Mini Normal 2081 — My First Game! [Game Over]

[chennisden]

Hi

[chennisden]

/in to spectate as chennisden2

[chennisden]

Lol at page 2

[chennisden]

but you're already /inned on this account

a free win for the low low price of your dignity

[chennisden]

Chennisden/Chennisden/Chennisden/Chennisden/Chennisden are town.

Cya.

[chennisden]

Dannflor is aligned with the town.

[chennisden]

Pisskop's claim is likely for reasons.

[chennisden]

Let's NOT have my slot voting obv town thanks.

UNVOTE:

[chennisden]

Hi Luv.

[chennisden]

Ooh Exilon thats a productive wagon

[chennisden]

I don't know whether your new vote is in the right place but thank you for unvoting pisskop

[chennisden]

Okay, but do you not think doc is a weird claim to make?

Also the immediate claim at L-1 threw me a bit, no one had announced intent then

Like I feel that scum fakeclaiming doc to try and force

the

real doc to come out wouldn’t make the fake claim until intent was posted

again, what's with the 'the'?

it implies that you think that there is definitely a doc in the game ... (otherwise you'd have said 'a' doc)
and this is a closed normal

oh hey.

im the doc

gg guys

not really sure that i believe

(also why 'the' doc?)

@dann what do u think of these?

Skitter is this TMI?

[chennisden]

There is also literally no reason for him to believe there can be another doc

[chennisden]

pisskop is town and mene can be scum

[chennisden]

Menelaus engaging people scumreading you is one thing but outright TRing them FOR scumreading you is not townie

[chennisden]

I think newb scum will do that

[chennisden]

Lol

[chennisden]

Menelaus has been trying to appease the people scum reading him instead of actually finding scum

[chennisden]

p sure viciouslamb is going to/is siteflaking, can we wagon someone else?

Yeah sure, I’ll get on sky, think that brings u to L-2

VOTE: sky

Also if sky flips red and I’m right that you calling her out was indicative of you being scum too do I win a record for earliest solve ever or something?

you have really seemed TMI this game

[chennisden]

yes oops

[chennisden]

I think menelaus spews his teammates if scum

[chennisden]

menalque MY FUCKING GOD

[chennisden]

I think Mena doesn't realistically just believe the claim unless he has sone sort of extra information

Either some PR or as scum

For

reasons

I think the latter is more likely than the former

[chennisden]

It's ok Dennis we all make those kinds of mistakes

Skitter for example spent two whole days addressing me as Egix

( <3 )

im gonna spend longer calling him menelaus

[chennisden]

maybe on purpose if there is no objection :p

[chennisden]

Exilon your play feels like idk Town taly for some reason

Menelaus dismissing you as scum without much reason in his readlist the same way he treated my slot and your methodical interactions make you town

[chennisden]

So I think exilon chen dann is a reliable towncore for now.

[chennisden]

Menelaus when you're on I'm gonna want to sort you

[chennisden]

Menelaus if you are scum your scumgame is very good

It's unfortunate that pisskop's claim is very likely and that paints you as the more likely scum over luv

[chennisden]

Skitter pisskop are my towncore candidates

[chennisden]

I SR menelaus but need to rehash with some live interactions

[chennisden]

Just for postgame lols

cinnamon/menelaus

[chennisden]

Before anything tho: pls stop calling me menelaus

ok menalque

[chennisden]

I haven't read Rob yet and will do so

[chennisden]

I'm starting to move towards the idea of one of Exilon/chennis being mafia, both of them are scumreading me but have gone about doing so in weird ways. I think this is a concerted effort to push towards a mislynch on a player they view as an easy target.

1) it was a lol/guess
2) you just scumclaimed

VOTE: cinnamon

[chennisden]

VOTE: Exilon

are you like, trying to die?

[chennisden]

Menalque the reason I didn't vote you is because the idea that your responses can change whether I vote you or not is powerful

[chennisden]

In any case my confidence on your scumread has been shaken a little while cinnamon feels like scum getting desperate.

I'll case him rn

[chennisden]

I forgot where I said this but Menalque the fact that you are good at both alignments is why I can't TR you willy nilly

[chennisden]

You not buckling down to pressure and holding your positions pretty much means you can do this as both alignments

[chennisden]

Read Robbnva first

ok dann

[chennisden]

Also I find Rob’s playstyle really toxic (I read another game where he seemed exactly the same) and I also find it really hard to read, so I’m saying right now that I’m open to policy lynching there if there’s not clear scum by EoD

Never mind. You're lining up a mislynch and you either have to be scum or scum to say this

[chennisden]

VOTE: Menalque

Good vote.

[chennisden]

I guess I’ll take a break for a couple days. Idk how else to calm down.

Maybe when people start actually scum hunting for real it’ll get better

I don’t know how to or I would have 10 years ago.

I seriously try to but when I see people using terrible logic, logic that has Ben disproven, I get upset

Like if we lose due to bs mislyches I’m seriously going to rage

Not trying to argue. If you’re town I am honestly wanting you to play better

Why are you getting frustrated at RVS?

This might be NAI but it does provide insight into his playstyle/personality

[chennisden]

In fact, I think Skygazer is the exact type of player to overdo the jokey-memey bravado like in 10, 27, 29, and 32 in order to cover up her scum play.

based on what?

Show me some scum games to support this theory.

she does this at both alignments and im not sure why this needs to be said

[chennisden]

Also I find Rob’s playstyle really toxic (I read another game where he seemed exactly the same) and I also find it really hard to read, so I’m saying right now that I’m open to policy lynching there if there’s not clear scum by EoD

Never mind. You're lining up a mislynch and you either have to be scum or scum to say this

Never mind my never mind

Town points for you Menalque

[chennisden]

Dann what are your thoughts on the interactions between chennis/exilon/myself? I think there's definitely scum in there.

Yes and it's quite blatantly you

[chennisden]

oh hey.

im the doc

gg guys

That really doesn’t read frustrated to you?

Not at all. A pr close to lynch should act differently

I agree with this and I'd normally push this back up to L-1

But I have

reasons

to believe this claim.

[chennisden]

I'm starting to move towards the idea of one of Exilon/chennis being mafia, both of them are scumreading me but have gone about doing so in weird ways.

I think this is a concerted effort to push towards a mislynch on a player they view as an easy target.

1) it was a lol/guess
2) you just scumclaimed

VOTE: cinnamon

How did I scumclaim?
Where do you think I sound desperate?

You're making up logic from the bottom of a whiskey bottle which is why Exilon has scumread you. In fact I'd say he's articulated his well. Before your interaction you were a bottom of the hat guess to Menalque's partner

Um, no? As scum I leave the LHF alone/defend them until I get to turn on them. I would go for the towniest person that can still be realistically lynched

recently "completed" scum game

Also if I was scum don't you think I'd have run up pisskop again? Given the gamestate I'd think it wouldn't be hard.

Especially if he wasn't scum, which I'm pretty sure is true for

reasons,

making his doc claim legit. All I'd have to do is push him hard and say "oops, didn't mean to kill the PR! his claim was just too sus to let go of though!"

[chennisden]

Cinnamon I'm obvtowning right now and Exilon is pretty much conf town

[chennisden]

If you're town please type the following:

Code: Select all

[vote]Menalque[/vote]

[chennisden]

And please never put "chenn" or "exilon" in the same sentence as "scum" unless it's to say "There is no way chenn/exilon are scum"

[chennisden]

I could've have pushed our doctor pisskop from the very beginning. Do you agree or not?

[chennisden]

let's say im scum

i need to get rid of the obv towns and QUICK

if i get pisskop lynched that leaves me free to shoot someone like dann

[chennisden]

it's a lot of reward without a lot of risk. if i fail i can just push oh someone like luv

[chennisden]

Cinnamon if you want to convince me you're town it's very easy what you do

[chennisden]

If you're town please type the following:

Code: Select all

[vote]Menalque[/vote]

[chennisden]

I'm starting to move towards the idea of one of Exilon/chennis being mafia, both of them are scumreading me but have gone about doing so in weird ways.

I think this is a concerted effort to push towards a mislynch on a player they view as an easy target.

1) it was a lol/guess
2) you just scumclaimed

VOTE: cinnamon

How did I scumclaim?
Where do you think I sound desperate?

You're making up logic from the bottom of a whiskey bottle which is why Exilon has scumread you. In fact I'd say he's articulated his well. Before your interaction you were a bottom of the hat guess to Menalque's partner

Um, no? As scum I leave the LHF alone/defend them until I get to turn on them. I would go for the towniest person that can still be realistically lynched

recently "completed" scum game

Also if I was scum don't you think I'd have run up pisskop again? Given the gamestate I'd think it wouldn't be hard.

Especially if he wasn't scum, which I'm pretty sure is true for

reasons,

making his doc claim legit. All I'd have to do is push him hard and say "oops, didn't mean to kill the PR! his claim was just too sus to let go of though!"

Chennis can you see where I'm coming from where I think that Exilon has misrepped me on a couple of occasions? That's what I mean by 'going about it in weird ways'. I don't see how that's 'bottom of a whiskey bottle' logic.
I'm also not sure how your 'I could have pushed on the docotor' makes you any more townie, you could just not push as scum to make this exact argument.

bottom of a whiskey bottle is a quote from Codin, from one of the newbies RAS cheated in

[chennisden]

you have completely ignored the menalque slot and that creates terrible associatives

[chennisden]

im asking you to not vote town and to vote someone who should be very likely to be scum from your pov

[chennisden]

We have to PoE from {Cinnamon/Menalque}

Your PoE only needs to be {Menalque}

[chennisden]

Contradictions 2: Electric Boogaloo/b]

I honestly feel like I'm getting pushed out of thin air here. Exilon is misrepping me, whether intentional or not and chennis isn't even providing valid reasons

"There's no reason to be pushing me, the cases are made of thin air."

I'm starting to move towards the idea of one of Exilon/chennis being mafia, both of them are scumreading me but have gone about doing so in weird ways. I think this is a concerted effort to push towards a mislynch on a player they view as an easy target.

By this, I did in fact mean that only one of them is mafia, I have a hard time believing they're both pushing on me when they're the only two pushing hard.

"Also when I believe that the cases on me are thin air, I will characterize myself as the easy mislynch LHF (low hanging fruit) townie"

[chennisden]

im asking you to not vote town and to vote someone who should be very likely to be scum from your pov

this is just about the only thing I understood

VOTE: chennis

you and menalque are ignoring each other to the point where it can be seen as scum not wanting to create associatives OR distance.

[chennisden]

anyway my comments on rob:

he should not live to lylo

[chennisden]

Cinnamon don't 1v1 me

I'm not going to get lynched, not today.

[chennisden]

Literally all it will take for me to reevaluate my read is for you to vote Menalque. You refuse to do that

[chennisden]

quick first ever readslist -
town
robb
dann
luv
exilon
skitter
pisskop
menalque
scum

HMM

[chennisden]

You've taken weak defensive stances on Menalque whenever you've needed to.

[chennisden]

VOTE: skygazer[/]

I wanted to vote for cinnamon

as a policy lynch

but now you’ve made it so that would be sheeping

You like should not be saying this

[chennisden]

You don't get to say "your play is bad" when you're the one who can only defend himself by saying "ur shit"

[chennisden]

Scum bus their buddies before they get rung up and when they get rung up they say "I see how they could be townie"

[chennisden]

Both

[chennisden]

Cinnamon if you want me to approach your slot in good faith saying "you're shit at the game" doesn't work

[chennisden]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=79718

evidence of menalque/cinnamon being good

[chennisden]

I'm not going to hand you a free TR for being more townie as scum than most newbies can muster

[chennisden]

You gave me a perfect chance to sort your slot

[chennisden]

And I've sorted it

[chennisden]

I do take back the point about associatives with Menalque though

[chennisden]

But the consensus PoE is

{cinnamon menalque luv pisskop}

and I'm not letting pisskop get rung up today.

[chennisden]

Pushing me is the wrong play as either alignment

[chennisden]

I'm kinda rethinking the menalque read

I'll join you on this

[chennisden]

Cinnamon if you want to force this 1v1 be my guest.

[chennisden]

But on the off chance you're town you can go lynch scum instead?

[chennisden]

there's two problems with pushing me as a scum lynch

1) im town
2) im not gonna get lynched

[chennisden]

1) you've voted me and i've voted you
2) maybe look at the fucking votecount
3) maybe think of the fact that menalque was killed night one and you endgamed

[chennisden]

if menalque as town can force scum to kill him NIGHT 1 then maybe he's just good at the game???

if you can endgame as scum there's no reason you can't make it past D1 as scum???

[chennisden]

You're making up so many lies it hurts. Nobody's talking about 1v1s but you. The consensus PoE list you made is terrible. You just linked to a game where I was town and used that to explain why you think I could look townie as mafia. I don't understand your play at all.

voting has two purposes

1) to provide pressure on someone so you can sort them
2) to push their lynch

are you trying to sort me? no
therefore you are pushing my lynch

[chennisden]

You know I was VT that game right? I won in the endgame as VT?

that means you didn't get mislynched so

[chennisden]

anyway that's tangential

[chennisden]

I want to hear skitter's thoughts.

[chennisden]

I'm gonna take a bit of a break from this game. This push on me is starting to feel really gross and I hope people can see that.

You won't buckle under pressure so stop pretending you do

Besides there's like two votes on you

[chennisden]

actually upon rereading i think menalque is town.

[chennisden]

for

reasons

[chennisden]

skitter ur town ty for your contribootion

[chennisden]

but i want to know your thoughts on the exchange

[chennisden]

tone and motivation

[chennisden]

mr im being misrepped is misrepping

[chennisden]

but i want to know your thoughts on the exchange

sorry, nto sure what you're talking about yet, reading in order

between me and cinna

[chennisden]

maybe i'll get what you're talking about when i finish catching up because that is very confusing

anyways i think exilon comes off better than cinn in their argument

hard agree

[chennisden]

I forgot where I said this but Menalque the fact that you are good at both alignments is why I can't TR you willy nilly

oh how do you know that he's good at both alignments - didn't he say he hasn't played scum in a few years?

because i don't think he buckles under pressure

which is something you need as both alignments

[chennisden]

Exil is scum, when can you wagon him


Exil is apparently trying to shame people into voting.

???? this is so bad, like what is this

i agree that this is

bad,

but for

reasons

the doc claim is likely legit.

[chennisden]

i said it's ALL it took

[chennisden]

big difference

[chennisden]

also don't vote menalque

[chennisden]

menalque is someone i can sort later

[chennisden]

UNVOTE:
i'm not really feeling this anymore, i think

I'm starting to move towards the idea of one of Exilon/chennis being mafia, both of them are scumreading me but have gone about doing so in weird ways. I think this is a concerted effort to push towards a mislynch on a player they view as an easy target.

1) it was a lol/guess
2) you just scumclaimed

VOTE: cinnamon

hm

UNVOTE:

I need to reread

I also want to know what skitter thinks of all this

But the consensus PoE is

{cinnamon menalque luv pisskop}

and I'm not letting pisskop get rung up today.

kinda think luv should be taken out of the poe imo

i also don't want LUV to die. but i wont defend him to the death

[chennisden]

cinnamon like can u accept ur reads are wrong

[chennisden]

yeah basically as i wrote that i was thinking either:

a) you're town on a completely different wavelength than everyone else
b) you're scum

i'm still kinda working it out/mulling it over

we don't have enough scum candidates so b) is more likely

[chennisden]

btw skitter ill push stupid stuff as either alignment

in the scumgame i linked in 701 i pushed NMSA (well for the little bit until our favorite player caused the game to end) very hard for calling me conf scum because i stopped a joke fakehammer from nero cain

[chennisden]

chen dann skitter exilon

[chennisden]

the dont touch pile

[chennisden]

in a world where you aren't mafia, you wouldn't be spewing this shit to survive

[chennisden]

Good read on me Menalque.

[chennisden]

and like why do u think there's one scum in {exilon/chennis/skitter} ...

Because I'm so far off of what you guys are thinking and I don't think this just naturally happens when we're all town. This hasn't happened in any other game.

if one of us is scum, who's the one pocketing the other two?

[chennisden]

I think this is probably a shitton of TvT that scum is happily sitting back and watching unfold because it leads to a mislynch and weakens whoever pushes that mislynch for D2

Menalque I literally never get lynched for

reasons

[chennisden]

I also think cinnamon is scum and if he flips town, the town will know they need to reevaluate

[chennisden]

skitter - As I just said, I don't think town!skitter takes the stance that she has here, she doesn't look at pretty much any of chennis' awful arguments. I think she wants a mislynch on me here.

i mean, htis kinda reads like you're accusing everyone saying they find you scummy as being possible scum looking to mislynch you; earlier it was exilon/chenn and once i said something similar i got added to the group too - there's only two scum i this game and even suggesting hat both scum would blatantly team up this way to mislynch you feels kinda like a silly suggestion

^ this

[chennisden]

in a world where you aren't mafia, you wouldn't be spewing this shit to survive

How can you believe this guy is town when he's more concerned with looking good than actually gamesolving?

because i've already "solved" that ur scum

and now i need to outcharisma you to get the lynch?

[chennisden]

Are these reasons the same ones why you believe the pisskop claim or different ones?

Different.

My reasons for believing the pisskop claim are speculatory

The reason I won't get lynched is pretty concrete

[chennisden]

It's not that you're scumreading me, I'm starting to feel better on Exilon and he's been tunneling me the whole game. It's that you saw everything chennis just posted and your response was 'chennis is v townie'

cuz it was unless he's super bravado-y as scum; i'll try to do some research on that if i have a chance

As scum I push pisskop

[chennisden]

His claim is really scummy

His reads feel off

His tone and motivation don't read townie

But I'm pretty sure his claim is legit and this is something we'll get into later

All I have to do is, you know, not SAY that his claim is likely legit and just wagon him

[chennisden]

Menalque if you spew yourself town by end of day we win

[chennisden]

I think you're townie but I'd like you to spew yourself as so obvtown that you remove every doubt from everyone

[chennisden]

I think chen is town, I don’t think scum flip flops like this on my slot so much

@cinn

I'll also answer this; I never voted him because I wanted to approach his slot in good faith and sort it.

Your slot on the other hand I think I've already sorted, but I want to approach every slot in good faith until I'm completely confident

[chennisden]

Not sure what you mean by spew myself town? Like post a lot in a town way?

Yes

Mechanically and tonally

You're doing a good job of it rn

[chennisden]

Man either somebody is really wrong on chen or I'm just super wrong about everything right now

I like to think I'm ok at scum but there's no way I pocket every townie player rn

[chennisden]

Menalque you are on my don't touch for D1 list

[chennisden]

Pisskop is on my don't touch for D1 list

[chennisden]

That leaves LUV Emerald and Cinna

[chennisden]

I don't want to touch LUV

[chennisden]

And

{chen skitter exilon dann} is our don't touch ever list

[chennisden]

I don't think that the argument skitter is pocketing me works? Because I've been objectively towny

[chennisden]

im in the same timezone dab

[chennisden]

And

{chen skitter exilon dann} is our don't touch ever list

To me this is just tilting, I don't see this as townie play at all.

establishing a don't touch ever list is useful for many reasons

[chennisden]

Not that it's all that alignment indicative, but it's just not town play.

? ? ?

reads are alignment indicative

[chennisden]

if exilon is not obvious consensus town it's because scum are trying to keep him from it

[chennisden]

anyway my comments on rob:

he should not live to lylo

Pretty sure Rob is almost always town here

disagree that he should die before lylo

meh this is something we can sort out later

also this has been redacted by me (i believe)

[chennisden]

It's not that you have a reads list it's that you keep listing yourself in it and are always talking about yourself as a never lynch. I just personally find it really annoying, not alignment indicative.

because my play is really townie and

reasons

ur just annoyed that you cant mislynch town me leading the lynch on a member of the scum team

[chennisden]

Cinnamon / Menalque aren't s/s I don't think

agree with this

[chennisden]

Chennis can only be scum if pisskop is also scum

And I think pisskop scum is unlikely though possible

[chennisden]

Chennis can only be scum if pisskop is also scum

actually i don't even i CAN be scum

if pisskop is scum i dont make it really obvious that we're buddies as scum

[chennisden]

Dann what is your read of cinnamon

[chennisden]

cinnamon if it helps ur the one who spewed me town

[chennisden]

no u

[chennisden]

i lolguessed menalque/cinnamon as the scumteam for the postgame funs

then he tried to push chen/exilon as having 1 scum for us "pushing him with no logic"

[chennisden]

You claimed town reads on 5 other people then put me in a possible team. Am I supposed to read that as anything other than scumreading or at least scumleaning me?

no

ur not supposed to be defensive though

[chennisden]

Chennis can only be scum if pisskop is also scum

This is why I think it's very very unlikely I'm lynched

[chennisden]

Skitter's potential partners: any people who haven't posted recently like LUV, maybe Robb, , maybe Exilon or pisskop (doubtful)

skitter and dann have spewed themselves town recently

exilon's next posts will also spew him town

[chennisden]

ok I'll cut to the chase

I think this is scum theatre between skitter and cinnamon right now

no reason not to vote cinnamon then

[chennisden]

ok I'll cut to the chase

I think this is scum theatre between skitter and cinnamon right now

no reason not to vote cinnamon then

but I'm scum reading skitter more individually

if cinnamon flips green we can evaluate skitter d2

[chennisden]

ok I'll cut to the chase

I think this is scum theatre between skitter and cinnamon right now

no reason not to vote cinnamon then

but I'm scum reading skitter more individually

if cinnamon flips green we can evaluate skitter d2

why can't you evaluate now? what would you do if I was an IC here?

i would still call you out on your shit

[chennisden]

why not now? because skitter imo is pretty blatantly town

[chennisden]

ok I'll cut to the chase

I think this is scum theatre between skitter and cinnamon right now

no reason not to vote cinnamon then

but I'm scum reading skitter more individually

if cinnamon flips green we can evaluate skitter d2

why can't you evaluate now? what would you do if I was an IC here?

i would still call you out on your shit

If you're town your play has been seriously terrible. At least try to consider a world where I'm town because that's the world we're in.

ive been trying

and it requires a lot of mental gymnastics

every post im trying to find a reason to see it as town and well i really CAN'T

im not going to call you trash at town because you aren't town

[chennisden]

I'm currently have a tinfoil hat theory that the scum team is something like Robb's slot/LUV and this whole conversation is just TvT where I don't understand anything that's going on

if you flip green this won't be very tinfoil.

[chennisden]

i don't think scum skitter will bus like this

[chennisden]

i feel like cinnamon tried to discredit me to some extent when i pushed him and now that he's realized it's not working, he's vaguely trying to appeal to the towncore by saying stuff like "this is probably TvT lol wouldn't that be funny" while leaving his discrediting options open

[chennisden]

Okay hold up seriously how is a skitter/me team being considered here the interactions we've had all game are just not things a scum team have

This is the first townie thing you've said in a long time

[chennisden]

I mean, in a game of this size, if we're saying Cinnamon is scum

I think if he senses he might be lynched, he's gonna want to make his partner look as good as possible as he goes down, which basically just leaves [chennis, skitter, exilon]

and I think skitter's interactions here look the worst

I could be getting in too deep on the pre flip associatives though

exilon pushed him WAY too early to be scum

[chennisden]

as scum i would just make offhand comments about how cinnamon is scum and not really push that direction

[chennisden]

I'm currently have a tinfoil hat theory that the scum team is something like Robb's slot/LUV and this whole conversation is just TvT where I don't understand anything that's going on

if you flip green this won't be very tinfoil.

last thing though - you said you were looking for anything townie from me at all. Is making a theory, that FYPOV is quite possible in the event that I'm town, not trying to gamesolve?

i see more scum than town motivation

i do agree that a cinnamon/skitter team isn't something i'd hedge my bets on

but this is really easy; d2 i promise you skitter will be sorted beyond a reasonable doubt.

[chennisden]

d2 i promise you skitter will be sorted beyond a reasonable doubt.

Why do you say this

I have a meta tell

[chennisden]

Skitter is townie

Dannflor if you believe cinna/skitter is s/s then pls vote cinna with us

[chennisden]

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=79861&start=50

only one is a marathon

[chennisden]

night

[chennisden]

Exil is scum, when can you wagon him


Exil is apparently trying to shame people into voting.

But i have done no reading to verify that.

Why aren’t we lynching here again?

I

know

you want to lynch here and in all honesty I want to as well.

But his claim is likely real for reasons. So please, not today.

[chennisden]

I haven't read Rob yet and will do so

Why did you delay reading Rob?

Because other slots were more important for me to sort

[chennisden]

Exil is scum, when can you wagon him


Exil is apparently trying to shame people into voting.

But i have done no reading to verify that.

Why aren’t we lynching here again?

Well for one, Chennis apparently has “reasons” to say the claim is real

That are based on setup speculation with no flips.

don't ask me to elaborate on my reasons D1.

D2 i promise i'll either give you a satisfactory reason to leave pisskop alone or i will personally kill him.

[chennisden]

pisskop i'd like you to prove that with your play

[chennisden]

pisskop ur the one who's getting urself lynched

[chennisden]

Are these reasons the same ones why you believe the pisskop claim or different ones?

Different.

My reasons for believing the pisskop claim are speculatory

The reason I won't get lynched is pretty concrete

Don’t follow the solve the setup philosophy. Do you think PK’s play come from town? Why or why not?

no, and the reason is plenty obvious

[chennisden]

tell you what I'm not going to defend pisskop anymore

and if the lynch happens it happens

[chennisden]

IF YOU ARE A POWER ROLE -- ANY POWER ROLE -- DO NOT COUNTERCLAIM. WAGON PISSKOP.

[chennisden]

as it stands anyone CCing pisskop is more likely to be believed by me

[chennisden]

but for now pisskop can be the doc

[chennisden]

shading me is against your wincon as either alignment

[chennisden]

im not feeling it anymore

UNVOTE:

[chennisden]

if we get nothing i'd be down to circle back to cinnamon

but rn i want to sort pisskop

[chennisden]

i believe the claim less and less each day

[chennisden]

I also don't like this kind of hedging on pisskop:

and it's not hedging, it's me saying multiple things:

a) in an ideal universe i'd like a sketchy claim to be resolved by being nk'd. like if someone claims cop and they're not dead before endgame that's p suspicious. so like in a vaccuum a doc claim i'd kinda expect to be dead overnight - which means i don't have to sort it or resolve it or think about it too much, it'll get taken care of for me

the thing is that if someone is scummy enough scum might not nk them because they think they can mislynch them - which means that the slot won't flip at night from getting nk'd, which means it is my problem and i have to try to figure it out

that's basically what i was trying to express there - which universe do we live in - the one where town!pisskop get's nk'd, or the one where he doesn't. and rn i think it's the latter if pisskop is town, which means i need to figure out the claim
and rn my feeling is that i don't believe it but lynching it before massclaim or a night is dumb so lynching him today is not a good idea and i'll re-evaluate tomorrow
b) ungated cops in a micro are p unlikely, which is another reason why i'm skeptical

you're confusing nuance and trying to evaluate the claim from several angles as 'hedging'

i've done this as scum before in the one of many games RAS ended before it was completed

he was in the lynchpool and might've been lynched for our win

[chennisden]

ordered - {chenn exilon skitter dann}
{gamma luv}
{menalque pisskop cinnamon}

[chennisden]

ive seen a lot of doc lynches go through despite the doc being obviously legit. but im not going to tell people to stop touching pisskop's slot because this slot is something that NEEDS to be touched.

[chennisden]

i asked you to show me where you think I'm wrong.

you have tangented into this thing where you raise your hands and say 'im not responsible' in the most conspicuously unflattering way

exilon and dann are obv town

your other two reads i dont have much problem with

[chennisden]

oh right i also hard disagree with your cinnamon townread

[chennisden]

if RAS told me the team was cinnamon/pisskop i could see it

[chennisden]

cinnamon is posting so much more townie that it feels like he's been coached

[chennisden]

and i think pisskop would take a defensive stance on cinnamon at this point of the game

[chennisden]

but idk pisskop might fake a commit to a push on his buddy

[chennisden]

I'm gonna have a long day ahead of me today and not much time to post; I wanna try and touch on a heatpoint for me rq tho

@cinn
Regarding what Menalque pointed out about you scumreading those that push you or scumread you. What are your thoughts on that feedback? I would like if you could go as deep as possible on this.

I think it's fair. In my completed game as well as this one I've pushed on almost everybody that's pushed on me, I find it's easier to determine their alignment and if they're actually trying to sort me by pressuring them.

Spoiler:

One thing that I would really like to hear about are reads on the SEs and their interactions so far. I really don't like that they are all thinking along the same lines, as they generally think that the mafia are between Bob, Voted, and myself and unless the team is exactly Bob/Voted they're wrong FMPOV. I'm not reading town from either Bob or Voted but I think it would be useful to see other possibilities entertained as it seems somewhat suspicious to me that three different people with experience in the game would come to very similar wrong conclusions if they are all town. What seems more likely in my eyes is that there is at least one mafia there who is doing a great job at misleading town.

I apologize on one part; when I looked through yesterday I thought I saw a townread on Bob from you, when that was somebody else.

You seemed inconsistent when you posted about pushing a team of Bob/myself when that was clearly quite unlikely, then shifting to talking about a Bob/Voted team despite having mentioned me specifically as acting scummy a number of times without specific mention of either of Bob or Voted. I thought that was weird.

I mean I’m not just unvoting because i think he’s mislynch bait
He doesn’t show survivalism

I’m really struggling to nail down any strong scumreads
Navneet might be scum and I’d compromise there
Someone sell me on town!cinnamon because their participation in marathons showed me they are skilled as scum

I haven't really talked about this at all yet, but you've been constantly bringing up the idea that I seem scummy. Is there anything in particular that makes you feel this way? It seems really odd that you've been focusing on me so much with statements like this that aren't talking about what I've been doing in this game that is indicative of scum.

Menalque, could you explain why you think me townreading you in two posts is 'trying to pocket [you] super hard' whereas Irrelephant (for example) townreading you in really the same number of posts is not?

I struggle to see the logic behind that.

Irrelephant then Menalque pushed me there for reasons that don't make a large amount of sense to me, which I find pretty suspicious.

Brief thoughts from mobile:

I don’t have much faith in tone as a way of reading things and I still think eggs has done the scummiest thing so far objectively. That said, I’m aware that he’s being mostly read as town who made a genuine slip. For now, I’m leaving my vote where it is, but I’ll change if (a) someone does something I think is objectively more scummy or (b) we start getting closer to the deadline and there’s still no appetite for an eggs wagon.

Regarding SEs: I’m encouraged by the fact they’re reading similarly. If there were only two, I’d be a lot more concerned that they were mafia backing each other. In the current situation I feel like the third would have called them.

If we’re not going for eggs then I’d be okay with getting on voted or cinnamon. I honestly don’t see why Bob is being scumread. I’ll try to post something longer tomorrow.

Another question for you Menalque - I notice that here, you state that you were comfortable with the SEs because they were all reading similarly and they had yet to call each other out. In your reads list, you also have all three SEs at the top of your town list. Has recent discussion from them done anything to change your opinion on this?

Lynching for information is a terrible play (in this scenario). Saying you want to lynch me then Voted (since I'll flip town), completely ignoring the possibility that literally anybody else is mafia doesn't make any sense to me and I'm not sure why you're trying to push this. I really struggle to see why you aren't really considering the possibility that the mafia team looks something like (Irrelephant, Eggs) and Irrelephant has been doing a great job of making sure the discussion is off of Eggs or really any other number of possibilities here. Just because the SEs are talking doesn't mean they're advancing the game in a way that helps town.

Lynching for information is a terrible play (in this scenario). Saying you want to lynch me then Voted (since I'll flip town), completely ignoring the possibility that literally anybody else is mafia doesn't make any sense to me and I'm not sure why you're trying to push this. I really struggle to see why you aren't really considering the possibility that the mafia team looks something like (Irrelephant, Eggs) and Irrelephant has been doing a great job of making sure the discussion is off of Eggs or really any other number of possibilities here. Just because the SEs are talking doesn't mean they're advancing the game in a way that helps town.

Gonna have to disagree with you there, Cinnamon. We need a lynch. I’m still hoping that it will be voted, but unless some more people get on board, it’s looking like that might not happen. Although I’d still be happy to lynch eggs, I think that’s unlikely. So that leaves, in my eyes, you or nav!slot. I’m not sold on nav as I think he went inactive too early in the game to read him as scum.

You, on the other hand, I’ve been going back and forth on but I’ve always thought eggs and voted seemed more susp than you. If neither of those wagons is happening, then I’m okay with lynching you. I’m not omniscient so I could well be wrong about eggs and/or voted, they’re just my best picks based on the evidence so far as I see it.

If you do flip town, then that means we went the wrong direction D1 and indicates to me that we should go for the person who’s seemed scummiest so far (i.e. Voted). I also note that you ignored that I did say that if the nightkill revealed additional information then I’d be happy to go another direction D2.

The fact that you’re misrepresenting what I was saying and portraying a perfectly logical argument (we need a lynch, the two lunches I prefer don’t seem to be going right now, you’re the best lynch for being plausible scum and giving information) as illogical isn’t helping your case.

The thing is that I think that if we lynched cinnamon and he flipped scum then it throws off a lot. So I kinda wanna lynch him for that reason. But if we lynch voted and he flips scum then that'd leave me feeling good about an eggs/nav!slot Lynch D2.

Either way, I don't think I'm pushing you that hard right now, but I'm open to getting on you because I think lynching you would be one of the best options in terms of overall information, see #338.

To me this literally states that your reason for lynching me is primarily for information. I don't believe I misrepresented anything you were saying.

Secondly, I ignored the part about power roles because I don't think Voted would be a good check even if there was a Neapolitan/Cop in the game. There's much more influential players and knowing their alignments would be much more useful. If we are talking about ignoring parts of the other person's post, I notice you did not respond at all to what I said about how players that look to be advancing the game are not necessarily doing it to the benefit of town.

I'm not liking Cinnamon near the start. I find he's playing it a bit safe. Especially around 154. I don't like how after Irrelephant challenges what he said he still posts that he thinks irrelephant is scummy but then after seems to backpedal a bit by saying he's not that scummy though and removing his vote. Also some of his wording in 154 seemed safe to me. (Small inconsistencies instead of just inconsistencies, saying it could just be this but I see it more of this makes backpedaling after easier.)

I like eggs for town. Mainly because of 102 (But I like his posts in general). If he were scum he's really not attempting to keep his options open and even when he found some minor things he didn't like he wasn't actively trying to push it which reads as town to me.

Eggs and Cinnamon are my stronger town reads right now.

What made you change your mind about cinnamon?

I think I like menalque. His entrance while being fluff came off as natural. I don't like his push on eggs but he does make some good points that seem like they could come from a town scumhunting pov even though they are a bit of a stretch as someone mentioned. I do like his points made against voted though. His scumhunting appears to be natural to me.

Also related to above, I didn't feel Voted's defense to Menalque's push was sufficient. Self-meta especially is never a good argument in my opinion.

Irrelephant is a strong townlean.

I am also starting to like Eggs less, I previously had a null read on them but their last few posts have seemed somewhat scummy to me.

Can you elaborate on this?



As of now I would be most willing to lynch cinnamon or Voted but I would much rather vote on cinnamon for now.
VOTE: cinnamon

Frankly, I'm starting to become a bit frustrated that flimsy arguments like this have been pushed against me for the whole game. Irrelephant has been doing it this whole time and now other people are jumping in on it. I can't see how you see just purely early game tone as 'playing it a bit safe' - I've been posting this whole time with all my opinions out there and I think that this particular argument should not hold water. When I unvoted I was unvoting flavor, who I was townreading. I was not unvoting irrelephant. There was no backpedal there at all, just me pointing out something I thought was peculiar from irrelephant but also recognizing that it is a weak read.

This was all from my last game, I basically pushed back on anybody pushing me to determine if they were doing it in good faith or not.

you also tell people that their cases are flimsy when that is anything but true.

i think that's a

you

thing rather than a scum thing. if you're town you want to charisma your way out of a lynch

you also tend to hard spew the people pushing you as town

[chennisden]

read rule 19 pls

[chennisden]

daytalk is also the standard

[chennisden]

yup i think i've hit something.

[chennisden]

yes

[chennisden]

my interaction with cinnamon spews me town and heavily implies he's scum

[chennisden]

if you didn't read it yet i'll give you a pass for now.

[chennisden]

He can't be coached if there's no daytalk. there's no rule stating daytalk exists in this normal game.


thats p reachy chenn

i asked you to show me where you think I'm wrong.

you have tangented into this thing where you raise your hands and say 'im not responsible' in the most conspicuously unflattering way

eww way to engage chenn

of skitter

ambivalent

the team should be in:

luv
exil
mel
dann

Tell you what.

I fairly hard-TR cinnamon as a newb
I did kind of force the initial melanque push.
LUV is scummy
I mostly tred rob
I felt less that about dann
and if you are town it should be simple to see that.

So where are my reads most wrong?

[chennisden]

p: so it is.

but i mean that implies you think Im good enough to coach him. you don't know me first of all.

I've played with your alt.

second, if I'm reading you right buns been posting so obvtown you think it's suspect to be that town?

He's not obvtown. He's just not posting as obvscum anymore and I don't think a newbie usually has the self awareness to back off like that in a manner that gets everyone off of him.

third, thats baseless accusations that also apply to any player worth their age. Dann, rob, luv, amd exil

I think it's most likely you because of the timing. Exil wouldn't have bussed cinnamon to the point where it spews me town, LUV would've done it earlier, Dann would've done it earlier, and it happened after rob replaced out.

[chennisden]

I'm not lyunching pisskop today

My thought process is very closely mirroring skitter in most everything in these last few pages it's almost she's me

i don't intend for that to happen either

i just want to put enough pressure on pisskop to respond and he has.

[chennisden]

^ reminder that exilon should be treated as conf town

[chennisden]

im wanting the cinnamon lynch more and more.

[chennisden]

They aren't fake reads per se, I know if somebody's pushing me they're either wrong or scum so I have something to go off of. That's primarily why I push them in the first place.

There's also this to add to the confusion.

You say your behaviour when applying this playstyle is scummy. If understandably people push you for it, then they're not actually wrong, are they?
How does your strategy work then?

I feel like you're making this a lot more complicated than it has to be. If somebody pushes me, I push them back a bit. I get a good read from that.

then please explain why you don't get that exilon is obv town and im obv town