Mini Normal 1817 - Dank Meme Mafia (Game Ended)

[Saru]

Hey! Dank memes for life!

[Saru]

alpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpacaalpaca

I'm triggered. VOTE: Kraska77

[Saru]

Are the ^_^ faces making anyone else really nervous?

What do you mean? ^_^

[Saru]

Beeboy's most likely town.

IV probs town.

But you're probably town anyway.

I'm assuming this is reaction testing.

[Saru]

Saru if you thinks it's a reaction test then why would you out it.

Seemed quite obvious after this:

So welcome to being my first strong townread, and that only took like 3-4 posts.
Which everyone else was more obvtown.

She pretty much confirmed it herself.

[Saru]

I'm wondering how seriously to take beeboy's miller claim

Obviously don't tell us if it is relevant to you now.

Don't worry bud I'm not that dumb

Strange thing to say. If you're not dumb enough to point out the relevance to you, why even make it relevant in the first place by bringing it up?

[Saru]

Dierfire's 167 is similar to his posting style in my last game with him where he was town. Probably town.

[Saru]

Saru, is this one post being similar to a past town game reliable enough for a read? If so, why do you believe it is worth putting stock into?

Nah, wasn't a read.

[Saru]

Saru, is this one post being similar to a past town game reliable enough for a read? If so, why do you believe it is worth putting stock into?

Nah, wasn't a read.

So, "probably town" isn't a read then?

Not a comprehensive one, no. Just a starting point.

[Saru]

@Saru

What about my 167 feels similar to our previous game?

Just the willingness to break down a player's actions and provide a read. You seemed to do that without question in the previous game as well. Of course, this means nothing in the long run, but for now, it feels town.

[Saru]

I'm getting a town vibe from both Luna and beeboy after their interactions with each other. Luna tends to do a lot of "in hindsight" type posts, which come off as townie because scum would probably be nervous about being so wishy-washy at the start of the game. It also doesn't look forced or faked.

I want to see more from MURDERCAT and I don't quite understand his vote on Luna.

[Saru]

Cool, this is one I could feel anyway!
VOTE: Random

I like this from Aristo because he was already voting Random for voting the miller claim. His sheep is consistent in thought. However, it is strange that he forgot he was voting Random. Or at-least, I'm assuming he did.

[Saru]

If she pretty much confirmed it to the point that you were okay with outing it, seems pretty trivial to even bring it up.

I brought it up as more of a question towards Luna to confirm that she was in fact reaction testing. Would have help towards my read of her. She claimed it wasn't a reaction test, but just playstyle. I can live with that.

Omits the post where we've already discussed my original comment and how I realized why beeboy claimed immediately. Also, that sentence doesn't make any sort of sense to my brain.

You made that post AFTER my question towards you, so I can't "omit" what doesn't exist... Plus, your answer seemed fine to me and hence why I didn't push you on it further. As for your brain, can't help you there.

Feels like just chiming in to say he's okay with what people are doing, but throws really weak shade at Ari by finding it strange he forgot where his vote was. I'm gonna go meta Saru to see how this fits with his previous play, considering I've never played with him before. Regardless, VOTE: Saru for now

Not sure how you read it like that. It was an observation to show to Luna why Aristo WASN'T just sheeping with Luna when Aristo voted for Random. Even Aristo had forgotten that he voted Random. It wasn't shade. If it were, I wouldn't have said I felt "good" about his post, because then it would seem inconsistent.

DotW, I appreciate you picking up your activity. Good on you for taking the initiative.

[Saru]

Saru, is that your main account or is it an alt?

Read my wiki.

[Saru]

Not sure how you read it like that. It was an observation to show to Luna why Aristo WASN'T just sheeping with Luna when Aristo voted for Random. Even Aristo had forgotten that he voted Random. It wasn't shade. If it were, I wouldn't have said I felt "good" about his post, because then it would seem inconsistent.

See to me, it did feel inconsistent. You said you were fine with the vote and pointed out how it was in fact already on random but then still wanted to point out that it was "strange" he forgot where his vote was. That strange comment is what I'm referring to

Yes it was strange. Not scummy. Don't get the two confused. I eventually chalked it up to him not paying much attention to the game as a whole, which isn't surprising as it seems most people here aren't.

Lol. I hate meta sections that are like "too bad I don't have meta". People will still try to meta you as best they can. Continuing that thought, we aren't playing with this Saru: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p7989681

Yes people will try to meta me as best they can. However, that doesn't mean I actually have one. And yes, you aren't playing with that Saru, at the moment. That Saru had a lot to work with at the start of that game. This Saru doesn't. This Saru might become that other Saru depending on the eventual activity level.

[Saru]

Alright, so looking back at some of these posts: yes, I'm active lurking. Explanation for that is the last point in 462. Seeing as more people are starting to pick up activity now, I can start to do some scum hunting. I haven't been trying to dodge it, more like I'm trying to read into things too much, when there is too little content, which might give me a false read which I'm wary of from my last game. In other words, I'm treading more cautiously as a whole. I would argue, given the circumstances, that, that is NAI.

Let me address some concerns about my experience with mafia: I'm in no way, shape, or form a "noobie." I'm not sure what one might consider a noobie, but I happen to think that after playing mafia for a couple of years, I can safely say I'm not someone who needs their hand held through games, or that I don't understand basic concepts in mafia games. Looking at some of the ages in the game, I've probably been playing since some of you were in diapers(half kidding). That's not to say I don't have a couple of mental hiccups from time to time, but, hey, who doesn't?

As for where my reads stand right now:

Spoiler: Reads

Town

:
DotW - Initially, his ISO and vote of me came off to me as trying to appeal to those who were complaining about inactivity and looking for town-points. However, when I looked at some of his confusion surrounding my 119, it seemed to be genuine. He seemed to make a mistake in terms of the timing of his and my posts, which I feel is more of a townie mistake than scum mistake. Scum wouldn't be this reckless so early on. He seemed eager to get his activity level up, which contributed to that mistake.

beeboy - Mainly because of the miller claim, which seemed like SOP. Pointing out the day-talk was a good catch, and I don't really see that as trying to get town points because she claimed miller which seems ballsy already for scum to do. Two ballsy things so early on is unlikely for scum, but I could be conf-biasing. I like the 570 from him because the reasoning is solid. I can totally see his concern about my active lurking and how it can come off as dodging scum hunting. It didn't seem like scum reaching for reasons to vote a town player.

Dierfire - This is mostly based off of my last game with him where he was town. The tone of his posts seem pretty similar to that game and his 472 is basically the same reasoning he used to town read another player in that game. The fact that he's consistent in his read methodology is a good sign. Would like to see more from him now that people are picking up on the voting.

Maybe Town

:
Luna - This is a tough one and also the one I'm most cautious about. She's been very active and a lot of her thought processes seem to be consistent and she seems to back up her reasoning very well and without fail. Some posts with good reasoning include: 273 498 542 574. Her 416 -> 553 is VERY consistent in thought and the explanation of her voting methodology seems to be solid. However, her 586 has put a little bit of paranoia in my head and that is why she is "maybe town". I feel like she might be the kind of player who plays very solid scum via lots of solid reasoning. Keep in mind, this feeling has no real reasoning behind it, because it's just that, a feeling. I guess time will tell if my paranoia has some weight to it.

Null

:
MURDERCAT - Not a whole ton of content to go off of here. His reads list in 490 is mostly gut/meta. I'm curious to see how 611 responds to MURDER voting him and how MURDER responds back. That will probably help put MURDER in either pile for me.

Alpaca - Not enough content either. Most of the content that is posted seems to be mostly IIoA. His town reads in 441 give me a severe case of indigestion. More reasoning and more reads please.

Kraska - Has spent most of her time complaining about not a lot of content, but hasn't produced much herself. Either way, what she has produced does seem superficial, but I like her explanation for it in 435. 588 feels like a townie boohoo about not being able to scum read people. Closest to being thrown into my town pile.

Random - Like his DotW read for seeming natural. I kind of had that same feeling. 442 seemed like a valid response to Postie. Waiting to see what he thinks of the votes on 611 and myself.

IV - I can't really see him gaining anything from dragging on the conversation about fool and normal/open/etc. games as either alignment, as Luna points out in 236. His willingness to step back and look at his own reasoning as being silly from time to time is a good thing, but could just be scum who is nervous about slipping up. Will wait for more content as he promises to give.

Maybe Scum

:
Aristo - His reasoning for thinking that 611 couldn't be scum because 611 "forgot" he was in the game(566) makes me wanna cry. I'm happy he saw that, that reasoning was pretty poor. Most of his ISO feels like coasting and VERY reactive. He only really posts to respond to people who comment on his posts and give him questions and then bows out. Throws a few petty comments here and there and hasn't really done much. When someone does counter his reasoning, he doesn't seem to fight back much, and just says "ah I see your point, ok moving on" which just feels like cautious scum trying to avoid a huge conflict to avoid attention. Most of his questions towards people feel too safe and like busy-body. As a note, he hasn't actually put out a reads list of any consequence the entire game.

611 - An associative read with Aristo. Votes for Aristo in 213 but then explains that it was really just to throw attention towards Aristo. Says he wasn't happy with what he got(being very ambiguous about it in the process) and then says that Aristo "wouldn't be a good lynch at all for Day 1." I honestly have no idea what his thought process was in that post, but it came off as scummy. Needs to pick up the activity and start explaining his actions in more detail.

Postie - This is my weakest "maybe scum" read. I just really don't like the start of her ISO about how she's so paranoid about Luna and all that jazz. It feels forced/fake in a way. Her townread of Aristo in 242 comes off as scummy because she never really explains why she thinks Aristo is town. She's been asking others to explain their reads, but she never cares to do it herself. Uses ambiguous language similar to Aristo by saying "This feels like his town game in like a bunch of different ways" without ever listing those ways. I guess this would be a slight association read with Aristo.

I'm not really confident enough to move anyone into the "totally scum" pile right now, as per my "cautious" point above.

[Saru]

With that being said:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: 611

[Saru]

With that being said:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: 611

If 611 is a preflip associative which requires my scum flip first, why the hell are you voting him and not me??

Pressure.

[Saru]

Classic.

Now that the fact your vote is pressure has been announced, does it not diminish the effects of the pressure?

No. Pressure is pressure. Someone who refuses to respond to it will most likely end up being policy lynched.

[Saru]

I mean if you want me to explain my reasoning you could always do what I'm doing and, you know, ask?
Furthermore, why is it scummy when I give reads without reasons, but not when anyone else consistently doesn't do that?

See, the issue with that is I shouldn't have to ask. You can't go around expecting people to provide reasons for their reads, but not do it yourself. If you're the kind of person that loves to ask "why" a lot, I can only assume you're the kind of person who would be willing to give explanations for things without question. Am I wrong?

Throwing shade onto others doesn't help you here. The issue is that you choosing not to provide reasons for a SPECIFIC person is part of an associative scum read. What beeboy doing is different. Covering the entire player-list with a read with no explanation seems to be part of an agenda of some sort for him. Or just playstyle. Either way.

I can go through his ISO again and pinpoint the exact things that feel towny to me if you want? This is D1; expecting me to be able to give detailed explanations of everything already is a touch unrealistic. I'm still in the process of getting a general feel for the overall playerlist.
And again, why am I scum for using ambiguous language but not anyone else?

Yes, I understand that you might not be fully acquainted. That doesn't excuse you giving no reasoning. Never asked for detailed explanations, but just anything. You're scummy(not scum) for using ambiguous language as part of an associative read. If it weren't one, then you probably wouldn't look so scummy to me.

[Saru]

I honestly think you did it for your own survival moreso.

Can we get more votes on Saru please!
He was tied with 611 at 3 votes each, has me as his top "probably scum" read, and yet voted 611 for "pressure," making him the lead wagon, instead of pushing me. His interactions with me don't feel like I'm someone he's scumreading either, so I'd bet it's fabricated.

I guess you don't understand what I mean by pressure. By pressure I mean getting him to produce content. Anything. My goal right now isn't to lynch any one person because I don't have anyone in a "total scum" read yet. I'm feeling my "maybe scum" people out via their responses. Since 611 hasn't produced a response, I'm hoping my vote on him will do that. You and Postie have responded, which is good. Now I'm waiting on 611 before I go any further with my reads.

[Saru]

Yes. If I can take time to ask people "why?" then you can do the same for me.

Huh? That's not the point at all. I just found it odd that you ask "why" a lot but chose not to produce an explanation on someone you had a STRONG town read for. Especially considering he was your first one. Why do you expect others to ask you for reasons? Better yet, why SHOULD they have to ask you for reasons? If you can go through Aristo's ISO and pinpoint things you felt were townie, why didn't you do that earlier when you town read him?

This is playstyle for me too though; D1 I attack random things and then consolidate what I'm thinking once I've sorted most of the playerlist. Do you want links to past towngames?

No thanks on the past town games, I'll figure that part out on my own. This might very well be your playstyle, but with the kind of playstyle it is, it sounds as if it could work equally well both as town or scum. Do you disagree?

[Saru]

Alpaca - Not enough content either.

Most of the content that is posted seems to be mostly IIoA

. His town reads in 441 give me a severe case of indigestion. More reasoning and more reads please.

Why is this maybe town then? You seem to point out negative/scummy things but nothing towny, unless his townreads giving you indigestion is towny?

It's not? It's null. Look more carefully at the reads list.

[Saru]

Because ISOing and writing my thoughts down in a way that makes sense takes time and effort that I would rather spend sorting everyone else. Especially since I mostly work with PoE, getting an impression of the whole player list takes priority because I need to do that to decide where to vote and apply pressure. If I stopped to articulate all the thoughts I was having about everyone, that process would be severely impeded.

Once

I've decided who needs to die, I'll do a readswall and give explanations to persuade people to vote there.
In other words, I'm not explaining myself as much at this point in time because

I'm trying to solve the game

rather than make myself look town.

Fair enough. This is actually a good response. I guess I'll hold you to your promise about a read wall on the target you want lynched before I do anything further with my read.

[Saru]

Aristo - When someone does counter his reasoning, he doesn't seem to fight back much, and just says "ah I see your point, ok moving on" which just feels like cautious scum trying to avoid a huge conflict to avoid attention.

Meh, maybe I'm pursuing the wrong line of things. Iunno. Not feeling it myself.

Well then...this is awkward. Any reason why you're not feeling it Aristo? What has got you thinking that you might be off here? Besides what other people are saying.

[Saru]

UNVOTE: 611
Will come back to this.

@Aristo, any reason you ignored my question?

Any reason why you're not feeling it Aristo? What has got you thinking that you might be off here? Besides what other people are saying.

[Saru]

@611 VLA = Voluntary leave of absence.

Isn't it Vacation/Limited Access?

[Saru]

[Saru]

I'm just not seeing a sorting of the game from you, nor am I seeing the array of interactions I expect.

I'm at work, so I'll see about making an actual case later.

So I'm assuming you felt my reads list wasn't an attempt at sorting in the game? If so, why? Also, why haven't you put out a real reads list yet?

If you want to make an actual case on me, then does that mean you now feel that you'll actually be pursuing the right line of things, in contrast to 645? If you do, what changed your mind from 645?

[Saru]

I'm still hung up on Saru's lack of commitment to his reads. In 177 he clearly shown a townlean on Dire, but he quickly retracts it as a "starting point" when questioned. This is the first thing that set me off about him. He continues to undermine it in 290 as if he's trying to keep all options open.

It's really strange that you would say that my 177 is what set you off about me, seeing as in 187 you said you "could deal with it." This shows to me that you're not consistent in your thought process about me and are likely reaching for reasons, rather than trying to find actual ones. Only strengthens my scum read of you.

The progression of my read on Dierfire seems to be clear enough, in my opinion. In 177 I say "probably town" because of his play last game matching up with that in this game, and then in 290, I clearly state that he "feels town" in the short term because of that. If anything, me saying that it doesn't matter in the "long term" matches up well with my "starting point" comment as it shows that I'm reading him as town in the short term. It shows consistency in thought process, which you don't seem to have at the moment.

Throws easy townreads on Luna and Beeboy with little reasoning after 60 posts without having any real reasoning or commenting on anything else from the thread.

If me throwing "easy townreads" on Luna and Beeboy with little reasoning is scummy, then isn't your 226 equally as scummy? You literally say that Luna and Beeboy are town because of discussion and flow, which is similar to what I said about Luna. Again, you're reaching instead of thinking.

After making a readslist, he seems to commit to those reads. I've seen this from scum. Heck, I've done this as scum! You play it vague until you are forced to commit to something, then you stick to that or fear of looking wishy-washy.

Congratulations, you just contradicted yourself here. Earlier in your post you said the issue with me is that I don't commit to my reads, and now the issue is that I commit to them? So I'm scum if I do and scum if I don't? That's a scummy argument, in my opinion.

Aristo is now my strongest scum read by far. 611's scum read is also getting stronger for me, given the association I point to in my reads list. I'd be happy with either person's lynch today, but given that 611 has a wagon on him, I want to see what he has to say about that and the accusations thrown his way as well as a definite scum read from him before I proceed with a vote on him.

[Saru]

VOTE: 611
And that's hammer.

[Saru]

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Saru]

Aristophanes - On the one hand, I have no issue with you, on the other... No, I'm seeing things. The meanderings of an old man made me think that you were choosing the easy reads, but who am I kidding, that's how this works.

ari: he's uhh...idk i cant place him one way or another so im putting him as null for now. gut says town though...idk

Both scum were HIGHLY ambiguous about their read on Aristo. It's rather obvious why this is. More votes on him please.

[Saru]

Ari your interaction with the 611 wagon is weird, you gave an obviously fake intent and 611 did not react to you asking for a claim. I take that to suggest you are scum with him and he was comfortable knowing you wouldn't hammer, iff (if and only if) he is scum.

Murder hit the nail on the fucking head imo.

[Saru]

Lmfao!

I'm the Vig and I shot Kraska! XD

Get your fucking votes off me please

The way I see it, with a mafia doctor and two NKs, he is either town vig OR SK. Let's not forget about the SK. A town vig claim is easily lynch-able in this scenario because then there is only 1 scum left. We have a 50/50 chance on hitting SK here, and then going after the last scum.

Either way, we don't lose much if we lose the town vig in this scenario. It's worth it.

[Saru]

Lmfao!

I'm the Vig and I shot Kraska! XD

Get your fucking votes off me please

The way I see it, with a mafia doctor and two NKs, he is either town vig OR SK. Let's not forget about the SK. A town vig claim is easily lynch-able in this scenario because then there is only 1 scum left. We have a 50/50 chance on hitting SK here, and then going after the last scum.

Either way, we don't lose much if we lose the town vig in this scenario. It's worth it.

Are you fucking serious??

How about we don't, okay?

How about you actually try to refute my point? Oh right, because you know I'm right. If you were town vig, you would agree to this plan. A sacrifice is worth it if you're town vig. Even if you're town vig, then it confirms that there is no SK in the game and we only need to kill one more scum. Your unwillingness to sacrifice is noted.

[Saru]

lmfao omg please just stop random. If he were vig, he would have shot me because I was his only real scumread D1. There is no indication of him ever scum reading Kraska D1 that would make him want to shoot her.

[Saru]

lmfao omg please just stop random. If he were vig, he would have shot me because I was his only real scumread D1. There is no indication of him ever scum reading Kraska D1 that would make him want to shoot her.

Except that when we had a fusking Scumflip D1, I went back through, Iso'd you, Kraska, and 611, and found enough associatives to make me shoot him instead of you.

lmfao what. What associatives? Please quote them for me, because I'm obviously blind.

[Saru]

lmfao omg please just stop random. If he were vig, he would have shot me because I was his only real scumread D1. There is no indication of him ever scum reading Kraska D1 that would make him want to shoot her.

Except that when we had a fusking Scumflip D1, I went back through, Iso'd you, Kraska, and 611, and found enough associatives to make me shoot him instead of you.

lmfao what. What associatives? Please quote them for me, because I'm obviously blind.

You're relentless.
I'll see what I can do, but you are distracting from the actual scumhunting we need to do here.

Yes, I'm relentless because I know that your claim of who you shot doesn't match up with your thinking. I don't see any real link between Kraska and 611 on D1. Like none at all. Please enlighten me because I just don't see it.

[Saru]

I actually left out another possibility which is why I think some people are confused.
It's not that he can ONLY be vig OR sk. He could also be scum, which means that a vig or SK would still be around if Aristo was lynched.

If he is vig: he shot Kraska who he scum read after the flip. I don't see this.
If he is SK: he killed Kraska because she had no real opinion on him, which makes her a safe kill overall.
If he is scum: makes sense with the evidence from Kraska and 611 that I pointed to. If he gets lynched and is scum, then that means that there is still a vig or SK around. I'm curious to see if anyone will actually cc his vig claim here.

So I don't mean to say that he is only vig or SK. That was my mistake in haste after seeing his vig claim. He could still VERY WELL be scum. Knowing that there is a mafia doctor and two NKs, all three possibilities make sense. This means we have a 66.6%(repeating of course) chance of hitting a non-town player here. I'm pretty sure that's worth it.

[Saru]

If he is scum, then that doesn't mean that there is NECESSARILY a vig in the game. So I really don't think the "real" vig is going to CC, because there probably isn't one. Unless the SK wants to draw attention to themselves by CC'ing? I doubt that.

The possibility of him being scum or SK is worth it. 2 positive flips for town beats 1 negative flip. Even if he is town vig, then that confirms no SK and only 1 scum left(I've never seen 4 scum in a mini normal). What is the point of being so hesitant in this case? I really don't understand. It makes 0 sense to me. How can you possibly argue this!?

[Saru]

Are you seriously saying I could be Scum fakeclaiming Vig and hoping the actual Vig is actually an SK?

I can't deal with this.

VOTE: Saru

If you aren't lynched, I'm shooting you tonight.

Are you kidding me!? SERIOUSLY? Of course you would fucking claim vig in this scenario as scum. You're the last fucking scum left in that case. Of course you're going to take the risk and hope there is an SK instead of a vig. What else would you do as scum!? Huh!? Both you're partners would be dead if you're scum. You would be desperate and hope you made the right call. No shit sherlock.

[Saru]

Yup, I'm going to bet you're scum and not SK. If no one CCs you later on, then that means there is an SK around who is obviously hiding. I'm 100% certain about this.

And yes, scum WOULD make a gambit in this scenario. WHAT ELSE COULD THEY DO!? They saw their partners dead and that they were at L-2 and hoped for the best. Stop denying that, that is a possibility.

[Saru]

Also, I like how you didn't vote me at first because I couldn't possibly be scum because I've been too crazy about getting you lynched. But now you're voting me because I'm scum because I'm being too crazy. Sounds like you were trying to appeal to me to get me to back off. Not doing it.

[Saru]

Yup, I'm going to bet you're scum and not SK. If no one CCs you later on, then that means there is an SK around who is obviously hiding. I'm 100% certain about this.

And yes, scum WOULD make a gambit in this scenario. WHAT ELSE COULD THEY DO!? They saw their partners dead and that they were at L-2 and hoped for the best. Stop denying that, that is a possibility.

Maybe some scum would, but I would not.

I'm a Vig and there is

probably

no SK.

lmfao really? If you're vig, then THERE IS NO SK. Like, none at all. That'd be impossible and horribly unbalanced. The fact that you said "probably" reveals a lot to me.

[Saru]

Yup, I'm going to bet you're scum and not SK. If no one CCs you later on, then that means there is an SK around who is obviously hiding. I'm 100% certain about this.

And yes, scum WOULD make a gambit in this scenario. WHAT ELSE COULD THEY DO!? They saw their partners dead and that they were at L-2 and hoped for the best. Stop denying that, that is a possibility.

Maybe some scum would, but I would not.

I'm a Vig and there is

probably

no SK.

lmfao really? If you're vig, then THERE IS NO SK. Like, none at all. That'd be impossible and horribly unbalanced. The fact that you said "probably" reveals a lot to me.

Lmfao fuck off XD

It is unlikely, but possible that I shot the same person as an SK, should there be only 2 Mafia.

I do not believe this to be the case, so I think it's safe to say there isn't one.

Yes, yes, after I point out that you said "probably", you quickly switch to "safe to say." Give me a break. Can we lynch this already!? Holy crap.

[Saru]

Also, I like how you didn't vote me at first because I couldn't possibly be scum because I've been too crazy about getting you lynched. But now you're voting me because I'm scum because I'm being too crazy. Sounds like you were trying to appeal to me to get me to back off. Not doing it.

Nope, you're just being a dumbass and I don't want to deal with it.

Again, no actual refutation of point here. Just plain insults. This is what scum does when they know they have no real argument.

[Saru]

Can we lynch ME already!? Holy crap.

FTFY

hahaha ur so funny oh look im laughing

[Saru]

Mod forgot to say i was V/LA but i also have some free time rn so im going to contribute.

1) There's no way there's both SK and Vig, but this has already been covered.
2) If Art is scum fake claiming Vig, vig shouldnt CC unless they are getting lynched, Vig can simply shoot Art during the night, we dont need to lynch Art.
3) If Art is town vig, i dont need to say why it's a bad idea to lynch him.
4) If Art is SK, then scum likely is going to want to kill him during the night, same if he's town vig.

So why do we need to lynch Art again?

The thing is, there is probably no vig in the game even if Art is scum. It could be Art scum and then an SK out there somewhere. Obviously the SK will never CC.

The reason I think Art is most likely scum is because of the way 611 and Kraska chose to read him. They were both very careful with him. I don't think this was coincidence. Also, read this: 762. MURDER most likely hit the nail on the head there. Art's response to him was weak as fuck. Basically, it was a non-response. The associatives between the three are way too much.

Also, vig is THE ONLY THING that makes sense for scum to claim here. Both partners are dead and the scum was at L-2. They need to make a gambit here. They have no other choice.

Again, I don't understand what's wrong if Art is vig. How is that a major loss to town? If anything, it confirms that there is only 1 scum left and no SK. Then the hunt for that last scum begins. Heck, wouldn't it be dumb for me as the last scum to even suggest this scenario, because then I'd be setting up my own lynch on D3 just by saying that.

If Aristo flips vig, go ahead and lynch me D3. I don't care. I'm willing to take one for the team. If I'm scum, yay, you guys win D3. Congrats. I just don't think him being vig is very likely here given the evidence.

[Saru]

Luna, you do understand that SK killing "potential threat" doesn't make much sense. SK NOW KNOWS that Aristo is scum. Because there isn't both a vig and SK in this game. That's been established. So if Aristo claimed vig, the SK now knows that Aristo HAS TO be scum. Essentially, for Aristo to survive, he would have hoped not to get to L-2 and having to claim. You have to understand that their are 2 potential win-cons here that are bad for town, not just one. Aristo lost his win-con when he got to L-2 because he had to claim, and he chose to claim vig. That was game over for him because now the SK can just kill him N2 and be on their merry way with their own win-con. But since this town can't see that and refuses to lynch Aristo, now the SK and scum win-cons are still in play. Which is doubly worse for town. Congrats.

[Saru]

Meh. Whatever. This town has no brains. I can see that with beeboy.

Yes, I'm informed, to an extent.

I'm a town follower. Basically, I can follow a player at night and see what action that player performed(i.e. protecting, killing, etc.) but not WHO they did it to. I followed Art last night because I was scum reading him, and I got a result back of him performing a "killing" action.

I knew at that point that he was either scum, SK, or vig. Looking at the evidence and the percentage argument that I laid out previously, it only makes sense to lynch him because we have 2/3 chance of hitting a non-town player. Which also helps us confirm other things based on the flip. I guess I didn't present that argument too well or that people just don't understand it or what's the deal.

I didn't want to claim earlier because I was hoping Art could have been lynched without a claim having to go out. Because, now, if Art is vig, that means that the last scum now knows both town PRs. Which is bad for obvious reasons.

[Saru]

Lol well fuck.
UNVOTE:

Your case is still malarkey.

No it's not. Dude, and I'm saying this genuinely, if you're town vig, why are you so against being lynched? Like, you haven't told me specifically why my case is bullshit. You're a player with experience. I feel like you out of most people would understand this.

Please, show me why my case is crap. I really want to know. Where exactly am I off? And please, be specific. If you can show me that I'm just dead wrong, I'll stop pushing you and get to actual scum-hunting. But you've not attempted to do this, instead choosing to throw petty insults my way. I think you can see why I think you're scum.

[Saru]

There has to be only 1 scum left. I've never heard of a mini normal multi-ball. Every mini normal I see is ALWAYS 3 scum.

Both Vig and SK can't exist because there were only 2 deaths last night. Why would vig(apparently Art) shoot someone, and the SK just sit back? The more deaths from either faction(for SK) is a good thing.

[Saru]

If there is a SK or another scum let's just find them first because it isn't like Ari can submit kills after tomorrow without looking terrabad. ^_^

Funny enough, I am X-shot.

Just curious, by X-shot do you mean 1 shot only or more?

[Saru]

scum!Ari was the most fos'd for a bit due to associatives, but I think it would've been weird to claim vig as scum. If he was going to gambit, what if a tracker or something else indicative was on him instead of follower? That would show that he killed DotW instead of kraska. But more importantly, after seeing kraska dead, he would know that there is a vig or SK in the game somewhere. He would get counterclaimed by a vig and autolose, or the SK would stay silent. I'm not 100% sure on the theory, but I doubt that letting the SK know who you are as scum is a good strategy. So scum!Ari makes almost no sense to me.

But see, that's the thing, a gambit is just that. He of course doesn't know what roles are in play. How was he to know that the mafia doc was going to be lynched and then his partner killed(if he's scum). It obviously was an out of the blue thing. He would have hoped there wasn't a vig in the game.

The whole point I was trying to make earlier is that scum!Ari could have still very well won the game if he wasn't forced to claim. The nature of the kills would have led him to claim vig as scum. At that point, he would be screwed because either he would be lynched, or if town believed him(which seems to be the case), he would probably be killed by SK. However, even then, if there is a protective town role in the game(which I'm not sure of), it stands to reason that scum!Ari could have breezed through the game with the SK never being able to kill him. Of course, my claim makes that more complicated, as I would probably take priority over him in terms of protection. Point being, scum!Ari's win-con is still very much in play with the vig claim. I don't think it matters much at this point though. Guess we'll just have to wait until the night to see what happens.

I'm not sure I totally understand the votes on Alpaca. I'm assuming it's pressure to get him to talk. I don't know his status since he's V/LA until narnia, so I'm going to wait and see if he even says anything.

[Saru]

Ari claiming that shot makes it impossible to win the game as scum. Ari is clear. Let's lynch the last scum and if the game continues we flip Ari.

But it doesn't. But, I've argued that enough. There is also the possibility of Ari SK and whatnot.

And, again, even if he's vig, he is still 100% the best choice for a lynch here because of the 2/3 chance. I don't buy the whole SK and vig in same game theory(that they both killed the same person, very unlikely), which is the only thing that makes my point invalid.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sad times.

[Saru]

Ari claiming that shot makes it impossible to win the game as scum. Ari is clear. Let's lynch the last scum and if the game continues we flip Ari.

But it doesn't. But, I've argued that enough. There is also the possibility of Ari SK and whatnot.

And, again, even if he's vig, he is still 100% the best choice for a lynch here because of the 2/3 chance. I don't buy the whole SK and vig in same game theory(that they both killed the same person, very unlikely), which is the only thing that makes my point invalid.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sad times.

No matter what his role is he's getting shot tonight by someone so why lynch him?

It just helps us to get info quicker. I'm just not content with spending all of D2 looking for, what is probably going to be a ML. It just makes sense to act on the info you have at hand, rather than just blindly lynch someone.

With the current state of the game, I don't think we're really going to catch scum today. Especially if there is only one. 611 was a lucky/policy lynch. Nothing to be proud of, basically.

But, meh, go ahead and spend a week or so looking for someone to mislynch. Have fun.

[Saru]

Also, if Ari is SK, I feel like there's probably an investigative role somewhere that can confirm it.

Probably an investigative role somewhere

Probably an investigative role

an investigative role

investigative role

May the lord help this town. Amen.

[Saru]

Saru, there is a VERY high likelihood that Ari is a town vig.

zzzz doesn't matter zzzz still needs to be lynched zzzz

[Saru]

Did you read the rest of that post? That was pretty much the only line that didn't matter.

I did. If he's SK, scum now know this. He's dead. If he's scum, the SK now knows this. He's dead. Either way, he's screwed. My point still stands that if he wasn't forced to claim, he could have still been able to win as either role. And given the fact that there might be a town protective pr somewhere, he could still win as either role if my claim hadn't happened. Basically, nothing is still out of consideration.

I'm going to stop arguing about him though. It really doesn't matter. Just hurry up and ML. This is getting boring.

[Saru]

Just you.

[Saru]

Nah, I'll stick to being bad.

[Saru]

You scumreading me for "posturing" is weak as hell, and I bet you know that. Just admit that you want to lynch me due to PoE or me not being a part of the townbloc or something. I'll take that at least.

lmfao IV speaking the truth. Preach yo.

[Saru]

VOTE: IV

L-1

I dislike his defence and case and feel he's not really scum hunting.

What's wrong with his defense? Is his scum read on Alpaca via associates not a form of scum hunting?

[Saru]

Meh, I don't know about IV either way. If he's scum though, Postie's reason is definitely not why lmfao. I'll give someone else the honor of hammering.

[Saru]

First off, I am

NOT

x-shot.

Secondly, I can believe IV's claim because he pretty much tells us that he knows there is a second investigative role in 924 and then of course him saying "Dier is town." As scum tracker, he would have had to thought ahead to him being a lynch candidate and then reaching L-1 and all that to leave these crumbs behind. Of course, this isn't out of the realm of possibility, but it just feels unlikely.

Third, I'm willing to bet there might just be a ninja, instead of RB. I might just be reaching for the easy explanation here, but doesn't scum RB kind of screw with the scum doc's ability? Meaning, the doc is there to protect his scum partners, and in a way, RB can do the same(from suspicion). I don't see them both being on the same team if two investigative town roles exist. If IV didn't see Dier target anyone, that of course still means that Dier could just be ninja, and not just town. If he was RB'd, he would have gotten a "no result" instead, which he doesn't point to. I think a scum ninja like Art points to just makes more sense. But, let me know if I'm off.

Lastly, can Alpaca get like a nudge by the mod or something to post? I understand he's V/LA, but it's been 4 days without even a single "hi im still here and alive" post, which is sad.

[Saru]

Calling it now aristo Saru scumteam.
Saru really makes sense as scum here.
Their push on aristo was never going to go through if they both claimed PRs. They were in a nasty position and this push could make sense as a gamble.

[Saru]

I mean, to be fair, Alpaca's post was literally all just filler lmfao. IIoA.

Anyways, I'm terrible at spec setup so a lot of what Luna said on the last page read like a foreign language to me lol. It'd be nice if you could ELI5.

The only thing I got from that is that I'm supposed to follow IV, right?

[Saru]

From my count, he is at 4 votes. IV, beeboy, MURDER, and Luna.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: AlpacaAlpaca

This is now L-1.

[Saru]

IV dies, Saru is framed.

lol

[Saru]

Anyways, I wasn't role-blocked last night. IV didn't perform an action. If I was role-blocked, I would have gotten no result. This pretty much confirms a ninja, yes?

[Saru]

Come to think of it, since a scum roleblock couldn't kill and rb at the same time, still isn't off the table, so forget that lol. But having both a tracker and follower in game most likely means ninja.

[Saru]

VT, anyway, no it means he didnt perform an action unless you're saying that IV was a ninja (which he wasnt).

lol obviously he wasn't. I'm saying that since he died, his action didn't go through, and that I received that result to show I wasn't RB'd.

[Saru]

NAR clearly puts killing over almost all other actions. IV DID track me, but it didn't go through since he was killed, that's my point.

[Saru]

But how could IV be role-blocked if he was killed? Scum can't use factional and role abilities at the same time. So that must mean that IV's track didn't go through because he died. Am I missing something?

[Saru]

From my previous game with Dier, I went ahead and meta'd him hard because I thought he was scum that game. He seems to be very robotic regardless of his alignment. His lack of posting is a concern, but IV probably had some reason to town read him. I'm not too comfortable with lynching him tbh. He does need to speak up though, too much lurking.

[Saru]

The thing is, I'm willing to put my trust in IV. If he had some reason to townread Dier, then I'm willing to trust that the reason was valid.

In that case, it comes down to Luna and Postie. And, well, Luna has done an amazing job if she's scum because I don't scum read her in the slightest. Her willingness to hard solve the game yesterday is able to be faked, but it came off as genuine to me.

Postie on the other hand was one of my scum reads from D1. I feel like Postie has been playing it somewhat safe. Like her town read of me feels fake af. She hasn't really said why she town reads me(of course now she'll say why). She also tends to over-explain things when someone asks her a question. She did this mostly at the start of D1, at a time when over-explaining isn't really what a townie would do.

Also, she apparently isn't comfortable with an L-1 as of yet, but voted for Dier anyways, because she's apparently 90% sure he's scum. That just feels wrong.
VOTE: Postie
Unless Dier comes in and somehow wrecks my town read of him, I feel more comfortable with a Postie lynch.

[Saru]

Ok. I asked Dwlee about this, and apparently even if you follow someone that died, and they performed an action, that action would still be shown to you. Basically, the killing doesn't prevent the action from taking place. I wanted to be sure about this. This only means one thing then:

IV lied about being willing to track me. He did track someone D1(presumably Dier), OR he chose not to use his track either D1 or D2, which doesn't make much sense. Now, the question is, why lie? The only explanation I can come up with is that he was trying to see if I myself was lying about being a follower and that I would return a result of him performing an investigative action, which he could then catch me in that lie and have me lynched. That's actually pretty smart lmfao.

Either way, tracking Dier doesn't clear him, as Dier points out himself.
UNVOTE:

I'm going to look at Postie and Dier again and see what I can come up with. I'm nervous af about a ML at this point because if we ML here(someone who is not me), that means that there would be 4 people left D4(assuming everyone uses their killing abilities) and I would be one of them. At that point, scum has won cause I'm an automatic lynch. Because I'm not going to lie, I can't really go up against Luna when it comes to showing I'm town. If she's scum, she's played well and probably deserves the win.

[Saru]

I cannot see any way this can fail!

Except I can lmfao.

If there's a ninja in this set-up(this is almost 100% the case with a follower and tracker), what you're suggesting will hand them the victory on a silver platter.

For example:
We lynch Dier today. He's VT.
6 people left.
Art doesn't kill anyone but scum does(let's say random).
5 people left.
I followed Postie(who is the ninja in this example) and got a result of "no action performed."
I call for Luna's lynch which ends up being a ML.
4 people left.
Art doesn't kill anyone but scum kills beeboy.
3 people left.
I'm framed and lynched.
2 people left with 1 being scum is gg.

Automatic wins are rare enough(a game would have to be crazy one-sided for this to be the case) that we can legitimately assume there is a ninja in this game to throw a wrench into our plans.

The only way for this to be a win for town in this scenario is if Art trusted me enough to shoot Postie after the ML on Luna, which is probably not going to happen lol. Or if we lynch Postie after we ML Luna, which also might not happen since I would be being framed. There's no reason for the scum to kill me tonight, or ever, for that matter, as I can easily be used as a framing device.

Unless I messed up horribly somewhere with my calcumalationzz(I'm shit at math, don't judge), I'm pretty sure this is NOT an automatic win for town. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Saru]

The other way to win is if we lynch the right person tomorrow between Postie and Luna. Because, if there's a ninja, I'm essentially a VT at this point. I would get "no action performed" on either person, so my result doesn't mean shit either way.

That means we kind of have to luck/hope/blind(whatever you want to call it) lynch, and I'm guessing that the lynch target would be Postie as almost no one scum reads Luna at the moment. Which makes me paranoid(as I was in my D1 read) of Luna playing pretty good scum and getting away with it. Granted, after a reread of her ISO, there are a couple of things that Luna has done that were somewhat scummy, but I'll save that for later.

MURDER, being the smart guy he is, correctly stated on D1 that a town read on Luna for being so chatty and active is stupid, and I'm stupid for being one of the people guilty of it. It's NAI at best. So if we're going to go with the plan of lynching Dier and he turns out VT, I don't want people to just automatically start wagoning onto Postie the next day. We need to think hard about both players and what they have done so far.

[Saru]

I will say this much: I've seen the NRG review game topics. These people are no joke. They pretty much vet the game front to back, up and down to make sure that things like automatic wins are prevented. Sure, they're humans and can make mistakes, but I'm willing to trust their ability to make a competent game over some "yay happy automatic town win woot" feeling. And this is coming from a guy who thinks half glass full.

The fact that Luna keeps saying "oh I think Saru is scum because he's thinking up possibilities that can actually happen boohoo" is only making me suspect her more. I feel like I've hit the nail on the head with scum's plan, and scum is freaking out. Luna does a shit ton of speculation herself, but as soon as I start speculation, it's all "OH NO SARU SCUM!" Seriously, that kind of reaction from a player like Luna who loves to speculate herself is atypical. The more logical response would have been "hmm Saru I understand where you're coming from, but you're wrong because X Y and Z" instead of what she just said.

[Saru]

Personally, I'm willing to lay it all down on the line. Luna's reaction is not doing it for me. Not what I expected at all.

I suggest we lynch Dierfire today and Luna tomorrow. I WILL check Luna tonight, hands down. If Luna is VT, lynch me the day after and get it over with. I have 0 objections to people voting me if she flips VT.

[Saru]

The amount of scum flailing is real right now. Both Postie and Art clearly see my point. beeboy is also starting to see the scum claim from Luna.
Face it Luna: you fucked up big time via your reaction to my post earlier. You essentially scum slipped. It wasn't even meant to be a reaction test, but I guess it became one lmfao.

Look at this way: even if I'm scum, I cannot possibly win with a Luna or Postie lynch. Either of their mis-lynch would basically be my automatic lynch and then game over for me as scum. Luna should understand this and not be so adamant about not being lynched, because her flip as VT proves I'm scum. She thinks I'm scum, yet doesn't want to prove it? Sure.

Also, I never thought about an X-Shot ninja. That also makes a whole lot of sense.

[Saru]

her flip as VT proves I'm scum

what

Meaning from her POV, if she flips town, I'm scum. So why wouldn't she want to prove that?

[Saru]

Lynching scum is more important than preserving my "never been mislynched as town" anyway.

lol then why even bring it up? Sounds like you're trying to guilt-trip people.
"boohoo guys I've never been ML'd as town, but I'll break that streak for you guys"
k.

[Saru]

lol apparently we have a suicidal Luna who hasn't voted herself yet. >.> <.<

[Saru]

If you want to lynch me you'll have to work for it scum.

I appreciate that you play to your scum win-con till the end. Respect for that. And I mean that.
VOTE: Luna Fox

[Saru]

lol Luna if you turn out town, I deserved to be lynched tomorrow. I will make 0 excuses tomorrow if you flip town. I'll just tell people my result and then shut up and let them lynch me. I'm not even going to fight it. You can quite literally quote me on this.

[Saru]

lol I AM NOT getting away from this. At this point, everyone understands that your flip of town is my lynch tomorrow. End of story.

Can people just give their word that they'll lynch me tomorrow if Luna flips town so she can stop this madness?

[Saru]

lol Luna I love how try-hard you are. ^_^

[Saru]

I've seen scum do what you do and then people proceed to never lynch them because... I don't even know.
So im making 100% sure that you're dying after i flip town if im mislynched today. I already resigned myself to the fact that just because i havent rolled scum ever people arent going to ever be able to see how obvtown i am when im town because they dont know how much of a pathetic nervous lurksack i am when i play as scum, so I had already figured i'd eventually would eat my first mislynch, im resigned to that already, i had hoped to roll scum sometime to prevent this from happening ever.

*cough*scum AtE*cough*
You done?

[Saru]

Actually, if X-shot ninja exists, that means that my follow would still have value, regardless of my lynch. Because if I get a guilty on someone tomorrow, and state it, after my flip, people would know who the scum is.

[Saru]

I can't win cause I'm being lynched tomorrow. Your point is invalid.

[Saru]

LOL

[Saru]

How would you guys feel if I said this fatalism feels really fucking town to me o3o

Then she played you real good. You said it yourself, she knows your weak spot.

[Saru]

But she also has to convince 2 other conf town she is town and idk if fatalism is the best way of doing that.... >_>

That's what she wants you to think though.

[Saru]

But clearly you know that beeboy isn't going to stop being beeboy. Whether you tell him or not, he's going to think fatalism is town. That's the point of knowing him well. Manipulation, HELLO!!

[Saru]

Sure. What's wrong with that?

[Saru]

inb4 "but I would never do that as scum!!"

[Saru]

inb4 "but I would never do that as scum!!"

Yes, i would never do that as scum, because i can't fake anything as scum, or the limits of what i can fake are... pretty small

zzz self-meta doesn't mean anything zzz

Anyways, let me make it clear to people why lynching me today is just straight up bad play, because that might have gotten lost in the whole back and forth in the previous pages. An X-shot Ninja is the likely answer here. Given that, me following someone who is that ninja will most likely result in a guilty. I present that guilty to the town and then I get quickly lynched(because that's what should happen if Luna turns out town, I will even self-vote and others have already proclaimed they will lynch me no matter what). My flip will either be town or scum. If town, the scum is confirmed and vigged/lynched. If I'm scum, congrats, because town wins.

The only thing is if I follow a town player and get a "no action performed" result, I'm still getting lynched no matter what. If I flip town, that person is most likely cleared. If I'm scum, congrats, because town wins.

Lynching me today as opposed to tomorrow is a net loss for town if I'm town. Lynching Luna today as opposed to tomorrow is not a net loss for town, since she's a VT if she is town.

She will try to argue that I'm also a VT now because no X-Shot Ninja exists, but town could just figure that out by lynching me tomorrow. They will never figure that out if they lynch me today. No matter how you slice it, keeping me alive until tomorrow and then speed lynching me will give you more answers to help solve the game as opposed to just straight up lynching me today.

[Saru]

You wont be getting a guilty because you're scum. And then if you get a clear you will just say "Ninja" again so this is pointless.

You're ignoring the fact that pretty much everyone understands that I should be lynched no matter what happens tomorrow if you turn out town. Again, if I'm scum, I don't see why you would have a problem with that.

It doesn't matter what the fuck I say tomorrow. No one will listen to a word out of my mouth and they shouldn't until I flip town. Me saying "ninja" isn't going to stop people from lynching me. Don't believe me? Go ahead and ask them.

[Saru]

You're ignoring the fact that pretty much everyone understands that I should be lynched no matter what happens tomorrow if you turn out town.

Do they? I don't see Postie understanding anything. But then again if you're town she's probably scum. Since she's the only one that wants to survive out of all of us 4.

Great, so if she's scum, she'll be lynched after my mis-lynch. What's the problem again?

And yes, beeboy has said he will lynch me no matter what which means his mason partner will sheep him. And Art has already said he thinks either you or I are scum, so he'll lynch me no matter what tomorrow as well. Only people left to convince is Dier and Postie. Let's wait for them to say so and move on. Simple. ^_^

[Saru]

Great, so if she's scum, she'll be lynched after my mis-lynch. What's the problem again?

I never said there was a problem?
You're the one making a problem here, I've already said im resigned to being lynched on the condition of you being lynched tomorrow after my town flip, so i dont see your point.

Oh ok, cool. I misunderstood.

Yeah, let's just wait at this point to see who people want to lynch today.

[Saru]

Lynching scum is more important than preserving my "never been mislynched as town" anyway.

lol then why even bring it up? Sounds like you're trying to guilt-trip people.
"boohoo guys I've never been ML'd as town, but I'll break that streak for you guys"
k.

I mostly don't want to screw up Luna's streak tbh.

I'm a suckered for these type of things.

lol

Scum has got this. gg. Can't win with a town like this.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Saru]

2) Don't dilute your town PR's with X-shot, Odd/Even-Night modifiers.

If you want to use these modifiers, include a fourth or fifth PR for town.

I see a lot of games with 2-3 scum PR's that seem to be there as a direct counter to town power. Most town PR's aren't successful often enough to justify giving scum something to subvert them.

Again, consider the 1-Shot Modifier for scum if you really want to give them a Ninja/Strongman/Roleblocker.

lol

[Saru]

Uhh... i actually missed that...
Ok nvm i take it back 1-shot ninja might be possible.

Good, at-least you finally admit to that.

Anyways, I don't really think Dier is scum here. So I'm not even going to contribute to it with a vote on Dier. Someone else can just finish him off.

[Saru]

Anyways, I don't really think Dier is scum here.

Why?

Because that's what I think. Luna or you are just more likely to be scum the way both of you have played. Luna more so. /shrug

Let me ask you Postie, what do you think about Luna if it's a three-way between us tomorrow? Is your vote on Dier because you don't suspect her that much anymore or you just can't be bothered to try and just want the game to be over?

[Saru]

Let me ask you Postie, what do you think about Luna if it's a three-way between us tomorrow? Is your vote on Dier because you don't suspect her that much anymore or you just can't be bothered to try and just want the game to be over?

My vote is on Dier because the last scum is either Luna or Dier, and I'm leaning more towards Dier right now because all of his posts have been safe as fuck.

Then what do you think about Luna's posts?

[Saru]

One thing that bothers me about you Postie is that you chose to vote Dier as soon as Art came in and said we shouldn't lynch Luna today and that Dier was the better choice(without a real reason).

You then proceed to say that Dier is playing it safe, yet decide to follow the crowd, playing safe yourself. Should we lynch you then?

[Saru]

I didn't vote Dier because Ari voted Dier.

That's fine. But it's about your thought process. You were sure that Luna scum claimed. You started hitting her hard and then fell off the map. When Art comes in and says that Dier is the safe lynch, you never gave your infamous "Why?" like you normally do. Instead, you chose to just straight up vote him while saying that Luna scum claimed. Something's off, no?

[Saru]

Ok, I can see exaggeration. I tend to do the same when I feel I've caught scum, which usually lands me in trouble.

[Saru]

lol Dier why are you ruining my town read on you. Sad times lmfao.

[Saru]

Given a choice between Luna Fox and Postie, I think that I'd recommend lynching Postie, but I'll finish reading to make sure.

When you say this, are you referring to right now or later?

Also, if you doubt that there can't be this many PRs in the game, go read what I quoted on the last page, from Hoopla. Hoopla quite literally states what the set-up of our game most likely is, and he says that it's fine from a balance perspective.

[Saru]

Ok, you can have your town read back now. I misunderstood about the timing of your lynch suggestion.

Anyways, finish up reading and report back soon yo.

[Saru]

Posting to avoid prod.

[Saru]

lol all that wait just for that. Yes, I should be lynched tomorrow no matter what, I agree, and so do others.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dierfire

[Saru]

Neither am I.

[Saru]

Good job guys. That last post where Dier voted me before his lynch literally gave away his scum position to me, hence my vote of him. I didn't want to say it outright, but that post was bad in so many ways that I couldn't possibly see town!Dier doing it. I mostly town read Dier up until that point just because I was scum reading others that would have made Dier town via PoE, otherwise Dier hadn't done anything that was really all that townie in the first place.

As for Luna, I just hated your reaction to my setup spec. I wasn't expecting it. I was expecting you to be more understanding about it(such as telling me where I was off and explaining diligently and all that) if you were town instead of "SARU SCUM OMG" which just felt really over the top. I'm terrible at setup spec(which I stated previously) and so when I saw that reaction, I felt good about myself that I had hit the nail on the head. Plus, your insistence that you shouldn't be lynched because you didn't want to lose a streak of not being ML'ed as town was just straight up annoying me. No joke. I hate reasoning like that, no matter who's saying it. More of a personal thing though. Lastly, I was doing some re-reading and when I saw MURDER grilling you D1 for jumping off the 611 wagon, I guess I started to conf-bias a little. Seriously, if we lynched you and you turned out scum, I would be singing high praises for MURDER lmfao.

I've just finished a game with Saru. Place votes on him with extreme caution. Even without a vote, he tends to have extreme/exaggerated reactions to other players expressing suspicion of him. Fortunately, this also means that he can get distracted and fight other Town players. Even better, he tends to go after said players with long walls of text, which could help create clutter in the thread. Two cautionary notes: I've only played the one game with Saru, and he seemed like the kind of player to learn from his mistakes, so this might become less rather than more true over time; additionally, his reads are not bad when he's not engaging in OMGUS thinking.

This is a pretty good read of me, however, you're right, I learn from my mistakes and I do change up a lot from game to game. That's mainly why when I had a wagon on me near the start of the game, I chose not to wall and lose it and play it calm, which I guess helped. But 611 also chose to do the same, but I guess his replacing out might have looked bad? It did for me, and that's why I hammered. This is also why I chose not to wall on Luna to try to get her lynched, and instead attacking her post for post. Plus, walls just take too much time for my own sanity.

Also Dier, can I just say that reading your inner thoughts in the mafia PT after your mafia partners died was so much fun lol. I love stuff like that.

Lastly, thanks Dwlee for modding! You're very prompt with answering questions and whatnot, so I appreciate that!