Mini Normal 1961 - Game Over

[Shinobi]

Hi.
I don't feel like RVSing but I look forward to playing with all of you.

[Shinobi]

Hi.
I don't feel like RVSing but I look forward to playing with all of you.

Same here.

Right on.
Do you have any alternative ideas/plans in regards to starting to play this game?

[Shinobi]

Bory answer my question please.

[Shinobi]

That Nero post on Impede isn’t bad either ftr.

[Shinobi]

Hi.
I don't feel like RVSing but I look forward to playing with all of you.

Same here.

Right on.
Do you have any alternative ideas/plans in regards to starting to play this game?

I don't like voting/ accusing peaple whisout any proofs or indications from my character so I don't want to join RVing.

I haven't saw any other game openings and can't think up samething either. If you know a page which discuss about other alternatives, I am eager to take a look at it.

No, I get it - some people don’t like RVS and that’s fine. I also don’t think there’s a page of the game that people have posted plans, which is also fine.

What I’m asking is how are you intending to go about solving this game? If you haven’t found something worth talking about, how are you intending to create the lead you want/need?

[Shinobi]

so nothing so far has been enough for you to comment on? what exactly

are

you waiting for?

I am waiting for sameone to counter his own posts or make a visible try to manipulate with samebody and I hope I will notice it.

So your whole plan is to do nothing all game?

[Shinobi]

so nothing so far has been enough for you to comment on? what exactly

are

you waiting for?

I am waiting for sameone to counter his own posts or make a visible try to manipulate with samebody and I hope I will notice it.

So your whole plan is to do nothing all game?

Time will tell.

No - this is not an acceptable answer.

What do you think about my discussion with Impede?

Why didn't you respond to this Bory?

Why are you asking me? Impede acted starangely and is sus, but thinking that sameone is scum based on his reaction on post where sameone claims scum is too much exaggerated to me.

What are your other reads? Do you have a list?

[Shinobi]

Stop saying strange.
People are either scummy or not scummy.

[Shinobi]

What does my dialect have to do with anything? If I think they are acting strange, then I think that.

Strange is meaningless - someone can be town!strange or scum!strange and it tells us nothing.
I had no idea where you stood on anyone until recently, and that's only because I'm assuming that Impede/Lapsa/Bory is your current scumteam.

[Shinobi]

Yes, strange doesn't mean scum or not. I only scumread one person so far. Strange is a way to sort people, which I'm trying to do.

Impede/Lapsa/Bory are all acting strange.

What is the point of this list then?

[Shinobi]

People are either scummy or not scummy.

I agree and disagree. Like I think most players have a tendency to look at things in kinda black and white-this is scummy/not scummy but there's still "scummy" play that is just bad play.

Sure, but you don't gum up the thread with thoughts like that unless you're pointing out that it's town being not-very-towny.

[Shinobi]

Yes, strange doesn't mean scum or not. I only scumread one person so far. Strange is a way to sort people, which I'm trying to do.

Impede/Lapsa/Bory are all acting strange.

What is the point of this list then?

Because the world isn't black or white.

This is not an answer.
What does strange mean? If it's just an empty word then why are you using it?

I have no idea why I have to press this hard for someone's opinion on people they're already talking about.

[Shinobi]

I don't think the things that you're saying are anywhere near as clear or helpful as you think they are.

[Shinobi]

Pretty sure that slot needs to be prodded/replaced.

[Shinobi]

I also don’t think there’s a page of the game that people have posted plans, which is also fine.

what do you mean by "plans"?

I was posting this in response to Bory’s second post where he talks about plans.

[Shinobi]

While I am mostly down with that readslist, could you go a bit in-depth on your townreads?

[Shinobi]

VOTE: a simple plan
I think this vote is fine. Several pages have happened and he has only commented on some irrelevant stylistic argument and hasn't seemed to evolve his reads in between way too many days of play.
I would also be open to lynching Bory because of his lack of drive in scumhunting.

@Gurgi - I get that you don't like the spammishness of some of the people posting, which I get, but what do you think of our lurkier posters?

[Shinobi]

@Gurgi - I get that you don't like the spammishness of some of the people posting, which I get, but what do you think of our lurkier posters?

The spammy posting confounds any conclusions we could draw from the lurking.

how so?

If the game is unpleasant to read, you are introducing an additional, significant variable which affects how much people want to play the game. During the week, when I come home after work, I hardly want to read through a hundred poorly thought out posts. Let me ask you this: How reliable of a read do you think you have from me, whether leaning town or scum, compared to mozamis?

I don't necessarily think that that's true - not all players are as annoyed by high-postcount players as you.
Not to mention this game is incredibly small/quiet in comparison to regular games - I don't think there's a reason you wouldn't be able to get a read on ASP or Lapsa outside of Lapsa being an unorthodox player in spite of low postcount.

And ftr, I have Lapsa as townier than mozamis.

[Shinobi]

I’m struggling to see how KO is a better lynch than ASP.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Kokichi
Your expressed reasons for your scumreads do not line up with reality.
This is L-1.

If you’re going to make a statement like this you need to back it up - otherwise it just looks terrible.
@Nero - talk to me about ASP. I’m almost 100% the dude is mafia in yet he has gotten little attention.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Kokichi
Your expressed reasons for your scumreads do not line up with reality.
This is L-1.

Wait, what? The Kokichi wagon is newbie game levels of terrible play. Why are you pushing it to L1?

@Shinobi:

I townlean you and Nero because it looks like you're trying to sort actions you find suspicious, and are ignoring the side conversations to do it. I'm a fan of not wasting time.

All that said, I don't understand your ASP scumread or the certainty with which you've made it. He's posted a grand total of three times, and one of those was today. So....your read of him seems at odds with the way you went about sorting Kokichi. What's the difference there?

KO is actually trying and has reads.
ASP is a lump and has made no effort to not be a lump. I might not agree with KO’s reads but at least he has them.

[Shinobi]

@Shinobi - I get that you have more to work with, with Kokichi, but that doesn't actually explain why you're pushing ASP over other quiet players.

It does. He only pops into the thread to defend himself and he blatantly doesn’t care about what’s going on. The only times he posts are when I’m talking about him - that’s it.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Kokichi
Your expressed reasons for your scumreads do not line up with reality.
This is L-1.

If you’re going to make a statement like this you need to back it up - otherwise it just looks terrible.
@Nero - talk to me about ASP. I’m almost 100% the dude is mafia in yet he has gotten little attention.

Wow. You got me. Nice going, dude! *sarcasm*

I’m struggling to see how KO is a better lynch than ASP.

I'm struggling to see how trying to use OMGUS and low activity as a push make me a good lynch.

QFT

Not only is your vote on me not the point of my case, but it seems absurd that you had a legitimate scumread on me on page 2 or 3 and never bothered to talk about it or push it in any shape or form.

[Shinobi]

It does. He only pops into the thread to defend himself and he blatantly doesn’t care about what’s going on. The only times he posts are when I’m talking about him - that’s it.

its a bit of a lurker push tho.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

[Shinobi]

So why aren't we lynching Kokichi Oma? What would he need to do at this point to earn more votes?

Assemble being on his wagon shut momentum down quite a bit.
Mediocre votes have a way of doing that.

[Shinobi]

This Impede wagon is stupid too.
What did Nero even post to warrant people hopping on it?

[Shinobi]

I'm starting to like this Impede wagon, and I dislike the high and mighty "I hope you're ready to get scumread..." in 237. Classic Scumstrat.

VOTE: Impede

What is this "classic scumstrat" you speak of?

[Shinobi]

Transcend what are you doing, exactly?

[Shinobi]

Shinobi is vanity voting

:Lethink:

This would imply that you have a reason to not vote ASP.
Speaking of which, I'd appreciate it if you looked into him more than saying "his avatar is nice" because your posting thus far has been lackluster.

Pedit: Nevermind, go back to being Bory and doing/saying nothing, thanks.

[Shinobi]

Transcend is confirmed mafia until further notice.

Let's all abandon these wagons now and go back to lynching ASP so we can lynch Transcend afterwards.

Pedit: lol?

[Shinobi]

Transcend is confirmed mafia until further notice.

Let's all abandon these wagons now and go back to lynching ASP so we can lynch Transcend afterwards.

Pedit: lol?

Lining up lynches

:Lethinque:

You managed to use two buzzwords to completely dodge the point.
Well done.
I'm so impressed.

I'm a little weirded out by Nero's attack here as well - it seemed to have come out of nowhere and I don't particularly understand it. I'm putting him into null from my earlier townlean.

Pedit:

but real talk Shinobi, it's not like my reasons for voting impede are reasonless. So why are you trying to strongarm a not impede lynch as opposed to debating my reasons?

Honestly it's not even your reasoning that I'm attacking - it's the fact that people just kind of sheeped you after you posted some nonsense sales pitch. I remember there being reasons for Impede but the wagon really only showed up after you posted...That. I'll take another look at your case but the way people hopped on with you looked downright ridiculous.

I also believe I'm avoiding a KO lynch right now as well, so don't think it's just you I'm not following.

Ppedit: Okay I get it let me read stuff for a second jeez.

[Shinobi]

I remember talking about how that early stuff on Impede wasn't bad, though I might disagree with the point you made about him questioning anti-town play and not scumhunting being a contradiction.
The posts you came up with after that aren't useful - he does have a point about the wagon being kinda mediocre after the fact but that doesn't really dissuade that the early stuff was pretty good.

I also took a second look at his responses and kind of thought they were fine so I put him on the backburner. He basically admitted to just being kinda out there and worked on making some reads. I think he needs to post a comprehensive reads list ASAP because the day is ending and it'll probably solidify a few things.

Also, ASP is voting him for some nonexistent reason which makes that wagon hard to hop on to.

SPEAKING OF WHICH, if we're going to talk about Impede, let's talk about ASP. I don't recall you saying anything about him when he made his second vote post (which is the only one he bothered to reason out) and how mafia it is.

[Shinobi]

So I didn't really sum it up but my summary is that he's someone I'm open to lynching unless he steps up a little bit. At the very least, I'd lynch him over KO if I had to.
I think ASP needs a lot more attention than he's getting and Transcend writing him off as a vanity wagon is pissing me off.

[Shinobi]

Are you understanding it because he's agreeing with you or what else is it?

[Shinobi]

The reason those two hopped onto the wagon was seemingly because of the sales pitch.
As amusing as it was, it wasn't exactly an iron-clad case and it seems kind of incorrect to say that those two were in the right and that Impede shouldn't have called them out for it.
Then ASP came by and called him scum for calling them out.

It seems like a paper thin excuse to call someone scum because Impede calling them out made sense. What else would he have done in that situation?

[Shinobi]

I'm going to bed.
Impede or ASP explaining things would make this a lot easier.

Pedit: Yeah, maybe. I'll think it over during the day and come back later.

[Shinobi]

but then again your perspective on tis game is probably a lot more broader than mine

Tbh I'd appreciate it if you came up with some good analysis on the two of them.
If you want, KO is the only other lynch for today that's probably going to happen.

[Shinobi]

but then again your perspective on tis game is probably a lot more broader than mine

Tbh I'd appreciate it if you came up with some good analysis on the two of them.
If you want, KO is the only other lynch for today that's probably going to happen.

you acknowledge that the lynch is going to be between impede/kokichi

yet here you are still vanity voting

rofl

I thought I listed ASP as a lynch candidate.
Others are interested in him as well.

If you want to keep discussing other lynches, I think assemble has also gotten some heat.

I don’t know how I didn’t make it clear that ASP can be lynched but it should be clear now exactly who is on the table.

[Shinobi]

I agree with your bit on Sunlit but I still think that what Impede said made sense.
Regardless, I think both of them need to post right now.

[Shinobi]

And by both of them I mean Impede and ASP.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Shinobi

Why?

[Shinobi]

I agree with your bit on Sunlit but I still think that what Impede said made sense.
Regardless, I think both of them need to post right now.

Crap I was drafting a much longer response and I could've sworn I posted it. Annoying.

Anyways. By "post right now" what are you looking for exactly? I promised a readslist a couple days ago, but I still haven't gotten around to it. Need to set aside a half hour or so to do some ISOs.

Reads.
Make them.
Like, now.

[Shinobi]

If someone puts another vote on Impede I'll declare intent.
I'd rather lynch him than KO and him making more excuses about not posting reads is ridiculous at this stage.

[Shinobi]

Speaking of which, I'd appreciate it if you looked into him more than saying "his avatar is nice" because your posting thus far has been lackluster.

played with him before and the guy defines EGO. Think it's NAi for him though.

What's he like as town, then? My only experience is scum!Transcend and this seems pretty like that.

Also, Assemble responding to stuff over a week ago and then leaving looks dumb. There's just no way this many lurkers can be mafia so if some of you could step up a little bit, that'd be great.
Also also, as per my earlier statement:

Intent to hammer, claim.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: impede
We

do

need to lynch someone before the end of today guys, and deadline is in a few hours.
If impede doesn’t claim, kill him anyway. We asked him to post reads some time ago and he clearly can’t even be bothered to do that. I don’t care who hammers - just get it done.

[Shinobi]

what shall we do if he claims PR?

Depends on who's around and if he's valuable or not.
We might not be able to lynch anyone else at this point.

[Shinobi]

what shall we do if he claims PR?

if Impede does flip scum is this a buddy coaching him?

Have you actually caught someone doing this ever?
I've heard people say stuff like this and it always seems like such a stretch. I get that associatives are a big thing to jump on on MS but...I don't think so.

[Shinobi]

Is anyone around?
We have two hours.

[Shinobi]

/shrug
I have little to comment on wrt that lynch.
VOTE: asp[/vote]

I've yet to see anything relevant from this slot and today is the day where they really need to do something other than lurk about.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: asp
I should have previewed that first. Alas.

would any of you mind sharing a reason? i'm trying to be more active here and it'd get discussion going.

Quoting for emphasis. Stop throwing naked votes around and start making your logic known, please.

[Shinobi]

@northsidegal what you might not realize is that you essentially defended Shinobi in a risk free way

Hmm... Why should I vote Shinobi? Oh, I member - he's the dude being naked voted. Ain't worth bothering.

mozamis gave a read

This is bullhonkey - you haven't given a reason to suspect me so saying this doesn't hold any water because you have no way of knowing the difference wrt if she's defending me or not.

AKA stop dithering around and explain your vote, because anything you think about anything surrounding it is worthless if you can't discern whether the reasons for voting me/defending me/anythinging me are valid.

VOTE: asp
I should have previewed that first. Alas.

would any of you mind sharing a reason? i'm trying to be more active here and it'd get discussion going.

Quoting for emphasis. Stop throwing naked votes around and start making your logic known, please.

Says the person who vanity voted all of day 1 lol

Saying this is not only pointless but completely missing the point - if you have a reason to vote or not vote ASP, spit it out. This bit where you're taking potshots at me because you don't like my vote is annoying and useless when you have so little to base your logic on otherwise considering you don't have a read on him anyway.

VOTE: Assemble

This is not a terrible vote. I know you suspected him before but I'd like to ask you to post them again anyway for the sake of pushing a clear case today.

what about transcend

Plausible, but there's just no way I lynch him before players like Assemble and ASP.

[Shinobi]

Plausible, but there's just no way I lynch him before players like Assemble and ASP.

why so focused on the lurkers?

Why are you not?
Is there some kind of lurker aversion here that I wasn't aware of until just this game or what?

[Shinobi]

because you have no way of knowing the difference wrt if she's defending me or not

intentionally or not - she defended you

Doesn't matter - you haven't presented any reasoning so you can't draw any conclusions about anything because you don't know why she's doing what she's doing.
Even if she did defend me you can't glean any information from it because you can't parse her logic.

So, again, please explain your vote on me.

Plausible, but there's just no way I lynch him before players like Assemble and ASP.

why so focused on the lurkers?

Why are you not?
Is there some kind of lurker aversion here that I wasn't aware of until just this game or what?

i mean, are the lurkers your top scumreads? why do you place them at the top of your "lynch list"?

Assemble and ASP are two of my top scumreads, and I believe I explained them on day 1 but I can rehash the reasoning if you like.
Just give me some time to pull everything up.

[Shinobi]

I remember not liking that wagon yesterday but I can't remember much from him today.
I'll add it to the list of things I need to revisit tomorrow.

[Shinobi]

Assemble has such organized reads, but fails to be able to explain it.

I've already explained why I want you lynched.

Iirc you haven't explained the rest of your reads either.
Reasoning other than just hopping in and jumping on the FotM would be preferable.

what about KO?

Can you elaborate on why you want him lynched? His wagon makes me sick excluding you so I'm not really all that keen to hop on. If anything I'm even more likely to vote Assemble rather than KO and I haven't seen anything in hindsight to make me think otherwise.

[Shinobi]

you haven't presented any reasoning so you can't draw any conclusions about anything because you don't know why she's doing what she's doing.

that's just false

No, I'm pretty certain you haven't explained your read on me.
Do so now, please. I'm really not a fan of you constantly dancing around the subject.

@NSG: My main concern with ASP comes from the fact that his votes seem so dismissive. His vote on Impede pretty much came out of the blue based on semantics rather than any serious analysis:

I'm starting to like this Impede wagon, and I dislike the high and mighty "I hope you're ready to get scumread..." in 237. Classic Scumstrat.

VOTE: Impede

It's surface deep and he never bothered to elaborate on anything afterwords. It's an excuse to vote someone rather than an actual read and it feels terrible. In fact, he did something pretty similar today, too:

VOTE: Shinobi

Low activity is, and has been, a bad push since 209. NSG's 438 is spot on.

The reality is that his reads are based on almost nothing and he doesn't seem to care about anything else other than dropping his vote and leaving for the day. He has no townreads to speak of and there's nothing in his ISO that amounts to scumhunting outside of these "reads" that look nothing like real reads and look like excuses to vote people.

So yes, him lurking is part of my scumread on him. It doesn't seem like he cares about voting mafia - he just votes whoever is convenient and leaves.

Now to do some work on Assemble.

[Shinobi]

It took me like 30 seconds to look through Assemble's ISO.
He's a lurksack with an unexplained batch of reads that looks opportunistic and shaky. Nothing to elaborate on there - I'm happy voting him as well.

I'm pretty stuck on my third right now, otherwise.

[Shinobi]

I’d really like comments on my case and where people stand on ASP.
I feel like I’ve been completely ignored and it’s infuriating.

[Shinobi]

Can I get a comment from someone that isn't scum?
Preferably from NSG because she was asking about it.

[Shinobi]

It's #466.

[Shinobi]

so this vc is interesting

my top 3 scumreads are being voted in the top 3 lynches

which rarely means that all 3 of them are scum

~HOWEVER~

all 3 of them are vanity voting as well

why are all three of them resisting each other

the game cannot be this easy, can it?

Who else do you suspect?

flavor, sunlit, mozamis

^ there's a scum, given nero got removed because of his reads

Maybe.
Alternatively Nero got shot because he was guarding somebody.
Though I guess I should read into flavor/diamond some. Diamond I remember being okay with on Day 1 - then he disappeared. I don't think I've ever developed a solid read on Flavor either.

I'm pretty averse to a mozamis lynch and that is 100% because I'm biased towards him.

I’d really like comments on my case and where people stand on ASP.

feel its a bit of a lurker lynch

Sure.
Maybe I've been harping on it so long that I'm just stuck in a deep tunnel.
Also he said he was going to produce content and never bothered with that either. If he is town somehow he's not making this easy.

[Shinobi]

Alright, who do you think you'd be wrong on and why?

[Shinobi]

We're just going to end up on another last minute compromise and it feels bad.
I need to spend time figuring out how to fix that.

Speaking of which, what do people think of Flavor?

[Shinobi]

Alright.
How about Lapsa?

This goes to everyone, btw. If we're not lynching Assemble/ASP then I need new ideas.

[Shinobi]

it just seemed like shade throwing
i could do assembles, its a bit of a lurker lynch but he certainly doen nothing town, decent chance of him being scum?

i know it's not going off of a lot, but i think assemble is town this game.

I know I'm not going to believe you when you explain it, but can you explain it anyway?

[Shinobi]

it just seemed like shade throwing
i could do assembles, its a bit of a lurker lynch but he certainly doen nothing town, decent chance of him being scum?

i know it's not going off of a lot, but i think assemble is town this game.

I know I'm not going to believe you when you explain it, but can you explain it anyway?

iuh

can't even exasperate how much i dislike this post in meaningful words

we need to get moving

I think I can lynch assemble but maybe nsg has a good reason why we shouldn’t?
Alternatively I can vote Transcend. If we’re not doing low content lynches then he’d probably be one of my top picks.

[Shinobi]

I don’t know what happened with those quotes. Huh.
Anyhoezels.

[Shinobi]

like i said, it's not a lot to go off of but it seems like assemble's made more of an effort to put opinions forward this game, at least for him. whereas i think he could normally just skate by on his lurker meta if he were scum, from these posts it seems like he's made just a bit more effort to look at the game:

So how about instead of RVS. We actually start some conversation. I think Lapsa's vote looked a bit opportunistic.

Because he didn't even say anything about it, just voted.

He RVSed someone who scumclaimed. The postcount hadn't broken double digits. You calling this opportunistic scum beggars belief.

Also why did you point that out to just Bory? That's a bit weird.

Because Bory was the only one I saw defending him.

I just wanted to see who would have a weird reaction, and I think I found the person.

Make up your mind. I wasn't the one who suggested a PL on you page 1.

I still don't know what you were hoping to achieve. I can't see any response to that, organic or fabricated, being AI... especially because anyone in their right mind already suspects that you only posted it to stir the pot, so any reactions you get are WIFOM.

This post is a bit weird, cause I wasn't talking about you. But, the way you answered it is weird for someone you are suspicious of.

What's weird about it? He's explaining why your every action so far makes him scumread you.

You are crap-full of OMGUS and BS here, and you have the nerve to call my vote on you for that bad?

@ assembles what r your reads?

Readlist, from town to scum:
mozamis
Lord Gurgi
Sunlit Diamond
Flavor Leaf
Lapsa
Northsidegal
Transcend
A Simple Plan
Shinobi
Kokichi Oma
VOTE: Kokichi

How, exactly? He responded to something that happened over a week before he posted and then made a readslist with no reasoning.
How is this outside his meta?

[Shinobi]

like i said, it's not a lot to go off of but it seems like assemble's made more of an effort to put opinions forward this game, at least for him. whereas i think he could normally just skate by on his lurker meta if he were scum, from these posts it seems like he's made just a bit more effort to look at the game:

So how about instead of RVS. We actually start some conversation. I think Lapsa's vote looked a bit opportunistic.

Because he didn't even say anything about it, just voted.

He RVSed someone who scumclaimed. The postcount hadn't broken double digits. You calling this opportunistic scum beggars belief.

Also why did you point that out to just Bory? That's a bit weird.

Because Bory was the only one I saw defending him.

I just wanted to see who would have a weird reaction, and I think I found the person.

Make up your mind. I wasn't the one who suggested a PL on you page 1.

I still don't know what you were hoping to achieve. I can't see any response to that, organic or fabricated, being AI... especially because anyone in their right mind already suspects that you only posted it to stir the pot, so any reactions you get are WIFOM.

This post is a bit weird, cause I wasn't talking about you. But, the way you answered it is weird for someone you are suspicious of.

What's weird about it? He's explaining why your every action so far makes him scumread you.

You are crap-full of OMGUS and BS here, and you have the nerve to call my vote on you for that bad?

@ assembles what r your reads?

Readlist, from town to scum:
mozamis
Lord Gurgi
Sunlit Diamond
Flavor Leaf
Lapsa
Northsidegal
Transcend
A Simple Plan
Shinobi
Kokichi Oma
VOTE: Kokichi

How, exactly? He responded to something that happened over a week before he posted and then made a readslist with no reasoning.
How is this outside his meta?

Because I ISOed everyone to make that readslist in the first place.

I'm so impressed.
I'd be even more impressed if you explained them instead of just posting a list of names that means nothing to me.