MINI 1721 — ✌ — GAME OVER

[Ankamius]

hi

I have to go take a shower, but I'll do stuff when I'm back.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: VeeGee

I concur that Davsto is likely scum. I'll abstain from voting for the moment so I don't get herpaderp behind tomorrow.

[Ankamius]

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Ankamius]

Hold up

GIF is in this game?

[Ankamius]

That changes everything. He's number one priority to read now.

[Ankamius]

GIF is town.

Back to our scheduled whatever else we were doing before this.

[Ankamius]

What else is happening? My head's not in the game enough to be comfortable ending the day yet.

[Ankamius]

I ISOed him. What's your point?

[Ankamius]

Intent, Davsto.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE:

I'd rather ank not hammer before fully catching up.

It seems really sketch to come in, ISO 1-2 people, and declare intent to hammer without knowing the whole game state yet.

Also - it's the ASP slot I was scum reading, soooo

I don't need the whole picture. If I'm looking at the entire picture before the endgame, then I'm almost always completely off-base. It's more than enough to have a significant scumread on someone who's on the chopping block and a few reads outside of that for tomorrow.

[Ankamius]

Davsto + Fro99er scumteam is what I'm going to work with right now. Those associations are horrendous and the fact that Fro99er immediately jumped on me for being willing to end the day before 'fully catching up' when I gave no indication whatsoever that I was waiting to fully catch up while Davsto immediately ran with it to fake a scumread on me is telling.

VOTE: Davsto

[Ankamius]

It's a lot more accurate to say I'm reading you as scum based on associatives based on a scumread on Fro99er in that sense, but that's not the only reason I'm scumreading you, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ankamius]

Lolololololololololololololololololol at ank

[Ankamius]

What would be the point of doing that right now, exactly?

[Ankamius]

Townreads on two people I already know I can work with.

[Ankamius]

Davsto + Fro99er scumteam is what I'm going to work with right now. Those associations are horrendous and the fact that Fro99er immediately jumped on me for being willing to end the day before 'fully catching up' when I gave no indication whatsoever that I was waiting to fully catch up while Davsto immediately ran with it to fake a scumread on me is telling.

VOTE: Davsto

Huh. I guess I'm just the unpopular opinion, aren't I.

...what?

[Ankamius]

the fact that Fro99er immediately jumped on me for being willing to end the day before 'fully catching up' when I gave no indication whatsoever that I was waiting to fully catch up [snip Davsto stuff] is telling.

VOTE: Davsto

No, no indication whatsoever.

What else is happening? My head's not in the game

enough

to be comfortable ending the day yet.

This one word changes the entire meaning.

[Ankamius]

I refuse to believe you're this bad, Metal Sonic.

[Ankamius]

I've already shown why his posts about me wanting to hammer while behind are wrong, and his only other point on me is that I got a townread on GIF very fast, which pretty much anyone who was paying any attention to White Flag in team mafia should feel no surprise about.

He literally took an opportunity given to him by Fro99er and faked a scumread off of it. The fact that you're just ignoring it and calling the case obvtown is horrendous.

[Ankamius]

GIF can you quote your reasons on those reads or go into details on them?

[Ankamius]

No. I'm asking because I don't have reads on the majority of the playerlist and you're one of the only townreads I have.

[Ankamius]

I skimmed your ISO and could just tell.

[Ankamius]

Since you hydra'd with me. >_>

[Ankamius]

I threw him back in the null pile when both Davsto and Fro99er flipped town. Has he even posted yet today?

[Ankamius]

eh...

How often does MS make very little sense as either alignment?

[Ankamius]

I'm getting a really awkward vibe from his posts and the fact that after townreading both of the slots that flipped, he somehow went from wanting to wagon me to wagoning Ricastle between day phases doesn't really help it either.

Problem is, that doesn't actually make very much sense as scum unless MS knows me well enough to know that pushing me as scum is usually a bad idea, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't.

[Ankamius]

Good talk.

I'll go sleep now.

[Ankamius]

Problem is, that doesn't actually make very much sense as scum unless MS knows me well enough to know that pushing me as scum is usually a bad idea, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't.

What

I'd push you in a heartbeat as scum given a chance. I don't know where you're getting that idea.

Because it doesn't work and getting pushed is how II get my best reads.

[Ankamius]

I even dropped the hint somewhere.

It has three letters and it's what I use the most.

ah.

Then no, I still don't understand. Because that's what I use and I'm off the wall half the time.

i don't sense fear and uncertainty from you at all
and that's a giant red flag

Actually I've never felt uncertainty when it comes down to my townreads since 2014.
Ever. Not until very late game.

That doesn't make sense to me.


Okay.

Metal Sonic is bugging me too and he's bugging me more than you are so
I think we have common ground here so I'm just gonna work from there
but I don't like walls that don't move
town or scum

wheeee~

VOTE: Bins

[Ankamius]

LOL

That vote hop is awful. Lynch it with fire.

[Ankamius]

I skimmed your ISO and could just tell.

this seems a little like refusing to explain maybe z tiny it?

That's basically all I can say about the read. I read through his ISO and gutread him. That's it.

I threw him back in the null pile when both Davsto and Fro99er flipped town. Has he even posted yet today?

contradictory, and 2 posts lster uses the same reason as a scumtell

How is this even comparable? Metal Sonic had two strong townreads flip town and two strong scumreads on both me and Ricastle, yet he was pushing me before Davsto/Fro99er flipped, and immediately pushed for Ricastle afterwards. I'm contradicting myself by pointing that out when my post was that I'm resetting because I had two incorrect reads?

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Bins

She inadvertently explained what my problem with her posting was, so that sudden push isn't scum anymore.

[Ankamius]

If you have something to say, say it

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Ricastle

[Ankamius]

I'll consider it later.

[Ankamius]

I will continue to not care until you give me a reason to care, RC.

[Ankamius]

Let's say that I'm right and Luna is in fact scum, and that you are town.

Why is it my responsibility to convince you of that fact? I already have my vote where I want it to be.

Why is it my job to give you a "reason" to work toward your own win condition?

Because town is a team that works with incomplete information and trying to get a unified picture of what's going on is how town wins?

[Ankamius]

And so the appropriate response is to completely ignore what information I may or may not have until I give you a "reason"?

This goes both ways, you know.

Yes, the appropriate response when someone pushing an unpopular stance is not willing to try to convince anyone else that they're right is to not care.

[Ankamius]

Discounting pointless information is pro-town.

[Ankamius]

Ank, you're a total faker. You act like you're independent yet you haven't made a single independent move in the whole game aside from a shit light accusation against Fro99er. Every step of the way you've sheeped the popular opinion and hard buddied GIF while doing it. 1218 was you scrambling to find something to defend yourself from, and when that didn't arise, you just OMGUSed, despite the fact that a player of your level should know better than to assume an unexplained vote is scummy - especially when your vote on Bins was effectively one itself! This all adds up to the prime definition of covert coasting.

AND you replaced into the ASP slot, or in other words, the worst content in the game for obvious and previously pointed out reasons.

If anyone has objections to this lynch, I'd love to hear them; but with how this slot has behaved as a whole, I doubt many, if any will be arising.

VOTE: Ricastle

[Ankamius]

1. Assumes things about how GIF and I interact with each other when I gave an explanation in the thread that's provably true.
2. Assumes that his vote on me is the reason I voted for him, despite the fact that he had made several posts between my response to his vote on me and my vote on him. Then he proceeds to try to spin a contradiction in my play from that faulty assumption.
3. The ASP-half of this slot's suspicion is interesting as he was claiming at the end of the second half of day one that attacking ASP was scummy because he's easy to attack.
4. Similarly, he suddenly starts townreading this slot after I replace in, but now my play at that time is scummy.
5. Last line is a preemptive discredit on everyone who tries to debunk his points.

This case is an awful fake.

[Ankamius]

That's all you have to say for yourself?

Yes, it is.

[Ankamius]

I'll get to this tomorrow.

[Ankamius]

1. Assumes things about how GIF and I interact with each other when I gave an explanation in the thread that's provably true.

I made no assumptions about your relations with each other. I merely stated a fact.

I already went into this. Just ignoring facts to make up shit to try to make a case isn't going to win you any favors.

2. Assumes that his vote on me is the reason I voted for him, despite the fact that he had made several posts between my response to his vote on me and my vote on him. Then he proceeds to try to spin a contradiction in my play from that faulty assumption.

If you'd like to clarify why you voted me, then by all means, go ahead. When there is no stated reason for something, the second best thing one can do is assume. And it's hardly like the other posts I made within that timeframe were anywhere near vote-worthy from any perspective regardless, so this isn't a remotely convincing counterargument.[/quote]

If you were town and wanted to know why I was voting for someone, you'd analyze what happened between my vote post and the next post before it. You'd eventually figure out that BBMolla's entrance both began and concluded between those two posts and that you had posted about it twice. If you were as clueless as to why I was suddenly voting for you, you would have attempted to figure it out instead of placing a vote down and calling it a day, especially after I specifically asked if you had something to say about your vote.

3. The ASP-half of this slot's suspicion is interesting as he was claiming at the end of the second half of day one that attacking ASP was scummy because he's easy to attack.

That is not what I said; as a matter of fact, I had previously attacked ASP myself. ASP is objectively the easiest ISO to attack in the game, and my point there was that Davsto was scrambling to find a slot to make a case on, not that ASP's ISO was so bad it's town.[/quote]

The point I was trying to make was that you switched from ASP-slot is scummy to ASP-slot is town after I replaced in, and now suddenly it's scummy again, but fair enough I guess.

4. Similarly, he suddenly starts townreading this slot after I replace in, but now my play at that time is scummy.

The only time I have stated a townread on you was in the same post where I declared that I had a townread of some capacity on all players barring Davsto, MS, and RC, one of whom flipped town, and another claimed odd-night doctor. Of course I'm going to have dismantled a lot of my townreads after that.[/quote]

Ok, so what exactly changed in your overall reads then?

Given that the vast majority of your response surmounts to nothing more than misrepresentative deflecting, I'll ask again: is that all you have to say for yourself?

Attempting to brute force the wagon through. Scummy.

[Ankamius]

@gork, do you not believe the doctor claim?

i want Ank after MS if MS flips town, because that will solidify my read on Ricastle

...You do realize that if we continue to have one death a night, two mislynches will end the game, right?

[Ankamius]

Yeah, I forgot about the double lynch mechanic. Scratch 1384.

[Ankamius]

I already went into this. Just ignoring facts to make up shit to try to make a case isn't going to win you any favors.

I don't understand. Your only citation is you claiming to be able to read GIF perfectly because you hydra'd with them, yet this relation only appears to me as being one-way. How is your ability to read GIF relevant when that only applies if you're town, and I'm trying to peg you as the opposite? How is that not what one could call hard buddying?

What facts have I ignored and what have I made up?

I specifically stated when I realized GIF was in the game that he was a high-priority sort. I've hydra'd with him in the past and know how he thinks as town. Put the two together and you get me wanting to and being able to read him. This is all implied just by my posts when I was asked about it.

If you were town and wanted to know why I was voting for someone, you'd analyze what happened between my vote post and the next post before it. You'd eventually figure out that BBMolla's entrance both began and concluded between those two posts and that you had posted about it twice. If you were as clueless as to why I was suddenly voting for you, you would have attempted to figure it out instead of placing a vote down and calling it a day, especially after I specifically asked if you had something to say about your vote.

I voted you before you voted me. That's the whole point...?

No, it's not. I specifically wanted to see if you had anything to say after you voted me; the fact that you specifically didn't try to get me to fill in the blanks before just making up nonsense to put in there instead doesn't sit right with me at all.

Ok, so what exactly changed in your overall reads then?

Is that meaningful information for you?

If you can't show that your reads changed at that point, then your response to my point about your read on ASP's posting changing is bogus.

Attempting to brute force the wagon through. Scummy.

Feel free to challenge my accusation. Because until you do I'm going to assume I made a correct assertion.

Because my last few posts in response to you weren't exactly that, right?

[Ankamius]

Fine.

VOTE: Yimmy

[Ankamius]

Hi.

[Ankamius]

Well, everyone's completely ignoring the 1v1 I'm having and another slot in the game is just tunneling me for days, so it's difficult to bring myself to care enough to put the tryhard pants on.

[Ankamius]

Ankamius

Gorkington

Bins
Yimmy

Aristophanes

Luna Fox

Metal Sonic
RadiantCowbells

Ricastle

BBmolla

This is basically my reads. Bins and RadiantCowbells aren't being useful to the game at all. Metal Sonic is... himself. BBMolla's hop onto Ricastle doesn't make me feel better about him as much as I normally would for whatever reason, and Yimmy is perpetually confused.

[Ankamius]

His case on me.

[Ankamius]

I have reason to townread everyone else MINUS Ank (which is the most glaring, 100% no reason)

This is a red flag that you need to reassess. It's almost impossible for someone to be THIS obvious as scum; it's far more likely that you're tunneling... which you have been.

[Ankamius]

His case on me.

how specific.
and what if i told you ive seen ricastle deathtunnel and be arrogant about pushing scumreads as town before?
because thats what this reads like and unless you articulate yourself better im going to continue on doing my own thing.

are you just going to ignore me and continue to mope?
because im entirely down to compromise on someone who makes it difficult for me to read them.

I already went into all my issues with his case. Double ISO both of us and look for yourself; it'll be a lot more productive to go that route than for me to reiterate it again.

[Ankamius]

I'll get to the rest in a bit, but what are you even talking about Ari?

[Ankamius]

I'm... not particularly scumreading Bins?

[Ankamius]

Here, Gork:

Ank, you're a total faker. You act like you're independent yet you haven't made a single independent move in the whole game aside from a shit light accusation against Fro99er.

This is the entirety of the backing he has given to the accusation. He hasn't made any mention of this before now or since, from what I can tell.

Every step of the way you've sheeped the popular opinion and hard buddied GIF while doing it.

Ignoring facts. I have hinted pretty heavily when GIF himself pressured me on this point that I am confident in my ability to read him (and it's obvious just from my entrance into the game that I find him to be a high priority sort.

1218 was you scrambling to find something to defend yourself from, and when that didn't arise, you just OMGUSed, despite the fact that a player of your level should know better than to assume an unexplained vote is scummy - especially when your vote on Bins was effectively one itself! This all adds up to the prime definition of covert coasting.

This has multiple issues.

1. He's assuming that my reason for voting him was his own vote on me, despite him posting several times between my response to his vote and me actually voting him back.
2. He's assuming that my vote on Bins was blatantly OMGUS, even though I basically pointed a neon sign towards myself having other reasons that were answered when Bins posted since my vote on her. He didn't bother to try to get that info first.
3. I made an unexplained vote on Bins and unvoted while stating I had reasons for voting Bins that I didn't reveal shortly before he voted for me. See number one. Despite both of this, he assumed that I was voting him for having an unexplained vote and trying to use it to discredit my vote instead of... you guessed it, trying to figure out why I had voted for him back. He made up a pattern that fitted his own ends instead of following the hints that there was a pattern already in place.

AND you replaced into the ASP slot, or in other words, the worst content in the game for obvious and previously pointed out reasons.

If anyone has objections to this lynch, I'd love to hear them; but with how this slot has behaved as a whole, I doubt many, if any will be arising.

When scum have a bogus case that falls apart once it's seriously looked at, then the most likely way to make sure it never does get scrutinized is to try to brute force the wagon through. This quote describes that perfectly since he ends with a point that I can't effectively argue against regardless of alignment and immediately after sets up to discredit any attempt to either defend me or tear into his case.

[Ankamius]

I-...

Either way, not hammering until Gorkington comes back at the earliest.

[Ankamius]

Here, Gork:

Ank, you're a total faker. You act like you're independent yet you haven't made a single independent move in the whole game aside from a shit light accusation against Fro99er.

This is the entirety of the backing he has given to the accusation. He hasn't made any mention of this before now or since, from what I can tell.

The first point holds no weight considering I hadn't made any other game-relevant posts between my vote and that post. Also, the reason I haven't mentioned it since is because Ank immediately conceded the accusation and didn't address it once in the entire 1v1! Even now he's twisting it to his advantage without addressing what is a true fucking fact!

You keep stating that your points are facts and are indisputable, yet this one specifically needs to be backed up to have any weight behind it. I have no idea what you're even talking about in the first sentence, the last one is ironic as hell, and the reason I never addressed it before is because there's nothing to address. You're literally making a vague statement that has no merit without backing.

Second point, empty and worthless, we went over this repeatedly in the 1v1 and it pretty much surmounted in this point being revealed to be a load of bullshit. Feel free to check that out instead of being an idiot or scum, you three. Although it amazes me that this argument as it appears here could convince anyone anyway.

Let's look at the two things he stated in the earlier 1v1 about me and GIF:

1. I hard-buddied GIF while sheeping overall reads.
2. When I stated that I put GIF on a higher priority to sort than other players and got town from a single ISO, his response is literally that the point doesn't work because that would assume that I'm town.

This is literally him saying that a point that would indicate I'm town doesn't count because he thinks I'm scum

. Logic doesn't work like that.

Third point is a complete twisting of events and makes me think his second vote on me was purely to raise this 'point' later on. Because guess what...his second vote was not only laid down

while he was already voting me

, but it was laid down the very post after my case! I couldn't have factored it in because at the time it hadn't even fucking happened, and Ank knows it!

Ok. Let's go into your ISO and look at every single post that happened in between your vote on me and my vote on you.

Spoiler:

I think I'm going to VOTE: Ankamius

MS, who did you protect last night?

Because I think they could be scum.

If you have something to say, say it

If you have something to say, say it

Well evidently I don't, or I would have said it just then.

Are there any claims I missed? And did Veegee already claim Doc?

Are you even-night?

Come on...are you even-night? We could bag a scum here.

VOTE: Ricastle

Just for shits and giggles and to shut him up on the blatant bullshit about my second vote, here's where I posted it:

Ank, you're a total faker. You act like you're independent yet you haven't made a single independent move in the whole game aside from a shit light accusation against Fro99er. Every step of the way you've sheeped the popular opinion and hard buddied GIF while doing it. 1218 was you scrambling to find something to defend yourself from, and when that didn't arise, you just OMGUSed, despite the fact that a player of your level should know better than to assume an unexplained vote is scummy - especially when your vote on Bins was effectively one itself! This all adds up to the prime definition of covert coasting.

AND you replaced into the ASP slot, or in other words, the worst content in the game for obvious and previously pointed out reasons.

If anyone has objections to this lynch, I'd love to hear them; but with how this slot has behaved as a whole, I doubt many, if any will be arising.

VOTE: Ricastle

What is right smack in the middle?

BBMolla's replace-in and gambit.

You posted twice in the middle of that whole debacle, and your entire contribution to it was trying to fish out all the information about the claim that you could. The moment I saw that, I immediately got the sense that you had ulterior motives for trying to fish the claim since I can't see town wanting to fish out the details of a claim that comes out of basically nowhere, but I can definitely see scum doing this because they know the slot isn't part of their team.

Fourth point is a blatant misrep. I didn't say Ank OMGUSed, I said he made an unexplained vote on Bins, which is TRUE! Who cares if he pulled up a quote for why he may be voting her? Everyone has reasons to vote who they vote for at this stage. It's an elementary assumption, and it doesn't change that I stated a fact!

You're right, I misread the OMGUS point. It doesn't change the fact that you're assuming I voted for you because your vote was unexplained and attempted to use my vote on Bins to pin it as scummy. You willfully ignored the fact that you had posted during a

reaction test

between your vote and my vote in order to push this point through.

And the fifth point is a lengthy repetition intended purely to rile up town to vote for me. Much worse than anything I've ever done this game and still a load of bullshit.

lol.

Firstly on the last point, of course your previous slot is indefensible - that's not on me, it's a simple truth. You're twisting a point you can't hope to defend against because ASP's play was factually bad into me forcing the wagon through fallaciously! Secondly, I'm not discrediting anybody. A discredit would be "but I doubt the ones that arise, if any considering this slot's overall behaviour, will hold water". What I actually said would not impact any response to my case that arose in any way!

k.

And here's the newest explanation for my vote: All of the manipulative fuckery I just dismantled, and the fact that you are clearly disappointed somehow about your scumread coming to L-1 yet you're ready and willing to hammer! I guarantee you he will bring that up in some butchered capacity later on.

k.

[Ankamius]

We only have 1 day, but that may have been a tad hasty.
UNVOTE:

I-...

Either way, not hammering until Gorkington comes back at the earliest.

Do we not amuse you?

Actually, that facepalm was because I somehow thought I was still voting for Ricastle instead of voting for Yimmy, then having votes reset from the lynch.

[Ankamius]

among the many things i deem incredibly unconvincing:
dumb naked votes.

No opinion on anything else?

[Ankamius]

sigh

[Ankamius]

I'm this close to just AFKing from the thread entirely until everyone actually decides to do something. I'm getting the sense that people give just as little of a fuck about this 1v1 as the last one.

[Ankamius]

That's one thing that's scaring me, yes. I can't remember you ever sheeping me before.

[Ankamius]

Well, everyone's completely ignoring the 1v1 I'm having and another slot in the game is just tunneling me for days, so it's difficult to bring myself to care enough to put the tryhard pants on.

[Ankamius]

The ignoring part isn't as relevant this time, but what we have instead is a bunch of naked votes which really isn't better at all.

[Ankamius]

I'm more pissed off at the gamestate in general. I basically let myself get into my blind spot when it comes to reading the gamestate and it feels like the rest of the game is stalling out because of it.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Ricastle

meh

[Ankamius]

Town has already lost this game.

RC + Luna + Bins is my guess for the scumteam now for endgame.

[Ankamius]

Whoever is town needs to unvote.

[Ankamius]

A+ trolling. The only question left is whether RC or MS was the one that was dumb.

[Ankamius]

why are you still pretending

[Ankamius]

If by some coincidence you're town, you basically doomed us the moment day started.

[Ankamius]

I think you're forgetting how much effort was made, specifically by Ank and Gorkington, to deliberately antagonize me over my Luna scumread.

Well yeah, you're going to get nowhere fast when you try to brute force a lynch without specifically telling people why they should vote for who you're voting for, then get an attitude when people try to get that info out of you.

[Ankamius]

After how I was treated yesterday for trying to push Luna, I don't feel bad at all for being the reason we lost the game.

lol

[Ankamius]

that being said, granted how much Amianki knows i love scum perfect wins, he should've seen this coming if he thought i was scum

What I'm surprised is Amianki never jumping at me for not voting him at all to "sort him"

I was townreading you up until you sheeped me out of nowhere. That was the biggest red flag you did this game.

[Ankamius]

That's how I play, Akn. Very few of the tells I use are ones that I can just throw down in a post and explain to people and have them believe they're alignment indicative at all.

For example,

Hmm going through your ISO, that makes sense, ok

Unvote

was tantamount to a scumclaim in my eyes, but I'm not expecting anyone to see why I'd scumread that. Am I correct?

Pointing out posts and asking people to analyze them again is a lot better than nothing at all.

[Ankamius]

RC: That entire exchange is awkward. If you had pointed it out before, I would've entertained the idea a lot earlier than I actually did. If you had done it when I was trying to distance myself away from the 1v1, it would've changed the game entirely.

[Ankamius]

It's purely an irrational decision to not want to double lynch.

Actually I'll tell you why Luna is still alive.

Many people are townreading Luna and you haven't done jack to convince them otherwise.

Their problem, not mine.

You were literally discrediting everyone townreading her before we even had that argument.

[Ankamius]

That comparison only works if you were discredited for being right. You were discredited for not wanting to convince people that you were right.