Mini 52 - Gamersville (IT IS FINISHED)

[Norinel]

FOS: the old man

How did he read so much into that one little package?

random vote: CurtainDog

[Norinel]

Huh?

[Norinel]

PBuG, do you know your sanity? I wouldn't be too surprised if one of the twin cops was sane and the other insane, or some other nifty connection thing like that.

[Norinel]

Whats this bandwagoning of CurtainDog?

I random voted him, and then PBuG came out as a cop who had a guilty result for him. Since there doesn't seem to be a lot of "follow the cop" going on, it doesn't look like my vote needs to stay on so

unvote: CD

Talitha- the Roles page is not necessarily exactly what's in this game, or any other. I've been in games where the doctors could protect themselves once or whatever, so I wouldn't be surprised if discer tweaked the "sibling" role so it's two cops instead of a cop and a mafia. Either way, it'd probably be a waste of a lynch if he'll die tonight anyway, or, if he's wrong about rite being his sibling, the mafia will probably kill him to get two cops for the price of one.

Electra, IIRC, sometimes cop sanities are revealed on death, sometimes they aren't.

[Norinel]

Your brother's name is Mafioso, but he is a cop? That's odd.

Electra, that's an odd restriction, but I certainly wouldn't've just let you off with a warning. minor non-bold FOS: Electra, since I let a fake posting restriction slide in my last game.

[Norinel]

Norinel - i guess you are right.

Right about what, exactly?

um... so do we have a pair of
cop twins, a mafia/cop or gd cop/corrupt cop?

From what PBuG said in his clarification, it's mafia/cop, and rite (presumably) doesn't have anything to do with it. The sane/insane thing was something I suggested as a possibility when we thought it was a cop/cop pair.

[Norinel]

um.. question, dont paranoid cops return only 1 verdict of "guilty"? are insane cops the same?, or do they return a opposite verdict to the real result i.e. return guilty when innocent and vice versa

Paranoid cops always receive a guilty result. Insane cops work as you describe- guilty if innocent and innocent if guilty. It's not a possibility here, but, FYI, the fourth sanity (Besides sane, correct) is naive, which always receives an innocent result.

also, how would we fine out if PBug is sane or not even if he dies?,we didnt fine out if rite was in/sane...(or did i miss something?)

Yeah, some mods reveal sanity on death, some don't. From rite's death description, we can assume this won't happen in this game. That's the main problem with PBuG's plan.

Sorry about the incomplete posting of no lynch rules.

[Norinel]

(For the record, I didn't see The Post before it got editted)

Yeah, random cops are possible but unlikely, or he could be some weird sanity we've never heard of before, but I doubt that.

Stewie and PBuG, you've both posted since CRiX has, and neither of you have removed your vote. (Same as Electra, but she doesn't count for obvious reasons) Is there some reason you're keeping your votes on?

Personally, I wouldn't have a doc save prevent the suicide since it's not an actual attack, but that's just me.

[Norinel]

Personally, I wouldn't have a doc save prevent the suicide since it's not an actual attack, but that's just me.

Looking at that after I post it, it doesn't sound quite right. I mean something along the lines of "If I were the mod, I wouldn't have a doc..."

[Norinel]

Yeah, things do seem a bit cop-heavy, but I'm kind of inclined to believe CRiX. (Is the two uppercase consonants, lowercase vowel, uppercase consonant thing just a coincidence?) I do have a question for him, though: When would you start cop duty? When any cop dies? When one particular cop dies? When all the cops die?

[Norinel]

That summary's pretty good, but one might add that since one cop (rite) died, CRiX can now investigate. I need to look back over things and figure out if there's someone else who's suspicious.

Norinel - it's not coincidence, unless you count me typing it that way 3 years coincidence.. or do you mean that only a vowel is lower-case? That's intentional, because vowels are evil.

Well, I was asking if the way they're of basically the same format is a coincidence. It's more obvious when they're on two lines:
CRiX
PBuG

[Norinel]

Argh.. I was gonna say that if Rite was to be believed as now being the cop, then PBuG's dubious cop claim is now expendable and we should lynch him. But then I remembered that we have to wait and see if he commits suicide, to confirm the twin thing.

PBuG's claim is that some mafioso is his sibling, so he won't suicide tonight unless the sibling gets killed during this day. non-bold FOS: Talitha since this hasn't been the first time (s)he's misinterpreted things. It could just be newbiness, or it could be trying to get the rest of the town in trouble.

[Norinel]

vote: Yanqush

For seeming to try to subtly influence the town:

Whats this bandwagoning of CurtainDog?

Which wasn't actually bandwagoning, unless PBuG decided to Lepton on CD just because I'd randomly voted him. If it had formed a bandwagon, it might've started a case against myself, PBuG, or someone else who voted for CD later. (He did retract it later, when there turned out to not be a bandwagon after all)

CRiX.... are you alive?, if so, stop lurking....

Unlike other people who made an anti-lurking suggestion, he never voted for CRiX, so it's possible his statement could've been overlooked.

[Norinel]

It's certainly possible that the sibling thing is limitation enough without insanity, but there was a whole argument about something similar on the GL (Alternate Universe Mafia, around pages 5 or 6) where it at least appeared to turn out that a weakened cop was also insane. That said, I'd be willing to vote for CD if nothing better seems to come up, nobody else thinks Yanqush is suspicious, etc.

[Norinel]

Hmm, from a deathcount standpoint, it'd be just a little bit worse a no-lynch today, a night with a death tonight, and then lynching scum. (Since docs couldn't protect successfully, and pro-town roles wouldn't get the action) That said, I'd rather not lynch someone who I don't find particularly suspicious without his consent.

[Norinel]

minor FOS in addition to other stuff against you: CD

Dismissing a cop with a guilty result on you as a distraction is a bit odd. On the other hand, some of the arguments against Talitha (Which I reread due to the second vote going there) seem to have some validity, so I guess I'll throw out an

FOS: Talitha

as well.

unvote: Yanqush

since it doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere.

[Norinel]

Norinel: Do you support Kerplunk? You seem to defend him a lot, even to the point that you never make any assumption that he can be mafia at all.

Not particularly, but it's redundant to put "if he's not lying" or "claimed" every time I reference him.

Why do you assume that Kerplunk(PBuG) is a cop based only on what he said again and again?, do you know something that we dont know about?

It's partially because of the incredibly early claim. In my experience, when there's no particular pressure, pro-town players are more likely to claim earlier than anti-town players.

Hmm, from a deathcount standpoint, it'd be just a little bit worse a no-lynch today, a night with a death tonight, and then lynching scum. (Since docs couldn't protect successfully, and pro-town roles wouldn't get the action) That said, I'd rather not lynch someone who I don't find particularly suspicious without his consent.

Here you are defending Kerplunk again.

Well, I said I don't find him particularly suspicious, and the lynch would get rid of both sides of a mafia/cop sibling whether he's lying and is the mafia side of a sibling pair (If the cop wasn't rite) or he isn't.

Yeah, things do seem a bit cop-heavy, but I'm kind of inclined to believe CRiX. (Is the two uppercase consonants, lowercase vowel, uppercase consonant thing just a coincidence?)

I do have a question for him, though: When would you start cop duty? When any cop dies? When one particular cop dies? When all the cops die?

But on the other hand questioning this backup cop like there is no tomorrow

Now you're misinterpreting what I said. Do you see the second part of the first sentence, the one where I said

I'm kind of inclined to believe CRiX

. The questions were just for clarification.

Argh,

vote: Yanqush

. Partially OMGUS, partially things I've said before, partially his argument.

[Norinel]

Also for the record, Dourgrim, CurtainDog, Stewie, please feel free to unvote me. I really wont mind being unable to speak under those circumstances! (Maybe if I post enough you'll do it just to shut me up??!!!)

So what you're saying is that you don't like the situation you and/or the town is in enough to not want to be a part of it, or do you just not want the votes against you?

Actually, I'm not sure if unvoting you would silence you, so

mod:

If enough people unvoted Talitha to bring her down to two votes, would she be able to speak?

[Norinel]

If it's worth anything, you answered my question. Basically, it was "Do you not want to talk or do you want to be lynched?"

[Norinel]

"...or do you

not

want to be lynched", ugh. I didn't think I was that tired.

[Norinel]

Well, the deadline is hours past; that's odd.

[Norinel]

What's the word from Kerplunk and CRiX about last night's investigations?

[Norinel]

With the possibility of paranoia still up in the air, CD being scum is no sure thing, but lynching him would be the beginning of a sanity check. Also, his attack on CRiX is a bit incongruous, especially since he was a part of one of the strange events he listed, Talitha's lynch. I'm still not sure enough about it to put him one vote away from a lynch, though.

Tigris, I disagree about the role being useless. If it comes to pass that he won't be lynched today somehow, we could have everyone vote and unvote him like the town did to someone with a similar role in the Blinivational so that he could kill anyone if he wanted. Admittedly, this does have the one disadvantage that he could be scum with an ability that's based on being voted for.

[Norinel]

I disagree that CRiX investigating Kerplunk was completely pointless, partially because if his role is what he's claimed, the mafia wouldn't kill him.

We seem to sort of be between bandwagons, so I'll

FOS: doct3rd

for not posting, which'll turn into a vote in 24 hours if he doesn't post.

[Norinel]

vote: CurtainDog unvote: CurtainDog

I'll second the request for a mod prod/replacement. Bandwagoning nonposters isn't much, but I've already said I'd

vote: doct3rd

.

[Norinel]

unvote: doct3rd

Hopefully his replacement will liven things up a little.

CRiX hasn't posted anywhere since Tuesday.

[Norinel]

Except for CD's, all the claimed and revealed roles so far have been from the roles page. The Nurse is a backup doctor, yeah.

[Norinel]

Okay, shadyforce coming into the game with a bang is what I'd been hoping for.

Regarding the specific argument against me, I don't have any particular reason to believe Kerplunk's not scum other than PBuG's early claim.

On lynching Kerplunk- why don't we have CD kill him tonight instead? If CD's telling the truth, it'd get rid of his scum sibling or his scum self without wasting a lynch, and if he isn't, there's a good chance he's lying (Unless Kerplunk's a GF or something), and we'll probably be able to lynch him tomorrow. And why do people think lynching Kerplunk will reveal his sanity, even if he is a cop? Rite's sanity wasn't revealed.

it seems Norinel's style has changed slightly from a game I played with him in the past (he was a nosy neighbor in that one).

I think it's a style in reference to role thing. Since I claimed Day 1 in Mini 32, I posted as a generally trusted cop for the rest of the game. In this game, having not yet claimed, I usually post as generic unclaimed town.

[Norinel]

Oh yeah, the whole next night timing issue. I think I see the argument for lynching Kerplunk now and am starting to buy it, but I won't vote for him just yet. Is there any consensus on who CD should try to kill?

For what it's worth, my role is also from the role list.

[Norinel]

By the way, I hope everybody entertains the possibility that there are no siblings in the game.

Of course- if Kerplunk's lying non-sibling scum, lynching him would be better than it would be if he were telling the truth. The only way that lynching him would be worse than if he is a sibling is if he were pro-town but not a sibling, which is incredibly unlikely.

I was thinking about this last night and I realized that since all the scum have to die in order for a town win, Kerplunk or his sibling (Whichever one's scum) would have to die eventually, so Kerplunk would have to die eventually.

vote:Kerplunk

Here's a claim list, to get all the roleclaim info into one place:
blackhawk (replaced CRiX)- backup cop
CURTAINDOG- vigilante with a taste for revenge
Electra- has to vote randomly
Kerplunk (replaced PBuG)- cop sibling
Norinel- from the role list
Shadyforce (replaced doct3rd)- not a townie
Stewie- townie
Tigris- from the role list, not a townie
Yanqush

[Norinel]

unvote: Kerplunk vote: blackhawk

until he votes and unvotes CD.

[Norinel]

unvote: blackhawk

Yeah, CD's roleclaim is that he's a vig who can only kill people who vote for him.

[Norinel]

What Stewie said, and that I'm male, so even if I were the royal head of scum, I'd be the king of the mafia.

[Norinel]

Given the deadline and that everyone's voted for CD at some point, it's probably time to

vote: Kerplunk

[Norinel]

That's an interesting vote count. Looks like some form of the Politician, which I certainly didn't expect to see.

Anyway, I suppose it increases the likelihood of Stewie's guilt since this means Kerplunk couldn't have been insane (It's a bit ironic that PBuG investigated his sibling Night 1, isn't it.). Given the weird vote, I'll stick with an

FOS: Stewie

, though.

[Norinel]

Stewie, we don't know Electra is a fool. All we know is that she gives a random-seeming vote early in the day and then never changes it. Whether or not she could change it can only be proven by her changing it and getting modkilled or not. Scum can make up restrictions.

Apart from that, I think it is reasonable to assume that if there is a politician he/she is definitely pro-town although since I wasn't notified of my vote being fixed, I assume it must have been a mistake.

Why do you think that? I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of our "obvious" vote-affecting roles were scum, just to throw us off. The high amount of power roles makes me think there has to be a catch along those lines.

And as far as it being a mistake, I doubt it. When's the last time you saw a vote count immediately after the declaration of day?

Finally

fos: Norinel

for trying to act all pro-townish by dismissing Stewie yet reluctant to actually start the bandwagon. I personally think voting Stewie is the obvious move and just fosing him is a little too cautious.

Well, everyone's trying to act pro-town, since most people don't want to get lynched.

[Norinel]

When there's weird voting stuff going on, I'd rather not vote before discussion.

I suppose that means that Tigris isn't the politician, which, given that I'm not either, would leave Yanqush unless something weird's going on like Electra being a fool politician.

Yeah, it's possible that Stewie may be flailing about for a reason to cast suspicion on anyone but himself.

[Norinel]

Well, both Tigris and I have denied being the politician, so if it's someone who wouldn't lie about it, it's Yanqush. Not only that, given the guilty result on Stewie that we knew to be made by a real cop last night, it would have made sense to buy a vote for him from someone who might've seemed a bit suspicious at the time. Stewie, your last to post just made it very clear to me that you're trying to get anything to happen that doesn't involved you getting lynched, so

vote: Stewie

[Norinel]

Yanqush's post wasn't all that clear to me, so, just to be sure: Are you the politician/vote buyer? Are you affiliated with Stewie?

Here's a thought- If Stewie's actually telling the truth about being a GF with kill immunity, then there'd have to be other kills for that to be helpful. Since there's probably not an SK, that'd imply that there is a vigilante. If we lynch Stewie and the mafia kill succeeds, there'll be four players left, so even a vigilante killing a townie would bring the total down to three, so there's a better chance of getting the last scum.

[Norinel]

Ok I think we can say there are 2 more mafia which would counter the wealth of powerful roles on the town side. It is likely there is another doc if this is the case.

I don't think the roles we've seen justify more than three mafia total, especially with checks on the roles such as the fool or potentially non-sane cops. (Paranoid and naive cops are worse than townies until they figure out they're paranoid or naive, in which case they basically are townies.)

By the way, could someone summarize the results of all our cops thus far?

IIRC, every cop investigatee that's been posted in the thread, as well as all the claimed cops, are dead.

And who the hell is this old man???

He looks like an NPC who gives roles of the dead to some extent. There's a slight possibility he's actually a role in the game (And maybe the mafia targetted him), but that'd be more complex than the roles we've seen so far.

[Norinel]

One error on your part: Blackhawk was a backup cop, so he didn't get copness until Night 2, after rite died. That means it's only one result we don't know about, so it's pretty much random. I'd suggest rite, because blackhawk probably investigated one of the dead scum Night 3, if any.

[Norinel]

I also don't really like shadyforce's claim, but I think we shouldn't lynch him before he gives his results, so that we get something even if he is town or in case the results are interesting.

[Norinel]

I'm not surprised nothing useful came out of that.

For what it's worth, I'm the Cowardly Reporter, who can choose to investigate or hide each night. I investigated CD Night 3 and got innocent, so I know I'm not sane, and I also got shadyforce innocent last night, so lynching him would (Perhaps) determine my sanity. If he's innocent, I'm naive, so I'll just hide; if he's guilty, I could be insane, so I'll go for another investigation.

[Norinel]

Okay, so I lied, and didn't do a very good job of it. I'm a naïve Cop, with innocent results for CRiX on Night 1 and Electra Night 2, in addition to the results I gave. The reason behind my lie was that I suspect Tigris might actually be a Bulletproof Vest lying to get the mafia to target her tonight, so my claiming a protected role would make them less likely to target me. If we lynch shady and the mafia kill fails, we open the day with 4, which gives us a small chance to not lose if there are two mafia left and shady is neither of them.

The incongruity of the claim was a mistake, but saying the shadyforce lynch would be a sanity check was to see how he'd react. His reaction's a bit too acerbic for my tastes, so

vote: shadyforce

[Norinel]

unvote: shadyforce

I think we shouldn't forget the possibility of Tigris being mafia and withholding the kill last night to solidify her claim. Given that that'd be giving up the chance to get the town from five to four, it doesn't seem very likely unless there were a second mafia and they were expecting a successful vigikill tonight (Maybe Stewie was telling the truth about his abilities.).

[Norinel]

I think there were about three points where we as scum could've won but didn't. As was pointed out in-thread, we might've been able to force a lynch Day 3, but didn't expect the politician (My prediction on the unclaimed town roles that night was two masons and a vigi). If we had gone for shadyforce instead of Tigris Night 4, we'd've won, but we decided that we had to go for one of those two to get the vigilante, who we still thought existed. Day 4, there was almost a 24 hour period where shady was one vote away from a lynch and Electra could've voted for him (Because the voting restriction had ended when it was just me and her) but didn't.

I think I do deserve some props for picking out Dourgrim as a quasilurker, which probably meant doc or SK, night 2.

I did have a good time, since this was my first full game as scum.

[Norinel]

Oh yeah, if I'd been absolutely certain CD was the other sibling (We didn't hear from him N1), I'd have been more willing to lynch him.

[Norinel]

Cause I'm in a good mood (And don't want to do real work), here are some scum pms: (Warning: Long post ahead!)

Night 1:

You are the idiot henchman. Norinel and CURTAINDOG are your fellow henchmen and Stewie is your godfather. You may communicate with them at night. Each night your family must decide which player you would like to kill and in the event of the deaths of your godfather and Norinel, it will be your responsibility to send me this choice, so long as you live. Because you are an idiot, you must vote randomly. Each night I will send you the name of the player you MUST vote for. Failure to vote for this player will result in your instant death! If two of your family members should be killed, your surviving family member will slap the idiot out of you and you will be able to vote however you wish.

discer

Hey, 4 person Mafia. =p Either this game is going to be really easy, or one of you is going to betray us. =)

Well, I think we should go for rite. What do the rest of you think?

Hey, 4 person Mafia. =p Either this game is going to be really easy, or one of you is going to betray us. =)

Perhaps, or there are other checks on our abilities. We already know Electra has to vote randomly. Perhaps our gf is a bit weak (Stewie, do you have the standard gf perks of nightkill and investigation immunity?) or it's harder for us to kill than would be expected (The rules post made a reference to being not really dead, so perhaps that'll happen on occasion.)

It looks like only four of the non-scum are non-newbies (CRIX, Dourgrim, rite, and Tigris), so I suggest we kill one of them first due to standard don't-kill-newbies-Night-1 stigma.

You are a godfather. You are immune to night kills. Norinel, Electra and CURTAINDOG are your henchmen and you may communicate with them at night. Each night your family must decide which player you would like to kill and it is YOUR responsibility to send me this choice, so long as you live.

discer

I'm immune to night kills, it doesn't say anything about investigations.

Killing rite sounds good to me.

Night 2:

I think we should kill CRiX, since he's probably going to investigate CD tonight. What do you think?

I'm pretty sure I'm dead anyway.

I was thinking we kill Kerplunk then Stewie and Norinel can bandwagon me quickly tomorrow which will -

1) make Stewie and Norinel look innocent
2) be of no real detriment to us seeing as I would commit suicide that night anyway

I think there's a good chance CRiX will investigate either me or Kerplunk, so it's not as important to get him right now.

Alternatively, we kill CRiX and bandwagon me tomorrow as above - this will get rid of kerplunk that evening. However, I think kerplunk has a better chance of investigating one of you guys tonight than crix does. Also, if there's a back-up doc crix will be the number one target.

Any thoughts?

(a cop and a doc dead on day one - good work fellas!)

I think we should kill CRiX, since he's probably going to investigate Curtain Dog.

What's your opinion?

I'm pretty sure I'm dead anyway.

I was thinking we kill Kerplunk then Stewie and Norinel can bandwagon me quickly tomorrow which will -

1) make Stewie and Norinel look innocent
2) be of no real detriment to us seeing as I would commit suicide that night anyway

I think there's a good chance CRiX will investigate either me or Kerplunk, so it's not as important to get him right now.

Alternatively, we kill CRiX and bandwagon me tomorrow as above - this will get rid of kerplunk that evening. However, I think kerplunk has a better chance of investigating one of you guys tonight than crix does. Also, if there's a back-up doc crix will be the number one target.

Any thoughts?

(a cop and a doc dead on day one - good work fellas!)

We should definitely NOT kill Kerplunk, because Kerplunk will die when his Mafia sibling dies, CurtainDog, right? Is there going to be a backup doc, you think? If so, we shouldn't kill CRiX either, because he'll probably be protected...

I think we should kill CRiX, since he's probably going to investigate Curtain Dog.

What's your opinion?

I'm pretty sure I'm dead anyway.

I was thinking we kill Kerplunk then Stewie and Norinel can bandwagon me quickly tomorrow which will -

1) make Stewie and Norinel look innocent
2) be of no real detriment to us seeing as I would commit suicide that night anyway

I think there's a good chance CRiX will investigate either me or Kerplunk, so it's not as important to get him right now.

Alternatively, we kill CRiX and bandwagon me tomorrow as above - this will get rid of kerplunk that evening. However, I think kerplunk has a better chance of investigating one of you guys tonight than crix does. Also, if there's a back-up doc crix will be the number one target.

Any thoughts?

(a cop and a doc dead on day one - good work fellas!)

We should definitely NOT kill Kerplunk, because Kerplunk will die when his Mafia sibling dies, CurtainDog, right? Is there going to be a backup doc, you think? If so, we shouldn't kill CRiX either, because he'll probably be protected...

CurtainDog, are you sure you are the slibing. Because if you are not, that wouldn't work. Good point, CRiX is going to be protected

if

there's a backup doc. So I guess the options are:

1. We take a chance and kill CRiX
or 2. We kill someone else.

Any thoughts?

I'm not in favor of a sacrifice play, because we still might be able to use the general town assumption that there wouldn't be four scum to our advantage. That said, I will hop on a CD bandwagon if that's what we choose to do.

If we kill CRiX, there's certainly less of a chance of the kill succeeding due to him being a likely doc target, but we get a cop with the added bonus of his death not verifying any previous results, because he doesn't have any. I've also dropped a hint that I have information that suggests his innocence, (Which Yanqush managed to completely misinterpret) so maybe some hypothetical mafia that doesn't include me might pick up on it and use it as their motive to kill.

If we kill someone who hasn't claimed, my suggestion is Dourgrim. He sort of was lurkingish in the beginning of the day in a way that could suggest doc or SK or something. It's just a hunch, though.

so is it:

a) we risk the fact that CRiX is probably going to be prtected and target him.

b) we kill someone else, and keep playing normally in day 2

c) we kill someone else and sacrifice CD tomorrow.

a) we risk the fact that CRiX is probably going to be prtected and target him.

b) we kill someone else, and keep playing normally in day 2

c) we kill someone else and sacrifice CD tomorrow.

Personally, I'm in favor of b. But there's one other thing we should think about- quicklynching. Since there are 10 people now, if our nightkill succeeds, none of us are vigikilled, and a non-Kerplunk townie is lynched today, it should be (Unless something bizarre goes on with the whole "not really dead" thing) eight living players and four scum, which might/should be a win. On the other hand, throwing in the last vote for the first townie who's one short is an easy way to get lynched tomorrow. I think CD (Especially, since his lynching would get a cop and he's already been fingered as guilty) and myself, being the non-gfs with control over our votes and who've been directly attacked Day 1, are expendable enough to throw in a lynching vote. On the other hand, since there's probably another nightkiller in this game (Since Stewie's protected from nightkills), they might kill the quicklyncher, which'd make a best case scenario of three scum, four innocents Day 3, so we'd need to make another townie lynch in order to win. What do you all think?

a) we risk the fact that CRiX is probably going to be prtected and target him.

b) we kill someone else, and keep playing normally in day 2

c) we kill someone else and sacrifice CD tomorrow.

Personally, I'm in favor of b. But there's one other thing we should think about- quicklynching. Since there are 10 people now, if our nightkill succeeds, none of us are vigikilled, and a non-Kerplunk townie is lynched today, it should be (Unless something bizarre goes on with the whole "not really dead" thing) eight living players and four scum, which might/should be a win. On the other hand, throwing in the last vote for the first townie who's one short is an easy way to get lynched tomorrow. I think CD (Especially, since his lynching would get a cop and he's already been fingered as guilty) and myself, being the non-gfs with control over our votes and who've been directly attacked Day 1, are expendable enough to throw in a lynching vote. On the other hand, since there's probably another nightkiller in this game (Since Stewie's protected from nightkills), they might kill the quicklyncher, which'd make a best case scenario of three scum, four innocents Day 3, so we'd need to make another townie lynch in order to win. What do you all think?

I say we kill someone that didn't post much, since that person is probably vigi/SK. I was thinking of Dougrim. And then vote CD

if

CRiX investigated him and he gets guilty, and says so in the thread. Of course only Norinel and I can do that, and Electra too if Discer randomly picks CD. Here's my logic to this strategy:

We successfully kill Dougrim. Tommorow, CRiX says "I investigated CD and got guilty" We lynch CD. That's 8 players left. Now in night 3, we successfully kill someone, exept Kerplunk. 6 players left, 3 mafia. Electra, CD, Norinel and I win, unless, as you said, some weird trigger is set off/someone kills one of us.

Norinel? CD? Electra? What do you think?

a) we risk the fact that CRiX is probably going to be prtected and target him.

b) we kill someone else, and keep playing normally in day 2

c) we kill someone else and sacrifice CD tomorrow.

Personally, I'm in favor of b. But there's one other thing we should think about- quicklynching. Since there are 10 people now, if our nightkill succeeds, none of us are vigikilled, and a non-Kerplunk townie is lynched today, it should be (Unless something bizarre goes on with the whole "not really dead" thing) eight living players and four scum, which might/should be a win. On the other hand, throwing in the last vote for the first townie who's one short is an easy way to get lynched tomorrow. I think CD (Especially, since his lynching would get a cop and he's already been fingered as guilty) and myself, being the non-gfs with control over our votes and who've been directly attacked Day 1, are expendable enough to throw in a lynching vote. On the other hand, since there's probably another nightkiller in this game (Since Stewie's protected from nightkills), they might kill the quicklyncher, which'd make a best case scenario of three scum, four innocents Day 3, so we'd need to make another townie lynch in order to win. What do you all think?

I say we kill someone that didn't post much, since that person is probably vigi/SK. I was thinking of Dougrim. And then vote CD

if

CRiX investigated him and he gets guilty, and says so in the thread. Of course only Norinel and I can do that, and Electra too if Discer randomly picks CD. Here's my logic to this strategy:

We successfully kill Dougrim. Tommorow, CRiX says "I investigated CD and got guilty" We lynch CD. That's 8 players left. Now in night 3, we successfully kill someone, exept Kerplunk. 6 players left, 3 mafia. Electra, CD, Norinel and I win, unless, as you said, some weird trigger is set off/someone kills one of us.

Norinel? CD? Electra? What do you think?

That sounds good to me. =)

I say we kill someone that didn't post much, since that person is probably vigi/SK. I was thinking of Dougrim. And then vote CD if CRiX investigated him and he gets guilty, and says so in the thread. Of course only Norinel and I can do that, and Electra too if Discer randomly picks CD. Here's my logic to this strategy:

We successfully kill Dougrim. Tommorow, CRiX says "I investigated CD and got guilty" We lynch CD. That's 8 players left. Now in night 3, we successfully kill someone, exept Kerplunk. 6 players left, 3 mafia. Electra, CD, Norinel and I win, unless, as you said, some weird trigger is set off/someone kills one of us.

Norinel? CD? Electra? What do you think?

That sounds pretty good, except for Kerplunk's investigation. There are basically four cases:

1. He investigates a non-scum and gets innocent. He's probably sane, so we should be able to get CD, Kerplunk, or the non-scum lynched (By convincing the town he's insane and if CRiX didn't investigate CD).
2. He investigates a non-scum and gets guilty. He's probably paranoid or the non-scum is an SK. If CRiX investigates CD, we can lynch CD and maybe the non-scum the next day.
3. He investigates scum (Besides CD) and gets innocent. He's random, or something equally bizarre is going on. Same as case 2, with the extra bonus that whoever he investigated is semi-confirmed as innocent.
4. He investigates scum and gets guilty. This is the case that scares me a bit. He's probably paranoid or sane, but we may be able to convince him that he's paranoid and get CD lynched if CRiX investigates him.

That sounds pretty good, except for Kerplunk's investigation. There are basically four cases:

1. He investigates a non-scum and gets innocent. He's probably sane, so we should be able to get CD, Kerplunk, or the non-scum lynched (By convincing the town he's insane and if CRiX didn't investigate CD).
2. He investigates a non-scum and gets guilty. He's probably paranoid or the non-scum is an SK. If CRiX investigates CD, we can lynch CD and maybe the non-scum the next day.
3. He investigates scum (Besides CD) and gets innocent. He's random, or something equally bizarre is going on. Same as case 2, with the extra bonus that whoever he investigated is semi-confirmed as innocent.
4. He investigates scum and gets guilty. This is the case that scares me a bit. He's probably paranoid or sane, but we may be able to convince him that he's paranoid and get CD lynched if CRiX investigates him.

Like you said, the only one that can be a problem is #4, and even if it's you or me, we are going to lynch CRiX if he investigated, and we are going to be clean. Anyways, I'm going for it. I'll send the night choice this afternoon.

Night 3:

Well, that didn't quite go as planned. Actually a little better, IMO, since CD's claim makes it less likely for any real vigilantes to kill us tonight (And even if they did, the most likely target would be Stewie, who's immune). Since CD suicides, we should win if we kill someone successfully and none of us die. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if we haven't won by morning, so I think we need to figure out what we do if that is the case. I think Stewie's lynch is pretty inevitable, especially if the one or two that haven't claimed claim not townie.

I think the most likely distribution of the remaining three roles is 2 masons and a vigilante (Or maybe a townie, but Stewie's nightkill protection would be redundant if there weren't another killer). I think Tigris and shadyforce/doct3rd are probably the masons, because nobody went along with Yanqush's attack on me, and Tigris suggested replacement of a lurking doct3rd instead of voting him, later subtly defending him. Yanqush's mention of CD's roleclaim as shaky fits with him being a vigilante, as well.

Anyway, here's my thoughts on the potential targets:
blackhawk- On the one hand, he's a cop whose death doesn't validate any useful results. On the other hand, he's a newbie and doesn't seem to pay attention, and if there were any docs left, he'd still probably be the number one target.
shadyforce- Probably a mason, and he's made some meaningful contributions.
Tigris- Tigris is definitely the most experienced (At least on Mafiascum) of the town, so she'd be the one most likely to actually pick us out if it comes to that.
Yanqush- Probably the vigilante, but killing him probably won't stop him from killing tonight. Attacked me for no particular reason, and I might be able to twist that down the line.

In my opinion and assuming my guesses are correct, the only non-us we can get lynched is Yanqush, and the best choice for a nightkill tonight would be either blackhawk or Tigris.

Hey all,

Nice analysis Norinel.

I went with the vigilante claim specifically to uncover the real vigilante (if any), who would probably be the biggest threat to us at the moment. At that time I assumed Kerplunk had found an innocent or he would've already come out. Oh well, sorry Stewie

Personally, I would lean towards killing blackhawk because that would make for a more interesting day. Maybe Stewie can come out tomorrow and claim Tigris tried to recruit him during the night -> we can make her (eventual) mason claim work against her.

Good luck tomorrow, fellow scum

Well, of those targets (or any targets), I think blackhawk is really the best bet now.

So I will send my choice if everyone agrees.

Well, of those targets (or any targets), I think blackhawk is really the best bet now.

So I will send my choice if everyone agrees.

Sounds good to me. Just keep in mind that if tomorrow is 3town/3maf, we still haven't won yet- my vote is taken, and we'd need to convince two other townies to votes the third townie.

Sounds good to me. Just keep in mind that if tomorrow is 3town/3maf, we still haven't won yet- my vote is taken, and we'd need to convince two other townies to votes the third townie.

Yeah, but there's a chance you'll randomly vote a townie, and even if one of us is lynched Day 3, as long as we kill successfully Nights 3 and 4 and don't get vigikilled, it'll be 2 v. 2 and Electra can vote nonrandomly again.

Maybe Stewie can come out tomorrow and claim Tigris tried to recruit him during the night -> we can make her (eventual) mason claim work against her.

I think this'd be worth a shot, since Stewie doesn't have much to lose. The worst case scenario is that nobody believes it and the probably-masons have an idea we're onto them. I think the best way to do it would be for Stewie to, as close to the beginning of the day as possible (Preferably before votes start to pile on), say that he got a request from a particular person to join some group (Althought it didn't say what sort of group). He turned it down for whatever reason and will reveal the name if asked or if he's about to be lynched. Or something like that.

Sounds good to me. Just keep in mind that if tomorrow is 3town/3maf, we still haven't won yet- my vote is taken, and we'd need to convince two other townies to votes the third townie.

Yeah, but there's a chance you'll randomly vote a townie, and even if one of us is lynched Day 3, as long as we kill successfully Nights 3 and 4 and don't get vigikilled, it'll be 2 v. 2 and Electra can vote nonrandomly again.

Maybe Stewie can come out tomorrow and claim Tigris tried to recruit him during the night -> we can make her (eventual) mason claim work against her.

I think this'd be worth a shot, since Stewie doesn't have much to lose. The worst case scenario is that nobody believes it and the probably-masons have an idea we're onto them. I think the best way to do it would be for Stewie to, as close to the beginning of the day as possible (Preferably before votes start to pile on), say that he got a request from a particular person to join some group (Althought it didn't say what sort of group). He turned it down for whatever reason and will reveal the name if asked or if he's about to be lynched. Or something like that.

alright, I'll do it. And I'll kill blackhawk tomorrow. (so if a good idea comes up we can tell it to each other)

Night 4:

As I posted in the vacation thread, I still might not be around this weekend, so it might lag the night a bit.

The bad news is the roles against us look nasty, but I still don't think the town suspects at all that you're scum or that there are two scum. The fact that you can vote how you'd like is a major asset, so you should probably start out with a "random" vote for a non-scum if you survive the night.

The politician role would be one of the biggest threats to us, but Yanqush's last post looks like the vote-buying was only one-shot, so we don't have to worry about it again. The rest of my post assumes it was, so if there is a bought vote, we pretty much have to wing it.

There's still probably a vigilante, shadyforce or Tigris, but shadyforce has said his role isn't particularly useful (Perhaps he's one-shot?) and Tigris made suggestions for the kill. It looks like one of us might be the most likely target, unfortunately. I think the most likely role for the other one might be the bulletproof vest (Can't be killed at night).

Tomorrow, the vigilante (If he kills) and Yanqush are pretty much confirmed to be innocent, so we probably can't let both of them survive. Counterclaiming vigilante might be the best choice for me.

Cases for tomorrow: (I know it's long, but I'm just trying to be exhaustive)
1. We kill anyone, and the vigilante kills another townie- We win by having a majority.

2. We kill the vigilante, and the vigilante kills one of us- Three players remain, and it's just a matter of talking through the endgame. You might be able to ride on the fool thing, but I don't have much of a chance.

3. We kill the vigilante, and the vigilante doesn't kill- Two on two; victory is pretty much inevitable.

4. We kill the politician, and the vigilante kills one of us- We can't do better than a tie, since the vigilante won't be lynched and can just kill the remaining scum if whichever one of us manages to actually lynch the non-politician non-vigilante.

5. We kill someone besides the vigilante, and the vigilante doesn't kill- We force no-lynch and kill the vigilante the following night, who then kills one of us, leaving one on one, probably a scum win.

6. We kill the non-politician non-vigilante, and the vigilante kills one of us- The two remaining pro-town roles are pretty much confirmed, so the only way out is a vigilante counterclaim or the fool thing.

7. Our kill fails (Targeting the vest, probably), and the vigilante kills you- I have to counterclaim vigilante, but probably get lynched anyway since the real vigilante's probably less suspicious than I am.

8. Our kill fails, and the vigilante kills me- It's a tossup with everyone's role being proven to some extent.

9. Our kill fails, and the vigilante doesn't kill- We could probably get me lynched and go to an endgame day with just you. We could potentially go for broke with a mason claim, but that's risky and we'd probably need to figure out a justification for the random voting. Maybe you could admit that it's been a front to hide the masons all along or something. The problem, of course, is that if either of us die before the game's over, we lose.

Given that, I think our best shot is to go for the vigilante by killing shadyforce or Tigris, but which one?

The politician role would be one of the biggest threats to us, but Yanqush's last post looks like the vote-buying was only one-shot, so we don't have to worry about it again. The rest of my post assumes it was, so if there is a bought vote, we pretty much have to wing it.

Agreed. It's not like it has happened before...

There's still probably a vigilante, shadyforce or Tigris, but shadyforce has said his role isn't particularly useful (Perhaps he's one-shot?) and Tigris made suggestions for the kill. It looks like one of us might be the most likely target, unfortunately. I think the most likely role for the other one might be the bulletproof vest (Can't be killed at night).

Why do you think we would have an immune to night kills? We've already had a doc and a backup [right?]

Cases for tomorrow: (I know it's long, but I'm just trying to be exhaustive)
1. We kill anyone, and the vigilante kills another townie- We win by having a majority.

2. We kill the vigilante, and the vigilante kills one of us- Three players remain, and it's just a matter of talking through the endgame. You might be able to ride on the fool thing, but I don't have much of a chance.

3. We kill the vigilante, and the vigilante doesn't kill- Two on two; victory is pretty much inevitable.

4. We kill the politician, and the vigilante kills one of us- We can't do better than a tie, since the vigilante won't be lynched and can just kill the remaining scum if whichever one of us manages to actually lynch the non-politician non-vigilante.

5. We kill someone besides the vigilante, and the vigilante doesn't kill- We force no-lynch and kill the vigilante the following night, who then kills one of us, leaving one on one, probably a scum win.

6. We kill the non-politician non-vigilante, and the vigilante kills one of us- The two remaining pro-town roles are pretty much confirmed, so the only way out is a vigilante counterclaim or the fool thing.

7. Our kill fails (Targeting the vest, probably), and the vigilante kills you- I have to counterclaim vigilante, but probably get lynched anyway since the real vigilante's probably less suspicious than I am.

8. Our kill fails, and the vigilante kills me- It's a tossup with everyone's role being proven to some extent.

9. Our kill fails, and the vigilante doesn't kill- We could probably get me lynched and go to an endgame day with just you. We could potentially go for broke with a mason claim, but that's risky and we'd probably need to figure out a justification for the random voting. Maybe you could admit that it's been a front to hide the masons all along or something. The problem, of course, is that if either of us die before the game's over, we lose.

Given that, I think our best shot is to go for the vigilante by killing shadyforce or Tigris, but which one?

Debatable. If both the vigilante and I die, then there's a high chance that we will lose. On the other hand, if there is no bullet proof vest, and we kill that person, you can claim vigi, saying that you offed me, which may or may not result in a lynch of real!vigilante. If that does happen, then you kill at night, and win the game.

I think we should kill Tigris. He seems a lot harder to lead on than sf, and will probably be a vote against you if still alive. There's a 50/50 chance of one of them being vigi, and of the two, Tigris IMO is just more dangerous.

-Ryo0oki

Why do you think we would have an immune to night kills? We've already had a doc and a backup [right?]

Yeah, but it's the most common role from the role list that could be left.

I think we should kill Tigris. He seems a lot harder to lead on than sf, and will probably be a vote against you if still alive. There's a 50/50 chance of one of them being vigi, and of the two, Tigris IMO is just more dangerous.

-Ryo0oki

Okay, Tigris it is.

[Norinel]

(Could a mod delete one of those?)