Also I'm fucking confused who I should be voting.

This quote doesn't make sense considering Banakai just said that Boon played so scummy that he (Banakai) didn't even bother finishing/posting his case on him.

Post #690 is interesting. I don't see why town-Banakai wouldn't just link back to the case he made on Boon earlier. I mean, he told HC that he had already given reasons for why he thought Boon was scum so this new version of the same case just looks like he is trying to make sure he looks town to HC. Not really a strong point, this could easily just be play style or personality but, as town, I definitely wouldn't have posted the same case twice just because someone got mad and told me to.

I'd hardly call my read passionate/determined when haschel basically

forced me to make a case

You already made a case before HC asked you to.

I'm fine with lynching either Boon or Banakai and we only have a few days left to decide. The people on the smaller wagons should migrate at this point.

5 days is cutting it close and you know it. I highly doubt you'll find 7 people who want to lynch me above these other two in that time. I find it scummy how you are trying to create a counter wagon this close to the deadline.

I'm going to join the Banakai wagon unless someone joins the Boon wagon in a few hours.

Just vote Boon or banakai. We don't have much time.

This is fucked, i'll vote banakai if he gets one more vote. I just think Boon is the best lynch out of the two. Also, like Kmd said, Banakai hasn't claimed, if he is a PR or claims PR as scum, what can we do?
Chances are, Boon is scum; most of the town reads i've seen on him are due to him being "too scummy to be scum", we all know that's a terrible reason to call someone town so just lynch it already.

VOTE: Banakai
As promised. He is L-2 now I think.

[Doctor Who]

Who, why couldn't I vote Absta?

Are you saying I presented no opinions that Banakai was scummy?

Where did I say that you can't vote Absta? I did say that you couldn't vote Boon beause you had town read him so you couldn't switch to the other leading bandwagon at the end of Day 1. In order to save your scumbuddy Banakai, you tried to get a new wagon on Tony.

Where did I say that you presented no opinions about Banakai?

[Doctor Who]

Well you're trying to present the scenario that I had no other options and I was forced to bus my buddy Banakai. I'm asking you, as scum, why would I not just join the Absta wagon? It was also a leading wagon.

Well, you're saying Absta isn't scum because he was vocal about Banakai. I'm saying I was doing the same thing - what's the difference?

The initial Ban wagon got up to 5 votes with BBT being the fifth by post 788. When voting, you made a point to start to end the game Day with 5 real days left. I think you wanted to give Ban enough time to claim he was the Seer.

Alright, we still have 5 days but I think 32 pages for D1 is more than enough and nobody seems interested in Tony lurking out the whole of D1 so;

VOTE: Banakai

By the time BBT voted Tony in 854 (unvoting Ban), Ban had 4 and Absta had 3.

Time and posts pass, and the next vote is in 940 where BBT puts Ban back to 5. Unless there is something to the contrary after post 854 where bbt had shown a willingness to vote Ban, BBTs vote was clearly going to go to Ban. To do so otherwise would have raised suspicion, particularly after I called you out in 938. I ISO'd you after your Tony vote, and you were really pushing hard for a wagon on him. I saw no mention of Absta, but if I missed it please point it out.

[Doctor Who]

It is phrased awkwardly, but 253 could be reasonably rephrased to "Would there be any reason for a scum to join the bandwagon?" (leaving out the tunnelling part).

I wonder if Banakai (confirmed scum) was asking BBT if it was alright to hammer Woody in 186?

Assuming this is the case, it begs the question of why would Banakai ask BBT? Was there some history between the two? Could it be that the third scum wasn't on the Woody Wagon?

Personally, my read on that interaction is that Banakai was looking to hammer and wanted to blame a mislynch on BBT.

(I've been thinking BBT is town this game, so that certainly colors my perception of events)

Where did I say that you can't vote Absta? I did say that you couldn't vote Boon beause you had town read him so you couldn't switch to the other leading bandwagon at the end of Day 1. In order to save your scumbuddy Banakai, you tried to get a new wagon on Tony.

I'm not sure I'm following your thought process here; are you positing a scum team of Absta / BBT / Banakai?

I'm a bit lost on the logic.

I think BBT and Ban are scum, I recently posted how I no longer thought Absta was scum.

I think he's been taking an emotion influenced read on your play. I don't think that makes him scum in this case; he's obviously disagrees with you on a playstyle level. imo, I think he's town making a bad case at the moment, among other reasons, because Banakai's first post was a pressure ratchet on Woody / Who.

What has BBT done to make you think he's town?

Psst - I'll let you in on a secret. I've played as scum with BBT before (and we won). This isn't about emotion or playstyle.

[Doctor Who]

Three posts in sequence from Tony's ISO

Having been away for a few years, I might ask about certain lingo.

For starters, i understand what a Pedit is, but why is it called that?

Hey, sorry for the slow start, busy weekend, reading up now.

In defense of me posting elsewhere, thats only low-effort phone-posting in a game near end-game which didnt require much of me.

17 minutes between these two posts, and based on when you posted you went from page 2 (post 26) to page 15. Frankly, when someone is able to catch up so quickly it makes me think they are scum since they already know who their buddies are and they just need to bandwagon a townie and make sure one of their scumbuddies doesn't get lynched.

Up to page 15 note:
Boonski has been making a lot of posts, yet have been saying little of note.

Tony, I don't believe that you ever commented on this. How were you able to catch up so quickly?

[Doctor Who]

Going through Banakai's 44 posts:

....

Keyser, do you think that Banakai was pissed at his scumbuddies when he did this? That's the impression I got.

Fuck this shit VOTE: Banakai

[Doctor Who]

felt it was damage limitation. I knew he was confirmed scum when he was avoiding the thread at L-1, followed by his self-vote (classic defeated scum behaviour)

We know scum do not have day chat, so I can see your point of view (Banakai could have been genuinely frustrated - at himself and his teammates).

How did you know he was avoiding the thread?

I also meant to ask, what made you think to ask the mod if scum had daychat?

[Doctor Who]

Why are y'all assuming that TM wasn't catching up prior to 528? I mean, I'll let him speak for himself, but, like I was telling BBT yesterday, those posts don't bother me at all. Often times I start catching up, get bored, and make a post about either my status or something else midway through.

Why don't you allow Tony to speak for himself first before you jump in?

[Doctor Who]

In post 910, absta101 wrote:

This is fucked

, i'll vote banakai if he gets one more vote. I just think Boon is the best lynch out of the two. Also, like Kmd said,

Banakai hasn't claimed, if he is a PR or claims PR as scum, what can we do?

Chances are, Boon is scum; most of the town reads i've seen on him are due to him being "too scummy to be scum", we all know that's a terrible reason to call someone town so just lynch it already.


I don't get the frustration here - this post I could see coming from scum. He almost seems resigned to having to bus here and is preparing to move his vote. He is frustrated that he hasn't managed to make Boon the more popular wagon.

I don't know whether he is coaching here either - hinting for Banakai to claim a PR

. Yeah, I don't like this post.

Yes, scum is scum - regardless of what scum could do, vote for your scum-reads without hesitation.

Interesting theory on absta101 "coaching" Banakai too - I did not originally see that possibility. Claiming a PR on D1 would have been the best play to make as caught scum (not self-vote).

That's an interesting theory on coaching.

Suppose that BBT and Absta are scum, they just placed L-2 and L-1 votes on their scumbuddy. I could see the self-hammer as a way of saying FU to his team mates.

Fuck this shit VOTE: Banakai

There has to be at least one scum on the lynch wagon besides Banakai, right? The first four votes had been stuck on there like glue so are less likely to be scum (and the first vote is from town).

Wagon 4

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 964
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

Banakai

_____________7______

Haschel Cedricson

(502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (940), absta101 (941),

Banakai

(964)
absta101____________3______redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
Boonskiies__________2______Kmd4390 (592), TonyMontana (839)
TonyMontana_________1______Zoronos (850)

[Doctor Who]

I suggest everyone re-read Haschel Cedricson as well. In addition to pushing Banakai, he made it clear he had other suspects, one in particular.

By offing Haschel, the WW have also silenced his suspicions.

[Doctor Who]

Tony, your scum pile is BBT/Zoro/redff but you said you don't think BBT is scum with Zoro or redff. If BBT were to flip scum, who would you expect his buddy to be?

BBT, can you explain your town read on Zoro? What do you think about the points Keyser made just before voting him? What do you think about Zoro posting without responding to those points?

Doctor Who, why does there have to be a scum that bussed?

In the 5+ years that I've been playing mafia here and on another site, it has been the rare exception that there was a scum that didn't bus. I've been tracking votes like I currently am nearly as long as I've been playing mafia.

Please note that I did leave open the possibility that no scum bussed.

There has to be at least one scum on the lynch wagon besides Banakai, right?

What are your thoughts kmd?

[Doctor Who]

I've gotten a few responses to my theory that Banakai was pissed at his scumbuddies now when he self-hammered.

Fuck this shit VOTE: Banakai

The 500 pound gorilla in the room is why didn't he fakeclaim? He'd need to decide between vanilla / non-vanilla. Vanilla and he could still have been lynched. Non-vanilla and he could have lasted another day and/or outed the real role.

Clearly he was frustrated, but what frustrated him into subpar scum play?

[Doctor Who]

I get the whole WIFOM thing. I thought Banakai was scummy for dropping (potential at the time) WIFOM early on when he out of the blue said redFF was town.

I looked back at his past games, and the first time he was scum I found was Newbie 1410 where he did fakeclaim.

He'd fakeclaimed before, why not now?

[Doctor Who]

prod dodge

[Doctor Who]

Prod dodge

[Doctor Who]

I've been slacking, admittedly I didn't think day 2 was going to end so soon. Needless to say, with Boon around L-2 is the new L-1.

In the meantime, how about the Angel claiming?

[Doctor Who]

In the meantime, how about the Angel claiming?

@everyone

- could you please state your stance on this? Thanks

[Doctor Who]

I can confirm the prior post.

[Doctor Who]

I'll have time to catch up tomorrow, but in the meantime consider this:

There are 9 living players. If the Angel claims today, then the Angel is NK'd leaving the Seer around another day. Day 4 there will be 7 living players. By that point, if the Seer hasn't found scum and all of the Seer's investigations are town then the Seer claims and confirms three townies plus the Seer. With 4 confirmed town out of 7 players, it is basically game over.

It isn't just about the Seer finding scum, it is about confirming townies. Given that the Seer hasn't come forth with found scum, the Seer likely has two confirmed townies (in which case it is more likely than not that both are living).

By the Angel claiming, it also guarantees that the Seer won't investigate someone who dies tonight - the seer won't investigate the angel.

[Doctor Who]

quite close to voting you Doctor, how long will you fucking dodge the prods? Just replace out if you can't play; same goes for everyone else that is lurking.

Not all of us live in the basement of our parents house and can screw around all day.

[Doctor Who]

Unless he dies over night. BBT is the obvious next shot imo.

Worried you'll be lynched so you are telling your scumbuddy who to off?

[Doctor Who]

VOTE: absta

Roleclaim: Angel

Assuming Absta is scum, I think Tony is the best shot at the last scum. Absta has been saying he things Tony is scummy for a while but hasn't done anything about it. I still think Tony is scum for quick reading, and saying that claiming today is scummy.

[Doctor Who]

VOTE: absta

Roleclaim: Angel

Assuming Absta is scum, I think Tony is the best shot at the last scum. Absta has been saying he things Tony is scummy for a while but hasn't done anything about it. I still think Tony is scum for quick reading, and saying that claiming today is scummy.

So, I'm not the Angel but was hoping to draw the NK. This is the worst case scenario where we lost the seer. Real Angel should have claimed.

[Doctor Who]

VOTE: Bulba

I think RC had a guilty.

What makes you think that?

[Doctor Who]

Did someone say L-1?

Vote Count

Bulbazoor

(3):

BlueBloodedToffee, redFF, TonyMontana

redFF

(1):

Boonskiies

Not Voting

(3):

Doctor Who, Keyser Söze, Bulbazoor

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-09-13 11:30:00)

Phone posting - I am in Boston for work and I'll get caught up tonight. Please don't quick hammer - I want to get on recird and I have time. I wAnt to reread redc and look back to the ban wagons

[Doctor Who]

This bit with more cor, wagons, and Analysis, look at ban wagon, should be a scum boon, bulb and or bbt

There were four wagons on Day 1 that got to L-2 or higher. Here they are in order.

Wagon 1

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 168
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Doctor Who__________6______Boonskiies (9), BlueBloodedToffee (66), Keyser Söze (72), absta101 (132), Bulbazoor (138), redff (168)
no vote_____________2______

Banakai

, RedCoyote
absta101____________1______Zoronos (102)
BlueBloodedToffee___1______Kmd4390 (144)
Haschel Cedricson___1______Doctor Who (51)
Kmd4390_____________1______TonyMontana (13)
unvote______________1______

Haschel Cedricson

(76)

Wagon 2

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 564
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
absta101____________5______Zoronos (102), Kmd4390 (175), Boonskiies (485), redff (531), BlueBloodedToffee (564)
Boonskiies__________3______absta101 (422),

Banakai

(472), TonyMontana (533)
unvote______________2______Bulbazoor (301), Keyser Söze (510)

Banakai

_____________1______

Haschel Cedricson

(502)
Bulbazoor___________1______Doctor Who (169)
no vote_____________1______RedCoyote

Wagon 3

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 788
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

Banakai

_____________5______

Haschel Cedricson

(502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (788)
Boonskiies__________4______absta101 (422),

Banakai

(472), TonyMontana (533), Kmd4390 (592)
BlueBloodedToffee___2______Doctor Who (650), redFF (681)
absta101____________1______Zoronos (102)
unvote______________1______Keyser Söze (510)

Wagon 4

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 964
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

Banakai

_____________7______

Haschel Cedricson

(502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (940), absta101 (941),

Banakai

(964)
absta101____________3______redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
Boonskiies__________2______Kmd4390 (592), TonyMontana (839)
TonyMontana_________1______Zoronos (850)


___

I'll keep my commentary below the wagons, as I intend to add to them and update colors as we learn more (would be nice to color the angel blue).

___

The

first wagon

formed quickly, within hours of when the game started. Banakai indicates his approval in his first post of the game (after the wagon fell apart). Note how Banakai addresses BBT from the scum standpoint, not the town standpoint. I contend there is at least one scum on it, if not two.

I AM HERE

I read things; I have 2 questions for players

Woody: would you care to explain why you are playing so defensive? As a town usually you just have to accept that one of you are gonna die day 1 probbably, and just try and get as much information as possible even when being voted. I believe you are either scum, or at least very bad at being town. Also your name can be abbreviated to WW which can mean werewolf. Confirmed.


BBT: Do you think there would be any motivation in this game for a scum to tunnel on Woody like you are now?


Kind of hard to tell about other players since they are mostly spectating and gathering facts, with the exception of people who have already taken the side of Woody acting scum-like which I agree with.

The

second wagon

, like the first, also had BBT, redff, and Boon. Banakai put a solo vote out there on red ff, before joining the boon wagon. His only other vote day 1 was to self-hammer.

VOTE: red ff ya I know I called him town

VOTE: Boon

I bought idiot town for woody, but I have a hard time believing this slot was simply idiot town twice. Also not much point for me to be on a wagon nobody is helping with. I still suspect red ff.

Boons posts especially look more like scum than idiot town.

I will post more about him in a little bit

Absta was ready to claim, but to BBT's credit he told him the situation was L-2.

Thats L-1 btw, tell me when you want my claim.

It's L-2.

But doesn't that bring attention to yourself? Why would you do that as scum?

The

third wagon

is on scum, with one confirmed town on it. The

fourth wagon

was the lynch, and the first 4 votes are the same, BBT's 5th vote had moved to Tony before going back to Banakai when I called him out on it. Absta and Banakai moved the wagon to a lynch.

I think it's fair to say there are at least two scum on the lynch wagon (Banakai being one of them). The first four votes come off as town since if they were scum they could have peeled off, which makes what BBT did look like he was trying to move to a counter wagon. BBT couldn't vote Boon after saying how he was playing town, so he did what he could in trying starting another bandwagon.

I want to look at the players history next. Had absta shown a willingness to lynch Banakai? Why did Banakai come in all "F" this?

[Doctor Who]

Confuses Boonskiies slot with WoodyWoodpecker's (Doctor Who) slot (post 473).

Shouldn't this give townpoints to both DW and Boonskiies? It seems like the scumteam would be more cognizant if one of their own replaced out.

Anyway, I like KS' post here. I'm becoming more and more convinced our scumteam is Banakai/Zoro/absta or redFF or Bulba

Still catching up, just noting what RedC said. It can't be Zoro or Absta, so scumpoints to redFF and Bulba.

[Doctor Who]

Why are y'all assuming that TM wasn't catching up prior to 528? I mean, I'll let him speak for himself, but, like I was telling BBT yesterday, those posts don't bother me at all. Often times I start catching up, get bored, and make a post about either my status or something else midway through.

This is what bugged me about tony, but I'm assuming that RedC is defending town.

[Doctor Who]

Yeah, I think I would. In that case I think it would be BBT. Banakai's posts give me confident townreads on Boon, TM and DW.

More

[Doctor Who]

I'm going to scrap the idea of trying to read based on who townread Banakai because I think that path just leads us to BBT. Kmd was kind of an odd kill because Zoro was gunning for him yesterday pretty hard.

Anyway, okay, so, there were only two people that were pushing townreads on Zoro without articulating them. Boon and Bulba. Bulba has continually shirked any sort of duties and has been really starting to get under my skin. His Zoro read was particularly lame. He thought Zoro was town, but did very little to stop that lynch. BBT, to his credit, worked very hard to put the brakes on it. I do not think scum would've been as strong as he was in his fight to stop the wagon. Boonskiies is so hard to read, but despite him ignoring this game, he has the benefit of shenanigans from earlier on when he claimed. I don't like the way he's playing, but I also don't think it's particularly pro-scum. Bulba is the only player that wasn't voting Zoro, called him town, but never really tried to get an alternative lynch going. BBT fought tooth and nail to get redFF as a candidate. I wish I could just say, "well, I was wrong about Zoro, so I guess I'll just follow BBT's lead", but I do not think, in my heart of hearts, that redFF is the best lynch today. He could very well be scum, but Bulba is the player I feel most comfortable lynching today. He hasn't been using his vote effectively at all (sans voting Banakai D1). He voted TM late D2 and never moved it. The vote was a crappy vote, too. Let me quote it:

VOTE: Tony
I have a iso check on him day two. I want to see where the wagon goes so I can get a wagon analysis. Plus, I think everyone else is town except for this and like a few others.

1) He never ISO checked TM at all. That was madeup to pad his vote and make it look like he was deliberating more than he actually did.
2) "I want to see where this wagon does so I can get a wagon analysis" Huh? Well, it went nowhere, so what did you learn, Bulba? He doesn't talk about this at all. This is more padding. He's not serious about this at all.
3) Why is it so hard for him to list his town/scum reads? Who are "a few others"? Why is he so secretive? To his credit, he called Zoro town, but then he disappeared. Why didn't get try to sell anyone on TM? Why did he more or less just accept the Zoro lynch?

VOTE: Bulbazoor

RedC's first post of Day 3.

Looks like he got a guilty on Bulb.

I'm still catching up, but

intent to hammer

. What do you have to claim Bulb?

[Doctor Who]

Look, we cannot decide between absta and redFF today. Let's table these players for tomorrow and focus instead on Bulba. Why should we focus on Bulba, you may ask. It's primarily because of the way he acted toward the Zoro wagon. He was supposedly so passionate about Zoro being town, and yet he never tried to seriously stop it. He let his vote linger uselessly on TM while Zoro was reaching a fever pitch, completely uninterested in looking at alternatives. This doesn't add up.

absta, I know you are strongly skeptical of me being town, I've got to reach out to you and get you to go with me on this one. I'm not doing this on behalf of redFF or you. I don't want either of you lynched today.

I was confident on Zoro and that turned out to be wrong, but I'm even more confident about Bulba.

At the very least, can everyone acknowledge that Bulba has felt zero pressure in this game and has very effectively been hiding in plain sight the entire game? Moreso than any other role slot that's currently alive. Including TM and DW. DW and TM both got a little pressure on D1, but Bulba has yet to have any serious wagon on him at all.

BBT, I acknowledge that we didn't see eye-to-eye on Zoro and I kind of ran roughshod over you yesterday. I think Bulba is a more effective candidate today, and I think it's a candidate the town can rally around. Deep down, no one really like Bulba for town, but we all keep passing him up in favor of redFF, Zoro, TM, and absta.

Red is laying it on think about Bulba, even though he is supporting the Builba wagon solo at this point.

[Doctor Who]

absta, again, I want to table you and redFF during this phase. We don't need to get to this today. We're too torn on you two. It probably won't get done either way.

Bulba was likely the person that bussed Banakai. If there was just one. I'm starting to think that DW may have been right about the idea that Banakai hammered himself out of frustration with his team rather than strategy (this also speaks to Bulba as scum and you cannot

The plot thickens...

[Doctor Who]

Eh, well, let's not have that. I can't move my vote, especially if no one will consider what I think to be a very valid point about the fact that Bulba hasn't received any pressure this game and hasn't had any real say about anything (he makes sweeping statements, to be sure, but is never challenged or followed up on). I'll hang in the background now like my friend Bulba and let others take the spotlight today. Hopefully that will start earning me some free town credit and I'll be in a better position to spend it tomorrow.

Regretting that I didn't listen to red more.

[Doctor Who]

Crap, I really, really, really, wish this had turned out differently. I'll come out and say it, I think Keyser is the Angel. redFF and Bulb for the remaining scum. Keyser was on a high horse and wouldn't claim unless he had to.

There are 9 living players. If the Angel claims today, then the Angel is NK'd leaving the Seer around another day. Day 4 there will be 7 living players. By that point, if the Seer hasn't found scum and all of the Seer's investigations are town then the Seer claims and confirms three townies plus the Seer. With 4 confirmed town out of 7 players, it is basically game over.

It isn't just about the Seer finding scum, it is about confirming townies. Given that the Seer hasn't come forth with found scum, the Seer likely has two confirmed townies (in which case it is more likely than not that both are living).

You're presenting a best case scenario (short of a guilty report) like it's guaranteed to happen.
You seem way too caught up in this scheme. We could still lynch a scum today, you know? 1 scum and 7 players also sounds pretty nice for D4

You stated earlier that you thought the Angel claiming D3 had much more merit than in D2. I agreed with that, but was kind of indifferent. At this point, I'm no longer on the fence. I do think it would be more beneficial for the Angel to claim today.

Best case scenario: Seer has two innocents (not including an un-cc'd Angel), Angel claims, that's 4 clears today. Narrows down scum to 2 in 5. If we manage to lynch someone in the 5, regardless if we hit scum or town, then Angel is shot overnight, we then come into D4 with Seer and three good reports.
Worst case scenario: Seer has reports on one dead person and the Angel. Angel claims and we learn nothing.

Or something happens in between that. But even if it's the worst case scenario, that scenario could still happen tomorrow, too. Or the day after. Depending on how good the Seer is at investigating either scum or townies that don't get shot.

I'll tell you one thing, if the Angel doesn't claim today then he better claim tomorrow. There's a point of diminishing returns here, and we're taking just as much risk with him not claiming (Seer could investigate him if he hasn't already; scum could shoot him) that we are with having him claim.

[Doctor Who]

Given that I wasn't NK'd it stands to reason that the scum were really scaared of redC. So far, only Bulb would have a beef with redC on Day 3.

[Doctor Who]

You know, now that I put all the pieces together about all the players, I'm pretty convinced that the last two scum are in {redFF, Bulba and absta} anyway.

Lynch mob forming

[Doctor Who]

VOTE: absta

Roleclaim: Angel

Assuming Absta is scum, I think Tony is the best shot at the last scum. Absta has been saying he things Tony is scummy for a while but hasn't done anything about it. I still think Tony is scum for quick reading, and saying that claiming today is scummy.

Sorry Absta. And RedC.

[Doctor Who]

Yeah, if Bulba flips scum I'm 100% lynching Redff.

Although, I'm becoming increasingly suspicious of Keyser.

This is the fear in the back of my mind as well re: Keyser.

[Doctor Who]

There were four wagons on Day 1 that got to L-2 or higher. Here they are in order.

Wagon 1

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 168
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Doctor Who__________6______Boonskiies (9), BlueBloodedToffee (66), Keyser Söze (72),

absta101 (132)

, Bulbazoor (138), redff (168)
no vote_____________2______

Banakai

,

RedCoyote

absta101____________1______Zoronos (102)

BlueBloodedToffee___1______

Kmd4390 (144)

Haschel Cedricson

___1______Doctor Who (51)

Kmd4390

_____________1______TonyMontana (13)
unvote______________1______

Haschel Cedricson

(76)

Wagon 2

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 564
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

absta101

____________5______

Zoronos (102), Kmd4390 (175)

, Boonskiies (485), redff (531), BlueBloodedToffee (564)
Boonskiies__________3______

absta101 (422)

,

Banakai

(472), TonyMontana (533)
unvote______________2______Bulbazoor (301), Keyser Söze (510)

Banakai

_____________1______

Haschel Cedricson

(502)
Bulbazoor___________1______Doctor Who (169)
no vote_____________1______

RedCoyote

Wagon 3

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 788
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

Banakai

_____________5______

Haschel Cedricson

(502),

RedCoyote (649)

, Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (788)
Boonskiies__________4______

absta101 (422)

,

Banakai

(472), TonyMontana (533),

Kmd4390 (592)

BlueBloodedToffee___2______Doctor Who (650), redFF (681)

absta101

____________1______

Zoronos (102)

unvote______________1______Keyser Söze (510)

Wagon 4

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 964
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

Banakai

_____________7______

Haschel Cedricson

(502),

RedCoyote (649)

, Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (940),

absta101 (941)

,

Banakai

(964)

absta101

____________3______redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
Boonskiies__________2______

Kmd4390 (592)

, TonyMontana (839)
TonyMontana_________1______

Zoronos (850)

___

For Days 2 and 3, the only wagons that got to L-2 or higher were the lynch wagons.

Day 2: 6 votes required out of 11 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 1311
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

Zoronos

_____________6______

RedCoyote (979), Kmd4390 (1001),

Keyser Söze (1148), redFF (1259),

absta101 (1285)

, Boonskiies (1311)
BlueBloodedToffee___1______Doctor Who (1014)

Kmd4390_____________1______Zoronos (1033)

redFF_______________1______BlueBloodedToffee (1177)
TonyMontana_________1______Bulbazoor (1194)
unvote______________1______TonyMontana (1211)

___

Day 3: 5 votes required out of 9 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-09-02 11:30:00); updated through post 1481
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

absta101

____________5______Boonskiies (1362), redFF (1390), Keyser Söze (1408), TonyMontana (1470), Doctor Who (1481)
Bulbazoor___________2______

RedCoyote (1322)

, BlueBloodedToffee (1465)
no vote_____________1______Bulbazoor
redFF_______________1______

absta101 (1329)

___

Analysis

Day 1 Wagon 1 - everyone is cleared off the Woody (DW) wagon except for DW and Tony, ergo there is at least one scum on the wagon. Two if you think Tony and I are town. I had noted way earlier in the game the scumminess of redFF's "whoops I didn't know the vote was L-1", and that once Banakai started posting he would have supported the wagon as well. I initially raged against BBT, but given that absta is town I'm more likely to forgive BBT.

Day 1 Wagon 2 - absta is town, you'd expect scum to support it, Boon, BBT, and redFF are left.

Day 1 Wagon 3 - Banakai. Boon, Bulb, and BBT are on it.

Day 1 Wagon 4 - BBT dropped off, but then came back. I think Banakai rage self-hammered since his scumbuddies Bulb and redFF hadn't even bothered to move their votes since Wagon 3. Boon, BBT, and Bulb are unknown.

The three B's show up a lot together, but given the likely Bulb catch by the seer, Boon and BBT wouldn't be scum together. I think they just like to be on wagons. A lot of the interaction between Boon and BBT indicates that either would finger the other if they were scum.

Day 2 - Boon quickhammers. do you really think that after scum was lynched day 1 that no scum would be on the day 2 town lynch wagon?

[Doctor Who]

tl;dnr

Bulb and redFF are scum. Bulb stopped posting and needed to be prodded more than once Day 3 because he knew he was caught scum. Look at redFF's recent posts as well - he has stopped posting a lot of content and is doing just enough to get along.

At the start of Day 3, Bulb and redFF were pushing for similar lynches (Tony in particular).

[Doctor Who]

Doctor Who, can you explain what you got out of the wagon analysis?

At the time, I thought this was an honest question. Could have been asking for info to know what to do / avoid.

gree. I have no tolerance for players like he is playing in this game. Absta is ww or town. Instead of the latter, I believe him to he town because of the linez of thinking he posts. The conversation with kmd was fishy but It does not prove his alignment to be

Interesting that
1) you go out of your way to identify the only two possibilities for absta (not rocket science)
2) you list him as ww first (people generally put their best guess first)
3)"Instead of the latter" - the latter as you stated is town, so you essentially wrote "Instead of town, I believe him to be town"

I"m not sure what to make of it.

That was a mistake. I thought I put ww as last. Sorry. I did not post the first because it was my guess. I did not post it in ant specific order.

In hindsight, this was more damning than I thought.

That is a good plan. Especially the one where we cqn have a confirmed town to help us out here. Ccs from a werewolf are suboptimal for the scum since that leaves one more ww if we lynch right. If we lynch wrong, the ww still loses one. I think town can win this one. We can do this.

So I brought up the Angel plan, and in retrospect this looks like coaching his buddies "counterclaiming is suboptimal".

Hey. I think that is a very great proposal. Except that ww runs a large risk if a cc is.created so I do not see a ww coubterclaiming anytime soon. Tbh. I still think that we will be able to find a scum ww by looking at the ban wagon and the players who were on it for possible evidence of bussing.

Even more concern about a WW counter.

I want the angel to out to give us one clear so we up our chancez at lynching ww. These are the possible scenarios. Judge for yourselves which one is best.

1. Angel outs. Chance at lynching scum is almost fifty percent. Angel will die regardless and scum can not cc in this scenario because it leaves a confirmed scum.

2. Angel stays put and does not out. We have an 18 percent chance at winning.

See. The first scenario would benefit us the most in that it leaves scum with no choice and almost an auto win for the town.

Bad math

BBT at this point, I doubt he had a guilty. If he did, why not out it straight out. Anyway, I think it is bbt/redff with a hint of tony in it. Real angel should out since we need a clear to lead us today.

Noting that Bulb isn't denying that he is scum, he is doubting that there was a guilty. If you are town, your first instinct is "I'm town, so it doesn't matter if I was investigated or not".

[Doctor Who]

Do we even need a claim from Bulb at this point?

[Doctor Who]

Some info on redFF:

if u iso woodywoodpecker he has a LOT of posts, very little, if any, scumhunting. the posts are mainly contentless/defending himself, which are both types of posts that werewolves would make
so

vote:woodywoodpecker

pedit: scum can be active, u r an example ww

Weak sauce reason for voting me, sliding right onto the extremely early wagon Day 1.

unvote

didn't kno it was l-1, still think ur scummy

mod we need a votecount pls

"Whoops"

goddamnit why did u claim we're not even 12 hours into day 1 lol

villager is what a mafia would claim since its an open setup so u claiming early does nothing to show that you are town

why would u claim lol

godammnit

woody is scrub overly defensive town or werewolf

KMD noted this before, the lol's were unusual. More like scum lol-ing at town for getting a claim so early.

unvote[\b]

ww was an awful player but probably be town, will make a vote later

You'd think after "whoops" that he'd be more careful with votes.

@mod u missed my absta vote in ur vc

like here

intent to hammer
claim pls

note the politeness towards scum-Banakai - the implication being "please claim something so we can let you off the hook or at least lynch a power role".

Maybe this is what also peeved Banakai.

haschel was the obvious nightkill, not sure what angel was doing

im fine with lynching absta or bbt

Scum-gloating that the Angel didn't protect HC.

im not really sure the angel should claim, dont see the benefits of it tbh

Noted against the plan despite its benefits.

im guilty of not paying enough attention to banakai and that wagon, so i can't exactly attack zoronos for doing the same thing tbh

zoronos what are your thoughts on absta? you said you had him as scum, then that you would reread him, and have not really mentioned him since. what the deal with that?

"Not paying enough attention" is an interesting way to put it. He had left his vote on Banakai for a while. Perhaps he regrets not moving his vote off onto another wagon when the chance presented itself.

bbt from one town player to another u should stop tunneling me m8, embarrassing yourself tbh

i could vote bulb today but im weary of getting on an RC-made wagon after yesterdays flip

absta or tony are good lynches today

Noting a mention of bulb, but no action on the voting front. Decent way to say "I suspected him" without voting.

RC i would lynch you over bulb tbh

Chainsaw defense of Bulb, RedC was highly suspecting Bulb by this point. Even though he was willing to vote Bulb before in 1328 quoted above IN THE SAME GAME DAY.

Eh, well, let's not have that. I can't move my vote, especially if no one will consider what I think to be a very valid point about the fact that Bulba hasn't received any pressure this game and hasn't had any real say about anything (he makes sweeping statements, to be sure, but is never challenged or followed up on). I'll hang in the background now like my friend Bulba and let others take the spotlight today. Hopefully that will start earning me some free town credit and I'll be in a better position to spend it tomorrow.

u pushed an easy lynch yesterday with zoronos and are pushing an easy lynch today with bulb

redFF loves the chainsaw!

vote:bulba

Its a mafia scum miracle! "well, my scumbuddy is going down so I'll try to get town cred"

[Doctor Who]

tl;dnr

Lynch Bulb then lynch redFF.

I'm done - does anyone have anything else to add?

[Doctor Who]

Do we even need a claim from Bulb at this point?

Nah. I'm ready to cut this roster down.

I'm good with Bulba being hammered.

In memory of RedCoyote:

VOTE: Bulbazoor

My only regret is that I didn't get to hammer myself.

VOTE: Bulbazoor <---L + 1

[Doctor Who]

VOTE: redFF

[Doctor Who]

BBT - what did you think of my case on redFF at the end of yesterday? I need something to work with there besides that you are lost. Take a look at the remaining players and see how they fit the narrative. Do you see how redFF was defending Bulb by attacking RedC? His reasoning was that RedC was off on his read before which is a really poor reason - folks get things wrong all of the time. Being wrong about person X does not mean they are wrong about person Y.

There were four wagons on Day 1 that got to L-2 or higher. Here they are in order. I think the Day 2 lynch wagon is especially telling - after losing a scum day 1, don't you think there would be scum pushing the lynch of a townie? So far there are no confirmed scum on said wagon.

Wagon 1

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 168
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Doctor Who__________6______Boonskiies (9), BlueBloodedToffee (66), Keyser Söze (72),

absta101 (132)

,

Bulbazoor (138)

, redff (168)
no vote_____________2______

Banakai

,

RedCoyote

absta101____________1______Zoronos (102)

BlueBloodedToffee___1______

Kmd4390 (144)

Haschel Cedricson

___1______Doctor Who (51)

Kmd4390

_____________1______

TonyMontana (13)

unvote______________1______

Haschel Cedricson

(76)

Wagon 2

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 564
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

absta101

____________5______

Zoronos (102), Kmd4390 (175)

, Boonskiies (485), redff (531), BlueBloodedToffee (564)
Boonskiies__________3______

absta101 (422)

,

Banakai

(472),

TonyMontana (533)

unvote______________2______

Bulbazoor (301)

, Keyser Söze (510)

Banakai

_____________1______

Haschel Cedricson

(502)

Bulbazoor

___________1______Doctor Who (169)
no vote_____________1______

RedCoyote

Wagon 3

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 788
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

Banakai

_____________5______

Haschel Cedricson

(502),

RedCoyote (649)

,

Bulbazoor (702)

, Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (788)
Boonskiies__________4______

absta101 (422)

,

Banakai (472)

,

TonyMontana (533), Kmd4390 (592)

BlueBloodedToffee___2______Doctor Who (650), redFF (681)

absta101

____________1______

Zoronos (102)

unvote______________1______Keyser Söze (510)

Wagon 4

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 964
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

Banakai

_____________7______

Haschel Cedricson

(502),

RedCoyote (649)

,

Bulbazoor (702)

, Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (940),

absta101 (941)

,

Banakai

(964)

absta101

____________3______redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
Boonskiies__________2______

Kmd4390 (592), TonyMontana (839)

TonyMontana_________1______

Zoronos (850)

___

For Days 2 and 3, the only wagons that got to L-2 or higher were the lynch wagons.

Day 2: 6 votes required out of 11 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 1311
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

Zoronos

_____________6______

RedCoyote (979), Kmd4390 (1001),

Keyser Söze (1148), redFF (1259),

absta101 (1285)

, Boonskiies (1311)
BlueBloodedToffee___1______Doctor Who (1014)

Kmd4390_____________1______Zoronos (1033)

redFF_______________1______BlueBloodedToffee (1177)
TonyMontana_________1______

Bulbazoor (1194)

unvote______________1______

TonyMontana (1211)

___

Day 3: 5 votes required out of 9 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-09-02 11:30:00); updated through post 1481
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

absta101

____________5______Boonskiies (1362), redFF (1390), Keyser Söze (1408),

TonyMontana (1470)

, Doctor Who (1481)
Bulbazoor___________2______

RedCoyote (1322)

, BlueBloodedToffee (1465)
no vote_____________1______

Bulbazoor

redFF_______________1______

absta101 (1329)

___

Analysis

Day 1 Wagon 1 - confirmed late scum support of the wagon. Note Banakai hadn't voted yet - he hadn't posted before that but when he did show up he said he'd have supported it. Either you think DW is scum, or the remaining scum is on my wagon.

Day 1 Wagon 2 - absta is town, you'd expect scum to support it, Boon, BBT, and redFF are left. If you think scum didn't support it, you'd look at me and Keyser. For any given five players, don't you think there would be a scum in there, especially since the wagon was on town?

Day 1 Wagon 3 - Banakai. You can see that scum were supporting both leading wagons. Do you think the remaining scum would support a wagon on a scumbuddy at that point? If you do, look at BBT and Boon.

Day 1 Wagon 4 - BBT dropped off, but then came back. I think Banakai rage self-hammered since his scumbuddies Bulb and redFF hadn't even bothered to move their votes since Wagon 3. There is no way that all three scum voted day 1 (without daytalk) to vote one of their own out.

Day 2 - Boon quickhammers. do you really think that after scum was lynched day 1 that no scum would be on the day 2 town lynch wagon? This points to Keyser, redFF, and Boon.

Day 3 - If you believe scum weren't on the wagon, then suspect BBT. Otherwise Boon, Red, Keyser, and me.

[Doctor Who]

You know, now that I put all the pieces together about all the players, I'm pretty convinced that the last two scum are in {redFF, Bulba and absta} anyway.

And let me return to this point. When you are a cop (or seer), do you investigate pro-town candidates, or scummy ones? Given that you investigate the scummy and that the scum offed pro-town players, doesn't it stand to reason that RedC was getting pro-town reads before his guilty on Bulb? We don't know for sure who he investigate, but he had three before he died. Other than the remaining scum, he knows the most.

My case against redFF aside, isn't the smart play to listen to the seer?

On the remote chance that we are wrong, today isn't LYLO, tomorrow is.

[Doctor Who]

Keyser, you should explain why you're scum reading me. I have been asking for 2 game days now.

Doctor I have a very simple question to ask you; do you think I would be alive if Redff was scum?

I'm not following your line of reasoning. You'll need to just come out and say what you are thinking.

After the Bulb lynch, there was one scum left. Who does that scum choose to kill? Lots of things can go into the decision, but at the end of the day the scum took out the Angel.

You had come to the conclusion yesterday (game day) that redFF was the scum, and so did I.

[Doctor Who]

Sure, I mean, I guess you're entitled to your opinion.

In my opinion, if Redff was scum, I would now be dead. He would have known I was coming into this Day looking for his head and I just drove a scum lynch as well - I have been left alive to drive a mislynch on Redff. I feel fairly confident that he is town.

Last scum is in Boon/Keyser.

You are drinking the WIFOM kool-aid. redFF chainsawed for bulba vs redC. redFF is on redC's short list.

But let me humor you, which one of them is the scum and why?

[Doctor Who]

And on the other side I'm sitting here wondering - why the fuck is Keyser still alive? Everybody and their dog has been town reading you since D1, and yet, here you are.

Keyser is my runner-up based on gut. Frankly I was hoping that he'd be NK'd which is part of the reason why I said he was the Angel.

The scum have only gotten 4 NKs. HC and KMD were pretty pro-town. redC needed to die since he was the seer. Why Tony? Probably becaue redC defended him.

HC
KMD
redC
Tony

[Doctor Who]

I've found that votes on wagons are more meaningful when they are close to lynching, otherwise there is too much to go through but if you find one that you like, I'm all ears. I can produce a vote count at any point in the game if you want.

The one you are referring to I have been tracking as of post 788 when Banakai got up to 5 votes (L-2). He stayed there at five votes until you unvoted him but then went back on.

Here is the progression, starting with BBT putting Ban to 5 votes (L-2)

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 788
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Banakai_____________5______Haschel Cedricson (502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (788)
Boonskiies__________4______absta101 (422), Banakai (472), TonyMontana (533), Kmd4390 (592)
BlueBloodedToffee___2______Doctor Who (650), redFF (681)
absta101____________1______Zoronos (102)
unvote______________1______Keyser Söze (510)

redFF (town) votes Boon

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 790
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Banakai_____________5______Haschel Cedricson (502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (788)
Boonskiies__________4______absta101 (422), Banakai (472), TonyMontana (533), Kmd4390 (592)
absta101____________2______Zoronos (102), redff (790)
BlueBloodedToffee___1______Doctor Who (650)
unvote______________1______Keyser Söze (510)

Keyeser onto absta (was not voting before)

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 805
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Banakai_____________5______Haschel Cedricson (502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (788)
Boonskiies__________4______absta101 (422), Banakai (472), TonyMontana (533), Kmd4390 (592)
absta101____________3______Zoronos (102), redff (790), Keyser Söze (805)
BlueBloodedToffee___1______Doctor Who (650)

DW onto Absta (off of BBT)

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 808
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Banakai_____________5______Haschel Cedricson (502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (788)
absta101____________4______Zoronos (102), redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
Boonskiies__________4______absta101 (422), Banakai (472), TonyMontana (533), Kmd4390 (592)

tony throw away solo vote on BBT (I don' think the mod counted this so the prior vote count is what you are referring to. Scum are supporting Banakai and Boon wagons. If you think that scum are spread out to push mulitple wagons, then you are looking at redFF, Kesyer, and me.

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 839
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Banakai_____________5______Haschel Cedricson (502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (788)
absta101____________4______Zoronos (102), redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
Boonskiies__________3______absta101 (422), Banakai (472), Kmd4390 (592)
BlueBloodedToffee___1______TonyMontana (839)

Tony to Boon

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 839
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Banakai_____________5______Haschel Cedricson (502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (788)
absta101____________4______Zoronos (102), redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
Boonskiies__________4______absta101 (422), Banakai (472), Kmd4390 (592), TonyMontana (839)

Zoronos to Tony

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 850
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Banakai_____________5______Haschel Cedricson (502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (788)
Boonskiies__________4______absta101 (422), Banakai (472), Kmd4390 (592), TonyMontana (839)
absta101____________3______redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
TonyMontana_________1______Zoronos (850)

BBT to Tony

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 854
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
Banakai_____________4______Haschel Cedricson (502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710)
Boonskiies__________4______absta101 (422), Banakai (472), Kmd4390 (592), TonyMontana (839)
absta101____________3______redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
TonyMontana_________2______Zoronos (850), BlueBloodedToffee (854)

After that, it goes BBT to Ban, Absta to Ban, Ban to Ban. The scummiest vote is actually BBT's, being on scum then moving off of scum before coming home to roost. At best your suspicion of Keyser fits to redFF and DW, but keep in mind that at least two townies that did the same by voting Absta.

Doctor, I have done a quick ISO of the VCs from D1 and I think your VCA is somewhat lacking - you miss a lot of important information by only looking at wagons that got to L-2 or higher (I believe this VC falls under your bracket, no?)

Vote Count

Banakai

(5):

Haschel Cedricson

,

Red Coyote

,

Bulbazoor

, Boonskiies, BlueBloodedToffee

Boonskiies

(4):

absta101

,

Banakai

,

Tony Montana

,

Kmd4390

absta101

(4):

Zoronos

, redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who

Not Voting

(0):

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00)[/color]

The other scum is 100% pushing the Absta lynch. Scum spread themselves out to push multiple wagons to counter the Banakai wagon.

I plan on doing a full VCA and having a closer look at Keyser tonight.

[Doctor Who]

You know, now that I put all the pieces together about all the players, I'm pretty convinced that the last two scum are in {redFF, Bulba and absta} anyway.

[Doctor Who]

VOTE: Redff

Could you please explain your reasoning?

On the off chance that town is lynched today, who is do you think is the remaining scum and why?

[Doctor Who]

RedFf needs prod

[Doctor Who]

Come on fellas. Its the top of the ninth and the home team is winning. Let's not blow it.

Is what redFF posted town or scum giving up? Bulb did the same thing "yesterday". Posted just enough to get by.

[Doctor Who]

You know, now that I put all the pieces together about all the players, I'm pretty convinced that the last two scum are in {redFF, Bulba and absta} anyway.

[Doctor Who]

BBT - I am reading what you are posting.

Keyser asked the mod who confirmed that the scum don't have daytalk. Without being able to coordinate on Day 1, they would be playing relatively vanilla. Nothing ballsy. At 728 you pointed out Boon and Bulb joined the Banakai wagon. That's too ballsy.

You have also noted that Day 1 reasons for votes were weak, I'd argue that Day 1 votes are generally weak. You've assigned weak votes to more players than there are scum remaining.

[Doctor Who]

BBT - when you get to Day 2 I'm curious to know your take on this lynch wagon.

Day 2: 6 votes required out of 11 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 1311
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

Zoronos

_____________6______

RedCoyote (979), Kmd4390 (1001),

Keyser Söze (1148), redFF (1259),

absta101 (1285)

, Boonskiies (1311)
BlueBloodedToffee___1______Doctor Who (1014)

Kmd4390_____________1______Zoronos (1033)

redFF_______________1______BlueBloodedToffee (1177)
TonyMontana_________1______

Bulbazoor (1194)

unvote______________1______

TonyMontana (1211)

[Doctor Who]

Finally, we have the Banakai lynch and a completely unflipped wagon on Absta. Based on D1 VCA, I think Boon could be scum. However, my gut is telling me that the last scum is hiding on the Absta wagon - the wagon has no flips. Doctor has been doing VCA for some time, I could absolutely see his strategy coming from him. Based on his play overall though, I still think he is town.

Here's that lynch wagon. It'd be way too ballsy for all three scum to be on the lynch wagon - this is part of why I think you and Boon are town. This game isn't completely vanilla - there is a cop. That adds to the riskiness. A scum team that didn't have an opportunity to collude wouldn't all vote one of their own out day 1.

Wagon 4

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 964
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

Banakai

_____________7______

Haschel Cedricson

(502),

RedCoyote (649)

,

Bulbazoor (702)

, Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (940),

absta101 (941)

,

Banakai

(964)

absta101

____________3______redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
Boonskiies__________2______

Kmd4390 (592), TonyMontana (839)

TonyMontana_________1______

Zoronos (850)

[Doctor Who]

BBT at this point, I doubt he had a guilty. If he did, why not out it straight out. Anyway, I think it is bbt/redff with a hint of tony in it. Real angel should out since we need a clear to lead us today.

You doubt he had a guilty? The only person who shouldn't have any doubt is town-bulb. So I'm starting to doubt that town-bulb is in this game.

If you want Angel to claim, maybe you should claim Angel.
If I'm alive tomorrow, I'd rather be alive with an angel alive, because sacrificing our last card today doesn't seem very beneficial.
It's LyLo tomorrow if we don't get scum today. LyLo with an angel sounds better than an angel "leader" for the day.

p-edit: I'm keeping my vote off for now, BBT, I want to ensure we hear more from everyone. But I'm onboard.

Also, just wanted to point out something that caught my eye, RC on the topic of seer claiming:

I don't think the Seer should claim, guilty or no. That's easy enough to figure out later down the road (if they have a guilty and are killed before they tell us).

Granted, this was on D2, but it could be instructive as to whether RC would've claimed if he did have a guilty.

Seer flipped, a seer who came straight into D3 with a vendetta against Bulba.
This was no coincidence, and it is also why RC got killed, because it must have been clear as day to scum that RC was the seer.

VOTE: Bulbazoor

I was all about "hey, let's talk it over", but I think we have an advantage now, so let's run with it.
Insha'Allah, the angel will get through yet another night.

Interesting comment - does this clear BlueBloodedToffee?

This comment stood out to me as well, sounded like BBT was not an option to him. In other comments he doesn't seem to write off BBT as a potential candidate, so I'm not sure now..

BBT - I re-read Tony a bit too. The above three posts were a decent indication he was the Angel right before he was NK'd. Part of your reasoning was "why am I still alive to push redFF if redFF is scum", well this could be explained by the last scum gunning for the Angel.

Tony made a good point about LYLO - having the angel around for that would basically mean that the angel would determine the final lynch.

Further, look who were both onto Tony Day 3:

is absta and tony too obvious a scumteam here?

i feel like the kmd kill and flip is supposed to make us look at the first few votes on the zoronos wagon, but i think absta's hop on it reeks of opportunistic scum, same with his hop on the banakai wagon day 1, except that was a bus

vote:absta

Y the way things went, I would lynch red or tony. Add bbt.

[Doctor Who]

So the thread has been a little slow, so I thought I'd look into redFF some more.

Note the reaction to Woody's claim.

goddamnit why did u claim we're not even 12 hours into day 1 lol

villager is what a mafia would claim since its an open setup so u claiming early does nothing to show that you are town

why would u claim lol

godammnit

woody is scrub overly defensive town or werewolf

Contrast that to asking Banakai for a claim. Night and Day. Really looks like he's playing nice with his scumbuddy as if to say "claim something to get off the hook".

intent to hammer
claim pls

"Darn, someone lynched my scumbuddy but that won't stop me from getting town cred."

danmn i wanted the hammer

redFF pretty clearly disavows being the Angel with this post. This is important because the last NK was on the Angel. The last thing scum-redFF wants is to be in LYLO with the angel. Since he can't counterclaim, the angel claims and decides who is being lynched. Scum would rather have more control in LYLO.

haschel was the obvious nightkill, not sure what angel was doing

im fine with lynching absta or bbt

[Doctor Who]

doctor who stop being bad im town

Then make your cases. Do some research. Hunt scum or be hunted.

[Doctor Who]

If there is a dead QT, I wonder what they're saying about the game at this point.

"So close to victory"

"Win one for the Gipper"

"Its kind of ironic that DW is doing the most posting now"

[Doctor Who]

You know, now that I put all the pieces together about all the players, I'm pretty convinced that the last two scum are in {redFF, Bulba and absta} anyway.

[Doctor Who]

Where have all, the players gone?

[Doctor Who]

redFF is being replaced.

Or we lynch him. You know where my vote is.

[Doctor Who]

Between keyser and bbt we just need one vote. Come on people.

[Doctor Who]

Dierfire, the seer nailed you as scum: any last words?

[Doctor Who]

Keyser is my runner up for scum.

[Doctor Who]

Dierfire, I'm impressed with what you put into this game. Hats off to you.

[Doctor Who]

Dierfire, redFF never responded to this. What do you make of it? I'm particularly interested in what you think about the chainsaw.

Spoiler: DW's case on redFF

Some info on redFF:

if u iso woodywoodpecker he has a LOT of posts, very little, if any, scumhunting. the posts are mainly contentless/defending himself, which are both types of posts that werewolves would make
so

vote:woodywoodpecker

pedit: scum can be active, u r an example ww

Weak sauce reason for voting me, sliding right onto the extremely early wagon Day 1.

unvote

didn't kno it was l-1, still think ur scummy

mod we need a votecount pls

"Whoops"

goddamnit why did u claim we're not even 12 hours into day 1 lol

villager is what a mafia would claim since its an open setup so u claiming early does nothing to show that you are town

why would u claim lol

godammnit

woody is scrub overly defensive town or werewolf

KMD noted this before, the lol's were unusual. More like scum lol-ing at town for getting a claim so early.

unvote[\b]

ww was an awful player but probably be town, will make a vote later

You'd think after "whoops" that he'd be more careful with votes.

@mod u missed my absta vote in ur vc

like here

intent to hammer
claim pls

note the politeness towards scum-Banakai - the implication being "please claim something so we can let you off the hook or at least lynch a power role".

Maybe this is what also peeved Banakai.

haschel was the obvious nightkill, not sure what angel was doing

im fine with lynching absta or bbt

Scum-gloating that the Angel didn't protect HC.

im not really sure the angel should claim, dont see the benefits of it tbh

Noted against the plan despite its benefits.

im guilty of not paying enough attention to banakai and that wagon, so i can't exactly attack zoronos for doing the same thing tbh

zoronos what are your thoughts on absta? you said you had him as scum, then that you would reread him, and have not really mentioned him since. what the deal with that?

"Not paying enough attention" is an interesting way to put it. He had left his vote on Banakai for a while. Perhaps he regrets not moving his vote off onto another wagon when the chance presented itself.

bbt from one town player to another u should stop tunneling me m8, embarrassing yourself tbh

i could vote bulb today but im weary of getting on an RC-made wagon after yesterdays flip

absta or tony are good lynches today

Noting a mention of bulb, but no action on the voting front. Decent way to say "I suspected him" without voting.

RC i would lynch you over bulb tbh

Chainsaw defense of Bulb, RedC was highly suspecting Bulb by this point. Even though he was willing to vote Bulb before in 1328 quoted above IN THE SAME GAME DAY.

Eh, well, let's not have that. I can't move my vote, especially if no one will consider what I think to be a very valid point about the fact that Bulba hasn't received any pressure this game and hasn't had any real say about anything (he makes sweeping statements, to be sure, but is never challenged or followed up on). I'll hang in the background now like my friend Bulba and let others take the spotlight today. Hopefully that will start earning me some free town credit and I'll be in a better position to spend it tomorrow.

u pushed an easy lynch yesterday with zoronos and are pushing an easy lynch today with bulb

redFF loves the chainsaw!

vote:bulba

Its a mafia scum miracle! "well, my scumbuddy is going down so I'll try to get town cred"

[Doctor Who]

UNVOTE: Dierfire

@BBT and Boon

- the last scum is redFF or Keyser. Today isn't lylo, but I need you both to see that this is the case. I'd just want to be sure that the other one is the lynch tomorrow if we're wrong today.

[Doctor Who]

That seems unwise to me.
How does removing your vote from me help your strategy?

I'm confident that BBT and Boon are town. I doubt any of the three of us are getting lynched today, and if the game doesn't end today with a scum lynch that means that one of us is going to get NK'd.

BBT has been paranoid as of late, and Boon hasn't said who he thinks is scum past Dierfire (redFF).

After the scum lynch Day 1, there is no way that there were no scum on the Day 2 mislynch. The only slots not flipped on that are redFF, Keyser, and Boon. Boon was on the scum lynch day 1, and there is no way that all three scum were on it. I think redC investigated BBT, and I'm also trusting BBT's pre-paranoia read on Boon.

I think that if I can convince the two of them, this game is a sure win for town even if there is a mislynch today.

[Doctor Who]

I'm actually down to lynch Keyser. I scum read him hard for some reason early, and I just kind of stopped thinking about it when absta and banakai pushed me....

VOTE: Keyser

I will only vote the Redff slot tomorrow if this is wrong.

Thanks. BBT, remember the

[Doctor Who]

To my mind, that pretty much makes Boon the only option. BBT and Doctor Who both had easy routes to victory if they were Mafia (by killing the other and leaving Boon alive to vote for me).

@Boon

What do you say?

Nice try scum. I doubt boon of the quick hammer has the patience to not kill.


The right thing to do is VOTE: pass by the numbers, then lynch you after you kill.

[Doctor Who]

Dierfire also didn't post at all on MS between his last post of yesterday and the first post of today. It is possible (but very unlikely) that he missed the deadline to submit a kill. Boon and BBT posted. I did not (this is my only game) but you can see I got my last post in just before the thread was locked, in fact it did't allow me to make another post.

[Doctor Who]

That's counterproductive. Where else would I have posted?

General discussion, really anywhere. As I said, unlikely but possible.