Mini 1755: Game Over


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AxleGreaser
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Post Post #2400 (ISO) » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:33 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2398, RadiantCowbells wrote:I wasn't trying to get her lynched IMMEDIATELY.

I wanted to see how Ircher would react to the claim.


Yes I think that was pretty much covered in list of reasons explicitly not fake claim.
Wiki on fake claiming wrote:
When should I REALLY not fake a guilty?
[..]
3 To "shake things up" because the town is playing terribly.

You had L-1 on your UTL scum read (but had not noticed)
You got your read hammered by someone who didn't according to you believe your fake claim (not sure boon has ever said)

but you are so desperate for a read on Ircher who is being an idiot, that you risk outing yourself (and it happens),
where if you stay hidden just bit longer you RB becomes fully investigative.

It is indeed all about what you want.

Fixed quote tag --Dier
Last edited by Dierfire on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #2401 (ISO) » Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:17 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Massive was never going to believe my cop claim.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #2402 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:42 am

Post by massive »

No, but UTL did. By the time I could come in and explain that "cop + doc" is viewed as overpowered in this day and age (especially compared to scum power level), it had already been Boon'ed. If Boon hadn't quickhammered, there was a chance she could have blown up or made some associative plays that later cleared some more people. (Not like I wasn't already working against at least half a town I knew I could never get lynched.)

One of the things that I needed to learn after coming back to the game after four or five years was that "just scumhunting" isn't enough any more -- this is a team game and there's a real amount of work that needs to go into determining who is on your team and then working with those people to attain your shared goal. It's still something I am fairly bad at, but I still don't get a "W" in the win/loss column if I'm completely correct in my scumreads but the town still loses, so that's why I keep trying.
"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!
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Post Post #2403 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:49 am

Post by droog »

i miss cop
no one runs setups with cop anymore
there are a lot of interesting ways to balance cop
without immediately degrading into a setup based on one role
"...probably the worst player I have had the pleasure of playing with in the last ten years..."
"i dislike this guy immensely"
"the worst townie that ever I have ever had the misfortune to play with, by a long shot"
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Post Post #2404 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:48 pm

Post by Performer »

In post 2363, Ircher wrote:Can anyone give me a review of my play?

-You voted and unvoted too quickly, at times. Give it time, maybe a page or more to see how people interact (or how they don't interact), regarding your vote. You can gain valuable information that way
-Learn how to better read people as town and scum. A number of people don't manipulate their meta very well, like myself and SilverWolf for instance. You can find out more about my playstyle in my Wiki webpage, the link you'll find in my profile
-Try not to lynch high-quality players early on (like day 1). RC is a wildcard but I've come to find out he's very sharp as town. pk seems to be pushy as town, as he has his own way of scumhunting - but he's also quite sharp as town too. As for newer players that you're not familiar with, if they're not producing quality content, a general rule I follow is to vote them if there are no other strong scumreads
-When you're wagoned, perform wagon analysis. Go into why you believe each person voted for you
-When people are lurking heavily and/or not scumhunting, you should call them out on that. Don't let them get away with this, as it's dangerous to town
-PROTECT your PRs . For example, in d1, if someone claims PR, you do NOT want to keep your vote on them unless you want to increase your chance of loss
-If people aren't making sense, ask them to clarify. If they still aren't making sense, they could be scum
-If people continue to not answer your questions, they could be scum
-If people vote you or someone for super-strange reason ("he's playing differently here than the other game," for example), they could be scum
-Look at people's reasoning to determine where they're coming from
-By d3, if there was no scum lynch, this means you should adjust your play accordingly. The other reason is other Townies aren’t playing skillfully enough in lynching scum
-On d4 and onward, mass claiming can be a great idea to out scum
-Halfway through a day phase, especially after d1, we should get a wagon to L-1 to force a claim. However, on d1, if we end up with no lynch, that can still help town since it minimizes chance of a PR mislynch or PR nk – overnight, the town PRs do work and find information…AFTER d1 though, no lynch is generally bad for town because it causes superfluous suspicion
-FoS X for…
-Cops should ideally be targeting people they have trouble reading, to maximize the information gain, so if you were well-townread in game you can minimize the chance you are investigated.
-If you’re a PR like Tracker, Cop, or Follower, and you discover something about someone else – and they end up revealing the next day your, you should play carefully so that your play doesn't automatically indicate things about yourself. You do NOT want to risk yourself AND the other PR on the same phase, generally speaking
-why were the nk targets targeted, analyze vote counts for who they targeted, order of claims, look at connections between flipped scum and pr votes
-reasons for no nk: scum didn’t submit an nk target, Bp was hit, Jailkeeper/Roleblocker action, someone was protected by a Doctor
-Don't drop a case if you're being ignored because then you become That Guy in the post-game. There may be a reason behind your being ignored, and you want to root that out as soon as possible. Be annoying about your case. Start bugging people individually about why they're not giving it attention. Aim for the most likely town player who happens to have more charisma than you.
-Before we policy lynch someone, we have to carefully consider what information we can gain from that. If we don’t gain information from that regardless of the flip, then we must seriously consider better alternatives.
-Collaborate with others - you have strength in numbers. Work on logical, consistent, truthful arguments, which are pro-town.
-Keeping things clear and concise is usually a good way to go
-Stay active since town mistrusts lurkers; when breadcrumbing as PR, you may want to breadcrumb in d1 so you can refer back to breadcrumbs in order to make them more believable; do wagon analysis when you’re heavily wagoned; don’t put forth too many convoluted hypothetical cases because that’ll be tough to defend and scum will twist that to mislynch you; don’t just take someone’s word for it - ask why they townread you; on d1 if someone fake claims, we can have no one cc, therefore overnight, we can find have the PRs use their actions, the next day we can find out if the d1 claim was truthful, and decide from there on who to lynch; vote count analysis, night kill analysis (discovering motives), what the dead posted
-because Vanilla Townies have no special powers (active powers), they have to depend on traditional scumhunting methods - analysis of actions, intent, voting, previous posts, etc. - to win; The most practical purpose a Vanilla Townie has is its capacity to draw the Mafia's Night-kill away from power roles via Day play. A Vanilla Townie may also attempt gambits they would not consider otherwise (if they were PR), such as fake claims (which are highly dependent on a number of factors). If you somehow during the game, get the possibility to reveal a lie, don’t hesitate to do it, even though it would mean your probable demise soon (as it’ll turn you into a confirmed innocent, most likely the next target for the Mafia ). Trading a Townie’s life for a Mafia member is always a good deal for the Town. As you can see, by just staying out of the way and avoiding getting lynched, investigated or protected, a Townie can help his group a great deal. The less people yelling “this and that are Mafia”, the more clearly the situation can be analyzed. I’m not saying all the Townies should shut up every game. That’s incorrect, as it would encourage Mafias being silent as well, and help them blend in the crowd. What I AM saying is that, in order to be a good Townie, you have to use your brain before posting, ESPECIALLY before voting, and never hesitate to sacrifice yourself if the situation allows for it. Add to that acting in a non-suspicious manner, and you’ve increased the Town’s chances greatly
-Be aware of the weak points of your reads list. For instance you may be townreading scum and scumreading town, which is one critical reason you could be left alive throughout nights.
-If you are suspicious of people who turn out town after all, at least it won’t cost us a power role by lynching. If you assume that town always tell the truth about their role (which they should), then lynching a VT claim is inherently safer than lynching a power-role claim. That's not to say that claiming VT is a surefire way to get lynched - you should judge people on their play in the current game
-I think I gave a bit of advice a few pgs ago as well, for your play

-----
If you have anymore specific questions, feel free to let us know.
And remember, please don't ask questions about ongoing games.
I’m an informed Miller who knows there isn’t any Loyal modifiers and there is a total of 4 scum.
-Morality
I'm easily the best person in the game at mechanics. I don't presume to be the best at anything else.
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People tried
-RadiantCowbells
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Post Post #2405 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2016 6:46 pm

Post by N »

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