Mini Normal 1988 (Endgame)

[Lalendra]

I'm suspicious of any reads this early on tbh, this still feels like RVS to me.

[Lalendra]

I'm suspicious of any reads this early on tbh, this still feels like RVS to me.

feel free to talk more about my 49

I don't necessarily mind eagerness in a game with short deadlines, but I am wary of anyone who claims to have solid reads this soon. I will be interested to see how Roy's play continues from this point but I think you're right to wonder if that eagerness is town motivated.

[Lalendra]

I'm suspicious of any reads this early on tbh, this still feels like RVS to me.

feel free to talk more about my 49

I liked your 49.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lalendra

What did you like about it? How is the vote on me relevant to you liking it?

[Lalendra]

random on Nero just to annoy him
VOTE: nero

I'm more annoyed that you sidestepped content disscussion. :/

VOTE: mozamis

[Lalendra]

Luca has 2 posts only towards Lalendra which I don't quite like, moz vote didn't seem to be RVS.

I never said her vote was RVS; she voted Moz for an RVS vote, which is at odds with her suspicion of people who acquired reads during RVS.

Catching up but addressing things in order.

It didn't look RVS to me, because at that point we had started content discussion which, as was already pointed out, he sidestepped to place his random vote, which was out of place at that time due to the fact that actual conversation was starting to ramp up.

[Lalendra]

Impressions so far:

-I think Archwing's eagerness/reactivity to RVS was weird. The jokes/lack of serious votes kept flowing with the intent to keep the good times rolling rather than progress the game.
-Don't like Sephiroth's #32. It reads as establishing credibility via discussion of mechanics. Arguably that's game-progressing and just an attempt to get his opinion out there, and this is more of a tone issue. I'm inclined to think it's scummy because I get the same vibe but worse in the following post:

I also don't really like the 'i have a plan, but I can't tell you yet' shenanigans from roy. I usually find this type of behavior to be an attempt at virtue signaling (yes I just appropriated that term for mafia use, come at me). Like if he actually wanted genuine reactions or actually had something that needed to be kept in the dark to be effective, he would't be like "HEY GUYS I HAVE A SECRET THING BUT WE NEED TO WAIT".

I'm hardcalling bullshit here. Nearly every time I have seen this, it's been town. There are more experienced players who do stuff like this as scum. Coming from a newer player it is virtually always town. Newer scum are focused on seeming like they don't have anything to hide, newer town don't yet see the value of having everything out in the open (or at least, not tipping the scum off they have something until they do).

Nero, what do you think of me sheeping you since you think sheeping is dumb?

I don't like this. You explicitly highlight what it is that Nero should be taking an issue with your play and asks what he thinks of it. At a minimum, the correct play seems to be to wait and see what he said first, then highlight it and ask why it didn't faze him if it didn't. This is a straightforward question to answer and seems to be more worried about Nero's read on you rather than what Nero's thinking in general.

While I think the process described above is troubling, it's a common mistake as town too: What I think is wrong with it is the general preemptive attention to your own appearance it represents.

VOTE: Sephiroth

Based on what I know of Seph's meta, his posting so far this game doesn't ping me at all.

[Lalendra]

Best entrance I've seen on MS, Prism. Thanks.

not really liking the buddying here. And from earlier I didn't like your 59

@Prism

Roy is an alt.

They're different. You're a town read. Prism is currently in my scum pool. If you want compare it with my friendly banter with Roy. I like him also but he's in my scum pool too. A lot of this is banking on Lalendra being scum. My first few games on here have taught me to trust my first instincts a lot more.

Start re-evaluating now because if I get mislynched you're going to have to do it anyway

[Lalendra]

In post 104, BuJaber wrote:
Lalendra is scum, vote lalendra. Or it's prism.
In what sense are you using "or" here? It's clear I'm in your scum pool, but do you think there is a direct link such that Lalendra being town would make me scum beyond a simple odds increase?

Yeah I'm not seeing the connection here either, given that his entire first post was about Seph.

[Lalendra]

Best entrance I've seen on MS, Prism. Thanks.

not really liking the buddying here. And from earlier I didn't like your 59

@Prism

Roy is an alt.

They're different. You're a town read. Prism is currently in my scum pool. If you want compare it with my friendly banter with Roy. I like him also but he's in my scum pool too. A lot of this is banking on Lalendra being scum. My first few games on here have taught me to trust my first instincts a lot more.

Start re-evaluating now

because if I get mislynched

you're going to have to do it anyway

LAMIST

Yep, but still true.

[Lalendra]

I mean, she has a good reason to say that, to be fair. Every game I've been in with Lalendra she's been mislynched D1 or D2.

Haha see Seph gets it <3

[Lalendra]

I should have just said "WHEN I get mislynched"

[Lalendra]

123 could be lamist but it could also be not so yeah let's not have this be too big of an argument tbh. Even town says stupid crap sometimes.

let your scumbuddy defend themselves plz.

Seph defended me too, any reason why you felt it necessary to respond to Roy but not to Seph?

[Lalendra]

123 could be lamist but it could also be not so yeah let's not have this be too big of an argument tbh. Even town says stupid crap sometimes.

let your scumbuddy defend themselves plz.

Seph defended me too, any reason why you felt it necessary to respond to Roy but not to Seph?

129 was not the same as 136 at all. 129 is kinda lol-meta shit. 136 was like... "hey, shh. sweep it under the rug"

I don't really feel like scum would be that obvious. "Yeah I guess it could be a scumtell but let's not talk about it HEY HOW ABOUT THAT SUPERBOWL"

[Lalendra]

I also enjoy that literally no one has pointed out the fact that it could just be a reaction test, or a post to get the game moving, or a prodge, or (what it actually was) my honest assessment that anyone who forms solid reads on page 2 is being a little reachy. It wasn't directed at anyone in general, it was a statement about the game.

[Lalendra]

Like if you think I'm scum, just vote me now and you'll have 6 pages of info and associatives going into day 2. But I guarantee that while I'm not the worst lynch, I'm definitely not the best.

[Lalendra]

There is an easy way to prove all of this. If Lalendra joins your wagon on me it confirms every read I've had all day. Roy will probably vote elsewhere coz he's the 'wildcard' who's job is to distract the town from you two so he'll probably distance himself.

Not sure I understand the point of stating this, as you've now made it WIFOM. i.e., if I vote you, your SR on me is confirmed; if I don't, you might have townread me if this wasn't stated, but now you can't because I might just be scum who is aware of this post and not wanting to confirm your SR of me? And self-voting is a bad play. If you're not scum, stop being anti-town.

[Lalendra]

While I agree with that, you if you are town shouldn’t care what he thinks. If you want to vote him, vote him. If not then no point in really discussing his post.

I don't necessarily agree with that. I think it's always worth pointing out when someone is trying to be manipulative.

[Lalendra]

Alright I don't want today to end in a no lynch so
VOTE: Roy choo choo

[Lalendra]

I feel like Arch is a more experienced player than I am and if he's not scum, his arguments are really bad. I don't like the quote thing, nor do I like the fact that he's trying to argue calling someone scummy = adhom. Maybe it's just a difference in playstyle but in the Chumba v Arch saga, I'm inclined to side with Chumba.

@Chumba - you said that you don't want to explain to Arch why you want Roy dead because there's no point in trying to convince scum to lynch a scumbuddy. So convince me. I am willing to vote for him, he's null!scum for me right now, but what are your reasons?

[Lalendra]

I'm keeping up with the game but haven't had much to say, sorry for not contributing. I'm having a hard time sorting this game, nothing is really pinging me hard.

[Lalendra]

Although she is a useless lurksack so in a way its hard to argue.

Rude

[Lalendra]

I don't know why but I can't get into this game and nothing is really pinging me. I guess for now I'm okay with VOTE: Roy unless something makes me feel differently. I don't necessarily agree that Prism is scum just because of the replace-out, I kind of like what I'm seeing from Stefan. Same with Fitz, though I always have trouble sorting him. Seph's sudden lack of content bothers me.

[Lalendra]

^ if no one's pinging you why vote Roy? Did he ping you? What are your current reads on Arch and moz?

Because people that I trust to be town are voting him and in the absence of any strong reads of my own, I will sheep people I believe to be town.

[Lalendra]

Your reaction is kind of enlightening... You just got EXTREMELY defensive there.

Agreed, I was leaning town!moz but that was a really over-the-top reaction.

[Lalendra]

@BU: you’re all over the place with your scum reads.

You’re absolutely convinced that prism “was” scum (#681) but you don’t vote for Stefan, Prism’s replacement. Instead, you vote Roy. Why not stick with your apparent super-confident read?

I think it's possible to get really strong reads on someone and then equally strong conflicting reads on their replacement. But I'm also interested in the answer here because it does seem odd.

[Lalendra]

Do you have any opinions you want to share or push? General posts like these help nobody. You're neither accusing me nor defending me with this so what has anybody gained?

I was trying to explain that you changing reads =/= you being inconsistent scum. That said, I'm content with your explanation, particularly the "there are too many conditionals for me to want to vote there". That seems like town thinking to me. I suppose it's possible you're making excuses for your scumbuddy as Nero believes, but that seems unlikely to me.

[Lalendra]

Lalendra...what's your current read on Archwing and mozamis?

Arch is town, Moz is scum, based on gut feels.

[Lalendra]

I should clarify those are leans, not hard reads.

[Lalendra]

@BU: you’re all over the place with your scum reads.

You’re absolutely convinced that prism “was” scum (#681) but you don’t vote for Stefan, Prism’s replacement. Instead, you vote Roy. Why not stick with your apparent super-confident read?

I think it's possible to get really strong reads on someone and then equally strong conflicting reads on their replacement. But I'm also interested in the answer here because it does seem odd.

Do you have any opinions you want to share or push? General posts like these help nobody. You're neither accusing me nor defending me with this so what has anybody gained?

yeah i agree it was a bit of a shade throwing post. More evidence that LLan could be scum.

So did you just ignore the follow up?

[Lalendra]

I should clarify those are leans, not hard reads.

i think i'm gonna vote Mulch, as there is a wagon on him, near deadline, good chance of him being scum etc
but this guy should be next.
The guy just sits on the fence the whole time.

*gal
*gal

My towngame is ridiculously fence-sitty. This is nothing new.

[Lalendra]

^ if no one's pinging you why vote Roy? Did he ping you? What are your current reads on Arch and moz?

Because people that I trust to be town are voting him and in the absence of any strong reads of my own, I will sheep people I believe to be town.

The only people voting Roy when you voted him were moz and Mulch.

Moz you scumread and Mulch/TGP you have not mentioned once.

So why did you vote Roy again?

Because I townread Mulch at the time. I'm not as sure now but still think he's more likely to be town. Moz I'm much less confident on and will vote there when I finish catching up if it's prudent.

[Lalendra]

OK yeah

VOTE: Mozamis

p-edit too late Arch lol

[Lalendra]

Agree with Arch, this doesn't look any different from the town!Mulch I've played with before. I'm inclined to believe that mulch v. stef is TvT and the real scum are coasting. We need to lynch Moz and not end today with a no-lynch.

[Lalendra]

Let’s lynch Lalendra

After BuJaber

Huh?

4) THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TOWN GLOBAL BACKUP. it’s called town universal backup

Hhahahahahaha

I didn't get any PM saying I'm innocent child. It's a passive role; Is it backup-able?

Goodbye

.
Omg this is the best fake claim ever holy shit

I didn't get a pm saying it. What was I supposed to assume?

l
NO PM CUZ IT'S FAKE

Christopher had his chance. He did post.
Lalandra is missing, but I don't know if there is really much she can say that has to be said today.

yeah no, three day weekend and D&D night so i hadn't been on yet. But i would have been racing to that hammer

[Lalendra]

I'm fine with claiming, I'm just VT.

[Lalendra]

Like if you think I'm scum, just vote me now and you'll have 6 pages of info and associatives going into day 2. But I guarantee that while I'm not the worst lynch, I'm definitely not the best.

This was me crumbing VT.

[Lalendra]

Next for lynch or next to claim?

(listen I never said I was good at crumbing, just that I did it lol)

[Lalendra]

Selfishly, I'd like to hear from Christopher next, since he and I appear to be the two most suspected currently.

[Lalendra]

I really don't like how quiet Seph has been, this is very different than the way he's played in the last few games I was in with him.

[Lalendra]

Yeah at this point I'm willing to lynch Christoper, it seems like he's being intentionally dense or just not reading the thread very closely...almost as if he knows who's town and doesn't need to analyse? Hmm

Also, thanks for pointing out that Seph was confirmed by Roy, I forgot about that.

[Lalendra]

Lal:

Yeah at this point I'm willing to lynch Christoper, it seems like he's being intentionally dense or just not reading the thread very closely...almost as if he knows who's town and doesn't need to analyse? Hmm

Also, thanks for pointing out that Seph was confirmed by Roy, I forgot about that.


Anyone else getting the irony between paragraph 1 and 2? Lal doesn't come of as intentionally dense but it sure feels like she isn't paying attention.

That's a fair point. I think I was more focused on the Mozamis lynch and had just forgotten about Seph entirely because he hasn't been spam-posting or getting into 1v1's the way I'm used to seeing.

[Lalendra]

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=74021

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=74451

I feel like Lalendra's play in these games are night and day compared to here. 2nd opinion?

My playstyle is all over the place depending on a variety of factors, particularly how busy I am at work, since that is where I do most of my posting. I haven't been as engaged in this game as I would like to be, I'll give you that.

Anyway, I'll put my money where my mouth is now.
VOTE: Christopher

[Lalendra]

Sorry I haven't been active, it was a busy weekend and today I am home with the flu. I will try to engage more tonight or tomorrow. I am reading and keeping up with the thread but for now I'm happy with where my vote is.

[Lalendra]

Interesting that Christopher is sillent again.

Yeah, the whole game more or less went silent, but I too find it odd that after being run up, and it being clear that he is today's lynch, he doesn't have anything to say. I know that he has already claimed VT but it seems like he would be trying to do something pro-town, just feels like caught scum. If he's not scum, then he and Seph have essentially lost us the game. (Christopher for not putting up a fight when he's about to be mislynched, and Seph for being conftown and not helping to scumhunt.)

[Lalendra]

Honestly I don't know what we need to wait for, I understand that we want to hear from Seph's replacement but at the same time, going silent like this is pretty damning. I don't see what we have to gain from waiting.

[Lalendra]

@Fitz - Just because I've been reading and not posting doesn't mean I can't have a strong opinion. If we want to wait for Seph's replacement that's fine, I just feel that:
a) We are asking a lot of a replacement who will need to replace in, read almost 50 pages of content and then have meaningful discussion with all of us in just 2 real world days.
b) We are pretty much all in agreement, I understand wanting to hear from conftown but if it doesn't change anything then it's just a waste of time.
c) Conftown can still be wrong, and if they are and we switch to a counterwagon on their say-so, quicklynch and it flips town, that's going to suck.
d) Seph's slot was conftown based on Roy's results but why are we so sure Roy is town? I remember everyone being fairly suspicious of him and now suddenly his results on Seph makes Seph conftown, I'm not sure why we are taking Roy 100% at his word without other corroborating information.

@Stefan - I didn't miss your question but I should have responded. I'd rather not answer it right now because I don't want to give scum any ideas just prior to the night phase, and I'd also like to have the information from the flip to factor into my analysis.

[Lalendra]

Aha, I had forgotten about that. Thank you.

Still feel that we're asking a lot from the replace-in, but as Stefan mentioned, some players can pull it off, and given that it is such a crucial role, I guess it does benefit us to wait. I just hope, as I said, that they don't lead us in the wrong direction.

[Lalendra]

Either faked or sad...bad either way.

Unfortunately I'm not that cunning. Just forgetful and lazy.

[Lalendra]

Poof - Havo appears.......

I believe most of you know me and know I’m not a very good mafia player so you’re just gonna have to suck it up and deal with it.

I’ll be catching up in the next few hours.

I replaced in sight unseen and it’s my first ever replace in so I just jumped in.

This might be the best entrance I've ever seen. Brutal honesty and self-awareness - I like it.

[Lalendra]

@Stefan - I didn't miss your question but I should have responded. I'd rather not answer it right now because I don't want to give scum any ideas just prior to the night phase, and I'd also like to have the information from the flip to factor into my analysis.

That would be a reason normally, but in this game, I don't think the risk of giving them ideas is that much of a danger...

Well, if you and Fitz think it's a good idea, here goes.

Havo - confirmed town
StefanB - strong townread. Actively trying to game-solve and advocating pro-town behavior in others.
havingfitz - strong townread. Aggressive playstyle, but invested in solving the game. Argued against lynching Christopher prior to Havo replacing in, which could be construed as trying to delay the inevitable for his buddy, but I think it was in fact town reasoning.
Nero Cain & Mulch - Last of the scumteam is in these two. Mulch is always difficult to sort, but his play here is different than when I played with him before and he was town. I've been getting bad vibes from Nero based on mostly gut. I haven't played with him before so I don't have any prior experience to go off of, but something just seems off without me being able to put my finger on it. PoE also says it has to be one of these two, based on my townreads, and both have gone mostly silent since the wagon built on Christopher, but I don't know which.

[Lalendra]

I didn't say you weren't. As I said, my scumread of either you or Mulch is based on PoE and gut.

[Lalendra]

Yay!!

I'm confused that there's only 2 scum but I'll take the win lol

[Lalendra]

Lal was interesting. I wavered from okay that could be a confused townie to WTF.

My entire MS life summed up in one sentence.

[Lalendra]

Yeah this was educational.

I don't have much experience im scum (and I don't enjoy it as much. I like the analysis part of the game) and then I rolled like 3 scum in a row in 6 games here or something.

I'm the opposite, I'm so sick of rolling VT lmao