Mini Normal 1775 END!

[Sayaka Maizono]

Ynaut
VOTE: knightmare

[Sayaka Maizono]

Ynaut
VOTE: knightmare

Anything else you wanna add?

OK.

Your reaction towards Sakura was really bad. I feel you aren't considering the motivations behind her posts and instead are just posturing here. As a few examples: what is the purpose in calling a post on page like 2 "reaching"? Who do you think is more likely to "reach" on page 2, scum who wants to blend in and avoid tipping anyone off; or town who starts with the game with no information and thus wants to push around to get reactions? Both of which are things you said in this thread btw so I know you're aware of this. I think you saw her pushing you and got worried that it would gain traction, and overreacted.

Moreover for someone who acts like they caught scum straight out of RVS phase you haven't so much as voted her and instead keep your vote on the RVS wagon you joined? If you were going for reactions here you should have voted her. I think what you did is more like scum testing the waters to see if their push would be well received before wanting to commit to it, than town who is believing of what they're saying.

Your entire angle contradicts itself tbh, and it's for this reason I'm voting you.

"Refuse to believe" ? That's a rather hard line to take so early in the game when your reasons for me being scum aren't that good in the first place. Not sure if you're scum or just extremely subjective in your scum hunting, but either way it's not a good look.

This is a kind of thing I think scum are more likely to say than town because all it is a bullshit neutral sounding comment that's designed to look good and posture. If you were town and you were actually unsure out of her posts what is the point in throwing that "it's not a good look on the end" if not to throw shade at her? And if you were town and thought she was more likely to be scum, you would have said as much instead of acting unsure about it (which again points to being afraid to commit to it).

2) I did want to generate discussion/reactions, and it's worked. You bit and now others can weigh in on our interactions.

"You bit and now others can weigh in on our interactions"? Plzzzz.

[Sayaka Maizono]

You are correct. I actually do believe defensiveness leans more scum. Especially if scum thinks they are

caught and shouldn't be.

I still disagree. I think townies are just as likely to attack bad cases against them. I've caught a lot go scum for this very thing when they push BS reasons for scum reads.

And you think scum has any reason to go out of their way to push a mislynch on page 2??

[Sayaka Maizono]

VOTE: Sayaka Maizono

Y

[Sayaka Maizono]

You are correct. I actually do believe defensiveness leans more scum. Especially if scum thinks they are caught and shouldn't be.

Can you clarify what this is about? I agree on defensiveness being a scum tell but if this was the case, your vote on him should be a legitimate vote, not an RV. Am I wrong?

[Sayaka Maizono]

Bcoz ynot.

Anyway, I think knight is town, you are town, and that Sakura is town. This was indeed useful.

I probably agree on Sakura. Y knight?

[Sayaka Maizono]

The other S girl needs to post more.

I'll clear this up now... I only have free time maybe 1-2 times during the day, if this isn't enough then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Sayaka Maizono]

Enough of knightmare to get an initial town lean on him. Sayaka though could use some pressure to get them talking.

VOTE: Sayaka

Can we talk about this!

In your post 71 you give chilled town points for voting me in his 47. Which would seem to imply you have some reason for thinking I am scum or otherwise agreed with his vote on me. But here you say your reason is "pressure". Can you clarify exactly what your reason for voting me is?

[Sayaka Maizono]

So, reads. I was town reading Sakura since the point where she made 39, which IMO is town paranoia. I would not expect a scum to just second guess their own wagon for no reason. I still think she is town. As of right now I think the cases on her I have seen have been overtly nitpicky and weak. I will explain further about this if anyone asks me to do so.

I will retract my previous scum read on knightmare. I also think he is town.

I have not minded Garmr's posts so far. I think he is town and this gives me an OK base to work from for now.

I do not really like this wagon on Lowell. I think Expedience raises a good point in his 139, and I think that it looks more like confident town. Unfortunately I do not really like the way Expedience hedges around it, rather than committing to a firm stance. 124 about Sakura was also a bit of a reach in my opinion. Expedience, why do you think Sakura would have any reason to "turn the tables" when she was not being scum read at that point in the game? Her wagon did not come until later IIRC and the only one who was suspicious of her was knightmare himself.

I would also like A50 to explain why he specifically chose me to "sort out" via wagoning, as he could have done that to anyone so I'm curious why me in particular. I need some time to sit before deciding where I want to move my vote.

[Sayaka Maizono]

@Sayana I disagree with you about Lowell. I can accept that people think his vote for me was NAI. I do think 84 and the one from this morning are though. Him saying I am just OMGUSing is crap because there are others who voted me that I haven't attacked. His progression is bad and his focus is narrow thus far. I don't see this as townie play.

I agree he should generate content that isn't related to you. I think he is on the wrong track with you, but, I don't necessarily see it as a scum trait rather than a town one. Sometimes a townie will just focus on one player at a time (regardless of if there reasons are good or not) because it's how they play.

I agree about the OMGUS accusation being bad but again I don't see it as a scum trait, it's just bad.

[Sayaka Maizono]

Again, look at post 84 again I think it's pretty obvious he is not being objective.

Again I think he is on the wrong track here but I don't think it's a scum trait. The point about "trying to look calm and collected", I think is reasonable even though I don't anymore think it holds water, I remember feeling similarly about your posts when I first saw them. The last sentence is a bunch of rhetoric but town can say things like that as easily as scum can (i.e. to employ pressure).

1- Main Original Reason: You jumped on knightmare as their 4th voter with a naked vote. At first I assumed it was a belated RVS, but when he asked you gave a hell of a narrative of his "bad reaction". I don't agree with your reasoning to have voted him in the first place, but still it could've been a bad read. HOWEVER, when voting him FOR A REASON you should've introduced your case on the spot. Not doing so makes it look more like "Let me try to get in the mix, and if something goes wrong I could back track and claim it was RVS".

You do realize that my reasons for voting knightmare were always my reasons for voting him? I usually agree that yes, it is better to lay out your reasoning. However, in the early stages, it can be sometimes useful to hold your cards close to the chest, for reactions. For example, some random person might have made a bad jump on the wagon after my vote, when if I altered the flow of the game by bringing up reasons to discuss they wouldn't have done it. That is just one example but there could be others.

What is your logic behind assuming I would have laid out all my reasoning immediately?

2- Secondary Original Reason: Your counter argument to his defense sucked. You accused him of "not considering the motivations behind Sakura's posts and instead are just posturing here.". However, you yourself refused to consider his "I did want to generate discussion/reactions" as his motive.

I pretty obviously did and if you had read my post you would know that my reasoning for scum reading him had nothing to do with his initial wagon jump which Sakura criticized him for. My issue with him was entirely based on his reaction to Sakura's push.

3- NEW Additional Reason: In #166 you state "I will retract my previous scum read on knightmare. I also think he is town." at one point, but you conclude your post with "I need some time to sit before deciding where I want to move my vote.". I don't see why you would want to keep parking your vote on someone you already read as town. If you can't decide on whom you want to vote for there's always the unvote option for a start. Keeping your vote on a town read is saying something and doing the opposite. It's even worse than stating someone is scummy without voting them because they're "unsure about it".

Again, I pretty severely have to question your logic here. Think about it again, and keep in mind knightmare is no longer in any danger of being lynched. Functionally, what is the difference between leaving my vote on him and removing it?

[Sayaka Maizono]

Tbh, reading Lowell's 84 again, I think the way he openly straight up admitted his push was in majority sheeping someone else is a town tell. I wouldn't really expect scum who are going for the "fake aggression" approach to do that. They would be all over it claiming that they had original reasons for knight being scum, not "meh someone else came up with this but it's dead on".

I don't really think he has such a strong scum read as people are claiming he is, I think people are taking issue with his methodology for pushing reads.

[Sayaka Maizono]

I'll be V/LA until Monday

I am not caught up since my last post and I see Madonna is at L-1? If for whatever reason you all decide to end day before I come back I will catch up overnight.

NOTED

[Sayaka Maizono]

I'm (mostly) caught up, I made it to around page 18 or so

As of now, I have town reads on MhSmith, Sakura, Almost50, knightmare's slot, Expedience, and maybe Garmr, in roughly that order

Scum is in Lowell, texcat, Boon, and chilled

I had to boot Lowell and chilled out of my town reads because I'm waaay running out of room, but preferably I would prefer to lynch someone who is not him first. More explanation incoming when I read the remaining pages.

[Sayaka Maizono]

(EBWOP: Him = Lowell)

[Sayaka Maizono]

There's a really disgusting mentality going on in this game where people are expected to just "go with the flow of the game" and are criticized when they don't do so. I can list off a bunch of examples of this. Basically everyone re Madonna (in terms of the mentality of "she'll be condemned if Lowell claims a PR" without being open to reevaluation elsewhere, criticizing people for questioning the wagon), Expedience re me (knight being town means Lowell absolutely has to be scum for pushing him? what??), and so forth. I usually attribute to this to scum, but practically everyone in this game is doing it except for like two or three people, so it can't be scum driven.

Sakura's post stating as such, and her subsequent town read on Almost50, is a large part of where my town read on her comes from, btw.

Starting from this game day, I would like if people could kiiinda not just bum rush everything and criticize people for having thoughts opposite to theirs. And I def do not want another quick day. What you all are doing is typical group think and is not in any way beneficial to the game whatsoever. Please try to keep a more open mind about things, I plan on doing so for Lowell now that I've realized my previous view of the game with him as town might not add up, I would love if everyone else could do the same.

Also, do not ever, ever ever give someone a time limit like 12 hours again. Some people (like me, and what would up happening with her) can't get on every 12 hours...

[Sayaka Maizono]

VOTE: texcat
I'd like to recheck some things before consolidating my reads, but I feel pretty sure about this vote. I should be done in a few hours.

[Sayaka Maizono]

Mostly because her jump on to Madonna was outright horrible. I don't have anything as strong for Boon (plus I question if Boon can even be scum with texcat) and chilled/Lowell are mostly POE to be honest.

[Sayaka Maizono]

I probably won't be able to finish catching up until tomorrow actually

[Sayaka Maizono]

God damn it, sorry. Uni got really busy all of a sudden.

I might be around this weekend