Mini 1733: Jurassic Monkey - game over

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: Garmr

[pistachi0n]

1) Is anyone in a non-American time zone, or for other reasons posts in odd hours?
2) Is anyone here brand new or otherwise unfamiliar with how the game is played here at mafiascum.net?
3) What kind of level of activity should we expect from you?

1) No.
2) No.
3. Inactivity interspersed with frenetic bursts of activity.

[pistachi0n]

Ice is town and will not be the lynch today.

Are you townreading him for is questions? Why do you sound so certain? Why haven't you answered other people who asked you this?

[pistachi0n]

Is your vote on Garmr legit or remnants of RVS?

Remnants of RVS.

[pistachi0n]

I'm not sure I like the precedence of the unvote.

What do you mean by this?

Syndesis:

Seems to be tunnelling Diego a bit. I'd have to throw a light town-reading, nothing really suspicious that I saw.

Townslip or nah?

Or they literally didn't read the rules.

[pistachi0n]

Scumread on Mario, he's playing lazily.

VOTE: MarioManiac

[pistachi0n]

I cannot read Davsto and will be looking elsewhere.

Really?

Link a completed game where I have read you right
Like I thought you were scum in Temple Guards mafia when spectating
Not worth the time

You got me right in my first newbie, and I think you had me as town during the short period you were alive during Flower Viewing Festival.

No. I just sheeped BBT.
And honestly my reads in Flower Festival were just gut and I'm really surprised I didn't townread any scum.
I had no scumreads and was null on more than half of the players.

See! I told you so. This is what I meant in my last post. (I'm being a hypocrite though, I'm aware.)

[pistachi0n]

Pistachion: what are your reads of Davsto and Archmage?

Davsto's first real vote on Iceninja was based off of something Ice said in RVS that was maybe overly aggressive but not scummy. The vote on Archmage in 279 was a good reason, though. And being slow on Day 1 matches his meta, I don't fault people for that unless it continues on in the later game.

Archmage says in his first post that he's terrible at the game. That creates plausible deniability in case he does something scummy later, I don't like that. Then he says he's not a fan of voting in early game even while clearly expressing suspicion of Ice. Talks a bit about being cautious about Day 1 lynches. More plausible deniability. Then posts a reads list, that was pretty good. I agree with Davsto that it's scummy that he talked a lot about his suspicion but didn't vote until a wagon had already formed. If anything, that doesn't match what he said about being cautious with day 1 wagons.

VOTE: Archmage

[pistachi0n]

I really don't know if your town or not but why? Why do you do this every game just skim through the content not really read it and place down superficial reads?

Why are those examples of superficial reads? In regards to your whole post and other people's comments: someone asked me what my reads are on two players, and I gave them. All Alone has fewer posts than I do, how is he any better than I am?

Pistachion just moved into my scumreads. Archmage's "readslist" was the worst part of his play, and him admitting that it was a forced post is what looks like apologetic scum to me. I find it hard to believe Town sees that and thinks it looks good.

Although it was early, it looked to me like he was trying to keep track of the players and put effort into his reads.

[pistachi0n]

If you suspected Archmage for creating early game plausible deniability, why wait until just now to attack him for it? It reads like you're looking for a reason to get on the most viable counterwagon to yourself.

Because real life, etc, etc, also, when I go through and look at isos I pick on on things I missed.

[pistachi0n]

So basically, you chose Firebringer, and not Syn, for your voting bloc,

Because you wanted to choose someone who thought you were town?

town blocks only work when you read each other as town or are you just fucking thick.

Syndesis was confirmed by God as town

[pistachi0n]

Just went over Pistachon's iso and there's indeed hardly anything there. I agree with All Alone on this one

I am again going to point out the irony of this statement, seeing as All Alone is the one player with fewer posts than me.

[pistachi0n]

@Fire, are you going to tell my why you're scumreading Mario?
[/vote]

I don't like the tone of his posts, or most of his presence in this game.
He doesn't seem to be scumhunting.

What's an example of the post you don't like the tone of?

[pistachi0n]

It's absurd for anyone to think they could make a townbloc on Day 1 without any power roles to confirm town roles.

[pistachi0n]

I'm still firm on my pistacion read. It irks me that she is pointing at all alone doing less, when in reality, she has not done much herself. It seems like she is trying to push suspicion on all alone while not actually trying to scum hunt.

I'm not trying to push suspicion on All Alone, I'm trying to push suspicion on everyone who was like "oh yeah all alone is so smart, pistachi0n isn't posting much"

[pistachi0n]

So yeah I proved you wrong and was waiting to see how you responded before deciding whether to vote you or not.

VOTE: dave

What were you looking for in the response? Whether or not he voted for you?

[pistachi0n]

What mistake does he have to admit?

[pistachi0n]

...And you're voting for him because he misunderstood something you said?

[pistachi0n]

I'm trying to get you to clarify. This is a common thing people do when they play mafia.

It was scummy of you to wait until after Davsto voted you to vote for him. You say you proved him wrong, you didn't prove anything. Your townblock stuff is also pretty scummy, it looks to me like you were trying to appear trustworthy and buddy with town players.

VOTE: Garmr

[pistachi0n]

If I was trying to buddy you I wouldn't be implying your a idiot.

You're not implying I'm an idiot, you've said it very clearly.

I know you think I'm an idiot.

so you really don't need to say it any more, I get it, thanks. I don't think you're trying to buddy me. I think you were trying to buddy Fire, for one.

[pistachi0n]

All Alone, I thought it was a hypocritical argument against me. That's all.

[pistachi0n]

The whole thing with Garmr and his townbloc with Firebringer is getting way too much attention. Nobody jumped when they were kidding around about becoming masons but when Garmr calls their townreading each other a town bloc everybody falls over it.

I can reluctantly see that. My problem with "town bloc" is the idea that there's a group of people who agree to absolutely not lynch each other, when they have no empirical proof everyone else in their town bloc is town. If it's just day 1 to filter out people they don't want to play with, I guess that's fine, but if it continues it's really not.

[pistachi0n]

I no longer think Garmr is scum after Davsto's flip.

I agree with Alchemist's assessment of All Alone.

VOTE: All Alone

[pistachi0n]

I no longer think Garmr is scum after Davsto's flip.

I agree with Alchemist's assessment of All Alone.

VOTE: All Alone

But what about his assessment of Mario??

I also agree that Mario could likely be scum. I'll also point out--I've played games with Mario before but I haven't seen him get angry like he is in this game.

All Alone has done nothing but tunnel me.

[pistachi0n]

All Alone's assessment of Scorp is weak. Most of Scorp's Dav mentions imply that Dav is a weak scumread but he thought there were scummier people. He did VOTE: vote for Davsto's lynch though.

[pistachi0n]

@Pistachion: What is your read on Scorpious? What does him hammering scum tell you?

He got a late start, then he started questioning people when he posted. Said he wanted his questions answered before he'd be comfortable voting. Voted Mario after some argument. More stuff, etc, etc, I think the fact that he hammered makes him seem less scummy. Nothing that screams town, but I don't consider Scorp to be actively scummy.

[pistachi0n]

@Pistachion: What is your read on Scorpious? What does him hammering scum tell you?

He got a late start, then he started questioning people when he posted. Said he wanted his questions answered before he'd be comfortable voting. Voted Mario after some argument. More stuff, etc, etc, I think the fact that he hammered makes him seem less scummy. Nothing that screams town, but I don't consider Scorp to be actively scummy.

What do you mean with 'actively scummy'? Right now I feel like you don't really want to commit to a read on Scorpious, like you want to keep your options open.

Mod: can Scorpious be prodded please?

Or is it too soon for that yet?

What I mean is Scorpious is null and I haven't seen anything alignment indicative. Interactions aren't revealing much yet.

[pistachi0n]

All Alone, you haven't said much for me to go off of. You are being incredibly hypocritical. I was considering changing my vote but your last post after others have continuously asked you to expand on reads of other players has solidified it.

[pistachi0n]

@Pistachi0n; Would you be willing to vote Mario today and go for All Alone tomorrow?

Yes, Mario is scummy.

VOTE: Mario

[pistachi0n]

Scorpious's responses to the inquiries about his quick hammer D1 feel very weak. I'm happy with where my vote is currently.

They're very weak because your suspicions were very weak.

[pistachi0n]

I seriously doubt a townie would hammer and not know why. Townies have to think about the alignments of the players they're voting, so when they've made the decision to hammer they've almost certainly got a good reason for it. This reads like Scorpious already knew Davsto was scum, and thus didn't have to think about it.

From my experience, scum bussing come up with pretty good reasons when they know the buddy is doomed. Whereas I can see a townie hammering out of exasperation.

[pistachi0n]

Scorpious didn't look exasperated to me.

507 looked like he had given up on explaining.

[pistachi0n]

Scorpious not having a reason, or not telling us his reason anyway, for hammering Day 1 threw me off because I'd expect scum to make up a reason for their hammer to make themselves look more town.

Yes, I was trying to express that thought but you are more eloquent.

[pistachi0n]

I'm at least ninety percent certain that .

*...Scorpius is scum.

and you are 90% wrong..,

you defend yourself from this fluff, but not from my argument that your lack of rationale for hammering indicates that you didn't have to think about the outcome of the hammer because you already knew what it would be?

Your argument makes no sense Why would scum be careless enough to not give a reason?

[pistachi0n]

Questions, yay! Directed towards

everyone

.

-What distribution of scum do you see across Mario and Scorpious's wagons?
-Do you think scum bussed/attacked/scumread one another yesterDay?
-Is there a strong reason for the Garmr kill? (I'm about to go back and look again, but I'd like to see what others think.)

1. I don't think any particular distribution would have given scum a strategic advantage.

2. Yes. I've never played a game without bussing. I'm thinking All Alone/Archmage.

3. Nobody was scum-reading Garmr.

[pistachi0n]

I agree that commuter is a fishy and unlikely claim.

My current strongest townreads are Alchemist and (obviously) Syndesis.

Wanderer's last post looks like she knows Scorp is going to flip scum and is vehemently distancing.

[pistachi0n]

Out of all the players, Alchemist is the one who strikes me the most (in his voting and unvoting pattern) willing to consider other arguments and change his mind while not sheeping under pressure.

[pistachi0n]

Why does that make him scummy?

Looking through his ISO again, I see he did avoid talking about Davsto.

But his votes and unvotes seem genuine. That's what there is. What are some things he's said that strike you as scum?

[pistachi0n]

I don't think Alchemist was going with the flow. He was questioning and encouraging conversation.

[pistachi0n]

1 Scorpious would have likely self-hammered by now to deprive us of more discussion. Although nthis is wifom; he could just as well be doing this ate on purpose hoping we'll move on from him.

The second sentence. That is what is going on here.

[pistachi0n]

I wasn't voting Scorpious so we'd have more discussion before the hammer.

Other people have been pressured, possibly by scum. I doubt they could get enough townies on the wagon, and Scorpious did something blatant.

[pistachi0n]

Or you're scum and you can't wait for the chance to use this to manipulate your meta.

[pistachi0n]

Since Scorpious is no longer at L-1:

VOTE: Scorpious

[pistachi0n]

It's not to make you act differently. It's to officially mark my vote.

[pistachi0n]

So does anyone have a role to counteract a commuter...?

[pistachi0n]

@

Scorpious

: So, in a nutshell, confbias.

ok then

So does anyone have a role to counteract a commuter...?

1. Really??
2. What counteracts a commuter?

I was trying to find if there was a chance Scorp could be town. I don't know what counteracts a commuter.

[pistachi0n]

I'm suspicious of Alchemist's claim as a universal backup. It sounds far-fetched, but maybe he's thinking we don't lynch someone with a far-fetched claim after we screwed up on Scorpious. Or he really is town, because yeah, I don't want to make the mistake we made yesterday.

Back when I thought Scorp was scum, I thought Wanderer was scum with him because of her overly dramatic vote, and her later unvote to take him off L-1. But now I think it's either Wanderer or Scorpious.

[pistachi0n]

Since Syndesis can vouch for Wanderer, I will VOTE: Alchemist for now.

[pistachi0n]

Who are we looking at, Syndesis?

[pistachi0n]

Wait, are you thinking Wanderer is scum? I thought you confirmed them as town.

[pistachi0n]

I was hoping it would because having 1 more would have cleared half the game and make the PoE a lot easier. It makes no sense for scum to have this role even with the IC exemption.

Why would it make no sense for scum to have the role?

[pistachi0n]

...why are you asking on this forum? there are threads for discussing theory

[pistachi0n]

Hey pistacion, what is your current stance on who could be alchemist's scum partner?

Probably wanderer.

In808, puts wanderer on townbloc list, but very bottom.

In 821, nudges wanderer.

Later he votes Wanderer, but she wasn't really in danger of getting lynched.

[pistachi0n]

I'm more suspicious of 3dicerolling right now. I don't like his case against Wanderer, there was plenty of discussion in anticipation of the lynch. Wnaderer made a lot more sense as scum if either of the previous two lynches had been scum.

[pistachi0n]

I'm more suspicious of 3dicerolling right now. I don't like his case against Wanderer, there was plenty of discussion in anticipation of the lynch. Wnaderer made a lot more sense as scum if either of the previous two lynches had been scum.

How could you possibly see that hammer as town?

I had just gotten in that big response and soon I was going to respond to archmage and wanderer, until wanderer decided to hammer because of what I interpret as frustrated and desperate scum. There was still plenty of discussion left in that day.

Also, why do those other people being scum imply wanderer scum?

I never said I saw the hammer as town.

Also--when I thought Scorp was scum, Wanderer voted for Scorp really adamantly and withdrew the vote. So at the time I thought Wanderer knew Scorp would flip but wanted to be on the right side, and then backed out. Then Scorp flipped town. There were also some avoidant interactions between Wanderer and Alchemist going on that I thought were fishy, I mentioned them yesterday. But then Alch flipped town as well.

[pistachi0n]

Yeah, that makes sense. I'd still rather lynch 3dice today though.

[pistachi0n]

pistach was the obvious kill for scum. pistach did not die. Something is afoot.

All Alone and I were both speculated about being confirmed town by cop result, why is that afoot?

[pistachi0n]

Keep in mind, I didn't put a vote down on you yesterday. I exercised LYLO caution.

[pistachi0n]

Because I had based earlier reads on Wanderer off of associatives that didn't go through while you flew under my radar.

[pistachi0n]

Because I had based earlier reads on Wanderer off of associatives that didn't go through while you flew under my radar.

what kind of associatives? Also, how have I been flying under your radar when I've been scum reading you most of the game?

1056

[pistachi0n]

3dice--The hammer wasn't sufficient to generate a vote from me yet. And you'd been flying under my radar because there were others being actively scummy.

[pistachi0n]

You didn't like the claim, and you said wanderer was basically confirmed scum with that hammer. What else was there?

[pistachi0n]

I'm considering Archmage, he was pretty quick to point a finger at me after the day was over and it's less likely you would have been acting that way if Wanderer had been your scum buddy.

[pistachi0n]

*after the night was over

[pistachi0n]

Nobody's questioned Archmage yet so he can safely prodge. Why are you town?

[pistachi0n]

Archmage, I was talking to you.

[pistachi0n]

I'm convinced about your argument that it wouldn't make sense for you to push on Davsto early on when there wasn't a lot of suspicion. I'm wondering if 3dice's frustration with Wanderer was frustration with being paired with a scum buddy he doesn't like. I'm going to vote 3dicerolling.

[pistachi0n]

Archmage made one post, I looked over the backlogs myself, and yep, I'm mostly convinced.

[pistachi0n]

1. Why have you been reserved when giving out reads this game?

Because that's how I play. Especially day 1.

2. Why do you think archmage would open this game very open about who his reads if he was scum

To look town.

3. Why did your read on alchemist change so quickly?

Some grains of suspicion grew when he claimed universal backup and then it was POE.

[pistachi0n]

Archmage made one post, I looked over the backlogs myself, and yep, I'm mostly convinced.

Could you elaborate more on this?

I forgot about how much Archmage was pushing on Davsto when there was no reason to do so. He was scumreading Davsto way before it was cool, if they were both scum it would have put unnecessary attention on his buddy.