Mini Normal 1931 | Endgame

[skitter30]

Hi Paul! Hi Eddie! Hi Dunker!

Hi everyone I don't know!

VOTE: Paul for being in like all of my games <3

@mod/everyone: always v/la on Shabbat and Jewish holidays!

[skitter30]

DAMN I WANTED TO BE FIRST

Hi dunkers! Hi skitters!

Quick question for you. Are you purposely stalking and signing up for the same games as me?

VOTE: Skitters

Nope! We're in the same games, so they end at the same time, so we sign up at the same time Still wanna hydra with you at some point!

[skitter30]

please unvote. Skittles is town.

K, how are you so certain of that right now?

[skitter30]

Hi Paul! Hi Eddie! Hi Dunker!

Hi everyone I don't know!

VOTE: Paul for being in like all of my games <3

@mod/everyone: always v/la on Shabbat and Jewish holidays!

I've been in all your games as well (either as a player or as a mod) why did you choose to vote Paul over me?

Yes, I know lol. I wasn't sure if you wanted me to tell everyone you were an alt, since you signed up under this account instead of your main. That's why you didn't get a nice greeting

And after you, I've played with Paul the most.

[skitter30]

Well, you hadn't posted at that point, so I didn't see it

[skitter30]

I kinda want to go back to my Dunkerdoodles vote here.

except i'm town as confirmed by rb

VOTE: Dunkerdoodles
You're approaching this entire thing way too awkwardly. Instead of helping rb and making reads / generating reactions, you're just sitting back and agreeing with everything he says. I get that this isn't entirely serious, but it's also not what I'd expect from town.

pedit:

So, I kinda agree with you and disliked 45 for Dunker's blatant sheeping of RB and for just listening to everything he says, except that he did the exact same thing in our last game and I deathtunneled him for it to the point where I almost got him lynched; he was a PR and got saved at the last minute by his claim. So, since I know that I have trouble reading him specifically, and that I made a mistake reading him last time for a very similar post, I'm going to be a bit more cautious this time around and wait for more content before I form an opinion.

[skitter30]

please unvote. Skittles is town.

K, how are you so certain of that right now?

Towny reaction.

VOTE: Perfect Fifth

Non-RVS

This is scum

Sheep me to victory thx

K, why?

And how certain are you about your other proclamations regarding people's alignment? Are they RVS jokes, statements you're making to look for reactions, or do you actually mean them?

[skitter30]

Dunker's fine, some players are just like that. Not sure why Ausuka tried to make such a big deal out of it. That's why I asked if she was experienced.

I know, and it's hard for me to read those types of players. That's why I'm trying to be cautious.

[skitter30]

let's have more votes for perfect filth

this is the optimal town strategy

K, you're going to have to explain why if you want me to follow you here.

[skitter30]

@skitter30/wavemode: It

could

simply be a matter of personality or playstyle, in that Dunker is choosing to sit back in the early-game. However, I feel like him abandoning his (presumably serious?) vote immediately to help rb is somewhat suspicious, and posts afterwards like 61 make me feel like he's trying to get on rb's good side. It's weak, but right now, I don't have anything better.

I feel like I understand where Sunlit's coming on so I'm giving her a tentative townread.

@Unabombah; This game follows the Normal Guidelines that you can find on this wiki page.

I know, and I'm getting the same vibe as you, except he did the exact same thing in our previous game and he was town. And since I know I have trouble reading him, and I wrongly scumread him for dong the exact same thing as he did here, I'd rather wait for more content before I try to read him.

[skitter30]

rb can be town for now.

VOTE: Ausuka

Is this a serious vote? Cuz she's like the one person I have a townlean on atm.

[skitter30]

Explain your townlean on Ausuka

Because I like 70 and 90; they seem like she's trying to understand the motivation behind Dunker's posts and is thus trying to sort him.

[skitter30]

u can lean on me

Is this directed at me? Cuz I dunno what you mean by this.

[skitter30]

oh wow that's thinkbig

might have to rethink this

but probably still scum

so you think he's scum crumbing PR for towncred?

ya

it's just rly lazy + shitty play

and if he's actual a powerful PR that was by far the most worstest thing to do

im fine with the lynch

I'm kinda conflicted on PF's crumbing post.

If he's a PR, I dunno exactly why he decided to crumb here? He was under some pressure from you, but he wasn't exactly in danger of being lynched right then. Except this is a thing that I know he's done before.

If he's scum, well, he certainly achieved his goal of WIFOM, but the post is under quite a lot scrutiny, and I dunno if he would want to start the game off by drawing obvious attention to himself via bold-faced lie.

I don't think I'm supporting a lynch here right now, since I think he might, you know, actually be a PR.

[skitter30]

@Sunlit: What are your thoughts on rb right now?

[skitter30]

@Mod: v/la until Thursday

[skitter30]

Yay I'm back. I think I'm only current up to like page 7, so let me read before I do stuff.

[skitter30]

(Apologies in advance, I have a tendency to wall).

I would like to point out I called leaf dude town with no reasoning and his wagon died. wow. I'm good.

Yeah, reading through this kinda confused me.

I'm a) uncertain where the wagon came from and b) uncertain how it dissipated so fast.

Rb starts (138) it by declaring FL to be scum. However, he declared like four other people to be scum within the first few pages, so I'm not sure why this push gained more traction?

FL then votes for himself (140). Uh, why exactly? It's anti-town to vote for yourself. I know it's a thing that people do, but I never really understood why. You were on your own wagon when it got to L-1 ffs. If you're scum, thanks for helping us almost-lynch you? And if you're town, what the heck are you doing being the second vote on your own L-1 wagon? I don't really see any motivation for him doing this as either alignment. And I just checked the latest vote count . . . and he's still voting for himself. It looks like he hasn't checked the thread since then, tbh.

Please unvote. And your thoughts on your wagon would be appreciated.

Not sure why Eddie voted, tbh. (159). Wait, continued reading. He's doing it for reactions (171).

I dislike Thor's vote (182). He says he wants to lynch FL in order to give us stuff to analyze. It seems like he's willing to vote FL regardless of his alignment in order to generate those reactions. Why not vote for someone you think is actually scummy instead of voting for the sake of having a speedlynch?

Ausuka's vote (184). Seems like she's voting here because there happens to be a wagon there. She did say she had planned to vote earlier (between Eddie and Thor), though, and I agree that the self-vote was awkward and that FL's major contributions (130, 131, 151) are kinda flat.

I'm a little bit uncertain about Unabomba's vote. I can understand why he doesn't like 130 or the self-vote, but since he said

For example, Flavor Leafs reaction pinged me as forced, but I dont automatically shoot my vote there.

I'm not sure why he suddenly decided he was OK with placing FL at L-1? The only post Fl made in between is 179, and I don't see why that would be enough to change your opinion?

Eddie fake-hammers via a revote (191), and then declares FL to be probably town (210), and then switches his vote to . . . himself (221)). ??? I know he self-votes, so I'm not reading too much into that. What I'm confused with here is why Eddie suddenly declared FL to be town despite voting (and fake-hammering via revote) him earlier, especially when FL didn't interact with anyone between Eddie's original vote on FL and Eddie's fake-hammer and Eddie's self-vote.

Dunker hops on with a naked vote. (228). Wow, so much reasoning here. I wish people would, like, explain why they're voting people.

Wavemode declares FL to be a mislynch (229). Um, why are you so sure here? This, in conjunction with 238 kinda make it seem like you know he's town? Why exactly do you think FL is so useful here? FL is kinda null to me. He made a couple observations (130, 131, 151) and self-voted, which is at best anti-town, especially since he was on his own L-1 wagon. Since it doesn't look like he's actually checked the thread since then, being on his own wagon is NAI to me atm. However, his comments were relatively shallow and would be easy for scum to fake. I haven't seen enough from him to actually justify lynching him, but I don't see anything here that screams town to me either.

And then the wagon dies for reasons that I don't fully understand.

rb moves to Sunlit Diamond, and a bunch of people follow him. Again. I'm kinda surprised that so many people are following him tbh. He throws out reads with little reasoning or explanation, and he seems to have a bunch of followers with every new vote he makes. I need to go through this later to see if there's any interesting patterns here; kinda seems like scum might be exploiting his pushes with how quickly these wagons seem to be building.

I'm not finished catching up yet, will continue later today.

P-edit: FL showed up while I was writing this lol. Yeah, it looks like he hadn't actually read the thread between now and then.

[skitter30]

Skitter is ur vote on me serious?

No. It was RVS, and the game took off while I was getting lost on the highways of New Jersey, and I wasn't really following for the last two days.

UNVOTE:

Want to finish catching up before I decide where I'm voting.

[skitter30]

So you don't think it could be a TvT situation?

I doubt it is. doesn't matter because thor is scum anywyas.

Assume I've only skimmed the last eight pages (I'm planning on finishing tonight). But since the hot topic right now is Thor, tell me why I should vote him.

[skitter30]

Eddie, you asked me for my vote earlier, so I'm trying to find out why.

And I play more from the perspective of 'null until I have a reason to townread or scumread' someone.

K, let me read the last eight pages when I get home and I'll see what I think.

[skitter30]

K, I just read through the Thor/Eddie thing. Thor is obvtown (albeit a tad abrasive) and I have no idea why people are scumreading him or voting him.

I think their whole spat was Eddie misreading Thor's posts, which stemmed from not realizing Thor was linking to his profile, and not to a wiki page about a scumtell as Eddie seems to believe.

Spoiler:

"thor is getting scumread for following the wiki"
Y'know, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE MY PERFECT PLAN TO GET TOWN READ FAILED

Thor legit wrote the articles he quoted. He's playing the town strategy that he espoused years ago. He wasn't complaining that he was getting scumread for following the wiki. He was complaining that he was getting scumread for playing the way he believes town should play, as seen by the fact that he actually took the time to write a wiki article on the subject.

my first claim is that only wiki tells matter according to thor. as you see in 445, I bring up the very reasonable point; I said that the wiki is not the only way to scum hunt. then, in 447, we see thors reply; "by that logic every post is scummy". aka, I said that things can be scummy that aren't wiki tells, and his reply is that everything can be scummy in thst case. aka, omgus, use wiki tells newb.

Again, you're not actually listening to what he said. Your first claim is that 'wiki tells matter according to Thor'. This claim is unfounded; Thor never said that. Yes, I agree that wiki tells are not the only way to scumhunt, but Thor was linking articles that he wrote describing what he believes to be pro-town and anti-town behavior. He wasn't advocating that we should be following linked wiki tells or anything.

stop scumreading me. this is fun! earlier in this thread, thor said, paraphrased, "I cannot fathom how anyone could scumread me". lol. moving on, tho, 409 and 446 both basically just omgus and call myself and rb bad for scumreading thor. he attacks the users, as opposed to the premise.

There is no OMGUS in 409, and he doesn't call anyone bad in that post. And while he does get rudely frustrated with you two in 446, he doesn't actually scumread you anywhere as far as I can tell. In fact, in 464, he indicates that he

doesn't

think you're scum.

the cool one. vote on the wagon I want you to. this is along with the top of 409 saying he is voting the largest wagon. and, in 405, he tells us to consolidate on a wagon. he basically just used a work around to convince us to sheep him. calling it a "secondary scum read" is utter bullshit, considering it's who you're voting and those words are meaningless. this isn't even subtle, he's just telling us to sheep him.

??? He's doing exactly what he said he's doing - he's voting for his scumread, and said that instead of voting for their main read, people should try to consolidate on a secondary read so that we can use the time we have productively. Like, he doesn't want a lynch at deadline, which I totally get because those tend to be panic-fueled and often lead to people making hasty decisions under pressure. He wants us to try to consolidate a wagon *now* instead. As far as I can tell, he isn't actually even pushing anyone to vote *his* wagon. So I dunno why you're accusing him of asking people to sheep him.

I don't actually think you're intentionally misrepping him. I think you just didn't understand what he was trying to say and that you two were having two different conversations.

So, no, I am not voting Thor with you.

[skitter30]

I'm not sure yet. I'm catching up by topic, and the next thing I'm tackling is the you/SD/Ausuka debate.

[skitter30]

K, I just read through the Thor/Eddie thing. Thor is obvtown (albeit a tad abrasive) and I have no idea why people are scumreading him or voting him.

I think their whole spat was Eddie misreading Thor's posts, which stemmed from not realizing Thor was linking to his profile, and not to a wiki page about a scumtell as Eddie seems to believe.

Spoiler:

"thor is getting scumread for following the wiki"
Y'know, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE MY PERFECT PLAN TO GET TOWN READ FAILED

Thor legit wrote the articles he quoted. He's playing the town strategy that he espoused years ago. He wasn't complaining that he was getting scumread for following the wiki. He was complaining that he was getting scumread for playing the way he believes town should play, as seen by the fact that he actually took the time to write a wiki article on the subject.

my first claim is that only wiki tells matter according to thor. as you see in 445, I bring up the very reasonable point; I said that the wiki is not the only way to scum hunt. then, in 447, we see thors reply; "by that logic every post is scummy". aka, I said that things can be scummy that aren't wiki tells, and his reply is that everything can be scummy in thst case. aka, omgus, use wiki tells newb.

Again, you're not actually listening to what he said. Your first claim is that 'wiki tells matter according to Thor'. This claim is unfounded; Thor never said that. Yes, I agree that wiki tells are not the only way to scumhunt, but Thor was linking articles that he wrote describing what he believes to be pro-town and anti-town behavior. He wasn't advocating that we should be following linked wiki tells or anything.

stop scumreading me. this is fun! earlier in this thread, thor said, paraphrased, "I cannot fathom how anyone could scumread me". lol. moving on, tho, 409 and 446 both basically just omgus and call myself and rb bad for scumreading thor. he attacks the users, as opposed to the premise.

There is no OMGUS in 409, and he doesn't call anyone bad in that post. And while he does get rudely frustrated with you two in 446, he doesn't actually scumread you anywhere as far as I can tell. In fact, in 464, he indicates that he

doesn't

think you're scum.

the cool one. vote on the wagon I want you to. this is along with the top of 409 saying he is voting the largest wagon. and, in 405, he tells us to consolidate on a wagon. he basically just used a work around to convince us to sheep him. calling it a "secondary scum read" is utter bullshit, considering it's who you're voting and those words are meaningless. this isn't even subtle, he's just telling us to sheep him.

??? He's doing exactly what he said he's doing - he's voting for his scumread, and said that instead of voting for their main read, people should try to consolidate on a secondary read so that we can use the time we have productively. Like, he doesn't want a lynch at deadline, which I totally get because those tend to be panic-fueled and often lead to people making hasty decisions under pressure. He wants us to try to consolidate a wagon *now* instead. As far as I can tell, he isn't actually even pushing anyone to vote *his* wagon. So I dunno why you're accusing him of asking people to sheep him.

I don't actually think you're intentionally misrepping him. I think you just didn't understand what he was trying to say and that you two were having two different conversations.

So, no, I am not voting Thor with you.

what if I am intentionally misrepping him?

Then I'm more likely to think that you're scum trying to drive a mislynch. I'm pretty sure that isn't what I'm seeing here though. It looks like the two of you were talking past each other instead of with each other.

ausuka is gonna be today's lynch btw

Why are you voting Thor then?

[skitter30]

because thor is scum

Why though? Your entire case on him seems to be based on you misreading/misunderstanding his posts. I don't get it.

Do you think a Thor lynch is happening today?

[skitter30]

Firstly, I just want to say that is one of the strangest posts I've ever read in a forum mafia game, and I'm including the time a guy on my homesite wrote a post inspired by Book of Mormon's 'Hello' inviting us to join the Cult of Cthulhu.

I was under the impression that 476 was your case against him. So, do you think he's scum, or are you still trying to sort him? Cuz if I'm understanding your metaphor correctly, you're still trying to sort him. (From the 'if my food proves it's worthy of joining my pack it can live' bit)

I also find it strange that you're still sitting on the Thor wagon if you think it's unlikely to take off. Like, if you think Ausuka is scum too, why are you not voting for her when there seems to be a lot of traction there? And if you think he's scum, why aren't you trying to get him lynched? (I think that's what you mean by 'I haven't tried to serve donkey today', that you haven't made a steadfast effort to get him lynched.)

(If I"m misinterpreting your metaphor, let me know, cuz I'm not entirely sure I translated it into mafia correctly).

[skitter30]

@Eddie: I'm becoming a bit concerned with your posting over the last page or so. Can you please address the points I raised in 547?

@Ciara: It kinda feels like you're active lurking, tbh. Why is Eddie so high on your list? If you're good with lynching Ausuka, why are you not voting there?

@Thor: I'm starting to become a bit concerned about TB as well. I know softing PRs is a thing he does as town, but I've also read enough of his scumgames to know that he has a strong tendency to lurk as scum. And besides for his RVS banter with me, and the PR soft, he hasn't said anything all game, and certainly nothing of substance.

I still have to do the Ausuka/SD/wave thing, but I'm going back to work today. I'll try to do it after work before Shabbat, but if it doesn't happen then, it's going to have to wait until tomorrow night.

P-edit: I think he means feeling better about me means he feels better about the Ausuka lynch. But I could have read that wrong. Thor, can you elaborate?

[skitter30]

@Eddie: I'm becoming a bit concerned with your posting over the last page or so. Can you please address the points I raised in 547?

@Ciara: It kinda feels like you're active lurking, tbh. Why is Eddie so high on your list? If you're good with lynching Ausuka, why are you not voting there?

@Thor: I'm starting to become a bit concerned about TB as well. I know softing PRs is a thing he does as town, but I've also read enough of his scumgames to know that he has a strong tendency to lurk as scum. And besides for his RVS banter with me, and the PR soft, he hasn't said anything all game, and certainly nothing of substance.

I still have to do the Ausuka/SD/wave thing, but I'm going back to work today. I'll try to do it after work before Shabbat, but if it doesn't happen then, it's going to have to wait until tomorrow night.

P-edit: I think he means feeling better about me means he feels better about the Ausuka lynch. But I could have read that wrong. Thor, can you elaborate?

VOTE: Ausaka

I don't feel like Eddie is scum, even though his interaction with Thor was a bit weird. I'm not great at reading players who post a lot though, especially when some of it seems like it could be jokes, so Eddie and rb fall into that bracket for me.

It's a little bit strange that you're putting Eddie/rb so high when you feel like you have difficulty reading them . . .

[skitter30]

hi i am ausuka
ausuka was a failed experiment in which i
a) tried to post less and edited my posts heavily to achieve this
b) tried to use logic and disregard my tonereads because i wanted to play more logically/in a way that could be explained

this didn't work so well which i guess is kinda obvious in hindsight

this game probably deserves better so from now on i am acting normally

posts incoming

Huh. Would not have guessed. K, going to have to reread everything with this in mind.

[skitter30]

K, the Thor/Eddie thing is beginning to get annoying. Thor is still town, despite the lovely language and imagery he's been using. Eddie has become ???? cuz I can't figure out what he's doing. I dunno if he's just stubbornly sticking with a read despite being shown multiple times that he's misread Thor's posts because he doesn't want to back down, or if he's sticking to his guns because he thinks if he's persistent enough he'll be able to push through a mislynch, or if he's doing it for some other inscrutable reason that I just cannot fathom.

I really can't tell what's going on with him. The fact that he's ignoring my questions isn't exactly inspiring confidence in him atm, and is also making it hard for me to figure out what his intentions are.

[skitter30]

because in previous games I have had a tendency to scum read people who's playstyles I don't understand, and I'm actively trying to avoid that now by forcing myself to read their posts as coming from a town perspective, at least initially in the game. It's a bit of a flaw in how I scumhunt, admittedly, but I'm working on it.

Uh, what?

You don't understand their playstyle, so you're forcing yourself to see it from a town perspective? So you're artificially creating townreads on people because you know you have difficulty reading them? This solves the problem how exactly?

And when are you going to start actually analyzing their posts ('at least initially in the game') in order to try to sort them instead of just lumping them in your townpile?

[skitter30]

Yay, I'm back.

Hi Mulch!

Working backwards, cuz the game exploded while I was gone.

Im a little wary of skitters rn as she isnt as aggressive as her town game normally is but its also only page 8. The thing is, her town and scum games are annoyingly similar except for how aggressive she is.

I don't like this part

if that was from scum it would be called out by town skitters. could be partner interaction but based on how many other scummy ducks there are itg I doubt it lol. but, we can take that early ass post and make it useful

Paul, what is your experience with skitters?
skitters, what do you make of that line mulch pointed out?

We played both our newbies together. He was town in both, and I was scum in the first, and I was town in the second. We've talked about the difference in my game a lot in the towngame (Newbie 1797), and I know this is precisely how he sees my games, so I didn't feel the need to talk about it again.

[skitter30]

Unless by meta he is

pretty much. he's awkward, but that's normal. in a game of his he was motion detector (town), idled n1 and targeted a claimed conf town pr n2. he's not necessarily bad, but he's new and I attribute the awkwardness to that. in the ~3 games of his I've seen he's been like this.

what makes you scumread him?

Yeah, this is him so far. I've never played with scum!Paul, but this is pretty much what he sounds like in his towngames.

[skitter30]

hey skitter, after our micro what are your thoughts on on?

His emotions remind me as scum. He has akward phrasing. His posts in the beginning felt fake solvy then he just goes into deathtunnel mode.


I would vote Skittles or TB tho

Skittles just played in a game with me and it was one of my best games ever, I can link it if you want. i am curios how they decide to move forward after that. tb is probably scum but ik they're also legitimately busy and that isn't b.s. so id rather give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

I was able to pin you as town there pretty early (You and esires were like the only two people I wouldn't dayvig), and I pretty much stuck with that throughout the whole game, although during the night I started to get worried that you had pocketed me (I said a bunch of times that I knew I got pocketed, but I couldn't tell who did it), but then you died, so there's that.

Like, despite your shitposting and general posting style, which are in general hard for me to read, I could see legitimate attempts to solve the game, and I liked how you used meta to explain your reads on Vedith and Hiraki. Your early Vedith read is basically what sold me on town!Vedith despite everything stupid he did after, and your post analyzing Hiraki *before* I got wagoned basically sold me on my townread of you.

Here I was having more trouble reading you because your whole spat with Thor was kinda confusing to me. Like, it was pretty obvious to me that you had misread his posts, but you very stubbornly stuck to your guns and said that he was scum despite that. That's why I labeled you ???? cuz I wasn't sure exactly what I was seeing. Like, I could tell you were doing *something*, but I couldn't tell what.

anyways, game. what about thor makes you scumread him? I haven't made a case, just created the content needed for one, and I am not satisfied he's scum to the point I want to death tunnel him. maybe you'll sell me.

So, this makes sense to me. You were doing it to get reactions. This is a thing I know you do, but that wasn't how I initially read your overblown three page argument with him. I didn't know *how* to read it, tbh, so I couldn't figure out how I was supposed to use it to read you. (And I now think this is what you were trying to say with the donkey/lion metaphor earlier lol). This is making me feel a lot better about you, tbh, because the whole Thor thing seems to have stemmed from a town!oriented mindset: you were trying to get reactions to analyze.

[skitter30]

He hasn't like said anything, which is kinda worrying me. I've only played with him once, and I know he softs (badly, no offense) as a PR. But I've read enough of his games to know that he lurks badly as scum. He hasn't had like any content, but he seems to have been paying enough attention to unvote MM as soon as PenguinPower confirmed Ausuka as Mario. So, scumleaning for now. Want more content from him, but if he, like, doesn't show up soon, I'm fine with lynching him, cuz he seems to be purposefully avoiding the game.

[skitter30]

K, why?

Why are you scumreading me exactly? I know that you were right in that micro, but since you're wrong here, I kinda want to know what you're thinking.

P-edit: I can't exactly exactly keep up with how fast you post lol. G'night!

[skitter30]

Replace me please

Sorry Penguin. I love you but I just don't have the time necessary to dedicate myself to this game. I'm moving next week and will have limited internet access over the next few days. It's best if someone else takes my slot.

One of these games we'll play together

Good luck with the move!

[skitter30]

really? i got the impression you might vig me initially. thats explicitly why I said make sure to get a claim; I could reveal as ic if necessary. you didn't town read me early game, afaik.

I responded over there. If you think it's relevant to this game, I'll repeat it here, but I think that bit is more about that game than this one.

[skitter30]

This gutreads me that you and him are scum partners

Or I knew he legit signed up to play with me so I'm disappointed that he had to replace out?

[skitter30]

? We signed up to play together, and I'm disappointed that he had to leave. I don't get what you're getting at.

[skitter30]

Um, yeah. I don't really get what you're trying to say here. You're saying you scumread me for being disappointed that I'm not really playing with TB when we signed up to play together? And that since I said that, he must be town? What does this even mean?

[skitter30]

K, but that's a legit stupid reason to have a gutread on me. I would say the exact same thing as scum. I always try to greet replacements, and I say goodbye to people that I know who had to replace out/got killed/got lynched.

This is stupid.

[skitter30]

I thought he was town the first time he had an argument with Eddie. He seemed to be getting legitimately angry over Eddie misrepping him. Like, he's playing the game exactly the way he espoused years ago, and Eddie misunderstanding him made him angry. (454)

And I liked the way he was approaching the game - the questions he was asking made sense to me. Like 192. He seemed to be approaching the game via trying to find inconsistencies between various players. And I like this because he seems to be trying to find motivation between why a player will treat one player one way but another player another.

I've only skimmed rounds 2 and 3 (maybe 4 as well?) of the argument, since they seem to be going around in circles and getting into a ridiculous argument that didn't actually seem to advance the game at all.

P-edit: I'm working on it. I like to back up what I'm saying with posts/quotes, and I can't really post nearly as fast as you. And since you seem to be thinking that I'm spending this time in scumchat, I can link you to towngames where I take my time answering as well ffs.

[skitter30]

Because he seemed to have gotten angry over Eddie not believing that he's playing to his own town meta, the one that he played years ago.

I could be wrong. I'm not good with AtE, like at all (ask Paul if you like), but that's the vibe I'm getting.

[skitter30]

Uh, what? Why exactly?

[skitter30]

Cuz I can't tell yet if I think you're scum or not, especially after the last few pages.

I think the Thor thing might also be a playstyle thing. He plays kinda similarly to me (minus the random tunneling anger fueled arguments) and thinks kinda similarly to me, so it's easier for me to figure out what he's doing.

I have a lot more trouble reading people like you and rb and eddie cuz you're not explaining things or are using things like 'gutreads' that I have a lot of trouble following. Like, I can't tell if you just made that up, or if you actually believe that. And I need more time to process what you're saying, cuz I don't naturally play this fast. And I usually only vote when I'm *very* certain I'm on to something.

P-edit: Paul, you've done the exact same thing lol.

P-edit: Yeah, and that doesn't bother me as much as when people mess up the pronoun. Still 'she', Eddie.

[skitter30]

WAIT WHAT WHEN DID I CALL U SKITTLES

Huh, you actually didn't. I just ISO'd all of our games together, and I thought I'd seen you doing that before lol. People do it all the time, but it doesn't bother me. The pronoun thing really bugs me though.

AtE does get to skitters

*cough* esires *cough*

Yeah, it does. And Eddie knows I did the same thing in the micro with Hiraki's replace out. So I do know that I have trouble with AtE, but the vibe I was getting from Thor was frustrated!town cuz he felt like he was getting annoyed with Eddie for not seeing he felt he was playing exactly to his town meta.

[skitter30]

K, elaborate on why that reaction from MM is scummy.

[skitter30]

Oh ffs. Mulch was at least able to articulate his gutread and explain why he thought what I did was scummy. You can't seem to elaborate, and are just proclaiming MM's reaction from the last few pages to be scummy, and are willfully evading my attempts to get you to explain why.

Like, if you can't or won't tell me why, how do I know you're not just making it up?

[skitter30]

You're not exactly doing a good job of convincing me of scum!MM here. And I dislike the fact that you aren't really engaging with me.

And of course Ausuka was un-MM-like. That was the whole point of the alt. What 'glimpses' are you seeing now that are making you think MM is acting out of character?

[skitter30]

Me or wavemode? And I dunno what you mean when you say tone.

[skitter30]

Mulch is hard to read but I'm pretty sure Ciara was town

I'm pretty sure Ciara was scum. Yeah, Mulch is hard to read, but I think he's scum too.

@FL too:

Spoiler:

Skitter's 565
I don't know what I feel about this. Kind of feels like scum overcompensating with questions.

@Ciara: It kinda feels like you're active lurking, tbh. Why is Eddie so high on your list? If you're good with lynching Ausuka, why are you not voting there?

(I'll get to the rest of your stuff after this):

Those are exactly the sort of questions I ask when I'm trying to figure out people's motivations. I was having trouble understanding the Thor/Eddie thing, so I wanted to talk to Eddie more about it, but he wasn't really responding to my questions. I explained above why I'm feeling better about him now. Ciara showed up, so I figured since we were both around I'd try to talk to her. Since I wasn't really understanding Eddie, I was hoping she'd be able to explain why she had Eddie so high. Tbh, her answer (626) was kinda weird. If you know you have trouble reading people, I don't get why you'd artificially give them townreads? Like, her reasons for townreading eddie/rb were weird and bad, and she basically admitted to making them up. And she never really tried to sort them or like anyone else for that matter. And I wanted to know why she didn't vote Ausuka/MM if she was good with lynching him. Kinda felt like she wasn't putting her money where her mouth was, like Ciara was trying to show she approved of the wagon without actually contributing to it.

And she replaced out just after I pushed her on these things.

And today Mulch was all sorts of weird, and pushed a scumread on me for BS reasons. Like having a gutread that I'm scum for saying goodbye to TB when we signed up to play together is just ridiculous. Yes, I get that it was a gutread, but since I'd have said the exact same thing to him if I were scum, that post was NAI, and deciding I had to be scum and that me and TB couldn't be partners because of that was just reachy and bad and didn't really make sense.

And I disliked how he kept on insisting that I was 'angry'. Yeah, I was

annoyed

with him. I don't really get where he got

angry

from, tbh. And by insisting that other variables are irrelevant (1153), he delegitimized any other explanation (like the fact that I was disappointed that I didn't get to play with the dude I signed up to play with) for my goodbye post, and reduced it to somehow being supporting evidence of a BS gutread.

And I didn't really understand how MM's reaction to that whole business meant that MM was trying to save *Thor* (1152). Like, it would at least make some sort of sense to say scum!MM was trying to save scum!me, but dragging Thor into that mess kinda felt like Mulch was trying to link MM to his Thor scumread, for pretty much BS reasons as far as I can tell. How does agreeing with me about this mean that MM was trying to save *Thor*? Like, there's no connection there.

So yeah, VOTE: Mulch

[skitter30]

@FL

Spoiler: All the responses I owe you

Mulch skitters kinda stole my post again. Two newbies together and Ive seen both skitters town and scum games. She asks a lot of questions, but her town game is generally more aggressive. Im really wary of skitters' scum game, but I think I can tell the difference rn. I might be a bit overconfident though. Rn Ive got a scumlean on her because she isnt super aggressive but not quite enough to vote her because she has been quite inactive this game.

this implies the exact opposite of what mulch said her scum game was, I feel.

interesting.

Mulch thinks I fake game-solve as scum. Paul thinks I'm not as aggressive as scum than as town. I don't think these two are opposites, actually, and I think Paul is more right, tbh.

I don't know what I feel about this. Kind of feels like scum overcompensating with questions. I dissected one of his bigger posts in my 501 earlier, and I can't tell what I think of Skitter. Does anyone have any experience with Skitter that can tell me if this seems like normal behavior for town Skitter? I like to meta dive, so @Skitter, can you link me some of your games?

Those are precisely the sort of questions I ask when I'm trying to figure out people's motivations. I try really hard to not frame the questions when I ask them, cuz i sometimes accidentally tell scum what answers I'm looking for if I'm not careful. I think I explained what I was trying to get at with these questions above, but if you want more from me, let me know.

All of my on-site games:

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=71332 (Newbie 1787, scum, played with TB, Paul, MM)
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=71874 (Newbie 1797, town, modded by TB, played with Paul and Dunker)
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=72357 (Micro 724, scum, modded by TB, played with Mulch)
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=72576 (Micro 730, modded by TB, played with Eddie, ended on Saturday and overlapped with this game a bit).

And now your wall (501)
(sorry, I know it's been a while, and the game exploded since then. I've been busy).

I think I mostly agree with you about your wagon. I think that scum were taking advantage of rb's early pushes in order to create momentum for wagons that might not have otherwise taken off. I just thought it was strange that yours went to L-1 *and* dissipated within a short period of time. Like, if you're scum, why wasn't there any sort of counterwagon? I mean, one formed eventually, but it was formed by the very same people who promoted yours (ie rb and eddie). So unless they're scum bussing/distancing you (and I'm *pretty* sure Eddie is town, not 100% on rb, but he's also a townlean), it's very odd that a wagon on scum!you dissipated with very little scum interference. And if you're town, why didn't scum take advantage of the quickwagon to get a mislynch? Why did they allow another wagon to form altogether? Like the formation of your wagon was weird, and that's why I took the time to analyze it.

Eddie I was confused about because I couldn't really tell what he was doing; like he's one of those players who don't really explain himself, which makes it hard for me to understand him. But, the more I play with him, the more I realize he does random, semi-inscrutable things in order to generate reactions which he can then analyze. So, with that in mind, his role in your wagon makes sense to me.

And yeah, I thought your self-vote was awkward, cuz I think *all* self-votes are awkward. If you're town, I think it's anti-town to self-vote, and I dislike them greatly.
I also thought it was interesting that you chose to comment on the fact that I found your self-vote awkward, but neglected to respond to the fact that I thought your attempts at game-solving were kinda shallow. Like, you just kinda glossed over the fact that I was at best null-reading you for that.

I think that's everything. If I missed something, let me know.

[skitter30]

skitter, why is this town frustration from thor? as scum if someone misreps your point why would you not still get angry?

additional question - you townread the for playing to hid suggested optimal town meta. do you not believe thor, 8 years later, is capable or willing of thst as scum?

Cuz I felt like he was getting frustrated not that you were misrepping him, but that you were fundamentally misunderstanding his town!playstyle. I wasn't townreading him because he was playing to his town meta, but because he was angry that you didn't understand that he thought he was blatantly playing town!Thor.

I don't know Thor, and I've never played with him. I dunno if he's a good player or not, (Although, from his wiki, I can tell he *thinks* he's a good player lol), or how well scum!Thor can mimic town!Thor. Like, the townread wasn't because he thought he was playing optimal town!Thor, but because if that were scum!Thor, I don't think he'd get as angry that you didn't recognize his *town* playstyle.

[skitter30]

I explained why I was voting Mulch in 1292. I stuck it in a spoiler cuz people get annoyed when I wall. I probably should have labeled it something like 'why I'm voting for Mulch', but I thought the content of the spoiler was apparent from the context before the spoiler and the vote after it.

Also

@mod: V/la till late Tuesday night or maybe Wednesday. Major Jewish fast day tonight.

[skitter30]

Why I *am* voting Mulch. Just woke up lol.

[skitter30]

@wavemode: I mean, it was pretty obviously directed at you lol, but ok.

It felt like he was trying to get me lynched for BS reasons, so the push on me felt artificial, and like he was trying to conjure up a me/MM/Thor scumteam out of nothing.

[skitter30]

1. Can you repeat again why you're so sold on scum!SD?

2.

He himself said that the read was gut and didn't make logical sense so it'd be a very strange way to actually try to strategically get someone lynched.

I mean if I was scuum I would most likely have some bullshit reason I could conjure out of my pocket for why thor is scum

, but I"m town and therefore being honest that I literally don't remember why I dislike him but I remember really disliking him when I read the game

I swear if I was scum I would have some bullshit reason to say

, or I would just bring up the posts without saying I forgot lol

This feels exactly like the bolded. It was a BS push on a post that was NAI. He was finding layers of meaning in a post that didn't have them. I dunno why he's doing it to me and not to Thor, but it feels like he made it up.

3.

Furthermore, I can't really be certain mulch is wrong and that you're town so I don't know what to make of that as a third-party observer. Like, it's fine if that's your reason for wanting him dead but fmpov I can't be so sure. Does that make sense?

I get what you're saying, but I know he's wrong. And I don't want him dead because he happened to push *me*, but because the push was ridiculous and based on things that weren't there. And I also feel like you should probably have *some* sort of opinion on who's right after all of this. Like, do you agree with Mulch and think that I'm scum, which is why you disagree with me, or are you that certain in your Mulch townread that you just don't want to lynch him? Like, it kinda feels like you're trying to stay out of this debate and not give an opinion on it?

4. I have to go to work now. I'll do my best to post before the fast starts tonight, like on break/after work, but I can't make any promises. If I don't, I'll be back late tomorrow night or sometime Wednesday.

[skitter30]

K, I'm around. Reading now.

[skitter30]

FIRST

VOTE: mariomaker4

Um, Mario's like the towniest person in the game atm. Why are you voting him exactly?

[skitter30]

I go to work for a couple hours, come back, and u hammer mulch? and mulch with self hammer bullshit. sigh. you can't be as good a player as you think if the first time your lynch is a real possibility you self hammer. disappointed.

I'm like super confused by everything he did yesterday, tbh, up to and including his self-hammer.

[skitter30]

K, why? (I'm here btw and following like most of this. I'm kinda just getting distracted by writing a post looking at Thor/Sunlight atm.)

Also, Dunker, you legit just voted Paul. Why do you want to work with him?

[skitter30]

He legit just voted for you and now he wants to solve the game with you. You do realize that doesn't really make sense, right?

[skitter30]

All of that was . . . incredibly enlightening. If you like figure it out and want to talk about it, I'm around.

P-edit: I thought Thor was town yesterday, but I'm in middle of looking at him again. Give me a bit to finish looking at Thor/SD interactions.

[skitter30]

I did just attack you for having crappy reads and giving no reasoning. You're not exactly explaining what you're thinking (you didn't explain it with Paul), so I wasn't exactly expecting you to elaborate for myself either. I'm not sure where you see me trying to get you to townread me in that post.

[skitter30]

K, you're going to have to explain why.

[skitter30]

also rb ur gonna have to tell me why u aren't looking at scum Mario

rn I'm looking at wave/thor/frog/Mario for various reasons but thor is too obv scum to live

I disagree about Mario. I think he's town.

Now that Sunlit is dead and flipped town, I want to go back and see why Thor was so dead set on lynching her yesterday.

Spoiler: Thor

So Thor gets suspicious of her because she was suspicious about how fast Flavor's wagon built. (192, 198). And after that, she's suddenly the person he second-most wants to lynch. (209). And then he accuses her of being opportunistic and continues saying he supports the wagon . . . without actually voting her.

And his vote on her is a pressure vote (332) . . . which he sticks with for the rest of the game.

But despite his SD tunnel, I still think Thor is town.

Like, I come to posts like this:

We're starting to flounder around with side vanity projects - I think people should consider voting secondary or tertiary scum reads if it helps consolidate wagons.

I'd much rather get a L-1 and claim now, so we have time to discuss said claim and potentially run up another option, than to wait until five hours before deadline for a derp rush where we end up hammering without a claim.
I know this goes against site meta, but I'm a rebel.

This is ridiculously pro-town. Like, I've been part of too many games where deadline hammers are a thing, and they've tended to be on town because people are in a rush and just lynch anybody cuz they're on a deadline. Like, scum *like* deadline hammers because it forces town to make hasty, bad decisions. Like, I don't see scum going opposite site meta to push this approach towards lynching/claiming.

How am I following the wiki other than ARTICLES I MYSELF WROTE - WHICH IS CALLED FOLLOWING YOUR OWN BELIEFS?

And again, I feel like he's getting angry because he feels like eddie/rb don't understand that he feels he's playing his optimal towngame. Like, I feel like he thinks he's obviously town, and he's getting frustrated that people aren't seeing it.

Like, I just went through his ISO to re-examine him after the SD flip, and I just don't see scum!Thor, despite the weird SD thing. I hate the language he uses, and I hate the arguments he's gotten into because they distract from our primary goal of finding scum, but despite all of that, I think he's town.

And if SD died via scum and not a vig kill, I'm also confused af why scum!Thor would ever kill SD here tbh. I don't see why he would kill the person he had tunneled and was trying to mislynch.

I agree with you about wave, but this post kinda became a Thor post, so he'll get his own shortly. (And I guess I can do a Mario one too, but that isn't happening tonight. I'm not even sure I'll manage to finish wave tonight.)

I don't know how I feel about frog atm. Like, he's just kinda around and I have no opinion of him. TB had lurked, and I know that's a thing scum!TB has a tendency to do, but he was apparently moving, so yeah. frog is just null. I want to say that I want more content from him, but we're already at day2 and that slot has had like no content.

[skitter30]

@Mod: Please replace me out

Something came up today, and I'm going to be super busy IRL for the next two weeks, and I don't think I can commit as much time as I would like to this game. I don't think it's fair to everyone else for me to stay in when I know I can't give this game my best.

Apologies.

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?p=9465819#p9465819

<3

For the first half of that micro, I wrote you off as a shitposter, but as the game went on, I realized you were *doing it on purpose* to have just that effect. And then I like actually started paying attention to what you were saying <3