Mini 1725 - Game Over

[supercool898]

VOTE: revalista

Why do you have an exploding planet as your avatar? That seems very scummy to me...

[supercool898]

RVS according to Mafiascum Wiki

At the beginning of a game of Mafia, each Townie has precious little information about the setup. As a result, the first set of votes are made with

either no reasoning or humorously flawed reasoning.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells for being wrong about my vote not being RVS.

[supercool898]

Your vote can only be non-RVS if you were also saying mine was.

Otherwise you would have no reason you have given for your vote

PEdit: Oh wait, this is RC I'm playing with... You don't use reasons with your votes...

[supercool898]

^ My reaction when I first played with you :3

[supercool898]

Technically

, your vote is still RVS since you didn't add a reason... :P

[supercool898]

Just because I don't state a reason doesn't mean I don't have one.

Or was my scumread on Accountant 1 day into the game just random as well?

I'm just giving you a hard time, that is sort of my humor style (it might not be the greatest humor though...).

Your vote can only be non-RVS if you were also saying mine was.

Is this true?

Assume everyone makes an RVS vote. If no-one can/should vote someone who made an RVS vote in a serious vain (because nothing can be read into them), then, what is the point of RVS?

In a normal case, it would be true. The way I looked at it is if he was stating his vote was non-RVS, then in order to make that true, the statement "non-RVS vote" would need to be his reason.

[supercool898]

Oops, almost forgot to respond to Slandaar's second part of his post.

I view RVS as sort of an ice breaker. It allows people to talk and make mistakes. When a person makes a mistake, then that is when RVS starts to end.

[supercool898]

... an attempt to try and invalidate RC's votes.

Eh, you might see what I mean later in the game. I wasn't trying to invalidate RC's votes, I just don't like his playstyle. I am glad for his second vote on me right now, since it has made RVS sort of end.

[supercool898]

I view RVS as sort of an ice breaker. It allows people to talk and make mistakes. When a person makes a mistake, then that is when RVS starts to end.

What kind of meaningful mistake can be made when everyone is simply making a joke vote?

They don't make mistakes from the votes themselves (unless they say they are voting using a system like random.org or something, drawing attention to them) but when conversations arise from the votes that is when mistakes can easily be made.

[supercool898]

RVS ended as soon as RC voted you...

...But how do conversations arise from the joke votes?

Well isn't how this game has turned out? I made an RVS vote that caused RC to vote me which caused a conversation. Hopefully I am explaining this well...

[supercool898]

EWBOP: *isn't this like how this game has turned out?...

[supercool898]

Wait, are you dayvig and killing me? I'm not sure if you are either accusing me of dayvig or are dayvig and killing me...

[supercool898]

Welp, back to waiting a week for a new game. I wasn't scum. So far I think RC and Slandaar are town. I guess Soap is conftown then. Btw when do I die? At the end of the day, or when Chaos comes back?

[supercool898]

Why would you gambit? I guess you can reaction test from it, but if you didn't call your bluff then you would be killed by your fellow townies.

[supercool898]

Fair enough. I think I am starting to realize I generally take a lot of heat in the beginning of the game to end RVS

[supercool898]

I am not getting good feelings about Firesong right now. Firesong, why are you suggesting it bad to place an RVS vote?

[supercool898]

UNVOTE: RadiantCowbells

I townread RC, so I don't see any point to this vote anymore.

[supercool898]

Nosferatu, could you please tell us

why

these are confusing to you? There is a lot you could be confused about.

[supercool898]

RVS ended as soon as RC voted you...

...But how do conversations arise from the joke votes?

Well isn't how this game has turned out? I made an RVS vote that caused RC to vote me which caused a conversation. Hopefully I am explaining this well...

This almost makes me reconsider my townread on Super. What's the purpose of the last bit?

People kept asking me about RVS so I started thinking I wasn't making sense.

[supercool898]

I have never been in a game with revalista before. Isn't revalista replacing out though?

[supercool898]

I have never been in a game with revalista before. Isn't revalista replacing out though?

So how did you know what their avatar looks like when you've never played with them and they haven't posted?

I saw his avatar in the sign up thread.

[supercool898]

But you signed up before him?

That doesn't mean I can't look back at it does it? After around the 5 day mark I wanted to see how many people signed up. I knew that I would be playing with Soap and RC (these and MM are the people I have experience with) before the game even started.

[supercool898]

*sigh* I never said I checked only once. I said I started checking after around the 5 day mark right? Well it took 7 days after I signed up before the game began, and I know I checked like 5 times (I checked at least once to look for if the list mod had seen the game was filled up) looking at the signup thread.

[supercool898]

Btw, if revalista never confirmed his role, wouldn't he not be in the scum topic either?

[supercool898]

Searching for replacements for KTthecreeper and revalista who both failed to pick up their role PMs.

what are you talking about revalista not being replaced?

as for implying that I only checked once in my post on the topic, I thought that in stating that I knew soap was in the game would let you know I checked more than once. There shouldn't be anything in that post that implies that I only looked once.

From what I can tell the only part that could imply that I only looked once is this sentence:

After around the 5 day mark I wanted to see how many people signed up.

Does this somehow signify that this was the only instance of looking? Just because this is the first instance of looking doesn't mean I wouldn't want to look again in the future.

[supercool898]

Oh, you're right. I never saw that post at all. Humm.

I don't really get how you didn't see the post, but somehow knew that KTthecreeper didn't pick up his role.

[supercool898]

I guess I could see that. It could look like just one person being replaced since there was only one line used in it.

[supercool898]

who is she referring to in post 60? What does "Soapbar now bear watching" mean? What point is she making by saying "You're the one who placed that vote"? Pretty much what she means in all of her posts in coherent english.

We moved out of RVS. Then Soapbar jumped back in with a naked vote on me. Therefore I do not trust Soapbar. I will be watching him more closely than other players on Day 1.

What do you think about Shadoxx? He also is trying to RVS.

[supercool898]

@Firesong Did you read the whole thread or even his vote? He is making a judgement off soap's avatar, something I did during RVS this game with another player.

[supercool898]

Oh come on you have to stay longer than that!

[supercool898]

Welp, I don't have a better place to put my vote.

VOTE: Firesong

Talk to me, please.

[supercool898]

I really don't have a good feeling about nos right now. It feels like the game isn't important enough for actual thought to him. I feel like he is scum, but I don't really see why I feel that from what I said in the last sentence (uninterested isn't only a scum action).

When I get back home, I think I'll ISO nos and give what I think about him then. I might just make a full blown read sheet while I'm at it!

[supercool898]

That is what I would like to answer for myself when I get home.

[supercool898]

@Soapbar

shoot forgot to do this

UNVOTE: Supercool898

[supercool898]

@firesong Could you respond to my post 140? In case it wasn't clear, why do you think it

wasn't

an RVS vote?

[supercool898]

Could you read the post in context? I was talking about shadoxx, not soap

[supercool898]

I am glad you stayed long enough to see my post. I had begun to think you already left

[supercool898]

In fact you were talking about shadoxx.

who is she referring to in post 60? What does "Soapbar now bear watching" mean? What point is she making by saying "You're the one who placed that vote"? Pretty much what she means in all of her posts in coherent english.

We moved out of RVS. Then Soapbar jumped back in with a naked vote on me. Therefore I do not trust Soapbar. I will be watching him more closely than other players on Day 1.

What do you think about Shadoxx? He also is trying to RVS.

Are you sure? Looks to me like he's jumping on a convenient wagon.

@Firesong Did you read the whole thread or even his vote? He is making a judgement off soap's avatar, something I did during RVS this game with another player.

Also, I will have shadoxx's attempted vote here as well in case you somehow miss it:

Men with hoodies can never be trusted...

VOTE: Soapbar

[supercool898]

Btw, is it really not possible for you to connect these dots on your own? These are posts all very close to one another in the game thread.

[supercool898]

Do I think Shadow is in RVS?

No. I think he just threw in a fluff post assuming that he could get away with it.

This is basically what an RVS vote is and what you were accusing Soap of doing. If Soap is scum for RVSing after the stage has passed, why is shadoxx not scum for doing it also?

PEdit: Yes, he is a lurker which is also a flag on him, but will not be replaced until at least tomorrow if he doesn't post again before then

[supercool898]

The thing is that shadoxx doesn't need to be here the entire game to know what has happened, just like how a replacement would know what has happened in a game. It is silly to hold him to a different standard than Soap since 1) the time of their first post doesn't matter whether they read the game or not, and 2) shadoxx posted this in page 6 while soap posted his second RVS at the end of page 2, when (I would say) RVS was only gone on me, RC, Slandaar (maybe) and soap.

[supercool898]

I need to eat dinner right now, so I won't be able to post to you (firesong) for about 15-30 minutes. Sorry

[supercool898]

I'm back if you are still there, fire. I will be working on my read sheet in the meantime.

[supercool898]

I am only "fixated" on him because I am asking you about him. That is the logical thing to do when talking about him with you, right? Anyway, bye

[supercool898]

Note: I put my reads both in order of town to scum, but also organize the individual sub groups of reads by town to scum.

Town Reads

Glork - Glork has had a good mix of analysis, questioning, pushing, and activity. My one problem with him is he draws some connections that I don't really understand too well (for example, I don't really see why he doesn't like smudger).

Town Leans

Slandaar - Slandaar has played pretty town so far. I like how he questions people in order to clarify certain points that might be confusing otherwise. It feels like a team playstyle which indicates town to me. I would like him to give more analysis about the players in the game.

MarioManiac4 - I get a pretty good town vibe from MM. I like his analysis on the game and conversations with soap, but I don't like how he tunnels soap so much. I would like to see more of his thoughts on other players.

RadiantCowbells - RC is a person who has to be read based on meta because of the meta he has set. He has been acting more towny than he was in my last game (it is finished, don't worry) when he was cop, so I think it is safe to assume that RC is town.

Null

Rory - Rory is looking good for what he has posted so far. He does pretty good questioning players, but he doesn't have a very broad scope of what he talks about in the game and since he has only 7 posts, he doesn't talk about many topics.

Smudger - Smudger hasn't posted too much, but that is understandable because of his time zone. He has kept up with what has happened in the game, so I don't think he would be lurking if he wasn't in the time zone he is in. That said, he hasn't posted anything alignment indicative and so I read him as null.

Annadog40 - Need moar posts.

Soapbar - I haven't really seen anything from soap that indicates either alignment, so soap remains null for me.

revalista - No posts...

Scum Leans

shadoxx8 - Although he has only posted once, I lean him as scum for trying to RVS at page 6 (RVS ended at the bottom of page 3

tops

) and faking inability to vote correctly (he has been in 6 previous games and

still

doesn't know how to vote even when the moderators are clear about how to do it?)

nosferatu - Nos is the perfect example of a lurker trying to look active. For example, 3/18 posts of his are only a single word (counting nvm as a single word) and on a more broad scale, 10/18 posts are either filler or basically say what people already have said/asked. 4/18 posts are actually somewhat good (being generous, as I am counting "Well, I have no reason not to vote Soapbar that I can see. VOTE: Soapbar" and "Why tho" as somewhat good) and 2/18 posts aren't even directly tied to the game (not counting single word posts). I have no idea why this could possibly be town play.

Scum Reads

Firesong - Firesong... Tsk tsk tsk... Oh where to begin. I believe most of my suspicion of her comes from her hypocrisy involving a strict standard for Soap and a lenient standard for shadoxx8 when the standards should be swapped between the players in question. Also, her calling my conversation with her about shadoxx a "fixation" leads me to believe that she and shadoxx are scum partners and she is trying to cover for him.

If I were to predict the scum team right now, I would predict Firesong/shadoxx8/nosferatu, but I don't feel as strongly about nos or shadoxx as I do about fire

[supercool898]

My short posts are completely normal for my meta btw. I'm not lurking or trying to be active either, I'm making short posts, and I came in late.

Lurking is the act of intentionally not posting during a game Day.

This doesn't describe my play in this game very much.

Two of those one word posts are retracting my erroneous statements, and my other one, 72 is immediately clarified in 74
My reasons for joining the Soapbar wagon have not been mentioned; the other votes come from the interaction between Mario and Soap, which I don't comment on at all. You say my posts are filler and add that to the reasons why you scum read me, but you town read RC who's ISO also contains a lot of filler that isn't relevant to the game whatsoever. Also, please find my posts that are mainly made up of content said by another player.

Counter Definition!

Active Lurking is the act of posting (thus differentiating it from ordinary Lurking), but the material posted is irrelevant or otherwise useless for scumhunting.

I am not scumleaning you because of all your one word posts, I was just using that fact to show how little of what you post is actually content. I found 4 out of your 18 posts that were somewhat good (meta or not) and even included your Appeal to Ignorance and "why tho". This lack of good content is what I'm worried about.

You also compare yourself to RC, but in reality the situations are different. Although RC has had filler posts, he has been pushing players in the game and even helped in ending RVS. You, on the other hand, have been sheeping with your vote and have even less content than RC. Honestly your response to my read sheet is like double the content you already had.

Your read on Firesong is weird. You thought shadoxx is scum --> Firesong seems to be defending shadoxx --> Firesong [scummier than] shadoxx?

Why is your shadoxx scum read weaker than your Firesong read if your Firesong read is dependent on shadoxx's alignment? Your read on Fire, from what I can see, falls apart if shadoxx is town.

Nope! I did not think or say that. My scum read on Firesong comes from her hypocrisy between Soap and shadoxx. I won't go into too much detail as I already have explained it in my reads.

As for my read on shadoxx, I don't have enough on him to scum read/lean him any lower on the list since he has only posted once. His inactivity isn't a good sign and his RVS post was WAY too late, but I can't go all out and say, like, HERE IS CONFSCUM OMG or something like that because there isn't enough proof.

[supercool898]

You said that Fire should have treated shadoxx harsher than Soap when she was doing the opposite. Why should she be harsher on shadoxx?

most of my suspicion of her comes from her hypocrisy involving a strict standard for Soap and a lenient standard for shadoxx8 when the standards should be swapped between the players in question.

^ what I'm referring to, for absolute clarity.

The situations with Soap and shadoxx are different because of the times of when the RVS votes were made. For Soap, RVS was acceptable since there were very few people who were posting, and the people who were hadn't made many posts. These were the number of posts made by players other than Soap (not counting RVS posts)

supercool898: 14
RC: 11
Slandaar: 2
Rory: 1

Right then he could only really vote one of the above players to have a non-RVS vote, but nobody here did anything particularly scummy so a vote on them would be silly. At that point, an RVS would not be scummy.

Here are the number of posts made by players other than shadoxx (again not counting RVS)

supercool898: 26
Soapbar: 26
Glork: 21
RC: 17
nosferatu: 7
Slandaar: 5
Rory: 4
MarioManiac4: 4
Firesong: 2
Smudger: 2

See the difference yet? shadoxx had so many more posts to work with than Soapbar had, and yet he still made an RVS vote. The only people at this point that he could vote that had no posts (or only RVS) were revalista and annadog40.

The most baffling part of this all is that Firesong insists that this proves Soap is scum and doesn't prove shadoxx. This hypocrisy and backwards logic is why I suspect Firesong so much and why I am going to keep a close eye on shadoxx.

[supercool898]

EWBOP: Some of the second post numbers could be slightly wrong since I was using ISOs to quickly see what the post counts were at post 129, but ISOs start at post 0, not post 1. Basically some people on the second list should have +1 added to their post count.

[supercool898]

I don't think we need to lynch nos yet, especially since we still have like ten days in this first game day. I want to use my vote right now to make shadoxx speak up some.

VOTE: shadoxx8

[supercool898]

Sorry I haven't posted anything in a little while. My internet went out yesterday.

Firesong - Firesong... Tsk tsk tsk... Oh where to begin.

that would lend me to think there is more to your case on Fire than the Soap Shadow RVS thing you have rolling? so please begin at the beginning..

I had a little bit more that made me suspicious of her. I thought it was strange how she couldn't gather context when I was asking her about shadoxx, such as with post 186 to post 191, but it could just be an honest mistake so I pulled it out of my scum read of her. Also, I don't like how her only reason for soap being scum is his page 2 RVS, which already is a reason I disagree with (I sort of explain my reasoning for this in post 241).

Basically, these are some lesser reasons to suspect her that I pulled out of the scum read to make it more concise.

[supercool898]

Also, welcome makara!

[supercool898]

Supercool, your zealotry towards lynching a slot that could turn out to be a town PR is disquieting. We will decide the Shadoxx slot's fate when he's replaced.

Tell me where I advocated a shadoxx lynch today. All I did today was explain some of my scum read on you to Smudger.

[supercool898]

Sorry I haven't posted anything in a little while. My internet went out yesterday.

Firesong - Firesong... Tsk tsk tsk... Oh where to begin.

that would lend me to think there is more to your case on Fire than the Soap Shadow RVS thing you have rolling? so please begin at the beginning..

I had a little bit more that made me suspicious of her. I thought it was strange how she couldn't gather context when I was asking her about shadoxx, such as with post 186 to post 191, but it could just be an honest mistake so I pulled it out of my scum read of her. Also, I don't like how her only reason for soap being scum is his page 2 RVS, which already is a reason I disagree with (I sort of explain my reasoning for this in post 241).

Basically, these are some lesser reasons to suspect her that I pulled out of the scum read to make it more concise.

so basically it's your only reason?

you have pulled out? sorry did I miss that? you no longer suspect Fire, or am I missreading that?

That is not at all what I said, but I think I do see where you might be lead to think that.

Clarification: Basically in my last response to you, I explained that in my description of my Fire scum read I was going to have like three points but I realized one of them wasn't alignment indicative and the other (tl;dr: bad voting) wasn't as important as my first point. Because of this, I pulled the last two points out of my description of Fire and left the first one to represent my stance.

But no, I am not retracting my scum read on her, especially with her last accusation of me being too zealous when I was not pushing a lynch.

[supercool898]

Anna, can you at least give us some reads? You have been a worse active lurker than nos even.

[supercool898]

Sorry, yeah he has been getting better at having content. I meant from at the point when I was scumreading him for it. Right now I should scumread annadog for active lurking instead of him is what I meant.

[supercool898]

Moral support isn't useless.

I've played a game with Nos this behavior isn't uncharacteristic of a town nos but their town game could slip into scummyness!!! Fire can give off a sketchy vibe and I got anti-playstyle towards MM4

Sorry, yeah he has been getting better at having content. I meant from at the point when I was scumreading him for it. Right now I should scumread annadog for active lurking instead of him is what I meant.

I remember when I scum read lurkers as a vig. I ended up shooting all the doctors in the game. Beware the doctors.

What am I supposed to take away from this? Are you claiming doc or something?

[supercool898]

What am I supposed to take away from this? Are you claiming doc or something?

nope. Why did you think I was?

Oh, I thought you were insinuating doc since you gave an example where the lurkers were doctors specifically (and multiple at that).

[supercool898]

Supercool, your zealotry towards lynching a slot that could turn out to be a town PR is disquieting. We will decide the Shadoxx slot's fate when he's replaced.

What was the point of this post even??

The point is that I don't get why Supercool is trying so hard to lynch a slot that's only made 1 post. Unless he's scum, Supercool has no reason to "suspect" a slot that siteflaked.

Supercool, your zealotry towards lynching a slot that could turn out to be a town PR is disquieting. We will decide the Shadoxx slot's fate when he's replaced.

So "I'm scumreading this slot" == zealotry?

Zealotry = he will not fucking let it go.

I ISOed myself and used ctrl+f to find the last time I actually pushed on shadoxx. The last time I pushed on shadoxx was when I tried to get him to talk by voting him in post 246 on last friday at 2:07 pm (my time) well before Firesong's nightly posting session. What I don't get is why she decided to accuse me of zealotry two days after I last did any sort of pushing on shadoxx. Seems kind of incorrect in calling me zealous right now, since if I was zealous then it wouldn't have been 3 days (by now) since I pushed at all on shadoxx/maxous.

[supercool898]

I don't think scum particularly like RVS though.

Depends on the players.

Let me expand on that.

Just as good, experienced townies can gain information from RVS, good, experienced scum can casually study the townies and learn how to subtly manipulate them.

Do you think Soapbar is experienced enough to manipulate townies by going back to the RVS phase?
Also, what would you accept as the most town motivated thing Soap could do with his vote when he brought it back to RVS?

Btw, couldn't scum manipulate townies or learn to in any part of the game instead of just RVS?

[supercool898]

Do you think Soapbar is experienced enough to manipulate townies by going back to the RVS phase?
Also, what would you accept as the most town motivated thing Soap could do with his vote when he brought it back to RVS?

Btw, couldn't scum manipulate townies or learn to in any part of the game instead of just RVS?

I don't know Soapbar, so I can't answer for his experience. He could be an alt for all I know. I have to consider all possibilities, and act accordingly.

You seem sure that Soap is town. Why?

Soap and I had our first newbie game on the site together and thus I would consider us about equal skill level. He couldn't be an alt because he participated in the newbie game with me in a newbie slot, which is not allowed for alts. I do not think he is a player that could benefit from staying in RVS as scum.

If you were in soaps position for his page 2 vote, where would you have voted (e.g. most town motivated vote)?

I explained the Shaddox defense - it was an empty slot that could turn out to be a major PR, and I was lynched in games for

suggesting

that empty slots be lynched.

and yet you're pushing supercool as scum for doing the same thing?

Only scum know Shadoxx's alignment. No one knows his role. Lynching an empty slot is like random lynching, you have no clue who you're taking out. It's lazy and antitown.

If I can get lynched for merely suggesting it, it's because it's something Scum do all the time. So yes, Supercool is scum.

Was the game where you got lynched for this in Micro 454?

[supercool898]

Lol Sorry about your alt Mario

[supercool898]

@Maxous I assume that was from another game, correct? Was he basically insta-replaced after that post also like in this game?

[supercool898]

I think my vote is still on maxous, who I don't really see anything scummy from so far. I'm going to move my vote back to Firesong.

VOTE: Firesong

[supercool898]

@Super: I don't think you ever responded to 175

I did in my reads list.

[supercool898]

Anna, could you actually, like, play the game instead of prod dodging?

[supercool898]

There's probably a few I'm forgetting but yeah. Scum has close to zero reason to keep her alive. The risks are too high for them.

It isn't like scum are going to NK her either way though, as I feel like your first scenario is one of the more possible ones (probably 1 or 6). I kind of agree with Glork on policy lynching her. That might be a good D2 lynch.

[supercool898]

After a quick re-read, I think nos would be the best person for a D1 lynch. I really like the points Glork made against nos in 417 and really didn't like how nos responded to Glork in 420 (basically nos said he couldn't really defend against Glork's points, but went on to defend himself for the heck of it). That really pings my scumdar.

VOTE: Nosferatu

I believe nos is at L-1 again, so don't hammer without expressing desire to do so beforehand.

[supercool898]

I agree with Soap on this, I want to hear from Rory before people hammer him

[supercool898]

Roryscum -> Smudgerscum makes a ton of sense to me.

vote: smudger

Surely

Why would smudger be scum?

[supercool898]

Why would smudger be scum?

Glork flipped a town weak motion detector.
what "weak" means is if you target scum you die, so they're generally used as investigative roles.
Generally experienced players like Glork will leave a subtle hint just before the end of the day phase as to who they are going to target in case they die that night.
That's what glork did with Roryscum ===> Smudgerscum.
It doesn't really matter that Rory flipped town it was an indication from Glork that he was going to target Smudger
ergo it's a guilty on Smudger

That actually makes a lot of sense! I think I am happy voting smudger now.

VOTE: smudger

I do want to hear his response to all this though.

[supercool898]

From the Wiki:

However, it is not easy to determine who the Weak role targeted that Night, especially as scum favor killing claimed Weak roles specifically to obscure their last "result".

I was on a scumteam that did that once, for the specific purpose of framing a Townie. (Large Theme Star Trek DS9)

From Glork's ISO Post 471:

If Nos happens to flip town I know who I would reconsider. That said, I'm not going to get into that heading into night. Don't want to help scum select their kill/actions.

I think Scum killed Glork.

I think they're trying to frame Smudger.

Maxous, Soapbar, supercool898, makara - suspect.

See post 467. Nosferatu's questions are in green, Makara's answers are in blue.

VOTE: Makara

Glork didn't claim weak, he flipped weak.

If you think Glork was killed by scum, why did RC die?

[supercool898]

If you think Glork was killed by scum, why did RC die?

Vig is what I'm thinking.

Why could Glork not have been killed by said vig?

In my mind when I made my vote, I had a few possibilities I was thinking of in my mind:


Glork inspected Smudger, who was scum, and thus died. RC was killed by scum.

Glork inspected Smudger, who was town, and would have lived if a vig didn't kill him. RC was killed by scum.

Glork inspected Smudger, who was town, and would have lived if scum didn't night kill him. RC was killed by a vig.

Glork inspected a player other than Smudger, who was scum, and thus died. RC was killed by scum.

Glork inspected a player other than Smudger, who was town, and would have lived if a vig didn't kill him. RC was killed by scum.

Glork inspected a player other than Smudger, who was town, and would have lived if scum didn't night kill him. RC was killed by a vig.


I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few other possibilities, but I haven't thought of them. I figure that since Glork is experienced, he probably did crumb his inspection which I believe is Smudger. I don't think he would change his inspection after crumbing, so that can eliminate the last 3 possibilities I have written above. Right now, I am between possibilities 1 and 2, but I find it unlikely that there would be a second vig and they would have killed the weak motion detector (who I think was generally town read). I therefore put my vote on smudger because it is the possibility that seems most likely to me.

Also I have a question: Does night kill orders have any meaning (e.g. does the RC kill being first mean it was a scum kill, or does that not matter)?

[supercool898]

Your forgetting that fact that it could be an SK in that possibilities list.

Oh yeah, that is a possible role. I could very well be wrong then.

[supercool898]

Yeah, I agree with a no lynch today. It is too much of a risk right now.

VOTE: No Lynch

[supercool898]

just wondering guys, how do you guys know it's mylo

In order for scum to win, there have to be the same number of scum players alive as town players (since they can then influence majority vote). In mislynch or lose, there are two more town players than scum players. Since one person always dies per night, if a second person is killed with the lynch, then the scum team wins.

There is also lynch or lose, where there is only one more town player than the number of scum players.

[supercool898]

just wondering guys, how do you guys know it's mylo

In order for scum to win, there have to be the same number of scum players alive as town players (since they can then influence majority vote). In mislynch or lose, there are two more town players than scum players. Since one person always dies per night, if a second person is killed with the lynch, then the scum team wins.

There is also lynch or lose, where there is only one more town player than the number of scum players.

[supercool898]

Oh crap I double posted on accident. Sorry!

[supercool898]

I know what it is, I was wondering how we knew the number of scum.

Oh, I just looked at other completed games to see how many scum players they had. Here are a few examples from some completed minis: Mini 1705, Mini 1706, and Mini 1707

Since these above game have this sort of composition, I am pretty sure this game follows that pattern.

[supercool898]

I am thinking now that a makara lynch would be the best thing to do today. Between the vig/bodyguard combination, and the fact that makara's role modifier is literally tacked on without thought, I can't really see an outcome of him being town.

UNVOTE:

[supercool898]

That's it. I'm going to vote makara. What a bodyguard does is select a target, and if they are targeted for night kill, then the bodyguard takes the blow and dies instead. With his setup, he would be able to survive one blow given to either himself or his targeted player, but makara doesn't even realize he can survive one diverted night kill if he protects someone. Makara obviously must have pulled this setup from another completed game thread, or mafia role discussion since it is a viable role that he doesn't know how to operate. Also, makara doesn't seem to be sure whether his bodyguard is one shot, or his bulletproof is, as seen here:

I am 1-shot Bulletproof Town Bodyguard. I haven't used it at all.

Makara is basically a doctor on his first successful use of bodyguard, so there isn't any reason to save bodyguard uses (if he didn't have 1-shot bulletproof, it would be reasonable to not use it N1, but makara does have bulletproof). He plays as if he only has one bodyguard use, which he wouldn't play as if he knew his role well. There is no way in my mind that this could be a town slot.

VOTE: makara

[supercool898]

That's not how this works. I am bulletproof, and I am also a bodyguard. Even if the BP is not used I still die if I protect someone. At least that's how I read the role PM. I will PM the mod for confirmation though.

I guess it could be possible I'm incorrect. Doesn't the bodyguard take the nightkill for the targeted player if the target is going to be nightkilled? It seems like it would have great synergy with the 1-shot bulletproof modifier that to me it seems silly if you were to die from the bodyguard use.

[supercool898]

Makara is at L-2, so you wouldn't hammer if you did vote for him.

[supercool898]

I'm strongly doubting that Mario is scum w/e the case.

I have received confirmation from the mod that my bulletproof modifier will go into efect if I protect someone.

this is continuing to confuse me
so you can block one kill..but you can only use "bodyguard" once.

yes

Oh wait, so the bodyguard is one shot too? That is interesting

[supercool898]

Whoa, no need for hostility. I thought only the bulletproof was one shot. I didn't think it would be used to modify both the bulletproof and the bodyguard.

[supercool898]

Urgh.
I am not comfortable with the Aristo wagon because apparently makara just happened to be a PR and I don't get why Aristo wouldn't claim a n2 track as scum.

He claimed that he tried to track me but was roleblocked.

No, he said he got no result when he tried to track you which could either mean you didn't do anything, or you did and he was roleblocked

[supercool898]

I think both makara and aristo are both town.

If scum has a 1-shot strongman and used it on RC n1, it would have gone through makara's protection and wouldn't have notified him. They also would have no killed last night to protect themself from a possible track from aristo. Her claim is too odd to be a fakeclaim. If she really wanted to fake claim, she would've chosen something like a vanilla cop, something she can easily get away with. A protecting PR targeting a dead players as a fake claim doesn't seem logical. It's way too suspicious.

I think a massclaim is appropriate at this time.

I think either makara or aristo has to be scum. If makara is town, then he wouldn't have targeted RC (otherwise he would have lived) and aristo wouldn't vote him making aristo scum. If aristo is town, then makara with his current claim would be lying, making makara scum.

Honestly, I have started watching makara and aristo's gameplay instead of judging by claim solely at this point. I think I might still be on aristo's side right now, since he immediately voted makara in his first post upon replacing in, but I'm still less sure than I felt before.

[supercool898]

Wow, that was a long post! Ultimately right now, I am in agreement with aristo being scum. Before now, one of my big factors in supporting the makara/hinduragi wagon was because of aristo's vote on makara in his first post. I didn't realize that scum had daychat at the time though, so with that in consideration and the rest of the points brought up by Hinduragi I believe now that aristo is scum. I will not be voting right now though, because that would put aristo in L-1 range where he could hammer himself if he is scum so we can't discuss things today. I want to be able to hear more from hinduragi because he has very good insight and could help us D5

[supercool898]

Why do we need a massclaim? Today's lynch will be between hinduragi and Aristophanes (of which aristo is very likely the scum) so what will a massclaim do for us other than give scum people to lynch? I feel if we ever need to massclaim, tomorrow would be better since that would eliminate a full night where scum is more informed about PRs.

[supercool898]

Super - Need you to post more in general too.

Okay! I have some free time right now, so I think I will try to provide some content. If you have any questions for me to answer, I am ready to answer them right now.

UNVOTE:

Dang it.

I got very little sleep musing over this.

I finally decided that Hinduragi should be lynched, and, depending on his flip, Aristophanes should be lynched tomorrow.

But I'm not trusting my judgement.

Glork was a Weak Motion Detector. Do we need a Tracker too?

There was speculation early in the game that we have an SK. I'm still looking at the possibility that Hinduragi/Aristophanes could be SK/Mafia.




The massclaim was just a suggestion, I'm not rolefishing, but I can see where Scum would love seeing claims.

Firesong, we need to find scum tonight because if we lynch town, then we lose. I do not believe there is an SK since the only extra night kill was N1 when Glork the weak MD died. Why do you think hinduragi is scum, and since you do, why did you unvote him?

Because Aristophanes claims to have tracked me on N2 but got a No Result, suggesting a roleblocker. If there is a roleblocker, and he blocked Aristophanes N2, that would be helpful info, wouldn't it?

Let's say a tracker targeted a VT. The return the tracker would get would read "no result". It just means nothing appeared. Also if there is an RB, it likely is scum aligned so a massclaim wouldn't reveal it.

[supercool898]

According to the Normal rules a "No Result" indicates roleblocking. If the target didn't go anywhere, the Tracker should get "Target did not visit anyone."

I did not go anywhere. I'm a VT.

I just read the wiki and you are right. My bad.

Anyway, if you want to lynch hinduragi, why did you unvote off of him?

[supercool898]

Oh crap! Sorry for not posting! I didn't realize it had been so long! I was rereading the thread and noticed that hinduragi said in the beginning of his uber post that he thinks there is a three man scum team. I was under the impression that this was always the case, as I saw these scenarios in other finished mini games. Do the number of scum players deviate much in various games?

[supercool898]

Could we look at aristo's interactions with other players and get helpful views on who is scum that way? I have heard that is a way to find scum sometimes

[supercool898]

Could we look at aristo's interactions with other players and get helpful views on who is scum that way? I have heard that is a way to find scum sometimes

I've been doing that since I replaced in. The only problem is -- he's ONLY focused on makara since he replaced in. Barely mentioned anyone else at all. That's why I was asking him to comment on others earlier but he wouldn't budge.

Could we look at how other people interact with him though? I think you have been doing some of that already, but idk if other people have been doing it yet (I think I do need to do this - I'll try to do this some in the morning)

[supercool898]

I say lynch them both.

But since we have to do it one at a time, Hinduragi should be the first choice.

VOTE: Hinduragi

What do you not get about MyLo?

[supercool898]

Nos, today's lynch is between hinduragi and aristophanes. We are just discussing about the scum team for tomorrow when hindu will probably be night killed. We are not lynching someone other than hinduragi or aristophanes and aristo is the scum member.

[supercool898]

I think that Firesong would be a better lynch candidate tomorrow. Right now, there is one scum between aristo and hinduragi, and two scum out of the 6 remaining people. On a percentage standpoint, the ratio of scum to town between aristo and hinduragi is 1/2 while everybody else has a ratio of 1/3. I think based on this alone, it would be much easier to lynch scum between aristo and hinduragi than anyone else. I also think it is pretty clear that hinduragi is town and aristo is scum, so if we lynch aristo we should get another day.

[supercool898]

Yeah, I don't think there is much more to discuss. I'm kind of surprised that hinduragi thinks nos is town though. I have been reading him as scum. Hindu, what makes you think he is town over scum?

[supercool898]

Oh, I thought ari was at L-1 :3

VOTE: Aristophanes

[supercool898]

so I think i'm gonna vote supercool but I wanna re-check his reactions to aristo vs makara first
IIRC..they weren't good

Could you say why you think I am scum? I assume you are probably thinking this way because of what hindu said about me.

[supercool898]

This is MyLo. You can't afford to mislynch me.

FTFY

[supercool898]

I agree with everyone saying that we have time to work things out and find the scum, but we are wasting it if we are silent. Please people, speak up. I am finding myself being inactive and I am going to change that right now. Town can snag a victory here so let's not waste our time.

Supercool- Posting D4 was awkward, filler and needless; do not remember taking a stance

Was I not voting/siding against aristo D4? I wasn't voting him for a while since I thought he was at L-1 even though he wasn't, but I thought I made my stance clear.


I'm going to ISO Firesong and see if she looks as scummy as I remember her. I think I will also look back at what Hindu said about her and try to see if that is the case.

[supercool898]

At this point, I think Firesong is probably noob town. The reason I think this is due to how she OMGUSed basically everyone who voted her after they vote and her indecisiveness during D3/4. I think if she were scum, she would probably care a bit less about her vote and not flip flop as much.

[supercool898]

That's not even what information over analysis means. Information over analysis is speculating about the setup more than scumhunting, which is in no way what I just posted, but instead is a good example of your posts, with an overwhelming portion of your ISO consisting of setup spec.

You are thinking of information instead of analysis, not information over analysis. I cant seem to find what Ioa actually means on the wiki other than "Ioa is similar to IIoa", so I could be wrong.

[supercool898]

xD Mario weren't you already voting firesong?

[supercool898]

lol I think that might not work...

[supercool898]

i think he's [Super] been overly passive and quiet during the last couple of day periods.
He joined Aristo to push Makara and when Hindu replaced in, super kinda just quietly slid on over to Hindu's side when it looked like Aristo was in trouble which seems like pretty typical scum partner behaviour

Alright, these points would be fair if they were true. When I first sided with aristo, it was because of makara's lack of knowledge on his role that made me believe he was fake claiming, but I then became a little unsure about my read and then justified it by how aristo voted makara on his first post (as seen in post 709).

When Hindu replaced in and argued that scum had daychat on D-2, I realized that the plan could have been made then allowing him to make a fake crumb. Since my belief of aristo's claim was anchored by that one point, I no longer had my proof that aristo was tracker and with the combination of hindu's points and townie feel, I decided to support him over aristo. My points are backed up in post 736.

In my post 736, I also mention that I didn't want to bring him to L-1 since then he could hammer himself and keep us from talking (I had that happen in my first game, so I was wary this time) but then fire got on anyway and I wasn't able to cast my vote without hammering aristo. I also didn't realize until after you voted aristo that his wasn't at L-1 anymore (as seen in post 896) and voted him afterward. So, as we can see I did not quietly slide onto aristo's wagon but instead was supporting Hindu.

In response to you saying that I was passive and quiet, I think these complaints mainly (if not only) apply to today. I have been quiet for most of today since not many people have been talking today, and I was more quiet yesterday since I was agreeing with what most people were saying and didn't want to clog up the thread repeating what everybody else had already said.

As for being passive, I have only been passive today. I attribute this to no longer scumreading firesong. I am still trying to figure out who is scum.

[supercool898]

I'm here, just haven't really been clicking on the thread since I see other people aren't talking

[supercool898]

Gun to head, you have to pick, who are the scum?
If firesong is scum then one of nos or Mario is definitely scum

Although I don't suspect firesong right now, I am putting my money on nos being scum.

[supercool898]

If I were scum why would I kill RC N1 when he was one of the few players who didn't want me lynched D1?

If you are scum, then you are part of a 3 scum team. At the beginning of N1, Aristo replaced into the game. Aristo has had past experience with RC and I think he must have saw RC as a threat and killed him because of that.

[supercool898]

any reason you're not voting him?

bruh, my read was a gut read. I don't feel comfortable enough voting him just yet.

[supercool898]

I'm sure in the two whole games you've finished, that you are in expert in identifying bussing scum. I also don't bus as scum.

You also quoted a bunch of stuff that you didn't comment on. Why include it at all?

In the sig of a wise man: "Everybody lies." You might or might not bus as scum. I don't know that. (I know Aristo will if he has to.)

Uhh, simple, look at any game I've ever played and you will see I don't bus as scum.

Is your only defense meta? Meta can't be solely relied on, but is more like supporting evidence.

[supercool898]

VOTE: Firesong

[supercool898]

Also teammate, don't reveal yourself unless Fire is successfully lynched incase she is lynchproof

[supercool898]

gg guys. You played pretty well IMO

[supercool898]

Oh yeah, funny thing soap. I actually legitimately believed your D1 dayvig claim :3 I just figured there wasn't really a point not to say "I'm town"

[supercool898]

I hadn't heard of the gambit before. Just read the mafia chat after the game

[supercool898]

Yeah gg! I think at the end Hindu was on to me (I don't totally understand why :3) but you guys must have forgot

[supercool898]

so was it MM4 + Soap?

I ain't even mad

No, I was town

meant soap + mm4, you two have such similar names

MM4 + Soap?

meant soap + mm4

Lolwut? xD Autocorrect?

[supercool898]

No idea...

I'm waiting for chaos omega so it can kinda officially end.

[supercool898]

Yeah, I'm guessing it has something to do with thanksgiving... Kinda wish we could prod him though xD

[supercool898]

Looks like it's time for derp phase. Did you guys have a good thanksgiving?

[supercool898]

Mine was pretty good! It was nice having no school then so I could just relax and stuff.

[supercool898]

Gg Hindu! You have an amazing playstyle! Like when you replaced in, I kinda started to wish I was town :3 I think I started budding you because of that. I just didn't really get why the post you had quoted of me saying basically "bruh the lynch is between ari and Hindu today" was so scummy because I honestly believe that would be the better option.

Like seriously, if the lynch was excluding you and ari, it would just be like playing D5 early, while between you and ari the scum concentration was higher.

I guess did I say it in a scummy way?


Also fire: I found it kind of funny how you stopped scum reading me when I was making a reason to stay off your wagon :3 I guess in the future don't base your reads on if people are scum reading you.

[supercool898]

Yeah dead PT was pretty weird... It feels like a lot of people didn't even make a single post in it. Also, was fro99er co-modding the game or had an alt in the game or something? How was he in the dead PT?

[supercool898]

That must have been rather anticlimactic :3