Similar-looking setups that have been approved:In post 3300, Maestro wrote:I don't know his this setup was in any way approved, so I completely agree with Creative. Unless we hit a PR every night we were absolutely fucked. And every single thing I said in Twilight I meant, I stand by it 100%, even if it was posted fake-drunk.
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=29549
Spoiler:
Mini Normal 1707 - Frog Mafia!
Moderator: Fro99er
Current Update: Town Win
Playerlist
Malakittens, Town Jailkeeper, survived
ika, Mafia Goon, lynched day 5
Metal Sonic, Town Even-Night Gunsmith, survived
shaddowez, Town Ascetic Odd-Night Cop, survived
AxleGreaser, Vanilla Townie, survived
BlueBloodedToffee replaced Dizzle, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 3
Shiro, Mafia Goon, lynched day 2
Scorpious replaced Ciara24, Vanilla Townie, survived
notscience, Vanilla Townie, survived
zakk replaced satsujin, Town Backup Role Cop, lynched day 4
MaxwellPuckett replaced Nosferatu, Mafia Encryptor, lynched day 1
pistachi0n replaced VeeGee, Vanilla Townie, survived
singersigner, Vanilla Townie, survived
Three times you've had something similar to the odd night cop, even night GS mechanic:
1707:
Jailkepeer, Ascetic odd night cop, even night gs, backup rolecop (troll role)
vs goon, goon, encryptor
1861:
Jailkeeper, Odd night cop, even night cop
vs role cop, goon, goon
1919:
odd night cop, gunsmith, vig
vs odd night roleblocker, goon, goon
Here:
jailkeeper, odd night cop, even night gunsmith, heavily nerfed bodyguard (can't swap targets, and asceticizes the pair if he picks wrong)
vs half a godfather, encryptor, vanilla cop (useful to find those PRs you need to kill)
In terms of mini normal balance, that's pretty much fine. I might question a bit whether odd and even cop + jailkeeper settings are just generally OP for town compared to how they get balanced, but it is in no way is MORE townsided than similar setups that have been approved in the past. "Cop can claim d1 without consequence" isn't entirely true, and it's even more true that the jailkeeper is pretty hosed if he claims d1 since only the symbiotic can save him.
Cop is also nerfed by being loyal (a roleblocker is obviously possible, even if there wasn't one in this setup), and gunsmith is HEAVILY nerfed by having a scum role that is a godfather to it. And, of course, both of those roles are nerfed by the possibility that symbiotic will choose wrong and attach to scum (and even there, you simply get MORE roles that look like there could be a roleblocker action going on). I think that this setup is fine for MS balance, and would probably approve it again. MS balance is such that towns NEED a lot of power to be competitive. Sometimes that results in town stomps, but bulk majority of the time it simply doesn't.
Moderator: Fro99er
Current Update: Town Win
Playerlist
Malakittens, Town Jailkeeper, survived
ika, Mafia Goon, lynched day 5
Metal Sonic, Town Even-Night Gunsmith, survived
shaddowez, Town Ascetic Odd-Night Cop, survived
AxleGreaser, Vanilla Townie, survived
BlueBloodedToffee replaced Dizzle, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 3
Shiro, Mafia Goon, lynched day 2
Scorpious replaced Ciara24, Vanilla Townie, survived
notscience, Vanilla Townie, survived
zakk replaced satsujin, Town Backup Role Cop, lynched day 4
MaxwellPuckett replaced Nosferatu, Mafia Encryptor, lynched day 1
pistachi0n replaced VeeGee, Vanilla Townie, survived
singersigner, Vanilla Townie, survived
Spoiler:
Mini 1861: Musical Mafia
Moderator: Gamma Emerald
Current Update: Game Over [Awaiting Archiving]
Player list
Io, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 1
Dierfire replaced Elhabe21, Vanilla Townie, survived
HellloooNewman, Town Odd-Night Cop, killed night 1
Blackvoid replaced MiniDeathStar, Vanilla Townie, killed night 3
Kairal, Vanilla Townie, survived
Flubbernugget, Mafia Goon, lynched day 5
I Am Innocent, Vanilla Townie, survived
Secret Agent Jin, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 2
Naomi-Tan ShadowStep replaced Cloudkicker, Vanilla Townie, survived
-Grey-, Town Jailkeeper, killed night 2
culted, Mafia Goon, lynched day 4
massive, Town Even-Night Cop, killed night 4
Aj The Epic, Mafia Role Cop, lynched day 3
Mini Normal 1919
Moderator: ThinkBig
Current Update: Game Over [Awaiting Archiving]
Player List:
SergTacos, Vanilla Townie, killed night 2
Klazam, Vanilla Townie, survived
Trivium, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 2
Umlaut replaced Boonskiies, Town Odd-Night Cop, lynched day 4
TwoFace, Vanilla Townie, killed night 4
Empiricus, Vanilla Townie, survived
Mulch, Vanilla Townie, survived
Carcalilly, Mafia Odd-Night Roleblocker, killed night 1
Tchill13, Mafia Goon, lynched day 1
Fykus, Mafia Goon, lynched day 5
Branson, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 3
Vedith replaced shuffleplay, Town Vigilante, killed night 1
Dunkerdoodles, Town Gunsmith, killed night 3
Moderator: Gamma Emerald
Current Update: Game Over [Awaiting Archiving]
Player list
Io, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 1
Dierfire replaced Elhabe21, Vanilla Townie, survived
HellloooNewman, Town Odd-Night Cop, killed night 1
Blackvoid replaced MiniDeathStar, Vanilla Townie, killed night 3
Kairal, Vanilla Townie, survived
Flubbernugget, Mafia Goon, lynched day 5
I Am Innocent, Vanilla Townie, survived
Secret Agent Jin, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 2
Naomi-Tan ShadowStep replaced Cloudkicker, Vanilla Townie, survived
-Grey-, Town Jailkeeper, killed night 2
culted, Mafia Goon, lynched day 4
massive, Town Even-Night Cop, killed night 4
Aj The Epic, Mafia Role Cop, lynched day 3
Mini Normal 1919
Moderator: ThinkBig
Current Update: Game Over [Awaiting Archiving]
Player List:
SergTacos, Vanilla Townie, killed night 2
Klazam, Vanilla Townie, survived
Trivium, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 2
Umlaut replaced Boonskiies, Town Odd-Night Cop, lynched day 4
TwoFace, Vanilla Townie, killed night 4
Empiricus, Vanilla Townie, survived
Mulch, Vanilla Townie, survived
Carcalilly, Mafia Odd-Night Roleblocker, killed night 1
Tchill13, Mafia Goon, lynched day 1
Fykus, Mafia Goon, lynched day 5
Branson, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 3
Vedith replaced shuffleplay, Town Vigilante, killed night 1
Dunkerdoodles, Town Gunsmith, killed night 3
Three times you've had something similar to the odd night cop, even night GS mechanic:
1707:
Jailkepeer, Ascetic odd night cop, even night gs, backup rolecop (troll role)
vs goon, goon, encryptor
1861:
Jailkeeper, Odd night cop, even night cop
vs role cop, goon, goon
1919:
odd night cop, gunsmith, vig
vs odd night roleblocker, goon, goon
Here:
jailkeeper, odd night cop, even night gunsmith, heavily nerfed bodyguard (can't swap targets, and asceticizes the pair if he picks wrong)
vs half a godfather, encryptor, vanilla cop (useful to find those PRs you need to kill)
In terms of mini normal balance, that's pretty much fine. I might question a bit whether odd and even cop + jailkeeper settings are just generally OP for town compared to how they get balanced, but it is in no way is MORE townsided than similar setups that have been approved in the past. "Cop can claim d1 without consequence" isn't entirely true, and it's even more true that the jailkeeper is pretty hosed if he claims d1 since only the symbiotic can save him.
Cop is also nerfed by being loyal (a roleblocker is obviously possible, even if there wasn't one in this setup), and gunsmith is HEAVILY nerfed by having a scum role that is a godfather to it. And, of course, both of those roles are nerfed by the possibility that symbiotic will choose wrong and attach to scum (and even there, you simply get MORE roles that look like there could be a roleblocker action going on). I think that this setup is fine for MS balance, and would probably approve it again. MS balance is such that towns NEED a lot of power to be competitive. Sometimes that results in town stomps, but bulk majority of the time it simply doesn't.