Mini 1895: Shaziro Mafia - GAME OVER

[Superhans]

Heya everybody.

[Superhans]

VOTE: horrordude
Welcome back?

Fitz my main man!

[Superhans]

I have no issues with LaL, but it has to be an actual lie and not a joke. That was clearly a joke imo

+1

[Superhans]

i dont like the way CoolDogs playing, but it certainly isnt scum motivated. The logic sucks.


@BoonSkies i didnt understand what this means:

VOTE: Boonskiies buddying the lynch victim

confirmed scum voting the confirmed townies.

VOTE: ConManMick

[Superhans]

I have no issues with LaL, but it has to be an actual lie and not a joke. That was clearly a joke imo

I don't have a sense of humor.

Yet you have made posts in games you later said was a joke...

Woosh.

[Superhans]

The claim appeared to be pretty obviously false imo... mainly because, as you pointed out, the concept of actually claiming lovers on Page 3 would be terribad. You don't need to run the math there.

Completely lost.
What is this referring to?

[Superhans]

IAlwaysWinSometimes(3)- implosion, DeathRowKitty, horrordude0215

Is this RVS or serious? From what I've read so far it is a joky wag wag.

[Superhans]

what is meant by dome claimb? that they deliberately pretended to be dumb? To get town read?

[Superhans]

" the page 3 fucking dumb claim. Awesome dude. Now with the hypothetical doc we have 1/2 chance of two deaths (assuming they kill one of you) as opposed to the 1/6 chance of two deaths + the 9/12 chance of one. Someone good at game theory do this calculation for me, I'm bad at math. But my gut says this was wrong, particularlly asuming that the scum could wisely choose to not kill one of you and thus secure a free kill. And if you just fake claimed, I will murder you with fire. LAL ftw.

So we know at least one of the roles now: VI goes to eddie this game. "

I don't really understand this. i dont think its probably a reason i should be voting Eddie.

[Superhans]

VOTE: TwoFace

I dont like those snappy one liners. really abbrassive tone that isnt that helpful.

[Superhans]

[...]
@BoonSkies i didnt understand what this means:

VOTE: Boonskiies buddying the lynch victim

confirmed scum voting the confirmed townies.

VOTE: ConManMick

Boon answer plzz

[Superhans]

Were you intending to take me up on the offer (is that what the "speak of the devil!" meant??) or were you just changing votes?

Either way, I'm a frog of my word so

Unvote: IAlwaysWinSometimes

Vote: CooLDoG

fite me

So you're blindly following a player because they're not on the Con wagon, placing your vote on an equally weak wagon.

VOTE: DeathRowKittyCat

I don't mind that you're on a weak wagon (it's RVS so it's NAI), but i do feel uneasy that you think you can place a vote without committing any of your own perspective.

Hope that makes sense.

[Superhans]

well my vote stays on cooldog (instead of cmm) regardless of if you sheep but yes

Good reaction from Eddie i think.

[Superhans]

oh man that cmm wagon is pretty slick

Unvote

VOTE: CMM

If this wasn't RVS this would be such a shockingly poor reason to join a wagon.

Still don't like it.

@Implosion is this vote serious?

[Superhans]

no clue, read lists are stupid and should never be done

I like read lists

I can see why an entirely town read list is obsolete, but one which incorporates different levels of scum/leans/nulls is OK.

Also i think Implosion is just trying to be helpful, bit going about it the wrong way.

[Superhans]

Well that depends on what you mean by serious.
If by serious you mean that it's a vote with intent to lynch, then no. If by serious you mean a vote with intent to display that he's the person I currently find scummiest, then no. If by serious you mean a non-arbitrary vote with purpose behind it, then yes.

Incidentally, Superhans, you didn't answer my query in 95 - care to? Just to make it explicit, why did you feel the need to question the seriousness of a wagon that was clearly not serious (given that the person being voted literally hadn't posted)?

Obviously not clear if the wagon was serious otherwise i wouldn't have had to ask the question.

I thought it was a bs wagon, and i wanted you to tell me that.

[Superhans]

@Implosion ur vote on ConMan was super poor. Even poorer to take it back by saying you now scum read him.

If you don't want him lynched, why vote? You're not being transparent.

[Superhans]

@Implosion ur vote on ConMan was super poor. Even poorer to take it back by saying you now dont scum read him.

If you don't want him lynched, why vote? You're not being transparent.

Ebwop

[Superhans]

@Implosion ur vote on ConMan was super poor. Even poorer to take it back by saying you now scum read him.

If you don't want him lynched, why vote? You're not being transparent.

I thought it was implicit in my not thinking he was scum. Early wagons are often a matter of seeing what happens with them/how the person being wagoned reacts/how others react to generate information. The second of these obviously flubbed because cmm hasn't been here and now there are no real wagons.
[...]

I may be wrong, but you haven't actually explained why you have your vote on CMN.

Explain simply this:

oh man that cmm wagon is pretty slick

Unvote

VOTE: CMM

[Superhans]

The wagon was composed of 3/4 of the people I'd just called town.

This is so terrible that i cant actually believe it could come from town.

Jesus. You can't just sheep your town reads. Either unvote or provide your own perspective.

[Superhans]

*i meant from scum.

[Superhans]

@Fitz, Yup.

Implosion has shamelessly admitted to blindly following a wagon, not because he thinks it necessarily contains scum, but because he liked the players on the wagon.
It would also not be difficult for even a slightly self-aware scum to say that the vote was a pressure vote on a lurker. Therefore, I think Implosion is probably being honest, and he genuinely just sheeped town players as town.

What do you think Fitz?

[Superhans]

Early game wagons often RVS, so its important to move away from them as soon as possible.

The difference in you and Implosion, is that your cases are different, and I've read them differently. I haven't given Implosion a free pass, I just read him differently to you, because your cases aren't the same. Sorry man, I think you're scum, don't think Implosion is.

However neither of your reads are confident reads.

[Superhans]

there is a significant difference in your play and Implosions play, and it is within that difference that i draw different reads.

stop trying to get me to town read you, its not gonna work.

[Superhans]

VOTE: Desully Woke

Listen you devious fuck, you and implosion played completely differently.

Implosion straight up said he was sheeping, you were far less transparent.

[Superhans]

Lol.did notean to quote u darklyn

[Superhans]

but you declared a scumread on me for one action and a townread on implosion for one action

Different shit ya mong

[Superhans]

You're kidding, right?

No

[Superhans]

/pagetop

Did you uhhh....actually read what it is I did that you're voting me for or....?

The entitlement.

Lol can you not handle me town reading the lymchbait candidate?

Scum fuck.

[Superhans]

Dude my explanation is in my vote.
You haven't made me change anything.

[Superhans]

Mmkay.

I'll tell you what; I'll follow the first person to leave the CMM wagon onto whatever wagon they want, as long as it isn't on me.

speak of the devil!

VOTE: cooldog

Is this you taking me up on my offer?

Were you intending to take me up on the offer (is that what the "speak of the devil!" meant??) or were you just changing votes?

Either way, I'm a frog of my word so

Unvote: IAlwaysWinSometimes

Vote: CooLDoG

fite me

What was I not transparent about here?

That Ur insincere about your wagon.

[Superhans]

You're voting a wagon without genuineness supporting it.

[Superhans]

*genuinely

[Superhans]

You're voting a wagon without genuineness supporting it.

Or at least making it clear whether you genuinely support it.

I don't think you do.

[Superhans]

I'd argue that I was significantly less transparent; i said I was sheeping when I was asked about it, DRK said she was sheeping before she even made her vote.

Exactly why I didn't like her vote, and i'm okay with yours.

@ Fitz very perceptive... i do always play better when mildly shitfaced as i'm sure you're aware

Eddie, what does the fact you're lonely on your wagon tell you?

[Superhans]

i don't think it's worth really arguing this further unless i get a stronger townread on cooldog and he's under more pressure. I simply disagree that it's likely scum-motivated. It's certainly possible; I think it's extremely unlikely.

Sorry what?

A scum case that make
Es it extremely unlikely v
coolDog is town, i would like to hear it please.

[Superhans]

VOTE: user [/vote)

I just wanted to know, I didn't plan on voting yet. I don't feel comfortable voting right now because everything right now feels so subjective, like everyone's going off their gut and finding flimsy 'evidence' to support it. My gut is leaning toward cooldog but I honestly have no clue.

This.

Completely agree, Pepe acting like we're all set on lynching CoolDog, but on what?

My case or.DRK is flimsy not.going to lie.
UNVOTE:
And i take back my town read on Implosion.

[Superhans]

you started attacking him "softing masons", which again, was an obvious joke. I returned with another joke. There's no town or scum motivation to claiming lovers page 3, there is however scum motivation in attacking it as I've explained.

Agree

cool, whatever, lynch me.

This is bad play. Not.AI, just bad play.
CoolDog u r not gonna get lynched anytime soon.

The game has been rely dead recently, and apathy is the mother of Defeat.

@whemeatar why Desully?

[Superhans]

Implosions last posts all scream LAMIST.

[Superhans]

Implosions last posts all scream LAMIST.

do you find this scummy?

Yes.

[Superhans]

What do you think?

[Superhans]

Rly.
I think LAMIST can be pretty good with players who are noob. (Not excluding myself).

[Superhans]

Why not?

why?

[Superhans]

Why not?

why?

Stahpppp

Read his ISO or something

good point. you can fit Desullys ISO on the back of a teaspoon.

[Superhans]

can someone explain the wagon on CoolDog in plain english? like a TLDR, because i havent.

[Superhans]

you started attacking him "softing masons", which again, was an obvious joke. I returned with another joke. There's no town or scum motivation to claiming lovers page 3, there is however scum motivation in attacking it as I've explained.

Agree

cool, whatever, lynch me.

This is bad play. Not.AI, just bad play.
CoolDog u r not gonna get lynched anytime soon.

The game has been rely dead recently, and apathy is the mother of Defeat.

@whemeatar why Desully?

I sure as hell hope he does.

TwoFace, how confident would you say you are that CoolDog is going to flip scum?

[Superhans]

good point. you can fit Desullys ISO on the back of a teaspoon

That's NAI.

yes but a vote on a player is apathetic is a good vote imho.

[Superhans]

Fitz you're voting CoolDog... why didn't you answer my question on it?

[Superhans]

VOTE: WhemeStar

[Superhans]

Nah CD is scum. The wagon is good. If you're town you should be on it.

Whyyyy?

[Superhans]

The CoolFog wagon is being pushed by a players who are using rhetoric rather than logic or keeping an open mind.

CoolDog may be scum, but i think the way his case is being pushed is not coming across as town at all.

Pedit ah will do

[Superhans]

Ah the bolded bit is pretty bad, I'd admit that.

Although iv just played a game when town also said that so i don't think it is necessarily AI.

[Superhans]

@CoolDog
Do you think your wagon is mainly misguided towny or deliberately a scum push?

Pedit what am i looking at?

[Superhans]

I agree with him on the CMN wagon.

[Superhans]

Give me the elevator pitch, I'd take like 5 seconds.

[Superhans]

Whemestar where do you stand on cooldog?

[Superhans]

also i'd like to hear why you think fitz is scum.

i think i'd know best out of everyone as me and Fitz played scum in an open Nightless game with daychat.

[Superhans]

@Fitz

Talk to me baby.

Felt like there has been a lowkey disconnect between us.

[Superhans]

Well if we are being nitpicky, I am pretty sure a couple of people have made votes without any meaningful justifications. if you find that suspicious, why not single those people out as well? Superhans for example is one person who voted without any meaningful justification, he provided absolutely no justification whatsoever.


The part about rearing his head only when voted is an outright lie. Horror voted him FOR the posts he had just made. You made your vote 10 minutes AFTER he had just posted.

so yeah, you see why you look like scum?

1st reason is non AI
2nd reason is also non AI and you ignore others who do the same thing which isn't townie
3rd reason is an outright lie

so sorry you can't have my reads certificate, because you clearly aren't reading properly and if you are, you are intentionally posting things that aren't true

Is this for me? i dont understand what the fuck you're saying.

[Superhans]

whats the dog on? Lynch Wise?

[Superhans]

TwoFace you're being inarticulate af. Its not my fault that i cant follow what your arguments are, and fyi im absolutely town reading you for your unwillingness to help me follow the game.

[Superhans]

*scum reading you

[Superhans]

@Hans...did I need to give you special attention?

We need to communicate. I know your scum meta, and I would feel more confident if we could talk.

The question i asked you was basically why are you voting CoolDog. dont think i need it answered as lots of players have chipped in.

im kinda unsure about CoolDog. I like Desully's case on him a lot, and I think Occams Razor would just be that Desully is correct. However, there are numerous players who have been acting like the wagon is an inevitablity since early game which is really putting me off.

[Superhans]

*scum reading you.

Vote is on WhemeStar because i dont think a player should be able to get away with playing the way he is.

His entrance was terrible. Vote on Desully as a pressure vote made sense, but im not fond of anything hes posted so far.

[Superhans]

Not at first. I've been told that I deliberately play town to make my scum game better. Which I do win the majority of my scum games, and late game I nail scum as town, if not become the closest one to doing it. Which is why the TSO quote is in my sig. I do deiberately play badly in a lot of my town games, but I still always play to win. I like seeing and reading people's reactions based directly towards me, as i read much better if I interact with people. Before I left site, people brought up that I purposefully play the village idiot when I'm not, and in my scum games, you can usually see that. Which is a big reason I tend not to get lynched very often, even though I'm usually prime mislynch bait. It does help me find scum, and it keeps me from getting night killed. I do tend to be night killed more often with players who are familiar with me rather than those who are just basing it off the game.

Ohhh shit you're doing what i always try to do when scum. Be super transparent when talking about my mafia.
It actually worked a little bit until i was lynched D1, lol.
Anyway I'm not.accusing u of being scum, just please don't expect me to read this as you being open like a book because there definitely is a scum motivation to making posts like these.

[Superhans]

CoolDog you have been flailing.all day like a little bitch
Right?

[Superhans]

Wheme is a player who naturally obscures his opinions and it's very easy to push a case on him; there's no need for scum-cooldog to go out of his way like this.

Nooooo I'm not putting up with shit like this.

Implosion have u ever played with Whenever.before?

[Superhans]

Wow, not a leading question at all!

It's not a leading question. Cooldog has done this multiple times (at least twice). You think I'm scummy for pushing it so yes your opinion is very important not only for this game but for games going forward. If you end up being town, I know to basically never play with you again cause you're one of the people who's enabling terrible play on this site. I can just basically ignore you now as you are either scum with CD or town with a mindset I can't ever agree with and as such, can't trust to do the right thing

^Discrediting everyone who disagrees with you. You're enabling terrible play on this site.

i agree that CoolDog has lied, and acted in a non-towny fashion, but to act like he is confirmed scum is not town play either.

[Superhans]

the current argument on me is not that I lied and thus lynch me, it is that my "lies" are scum motivated.

Did you "lie"?

[Superhans]

horror is basically advocating a pl which I'd adamantly disagree with but due to the recent MOMOMAN epidemic I'd pass it as nai and playstyle differences. the problem is in 290 he contradicts his 286 to a degree - wheme isn't even bad enough to warrant a policy lynch

I cant speak for Horror, so correct me if im wrong, but Whemes low substance troll play is to make up for the fact he is scum and cant genuinely town hunt.

pedit:
whats ur role Whemestar?

[Superhans]

super is similar. not completely awful comments, but very few comments all around and it's half policy lynch.

im not 100% sure of either CoolDog or Whemestar since its D1. its not policy lynch, more the fact that CoolDog seems like a lynchbait.

[Superhans]

that being said WhemeStars wagon has grown very quickly which is unlikely considering his case, as Eddie points out, isnt that comprehensive, and scum never get lynched D1...

UNVOTE:

[Superhans]

VOTE: CoolDog

fuck it, sorry Horror :\

[Superhans]

wtf is a fruit vendor?

[Superhans]

cos he got it in his role pm?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Visitor

or to save himself idk.

[Superhans]

@Whemestar can you describe specifically what ur Role PM says.

[Superhans]

I don't see scum ever getting my
Role in a normal game

in the wiki it says it can be either alignment tbh.

although i agree that it would be an odd one to give to scum.

pedit:
ur such a mong TwoFace, describe is synonymous with paraphrase.

[Superhans]

But to answer your question wheme. People who think you are scum aren't going to believe your role until it can be confirmed. Assuming it gets confirmed.

It can get confirmed if someone in town has a tracker role/ watchman role.

[Superhans]

I can give fruit to someone at night

anddd... what is the implication of this role?

[Superhans]

A Visitor (also known as False Positive) is a player who has an action that does not do anything. The player can target another player at Night, and will be seen by any Trackers or Watchers, but the action itself has no in-game effect.

It's basically a slightly more powerful Vanilla, as it can be proven as long as there's a Tracker or Watcher.

Variations
By the nature of the role, it can be used with the Weak modifier to turn it into an investigative role.

Alternatively, players can be Hidden Visitors when they are told they have an action, but are not aware that their action has no actual effect. An example is a Masonizer with no actual viable target in the game.

The Fruit Vendor role is a variation in which the target is aware of the action performed on them, but not who performed it. Often, the action is explicitly designed to be impossible to perform at the same time as any other Night action, thus allowing a player to prove that they're doing nothing consequential overnight; this is commonly used in Split Motive/Role setups.

[Superhans]

cant see scum claiming something like this if they are a goon scum. i dont see why a scum fruit seller wouldnt claim it tho.

[Superhans]

or scum roleblocker/ scum tracker

[Superhans]

horror is basically advocating a pl which I'd adamantly disagree with but due to the recent MOMOMAN epidemic I'd pass it as nai and playstyle differences. the problem is in 290 he contradicts his 286 to a degree - wheme isn't even bad enough to warrant a policy lynch

I cant speak for Horror, so correct me if im wrong, but Whemes low substance troll play is to make up for the fact he is scum and cant genuinely town hunt.

pedit:
whats ur role Whemestar?

and now back on topic; why the fuck did you ask for a claim here

because he said he had a role.

[Superhans]

if he targets you you get a mod message along the line of "you received a fruit"

why does it say in the wiki that Fruit Vendors can be veriefied by Trackers if players recieve fruit?

[Superhans]

[quote="In post 469, Eddie Cane"][/quote]
lol you were criticising the Wheme wagon all day, and when i flip to CoolDog now you scum read me?

whats your logic behidn that?

[Superhans]

If anyone thinks wheme is scum after the way he claimed that then they are giving him way too much credit (no offense). No way he fakes that with the amount of experience he has.

inclined to agree with you on this one.

[Superhans]

1. because he says he has a role isn't a good answer to that question.

2. it doesn't need to say it in the wiki, it's common sense. tracker can track a player of their choosing, so if there was a tracker and he tracked the fruit vendor, he would be able to see who that person visited.

do you really have no idea how trackers work?

Wiki doesnt say anything about players knowing they've been given fruit :\

it is only way to verify if they are a fruit vendor no?

[Superhans]

i mean its not my role pm.

@Wheme care to explain it to me.

[Superhans]

i'd also be happy to vote outside of the CoolDog wagon.

[Superhans]

although im not going to join the IAlwaysWinSometimes or TwoFace wagon.

[Superhans]

im online Boon.

[Superhans]

cant see scum claiming something like this if they are a goon scum. i dont see why a scum fruit seller wouldnt claim it tho.

I don't like this.

I'm no longer fence sitting, i think it comes from town Wheme.

[Superhans]

Also, the fact he chose to then vote with Two Face and Eddie, both of you have a tendency to stick onto your targets, I understand the Cooldog, so nothing against that. Super would easily be able to gain rep from 2F and EC, even if CD is scum with Super. I wouldn't be surprised if Super changed off later if something else picks up.

i don't understand this.

pedit: do you not buy the fruit vendor claim?

[Superhans]

because i wasnt convinced on the claim at first, but fruit vendor is literally the worst role for scum to try and claim, unless he actually is scum fruitseller, but i think the nature of that role makes it unlikely.

[Superhans]

Boon whats ur read on CoolDog?

[Superhans]

I agree with boon that 448 from superhans is quite sketchy. I honestly think the way wheme claimed is really really obviously town and that post looks like it's trying to obfuscate the claim and make it so less information is gleaned from it. Essentially I'm put off by his initial reaction to focus entirely on the literal role that was claimed without paying any heed whatsoever to the way in which it was claimed.

Implosion we're on the same page with Wheme. I was fence sitting but it was because i was uncertain, not because i was trying to muddy the waters.

[Superhans]

VLA for the next week

[Superhans]

VLA for the next week

[Superhans]

havent set off yet, VLA for next 7 days @DRK
when i said next week i meant this week.

[Superhans]

Can someone fill me in?

[Superhans]

Mod Replace Me out

[Superhans]

Sorry guys, but I'm not feeling.this one :/