Mini Normal 1988 (Endgame)

[BuJaber]

Hello

VOTE: Sephiroth

[BuJaber]

VOTE: Luca Blight

There is only room for one person with a space in their username, and Nero won the coin flip.

And we should trust you with the coin flip?

[BuJaber]

Actually Roy wait there's 3 players with spaces. I thought you were referring to yourself as Nero for some reason. What do we do with the extra?

[BuJaber]

Okay that makes sense now lol. I thought you were saying only 1 of you can live, so you tossed a coin and lo and behold it came in your favor so we should lynch Luca. Which would be very convenient and not at all suspicious .

[BuJaber]

I don't mind lurker lynches when they are at an appropriate time. When game is slower than average and there isn't a general consensus. When there are multiple wagons coming up and down and discussion is heated it doesn't make sense to me to go for a lurker.

In this particular game though I may be more inclined to do so because of the shorter day. Like two prods in one day for example would be insane and totally game ruining.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: Two in a million

How dare you imply rvs is overrated!

Roy started RVS talking about voting people with spaces in their name and then Arch adds spaces to 2inam's when they don't exist. Don't increase lynch pool

VOTE: Archwing

[BuJaber]

I'm suspicious of any reads this early on tbh, this still feels like RVS to me.

feel free to talk more about my 49

I liked your 49.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lalendra

[BuJaber]

Yes but he did it so casually.

[BuJaber]

I'm suspicious of any reads this early on tbh, this still feels like RVS to me.

feel free to talk more about my 49

I liked your 49.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lalendra

What did you like about it? How is the vote on me relevant to you liking it?

I liked it because it was direct and moves the game forward. I liked it because I also felt Roy's stressing over deadline literally within hours of day starting seems overeager. I liked it because he didn't just pick one person to accuse. I liked it because he question's Leon following what reads to me as the first vote out of RVS.

You however seemed dismissive of his post which implies you don't like the questioning of Roy and Leon.
It's a subtle way to defend them and that I find suspicious this early.

[BuJaber]

I liked it because I also felt Roy's stressing over deadline literally within hours of day starting seems overeager.

how come you didn't say anything about it?

To clarify I felt myself agreeing when you pointed it out. It had missed me the first time I read it, admittedly.

[BuJaber]

Best entrance I've seen on MS, Prism. Thanks.

You're over simplifying the Roy issue though. The point isn't about the gambit. Obviously no scum has a reason for a secret gambit. The question here is the intention behind saying it's a secret gambit.
Is it he got caught as scum o he is making an excuse?
Did he get nervous as town so he explained but doesn't want to reveal his plan to scum?
Or is the statement itself a scum gambit to appear town?

Lalendra is scum, vote lalendra. Or it's prism.
Like as much as I like the thought process behind Prism's post I think it's reaching. Reading seph's posts gives me a townie vibe and I find it odd he'd pick seph over anyone else that's questionable.

But a question for you Prism, if you are heavily leaning town for Roy, what do you think of Leon sheeping him?

[BuJaber]

Best entrance I've seen on MS, Prism. Thanks.

not really liking the buddying here. And from earlier I didn't like your 59

@Prism

Roy is an alt.

They're different. You're a town read. Prism is currently in my scum pool. If you want compare it with my friendly banter with Roy. I like him also but he's in my scum pool too. A lot of this is banking on Lalendra being scum. My first few games on here have taught me to trust my first instincts a lot more.

[BuJaber]

I don't see the problem?

He can have a good entrance and be scum. I like means I literally like. I enjoyed reading it. It's better than "hurr durr I'm here now what's up?"

You said you didn't like that I liked your post and his and I'm saying they're not the same because I liked each post for different reasons.

[BuJaber]

I'm on the phone so excuse me for not using quotes.

About Seph: Sure I see it but I don't think that is AI, particularly from Seph. Though obviously if I'm wrong and neither Lalendra or you are scum that makes my read of the game state really lopsided.

As for my read on you: apart from the scum vibe I got from her first post and your first post, I am also getting low-key defense of Roy & Leon. I am inducing that one of you/lalendra is scum and if so one of Roy/Leon is scum.

However that is not to say that if you are in fact town and Lalendra is somehow town that that automatically means Roy/Leon are inno obviously. I could be way off on the associatives.

[BuJaber]

As for my read on you: apart from the scum vibe I got from her first post and your first post, I am also getting low-key defense of Roy & Leon. I am inducing that one of you/lalendra is scum and if so one of Roy/Leon is scum.

Me and Lalendra haven't associated at all. I don't know what associatives you're getting from us here, other than a complete absence: in which case the same could be said of say, me and TwoInAMillion.

I'm mainly just looking for it to be explicit whether these are completely independent scumreads or you think there's a link between them. The way you're phrasing it it seems like if Lalendra is scum, I'm probably town, and that seems nonsensical given what we have so far.

I am also getting low-key defense of Roy & Leon

I mean, Roy, sure, but you directly asked me about Leon and I stated that I haven't found his only meaningful/action indicative, and that there's a clear incentive for him to make them as town. (I think the scum motive is pretty obvious). I'm not sure what reaction

other

than scumreading Leon wouldn't meet this qualification. It seems to run into the same problem if you had asked me about literally anyone else that I didn't scumread.

Okay 1. Sure maybe from your pov it's nonsensical. But to lay it down more clearly: Right now I think there is a strong possibility of finding scum between Roy & Leon, but not both. I could vote for one then the other but a) the first lynch would be a coin flip. And b) if I'm wrong about both I'm basing ny entire scumhunting approach on this theory which means I'm probably missing other evidence and I could end up going after two townies. To mitigate this I want to look elsewhere first and see if it still makes sense for one of them to be scum.

Lalentra and your posts stood out. If one of you is scum I would be even more convinced that one of Roy/Leon is. But again I can't imagine a scumteam would have a pretty similar reaction to Roy/Leon so I'm ruling out that you both are scum.

However your reaction to my question about Leon plus the above quote shows me you are not going after easy targets (I think it's easy for scum to jump early on leon as a lynch here). So you're back to a nullread for me. At the very least it shows me you're not a noob scum.

[BuJaber]

I'm suspicious of any reads this early on tbh, this still feels like RVS to me.

My suspicion is based on this.
If this is the truth why post it at all?

Like it isn't even clear who's reads she's referring to. Everyone's? If you don't have early reads doesn't mean others can't. I just don't see why it's suspicious. And even more importantly I don't see why town would even say this at all especially in such a vague and general way. It felt like she's dismissing an early read without specifiying which so as to not expose a partner.

[BuJaber]

Like if you think I'm scum, just vote me now and you'll have 6 pages of info and associatives going into day 2. But I guarantee that while I'm not the worst lynch, I'm definitely not the best.

Yes can we lynch lalendra?

[BuJaber]

hopefully catching up in a few hours

incoming moz wall

False advertising.

[BuJaber]

ok so p.o.e town reads:
Moz,BUj, Prism, Arch, Seph, Nero, Roy, Llandra

so 3 scum in: Luca,Two,Leon, Chumba and Golden
easy

I'm only comfortable voting for golden between that scum pool and that's only because he doesn't post so there's nothing to townread.
We're gonna have trouble agreeing.

Maybe I can see TWO scum here but it's a meta thing.
I've only played 1 game with TWO but he seems uncharacteristically quiet.

[BuJaber]

Scumreading Roy and Luca. They look like they're trying to move the game forward and scumhunt, but their cases are weak, their approach is at best ineffective and anti-town. If Roy's gambit is real it is now completely ruined.
Also anybody who's townreading lalendra is wrong imo.

Chumba's posts started off lacking and suspicious but he's making valid arguments and his passion seems townie enough. After reading his ISO though I'm surprised nobody was scumreading him.

Luca's vote on leeoon is interesting. Roy pointed out that it is reginiting an old wagon which is a scummy thing to do. BUT leoon reay hasn't posted anything useful and I want to vote there too.

You guys still think I'm wrong about one of lalendra/prism defending one of Roy/Leoon. Roy/Leoon so scummy right now. Luca is my current guess for 3rd scum.

Can these 5 people talk a lot more please. I can't decide between you.

[BuJaber]

You agree with me but your case against Lalendra is weak. As for leeoon again just because I agree it doesn't make it a good case. He's just low hanging fruit at the moment.

And my point about chumba isn't weird at all. He's a townread NOW. But I am suspicious that nobody scumread him earlier when his posts were severely lacking. Wouldn't you think somebody would have at least pointed it out?

The only post of yours that is actually pretty strong is linking me with prism but even there you failed to notice the most important point, which is that I've since stated I'm actually leaning town for him. IF we were a scumteam that would be the smoking gun and yet you totally ignore that.

[BuJaber]

What are you talking about? Ok yes turns out you did vote her before me but have you even read my posts? My enture read of the game state has been explained. I've been the most open about explaining my cases of Lalendra/Prism and Roy/Leoon. I've had the logic and poe laid out from the start and I've been testing my theory ever since. You just jumped in my lap recently as the possible 3rd scum.

You're version of events assumes I've been sheeping your opinions when i fact that was a coincidence. I didn't even know you were the one who voted for lalendra before me until you pointed it out. And until you can be convinced that I was having original thoughts you won't be able to shake that idea off and you're opinion of me is gonna be shaped by that.

There is an easy way to prove all of this. If Lalendra joins your wagon on me it confirms every read I've had all day. Roy will probably vote elsewhere coz he's the 'wildcard' who's job is to distract the town from you two so he'll probably distance himself.

VOTE: Bujaber VOTE:
Now we wait.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: bujaber

[BuJaber]

How am I tunneling?

Also if you can't see the town motivation it will be clear enough either before the day ends or after the flip. Thanks for voting though lol. 1 down.

[BuJaber]

There is an easy way to prove all of this. If Lalendra joins your wagon on me it confirms every read I've had all day. Roy will probably vote elsewhere coz he's the 'wildcard' who's job is to distract the town from you two so he'll probably distance himself.

Not sure I understand the point of stating this, as you've now made it WIFOM. i.e., if I vote you, your SR on me is confirmed; if I don't, you might have townread me if this wasn't stated, but now you can't because I might just be scum who is aware of this post and not wanting to confirm your SR of me? And self-voting is a bad play. If you're not scum, stop being anti-town.

Whether you vote or not doesn't help me either way. It's reactions like these I can get more out of. I actually don't think scum would make this point at this moment. They'd just vote/not vote and if they got heat from that they'd then discredit me. For what it's worth I like this post and the tone I'm reading.

[BuJaber]

The problem is there are so many inactive and suspect players this game. The only reason I'm not voting Chumba is because I believe a TIAM lynch is the better option for D1; at least Chumba is producing content and can be sorted later, whereas TIAM has been making excuses all day and will most likely continue to do so.

The only two I townread at the moment are Nero and Moz, and even that's at a stretch.

Your reason for not voting chumba is the same reason I don't want to vote you. You are going to be a lot easier to sort out later because you are posting a lot.
Chumba is right about one thing .. you seem to scumread some people for not playing like you.


TIAM lynch seems like a coin flip to me. I think we should either lynch Roy for reasons previously mentioned or Paradox who's really not doing much else than joining wagons.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Roy

[BuJaber]

Your preference for lynching Paradox over TIAM makes no sense - Tiam has also done nothing recently but join wagons.

Your reasoning for not voting me could equally apply to Roy.

If you're implying that I'm scumreading you for not playing like me then you are sorely mistaken.

1. But I only have 1 vote. And I don't want to vote for your preference.

2. Except I think I have a solid case on Roy and he's talking less. You have shown you have the will and ability to post frequently and engage in conversation. So no not really the same.

3. Among other people.

[BuJaber]

I have explained my scumlean on lalendra. If you don't agree say you don't agree. If you didn't read it go and read it. Don't just make up lies about me not explaining it. Seriously this is like the 3rd time someone says I haven't explained my read. We're only 13 pages in there's no excuse for not going back.
I am not offended if you think my cases are weak or you think I'm stupid but making me repeat myself is really tiresome.

Plus if you're paying attention I really liked her post after I self-voted so for the time being I'm laying off her.

[BuJaber]

I'm suspicious of any reads this early on tbh, this still feels like RVS to me.

feel free to talk more about my 49

I liked your 49.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lalendra

What did you like about it? How is the vote on me relevant to you liking it?

I liked it because it was direct and moves the game forward. I liked it because I also felt Roy's stressing over deadline literally within hours of day starting seems overeager. I liked it because he didn't just pick one person to accuse. I liked it because he question's Leon following what reads to me as the first vote out of RVS.

You however seemed dismissive of his post which implies you don't like the questioning of Roy and Leon.
It's a subtle way to defend them and that I find suspicious this early.

I'm on the phone so excuse me for not using quotes.

About Seph: Sure I see it but I don't think that is AI, particularly from Seph. Though obviously if I'm wrong and neither Lalendra or you are scum that makes my read of the game state really lopsided.

As for my read on you: apart from the scum vibe I got from her first post and your first post, I am also getting low-key defense of Roy & Leon. I am inducing that one of you/lalendra is scum and if so one of Roy/Leon is scum.

However that is not to say that if you are in fact town and Lalendra is somehow town that that automatically means Roy/Leon are inno obviously. I could be way off on the associatives.

As for my read on you: apart from the scum vibe I got from her first post and your first post, I am also getting low-key defense of Roy & Leon. I am inducing that one of you/lalendra is scum and if so one of Roy/Leon is scum.

Me and Lalendra haven't associated at all. I don't know what associatives you're getting from us here, other than a complete absence: in which case the same could be said of say, me and TwoInAMillion.

I'm mainly just looking for it to be explicit whether these are completely independent scumreads or you think there's a link between them. The way you're phrasing it it seems like if Lalendra is scum, I'm probably town, and that seems nonsensical given what we have so far.

I am also getting low-key defense of Roy & Leon

I mean, Roy, sure, but you directly asked me about Leon and I stated that I haven't found his only meaningful/action indicative, and that there's a clear incentive for him to make them as town. (I think the scum motive is pretty obvious). I'm not sure what reaction

other

than scumreading Leon wouldn't meet this qualification. It seems to run into the same problem if you had asked me about literally anyone else that I didn't scumread.

Okay 1. Sure maybe from your pov it's nonsensical. But to lay it down more clearly: Right now I think there is a strong possibility of finding scum between Roy & Leon, but not both. I could vote for one then the other but a) the first lynch would be a coin flip. And b) if I'm wrong about both I'm basing ny entire scumhunting approach on this theory which means I'm probably missing other evidence and I could end up going after two townies. To mitigate this I want to look elsewhere first and see if it still makes sense for one of them to be scum.

Lalentra and your posts stood out. If one of you is scum I would be even more convinced that one of Roy/Leon is. But again I can't imagine a scumteam would have a pretty similar reaction to Roy/Leon so I'm ruling out that you both are scum.

However your reaction to my question about Leon plus the above quote shows me you are not going after easy targets (I think it's easy for scum to jump early on leon as a lynch here). So you're back to a nullread for me. At the very least it shows me you're not a noob scum.

Me dropping prism back to a nullread there makes lalendra more likely to be scum from my pov.

I'm suspicious of any reads this early on tbh, this still feels like RVS to me.

My suspicion is based on this.
If this is the truth why post it at all?

Like it isn't even clear who's reads she's referring to. Everyone's? If you don't have early reads doesn't mean others can't. I just don't see why it's suspicious. And even more importantly I don't see why town would even say this at all especially in such a vague and general way. It felt like she's dismissing an early read without specifiying which so as to not expose a partner.

Like if you think I'm scum, just vote me now and you'll have 6 pages of info and associatives going into day 2. But I guarantee that while I'm not the worst lynch, I'm definitely not the best.

Yes can we lynch lalendra?

The above are my posts talking about I scumread Lalendra. I tried to clean up the quotes. Sorry if I messed any up. The last one was because she herself admitted she wouldn't be a bad lynch just not the best. As far as I'm concerned this either a scumclaim or VT claim.

There is an easy way to prove all of this. If Lalendra joins your wagon on me it confirms every read I've had all day. Roy will probably vote elsewhere coz he's the 'wildcard' who's job is to distract the town from you two so he'll probably distance himself.

Not sure I understand the point of stating this, as you've now made it WIFOM. i.e., if I vote you, your SR on me is confirmed; if I don't, you might have townread me if this wasn't stated, but now you can't because I might just be scum who is aware of this post and not wanting to confirm your SR of me? And self-voting is a bad play. If you're not scum, stop being anti-town.

Whether you vote or not doesn't help me either way. It's reactions like these I can get more out of. I actually don't think scum would make this point at this moment. They'd just vote/not vote and if they got heat from that they'd then discredit me. For what it's worth I like this post and the tone I'm reading.

So that's all the stuff on lalendra requoted.

I want roy lynched. D1 luking is NAI let's not lynch TIAM yet.

[BuJaber]

Prism what do you think of Roy? If you didn't like TIAM'S wagon you could have voted for someone who actually had enough votes for them to be a realistic lynch.
Also it sounds like you're townreading both TIAM AND paradox. So your paradox vote looks fucking weird.

Nero's frustration feels fake to me. But also golden looks very shady so it's hard to argue with Nero.

Maybe I'm biased because I voted for him but I really don't like that the roy wagon seemed to be ignored and the focus shifted solely on TIAM. This began when they had about equal votes on them so it isn't just a case of TIAM has to go or we risk no lynch.


@moz - what do you mean by anti-buddying and how does the quote show that?

Pedit - pretty sure that's lynch +1 lol

[BuJaber]

Chumba why aren't you voting Archwing? I don't need to wait for your flip to see you won that argument. If you're scum you're just better at debating. Archwing has no leg to stand on. VOTE: archwing

But for the record I don't like your reluctance to vote for him (even though I'm glad someone wants to focus on Roy finally). And that last paragraph of yours is terrible if coming from town. It's some weird combination of WIFOM & LAMIST.

Prism what do you think of Roy? If you didn't like TIAM'S wagon you could have voted for someone who actually had enough votes for them to be a realistic lynch.
Also it sounds like you're townreading both TIAM AND paradox. So your paradox vote looks fucking weird.

Nero's frustration feels fake to me. But also golden looks very shady so it's hard to argue with Nero.

Maybe I'm biased because I voted for him but I really don't like that the roy wagon seemed to be ignored and the focus shifted solely on TIAM. This began when they had about equal votes on them so it isn't just a case of TIAM has to go or we risk no lynch.


@moz - what do you mean by anti-buddying and how does the quote show that?

Can people comment on this; particularly prism and moz sincr day ended before you guys responded? Were you townreading paradox, prism? If so why, and more importantly why did you vote him? Also what do you think of him now?

Paradox's level of contribution is incredible. Solid town behavior right there.

Archwing >> Roy >> Paradox is my lynch pool.

[BuJaber]

Ah shit.. all 3 of them were on the wagon.. best we can hope for is 2/3 scum then. I hiiighly doubt all 3 would vote for TIAM if they were a scumteam.

[BuJaber]

I just want the record to show that if scum succeeds in lynching me today as part of their frame job, please oh please lynch roy/arc/prism once I am dead. The frame job points to arc/prism and well Roy is just scum.

that said, hopefully people are smart enough to realize this is a frame job since arch/prism have given shit reasons for suspecting me which i have basically disproven

no you're town we are not lynching you.
think archwing is town tho too

I really wish you hadn't said that. You sabotaged his trap. Whether or not it was intentional by him.

Roy is the only one I tunneled that hasn't done anytging to make me reconsider (as opposed to prism and lalendra who I have flip flopped on). He's confscum in my book I'd rather catch his partners first. But I'll vote for roy if you prefer it chumba.

[BuJaber]

think a lot of my day 1 reads were garbage,so kinda starting again
Moz, Chumba, Archwing town

Don't think so.. I think it's very likely that of the 3 I named earlier (arch/roy/paradox) .. paradox is probably the town. He just doesn't play well and/or doesn't care about the game. Nsg said there is night chat, paradox's ISO is so empty it's hard to imagine anyone is coordinating with him. Arch's recent shenanigans with chumba don't make sense from town pov.

[BuJaber]

Lol

[BuJaber]

VOTE: Moz

yeah I wanna start here

Just checking: this was a result of your reread of moz/seph interaction? Or did you not have a chance to look back yet?

[BuJaber]

This is a distraction and likely TvT crap. Seems to be quite popular on the site.

Vote for arch or roy

[BuJaber]

You seem town. Moz mainly based on meta, I feel I know his town mentality. Both of your tones are starting to sound personal. I know some people can fake a personal fight as scum but it's generally a town thing. Anyway even if I'm wrong about TvT you two continuing to argue is a distraction. I don't want to have to pick one of you to lynch based on who I feel 'won' the fight. The argument will become less about the game and more about your egos.

[BuJaber]

Moz mainly based on meta, I feel I know his town mentality

you've never played with him though?

I have played with him once. But it ended very recently and we were both killed night 1 so we interacted a lot in dead thread and I feel I know his town mentality.

Anyway even if I'm wrong about TvT you two continuing to argue is a distraction.

How is it a distraction if I'm right?

Because based on the interaction alone I don't understand your point or his either. It's like both of you are finding something suspicious that doesn't seem AI to me, but that doesn't really matter wrt my point. The issue is by continuing to fight the original point gets lost in the arguments, and the arguments themselves aren't AI so we as spectators of the fight don't get anything out of it.

[BuJaber]

Thanks for grouping me with two lurkers but these posts are at keast helpful. Can everyone also post something like this.. more importantly who are you willing to vote for today?

For me it's arch/roy
Leeoon/paradox as secondary options

Strong town reads: moz, havingfitz (chumba slot - hf himself is null so far), nero.

Probably town but no strong basis for this: lalendra, seph

[BuJaber]

ok so p.o.e town reads:
Moz,BUj, Prism, Arch, Seph, Nero, Roy, Llandra

so 3 scum in:

Luca

,Two,Leon, Chumba and Golden
easy

is the one that I remembered.

i guess my point is, IGMEOY: Two, Leon and Golden.
we should focus on those guys.

this is your last from d1 so I guess I'm wrong but my Q here is why did you feel the need to change your reads with only one wrong read in TIAM?

Okay this is a good point but you should have started with this. It looks weaker now like you just noticed it.
Changing reads itself isn't scummy but making someone explain why reveals intentions or sets them up for a slip. You scumread him first and are asking him why later. That's just the wrong approach as town imo.

I don't feel like calling you scum and commenting on very lackluster (IMO) scum hunting. You also keep ignoring the elephant in the room. In our last game when you did this light "suspicion" of me you flipped scum.

Is the first sentence complete here? I don't know what it's supposed to mean.

[BuJaber]

Just to clarify hewhoswims is Roy.

Prism
Moz/seph
Roy/leeon?


Thoughts?

Well I've been townreading moz and seph. Moz a lot more confident about. The rest are good picks.

Not sure why you could be reading arch. Then again you are replacing into a difficult slot. Your predecessor did nothing and I've been treating him as scum. Gonna be easier to read you if this level of activity continues.

[BuJaber]

Ie you could be townreading arch if you're scum with him but yes please go into reasons.

[BuJaber]

Yes let's see if arch busses him back lol.

VOTE: Roy

[BuJaber]

Feels good to be right. Prism was in fact scum.

Stefan defending the scum being bussed, and therefore indirectly bussing the scum on his wagon who are much more likely to be lynched now. (Leoon/Roy are popular wagons arch not so much).

Stefan(Prism), Arch, Roy/Leoon

[BuJaber]

BuJaber:

Stefan defending the scum being bussed, and therefore indirectly bussing the scum on his wagon who are much more likely to be lynched now. (Leoon/Roy are popular wagons arch not so much).

I knew since English isn't my first language, so that is a bit mean from me, but I don't understand this post.

What scum am I defending? From your readinglist, Archangel. How is pointing out that the persons on the voting list:
You, Leeoon and Roy
not making me liking the waggon is defending Archangel?

And the Archangelwaggon has 3 votes on it.
Mozamis and Roy have 2
and Leeoon and now Sephiroth have one.

How is the biggest waggon not popular?

By saying you don't like the wagon against arch you are implying that you don't want to lynch Arch. If you don't want to lynch then it implies you think he's town. That is defending Arch. Or at the very least it is slowing down his wagon.

Feels good to be right. Prism was in fact scum.

Stefan defending the scum being bussed, and therefore indirectly bussing the scum on his wagon who are much more likely to be lynched now. (Leoon/Roy are popular wagons arch not so much).

Stefan(Prism), Arch, Roy/Leoon

justify why prism was scum?

I had this whole theory why prism is scum based on gut, his initial posts, and his early reactions to Roy/Leoon.
I had since moved off because other people stood out as scummier and because I also liked some of his posts after my accusation so he was down to a nullread for me. Stefan now is making me think I was right all along. But again we shall see.

What I am sure of today is that I want one of these 4 lynched and nobody else at the moment:
Roy, Leoon, Arch, Stefan.

[BuJaber]

Stefan.. I believe only one scum between Roy/Leoon. That has been my theory since the start.

So I didn't care that 2 of them joined the wagon. A little strange but since that is only 1 other person with me on the wagon I know that there is another scum somewhere. The fact that it is stopping in its track actually makes me more sure arch is scum. But unfortunately that lynch wasn't happening.


Nero are you still not convinced you and moz is TvT?

[BuJaber]

Yeah but my super strong read was

A) a strong read that one scum is among prism/lalendra not really specific to prism, but I've been liking lalendra as town more over time.
B) it was in day 1.

I have not had that strong a read on prism since and if you really think that then you are either skimming or bsing.

ALSO I've wanted to vote for roy for so long now it really isn't weird to switch to my backup wagon.

Nero we'll just agree to disagree.

[BuJaber]

As for my read on stefan it isn't conflicting. I'm scumreading him but it is a strange read based on him not voting for arch so it depends on him being scum with both arch and roy/leoon. That is too many conditionals for me to want to vote there.

[BuJaber]

@BU: you’re all over the place with your scum reads.

You’re absolutely convinced that prism “was” scum (#681) but you don’t vote for Stefan, Prism’s replacement. Instead, you vote Roy. Why not stick with your apparent super-confident read?

I think it's possible to get really strong reads on someone and then equally strong conflicting reads on their replacement. But I'm also interested in the answer here because it does seem odd.

Do you have any opinions you want to share or push? General posts like these help nobody. You're neither accusing me nor defending me with this so what has anybody gained?

[BuJaber]

Nero since mulch is only slot we both wouldn't mind lynching you want to vote there?
Or will you townread him based on that?

I genuinely want to know. Like by your own logic me scumreading paradox earlier should clear paradox slot.

[BuJaber]

I scumread arch based on the chumba vs arch interaction.

His arguments were bad, he deleted part of a quote that seems very significant to me, and his choice of target doesn't make sense either. He went after one of my strongest town reads.

Like I said maybe chumba is just better at arguing but chumba came out of that argument looking like the reasonable townie and arch looked like the antagonistic scum.

[BuJaber]

TBF, bussing, and distancing are a thing so it doesn't necessarily clear you 100% but sure

vote:mulch

I didn't say it would clear me. I just wanted to see if you're consistent. You didn't put roy/leeooon in your scum pool in 719 so you don't like the arch wagon because on it. You agreeing to vote for mulch seems to contradict that. But the only way in my mind that you could be scum would be if arch, you AND stefan were a scumteam and that just doesn't make much sense. Like if that is the case then I correctly scumread prism for completely wrong reasons and completely misinterpretted your tone while arguing with moz.

VOTE: mulch

[BuJaber]

Like by your own logic me scumreading paradox earlier should clear paradox slot.

You didn't put roy/leeooon in your scum pool in 719 so you don't like the arch wagon because on it. You agreeing to vote for mulch seems to contradict that

Sometimes I feel like you are just saying words. I have no clue what this stuff means.

Sorry didn't proofread. This is what it should have said:

You didn't put roy/leeoon in your scum in 719 so you don't like the arch wagon because

I am

on it.

[BuJaber]

Christopher(1)

havingfitz

mozamis(1)

Archwing

Archwing(1)

Roy Tagliaferro

you guys have useless votes. I might be ok with wagoning any of these useless players but I want to lynch in mULCH/mOZ THE MOST.

Yes I second this. It's nearing the deadline voting off wagon looks like fence sitting.

[BuJaber]

Sorry Nero I mixed you up with havingfitz who quoted stefan talking about arch wagon and said "ditto".

[BuJaber]

Mulch and Nero tvt

WUT

Mulch is being given a chance to change our perspective of the slot (paradox btw) and he chose to argue with nero and bring up personal history.

[BuJaber]

Mulch is the better wagon.. vote mulch.

[BuJaber]

Wtf

[BuJaber]

VOTE: mulch

[BuJaber]

I don't understand why you'd claim here Roy but that crumbing is solid evidence.

Unless we're voting them I also don't see why we should out VTs. If we're about to lynch one of them let us know.

[BuJaber]

I'm town global backup.

Show me one thing that mulch has done that has been pro-town this game. He's a liar. He has omgus'd me since he replaced in. The result he supposedly got should have cleared me in his eyes but he still thought I was mafia. Roy gave him the opportunity he needed to make his vote make sense with his claim so he rode on it.

Plus why wouldn't his slot use his power night 1?

[BuJaber]

I didn't say Roy was scum. My claim contradicts Mulch's only.

And he's being pedantic for no reason. chill. The point is you know the role I'm claiming. Mod can phrase it however he wants and I can phrase it however I want.

[BuJaber]

I never read a rule like that. What difference does it make if he explains the role in pm?


pedit - yes

[BuJaber]

I didn't get any PM saying I'm innocent child. It's a passive role; Is it backup-able?

[BuJaber]

Says on wiki any role that isn't vanilla. I'm day 5 innocent child then.

[BuJaber]

I didn't get a pm saying it. What was I supposed to assume?

[BuJaber]

Mulch is day 3 or day 4 lynch makes no difference to me. We're both dead.

[BuJaber]

If I get mod killed

The mod is getting banned probably lol

This is the guy leading town to 'victory' lol..


Okay fine whatever. You 'deserve' it. VOTE: Bujaber, the mafia goon. Goon. Only a goon. Against god knows how many power roles. Seriously if you don't win now you should quit.

2 power roles outed themselves and had to both investigate me together for me to get lynched. It's bad but I mean it could have been a hell of a lot worse.

After the game (since you can't take anything I say seriously right now) I want to have a real discussion on the merits of playing like you both did. Imo you were the 2 worst town players in this game. And please don't take it personally it's a fair criticism of your approach. You guys did absolutely nothing pro-town and just got lucky with the investigation. Not only that but only both of you investigating me can confscum me, either of you alone wouldn't have done it. That is why I don't think it was a very good strategy. But I've only played mafia for 2 or so years and on MS for 3 months so I don't know. I'm being serious please don't be offended I want to have a learning discussion.

[BuJaber]

>play scummy to avoid nightkill
>help town catch scum and clear a VT
>be the worst town player

what?

Yes sure but playing scummy means you will get heat. So basically you end up having to claim to save yourself from the lynch. It is a gamble that you would get helpful results by that time, isn't it?

Sorry I take it back Mulch is the best player ever. Every post is a doctorate. Without the power role he would have caught all scum in all active games.

[BuJaber]

Anyway This was a fun game until 4 people got replaced.. Thanks to those who didn't replace out. Thanks for those that replaced in to keep it going.

[BuJaber]

Nero and Sephiroth.

Bu: Roy didn't have to claim. He had 0 votes at the time of his claim.

I'm having a theoretical discussion with him .. perhaps it's not the time. But just quick the point was had he gotten enough heat for "playing scummy" he would be in a difficult position of having to convince people to avoid a mislynch. And that probably means he claims and outs himself.


Mulch seriously though your scum game is far superior. What happened to all that content you produced in our previous game?

[BuJaber]

Lmao replacing having effect? If anything we got more active.

Yes? I didn't say no. It just sucks to have so many replacements. It's good there are people willing to step up but it causes a bit of a disconnect. As town I always have trouble reading multi-player slots and I end up mainly going with gut.

Look forget me being scum. I'm just talking as a player in this game now not as scum v town.

[BuJaber]

Ehh in this context universal = global I figured it would sound more natural if I claimed from memory rather than look up the role.

Seriously though would the mod get in trouble for switching a word in the role name? That just seems rediculous.

And btw there was a normal game with a self-protecting doc that passed review.. so not any and all divergence from the norm definitely equals a lie. Apparently mods get a small grey area to personalize their game.

[BuJaber]

Here's a clue: remaining scum have definitely posted in this thread.

[BuJaber]

Can't townread the lurking unfortunately.

Felt I did okay not associating with leon/chris.

Pedit - we were pretty sure there was an anti-town out there

[BuJaber]

The issue with the setup isn't that town is overly powerful. I am pretty sure this result would not happen more than once in 100 simulations of the game. (It basically required both power roles to survive until they both used it on a scum AND required that mulch tunnel on the result that should have cleared me). So no that's not powerful.

But assume 2 goons vs 11 VT's. Is that balanced? I don't really know much about balancing but it sure feels townsided. So when you add power roles to that it's a slam dunk.

Not only that but the fact that town thought there were 3 goons actually helped them. I'm sure the decision to lynch chris would have been a lot harder if they knew only 1 scum left.

[BuJaber]

Well who gets what role is gonna affect the outcome of every game. I'm trying to keep that out of the setup speculation.

(There will always be people who are naturally scumread more than townread, so if they receive PR's it helps town.. can't blame the setup designer for that)

[BuJaber]

Yeah maybe good points by fitz and you.

@NK - I see; thanks for the info. I assume you mean 45% town winrate?

[BuJaber]

Yeah this was educational.

I don't have much experience im scum (and I don't enjoy it as much. I like the analysis part of the game) and then I rolled like 3 scum in a row in 6 games here or something.

[BuJaber]

Oh btw I don't know if anyone read the mafia thread but I mixed up the names of luca and nero at some point in day 1 and didn't know how to play it off so I just rode it and dug deeper on a bs case on luca I never intended to make
Sorry luca XD