Mini 1720 Number Mafia | Endgame snuggles

[DeasVail]

I am here!!!

IN NUMBERS

And I'm ready to catch those scummy letters like x that really so desperately want to be numbers, but they can't be!!! THEY JUST CAN'T.

Page 1 Impression: Most of it doesn't seem incredibly readable to me, except that BBT does legitimately seem suss. I haven't played with him before though, so to anyone that has, is he one of those players you'd expect to be ~spr srs~ even when no one else is. Otherwise, he kind of looks like tryhard scum. Conversely lalalaGIRAFFE gets a totally irrational early townread for agreeing with me even though that probably isn't even a reliable tell. Yay!

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Page 2:

Claim: VT

Will flirt for reads.

Hey bb

Yep, that's it for page 2.

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PAGE 3:

Eh

PAGE 4:

Jar Jar Drinks is town. MTD might be scum. Yay reads!

Page 5:

I asked lala to vote with me because I wanted a snappish wagon, so I figured a voting bloc of the aussies might be a decent way to make it happen.

I'm sorry that I wasn't here!

Page 6:

To respond to whoever it was that asked, yes, the VT claim was terrible. I think we were all just assuming it was a joke. The more we talk about it, the worse it gets, but on the bright side, Espeonage is now a great compromise lynch if we have any game day in which we collectively do poorly enough to need one.

Reading up on the other stuffs..

I am of the opinion that the more we talk about it, the better it gets. Espe is the only one that knows why he claimed, and if he's town, then he's the one with the power to give the impression that he wants. If he's scum, then the discussion will only serve to make him more transparent.

This post is interesting to me though. You have stated that discussion only makes it worse, but this can only be your opinion if Espe is town (there is absolutely no reason to care about discussion of a VT claim by scum). However, you have also set Espe up as a "compromise lynch", so basically the vibe I'm getting is that you don't think he's scum but want to lynch him anyway. Am I wrong?

You clarify your read in your next post, but still, if you think he's town why compromise on him. I'm not going to let town lynch my townreads if I can help it.

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Page 7:

espeonage is pretty sketch?? (what the heck that claim oh man)

Why do you have a problem with the claim? Your whole reaction to it seems pretty fake to me.

[DeasVail]

Particularly his townread on me feels somewhat out of order.

I like it how you vote him with that as a reason without even investigating the townread.

[DeasVail]

espy, read on dv?

If he scumreads me then it's only because he desires more passion in our relationship.

[DeasVail]

Scumreads on lalalaGIRAFFE, MTD and I'll sheep Anti and go with Wanderer for a third.

VOTE: lalalaGIRAFFE

[DeasVail]

Hey!

But yes, you got the poop part right.

I like your other reasons for voting Espe (even if I don't agree that he's scum for them. My read on him is pretty null atm), though your issue with the claim is confusing to me as it seems pretty clearly to me the kind of thing he'd do as either alignment. And I mean, I don't really expect anything different?

PEdit: It's ok Anti. If lalala is scum then my shoulder won't be the only tear-soaked one.

[DeasVail]

It'll be ok Anti!

IT'S ALL GOING TO BE OK

[DeasVail]

i'm not actually voting him though

That'll teach me to actually read things properly!

And mollie, it hurts me too.

[DeasVail]

MY EYES ARE WATERING AND IT MIGHT BE BECAUSE I AM SLEEP-DEPRIVED AND UNWELL BUT I WILL SAY THAT IT IS BECAUSE YOUR VOTE MAKES ME SAD.

Seriously though, I would much prefer it if you didn't scumread me.

[DeasVail]

Thank you <3

[DeasVail]

Mild townreads on both but not at all confident.

[DeasVail]

I don't have a read on her so if you're confident in the read then I'd be willing to help you out with that. You just have to convince me that you're town first.

[DeasVail]

I realised my initial read of him was sort of invalid based on what other people have said about his play. He's definitively not a townread for me though, as I haven't seen anything from him that's not especially likely from scum, and one of the main reasons he's still on my radar is that the tongue-in-cheek over-use of questions is the kind of thing I could see coming from scum trying to look like they don't care. (but also possible from town, hence not a scumread).

[DeasVail]

MTD: What I mean is that Espe gave quite a vague reason for his townread of you. What I find disturbing is that you went straight for voting for Espe, citing his townread of you as one of the reasons, though you make no real attempt to understand the townread at all. Would anyone townreading you be considered scummy? Is it just Espe? Are you just using it as a convenient reason to scumread someone? Tell me what's up.

I've lost my passion for an MTD scumread tbh, but I'd still like a response to the above.

--

BBT: I believe you're over-reacting to my comment on you. I even mentioned that it might be how you play so I'd need an answer of that. Later I said you were no longer a scumread because it became obvious that it was a "you" thing. It made me suspicious as an early thing because everyone else was still not taking the game very seriously while you were being ultra-serious. I could see this coming from scum so concerned about looking pro-town that it consumes their very being, but from you I no longer consider it alignment-relevant and have said as much. We're good, it's ok.

Most of my reads are at least partially explained throughout my posts. Jar Jar Drinks is not but I'm not especially inclined to explain it right now. Just now that I see him as the most town person here and if anyone tries to lynch them I will strike with a vengeance.

I don't mean this in a demeaning way or anything, but are you normally this grumpy? I mean, your complaints about me seem pretty far-fetched, and as I said, most of my stated reads shouldn't be too hard to work out based on my posts.

[DeasVail]

I also meant the try-harding thing since I did correct it based on the vibe I was getting from the rest of the game, but understood.

[DeasVail]

Antihero, I am about to move my vote, but the startling inconsistencies from mollie make me cautious. I feel like she'd be able to avoid that degree of messy play as scum. Overall I'm still scumreading her though, but it almost seems too easy.

[DeasVail]

I didn't have a read on you before. I'd probably appeal to emotions regardless though. Idk.

[DeasVail]

I didn't have a read on you before. I'd probably appeal to emotions regardless though. Idk.

okay so walk me through as to why you think I am scum.

Your play and your reads all feel manufactured.

My biggest issue is 257 after your changes in read on Anti. There you acknowledge your slow start to the game, yet earlier (246), you act as if there's no way town-Anti scumreads you. The timing of the unvote is also suspicious. You don't have a higher priority target, nor is Antihero in danger of getting lynched. You also worry about your flip looking bad on Anti when you haven't really decided what your read of him is yet.

You talk about running up ducks, though your one comment is not really going to achieve that.

Though probably at least half of my scumread on you is trust in Antihero's read.

<3 Bella. I hope things go okay.

[DeasVail]

JarJar: I am also concerned with DRK considering Espe a compromise lynch, possibly moreso than when I first questioned him on it.

BBT: The fence is really quite comfortable at the moment. Closer to deadline perhaps it won't be, but for now, I'm pain-free!

In all seriousness though, my doubts are exactly as they were stated. I have a stronger scumread than I did before based on my own reflection on her posts and your own questions to her reaffirming my opinion. However, it's a really messy game from her if scum. I also was interested in how Antihero would respond to my opinion, if at all. A read on him is quite relevant to a read on mollie.

A great side effect of a DRK lynch is if he/she is red, it basically confirms Esp, MTD and bella as town

I believe this is a bit of a stretch at first glance. I may have a different opinion after thinking about it but I could see scum (dishonestly) referring to a partner as misguided.

[DeasVail]

BBT you better deliver because I currently think you're scum.

[DeasVail]

Your wagon won't be a vanity wagon for long - trust me.

^

Or pretty much anything on All Alone that sways me from the opinion that you're scum feigning confidence.

[DeasVail]

Not buying it scumlord.

Wait, why did you call him a scumlord? Are you scum trying to do what you think townies do or something?

[DeasVail]

Pretty sure now that MTD is town btw.

(sorry MTD)

[DeasVail]

I mean, you're voting and reasoning has been pretty terrible so far so once people start paying attention to you I'm sure you'll start picking up votes.

This really doesn't do anything for me...

Unless I'm supposed to be scared by:

I mean, if you can't see that All Alone is scum I'm not sure what I can do for you...

???

And regarding MTD, the fact that he hasn't done much doesn't really prevent me from having a decent read on him. I could very well be wrong and that goes without saying for all my reads, but I think he's town!

[DeasVail]

Are you trying to make me go back to scumreading MTD? Or are you trying to convince me I'm insane, or do you think I'm scum and equating SithLord to MTD is supposed to make me quake in fear or something?

PEdit: First, All Alone never actually claimed you didn't have a problem with her lack of vote. He said you didn't seem to be scumreading her. Now, I don't like his reasons and disagree, but he had a somewhat skewed interpretation of your posts, and you had a somewhat skewed interpretation of his. He might be scum, you might be town, I don't know! Though to me he doesn't seem nearly as scummy as your posts suggest.

Also, I believe we see the game differently and you are taking a lot more stock in logic and arguments and reasoning etc. whereas I see town as often making bad arguments and scum often making good ones. I don't think one method is really superior to the other, and I could probably do with paying more attention to the way you seem to be reading people, though my opinions are as I have stated them.

PEDit: If you voted Lala on impulse then All Alone was right that you didn't scumread her before??? I don't get it.

PEdit: Thanks for the answer!

[DeasVail]

I don't have a comfortable opinion on who's scum right now so I will sleep and hope my dreams reveal the answers!! (my dreams always tell me someone's scum when they're actually town. It's good stuff!)

[DeasVail]

whereas I see town as often making bad arguments and scum often making good ones.

I should clarify that this doesn't mean:

bad argument = town
good argument = scum

just that both can occur from both alignments.

[DeasVail]

hi dv.

if you don't notice you have a shadow right now, you're stupid.

What do you mean by a shadow?

Deas, Jar and Mollie are all positioning themselves to vote me.

This is disgusting. Like vultures circling around a carcass.

No, I'm much more inclined to vote for Mollie. You can relax for the time being. But is JarJar setting himself up to vote you, really? I don't see it.

Oh never mind Anti! And yes, I noticed.

alright, dv, i'm about to start strongarming the mollie lynch and i'm wondering what type of psychological warfare works on you.

should i go with:

1) the neg. insult you and wear down your self esteem enough to where you feel like such crap that you look for a leader and find that in me.

2) the suck up. compliment you and bargain for tomorrow's lynch.

3) the psycho. threaten to fly to sydney and rub my anal secretions on your doorknobs if you don't vote mollie.

i usually go w/ a combination of 1+3, but i'm flexible. plz advise.

None is necessary considering that I was always going to vote for mollie anyway, but the combination of 1 & 3 is perfect. That said though, I don't feel any great rush to vote as I think mollie's been transparent enough that pressure's not going to add a whole lot more, and I can't decide who else is scum.

This has already been addressed by someone (espe himself, I think), but you've failed to notice the different tenses of the sentences you've bolded. We were assuming the claim was a joke. Then Espe told us it wasn't a joke. Now he is etc.

My main problem was you writing him off as a compromise lynch despite not thinking him scum, which I think was also JarJar's concern?

[DeasVail]

Unvote: lalalaGIRAFFE
Vote: Pirate Mollie

[DeasVail]

I don't, the part about not knowing who else is scum made me hesitant to go for a lynch.

And if you keep this up I'll move off the wagon.

[DeasVail]

lalala, I would be pretty surprised if mollie flips town at this point.

(and feel free to say I'm terrible if she does)

[DeasVail]

VOTE: jarjar

policy

Mate, remember when I was misguided and you steered me to the path of light?

You need some of that now.

[DeasVail]

I think mollie is scum more than ever now and it's disappointing to me that the wagon is disintegrating.

Her reaction to her wagon does not match what I would expect from town. She states that the suspicion of her is hampering her ability to contribute to the game and I get this, it happens to me as town to. Though where I imagine town would be apathetic here, she's quite clearly not, and her spamposts indicate that no, she still has something to achieve here. My belief is that it's a last ditch attempt to actually stop herself from being lynched.

Maybe I'm wrong here, so I welcome the opinion of anyone who disagrees.

[DeasVail]

Hmmm, if you did think that JarJar was setting himself up to vote you, why didn't you see what would happen rather than call him out early? It was a pretty premature accusation.

[DeasVail]

PEdit - Deas, it wasn't a premature accusation, I think that's exactly what was about to happen (did you reread the interaction?) When scum get called out for lining up a vote, I find it makes them much more hesitant to actually commit because people can then see how they were building up to it.

Did you notice how instead of voting me, Mollie instead chose the line of 'Can we lynch BBT now'...why is she pushing me when she hasn't even committed her vote to me yet? Because of what I said, that's why.

Town don't care for such things, they just go ahead and do what they wanna do.

You don't need to do any convincing for me when it comes to mollie. I agree with you on that. I've reread the JarJar interaction and I don't think there's enough there to believe he would have moved to a scumread on you.

[DeasVail]

I may know why the lack of kill happened but I may not!

(Also sorry mollie)

[DeasVail]

Curious as to what other people think of those posts. I really haven't read you as scum @ all this game. That just seems pretty bad though.

the claimed roleblock + no kill looks worse than the stuff in the links. but dv softed ~something else~ so that's kind of a wash..f dsjla;jfiewova4h8gfha

#mealymouthingisgreat

Yeah I don't know. I'm not going to elaborate but it is possible that there was a different reason for the lack of kill. That said, I believe All Alone's claim (especially after I said I might know why the kill didn't happen). First reaction is that BBT is scum because he was someone I was considering yesterday, but I still need to re-sort my reads after I was clearly wrong yesterday and the roleblock result can't be taken as definite.

[DeasVail]

I can't catch up on the game right now.

First impressions are that I don't like the wanderer wagon and still that BBT is scum but I haven't read properly.

Also I have problems with Fro but I don't know whether they're scummy or not. Will ask questions tomorrow!

[DeasVail]

still not caught up but the slip accusation on wanderer was a bad one. Not sure if she's done anything scummy since. Will read tonight.

[DeasVail]

STOP BEING BUSY PLEASE LIFE

[DeasVail]

Sorry about my absence during Day 2. Looking through everything now.

[DeasVail]

VOTE: BBT

If BBT somehow flips town, All Alone and Ducky become super sus. There are ways scum could gambit this, but it's not as likely as stopping the kill because that would be dumb. In frog Maf, scum NK'd because they were down to one player, which made sense at that time to throw some WIFOM into the game, but it seems too early for a gambit like that here.

I also think BBT helping to re-ignite the Mollie wagon is scummy.

Finally in frog g Maf he was more conversational despite being framed. He was more defensive here, and I think he made a reactionary mistake here about the roleblock not stopping kills. He was being framed in Frog Maf, but wasn't defensive/reactionary.

Here I don't like you voting BBT but saying that All Alone and lala are sus if BBT flips town, especially All Alone. If they are a town roleblocker and roleblocked BBT I've already stated that I know of at least one other way the kill could have been stopped. So it doesn't make All Alone scum at all. You're turning the BBT/All Alone thing into a pseudo-1v1 and I haven't made up my mind on BBT yet but if he's town then it's pretty ehhhhh. That was my thought process at the time anyway, but I think you're town now that I'm reading through so NEVER MIND.

Regarding Wanderer's 'slip', it's possible, though at the time I thought it would be a reasonable expectation for town to just assume that I have an action. So I wasn't going to take it as a particularly scummy thing. Still not sure whether it was an actual slip or it wasn't, though obviously I'm glad she was lynched.

Wow...horrible quick hammer by All Alone. I didn't even get to log on and unvote to discuss this.

Dammit hydra slip

:/ I think you're town but why did you call it horrible???

And why do you think I'm scum? For suspecting mollie? I don't get it, nor why it has to be one of me and BBT.

[DeasVail]

:/ I think you're town but why did you call it horrible???

Why do you now think I'm town?

My initial reaction was the quickhammer was bad because it cut discussion off. A last few words from wanderer about reads would have been helpful. But, jar jar made a good point and I agreed

Hi all,

Yeah, I've had a week of low-impact mafia-ing. I've been reading, though.

DV, top scum/town reads from your catch up?

Frog, how do you feel about DV's last post- I was confused to see a town read for you in it, from the rest of it.

Answers to these (along with reads being updated) tomorrow!

[DeasVail]

Wanderer claiming to watch nobody visit BBT while I wasn't on the wagon at L-1 was an extremely risky play. I don't think it's likely that she overlooked the possibility of me hammering, and I really don't think it's likely she'd take that risk to defend BBT unless they were partners.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

I don't understand why this move from Wanderer makes BBT more likely scum. I don't see it doing anything to protect him and if anything it makes more sense as an attempt to distance herself from you. I think it's more likely a desperate claim from her that she didn't think was going to work, but in order of likelihood as far as I'm concerned:

Her claim was a desperate last resort >>> Final way of distancing from her scumbuddy (you) >>>>>>>>>>> Protecting BBT somehow???

I might be missing something but I don't see how that was going to ever be successful in protecting BBT considering she was most likely going to be lynched.

JarJar's already onto it though. Love him. <3

Deas, you need to say what you think might have happened N1 because a large portion of why I am suspicious of you is you seem somewhat happy to let me take the fall for something that you think might not have even happened. Fro99er is using this to line up lynches and I think he knows more than he is letting on.

BBT, I can't be your knight in shining armour and rescue you from the likely combination of (I'm starting to believe) misguided town and evil evil scummy scumz that are trying to get you lynched. All I can say is what I have already said. I know of a possible explanation for the lack of kill, different from All Alone's roleblock. It's hard for me to say how likely that is. I consider it possible but by no means definite. I'm not willing to elaborate at this point. If you want to suspect me then go ahead but I think it'd be a waste of effort regardless of your alignment. I don't mean to scare you away from me or anything (although that would be nice), but I very much doubt that I'm going to be lynched.

This. Let's talk and think about this and look at the current game state.

Do you have a theory you want to share? Or anything else to say on the matter? Bias shouldn't stop you from speaking your mind.

I'm still deciding what I think of BBT and Fro99er and that will happen in my next post (which will be in the next half hour or so)

[DeasVail]

BBT TWINKLE THINK:

My first reaction to All Alone's roleblock and BBT's response was the following:

"BBT is totes the scumzors and soooooo scummy for apparently not knowing what a roleblock is LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH"

But now I don't know.

I'll pretend that I'm hypothetical scum BBT who tried to shoot someone but was foiled by the great roleblocker All Alone, never to commit the murder he so desperately desired.

I see All Alone's post. Now even if I don't really think that roleblockers block scum kills, surely if I was the one that made the kill attempt, it didn't go through, AND someone claimed to have roleblocked me, surely I would put two and two together and realise... Damn! Roleblockers must block scum kills as well.

Ok, I don't want to be hypothetical scum BBT anymore. That was kind of weird. BUT, does BBT make that sort of post in response to the roleblocker claim as scum? When I made my last post my thought was no, but now I've realised that even assuming that BBT didn't know that roleblockers blocked scum kills (and thought this was some weird variant or whatever), he could still make that post as scum in an attempt to convince everyone that this rb is what he thought was a normal roleblocker. However, one thing I do need to say is that regardless of his alignment, I don't think BBT was making up his lack of roleblocker knowledge. If he actually knew what a roleblocker was then he'd know how inconclusive All Alone's claim was and not risk getting caught out in a lie ----> autolynched. I've seen town forget their role before and be caught out in a lie during massclaim. Stranger things have happened.

So summary is that I no longer think his thing about not knowing roleblockers is particularly alignment-relevant. The increased likelihood of being scum due to the roleblock still stands, but this is not a certain thing and I'm not going to lynch him for this reason.

But what do I actually think of BBT?

The things that most strike me upon re-ISOing him are:
-338, which I still don't like. The explanation he provided in 582 also does not satisfy me entirely. It seems more of an attempt to get people to not suspect him rather than having any real town benefit.
-If BBT is scum I don't think he made the shot.
Reason: I've already decided that I don't think BBT was lying about the roleblock thing. And now I've realised that upon being blocked he probably would have been reminded of the fact or looked into whether roleblockers actually commonly blocked scum kills, which I think would have discouraged BBT-scum from reacting in such a way to the claim.
Sorry for my mess of thoughts regarding that, but I believe if BBT was scum that made the kill he would have taken a different, less risky approach. I'm worried I'm totally wrong but it's what I think atm.
I also think that if he had, Wanderer wouldn't have made 704 after everyone else seemed to be assuming BBT was scum.

My current read on BBT is town, mostly due to the above, plus Wanderer going for All Alone (which I do suspect she would have avoided if BBT was her partner). However, I'm not confident in this read.

Fixed tag fail. --P

[DeasVail]

I thought Fro99er was town because he seemed largely responsible for the wanderer wagon getting to such a height. Even if he intended the slip to be bad reasoning, it really did seem like Wanderer's post was an attempt to work out what my ~claim~ meant, and this was likely to get people's attention. So is Fro99er just a florid busser or what?

(Also BBT I'd like to hear why you think Fro99er went on an all out Wanderer attack)

Though thinking know that if he thought I was scum with wanderer then that doesn't really fit with why he thought Wanderer was scum (trying to work out what my claim meant, for example)

752 was ultra weird, but again I don't know why he'd go on an all out bus as scum and then abandon the wagon after it's gained some steam. Surely he'd realise at that point that once Wanderer was lynched it would look super sus?

And the voting again in 769 also made me think town. Much too haphazard for scum was my thought.

However, his posts today about one of BBT and I having to be scum, as well as using the mollie wagon against us, make me super confused about his alignment again. I am looking forward to his response to that.

[DeasVail]

DV who do you actually scum read? You now have said you town read both me and BBT

Fro, I'm not interested in answering your questions until you explain what needs to be sorted out about me and BBT.

(Also I don't have any scumreads atm but sssshhhh)

[DeasVail]

I don't have much more time tonight so aimless wondering when it comes to reads will have to stop (I'm sad too, it's ok).

My impression atm is that lalalaGIRAFFE is town (will confirm that this is my read of her and explain later), which would mean that by my current thinking all the noise is being made by town. I don't know how comfortable I am with that but I wouldn't be opposed to thinking scum are people such as Bella, Espe or DRK.

Still though, my Fro99er and BBT are as shaky as reads can be really so while I'd put DRK, Espe and Bella as most likely scum imo right now, this could change in an instant!

[DeasVail]

Thank you for your edit Plotinus <3

[DeasVail]

lol, BBT if you really are town this game that is the worst vote ever.

Would also like to comment that I think his reasons for suspecting you are pretty good so if you're town please get off your high frog and explain your reasoning.

[DeasVail]

I would think so too but his play today confuses me an incredible amount and I want him to make me feel all good inside but he won't.

[DeasVail]

I've been ruder than I should have been though and I apologise for that.

[DeasVail]

BBT, I can't work out from 905 whether you think you'll be lynched or you don't.

then we lynch all alone!!

Is there a reason you think scum must be between BBT and All Alone? As far as I know, All Alone could have easily roleblocked a town-BBT, but I'm not sure if I'm missing something here.

Espe, I have a strong townread on JarJar. Also, I said a similar thing when I mentioned that I thought scum were likely among DRK/Bella/you. Why is he scum for it and not me? Same question to MTD. I don't see any real difference between JarJar's posts and mine beyond him using the word 'lurker' and me not. I also had a townread on MTD ages ago, but I don't know.

I agree with [someone] (forgot who and to lazy to look it up) that its tempting to just lynch one of AA and DV to see what's going on. OTOH it actually wouldn't clear things up for sure anyway except if DV is scum. If that's the case BBT is his partner. If not, no idea.

The 'claims' made by AA and I aren't incompatible so lynching one of us shouldn't be tempting? And if I'm scum then why is BBT my partner?

I don't understand the connection between us.

[DeasVail]

Apart from the connection to dv he's null for the reasons dv stated.

Also do you have any impression from his other posts? The roleblock isn't the only thing we have that we can read him from.

[DeasVail]

Bella, what about me confuses you?

lalala, I'm really torn on BBT.

Vote: Bellaphant

[DeasVail]

And if I'm scum then why is BBT my partner?

I don't understand the connection between us.

simply because if you are scum I see no reason not to believe the roleblock claim...

With how common doctor-esque roles are I would be hesitant to assume the roleblock meant BBT-scum.

Espe, I have a strong townread on JarJar. Also, I said a similar thing when I mentioned that I thought scum were likely among DRK/Bella/you. Why is he scum for it and not me? Same question to MTD. I don't see any real difference between JarJar's posts and mine beyond him using the word 'lurker' and me not. I also had a townread on MTD ages ago, but I don't know.

Uhm, I've never said jarjar was scum.... I even explicitely said he was likely town...

Sorry, that was my mistake. I should have paid more attention.

lalala, I'm really torn on BBT.

I assume it's for the same reasons I am. He doesn't really read scum, but there's something up w/ this combination of stuffs:

- The no-kill night 1
- The All Alone roleblock claim (also BBT saying he didnt know he could be blocked)
- Your soft claim
- The Anti kill instead of U or AA

You have an additional piece of information since U know exactly what U are. DV, if you're bulletproof then I'd say that AA or BBT almost HAVE to be scum because:

- If they attacked you then they know ur not a medic and should have definitely killed the claimed town roleblocker

- If they didnt attack you then that could explain why they went after Anti since they were afraid u could be a medic and protect AA and they didnt want risk a 2nd night w/o a kill. This would point to BBT being the attacker and AA blocked him

IMO, the first is more likely.

JarJar, my internal conflict stems from that as well as something about BBT's posting that I can't place but makes me feel he's scum. I've been worried that this is because I'm not familiar with him as a player and that my tendency to scumread him is merely playstyle-associated and an error in my own reading of him. However, I think I may have tried too hard to logic myself into some sort of townread on BBT, and this doesn't sit right.

My thoughts have been wildly all over the place recently and for that I apologise, though I think I've settled on:

TOWNTOWNTOWN: All Alone, JarJar, lalalaGIRAFFE

Slightly more town than the rest: MTD, Fro99er (pending actually answering posts from BBT and myself)

Considering for scum: Espeonage, DRK, Bellaphant, BBT

Current guess for scumteam: Bellaphant, BBT

HOWEVER, putting BBT here makes me slightly uncomfortable because of wanderer's posts.

Lalala, do you think I'm crazy in thinking that wanderer playing against the grain and attacking All Alone over BBT makes BBT more likely town? I'm pretty sure you're town and I like your read on BBT, though my tendency in this sort of situation would be to lynch/vig Bella who I'd feel more comfortable with dead (<3 you Bella). If you tell me to vote BBT, I will though. (And this isn't an attempt to put the blame on you if he does flip town. I take full responsibility for whatever vote I make)

BBT is going to hate this post so much.

[DeasVail]

DV, talk to me rather than vote me, kktnx. So, you softed a claim, but your response to Frog looked really confused, and now this vote. It's like I keep trying to town-read you on it keeps slipping off.

Well, I do think people are making a bigger deal about my claim than it really deserves, but I can understand you being confused about that, that is my intention really. However, my response to Frog is confused because he was acting as if one of BBT and I has to be scum and that one of us needs to be lynched and I didn't understand that.

Though I think you're the most likely to be scum here and I don't need to talk to you to think that. If I change my mind I will take my vote off, but for now (and maybe for longer than that), it stays.

JarJar, those are my thoughts exactly regarding BBT/Wanderer, though I'm hesitant to call BBT town just from them. It's holding me back from wanting to lynch him though.

[DeasVail]

Will catch up on this as soon as I can.

[DeasVail]

Ok it's Friday afternoon now so WEEKEND and NOT AS BUSY WOOOOO.

Will catch up soon, but a few things.

BBT, I have made quite clear that there's nothing I could say that would clear you.

And now that my formerly-ongoing scum game has finally ended I can express that this is my first town game all year and I'm so ridiculously happy that I'm not scum.

(That probably sounds scummy but whatever, it's true)

(And that even moreso, oh dear)

(I DON'T CARE)

Proper post later today/tonight

[DeasVail]

I think that BBT and Bella are scum together.

[DeasVail]

I still am more confident in Bella-scum but consider my vote available for BBT too.

Also feel slightly uncomfortable with Fro99er never explaining his concerning posts so that's definitely a possible blind spot for me, but I'm not willing to get too paranoid about that right now.

[DeasVail]

Yeah, DRK is my alternate for either of them right now. I'm always worrying I'm completely off with my reads so I'm definitely not dismissing DRK as town.

[DeasVail]

JarJar, you seemed quite reluctant until just recently yourself. Why did you think I'd be less so?

[DeasVail]

Oh yeah, and I'll officially claim intent to hammer and whatnot.

[DeasVail]

secondly I'd kind of like an answer to my question to dv before the day ends.

If you don't want me to talk about it then I'm not going to answer questions from you requiring that I do.

[DeasVail]

Oh I think I misunderstood your post. I thought you were implying that because I was talking about ~PRs~, I must be scum, but I see you meant something else.

It didn't matter whether I was scum or not, but you were displaying an attitude where me being town would be the only reason you didn't consider BBT auto-scum and I don't want your opinion on my alignment to affect how you view BBT, as even if I were scum, there'd probably be a greater than 50% chance of some kind of kill-stopping role existing for the town.

[DeasVail]

@DV, if BBT flips red, would scum!me really spend this long defending him? Really?

You tell me!

[DeasVail]

Reading up now.

[DeasVail]

oh ok then

Vote: BlueBloodedToffee

[DeasVail]

Me too. I don't care about the order personally and am happy to claim right now if no one else cares.

[DeasVail]

I'm 1-shot bulletproof. Wouldn't have expected to be the kill target night 1 if it weren't for the fact that I was trying to subtly hint at being masons with JarJar day 1. And even then I thought it most likely that if scum tried to kill me it probably wouldn't be for that reason. In any case, the possibility of either that or a doctor existing in the game made me hesitant to assume BBT-scum.

Popcorn to JarJar.

VOTE: Bellaphant

[DeasVail]

All Alone is town. He claimed to have roleblocked Bella Night 2. So I don't understand why Bella is trying to get him lynched.

[DeasVail]

Unvote: Bellaphant

though.

[DeasVail]

I think that's a bit of a leap (har har). If I were scum in that scenario I would advocate for a kill by the same person.

However, my previous scumread on Bella has been shaken somewhat.

[DeasVail]

Um ok.

[DeasVail]

I haven't read up yet, but it's probably not a very good plan.

[DeasVail]

In the neighborhood PT she also said she'd sheep me D2. The only hint of that I see is her saying she's d vote ducky with me

I thought she neighbourized you N3 though?

@dv: how do we know AA is town?

He's the main reason why BBT was lynched. Also really unnecessary early claim if he's scum. All the claim switching is also something that would only bring upon suspicion of him and scum won't like that, while it seemed to work pretty well for town. Only reservation is the DRK kill because I'm not sure if scum would have believed All Alone's new role claim.

[DeasVail]

Frogger, I think it's cool that you're coming up with plans, but I don't appreciate you coercing the whole town into following you when they're not that well thought through. You say that the set-up would be townsided with a 1-shot BP, RB, JOAT and innocent child, but if we're using your set-up as direct comparison then I'd say that yours isn't any less town-sided. The idea that there must be scum between Bella and I is ridiculous and I hope you can see that.

I am not going to let myself be lynched today. Obviously I can't stop you, but I think a lot of my play all game makes sense from a town standpoint.

My suggestion would be to lynch MTD today.

[DeasVail]

I agree with you though that Bella is probably town. Town would be too weak otherwise I think.

PEdit: Yeah, I don't think there was. Just clarifying that she actually did neighbourize you last night and not earlier.

[DeasVail]

True, but I'm town so I don't really care what makes sense to you and what doesn't. You're wrong in any case, and lynching me doesn't have any benefit unless I'm scum.

I'm not going to go for a plan which has me lynched regardless of my BP status. If you're scared I might be scum then that's your problem. I'm always worried that there'll be someone like JarJar or Espe who is scum and that lynching me would waste an opportunity to lynch one of them if we are wrong in our current thinking as to them being town.

[DeasVail]

Espe is not scum

He isn't.

I townread him, but you're making an assumption that I believe is unsafe in most cases, and is most certainly not something I would put faith in in Espe's case.

PEdit: Of me, or everyone else?

[DeasVail]

VOTE: MTD

If MTD is town, my next shot for scum would be Espeonage, fwiw.

Also if the green ribbity frog changes his mind and votes for me again, please everyone else ignore him and lynch MTD.

[DeasVail]

[DeasVail]

i am going to take a page from dv's "just got lynched book" cos I really admire how he has always handled it.

For a moment I thought it was going to happen to me again here!!! Really sorry about thinking you were scum though.

-

Thanks for the game everyone. Not too pleased with my reads this game, but happy with the dysfunctional chemistry between All Alone and I Night 1. I had a feeling that BBT was scum but didn't make the kill but then I thought it was egotistical of me to think that my crumbing worked and that scum shot me. I never really had a doctor claim in mind though. My response to mollie was more of a 'something a PR might say' but I didn't really have anything in mind. Had a super strong townread on Jarjar and he seemed to have one on me too so I thought why not just super buddy him? Shame that didn't eventuate in anything, but hey, can't complain.

I think this was one of those great games filled with town disagreements and tension and what not, but Day 2, 3 and 4 we always came together to get a scum lynch and I find that strangely beautiful.

Plotinus you were a wonderful mod and reading your dead PT posts was a real treat.