Mini 52 - Gamersville (IT IS FINISHED)

[Tigris]

Wow, quick start. It's late here, 2 a.m.ish, so my mind is not altogether with it. *shrug* Sorry this is fluff , but I am here and will try to post something more substantial tomorrow. 'Sides have to think about the CD/PBug thing a bit before responding to it, too many possibilities for it.

[Tigris]

(clips half post after previewing) What Electra said

Of course, my main concern has already been voiced by CD that he was a mafia trying to get a free lynch and since he would die tonight anyhow, no big loss to the mafia. I'm still curious about 2 cops in a mini, but *shrug* its not impossible.

Electra: *blink* So you have to continue to vote for the person, or is voting for them once per day sufficient?

[Tigris]

No it isn't fool-proof. Few problems with it actually.
As Electra points out, there is no guarantee that we find out his sanity (or lack thereof) when he dies.
Additionally, I would alter 'if CD dies, I am insane/paranoid' to 'if CD dies and his role is pro-town, then . . .' simply because there could be two killing groups, sometimes holding off on kills can be a wise/required move.

Anyhows, this discussion is basically moot until tomorrow when we have more info (imo). I won't lynch either PB or CD today as it can sit on the back-burner for now.

. . . *grumble* Actually, something just popped into my head, so I have to ask PBug a question. Do you receive only alignment or role-description as well?

[Tigris]

Re: PBug's PS I did , which might be an issue because I don't forget things very often. For example, I could tell you virtually everything about mini 33 I believe (players, roles, who got killed when, lynches, investigations, protections, etc.) and it isn't in the archives and I don't keep records of any mafia game.

While the info wasn't that huge, it was still enough for me to bring it to discer and sugar's attention that I saw it.

Now then, since PBug didn't answer my question *shrug*, I can only assume he gets guilty/innocent. Which means that I can't try and prove his copishness tonight by asking him to investigate me (I doubt any mafia would be able to guess my role).

It also brings up the other thought I had, let's say for a moment that he is a sibling (not really contentious at this point), would a doctor protection save his life? I say yes, now then hypothetically, lets say I'm mafia and I find out that I'm going to commit suicide the next night. So I have to manufacture a reason as to why I should be protected, so that I can save my life and since the sibling thing is lying here in my lap . . . See where I'm going? Not to be mean, but I doubt a new player would be able to engineer that, but at the same time any experienced player setting up the variety of roles he has claimed (not to mention claiming cop in his first post in this game ) would be sure to be lynched.

So basically, I guess docs need to be careful tonight, he might be a cop or he might be a mafia trying to save himself. I'm fairly willing to chalk it up to newbieishness, but I can't discount that lingering suspicion in my head.

Oh and if there is a random cop in this game, I think we all made a huge mistake, cause a random cop is a horrible idea, imo.

[Tigris]

4 of 6, so if anyone puts on five they will get my vote (5 makes it too easy for mafia to put the nail in the coffin should he be innocent). Although, looking at CRiX's posts, he didn't post between (board time) Sunday and Thursday, and Sunday was only one post, so it doesn't appear that he was lurking, just busy.

Norinel: Yeah, it's iffy, but I doubt it has ever come up, would be interesting to see though *shrug*

Talitha: Actually, it was I who suggested any doctor think before protecting PBug, not Norinel. If a suicide can't be stopped by a doc (as Norinel suggests), then there is no/little danger of a mafia sibling being saved by a doctor protection.

[Tigris]

puts on five before CRiX is given a chance to talk that is, sorry

[Tigris]

Obviously Tigris don't want a member of the mafia to come along and pretend to "accidentally" put the last lynching vote in. He would not last the next day if it turns out that CRiX is innocent, but anyway, we do not want that to happen.

Well, that plus a game I saw a while back, I can't find it now, but it proves that towns don't always lynch someone who quick-lynchs (i.e. puts on the final vote before the accused gets to respond), as the person did it on the first two days. I seen it often enough to try and make people aware of it, so that if someone does quick-lynch, we will be sure to put pressure on them tomorrow. (The real kicker was the person was pro-town and fairly important to the game, he was lynched the next day and the mafia won that night.)

[Tigris]

Uhm, leaving for the weekend, at least 32 hours without internet access, so hope you all have fun. ^_^

[Tigris]

backish, tired though, so no words of wisdom (do I ever have words of wisdom? Nope don't think so).
*raises hand, is one of those that thinks Kerplunk is scum*
I'm not voting to lynch CD, CRiX, or Kerplunk. Kerplunk=likely mafia trying to get a free lynch before he dies, CD=likely just a target for scum, does not however rule out that he is scum, would be a nice way to deflect attention later in the game (yes I am paranoid, but it helps with certain games), CRiX=claimed back-up-cop, enough for me, for now, if he survives and produces faulty results, then I will vote for him on a future day.

Okay, so I just re-read the thread to see if I could pick up on anything at all. The most notable thing I saw was the complete and utter lack of explanation or questions about foses. Especially as it is only fully named twice in the new forums (so reading this forum would be unlikely to give you the answer of what it is), I find that a bit strange, especially as that was my first question when I arrived here.

[Tigris]

Hmmm, color me wrong about PBug/Kerplunk, my apologies.

I don't really buy CD's claim, but I would like to be careful with things. Especially since we have 2 cops and a back-up ( ), I would imagine that sanity is an issue (although it would probably make more sense for the back-up/primary to have issues, imo, so does not necessarily apply to Kerplunk). So, if Kerplunk received prove of his lack of paranoia, I will follow him on the CD=guilty.
For now,

fos: CD

[Tigris]

Hmmm, so basically Kerplunk is a sibling (there is no real debate anymore from what I have seen/read/felt), additionally unless there was a major reconstruction on it, he would have died last night if he was the mafia part (major reconstruction=sibling of the back-up).

Here's my two cents on the sanity issue (canadian, so worth less and I can't get rid of them, so you are more then welcome to them).
Sibling of mafia=possibly paranoid, sees everyone as being associated with his brother.
Back-up=rookie, possibly naive
So basically, I'm not sure if I trust anyone's results right now, but at this point I am willing to gamble a (useless, because there is no chance a mafia would vote for you after revealing your role) vigilante to test Kerplunk's sanity (especially as there are few enough leads right now).

vote: CD

Oh and Kerplunk, even if he turns out to be mafia (which I sincerely hope he does), please investigate someone you think to be innocent. This is just because PBug might have gotten lucky with finding a mafia the first night, so you could still be paranoid, even if he is guilty.

[Tigris]

Norinel, I honestly hadn't thought about that. I sincerely wish that Kerplunk had investigated me last night, that way I would know if he was normal or paranoid (depending on his results). That is the other possible way to tell if he is sane, i.e. have him investigate the person he finds most innocent/least guilty. Problem with that though is if he dies tonight, the town cannot know. Still, I doubt CD's role claim, so my vote stands unless I hear a reason to change it.

Thanks for not putting the next to last though, people tend to put it on too easily for my liking (and if there isn't at least some discussion before someone else puts that vote on, I will unvote).

[Tigris]

Actually,

unvote: CD

, I would like to hear from Stewie at this point before I do anything else.

[Tigris]

Fine, guess I will push things a bit. I despise voting for claims, but since the cop, doc, and nurse, are dead, we have claims from two alive cops and a vigilante, I doubt there are too many important roles left to uncover, so Stewie unless you claim a role, I will vote for you. Oh and I suggest that everyone vote and unvote for CD, this way if he is lying, it is easily proven tonight as we can tell him to kill someone (whom we should not name otherwise the mafia might target the same person) and the method of death will be different then a mafia killing.

Also, could I request a mod prod for doct3rd, he hasn't posted anywhere since August 24th and lynching lurkers/players who leave the game rarely helps the town.

[Tigris]

Ditto some of what Kerplunk said. Nice selective reading as well. While you're at it Shady, vote and unvote for CD, so that he can kill you if he thinks you are mafia, thanks.

*shrug* I still don't consider shadyforce to be confirmed innocent, as mafia can rant just as easily as town, but whatevs, I didn't find doct3rd suspicious and I don't particularly find shady suspicious. Oh, one thing people might want to keep in mind before pronouncing judgement on things, laying all your cards on the table (thoughts, suspicions, etc.) is a bad idea, so I never do that.

That being said here are a few things to chew on. A townie? Right, personally I doubt that there are townies in this game, there has been no evidence to suggest anything except named roles (including my own, which is taken from the list of roles).

Why vote for CD to prove sanity/insanity? He has a potentially useful role, whereas if Stewie is a townie, he does not, would it not make more sense to vote for Stewie and let CD prove/disprove himself tonight?

Still making the jump, if z investigates x and y and gets guilty and y turns out guilty, then x is guilty. However, this does not apply to paranoid cops.

Anyhows,

vote: Kerplunk

, if your sanity is revealed it gives us a nice little advantage and no matter what a mafia will die from lynching you. Personally, I find Stewie suspicious and re-reading, it seems Norinel's style has changed slightly from a game I played with him in the past (he was a nosy neighbor in that one).

[Tigris]

My apologizes for the cut, but . . .

Tigris now agrees that there is likely to be few townies and many power roles.

I see 3 (dead) roles so far and 4 additional claimed (CD, Kerplunk, CRiX, and Electra) roles and then adding my own, that makes 8. Mafia are less likely to claim a role then townie, simply because there is the possibility of being forced to prove it, imo. This plus the idea that we have run accross 1 townie (Stewie) in 8-9 people makes me doubt there are any townies in this game. I'm not saying the roles are powerful, per se, i.e. Electra's role may be a variation of priest/actor and thus actually less powerful then a townie.

As to CD killing tonight, I am going to insist on it. The differing style of death in his victim should prove that he is or is not with the mafia, thus aiding in proving/disproving his role, which goes towards Kerplunk's sanity, but does not necessarily completely reveal it.

Norinel-To be honest it is a question of timing really. If CD kills Kerplunk tonight, the brother dies the next night, if we lynch him, the brother dies tonight and we receive information from how that brother acted. Unfortunately, I honestly do think that Kerplunk is a cop sibling (possibly paranoid), but trading two for one and one (lynch+night kill for night suicide and CD's hit, whose aim will possibly be aided by discovering if Kerplunk is a cop) with the town getting information is something I am willing to do at this point. And ah, I had thought about that (the differing roles), but also thought it might disrupt you a bit to throw that out, thanks. ^_^

Oh and may as well throw this out
unclaimed
myself
Shady
Norinel
Yanqush
*shrug*, need to go do homework now

[Tigris]

unvote: Kerplunk

, only until everyone votes and unvotes for CD

Anyway, i dont agree with lynching someone by CD, since it is kinda dumb, because there is no chance a mafia will let themselves be the "target" that we suggest

Who said they had a choice? Anyone not voting and unvoting for CD today will get my vote tomorrow, simple as that. Beyond that, I leave it up to CD to pick his choice, for reasons I stated earlier.

Have yet to vote for CD, (Electra and CD do not need to, imo )
Yanqush and blackhawk.

[Tigris]

Agreed,

vote: Kerplunk

[Tigris]

We don't necessarily lose if we lynch incorrectly.
For example, let's say we lynch wrong and the mafia kills anyone except for the politician. The politician then buys the vote of one of the two mafia members and voila, town can lynch a mafia. ^_^ However, that is a long-shot for the town to win, so I would prefer to play it safe.

Also, a question. Electra sounds like the fool role and she started it long before it was revealed how many roles are in the game, so near-confirmed innocent to me. Whoever the politician is, is confirmed innocent as well, that leaves 4 people (btw, perhaps buy Electra's vote tomorrow if we lynch correctly? just a thought) and likely two mafia, so at least 50/50. So, what do people think, is a mass role-claim in order? I have little problem with revealing my role, but am just curious what others think. (I am also 75%+ sure I know who the politician is, so likely the mafia has a fair idea as well, so the first paragraph probably won't apply to this game =/

I definitely have more then a few more thoughts, but would be interested in hearing what others think.

[Tigris]

So there are only two types of recruiters (usually and this game seems to be following the set parameters fairly closely). Cult and traitor. Problem being neither gives a townie a choice of joining.

Also, I half-way believe that Stewie would have shown up as innocent if investigated by a sane cop, because I half-way think Stewie is a traitor.

Other problem being if Electra is the fool role and I am [role deleted by Tigris ] and [name deleted by Tigris] is the politician, then that means that there is only one innocent amongst the other three, which makes a cult highly unlikely (especially since if a cult asks a mafia to join, they die and since Stewie is not the most innocent seeming person in this game (I may be bias in this estimation), why risk it?

I'm going to hold off on voting until I get a chance to re-read the thread, but Stewie seems a much better choice then Yanqush right now, oh and no lynch is NOT an option today.

Here's why, if there are 5 left with 2 mafia (result of a no lynch today) normally the town would have a chance to lynch a mafia, unless they have a fool, which gives them a 50% of being unable to lynch a mafia, which is the same percentage on the last day as well, so a 75% chance that even if the town chooses correctly, they will still lose. So no lynch is not an option today.

[Tigris]

Because it amuses me (which is why I put the winking icon). This is a game, so I try to have as much fun with it as I can. Good enough reason? If not, oh well . *shrug* It's also why although I think Norinel has a good chance of being mafia, I'm glad he is in the game, I like having him in the same game with me even if he is probably going to try to kill me at some point, he makes the game more enjoyable for me ('sides I killed him in Fairy Tale mini-mafia, so one good killing deserves another )

The fool and politician roles hurt the town more then help it. 3 cops with 3 differing sanities (in all likelihood) are less helpful then 1. The doc and back-up counter these disadvantages, imo. There's 7 and it ends up a little bit weaker then a cop and doc with 5 townies, imo. As to why the politician is pro-town, no role yet has differed significantly from the description in the roles page, so why should this one so drastically? And creating a pro-town recruiting group, which is quite rare to see?

Actually, re-reading Shady's post, he sounds like he isn't the politician, so

vote: stewie

[Tigris]

So what does Yanqush have to say (why is everyone having such a difficult time with including the u anyhow?)? I suggest any further voting/unvoting (from those who have voted already (Norinel and myself)) not take place until a tad more discussion.

[Tigris]

Might I just say, bs.
Either
A) Yanqush is evil and the mafia in this are complete morons.
B) Yanqush is not evil and the other mafia lies with either Norinel or Shady.

Here's why, you had three votes if he is evil. He controls one and then your two. So long as Electra does not target one of you, you win. I definitely have more to say about all this, but I have a meeting in 20 so, have fun.

[Tigris]

Twilight, but hey why not, not against the rules.
If there is a vigilante (which sounds extremely likely), I believe he/she should kill tonight, if Yanqush can buy Electra's vote, kill someone other then her, if not, kill her, she is a liability (sorry Electra), unless the vig is absolutely positive they know who the remaining mafia is.

[Tigris]

In three of the four minis so far I have been night killed first night twice and in the third game on the second and third night (was blocked the second night). So I guess it wouldn't be a mafia game if someone didn't try to kill me. Too bad I was out of town.

Anyhows, no night kill is likely due to the fact that I am a commuter. Not a powerful role by any stretch of the imagination, but it can be useful. At this point, I am somewhat interested in the role names for Shady and Norinel, but I think we can probably end this today (or set up a plan today that will basically end this game). To be completely honest, I personally think that three of the players are nearly definitely good, with only two people with question marks attached to them.

Yanqush- politician+2 mafia, with 6 people left=mafia win, which did not occur, so either quite poor play or is what he claims.

Norinel-good, reasoning being yesterday when the votes were falling, he could have voted for Yanqush, which with Electra and Stewie's votes would have reached before 3 for Stewie, so Yanqush would have been lynched. There is the possibility of a request to Electra to vote for someone else (which may have lead to a mod kill), but that may not have worked, so it would have been risky request at best.

Myself-similar reasoning as Norinel. Plus the only ways someone does not die last night is either if I am the last mafia and withheld a kill, (would be foolish imo, as once the fool votes I could end it with only 4 people, my vote making two and then I wait for deadline), someone else blocked it (highly unlikely imo), or I am telling the truth.

Not going to vote yet, but I think the safest bet is to lynch Electra today, someone (probably myself) dies tonight, and then Yanqush and Norinel finish the game tomorrow by lynching Shady.

Oh and the only way I see it possible to have 4 out of 12 people being mafia is if there is a restriction on voting, ala fool, otherwise a poor day-one lynch and the game could conceivably be over. 9 left, 4 mafia, fool votes for pro-town, mafia bandwagon kills them, game over.

[Tigris]

4 cops and 2 doctors. I'm afraid that I do not believe that.

vote: Shadyforce

, it really does not matter who is lynched first Shady or Electra in the scenario I presented. I think that Yanqush and Norinel are innocent, so either way it is a town win.

[Tigris]

unvote: Shady

, there is one other role that varies slightly from the role described as in the role section. Yanqush's, he says that he can only buy one vote, whereas in the role section it says one vote per night (does not mention a limitation).

There is one other aspect on how Norinel's claim differs from the role on the page as well. It states that one cannot hide on two consecutive nights, which norinel's list of investigations seems to contradict (night one and two)

Additionally, I would have to question the wisdom (play style) of how he hide and investigated, basically I would have used a completely different style with that role, but perhaps that is just a difference of styles, but it seems truly odd to me.

myself with that role:
Night one-investigate (or hide given my recent longevity in games )
night two-investigate either CD or CRiX
night three- investigate, but not CD (as his innocence/guilt would be proven with that night's events)
night four -hide, no clear cut target and 5 as opposed to 4 remaining is too large of an advantage to ignore (despite my loudness yesterday in hopes of becoming the target, and thus a no-kill night, I don't think there was a clear-cut target)

Oh and one quick question for Yanqush that I forgot about, why pick Shady as your bought vote? I'm just curious what prompted that.

[Tigris]

*sigh* I wish that one of you seemed less then scum.

Time to roll the dice I suppose.

Scenario
4 scum (with fool): CD, Stewie, Electra, . . .
Norinel, game over yesterday, 3 on Yanqush
Shady, possible
Yanqush, possible, but really unlikely (really poor play)
myself, game over yesterday
4 scum (without fool): game over now, unless I am mafia, but it would have been over yesterday if I was

3 scum: CD, Stewie, . . .
Yanqush, game over yesterday with intelligent play
Norinel, game over yesterday unless fool kills herself by voting someone other then name given-unlikely
myself, game over yesterday
Electra-I feel sorry for the mafia
Shady- game not over yesterday

But all of this is predicated on the idea of good play, so it might not apply. Oh well, here's to hoping I'm not giving Norinel too much credit (no offense intended).

vote: shady

[Tigris]

I am going on the assumption that 3 at deadline yesterday lynches, thus since Yanqush was the last to vote, 3 on him equals a lynch.

If Electra and Norinel are mafia, then yesterday they could have lynched Yanqush, and even if there was a vigilante (which there does not appear to be), then that would leave 2 scum and 1 town after that night, so town loss.

So I guess there are 3-4 possibilities in my mind right now.
1) Electra and Shady are mafia. Shady's vote was bought and Electra's vote was random, so they could not get the 3 needed to lynch at deadline.
2) Norinel is mafia. Missed a chance yesterday to lynch Yanqush, but possibility that a vigilante was out there might counteract that. Last day (with vigilante and no saves) would end with mafia, fool, and vigilante/myself. Thus a 50% chance of winning just randomly (which I would have gone for)
3) Shady is mafia. Couldn't lynch Yanqush because his vote was bought.
4) Yanqush or Electra is mafia (alone). I am not really considering these.

So I see two choices really. Lynch Shady or Electra. Anyone else is alone, imo, and thus potentially lynchable tomorrow even with a bad lynch today.

If Electra is mafia, then Shady is, imo. If Electra is not mafia, then either Norinel or Shady is acting alone. Lynching Shady today gives a 50% chance of lynching Norinel tomorrow (should Shady be innocent) and covers all bases. Whereas lynching Electra potentially gives us a better idea of who is mafia, and then the 3 of you (in reality Yanqush) can decide who is the last mafia.

Unless someone sees something I am missing, I guess I will

unvote: Shady

, until a bit of discussion on which approach would be better.

[Tigris]

Role run-down:
Yanqush-politician
Electra-fool
Myself-commuter
Shady-deputy
Norinel-cop
Kerplunk/PBuG-sibling cop
CD-sibling mafia
Stewie-godfather
Talitha-doctor
Dourgrim-nurse
Rite-cop
CRiX-retired cop

I only see one role duplicated in this entire set-up, but despite my normal slightly reckless play, I am usually somewhat cautious in an end-game situation.

If Shady and Norinel are both mafia, the game is over now, as they could just vote for me. If I was mafia, I would not have gone after Stewie for his townie claim and I would have gambled on there not being a vigilante/the fool not voting for me, gotten Yanqush lynched and Stewie and I would have won.

Re-looking over the first day, I am inclined to vote for Norinel, partially because with one cop dead, 2 more claiming, he didn't seem to find this odd in the slightest. I guess I will leave it up to Yanqush, I will vote for whomever he chooses. The safest route would be Electra, but my instinct says Norinel.

[Tigris]

Well, first game I talk a whole bunch *shrug*

I had written out a somewhat lengthy thing about this vote, but my browser went dead, so whatevs.

vote: norinel

, if it is wrong, good game scum (although it is not necessarily over), if not, you really should have won. That's 3, so a lynch.

[Tigris]

vote: Electra

, to me it's the only thing that makes sense.
If Shady was mafia, then he would have killed me yesterday with Norinel.
And to be honest I would be highly amused at any explanation that makes me the last mafia

[Tigris]

Awww, thanks Shady ^_^
I was thinking that possibilities might include
1) I'm pwd (posting while drunk)
2) I forgot which game I am in, this is mafia 22 right?
3) I didn't read the original pm, so I am just guessing my role and that I am pro-town
4) My tiger ate my homework, erm, uhm, disregard that last one

good game everyone, great job shady, sorry about the suspicion 'yesterday', it was fun playing with you all. Thanks for modding Discer.

[Tigris]

I must say that I quite enjoyed this one.
@ Yanqush, thanks for keeping a calmer head then I on day 3, otherwise we would have lost.
@ Shady, I think I played poorly for most of this game actually , I should have gone after Stewie for the townie claim day 2 and then when CD didn't kill, gotten him lynched the next day, and I should have realized on the next to last day that Electra was defending Norinel fairly strongly, but oh well, gives me things to improve upon.
@ norinel, thanks for the interesting read. ^_^ Good to know I was a potential target 3 of 4 nights (although I was hoping to draw attention to myself day 3, so glad that kinda worked). You should have won, but good game none-the-less.
@stewie-what does vidi mean?

Discer, thanks, it was really fun game to play. Game balance wise, if everyone was new, slanted towards town, with more experienced slanted slightly towards mafia. Just because the issue of cop sanity, imo. I would never have believed in 2 cops, a retired cop, and a deputy with all of them being sane, whereas a really new person might. All in all, a great game partly because experience actually hurts your chances of figuring out the set-up. ^_^ (course the night-kill immunity worked in a similar way against the mafia ^_^) Since it ended with 2 town and 1 mafia, the balance seems pretty good.

Oh and just for fun, so far in all the games I have played here (and on the old forum) the town has yet to lose, that's just plain weird, imo.