Mini Normal 1976 - The Firsts - Night 2[End Jan 8]

[PsykoSavant]

Happy holidays people!

2inamil, are you scum?

Yeahhhh I flagged that too, but a quick scan through some of his games shows he does this as scum and as town (but more often as scum v.s. only one instance as town) so sketch points there.

[PsykoSavant]

Flagged what?

Not last time I checked. What about you?

No, I rolled town again.

Happy holidays people!

2inamil, are you scum?

Yeahhhh I flagged that too, but a quick scan through some of his games shows he does this as scum and as town (but more often as scum v.s. only one instance as town) so sketch points there.

Yes flagged what

This?

VOTE: acryon

Truly random.

The "truly random" set off my tinglies. I figured this also was what made Monkey want to specifically ask 2inamil if he was scum v.s. asking anyone else who had posted by that point.

[PsykoSavant]

Also interested in how fast you found it important to metadive TIAM lmao

VOTE: PsykoSavant

I'm on break from school, I have nothing better to do with my time. I hate RVS so I went looking for data on something I found weird. For the shiggles.

Take your pick of reasons.

[PsykoSavant]

Happy holidays people!

2inamil, are you scum?

Yeahhhh I flagged that too, but a quick scan through some of his games shows he does this as scum and as town (but more often as scum v.s. only one instance as town) so sketch points there.

I've only played once as scum ftr so points off for misinformation here.

This is a straight up lie but I can't talk about it because of site rules.....

[PsykoSavant]

Happy holidays people!

2inamil, are you scum?

Yeahhhh I flagged that too, but a quick scan through some of his games shows he does this as scum and as town (but more often as scum v.s. only one instance as town) so sketch points there.

I've only played once as scum ftr so points off for misinformation here.

This is a straight up lie but I can't talk about it because of site rules.....

You already did, so you either lied or you broke site rules.

nvmind I found two games where you are scum that don't break site rules that I can talk about.


viewtopic.php?f=23&t=73794

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=74301

[PsykoSavant]

*Sigh* You guys are really gonna make me do this....

Scum Opening
viewtopic.php?p=9707784#p9707784

viewtopic.php?p=9817329#p9817329

Town Opening
viewtopic.php?p=9673092#p9673092

viewtopic.php?p=9470326#p9470326

viewtopic.php?p=9536566#p9536566

viewtopic.php?p=9626535#p9626535

viewtopic.php?p=9523575#p9523575


Notice in his Town openings there's variation in how he enters the games, both his scum openings are exactly the same. Not enough data on his scum game to call this game a confirmed scum game, which is why my vote didn't go there immediately, just gave him sketch points and put him on my watch-closely list.

[PsykoSavant]

Here's the pattern I'm seeing:
Scum: Bold tag vote, short random excuse.
Town: Either hello post or tag for a reason other than RVS.

If you're really buying a flimsy excuse as "I didn't see the game close" and going to lynch the person who caught TIAM in a blatant lie, then I have no words for you.

[PsykoSavant]

VOTE: TIAM
fwiw

[PsykoSavant]

As town, can you see that your first reaction to this post is to metadive the fuck out of it? Note that he didn't even vote it at first, only when he was under pressure and forced to do something with it. I'm not seeing that as organic town process.

I told you that I had given him sketch points for it based on the fact that it was only 2 scum games that I could use for my read and conclusions. I didn't actually vote until afterwards when he gained more sketch points for purposely lying and saying he was only scum in 1 game, and his subsequent posts which got progressively scummier to me. Once he hit my threshold for a vote, I placed a vote there.

[PsykoSavant]

Meta diving and then defending his argument is scummy?

Yes. Using meta is garbage in general. His conclusions were wrong and didn’t really make sense plus people enter rvs different each game. Changing your entrance isn’t AI.

So he’s basically grasping at something to use which is very scummy

I only disagree with the using meta is garbage. I get where you're coming from but I feel like you're making assumptions based off things you shouldn't know. How can his conclusions be wrong if we don't know 2IAM alignment this game?

Grasping is scummy. Defending when pressured is not. He literally got called a liar page one.

I can agree it seems inorganic but he hasn't made any other posts since, so I remain to be unconvinced it's more scummy than town but maybe I'm missing something...

Psycho posted: Why did you decide to defend your metadived rather than retract and say the argument was weak? anything besides him lieing (making a mistake)

Because I honestly see a pattern even if ya'll don't see it.

But it makes no sense to meta dive him based on his entry. I just don’t understand why you as town would do that. I could see why you as scum would.

He said "truly random." I don't like that he felt the need to point out it really is random, feels like over-justification and sent up flags. See prior reasons about being bored to tears etc. The progression of him voting, continuing to pressure me to see if the wagon would form, and then unvoting when he realized a) he wasn't gaining the quick traction he was looking for and b) I'm actually making a good argument is scummy. I do think he was either purposely lying or hoping that we wouldn't find the game that just closed.

[PsykoSavant]

Now I'm more uncertain than before.

I don't see why you would think he would be purposefully lying. Also I don't see arguments for why he was scummy I see arguments that he has a meta and was following it... which is fine... for like drawing information out but not AI to this game... like meta is only AI on completed games because it can be manipulated. It is a useful tool for drawing things out of people but you're focusing way less on that and more on the metaread itself....

I'll explore more when I get to take my lunch getting to work now.

Till then UNVOTE: Though I highly doubt that scum could have hammered you at L2 elegantly enough for us not to be suspicious of people voting you.

Are you even reading my posts?
I said that the opening post and metadive put him on my radar, not the reason I voted him.
The lying is why I voted him.
The scummy progression of voting, pressuring, unvoting when no wagon formed is what is keeping my vote there.

[PsykoSavant]

Townish on Profii give the reaction to that HEM/DH spectacle.
BuJaber is getting sketch points for wanting to keep around the volatile vig.
HEM had me thinking town to the point of almost LAMIST? (making posts like "everybody stop scum telling, be more town, everyone towntell, etc.") but Mulch has continued to feel town.
Sky_Paladin has done zilch besides vote hop on two players that were looking like good early lynch candidates (TIAM to myself) or pressure/question someone AFTER other people stated their suspicions (jodaxq). I could vote here if it came down to it at deadline.

[PsykoSavant]

Just getting back to the game, thoughts incoming.
Thoughts on the cop claim:
Ridiculously risky play as scum but I see the reasoning behind it:
If Mulch is scum then cop claim would have been a good way to get out of a lynch, but (and forgive me if I haven't counted well, but I didn't see a vote count recently) there was no pressure of a lynch. On the other hand, there is pressure of Mulch dying tonight due to DH's insistence on using a vig kill on him. Claiming even night cop is a good way to either try to deter DH from killing Mulch or try to draw the doctor's protection tonight. We have no way to confirm if Mulch is the even night cop until D3 so if Mulch is scum this ensures we keep him alive until then to see his first set of results. I'm okay not voting here for now, but come D3, this is an egg we need to crack.

[PsykoSavant]

Let’s ignore the claim completely.

Does his play look town? If yes. Explain (everyone should do this)

If no. What’s the right call? Leave him alive til day 3? Lynch him? I kill him?

If he is town he needs to play to my standards. He needs to post his reasons for all his scum reads.

Derpy is tunnelling mad hard and just proving to me that he and I have fundamentally different approaches to this game.
TIAM hasn't done anything to convince me to switch off of this vote.
Would like to see something from Sky to either confirm my scum read or help assuage my paranoia
If Profi is scum, he's doing a good job of making me read him town.
BuJaber - continues to be hedgey and is rising on my list of scum.

[PsykoSavant]

Not understanding the Jodaxq votes, yes she hasn't been super helpful, but only has 9 posts. Need more content for a read here, and I agree with rb that a D1 lurker lynch is BS in this game, especially given Christmas and Christmas Eve circumstances.
Rb was worrying me that he could be scum just commenting on profi to look like he was scum hunting, but reading that multiple times and the subsequent shift of focus to BuJaber and Myself makes me think null-town.
Hawk doesn't set off any red flags just yet, just meh.
Need more to analyze on acryon.

[PsykoSavant]

People who are criticizing me for dropping off the map, I've been immensely turned off by the toxicity from some of the people in this game.
As for anyone who is questioning my reads, can you give me a specific read that you don't like? I can elaborate more on why my opinion on a person is the way it is.
Sky's recent play leads me to believe less scummy than I felt when I posted last.
TIAM is still where my vote is staying.
BuJaber is now second on my list of scum.
@MODs can we get a VC?

[PsykoSavant]

TwoInAMillion(3) ~

PsykoSavant, BuJaber, Mulch

PsykoSavant(2) ~ rb, Jodaxq
profii(2) ~ TwoInAMillion, Derpy Hooves
BuJaber(2) ~ Sky_Paladin, profii
Mulch(1) ~ acryon

I see three players who all have votes against them all voting for the same 'save myself' slot without any real motivation for actually voting 2mil.

PsykoSavant who was attempting to townclear 2mil at the start and that is what got them in hot water from the beginning of RVS.
BuJaber, for reasons outlined in my prior case.
Mulch, because ??? no obvious reason.

Votes on Profii (TwoInAMillion, Derpy Hooves) need to be explained - with roughly four and a half days left in RL, we are not lynching there today without good new cases. Viable sensible lynch options are Pskyo, BuJaber, and Mulch IMO.
Deeply interested in seeing which of Pskyo, BuJaber and Mulch blink first and vote for the other ones in that group of three.

Town probably will consolidate between Pskyo/BuJaber and I'm happy with either one. I could be sold on a Mulch lynch as discussed by Acryon previously.

Yes because me highlighting something sketchy TIAM did and then saying that I am giving them sketch points for it, and then voting that person when they continued to get sketchy, is def me trying to townclear TIAM. Yup. Good work.

In other words,

@Pskyo/BuJaber/Mulch

please explain your votes in your next posts.

Pay attention, I’ve been explaining my vote on TIAM since I first made it. Nothing TIAM has done since then has made me think town.

The key difference in constraining the lynch is the timing and the reasoning. You wanted it in the first half of the day phase, apparently as an effort to corral voters to only focus on 2iam, Pskyo and Mulch, and by function, restrict players from looking outside that group at players such as yourself. You then further ruled out Mulch and vote parked on 2iam. This vote has never been substantiated other than the initial RVS when Pskyo implicated himself for doing a potentially fake metadive on 2iam, and your vote should have been on Psyko if that was your genuine intention. Since that's never happened I can't see how you honestly see scum!2iam.

I've asked for players to focus amongst the existing wagons, and specifically asked for Pskyo/BuJager, because we're now down to the last few RL days of the phase in between two of the largest AFK periods in the year, and there is a very real danger that if town cannot consolidate we will have a scum-directed mislynch or no-lynch.

Like if you look at this vote tally with just my two picks -

TwoInAMillion(3) ~

PsykoSavant, BuJaber

, Mulch

PsykoSavant(2)

~ rb, Jodaxq

BuJaber(2)

~ Sky_Paladin, profii

Both BuJaber and Pskyo should be going "Hmm, both of us are main lynch candidates for today, guess I'd better vote the other one because I know I am not scum" but they're refusing to look at each other, despite Pskyo being one of BuJaber's alleged scum reads.

I do encourage BuJaber to continue to post and show activity though, because it's much easier to derive alignment information from chatty players, and I may yet be mistaken.

You are clearly not reading. I have stated that Sky was going to be my vote if it came down to a no-lynch/lynching me with BuJaber as a close third, then once I read their subsequent posts, I’ve said that I would vote BuJaber in such a situation.

I already explained my vote. I see Mulch and prolif as a scumteam.

I’ve said a couple of times I am none the wiser as to why you’ve linked us. Would you mind elaborating a bit on that please

I think TIAM linked you two based on this:

profi's assumption of Mulch as town, and Mulch's quick vote of Jodax after profi was voted makes me think they could be a scumteam.

Which is terrible logic. The posts TIAM is attempting to analyze were almost simultaneous (a minute apart) and I'm having trouble seeing how BuJaber voting Profi and then Mulch voting Jodaxq links Mulch and Profi.

[PsykoSavant]

you don't understand it therefore it's a poor argument? Scum want to divert attention away from their scumbuddies. How is that hard to understand?

It’s a poor argument because this means anytime anyone votes anyone else then they’re “pulling attention away from their scumbuddies.” Your logic is crap here.

[PsykoSavant]

you don't understand it therefore it's a poor argument? Scum want to divert attention away from their scumbuddies. How is that hard to understand?

It’s a poor argument because this means anytime anyone votes anyone else then they’re “pulling attention away from their scumbuddies.” Your logic is crap here.

I didn't say anytime. I said specifically beause profil had just said to "assume that Mulch is town."

I'm assuming you're referring to this post:

Win condition is town out number scum

Assumption = Mulch is town

if we lynch someone else and you kill Mulch that will be 3 town deaths by the time day 2 starts

Therefore by lynching you we save Mulch and that’s one less town death because you didn’t team kill

That’s less towns people dead which is part of the win condition


Therefore the decision people need to think about is if Mulch is town or not. But as I said you aren’t not doing much at all to convince anyone

Profi assumes Mulch is town for the purposes of theorizing. Even in the end, Profi says we need to figure out if Mulch is town or not. Nowhere does he imply that he IS assuming Mulch is town.

You're argument is getting shittier and shittier.

[PsykoSavant]

*Your

Thats gonna drive me nucking futs.

[PsykoSavant]

You’re doing my defence for me dude, soon we are going to be a scum team... I totally agree though

lol defending you is just a byproduct of me trying to point out to people that TIAM has been skating by on shitty logic and needs to be lynched.

[PsykoSavant]

Can we please not lynch the cop until we have some evidence that counters Mulch's claim (i.e. come day 3)?
DH get your head out of your tunnel, don't shoot Mulch. Or if you do and he flips town, I hope you finally realize how shitty your gameplay is.
I honestly don't know how many more times I have to say this, but LYNCH TIAM.

[PsykoSavant]

Extension is a bad idea. No lynch is even worse. I’d like to have a flip to analyze even if it means I have to begrudgingly vote Mulch. Still think Bujaber or TIAM are better votes if anyone is with me I’d like to flip one of them.
If we extend mods please replace me, I can’t read more of this eye bleed.

[PsykoSavant]

Votecount 1.3

Mulch(4)

~ acryon, TwoInAMillion, Sky_Paladin, Mulch

PsykoSavant(2)

~ rb, Jodaxq

TwoInAMillion(1)

~ PsykoSavant

profii(1)

~ Derpy Hooves

BuJaber(1)

~ Hawk


Not Voting (2): BuJaber, profii

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-01-02 21:00:00)

FLAVOR

This is an automated vote count generated by a tool written by MathBlade. It goes much smoother with exact votes but will try to detect bold votes and misspellings. If you have issues during this beta, please get MathBlade.

Performed 34 calls in 6 seconds. With an average of 0.205382352941176 seconds per call.
<<Flavor of first stuff coming later>>

BuJaber stop being dumb we have a day and some hours left.

Acryon, Bujaber, and Psycho have kinda danced around the idea of lynches most of the day not taking any firm stances. If we're lynching outside of Mulch I'm fine with any of these.

Come on guys let's use this last little bit of time.

VOTE: BuJaber

What do you mean danced around the idea of lynching? I have had one strong lynch and stayed on that vote and have been saying that I could lynch BuJ since my earliest reads. Do you selectively read or is this manufactured bs? :squint:
VOTE: BuJabber

[PsykoSavant]

I.......I have no idea what’s going on anymore.

[PsykoSavant]

Can we lynch Psyko now .____.

No because that would be a bad idea.
UNVOTE: BuJaber
VOTE: TIAM

[PsykoSavant]

PS and Mulch trying to force a NL...

How are mulch and I the ones who are tryin to force a no lynch when Hawk was the one who unvoted? Do you think sky is trying to force a NL for inviting too? Am I not allowed to back off for a second to weigh BuJaber’s claim?
People this is scum.

[PsykoSavant]

UNVOTE: TIAM
VOTE: BuJaber
I don't buy the claim. Too easy to look at Mulch's ability and make up something that wouldn't be be lynched and toss on the same modifier.




THIS IS L-1

[PsykoSavant]

If Sky's tally is accurate, that was hammer.

[PsykoSavant]

I'm gonna say again, lynching is a bad move for town.

[PsykoSavant]

*lynching me

[PsykoSavant]

I'm gonna say again, lynching is a bad move for town.

Please use a different defence than this

What WILL you listen to? I've been pointing out scum since page 1, refuted the BS case stacked against me, and all but told you I'm a PR.
Thats all you're getting.
If you're town, back off.

[PsykoSavant]

Responding to a request Godel made of me via PM:

If you grant an extension, please replace me.

[PsykoSavant]

I'm gonna say again, lynching is a bad move for town.

Please use a different defence than this

What WILL you listen to? I've been pointing out scum since page 1, refuted the BS case stacked against me, and all but told you I'm a PR.
Thats all you're getting.
If you're town, back off.

Claim or die


VOTE: pyschi

What fresh bullshittery is this?
I'm not claiming. Lynch me, this game is screwed anyway. Town forcing town to out PR's on day one. SMH. Learn to play better.
All I'm saying is you all damn well better go after TIAM once you see me flip.

[PsykoSavant]

After I flip, lynch

1) 2mil
2) acorn

Both who are encouraging the vigilante to shoot the cop

This post makes me think one of these two is scum and Mulch was trying to clear one or the other knowing that derpy was gonna shoot him or he was gonna get lynched yesterday. Need to read more on acryon so I'm not just tunneling away on TIAM.

[PsykoSavant]

Hmmmm.... VOTE: Psycho

Acryon was on Mulch so was Profil... Psycho never voted so he was either pocketed or not willing to visa.

He susd HEM but not mulch.

I washed my hands of the back and forth between mulch and derpy and decided that Derpy shooting Mulch was going to give us an answer one way or another. I was skeptical of the claim because of the reason I pointed out (we’d have no way to confirm until D3), but was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.

[PsykoSavant]

Also saying that I suspected HEM is not true. My initial reads in 289 says I had him leaning village to the point where my own paranoia was getting the better of me, but Mulch also continued to feel town.

[PsykoSavant]

*sigh* not scum, I’m the Doctor. I protected myself last night because we outed myself, Bu, and Mulch as PR’s. After Bu’s lynch and Mulch probably getting shot by Derpy, I figured I would be the NK target so I protected me.

[PsykoSavant]

You're idiots. Scum deserves to win this one.

[PsykoSavant]

the thing is his role pm doesn't even say he can protect himself. It should have been clearer imo but whatever. yall won anyway

Role PM says I can attempt to save one player in the game. I'm a player in the game.

Although thank you everyone for the heads up that Doc's can't usually protect themselves. Thats not how it works on the other forum I play on so I didn't even second guess myself that I could do it.