Mini 1715 - Z - Game over!

[SilverWolf]

Hi guys!!

Just got the PM from zakk earlier today asking to replace. Have not read the game yet so give me some time to do that.

I'll try to do some tonight and tomorrow after work. I can't post here during the day while I'm working but I'll do what I can in the next 24 hours or so.

[SilverWolf]

I thought WW unvoted but I guess there's some rule about vote tags so I'll

UNVOTE:

While I'm catching up.

[SilverWolf]

Feverish-so probably won't be on much today. Just an FYI.

[SilverWolf]

Silverwolf :/
It was my expectation for you-scum replacing in to give nothing of substance, and then avoid the thread for a little while. I see you doing exactly that.

Well, I have a reason that has nothing to do with my alignment but I'm not going to sit here and make excuses for neglecting this thread. What I don't understand is how you would get this impression considering we have only played together one time, both as town and I've never done what you are describing above in any game ever so................random?

My opinion on the wagons is that Ciara has done nothing per ISO that looks town. I see no scumhunting, no real taking any stances on anything, and weak reads. I can understand and support the wagon. The only thing that worries me is she might be disinterested town. It would be better if she replaced out because it would be much easier to get a read on her. However, we are near deadline-I think? and if nothing else, this is a good info. lynch as there has been plenty of discussion on it.

You can consider this post intent-Ciara should claim at this point.

Regarding the Karmic wagon-I don't have a problem with it but the points are not as strong on him. The WW lie I don't give a shit about unless there was a scumslip and I don't see it. Reaching and using bad tells-not sure what is scummy about this? I've seen town do that plenty. What else is there again?

Garmr's stance on the Ciara wagon is extreme but I don't think it's WKing. I've played in a game where he was scum and he did not take chances like that. It would be an odd thing to do as scum for no real gain. It's not like it would give him massive towncred or anything. So meh, I don't see it.

[SilverWolf]

I would rather not be replaced but I understand that I haven't been active, and I will leave that decision up to the mod. Will be busy this weekend but life should hopefully settle down by Monday.

This is bad. Monday is past deadline. I have a hard time believing she didn't notice that or that she was at L-1 and needed to claim. I think she's avoiding the thread and avoiding saying anything at this point. Despite being busy, claiming takes literally less than a minute. My only hesitation is this seems to be an issue for her elsewhere also. She should of replaced out days ago.

[SilverWolf]

Eh, I'm not sure I believe she noticed that, that said, with a trifecta of hammer intents on her she is either the most needed mislynch in the world, or scum is desperate to try to claim some glory, so I'll admit I'm feeling fairly confident about the idea of the flip. There's almost a frightening surplus of reactions to read about this wagon.

I agree, the reads we can get off this wagon and the wagon on Karmic will give us plenty of information for D2. I do think the fact that Ciara knew she was prodded means she must have known she's been away for awhile. She mentioned the possibility of being replaced which means she must of read at least that much from the mod. I doubt she didn't look to see where she was in terms of votes or that a claim was asked for. I doubt she didn't know deadline was coming up. Instead she just posted she's busy and won't be back until after deadline. I really don't like this reaction to her wagon. It would of taken maybe 5 minutes to claim and maybe post something that will be helpful to town if she flips town. But she'd denying us that information. At least say, my reads are the same or something.

I'd like to flip this wagon. The only reason I haven't is because people are still talking and I'll be around before deadline.

[SilverWolf]

OK, Let's lynch!!

VOTE: Ciara24

[SilverWolf]

Kind of a catch up, recap of where I see things right now:

Ciara's interactions were mostly with Thor and the fact that Thor pushed Ciara all day after that and worked hard to get her lynched really doesn't make sense as a buddy connection. Did someone mention Thor likes to defend his buddies as scum? Garmr was a heavy busser in the last game I played with him where he was scum. I don't see him so strongly defending his buddy to the extent he defended Ciara. So I'm ruling these two out for now as partners. Plus a lot of their interactions D1 reminded me of stubborn town determined to get the lynch they want. I saw it before with Titus and Wisdom in a game I played.

Dave is someone I have a hard time reading in games as I pretty much scumread him always. Last game I think I had a scumread on him all game and he was town. The game before that he was scum. But I have a neutral read there for now. I'm gonna re-read that scum game since it's been awhile.

Bella was totally null but considering the cop clear, she can be town for now. Radja is town for now due to his claim.

Gimlear's 497 make's some good points on Pista. Regarding his reaction to the wagons, some of it is him trying to sort Thor which is townie. But then he has some of this. Here he votes Karmic over Ciara 272 defends that here in 274 and 304. There's a lot more of this in his ISO but I'm not going to list them all out. It's mostly arguing with Thor about Ciara vs Karmic. Later he talks about wanting to hammer Ciara in 444. It was close to deadline. Despite this I'm getting a slight town feel from his ISO. I feel like he's trying hard to sort Thor and figure out which wagon is better in a way that looks more town than scum.

eventi doesn't have much to say except an L-1 vote on Ciara on 348. He gave an opinion of WW as lynchbait. Concerned about what others thing of Karmic's opinion of him here 456. That seems off to me. Why worry about things like that? Town generally doesn't care how they look. 507 Likes case on pista but no real stance on it otherwise.

@Eventi-how are you reading Pista right now?

Karmic still leans town to me. I revewied his and Ciara's ISO's extensively when I replaced in and his place on the Ciara wagon looks good.

Naco is not making much of an impression on me at all which is somewhat worriesome. Not sure here yet. I need to explore this more.

gummybear has very few posts and a couple of them look townish. However, He's pushing the Karmic wagon here 267 and not liking Ciara wagon here 362. Hops onto pista here 434 and doesn't like pista's reasons for voting Ciara. Really seems to be working hard to avoid the Ciara wagon and is defending her as well plus trying to get a different wagon going. This is FoS territory right here.

pistachiOn tunnels WW right away, has Karmic as a townread, in 202 votes Thor for his case on Ciara. Jumps on her here 305. Says Karmic is his only townread and says Ciara is chickening out. This actually looks worse than gummybear.

Right now, I can go with pista, gummy, eventi-in that order as scumreads.

VOTE: pistachiOn

[SilverWolf]

Really? I'm a town rolecop. Pista is lying and scum. No, there's no way there are two town rolecops and no way that two scum would pull a play like this. It makes no sense.

Clearly she was attracting votes, being scumread by several, and was being asked to claim and give reads. She has a result on me, so of course she's going to out it. If she's going down anyway, why not bring down a town PR with you? There's nothing townie about that. It's scum 101 and what any scum in that situation would do.

I do have a result on someone if you really want me to say who I checked and why or give my result, I can. I don't know if that would make a difference since it's clear it is either me or pista today regardless. I'm fine being lynched because it would bring down scum the next day but I would be confirmed town if you lynched pista today and scum will have to deal with me at night instead of town killing a PR.

I guess you have to look at who is more likely to be scum and go from there.

I've had a very stressful day and don't have the energy to put up a huge fight but I'll be happy to answer any questions you have. I'll be around off and on while I deal with some RL stuff as well.

[SilverWolf]

I do have a result on someone if you really want me to say who I checked and why or give my result, I can

Show us what you got.

Interested in hearing Silver's result.

davesaz is a Jailkeeper

[SilverWolf]

Hi, I've been prodded. I don't have much to add, to what has already been said. I'm terrible at set-up spec and I believe the decision has already been made to lynch me anyway. I'm fine with that decision. This has come down to a matter of game breaking by set-up. Stuff I'm not good at anyway.

BTW-Those prods can be nicer, geez.

How about a vc mod?

[SilverWolf]

I believe the decision has already been made to lynch me anyway. I'm fine with that decision.

Silver, is this a soft scum claim?

No, and I'm not giving up. Sorry if it seems that way. I agree with the plan put forward and don't really have much more to add to it. This is a win regardless of my lynch or not.

event-that's like the third time in a row you've voted for me, I think once is enough to make your point

[SilverWolf]

@Rolecops - could you each clarify what result you get from goons and VTs? Thanks!

@Silverwolf
@Pistachi0n

Just to be clear.

Vanilla

[SilverWolf]

As far as the timing, I said something as soon as I could get in the thread. I already said I did not have a ton of time or energy to put up a big fight and once everyone was out, I realized there was indeed a very clear path to winning even if I died.

As far as outing the result, that was the best way I had to prove I was telling the truth. Not even sure why that was ever a problem.

I also said I would answer any questions regarding this and have and still will. I did not give up at all.

I will be busy all day at work today. I can't be here all the time.

[SilverWolf]

pistachion, why did you target SilverWolf?

I already said it was because I was having trouble interpreting Woody's actions.

Did you think WW was town or scum when you decided to check me? Did you consider any other targets other than me?

[SilverWolf]

Dave is someone I have a hard time reading in games as I pretty much scumread him always. Last game I think I had a scumread on him all game and he was town. The game before that he was scum. But I have a neutral read there for now. I'm gonna re-read that scum game since it's been awhile.

Found the quote Nacho was referencing. I would like to hear what silver has to say about this, as it does seem weird that he null reads someone he just got a JK result for.

Because townreading Dave might of drawn some questions. I wanted that read to be as natural and normal as possible. I would of spoke up if he would of ever been close to a lynch.

I love how Nacho asks me questions but then rushes the hammer before I can speak.

Whatever, I think I care about this game more than the mod does and that's saying something.

VOTE: SilverWolf

[SilverWolf]

I'm a SHE and yes I'm town.

[SilverWolf]

Ugh................................

I'm tempted to say no to the dead PT and scum PT being released just to be a brat.

[SilverWolf]

In case silver doesn't feel like releasing the whole scum-chat, here are the major bullet points.

PM zakk and say you are o.k. with it.

Subject: Mini 1715 - Z - Scientists

The game is over now.

If you DON'T WANT this private thread made public, PM me saying so before Monday at 10pm PST.
If you DON'T MIND if this private thread made public, PM me saying so before Monday at 10pm PST.

Subject: Mini 1715 - Z - Terminated Test Subjects

The game is over now.

If you DON'T WANT this private thread made public, PM me saying so before Monday at 10pm PST.
If you DON'T MIND if this private thread made public, PM me saying so before Monday at 10pm PST.

I have PM'd zakk and said I'm o.k. with both of these being released.

[SilverWolf]

...But, I literally didn't know if self-voting was allowed. Between formerly playing on two sites with slightly different rules, and not having played at all in like two years, I just didn't know. It didn't seem like something that should be allowed?

Lesson learned for the future - people can self-vote, and don't put someone a L-minus-1.

Self-hammering as scum is perfectly acceptable. You should never self vote as town.

[SilverWolf]

This game was townsided. zakk even admitted it wasn't balanced. It was reviewed for normalcy only.

Town played very, very well and scum caught no breaks whatsoever but there's no way this wasn't town sided, even with the PR's that scum had.

You have a full doc, a full jk that the rolecop and cop can check who is jailed, a full cop, a full rolecop. No matter what PR's scum had, if anyone says that isn't townsided, they are fooling themselves.

And I would think this if I was town as well here.

[SilverWolf]

It's still townsided Thor and like I said I would of felt that way if I was town in this game as well.

Yes, town played fantastically well and scum caught exactly zero breaks, but it is what it is.

However, Congrats Town on the win!!

[SilverWolf]

It's still townsided Thor and like I said I would of felt that way if I was town in this game as well.

Yes, town played fantastically well and scum caught exactly zero breaks, but it is what it is.

However, Congrats Town on the win!!

It isn't impossible to win through if town are screw ups. I won as scum with 6 confirmed town near the end of the game in "You could be Anyone Mafia III"


But if town with a town sided set up like this I would say your chances are very little .

Well, I whined and cried about it in the dead PT so enjoy that read.

[SilverWolf]

I didn't even read WW when I agree'd to replace in or anything else in the game. I just said yes, when zakk asked. Then I saw both by buddies being wagoned, Ciara was basically not playing, then get RC'd, then Karmic gets jailed. I really wasn't even sure I wanted to shoot Thor N1 because I thought he'd be protected. I preferred Nacho but Karmic wanted Thor. I figured out Dave was a PR by something he said in the thread which is why I checked him. And me outing him was simply because I knew what he was and Karmic didn't and I didn't think I'd make it to N2. N2, I was surprised that Karmic went for Thor again-Nacho probably would of been a better shot. Not that it mattered really since dave figured him out.

Also, IMO, once the game can be broken by PR's then it's just setup cracking and that's really no fun to be on the other side of. Like, at all.

[SilverWolf]

I'm not adverse to playing in a townsided game as scum.

I am.

[SilverWolf]

Karmic-The only issue I had with your list was what I told you. You just needed to have some more definitive scumreads.

[SilverWolf]

I usually do reads lists as either alignment but I'm more cautious about it as scum because it's too easy to be used against you as associatives down the road.

[SilverWolf]

gummy for future reference, I don't respond well to vote threats to get me to engage with you. I wasn't going to answer you or say much of anything else once I was certain to be lynched. If I wasn't, I would of made a better case and answered your questions.

[SilverWolf]

As an easy example of similar issues - I point you to a RBer loss Day 1 in the Newbie Doc/Cop/RBer setup.
Minis are always swingy on scum PR day 1 losses - it's the nature of a small team and also the nature of the, rather common, protective+investigative combo.

I saw that happen in a newbie and it turned into follow the cop.

I guess there's just no way I'm gonna believe with a full jailkeeper that allows jailed targets to be looked at, a full cop, a full rolecop, and a full doc would not make a game townsided no matter what PR's scum had. Plus, it's way to easy to setup crack via PR's.

The GF balances the cop and the scum rc balances the town rc and the RBer balances the jailkeep but what scum PR balances the doc?

[SilverWolf]

Well, I'm no expert on this but zakk did say the game was only reviewed for Normalcy and not balance.

But you make decent points Thor and I feel slightly less whiny than I did in dead chat-LOL.

[SilverWolf]

Well, I'm no expert on this but zakk did say the game was only reviewed for Normalcy and not balance.

But you make decent points Thor and I feel slightly less whiny than I did in dead chat-LOL.

Speaking of, is dead chat going to get released?

It's perfectly okay if you guys shit-talked me a bunch in there; I'd completely understand, since I was on your wagons. I'd still love to read it! XD

Ciara only made one post, WW wasn't in it. zakk and I talked about my decision to cc pista which he disagree'd with, then we talked about the game being unbalanced and how often he did VC's, the rest was me whining and crying about the injustice of it all. Oh and I did mention I disagree'd with the Thor kill N2.

I was not mad about your attempted vote on me. But it did look like an obvious bus. I would of voted me earlier if I was you.

[SilverWolf]

But I did PM zakk and say I was ok with dead and scum PT's being released. They are both still private atm, but hopefully he'll release them soon.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah but the game was being broken by PR's so the only chance you had, even if small, was to take out the doc.

That's just my opinion.

[SilverWolf]

Well, I'm no expert on this but zakk did say the game was only reviewed for Normalcy and not balance.

But you make decent points Thor and I feel slightly less whiny than I did in dead chat-LOL.

I love how good of a sport you are about admitting how whiny you were

#respekt

Thanks zakk.

[SilverWolf]

Also did my scum read on dave actually save him from being shot.

Yes, it helped.

[SilverWolf]

No lynching just delays the game for no reason.

Too bad there's not a way to just concede the game.

Lol, Silverwolf! Believe me, I thought about it. XD

I was really tempted to at least self-hammer to end the game... but I decided against it. I was gonna make those guys take it all the way home.

I admire this. You have a better fight 'til the end attitude than I do. I usually kind of give up. Only when I'm almost certain to lose but yeah, it's kind of an issue with me.

[SilverWolf]

Lol even after the game you're looking for scumreads? Man, I wasn't going to say anything, but this is like the tenth time, at least, that you've patted yourself on the back in this thread. It's getting old, man. Look around, there are other experienced players here, and none of them are doing the same.

Re:Eventi. He was anemic in post-count (especially at the time I said that), but decent in post quality, and a potentially strong adversary.

If I look at what scum did and why I can get better reads for future games so hunting for reasons why scum did what after the game can help improve your game. But guess what bud I had to go through the whole game thinking I was wrong about mostly everything and being put down by other players since I wasn't correct on some of my other reads and have some cunt who shall not be named during the game be a dick towards me So now at the end of the game when I find out I wasn't entirely wrong ect. So what if I want to make myself better about this game since I felt useless as fuck day 2 and beyond it doesn't hurt you.

I do the same thing. Post game, I look at what I did wrong and also what I did right. I like to try to learn something from it all to improve my play going forward.

[SilverWolf]

Yes, thank you zakk for modding and inviting me!!