Mini 1785: Game Over!

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: Kush

That feels really fake.

This ^

vote thekushmountains

[I Am Innocent]

I am v/la on weekends.

Hi Jake from State Farm. Excited to be town with you this time.

You still haven't explained why you said jake was town in this first post. So why?

I am v/la on weekends.

Hi Jake from State Farm. Excited to be town with you this time.

haha yeah... voted for whatshisname without actualyl reading anythign he wrote. But jarjardrinks points against him looked pretty good.

But whathisname defense looked pretty good as well. In fact it made jarjar look kind of bad for the misrepresentation.
So I'll UNVOTE: whathisname.

Real talk: there's been a lot more activity so far than I was prepared for. So I kinda just did some dumb **** to be invovled. I'm going need some time before I can read everything closely and have good opinions.

So u suspect jar jar but won't throw a vote that way?

Can we please lynch this?

[I Am Innocent]

and the fact that i have pretty obviously made an effort to find scum and sort players entirely nullifies that point

congrats

And your efforts have led to...?

[I Am Innocent]

Kush wagon is strange on analysis. He has 3 posts, none of which are a huge slip and people are just starting the wagon on him in his abscence.

I bet when he rocks up to defend himself the wagonners would have called beatlejuice.

I am v/la on weekends.

Hi Jake from State Farm. Excited to be town with you this time.

Calls jake town in the first post of the game?!?! Masons aside, which would probably be conveyed during pregame anyway, kush should not know this unless he's scum and jake isn't a partner. If that isn't a huge slip I don't know what is.

Add to the fact he is lurking this out rather than confronting this, easily hopped on a wagon on acronym that was gaining steam, only to unvote 'whatshisname'

Whole play has been shady from the get go.

So why are you trying to diffuse it?

[I Am Innocent]

Real talk: there's been a lot more activity so far than I was prepared for. So I kinda just did some dumb **** to be invovled. I'm going need some time before I can read everything closely and have good opinions.

Oh and for the record kush has been trying to defend himself/do damage control.

Consider me unimpressed.

[I Am Innocent]

leaning on acryon scum and not a huge lapsa fan, i believe that garmr is probably town but just struggling a little, and that the kush wagon is largely mislead

3/4 of those could be seen by looking at my iso

so good job asking a useless question in an attempt to look useful

im gonna look more closely at you though as the game unfolds

In Disney world with my family right now so screw you. Clouds opened up tonight and just poured on us, so yeah I'm pretty grumpy and don't care for ur mudslinging about my "attempt to look useful." Ur defense of kush is noted, and most those other reads I'm not impressed with either. So when kush flips scum guess who I'm coming after next. U want to go 1 vs 1 with me, I'll eat u alive dude...

[I Am Innocent]

I agree on principle that Kush is scum but I want to do Lapsa more.

Can we make that happen? Speak now if you're townreading him or leggo.

Yeah lapsa ISO is pretty unimpressive. Why no vote yet lapsa?

I'd still say kush is so obv scum I'd prefer him first.

[I Am Innocent]

You aren't by chance running any of the Disney races this coming weekend are you?

No but I did hear something about half marathons. Is that what ur talking about?

[I Am Innocent]

Fine whatevs.

VOTE: dank 420

Who the heck is leggos (from ur other post) and who is dank 420? Am I in the right game lol

[I Am Innocent]

But also there was another omgusy aspect to my question to Jake. It seems suspiscious that he suspects me, given how differently I acted last game when I was scum.

We know that you were aware pregame that jake was in this game with you because in post 1 of the game u told him how excited you were to be playing with him.

So hypothetical question, if you had drawn another scum role and jake was not on ur scum team, would you have acted the same way as u did ur last game together? Or would you go out of ur way to mix up ur play style to throw him off ur scent.

All hypothetical of course...

[I Am Innocent]

The point is kush wants town points for playing differently than his last scum game while I'm merely pointing out that is exactly what I'd expect scum kush to do.

Do you agree or disagree with this? Who do think is scum, and why no vote? Ur predecessor replaced out in unusual circumstances so ur coming in with a scum lean in my point of view. So offer me something other than trying to critique my scum hunting abilities, which I can guarantee are far superior to urs.

[I Am Innocent]

I also like how Calvary tries to hint in his "b)" above like that would be a bad thing for town: lynching the weak link in the scum team.

News flash, a scum lynch day 1 is ALWAYS optimal to a town lynch.

[I Am Innocent]

How is this a misrep??? He didn't hint at it...he flat out said that pursuing a lapsa lynch is not the most productive avenue to follow!!!

He then proceeds to give one of the two reasons being he could be scum.

In regards to the Lapsa debate, I don't think it's the most productive avenue to follow at the moment.

I don't say this because Lapsa is a town-read as such. Given how many people agree that his posts are scummy, we're at risk of circle-jerking around one player.

I think he's either a) low-hanging fruit for a Day 1 lynch that allows scum to vote-park, inflate the importance of his posts and hold little accountability for if he flips town or b) the 'weak link' in the scum team who is being bussed for town-cred. (as scum like to look 'useful' and would be inclined to jump on scum!Lapsa as they would read his behaviour as scummier than a town would)

I have so many scum reads it is not even funny anymore.

[I Am Innocent]

Had a long post but my smart phone ate it up. Don't feel like retyping it, instead just going to

v/la until Wednesday

When I'm back from my Disney trip

[I Am Innocent]

@Mod

Can we get an Autti prod?

Also, I am Innocent can you weigh in on recent developments?

Back from Disney.

I need a more thorough catchup, one will come shortly!

[I Am Innocent]

@Mod

Can we get an Autti prod?

Also, I am Innocent can you weigh in on recent developments?

Okay what do you want to know?

People I don't think are good lynches? Ok, jar jar, RC, you/MC, jake

Person I want most lynched? Still kush

People who are scummy as all get out but I'm afraid they're masons so I'm hesitant to vote there D1? FA and garmr

Person my gut is telling me is town that I prob wouldn't lose sleep over if they were lynched? Lapsa

Person I forgot about? Acronym

Person I most think is scum if I'm wrong about kush? Meeks

Person who wouldn't surprise me being scum with or without kush? Calvary

Person I would think is scummy if 2 scummy people weren't voting him, and if he wasn't voting kush? Autti

[I Am Innocent]

That exchange with mc made me less suspicious of him sadly.

Read this guys ISO and tell me you don't see post like this over and over again.

He
Has
Attacked
Nobody
!
!
!

[I Am Innocent]

WHO IS SCUM KUSH?!?!?!?

[I Am Innocent]

I'm going to recant my MC scumread and omgus scumread IAMINNOCENT

Then vote me! Push others to vote me! Do something! Show me u care more about catching scum than upsetting others!!!

Ur play does not line up with a town agenda at all.

Still happy with my vote.

[I Am Innocent]

I'm going to recant my MC scumread and omgus scumread IAMINNOCENT

And why would u recant one scum read just cause u have another?

[I Am Innocent]

More kush votes please.

[I Am Innocent]

RC randomly chooses who to scumread and then pushes it as hard as he can.

This is actually not true. RC is actually a pretty good scum hunter. I happen to think he is wrong about u, but overall he is a strong asset when town. Since D1 is more of a crap shoot, I refuse to vote him D1 without some pretty condemning reason.

For the record based on the one game we played together before, I would Lu mp you in that group as well JJD. Tho I have a pretty strong town read of u as well.

[I Am Innocent]

I have never seen anything noteworthy from you.

Only played like 5 or 6 games but I'll look through em and get you my resume if you want.

Spoilier Alert: I fuggen DOMINATED them.

Yeah the game I was scum and replaced out, the scum team shot u N1 over the claimed seer. You were very good with ur reads that game from my memory.

[I Am Innocent]

I feel like we're getting off topic with a measuring contest or something..."mines bigger than urs"

[I Am Innocent]

@Mod

Can we get an Autti prod?

Also, I am Innocent can you weigh in on recent developments?

Okay what do you want to know?

People I don't think are good lynches? Ok, jar jar, RC, you/MC, jake

Person I want most lynched? Still kush

People who are scummy as all get out but I'm afraid they're masons so I'm hesitant to vote there D1? FA and garmr

Person my gut is telling me is town that I prob wouldn't lose sleep over if they were lynched? Lapsa

Person I forgot about? Acronym

Person I most think is scum if I'm wrong about kush? Meeks

Person who wouldn't surprise me being scum with or without kush? Calvary

Person I would think is scummy if 2 scummy people weren't voting him, and if he wasn't voting kush? Autti

Yeah nice try kush

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah the game I was scum and replaced out, the scum team shot u N1 over the claimed seer. You were very good with ur reads that game from my memory.

heh, this post makes me think IAI is scum and my reads this game are ****.

Nope town here. Keep the paranoia in check my friend

[I Am Innocent]

I would prefer if people didn't read me as town for meta, or try to meta read me. I am not going to be meta read by any of you except for Garmr. So the attempts at it are just going to be annoying. I am going to avoid meta reading any of you, except Garmr too, as much as possible.

Now, can we get more votes on JarJar?

Why avoid it? You've played with both town IAI and scum IAI, why wouldn't u use that meta?

[I Am Innocent]

Fire Assassin, just because I know someone is wrong about something that means I should think they are scum?

Your attack looks really opportunistic and weak in these last few posts.

No, you are right, you can think someone is town but think they are wrong, or in the case supposedly know they are wrong about a read. The fact of the matter was, you called it a "Reeks of townieness" post. You don't go further into it, and say what about the post you say is townie. You don't address the points he made on you, or even acknowledge them. Which says to me either:

A) You didn't really read his post. Anti town
B) You read them, but didn't see any problems with his logic or reasoning. Meaning you are scum or bad player.

Now this is more like it...vote kush.

[I Am Innocent]

So guys.

Let's start by dissolving the wagons on obvious town and then vote people who are actually scum.

VOTE: Cavalry

My lone vote on kush isn't doing much, willing to join this wagon.

unvote kush
Vote calvary

[I Am Innocent]

L-2

Calvary, come out come out wherever u are!

[I Am Innocent]

I think this Calvary wagon is bad. I think Garmr's jump on is bad. I think I am Innocent's vote on Calvary is bad too. I don't understand why lapsa is putting a wagon at L-1 if they are replacing out. I'm worried about Garmr, fire, and I am innocent right now.

Why was my vote bad? Kush's wagon was down to just my vote. Expedience whose slot I'm townreading started a wagon on Calvary. Calvary as you can see in my post below is someone I'm scum reading...so I voted Calvary.

Again what's the problem?

@Mod

Can we get an Autti prod?

Also, I am Innocent can you weigh in on recent developments?

Okay what do you want to know?

People I don't think are good lynches? Ok, jar jar, RC, you/MC, jake

Person I want most lynched? Still kush

People who are scummy as all get out but I'm afraid they're masons so I'm hesitant to vote there D1? FA and garmr

Person my gut is telling me is town that I prob wouldn't lose sleep over if they were lynched? Lapsa

Person I forgot about? Acronym

Person I most think is scum if I'm wrong about kush? Meeks

Person who wouldn't surprise me being scum with or without kush? Calvary

Person I would think is scummy if 2 scummy people weren't voting him, and if he wasn't voting kush? Autti

[I Am Innocent]

Would do kush again actualy.

I agree but I don't think we'll get the numbers for a lynch there. Wagon gets going/big enough, I'll switch back. But with another top 3 scum read at L-2, I'm content to stay for now.

[I Am Innocent]

I don't think Kush is scum

Why?

[I Am Innocent]

Those 3 players have a total of 4 votes right now, none with more than 2...so what are u yammering about?

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah that's bad.

[I Am Innocent]

I'm of the opinion that Postie/ Innocent/ JJD are a likely scum team, in order of most-to-least scummy, and everyone else is irrelevant.

Irrelevant huh? No town reads huh? What happened to FA who you voted earlier ? Irrelevant too now?

[I Am Innocent]

@Fire, post 644 - I'm not talking about what I find townie very much this game because I don't want to give the scum too much information about what I think town should act like. They might alter their behaviour to slip under my radar. You make a good point, however, as I am taking this mantra to the extreme without realising it and thus haven't explained my reads properly, so I'll get around to that in a future post.

A tl;dr version would be [

Kush, Firebringer, Meeseeks, maybe Murdercat, maybe Jake, maybe

Garmr

,

maybe

Innocent

,

maybe

Lapsa, Autti, JarJar

] and RC/ acryon are null/ undecided.

Although Murdercat is there mostly because I can't see anything overtly scummy with what he says, I need to reread Innocent's posts because I'm starting to think that my scum-read is because of site differences, and I keep flip-flopping on Lapsa. Take post 635 for example. The fact that he voted me after Garmr made his case on me feels like he was trying to set up an association between the two of us in case he flips. (aka, that he wanted it to look like he was chainsawing) And then JarJar defends me later on. I can't shake off the feeling that it's deliberate and I don't like it.

I am willing to switch votes to JarJar but I would like to take him up on his offer to be questioned first.

@Jake, post 649 - I checked the VC on #450 (I think) and Lapsa had 4 votes, so no idea where you got 2 votes from.

What changed ur reads from here?

[I Am Innocent]

I think Postie is scum. But we have nothing to lose leaving her alive, and everything to gain.
In the even that she really is a gunsmith, that is a very powerful role. It will eat the roleblock if nothing else.

Why are u so sure there's a roleblock? Scum slip?

[I Am Innocent]

Why are u so worried about defending urself? Why are u not pushing others instead?

[I Am Innocent]

U give a top 3

Postie who had 3 votes
Me with 2 votes
JJD who is pushing Postie despite the claim and someone who has garnered a ton of attention D1

You still haven't explained ur read changes despite not keeping up with the thread.

U lurked thru pressure

U coincidentally reappear right after the claim being at L-3/the largest wagon.

Yeah ur innocent as all get out...

[I Am Innocent]

I'm of the opinion that Postie/ Innocent/ JJD are a likely scum team, in order of most-to-least scummy, and everyone else is irrelevant.

Irrelevant huh? No town reads huh? What happened to FA who you voted earlier ? Irrelevant too now?

If I list three scum reads, in a setup where there is (from what I've seen) three mafia, then it's bloody obvious what I mean.

I think Postie is scum. But we have nothing to lose leaving her alive, and everything to gain.
In the even that she really is a gunsmith, that is a very powerful role. It will eat the roleblock if nothing else.

Gunsmith is far from a 'very powerful' role. It's pretty obvious that it's a claim to get a CFD on a townie before she gets lynched D2. Skip the first step and lynch her now.

Why are u so sure it's a fake claim?

[I Am Innocent]

Hey garmr got anything to say about postie?

She's probably a gunsmith. Gunsmith isn't exactly a role I would fake claim. It also means town has probably got power roles with guns as well.

What specifically is it about the role that makes it bad for fake-claiming?

Question: if Postie is telling the truth, is that likely our only investigative role?
Question: if Postie is lying, will Postie make it to end game
Question: whether Postie is telling the truth or not, can we still lynch scum D1 if we vote someone else out D1?

It's D1. Games are not won on D1. If Postie is lying, we'll figure it out. If he's telling the truth then that would be crushing to lose our likely only investigative role. It's just never a good move.

My suggestion, if u think Postie is scum vote someone u think is a scum mate. If you don't, look at people on posties wagon, and/or people still pushing his wagon post claim. To me that's Calvary or kush. JJDs push post claim feels too bold for scum.

[I Am Innocent]

Id rather kill postie than calvary I think.

VOTE: postie

Just this page :-/

[I Am Innocent]

IAMINNOCENT I'm totally not pushing his wagon post claim. I don't think he should be lynched, and I said that multiple times.

Do u usually vote people u don't want to lynch?

[I Am Innocent]

And say ud rather kill them...

[I Am Innocent]

U have a weird way of "not pushing his wagon" for someone you "don't think...should be lynched"

[I Am Innocent]

Gunsmith can't pick up mafia docs as well

[I Am Innocent]

Unofficial vote count:

JarJarDrinks (1):

Fire Assassin

Postie (2):

Calvary, RadiantCowbells

Calvary (4):

I Am Innocent, Postie, Expedience, Garmr

I Am Innocent (2):

MURDERCAT, nnn_thekushmountains

acronym (1):

Lapsa

Garmr (1):

JarJarDrinks

Not Voting (2):

acryon, Mr Meeseeks

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-27 12:00:00)

[I Am Innocent]

Kush I'm confused about the 719 quote

How do you link to someone's post with the post number like that??

Id rather kill postie than calvary I think.

VOTE: postie

Just this page :-/

Like I said, I don't want to kill postie, but I'd rather kill her than calvary.
So that's not exactl pushing postie's lynch.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[I Am Innocent]

Not voting Postie who has 4 votes.

Garmr and Calvary both are at 3.

Willing to compromise on garmr to save a un-cc'd GS

[I Am Innocent]

Acronym you need to cast a vote.

Lapsa and FA, ur votes are not doing any good as solo wagons, please move

[I Am Innocent]

thank you IAI for vote count. I don't understand why we are so hesitant to vote garmr, shit's scummy and he's just vt.

I'm fine compromising there.

[I Am Innocent]

Nope

[I Am Innocent]

unvote Calvary
Vote garmr

L-2

[I Am Innocent]

if garmr is scum he deserves an oscar for that performance

Agreed, but at least we aren't lynching a PR.

we don't know if we're lynching a pr.
It might be very hard to prove that claim true or false.

Of course, but with Garmr we

know

we aren't, which is better than not knowing.

outweighing that is the higher likelihood that postie will flip scum than garmr.

Still not pushing posties wagon?

[I Am Innocent]

Just over 30 mins...

[I Am Innocent]

What did Garmr and Kush both have in common D1? Their last vote before voting Garmr was on Calvary.

Yeah I'm continuing my D1 push of the counter wagons to Postie and Garmrs, which was calvary's slot. Let's get it right today...

vote ircher

[I Am Innocent]

yeah, gunsmith+vig+doc for town, rb for scum, setup checks out

thatd be my guess (scum attempted to kill ?? who was protected, roleblocked postie for obvious reasons, vig killed kush which makes sense with a gunsmith)

Last time I was GS town had a vig and scum had a doc.

Doc with GS = godfather with cop

So I don't think ur setup makes much sense.

[I Am Innocent]

If there is a vig + GS, a doc would be mafia aligned:

Mafia doc can save a teammate from the vig kill, effectively weakening a town vig

PLUS

A GS would not get a positive result on a mafia doc, thus weakening the GS power

[I Am Innocent]

GS + vig + doc would be too much power against a RB

(In this scenario a GS is essentially a cop since with no mafia doc, would get all positive hits on scum)

[I Am Innocent]

because postie got roleblocked last night

Could be a town JK that protected him/but also RB'd him

Or there is no vig and no doc and he got straight RB'd, while kush was the NK

[I Am Innocent]

At this point it's all speculation, but I still believe Postie, and will until a CC comes forward.

[I Am Innocent]

also, gunsmith with both a town vig and maf doc.... im unsure how balanced that is, that seems incredibly scumsided since it gives them a godfather and a way to protect themselves against the (most likely 1-shot) vigilante, as well as giving the gunsmith two false results

theres a difference between weakening towns power and basically nullfying it

But if a vig shot doesn't go thru, it's almost like a scum investigation hit.

If there is a vig and their shot didn't go thru, I would suggest a claim.

[I Am Innocent]

GS + vig + doc would be too much power against a RB

(In this scenario a GS is essentially a cop since with no mafia doc, would get all positive hits on scum)

vigilante acts as a miller with gunsmith, so theres a chance of it getting outed if the gs gets a false result

a roleblocker is plenty of power in this setup

Difference between a vig and miller is the vig can prove they're a vig via NKs

Miller you just have to take at their word.

[I Am Innocent]

Here is the game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=63181

In addition to a vig and GS, town had 2 masons and a flower vendor (useless) while scum had a doc and 3 goons.

[I Am Innocent]

I'm staying on ircher.

Neither player gets to L-1 until everyone has commented on the situation. No quick wagons/hammer...

[I Am Innocent]

plus there being a backup cop pushes the setup suddenly way too much in towns favour for my liking

Backup cop with no real cop just confuses town in a GS setup. Only existence is to give a false positive to the GS.

[I Am Innocent]

Please let me read later...at a friends for dinner right now

[I Am Innocent]

I'm here catching up no hammer please

[I Am Innocent]

All caught up. I too think our best bet is to lynch a claimed GS, one has got to be scum. The quickness of the Postie wagon still has me nervous that Postie is the real GS and a mislynch is coming tho.

I'll keep my vote on ircher and think this thru a little more.

[I Am Innocent]

I'm the vig and I shot kush last night.

Which is why I thought Postie was likely JK and the real GS.

Now I'm not sure what to believe.

[I Am Innocent]

also huh seems like for the most part my setup spec was right

This doesn't help prove ur innocence tho since scum would have known a vig/sk would have killed kush (vs them doing it)

[I Am Innocent]

Oh lol at u asking about that GS/vig/doc game since u played in it as ur alt. nice touch

[I Am Innocent]

Let me put it this way:

As scum, I have little reason to directly cc Postie. If I did, then I basically outed myself for an even trade. Gunsmith is not super powerful cuz it can get all sorts of false results.

This is the part I'm struggling with. (Yes I know my vote is here but hear me out):

Assuming Ircher is scum, he gets to 3 votes. Then Fakeclaims GS which means

a) if RC is town, his team must have a rolecop or GS themselves. I personally think scum is much more likely to have a doctor, but rolecop/GS would be a possibility. Also meant they investigated somebody with a gun (me and RC, assuming he is town are probably the only 2 they could have hit. 2/(12-3-1)...25% chance of that happening (assumes 3 scum and they know postie is GS so they don't include him in the investigation pool).

b) if RC is scum, holy cow, what a gambit. which I wouldn't necessarily put past scum RC, but still, why go there? Plus there is the "crumb" pointed out by RC, why even mention a back up cop there unless he was planning to use that crumb later (or really is a backup cop).

And under a), if scum have a GS or rolecop, would they also have a RBer or JKer too? They would have too if Postie is town GS and he was blocked/JK'd last night. That seems too much for scum.

So yeah, I'm getting nervous about voting Ircher. Something isn't lining up with the Ircher investigation of RC in conjunction with the no result of Postie.

I hear the group wanting a 1 vs 1....50% chance of hitting scum. I just feel like we're doomed to hit the wrong one.

If we lynch Postie, and he flips town, one of me or dweelie dies and the other gets roleblocked
If we lynch ircher, and he flips town, at least that prob means there isn't a roleblocker so at least we can use some night abilities.

Long story short, I see the bigger benefit of lynching ircher first, but at this point I'm not entirely against lynching outside of Postie/Ircher either. There are likely 2 scum out there in the remaining pool of 10 (20%), and we force scum to either 1) continue roleblocking Postie (if he is the town GS), or let Ircher keeps getting results (if he is the town GS). If they opt to kill the real GS, the other is auto lynched the next day.

Pedit - JOAT would get a positive on a GS?

[I Am Innocent]

unvote ircher for now

Postie who else is scum?

[I Am Innocent]

RC what are your thoughts on the joat claim?

[I Am Innocent]

How did ircher know RC had a gun/was a backup cop then at the same time u were RB'd/JK'd?

[I Am Innocent]

My head is seriously spinning lol

[I Am Innocent]

I'd say Ircher/JarJarDrinks/MURDERCAT are the scumteam.

What happened to your acronym scum read from end of D1?

[I Am Innocent]

vote Postie

I shot RC for the record

[I Am Innocent]

I haven't looked yet but will also look at both the d1 and d2 wagons of Postie.

[I Am Innocent]

Based on memory tho I'd say expedience and me seeks are likely town.

[I Am Innocent]

Thanks heat for modding!

Good game all. Great call ircher on the N1 investigation target. That was a key to the game. Also a good call by our Joat to commute N1.

I'm not sure why they didn't try to RB Postie or RC N2 tho.

Overall a lot of fun thanks!