Mini 1787: Peruvian Nightclub Mafia (Game End!)

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: heuristically_alone

This isn't an rvs vote, this is an actual read and its' not changing for the rest of the day

[Dunnstral]

Hey, that's cool. I actually only played for like less than a year in 2007 before I quit the site. Only came back a year or two ago.

I played for several years then just came back a week ago! but weirdly like half of the people I remember being friends with had April 2007 registration dates?

Obvious distancing, found the maf team

[Dunnstral]

Hey, that's cool. I actually only played for like less than a year in 2007 before I quit the site. Only came back a year or two ago.

I played for several years then just came back a week ago! but weirdly like half of the people I remember being friends with had April 2007 registration dates?

Obvious distancing, found the maf team

Your read isn't changing for the rest of the day.

13 people there's at LEAST 3 mafia

But I see you dumbtelling

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: iraonavp
Voting someone who hasn't even talked

like the mafia

This isn't an rvs vote, this is an actual read and its' not changing for the rest of the day

[Dunnstral]

are you normally this "hey look at me trying so hard to look town"?

I wouldn't really say I'm doing that

VOTE: iraonavp
Voting someone who hasn't even talked

like the mafia

This isn't an rvs vote, this is an actual read and its' not changing for the rest of the day

A little confused here. Is there like an inside joke between you and zach that I'm not getting? And are you joking about being serious?

You think this is a game?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: iraonavp
Voting someone who hasn't even talked

like the mafia

This isn't an rvs vote, this is an actual read and its' not changing for the rest of the day

Robert2424 has talked, though.

Whoops you're right

UNVOTE: iraoanvp

No maf here

You think this is a game?

Are you a Lapsa alt? Be honest now.

No clue who that is

Also pretty sure reading what Robert said - he's not voting because he's going vla

[Dunnstral]

Probably not

[Dunnstral]

Oh hold on

"I'm trying to get reads"

[Dunnstral]

are you normally this "hey look at me trying so hard to look town"?

Are you talking about Dunn?

It's more of a " hey look at me i think i know what I'm doing "

I don't think he's seriously trying to do anything but appear to be doing something.



I suppose that's your point.

As opposed to you who brings in detailed analysis right

[Dunnstral]

You entered the game with a level of comfort that looked sort of like "hey look at me! scum would never post like this!" It's a strategy I use... to often as scum. That's why it struck me as odd.

Fair point, kind of.
"level of comfort"? Should I be spazzing out and telling everyone I'm town


Of course I'm comfortable, I'm not getting lynched today after all

Dunnstral, are you trying to derive any information at this point, or are you just having fun with this? either way, are you achieving your goal?

If I said I was deriving information would you even believe me? What if I said the game was moving too slow for me? Anyway I did get a townread off of it so I'd say I achieved whatever I was trying to do

[Dunnstral]

Bins

[Dunnstral]

That join date, that picture, I see you

[Dunnstral]

vote:xyzzy

guess why im voting this

Because he jumped on my bandwagon?

Because he's passively throwing doubt at me without really committing?

Probably something like that

[Dunnstral]

Man I'm a genius ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Dunnstral]

I don't really have a read on either of them yet, I'd say Zach not actually contributing is a pretty normal start for him

jaack's post 13 is pretty weird because he seems to be pushing on someone who doesn't rvs because they're going on vla, but they could just be confused, I don't think it's necessarily a scummy move yet just a bit weird

[Dunnstral]

Wait what, robert is actually getting scumread for

I'm here, just barely. I'd vote for Jake, cause I don't trust him, but I'm leaving town in a few hours.....

???

[Dunnstral]

Oh yea now we've got that reverse bandwagon where everyone says they townread me to blend in instead

Bins

Why a townread on Bins?

Just a feeling right now;

I've also got a townread on tyler right now for looking at xyzzy

I'm pretty sure Dunnstral is not being "serious" - you're not feeling/seeing that care-free sarcastic vibe?

I do now, yeah. It's become more clear. At the time my thought was that the posts were either jokes or baiting.

Dunn's become a townlean.

@Dunn that's white privilege at it's finest buddy how do you feel being an undertone of oppression?

???

meh, i don't know why but i expected you to have some kinda soul read on zach by now cuz my impression is you've played a lot together but that's fair
i wanna say town but it's completely gut

actually got some townvibes from jaack's 13 - i mean yea if robert is legit going vla then voting him for not voting isn't great - but i think the flippancy there feels town if that makes sense
bonus points because i thought robert's entrance was awkward too

it'd be cool to know why out of everyone he thought jake was the most untrustworthy before i go more into it this though

Nah definitely going to need more time on Zach here, also I think jaack was the awkward one there

my question in 34 was because Dunnstral had a few specific choices early on that showed a deliberate pattern—for one, there was the "this isn't an rvs vote" wording, which obviously means something, even if it's not possible yet to tell you it means. the "interesting" behavior I noted in 42 could go either way, depending on what else Dunnstral does today.

>vague on what's "interesting" so you can decide later or just ignore it
>got hung up over the "this isn't an rvs vote" line
>openly telling me what post you'll be watching me from

[Dunnstral]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

[Dunnstral]

Any time you want to start looking for mafia that would be nice, the earlier the better I say

[Dunnstral]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia

but don't have anything to back that up

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Jaack

You should be embarrassed to be such obvious mafia.

I'm here, just barely. I'd vote for Jake, cause I don't trust him, but I'm leaving town in a few hours.....

Not a fan of this post at all. Hesitant to vote on the first page? With literally the vaguest reason ever?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Robert2424

More vague could be just saying that he's voting for "reasons", so that isn't true.

Well maybe not LITERALLLY the most vague but completely useless either way. It doesn't seem to be rvs but it does nothing to help.

This feels a bit jumpy -

"vague"/weak is ok, it's early Day 1/RVS

. Choosing to vote/not vote with your opening post is

meh

(non-alignment indicative).
VOTE: Jaack

I don't have a problem with vague silliness in RVS/page one. I also don't have a problem with not voting page one.

I DO have a problem with making what appears to be a serious post, indicating suspicion, without voting, particularly at the very beginning of the game when there is very little risk. Being wishy-washy with votes coming out of RVS seems overly cautious. It's offering an opinion without justification or commitment. The feels a bit scummy to me.

I would like to hear why robert singled out Jake as someone not to trust.


In other news, Tyler and Keyser both seem pretty town. Initially I though Dunn looked like a vi, thought they have improved contentwise and also look towny.

I will agree that xyzzy's questions in 34 and 40 are bit awkward, although Dunn did seem a bit trollish at the time. Could be scum trying to trap a VI or could be town trying to deal with a loose cannon. Would like to here more about the purpose of those questions from xyzzy.

Retrospectively, don't really like ira's 29. He seems to be taking an issue with my phrasing as opposed to my assertion. Furthermore, he had voted for Robert right after I had.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: iraonavp

I have a question for you, actually -- have your thoughts on Robert changed?

Nope, still don't like that post. But I find that ira post to be just about as bad, and ira, by virtue of not being vla, is a little more useful place to put my vote right now.

What do you think of Robert?

OK - I can understand your reasoning about scum being over-cautious or self-conscience in early D1 play, but I am not seeing that fear/over-concern in Robert2424's opening post. I saw it as a RVS reply to Jake from State Farm's RVS vote.

"offering an opinion without justification or commitment"

? - I have never seen this on Page 1 of a game.

I like playing aggressively at the beginning of D1. At the very least, it gets discussion going, and sometimes you'll get lucky and catch scum.

And I still don't think that Robert's post was an RVS post. I mean you may be right, but it seems serious to me. Not that it really matters because when Robert comes back he can write it off as RVS either way.

All of this is Jaack pushing on robert for

basically no reason.

The fact that he just continues on about it was very telling to me. It actually makes me suspect that this is a

possible bus

between two mafia, though it's also possible that it's just Jaack as mafia pushing on a townie who can't fight back. There's also more:

OK - I can understand your reasoning about scum being over-cautious or self-conscience in early D1 play, but I am not seeing that fear/over-concern in Robert2424's opening post. I saw it as a RVS reply to Jake from State Farm's RVS vote.

"offering an opinion without justification or commitment"

? - I have never seen this on Page 1 of a game.

I like playing aggressively at the beginning of D1. At the very least, it gets discussion going, and sometimes you'll get lucky and catch scum.

You like to play aggressively? Remember when I said: "Oh yea now we've got that reverse bandwagon where everyone says they townread me to blend in instead"
Well i wasn't kidding about that, and you fit in with that bandwagon image perfectly, since you said you like to play aggressively but have actually been low-key buddying up to me all game:

VOTE: heuristically_alone

This isn't an rvs vote, this is an actual read and its' not changing for the rest of the day

I agree with this. Every post h_a has in this game so far has reeked of scum.

VOTE: heuristically_alone

In other news, Tyler and Keyser both seem pretty town. Initially I though Dunn looked like a vi, thought they have improved contentwise and also look towny.

I will agree that xyzzy's questions in 34 and 40 are bit awkward, although Dunn did seem a bit trollish at the time. Could be scum trying to trap a VI or could be town trying to deal with a loose cannon. Would like to here more about the purpose of those questions from xyzzy.




@zach - top scum read?

If it's Dunn then give me your top town read instead.

@Jaack It's really early. I'll speak on Dunn later, but I'll say if you start townreading him so easily then I am amused. Hahahahahahahah. I do like how Tyler is approaching things, though.

Could you explain your Tyler read a little more?

As for Dunn I don't exactly see anything that looks scum motivated. Trolly, sure but not particularly scummy.

I did find it interesting that multiple players (xyzzy, tool, bins) all focused their early efforts on dunn. I think there is scum in there looking for an easy mislynch.

Town read on dunn is weak, but I'm not seeing anything to change my mind on it.

The bolded part in particular felt out of place. With all of this I'm pretty confident in Jaack being mafia with robert looking scummy by association (even though he hasn't done anything)

[Dunnstral]

also keyser, did you not find it notable that im leaning town on jaack for about the same reason you're voting him?

actually got some townvibes from jaack's 13 - i mean yea if robert is legit going vla then voting him for not voting isn't great - but i think the flippancy there feels town if that makes sense

Yea, not feeling the "town vibes", but if you could explain the "flippancy" part a bit more, cheers - are you in effect saying

'the vote is too bad to be scum'?

I'm interested in these too because I can't relate to a townread on jaack here, though I definitely felt as if you (tyler) were town

Tyler is the player I'm getting the strongest town vibes from. Dunnstral, if your opinion of Keyser changes at any point, I'm definitely interested in knowing that. Zachstralkita has managed to talk a lot while saying very little, and I really don't like that.

All I got from Keyser is that he wouldn't react from slight provocation like what I did (though I was actually serious) and that nobody immediately jumped in to "save him" (granted I didn't wait long but...)

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn

I haven't exactly been pushing super hard on robert. I didn't like the one post he's made and voted him for it. I've explained my thoughts on it whenever someone has questioned it. I get that pretty much no one is agreeing with me (aside from kind of Tyler I guess) but that doesn't mean I still don't find the post in question somewhat scummy.

But I'm not even voting for Robert right now anyway.

As for me "buddying" you, you listed an RVS post and two posts where I called you town. And apparently I wasn't aggressive enough towards you earlier. I wasn't aggressive with you early game because I didn't find your posts serious. Furthermore, there was little reason to engage you when everyone else already was.

As for the bolded thing in post 66 (your bold, not mine) I added it because I was interested on getting Zach to comment on a player who wasn't you, as the majority of his content to that point was about you.

Fair points but I still think you were pushing on robert for way too long without a real reason - I thought his post was null and purely letting us know that he was going on vla but you somehow spinned it into something scummy

I voted for Robert because he was the largest wagon.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Same.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

LOL ok bud

Blatant scum. Are you kidding me?

VOTE: Dunnstral

??? I guess you didn't like me pushing on Jaack

[Dunnstral]

I ruined that quote thing, post 66 iraonavp, the rest is me talking

[Dunnstral]

I voted for Robert because he was the largest wagon.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Same.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

Mafia can't be this dumb, this guys town

[Dunnstral]

You're just sheeping onto bandwagons and you saying "same" and voting Keyser was comical

[Dunnstral]

^^ I'd be more inclined to believe that mafia would sit back early and only start pushing later on in general but of course it depends on the person

[Dunnstral]

vote:iraonavp

Hey bud that's a town you're voting for

What do you think about the things I've said recently? About jaack and iraonavp

[Dunnstral]

....more importantly what about jaack

[Dunnstral]

I guess I had trouble understanding it...

[Dunnstral]

I'm here, just barely. I'd vote for Jake, cause I don't trust him, but I'm leaving town in a few hours.....

there's more than one way to look at this post - if you're like me and didn't realize that state farm was talking about his name actually being robert then the tone is just all wrong and looks a lot like scum being cautious and trying to look town early

if you do realize it - then it's completely harmless

so hinging on that your point about him being stubborn with his read there could potentially be good

I'm not understanding what this part means

[Dunnstral]

@Mod By the way that vote list is missing tyler's vote on ira...

This isn't Dunn being town, it's him trying to look like he's being town.

Trying to look town...could you show an example? .

It's his aura.

Come on Zach you're better than this


We've still got 2 people besides Robert who haven't even posted

Bins disappeared like my town read on them

Here are my reads right now:

Town
Tyler the Creator
iraonavp

xyzzy
Keyser

bins
Jake from state farm
toolenduso
Zachstralkita

Jaack

Mafia

[Dunnstral]

and unless Zach gives non-gut reasons for thinking dunn is scum, I'm still inclined to think he's town.

Why would you say this? What if he was going to give non0gut reasons and now he doesn't?

[Dunnstral]

Why would you openly explain to him what to say to get "town read" or is this some kind of test or what? Let him think for himself no matter how muddled those thoughts may be

[Dunnstral]

@zach - top scum read? If it's Dunn then give me your top town read instead.

Remember when I said this looked out of place?


Hi Robert
Also that Jake vote... we're out of rvs buddy and he hasn't really done anything to indicate alignment

[Dunnstral]

Wow you've got cake too

[Dunnstral]

I've got a townread on him but I think you wanted xyzzyz's read? He's the one who said that in his summary post

I don't know what side I'm on in the whole Keyser/Tyler vs. xyzzyz.

I don't see a Keyser/Tyler vs xyzzyz?

[Dunnstral]

@jaack I'm not being cryptic

@Zach What's all this shade getting thrown my way without really saying anything of value


Tyler looks genuine to me in the way he posts - I can see where he's coming from in all of them and all of his votes/what he says has been reasonable and informative

[Dunnstral]

Jaack's reactions are pretty good I'm less sure about him now

[Dunnstral]

@jaack I'm not being cryptic

This is primarily what I'm talking about

And this is what I'm talking about: yet again you're trying to steer the conversation into talking about nothing? I'm not being cryptic about anything, I was just pointing what you said out to reiterate that it actually was something weird and now you're hounding me over it

@zach - top scum read? If it's Dunn then give me your top town read instead.

Remember when I said this looked out of place?

I don't know what you're seeing there that you don't like.

Why are you ignoring Zach? I thought you townread me, or did that go away once I pushed on you? Once again why are you ignoring Zach?

[Dunnstral]

Anyways like I said I'm less believing in jaack being mafia now so I'll be the one to end the wagon
UNVOTE: jaack

fixed tag

This is where I turn my attention elsewhere, problem is we still have 4 people who haven't really said enough (though they all either went vla or just replaced in or mia) - Robert, Jake, Floof, and heuristically_alone (who hasn't said anything all game and should probably be prodded/replaced or something)

[Dunnstral]

Mistakes were made

UNVOTE: jaack

[Dunnstral]

This game is basically contradicting my expectations of how town usually gets out of RVS. I feel like it usually goes like this:

RVS votes -> player A says something mildly scummy -> people wagon player A, and in the process player B says something weird -> people wagon player B

By this time in the game I feel like there's usually been a legit wagon. Since there hasn't been one yet in this game,

I feel like scum is either disjointed or timid.

I definitely agree that this day is moving in an abnormal fashion; I'm curious how you believe this would likely affect most town players, since you offered an opinion on how that might change scum behavior.

Knowing how they'd respond would likely depend on individual playstyles. Errybody's different. For some people it might mean trying harder to get the game going -- maybe by starting a wagon just to see what happens -- and for others it might mean that they get disinterested and don't participate as much.

In my case, it's led to me trying to start a wagon to see what happens.

What do you think of jaack?

Interesting theory, let's see if it works

VOTE: Bins

There's also too many people who aren't interacting with this person

[Dunnstral]

There's not much to say at this point, you lynch him, he flips scum, yay, you lynch him, he flips town, you lynch me.


More likely: You lynch me, I die, no one does anything about Dunnstral following this.

You seem to be 100% sure Dunn is scum. Okay. I'm not. In fact I'm leaning against it.

Tell me why I should vote for dunn. Using evidence.

You 8 pages from now as you're being lynched day 1: "If I was mafia do you really think I'd be attracting all this attention to myself!"

[Dunnstral]

Can we get Bins
I didn't like the way they seemed when they came back
Xyzzy also noticed that Bins seems to have "backed off" which fits with the "timid mafia" profile (which is what I was talking about in post 165)

Also I took a look at Zach and found this:

As for zach, I agree with your read and reasoning on Tyler. I don't think its ever to early to try and get reads -- some of my best reads are sometimes formed in the first three pages. Scum start playing from their first post, so why shouldn't townies? (That's a rhetorical question) I mean, you don't need to death tunnel someone from a page 2 gut read, but its important to take note of scummy or townie posting no matter where it takes place.

I didn't mean early to get reads, I meant early to be like, discussing them and shit. We could think a little more and see how things pan out, but you know that's just me. To be fair, posting about them does further discussion.

Blatant scum. Are you kidding me?

VOTE: Dunnstral

???

Additionally I noticed that Zach had no signs of a read on me in post 90, but after I made my posts 91 and 92 about jaack he pegged me as blatant scum and hasn't backed down or otherwise explained since then

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Jack

I am still on page 4 but I think Jack is scum.

Is this after seeing my post 91?

[Dunnstral]

I'm less inclined to believe that jaack is mafia and would rather get bin

[Dunnstral]

basically what I've been saying about the whole timid thing - I read them as real passive once they came back compared to the first times they posted

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: H_A

Actually thinking about it this needs to post more.

Not sure if that's deserving of a vote, he just got in here with this

Hey everyone. Feel free to call me Alone. This turned into a crazy weekend. Starting tomorrow I will be able to take this game super serious!

Though his followup is kind of iffy

VOTE: Zachstralkita
Your first post and post 122 have been the 2 worst posts of the entire game. And in general you got more talk than game.

First of all there wasn't anything special about his first post? Just an rvs vote and his entry

Second of all you pretty much read to me as going for the easy lynch/joining a bandwagon, especially since you haven't contributed any other reads of your own

[Dunnstral]

Keyser I'm

interested

in hearing what you think of jaack, bins, and iraonavp

[Dunnstral]

I don't think that is a good reason to think that Dunnstral is town-aligned. If I was using that metric to read Dunnstral I would invert it and call him scum-aligned for it, but I think the best thing to do is ignore it.

Huh? Why would I be scum-aligned and why would you be ignoring that?

I think you are focusing excessively on this non-alignment-indicative aspect of Dunnstral's play because you are scum-aligned and your attempts to read players are fake.

VOTE: Bins

Something about this seems off to me, I think it's the fact that you voted keyser when I said I had a feeling he was maf earlier and are now following me again

Can be coincidence but it seems weird since you also seem to be focused on me for some reason

[Dunnstral]

@Zach get out of here with that
Also maybe death tunneling me day 1 without reason maybe wasn't such a good idea after all, what say you

Yeah, definitely not joining the bins wagon now... [while I think dunn's argument has merit, I'm NOT joining a wagon with ira and tool on it.

Why not?

Pedit-Tyler is right, 210 is a bad post.

Why do you think it is a bad post?

Who has an unwarranted scum read on you? I know I don't so who does?

vote: Zach

what lead to this vote? obviously I'm fine with votes on Zachstralkita, but this is still a post that's empty other than having a vote in it, which isn't great given how little you've said so far.

Oh my apologies. I read his posts and think he's scum.

I mean you don't seem to have any reads at all, and the posts you have made are low on contribution

[Dunnstral]

Does knowing that I'm not on the wagon change the way you feel about the Bins wagon at all?

Ira's presence alone is a deal breaker for me. But you not being on it makes bins alignment messier from my pov. Still like the ira wagon a lot better, but the bins wagon doesn't really look like a mislynch waiting to happen anymore.

'twas coincidence, not cause.

(It wasn't that I was following other people, it was that I happened to think something was significant and I wasn't the only one to think that)

That's reasonable enough, but it doesn't change my read on you all that much.

@floof - What makes you thin Zach is town? What do you think of his "case" on dunn?

I see this now - what's your read on tool?

I mean you don't seem to have any reads at all, and the posts you have made are low on contribution

Well clearly that's not true if I've stated I have a scum read and I'm voting said scum read. If you're town stop saying things that just aren't true. If you are scum carry on

Yeah in 230 posts what you've done is vote someone and say he's your scum read. You haven't explained how, why, or when you got this scumread and in addition haven't done anything to help town (you joined a popular bandwagon)

[Dunnstral]

1. I did actually explain how I got my scum read. Everyone saw when I got it because they saw my vote, and I even explained why I voted him. I did this all in posts 169 & 201.

No, all you said was "I think he's scum" That's not explaining anything

2. When I voted Zach nobody else was and now only 2 people are so how is that "joining a popular bandwagon" exactly?

Don't play dumb. Everyone was thinking about him and he's the easy lynch

Like I said if you are town stop saying things that aren't true. you have now twice said things about me that are lies so now I'm inclined to believe you are probably not town

Not sure what scare tactics like this will accomplish if you're town

[Dunnstral]

Instead of going back and forth with me on this stupid shit, I'm surprised you didn't do the most logical thing and ask me to explain in more detail why I'm scum reading him.

I pretty much did...

[Dunnstral]

Zach you quoted post 164 way out of context, the only mistake I made was messing up the format of the unvote from my previous post. So you're just pushing on me without paying attention to what I'm doing..? Even better is I explain the thing you replied on in that very post so if you quoted that instead you wouldn't have anything to argue about. Also I already explained how he's scummy without association.

Nice "wall of text" but unfortunately it's so manipulated most of it's useless

Anyway you're either town who has absolutely no idea what they're talking about or mafia trying to manipulate things

at this point jaack and bins have basically switched places on the list.

Yep. So what's wrong with that?

vote:iraonavp

Hey bud that's a town you're voting for

It's not as all if you'd know. Unless you... know.

I'm less inclined to believe that jaack is mafia and would rather get bin

I'm less inclined to believe any of the townies' lives are significant to you in any event.

This is filler and there's nothing to respond to here

And you're not asking any vague questions directed at specific people (but not for a specific reason, only randomly) in this game because you don't want to get strung up.

You should have done that by default. We know you saw me as scum when you voted me, no one here believed you voted me because I'm your townread, am I? He didn't explain it like an astrophysicist, either.

I disagree. I'm under no obligation to explain something as soon as I vote.

So when do you want to explain it... not sure why you're being so difficult

Instead of going back and forth with me on this stupid shit, I'm surprised you didn't do the most logical thing and ask me to explain in more detail why I'm scum reading him.

I pretty much did...

Oh I missed that question. Can you link me to it so I can verify this isn't you just saying false things again?

You haven't explained how, why, or when you got this scumread

Now stop your babyrage and stop deflecting questions by calling me a liar

Oh and since we are talking. If you are town please Never do a list read again. Nobody should ever do them again. They rarely actually help town, they are a good way to fake content, and if enough people do them they give scum too much information.

Thanks.

I strongly disagree with this: I think read lists are a good way to show what you're thinking and to get other peoples opinions on things, it also shows what I'm thinking at the time so if I were mafia it would be harder to wiggle my reads around so to speak

[Dunnstral]

Vc

What's going on...? What's this Vc that keeps getting posted

[Dunnstral]

Anyway I think Zach is actually town and thinks I'm mafia because he thinks I'm acting different from another game

[Dunnstral]

This turned into a crazy weekend. Starting tomorrow I will be able to take this game super serious!

[Dunnstral]

Want to share your thoughts on the game so far?

[Dunnstral]

There's not much to say at this point, you lynch him, he flips scum, yay, you lynch him, he flips town, you lynch me.


More likely: You lynch me, I die, no one does anything about Dunnstral following this.

I vote the last option. If we are wrong and you are townie, than we can go after Dunn.

Huh? I don't even want to lynch Zach and if he's town that doesn't magically make me mafia

Just a dumb thing to say considering you said you thought I was town otherwise

[Dunnstral]

This might be more work but I think it would be easier to read if you included who made the post too (let's be honest not everyone is going to click on all that)

[Dunnstral]

This type of joking is something I've seen other mafia and myself do as scum.

[Dunnstral]

jaack:

-As I noted before, #13 makes sense in a very surface-level way. Robert's post violated a very common buzzword-y kind of logic about what town's motivation is. So it's the kind of post I would expect scum to hop on, and jaack did.
-He switches to ira in #66, and it does come after Keyser votes jaack for voting robert. That being said, I guess I would think scum would try harder to get something going on robert? Whereas jaack doesn't really try all that hard.
-I'm noticing a pattern of something that kind of approaches OMGUS territory without diving into it headfirst. His vote on ira came after ira's cheeky "criticism" of jaack. And then in #127 he starts being suspicious of me based on me voting jaack. The reasoning he attaches to it in #221 is a little reach-y, which he admits.

He didn't omgus me so not sure if that's just coincidence or there's something there

[Dunnstral]

You should really explain what you actually are doing, instead of making it clear what you aren't. You sound smart, you sound like a lawyer or something, but you're not explaining much. It's probably why people think you're scum.

Did you really just say this

[Dunnstral]

Ha's made some good points. That vote for him is probably not a good one.

Do his good points make him more likely town?

Also, what are your thoughts on Dunn -- as in, why not vote him after your back-and-forth with him where you said he was lying?

Well yes I think it makes him likely town which is why I said that vote is probably not a good one.

I'm not voting Dunn cause I like my vote where it's at now. I will say dunn's avoidance of me now proves he was just doing that for show and has no real interest in trying to find out my reasoning and that worries me.

Right now I could vote for 3 people and would feel pretty good that each would flip scum based on what I've read so far. Well technically 2 cause I'm already voting one of them.

My avoidance of you? You pretty much said you weren't going to answer me and that's ok just something to keep in mind

The fact that you keep trying to twist what I do into things that aren't there irks me, and I'm tempted to vote for you if you don't basically admit that you're just making stuff up to get on my nerves

Who is this third person you wouldn't mind voting?

[Dunnstral]

A number of people weren't on that list because they hadn't said much or anything at that point, you included since you went vla

I like to differ between null reads and "not enough info"

[Dunnstral]

robert's scum

Now it's your turn to answer "why"

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: heuristically_alone

For the record I still have a scum read on bins

Also H_A did actually say he thought I was town before he gave his reads list which is why I didn't question my absence

Also iffy on floof now

[Dunnstral]

We're bandwagoning heuristically_alone that's whats happening

[Dunnstral]

I'd be willing to vote H_A or Iran I am going to wait though before I vote again.

But why are you willing to vote H_A?

Also Jake what do you think about H_A?

[Dunnstral]

Am very drunk

We can tell

[Dunnstral]

Alright let me explain my vote: It's not like it was a super strong scum read on bins anyway, and now I've also got a scum read on H_A, someone said they needed more pressure and I agreed with that and so voted them

[Dunnstral]

Also bins isn't really giving much to work with right now so I'm planning to take a look at them again later while I currently intend to push on H_A

Hey since I'm on the topic of comprehension, I'd like everyone to

comprehend

that my general and social ineptness is what makes me the easy lynch and scum will capitalize on this.

kthx

Um???? You did that to yourself buddy you're still not CONTRIBUTING to town here

What do you think of:

Jake
Jaack
H_A
Bins
Floof
Keyser
toolenduso
xyzzy

[Dunnstral]

@Robert I already explained my reasoning for why I added you to my scum board, and if you were paying attention you would see that it has nothing to do with what you think of me, but of how you answered my question when I asked if you were mafia. Now, because of how hard you're pushing back, it just increases my suspicions of you.

I'd really like to see an explanation for this, did you ask him this somewhere? Did you get mixed up?

Also why do I feel like I'm being ignored in a way

[Dunnstral]

in general

[Dunnstral]

@Robert I already explained my reasoning for why I added you to my scum board, and if you were paying attention you would see that it has nothing to do with what you think of me, but of how you answered my question when I asked if you were mafia.

Also, didn't you ask Zach if he was mafia, and not Robert?

Largest scumslip of the entire game.

I'll save Dunnstral for the D2 noose.


UNVOTE: DUNNSTRAL


VOTE: H_A

Yea that's right, just casually move your vote away from me

[Dunnstral]

vote: Ha

That's l-1

What has H_A done to warrant your vote on him as opposed to me?

Uh... you what buddy

@Robert I already explained my reasoning for why I added you to my scum board, and if you were paying attention you would see that it has nothing to do with what you think of me, but of how you answered my question when I asked if you were mafia.

Also, didn't you ask Zach if he was mafia, and not Robert?

Largest scumslip of the entire game.

I'll save Dunnstral for the D2 noose.


UNVOTE: DUNNSTRAL


VOTE: H_A

Who's slipping now...?

[Dunnstral]

Actually that was SUPER weird of Zach to ask considering he JUST DID THE SAME THING and said it was the "largest scumslip of the entire game" (even taking his vote off me) to go on and ask jake why he's voting H_A?

It reads to me as if Zach were mafia and H_A were town. It's just weird in general.

[Dunnstral]

I think xyzzyz has reached a point where he's putting so much effort I'd be impressed if he was scum. I feel the ability to ask questions and pull so much from everyone's posting is quite town. I usually get weary of A LOT of effort. I need to look more in depth in his posts to get more feels

You think he's not mafia because he puts in a lot of effort? Do you think he wouldn't put in effort as mafia?

[Dunnstral]

You claiemd too early man
UNVOTE: heuristically_alone
Looks like we're all believing him

why is HA a better lynch than me?

Hey guys just want to say scum doesn't say this.

Yeah they would by the way, though I'm not saying Zach is scum

[Dunnstral]

Because he claimed Doctor? And it's not a good idea to lynch him day 1, come on you can figure that out on your own

[Dunnstral]

vote: Ha

That's l-1

What has H_A done to warrant your vote on him as opposed to me?

Uh... you what buddy

@Robert I already explained my reasoning for why I added you to my scum board, and if you were paying attention you would see that it has nothing to do with what you think of me, but of how you answered my question when I asked if you were mafia.

Also, didn't you ask Zach if he was mafia, and not Robert?

Largest scumslip of the entire game.

I'll save Dunnstral for the D2 noose.


UNVOTE: DUNNSTRAL


VOTE: H_A

Who's slipping now...?

Actually that was SUPER weird of Zach to ask considering he JUST DID THE SAME THING and said it was the "largest scumslip of the entire game" (even taking his vote off me) to go on and ask jake why he's voting H_A?

It reads to me as if Zach were mafia and H_A were town. It's just weird in general.

Let's not forget about this. This is important.

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE: H_A

Also nice to see him casually drop all aggression towards me What happened to me being mafia?

[Dunnstral]

I'm townreading Ira already so I intend to vote H_A, but I'll wait a while before placing my vote

[Dunnstral]

ha flips scum ill probably be putting floof under a microscope

What's the correlation here?
Might want to take a look at Floof either way though tbh

[Dunnstral]

@Bins you know it's L-2 still right

[Dunnstral]

I mean mafia also has day talk so that's actually a possibility right? Since town might get an advantage to compensate

[Dunnstral]

He was at L-2 and he wasn't even set as a lynch yet - I was thinking it was too early for a claim but then he got counter claimed.

I still think H_A could have waited to claim, regardless of if he was mafia or doctor

THAT'S ACTUALLY THE PRECISE REASON DUNN IS SCUM HE'S THE NEXT ON MY CRUSADE AFTER THE H_A FLIP....

The precise reason I'm scum is something someone else noticed that you skimmed by and then piggybacked on? OK Zach...

Flintstone vitamin

[Dunnstral]

By the way I think HA is actually at L-3 since Jake unvoted, just following the post count

[Dunnstral]

I bet Keyser Söze feels fortunate about not calling me scum-aligned now.

Huh?

[Dunnstral]

If that's all you had to say

VOTE: Heuristically_alone

L-2 I believe

[Dunnstral]

Just FYI, I'm catching up, I notice heuristically_alone is l-1. I'm not normally for Day 1 lynching even though I do suspect him. So I'm going to be rereading as he is so close as I read the last page and going beck to my last post to the last page again.

Pretty sure it's bad to not lynch day 1 since:
1. it's worse to have 4/6/8 people alive in mylo during the day than 3/5/7 alive in lylo
2. we lose out on a town-sided kill

[Dunnstral]

but hey, Zuffy decided to make me a weak townie so there it is. I thought my role was weird, but it makes more sense with those roles in the game. I'm in 80% sure both are town now and think the wagon should be dissolved. I could be wrong, and one or both are lying, but its unlikely.

Did you just claim some kind of role? What's a weak townie and why in the world are you claiming

You seem to think your role makes them both town; can you explain?

UNVOTE: heuristically_alone since there was an intent to hammer but I want to go over this first

[Dunnstral]

519 (Dunnstral) - I don't think daytalk would be enough to compensate for both claims being real.
531 (Zachstralkita) - I don't believe this at all.

What about day talk + "weak town" that Robert seems to have claimed? My GUESS is that he can't vote or something like that, would you consider that they could both be real claims then?

Definitely not ready to hammer yet

[Dunnstral]

I definitely believe ira is town regardless of what h_a is

[Dunnstral]

Though H_A's reaction here is still bad and I still actually want to vote them

[Dunnstral]

Bins still mafia btw, don't forget about that

[Dunnstral]

Your last substantial post was ~15 posts ago, since then you've made 15 "filler" posts

FIFTEEN

[Dunnstral]

Yeah but you don't have anything substantial to say... you're just commenting on things like you said

[Dunnstral]

I think at this point either they're both town or they're both scum.

I definitely still think it's possible for robert to be town and H_A to be mafia even pretty likely

I do understand why robert would out his role there - why are people starting to vote robert here? I personally believe he's town and that h_a is possible mafia regardless of what robert is

[Dunnstral]

Robert would be little more than a named townie with only the macho modifier. Since doc is slightly better than bg, h_a would be slightly more useful than ira. So the "best" lynch in this scenario would be robert, and then have ira protect h_a and h_a protect someone aside from ira.

Assuming at least one is scum, then once again Robert is the best lynch, as it's highly doubtful that a macho townie with no night role exists in a game with just a lone doc/bg. If one of ira/h_a is scum, Robert almost certainly is as well.

I guess there is the possibility they are all scum pulling a ridiculous gambit, but that is infinitesimally unlikely and would become obvious by d3.

VOTE: robert2424

Most logical place to start.

I'd much prefer if h_a protected ira and ira protected nobody; regardless of which role is "more useful" I definitely believe ira's claim while I"m not sure on h_a, and that arrangement would be much better for the town i think

All scum? That's not really a possibility since two of them claimed protective roles and then nobody else did (how would they know there wasn't going to be anyone else claiming a protective role, and why wouldn't there be one in the game?)

Robert's role makes sense if they're all town - can't be protected in a setup with 2 protective roles

[Dunnstral]

I mean you can bring up scenarios and percentages all day long, realistically I don't think Robert is mafia so I'm not thinking this is a good vote

[Dunnstral]

I mean you can bring up scenarios and percentages all day long, realistically I don't think Robert is mafia so I'm not thinking this is a good vote

Sorry if you've already addressed this, but I looked back at your posts and didn't see anything -- what do you make of the fact that Robert said he had never heard of the macho modifier, then later said he was a macho townie?

@Jaack: Idk...I mean, I get what you're saying. I think we disagree about the likelihood of a Robert/ira scum team. But I'm also a little afraid that if we don't lynch HA now, he gets off the hook.

Honestly I've never heard of any of those modifiers myself but it looked like he had a valid explanation? Nobody called him out on it

In my opinion, h_a is the most likely to be scum individually, and that's who I want to get. I Believe both robert and ira are town


Worst case scenario is that all 3 are town and we lynch both robert and h_a; I don't believe lynching robert is a good choice because I believe he'll flip town which will tell us nothing

I'm tempted to vote h_a and put them to L-1 but I'm worried that if all 3 are town we end up tunneling a lynch day 2 and get 2 town lynches

[Dunnstral]

Jaack why do you think Robert is probably scum?

[Dunnstral]

...But why Keyser? You never really gave any reasoning for that

[Dunnstral]

Tyler what do you think of Zach? I know you town read him but have you noticed he stopped all aggression on me for... quite a while now, and only acts that way when he had something to "go on" that you quoted ("?") and when I called him out on it

@Zach what do you think of H_A?

[Dunnstral]

You mean when he quoted that one part? I wouldn't say that's actually suspicious on it's own, more like the fact that he's kind of coasting now and actually following along with my opinion without any aggression at all

I don't really know for the second part? I definitely think it would be weird if he kept pushing that as he didn't really have a case to begin with, and I actually wouldn't expect him to... follow up anyway

[Dunnstral]

I'm kind of thinking h_a might be town just because I think robert and ira are both town, and his role would make sense

[Dunnstral]

though on the other hand h_a's posts since he claimed have all been scummy and that also makes me want to lynch him

[Dunnstral]

Tyler what do you think of Zach? I know you town read him but have you noticed he stopped all aggression on me for... quite a while now, and only acts that way when he had something to "go on" that you quoted ("?") and when I called him out on it

@Zach what do you think of H_A?

Scum. Am I not voting him?

You're not voting him

[Dunnstral]

I don't think we should lynch heuristically_alone.

Can you explain why you think that? Because I'm still leaning towards lynching him and I know Zach also wants to lynch him so we actually have more than enough people here to lynch him

[Dunnstral]

I actually have

intent to hammer

But I'm waiting to see if anyone else has anything to say (specifically Ira)

I plan on hammering in around 10 hours from this post

[Dunnstral]

LMAOO

[Dunnstral]

I mean I'm the one who said I was gonna hammer

and honestly while I understand you don't want h_a lynched you haven't actually given a reason

I don't think robert is mafia and I don't think you're mafia

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: heuristically_alone

[Dunnstral]

Also gonna go ahead and second that the vote on Dunn is a bad move

So are you going to explain how you went from hard tunneling me too "voting dunn is a bad move "

[Dunnstral]

And i definitely think there is better people to pressure, at least this early in the day phase.

How to pressure:
Vote without a reason
Never explain why while blindly defending another guy
Again, never actually pressuring with anything and just trying to get a bandwagon going
Have not even Zach follow your vote who you thought would be gauranteed

[Dunnstral]

Are you kidding me by saying h_a never acted scummy after claiming or are you just acting desnse to get a reaction on purpose?

Every single thing he said after claiming was scummy to the max

[Dunnstral]

Possible interesting stuff:

Spoiler:

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Because literally every post he has made has been completely useless. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

@Dunnstral has been by far the most entertaining player for me to follow in this game so far. As for liking him, makes me want him to be town. Best proof I have of you being town is your response to post 34 by xyzzy.

Dunnsrtal, can you offer any explanation for your behavior in this game so far?

Probably not

It was quite answered in a joking manner, but I think a mafia would have tried to give a more in depth explanation to his process in attempts to conceal himself.

My reading on Iraonavp

I voted for Robert because he was the largest wagon.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Same.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

Mafia can't be this dumb, this guys town

What?

I'm town-aligned, but how are my posts dumb?

I think that voting the largest wagon is a good way to conduct RVS.

I voted Keyser because I found him suspicious? I don't see what's comical about that.

To take it one step further, a good mafia would have taken that town reading "That's right, that was a dumb vote. Well at least you know I'm town!" (not that a mafia would write that out haha)
Because Iraonavp fought back a little defending his reasons is why I think he is town.

Because Iraonavp fought back a little defending his reasons is why I think he is town.

Why can't scum-iraonavp

'fight back a little defending his reasons'

?

Jack

First off, I found it so strange that so many people read Jack so early on as scum or town based on his vote in post 13 against Robert. I think anyone voting him as an easy vote at the beginning makes for possible scum players, (Keyser, tool, floof for example), not that I'm saying that one of them HAVE to be scum. As for Jack, I don't have enough information yet from him to really say for me what he is, but for now I'm leaning on town.

Floof

Also a suspect of mafia for voting Jack. There hasn't been any more substantial reading from Floof to get more of an opinion.

1) Why is it

"so strange"

for players to take a firm stance on a

serious

vote during early D1 play?
2)

"suspect of mafia"

/

"possible scum"

- if you're scum-reading players off Jaack's early wagon, this sounds like your town-read should be stronger than "leaning on town" / "don't have enough information yet".

Either (a) you have a strong town-read of Jaack, thus, naturally scum-reading the players on his wagon (confirmation bias) or (b) you 'know' he is town.

Is Jaack town?

I don't have any evidence that Jaack is town, and for me I feel like a mafia would be more likely to take advantage of Robert's weak vote at the beginning, because a mafia doesn't necessarily care too much who gets lynched, as long as he's not mafia. That's why I stated I don't necessarily have a strong reading.

vote:iraonavp

In post 330, heuristically_alone wrote:Now that I have called you out a little on how you're posting, your posting has developed a little more and you are contributing info to the game.Please highlight the posts where you think I am now "contributing info".

You more than anyone has been fighting me back on my original read on you. It for that reason that you appear more scummy than when I had initially assessed you. Anyhow, it's not my job to tell you your most contributing posts.

Whoever people want to vote out first: Zach, Robert, or Keyser, I am more than happy with getting anyone one of those 3 out.

HEY ANOTHER ONTARIO SCUMMER

Just want to uselessly point out that I don't think Floof and Bins are scum together, because mafia have day talk, so I think Bins would have noticed Floof being from Ontario in the scum forum first.

Finally, my reads so far

Spoiler: Jack

First off, I found it so strange that so many people read Jack so early on as scum or town based on his vote in post 13 against Robert. I think anyone voting him as an easy vote at the beginning makes for possible scum players, (Keyser, tool, floof for example), not that I'm saying that one of them HAVE to be scum. As for Jack, I don't have enough information yet from him to really say for me what he is, but for now I'm leaning on town.

Spoiler: Robert

Robert has been really inactive as well, and I don't have a read. If what bins said in 239 is true about mafia being quiet this game, it could be a reason why

Spoiler: Bins

239You've been relatively quiet too this game.
38 States that being super townie is your scum game. Now we know to expect that if Bins is mafia, she won't be super townie in this game. And maybe even if a super townie posts accidentally jumbles in, it gives more cause to her being scum.
177I feel like mafia use excuses like this more often than town. So what you haven't played for a year. Isn't playing mafia like riding a bike? Saying you haven't played for awhile so refamiliarizing yourself is similar to mafia tactic of acting more like a newbie or taking advantage to being a newbie so scummy posts can get away by having players think, oh he's just a newbie doesn't know what he's doing.
On a whole, I'm pushing Bins onto my scum side of the spectrum for now

Spoiler: xyzzy

I'm thinking town at this point. More of a gut feeling. There have been quite a few posts done that seems to be generally seeking more information from players and challenging players on their spots and it just feels pro town to me

Spoiler: tyler

vote:xyzzy

guess why im voting this

Still confused about what you meant by this. Were you assuming that we though it obvious why you voted thus?
First assumption is that Tyler is town. Also a gut choice. He does seem to think Jack is town and has some doubt on Bins like me, so with common thoughts, I'll put him as town for now.

Spoiler: Toolenduso

As you might have guess from my Jack reading, I have a little suspicion towards tool. Also like Keyser, posts clarifying posts but lacks giving some original content to help town.

Spoiler: Zach

My vote stays on Zach for now.
70 "Also, I'm certain you guys aren't aware of this, but I have a mental power thing like I can see into people's hearts with my mind. Like a scouter for your soul. I have the intuition of a reincarnated something. Sure, It's natural to be skeptical, but expect me to make a definite solid statement on the true identity of the scumteam at some point and be super right. Maybe today. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe 19 days from now. Maybe in 5 minutes." I find this a scummy post. Obviously trying to have some fun with the game, but also poking fun around the the time limit and not giving definite times. This type of joking is something I've seen other mafia and myself do as scum.
146Why are you so eager to get Dunn on the wagon? I think that Dunnstral's line of thinking could be considered a threat to the mafia and would want him destroyed

@Zach What's all this shade getting thrown my way without really saying anything of value

You're scum.

Refuses to give explanation of vote other than "He is scum". Voting people without evidence hurts town.

There's not much to say at this point, you lynch him, he flips scum, yay, you lynch him, he flips town, you lynch me.


More likely: You lynch me, I die, no one does anything about Dunnstral following this.

I vote the last option. If we are wrong and you are townie, than we can go after Dunn.

Spoiler: Floof

Also a suspect of mafia for voting Jack. There hasn't been any more substantial reading from Floof to get more of an opinion.

Spoiler: Jake

246Asks people to not use lists because it helps the mafia out too much and doesn’t help the town. If this is an earnest request, then it makes Jake town, whether or not people agree with him on his opinion of read lists

[Dunnstral]

I thought this was particularly interesting:

vote:iraonavp

HEY ANOTHER ONTARIO SCUMMER

Just want to uselessly point out that I don't think Floof and Bins are scum together, because mafia have day talk, so I think Bins would have noticed Floof being from Ontario in the scum forum first.

Finally, my reads so far

Spoiler: Bins

239You've been relatively quiet too this game.
38 States that being super townie is your scum game. Now we know to expect that if Bins is mafia, she won't be super townie in this game. And maybe even if a super townie posts accidentally jumbles in, it gives more cause to her being scum.
177I feel like mafia use excuses like this more often than town. So what you haven't played for a year. Isn't playing mafia like riding a bike? Saying you haven't played for awhile so refamiliarizing yourself is similar to mafia tactic of acting more like a newbie or taking advantage to being a newbie so scummy posts can get away by having players think, oh he's just a newbie doesn't know what he's doing.
On a whole, I'm pushing Bins onto my scum side of the spectrum for now

Spoiler: Floof

Also a suspect of mafia for voting Jack. There hasn't been any more substantial reading from Floof to get more of an opinion.

[Dunnstral]

I think that at least one of bins/floof is mafia - that interaction makes it more likely for me but they were also individually scummy (thinking more so bins here)

VOTE: Bins

[Dunnstral]

If Ira were mafia, it would actually be an interesting move to fake claim a town role just to get me out. Ira knew that it might be him if not me hence the fake claim to really ensure they get rid of the town PR and thus having to sacrifice himself to the town lynch on next day after having mislynched a PR.

Sounds to me like an honest mistake, calling it a weak town role. Since he does claim it doesn't say weak in the pm, could be just his interpretation of it.

I guess part of it is he basically fillered after claiming and didn't contribute at all or do anything to try to change peoples minds


By the way I sort of suspect keyser too from some of those interactions he had with h_a

[Dunnstral]

@tyler it looks like they're throwing shade at his partner and a townie together while saying they're not likely to be a team, I thought it was weird that they then went on to have a scum read on both of them (and compare it to like, their read on Zach)

I'll explain the keyser part too

[Dunnstral]

There is quite an objective difference to how mafia and town answer the question to be straight up asked if they are scum.

Town are statistically significantly more likely to just give a simple "no" answer. Scum usually give a more complicated answer or deflect with something. Zach kind of gave a combination of the two.

"statistically"? Felt like a fruitless question/unproductive pressure to me - I can't see how you can read alignment in a response to that question.

Good questions = informative answers

.

When Robert ends up being scum, you will see I'm right.

Lucky for you, now my top two suspects are Zach and Robert.

@Zach, are you mafia?

this is spam post at best? Really dude? At least I made it on your list though.

What an entrance to your final return to the game.

In post 330, heuristically_alone wrote:Now that I have called you out a little on how you're posting, your posting has developed a little more and you are contributing info to the game.Please highlight the posts where you think I am now "contributing info".

You more than anyone has been fighting me back on my original read on you. It for that reason that you appear more scummy than when I had initially assessed you. Anyhow, it's not my job to tell you your most contributing posts.

Whoever people want to vote out first:

Zach, Robert, or Keyser

, I am more than happy with getting anyone one of those 3 out.

Here's Keyser

Spoiler:

>Your message contains too many smilies. The maximum number of smilies allowed is 12.
Had to cut down on some

Starting tomorrow I will be able to take this game super serious!

"super serious"...



I want to see "super serious"...

VOTE: Zachstralkita
Your first post and post 122 have been the 2 worst posts of the

entire game

. And in general you got more talk than game.

"Of the entire game"?

Sounds like you've caught up - thoughts? I don't like the fact you've dropped in with a vote but not gone through/expressed your thoughts of the "entire game" first.

@Zach, are you mafia?

@iraonavp - do you class this as "asking questions without answers"?

Because literally every post he has made has been completely useless. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

Let me take this apart, piece-by-piece:

"every post he has made has been completely useless"

- please quote my "useless" posts.

"he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia"

- that is the game, you find something suspicious, you vote. I believe my vote was the first vote, it was not me jumping on a bandwagon. if you want me to break down the development of my read of Jaaack I will.

"Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own."

- this highlights your lack of perception. In those posts I was challenging people's positions and stating my own read/perspective on players. There was no

'me-sheeping-everyone-ba-ba-ba' posting.

"doing nothing to help the game"

- this is another unsupported generic scum-read reason.

"205 unvotes Jack, but that's that."

- that is information. Do you agree/oppose the reasons why I voted/unvoted Jaaack?

This feels like a manufactured sheep-dump off iraonavp's unsupported logic.

VOTE: heuristically_alone

Because Iraonavp fought back a little defending his reasons is why I think he is town.

Why can't scum-iraonavp

'fight back a little defending his reasons'

?

Jack

First off, I found it so strange that so many people read Jack so early on as scum or town based on his vote in post 13 against Robert. I think anyone voting him as an easy vote at the beginning makes for possible scum players, (Keyser, tool, floof for example), not that I'm saying that one of them HAVE to be scum. As for Jack, I don't have enough information yet from him to really say for me what he is, but for now I'm leaning on town.

Floof

Also a suspect of mafia for voting Jack. There hasn't been any more substantial reading from Floof to get more of an opinion.

1) Why is it

"so strange"

for players to take a firm stance on a

serious

vote during early D1 play?
2)

"suspect of mafia"

/

"possible scum"

- if you're scum-reading players off Jaack's early wagon, this sounds like your town-read should be stronger than "leaning on town" / "don't have enough information yet".

Either (a) you have a strong town-read of Jaack, thus, naturally scum-reading the players on his wagon (confirmation bias) or (b) you 'know' he is town.

Is Jaack town?

There is quite an objective difference to how mafia and town answer the question to be straight up asked if they are scum.

Town are statistically significantly more likely to just give a simple "no" answer. Scum usually give a more complicated answer or deflect with something. Zach kind of gave a combination of the two.

"statistically"? Felt like a fruitless question/unproductive pressure to me - I can't see how you can read alignment in a response to that question.

Good questions = informative answers

.

In fact

sheep dump makes for a great fertilizer in helping a garden to grow

. I must say your posts have matured in giving more content since I initially dropped your name based on the way you were posting.

Now that I have called you out a little on how you're posting, your posting has developed a little more and you are contributing info to the game.

Please highlight the posts where you think I am now "contributing info".

I am the doc this game.

A roleclaim at L-2 (without an intent to hammer)? - the timing of this roleclaim is bad/newbish (a more seasoned town/scum player should know when to roleclaim and when not to roleclaim.

...now plays the "newbie" card 9 minutes later

I a newbie in the sense of playing online in forum, and so far in every game I've participated in I have been one of the first to get lynched.

Why are we all unvoting H_A?

...because he just hard-claimed Town Doctor at L-2

I'm a bodyguard, so heuristically_alone is almost surely lying.

VOTE: heuristically_alone

iraonavp's Town Bodyguard roleclaim changes the dynamic of heuristically_alone's Town Doctor roleclaim. Two protective roles in a mini-normal set-up? The WIFOM is telling me:

I am seeing less scum-motivation in iraonavp's protective role counter-claim than in heuristically_alone's early roleclaim.

I.e scum-heuristically_alone trying to fish out Town-Doctor vs scum-iraonavp counter-claiming heuristically_alone to force his lynch. Both would be short-term gambits, but iraonavp was not in a position where he

had to

roleclaim - the focus/wagon was on heuristically_alone.

Moreover, would Zulfy put two protective roles which would encourage/force a counter-claim needlessly? Doubt it. I think we caught scum like this in another game [two (modified) cop roles claimed - one was scum, one was town - we reasoned that the mod wouldn't f**k us over with putting two cop roles in the set-up which could be counter-claimed.]

It feels like he gives

too much

attention to h_a - as if they were bussing h_a the whole time

[Dunnstral]

guess part of it is he basically fillered after claiming and didn't contribute at all or do anything to try to change peoples minds

Ok that I can actually agree with. I just didn't really read it as scummy but then again I've been pretty lost most of the game.

What do you mean you've been lost? By tunneling onto me? Yeah probably

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: zakk This is a good choice too

I'm pretty sure Jake, zach, and tyler are all town

[Dunnstral]

I'll call Zach zachstral from now on

[Dunnstral]

I mean when you look at it like that keyser also responded to ira quite a few times so maybe it was nothing (though ira did have the heat), it just looked like he was bussing hard and early to me

@Jake Tyler reminded me of that "why are we unvoting" thing that happened (also might as well lynch zakk instead of uselessly voting bins)

Also where did I lie ever? I think you're confused

[Dunnstral]

You were wrong every time day 1 too, I've basically accepted that every game I enter at least one person will randomly hard tunnel onto me without a real reason

short term memory loss = something that happened 3-4 days ago

When did I accuse you of doing things you weren't? Post 726? Here the thing: you were doing all of that. I was just pointing it out, I didn't say you were mafia for it and I don't think that

[Dunnstral]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Because literally every post he has made has been completely useless. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

@Dunnstral has been by far the most entertaining player for me to follow in this game so far. As for liking him, makes me want him to be town. Best proof I have of you being town is your response to post 34 by xyzzy.

i mean yea distancing is one thing but your first actual content in the game going out of your way to call a buddy's every post "useless" and build a semi-case on them and carry a dialogue with some one else about them for a bit seems unnecessary

the quick townread of dunn also makes me think not-buddies but dunn was a uni-townread at that point so if dunn was scum then he's a-ok to read him that way anyway so it's more meh

If I'm reading this correctly you think the interactions make keyser more likely to be town?

[Dunnstral]

Also gonna go ahead and second that the vote on Dunn is a bad move

So are you going to explain how you went from hard tunneling me to "voting dunn is a bad move "

[Dunnstral]

K analysis.

It occurred to me that we've actually gained a pretty valuable tool for finding the third scum if we can find the second scum.

The fact scum have daytalk changes the dynamic of HA's doc claim. There's no way scum wouldn't have discussed HA's claim prior to him claiming, so the other scum on the team would have had some kind of plan. IMO, there were only two objectives scum could've had there: assuming HA would die and voting him immediately, or trying to use HA's claim to dismantle his wagon.

So if we get a scumflip on a player who bussed HA after he claimed doc, it would be logical to assume that the other scum player also bussed HA. And if we get a scumflip on a player who seemed like they were waiting to see how other people reacted, or who actively tried to dismantle the HA wagon, we would do well to look for another player that acted similarly.

Specifically, if Robert is scum, this suggests that the scum were trying to save HA with his doc claim, because why would Robert step in and claim macho townie if not to save HA? If that were the case, and we would only know for sure if we got a scumflip on Robert, then we would do well to hunt for the last scum within the pool of people who tried to argue that HA was town after the doc claim.

On the Robert claim

, I'm less inclined to lynch him than I was toward the end of D1. Part of this has to do with rereading the last part of #596. I finally understand what he was saying. We were thinking about game balance in different ways, I think. I was thinking about how a mod would try to have roles

interact with each other

, while Robert was talking about weighing

negatives against positives within the town

. While I think we disagree about how bad a macho townie is for town, I get the basic logic at least.

On top of that, I also realized that it's weird to see fakeclaiming, gambiting scum not only coming up with the super weird fakeclaim of macho townie, but then having that explanation (from #596) for why they think a macho townie would be in the game. The structure of what he's writing doesn't really fit in with the kind of mindset that a scum partner would have to have in order to think that fakeclaiming under those circumstances was a good idea.

Spoiler: The HA wagon

-Final lynch: Keyser, Floof, tool, Jake, Tyler, Jaack, Dunn
-Keyser: One of the first players to suspect HA, starting in #222. Votes HA in #297 after HA makes a case on Keyser. At this point, for them to be partners it would pretty much have to be a designed bus. That's possible, but I lean town on it just because I find it less likely than the explanation that they just aren't partners and because there wasn't really a reason to bus at that point -- neither was in any real danger of being lynched. Knowing that HA is scum actually makes it look like he was trying to take advantage of some of the early suspicion on Keyser (HA's #268 actually was him trying to put logic behind a post where Dunnstral said he suspected Keyser but didn't have any reasoning for it). Once HA claims, Keyser immediately doubts it, though it is worth pointing out that he didn't comment until after ira had counterclaimed. So if Keyser were scum, scum were definitely following the "scum expected HA to die" tactic.
-Floof: First mention of HA is a vote for him in #187, saying HA needed to post more. Later he doesn't answer my question about why he wanted HA to post more than any other player in the game. Points for Floof making one of the earlier non-RVS votes of HA in the game (first?), but the reasoning is weird enough it does make me wonder if it could be bussing. In #367, Floof says the original vote was just to prod activity out of HA, but now he's scumreading HA (at this point floof isn't voting anybody, and he doesn't explain the scumread on HA). Floof explains in #373 that he felt like HA was following wagons, and Floof votes HA. The timing of this is interesting because it's before HA's doc claim and floof said he was either going to vote ira or HA. Ira was the leading wagon (4 votes), but the HA wagon had just gained steam with two votes on HA on the same page (putting the HA wagon at 3 votes). So as a scumpartner, Floof went for a bus even when there was a viable alternative wagon in ira. Water down the townpoints on that for the fact that the HA wagon was the trend at the time and that floof's vote still only put HA at L-3 (not all that dangerous).

Edit from later: Floof actually basically did the same thing that jaack did in choosing HA over ira, but he did it after jaack and dunnstral on the same page. Actually a little suspicious.

Floof's #486 and #631 are asking why people are moving off of HA (this is after HA's doc claim), so if floof is a partner to HA then he's in the "scum expected HA to die" camp.
-Jake: As far as I can tell, Jake's first real interaction with HA comes in #277 and it's a theory debate (up til this point Jake's been doing a lot of that because of disagreements over readslists and such). In #298 he says HA has made some good points and criticizes a vote on him. This strikes me as pretty brazen for scum, especially given that Jake had no real need to do it, and so I lean town on it. Another defense of HA in #337. Jake is also the first to really push HA's inconsistencies, which he does in #410. In fact that's what pushed me to look at HA further. Again, no need for scumpartnerJake to do this, especially since he was already townreading HA, and it led to HA's lynch. So I don't see Jake as a scumpartner. That being said, just to do due diligence, Jake's reaction to HA's claim was to unvote immediately, and then revote HA immediately once ira counterclaimed, then unvote and say that there have been games where both BGs and docs existed. So if Jake is alive in LyLo or something (which I don't expect him to be if he's town) then I think we could put him in the "scum were trying to save HA" camp.
-Tyler: First interaction with HA is #301 and it's nothing very telling. It's kind of interesting, actually, that Tyler basically ignores HA until HA's claim. Tyler actually did not post for the two days leading up to the claim, and then he posted about 20 posts after HA claimed doc. He doesn't really weigh in until after ira's counterclaim, and it's in kinda vague language ("doc and bodyguard both existing in a mini is kinda meh"). In #505 he sets up floof as a possible lynch of HA flips scum. He does some theorizing on the competing claims (#523), but doesn't really take a stance until #540 when he says he's fine with an HA lynch. He hops onto the Robert wagon in #628 after initially pushing against it, and clarifies later that he would still support an HA lynch. A lot of this just kinda raises my hackles as scum avoidance of the subject and trying subtly not to lynch HA. The fact that he disappeared for two days and then came back right as HA claimed would lend support to the "wait-and-see" scumbuddy approach. If Tyler is scum, he's in the "scum were trying to save HA" camp.
-Jaack: His very first post is a vote on HA in #5, and while this is very probably RVS, it does follow a Dunn vote. Maybe not super telling on its own but good to note I think. He puts HA as second-most-likely scum in a readslist in #357 and most of his reasons make sense. He actually votes HA over ira in the next post, and he explains it later by saying that his vote on ira wasn't doing anything. I lean non-partner on this. Very interesting reaction to HA's doc claim in #480, he is indeed the first person to point out that doc is a standard scumclaim and at the same time concedes that it'd be better to leave it be just in case HA is actually the doc. He later gives intent to hammer HA after ira's counterclaim, and then once Robert claims he pushes a kind of pragmatist's approach that favors lynching Robert before HA. I lean town on jaack based on the earlier interactions with HA (probably the biggest piece being him voting HA over ira), but if he is scum then he was in the "scum were trying to save HA" camp.
-Dunnt: Don't really consider Dunn's vote of HA in #4 to be anything. In #129 he leaves HA off a readslist (one of 3 people he leaves off the list). He notes that HA isn't saying much in #162, but votes for Bins instead. Dunn defends HA against floof in #193. Dunn's response to HA in #285 is the kind of catty I don't really expect from scum partners (he calls HA dumb). He votes HA in #365, right after jaack but before floof. He unvotes HA immediately after the doc claim in #483, with the kicker that it "Looks like we're all believing him" -- very similar to jaack's reaction. He's back to HA after ira's counterclaim, and then in #519 suggests that maybe the daytalk is a way of compensating for town having two protective roles. He revotes HA in #553, unvotes HA after Robert's claim and says in #630 that all three could be town. He actually kinda wobbles back and forth on this a bit, saying he still thinks HA is scummy and ira is towny but maybe Robert is telling the truth and they're all town. He says he keeps thinking HA might be town, but then declares intent to hammer and does hammer HA (after zach declares intent to hammer, but earlier than dunn). Up until the HA claim, Dunn looked pretty much not like a partner. But the weirdness around the doc claim opens up the door again imo. Needless to say, if Dunn is a partner then he's in the "scum were trying to save HA" camp.

Spoiler: Robert's claim

-Robert's claim was in #563. After that, the people who voted him were: Jaack (#616) and Tyler (#628).
-So it wasn't really much of a wagon. But more people weighed in on it than voted.
-Jaack is the first player to say Robert is scum in #590.
-Bins poses the question in #591 of whether Robert, ira and HA could all be town. In #598, once Robert seemed to say the PM said "weak" but was describing a macho role, Bins reverses and says Robert might be scum.
-In retrospect, Tyler's #609 doesn't make sense. He said he can't remember the last time he saw scum misread their role PM...which, if Robert is scum, he's fakeclaiming. So it's not like he would be reading a role PM incorrectly...I'm not really sure what to make of this, honestly. Does it suggest scumTyler knowing that Robert is town and therefore not thinking all the way through the scenario of Robert being scum? Is it townTyler just half-baking a thought? I guess it might be weird to see scumTyler working this hard to lynch his partner, HA, instead of townRobert.

Edit from later: Tyler explained this; he was thinking of a fakeclaim.

-Wow, then Bins agrees with it in #612.
-#622 is intentional WIFOM from HA for sure.
-Tyler naked votes Robert in #628.
-Dunn casts doubt on Robert being scum in #629, floof does the same in #631, Zach says he doesn't think Robert is scum in #644.
-Xyzzy and ira come along townreading Robert in #652 and #653.
-Not really understanding Bins' #681. She speculates that Robert could be scum or town and then says "Robert's move, much like irao's, is crazy town."

Edit from later: Bins explained this too.

Conclusions:

-More suspicious of Tyler now.
-More suspicious of floof now.
-Jake is probably town.
-Keyser is probably town.
-Bins is maybe town.

Up next:

-Looking through HA's ISO for interactions.
-Examining the cognitive dissonance I have when considering the possibility of a Tyler-floof/zakk-HA scum team.

Why do I feel like I always get left out of these

Oh wait there I am in the corner. The line (after zach declares intent to hammer, but earlier than dunn) is confusing to me a bit, you're meaning zach declares intent to hammer after me, but at an earlier time? Also he was messing around and clearly didn't hammer (not because he didn't want to be hammer or anything, to be fair he didn't hammer because there was still discussion and I declared I was going to hammer)

Aside from that:

Do you think tyler would hard bus his mafia partner (floof) as his other partner (h_a) is getting lynched? That seems pretty risky
I actually agree that jaack is probably town and I overlooked him as being town from t he interactions

"bins is maybe town" not sure where you drew that conclusion from... I do see you talking about bins under the robert section but nothing to indicate they're town

What do you think of xyzzy?

Also this floof/zakk lynch is starting to look better and better

[Dunnstral]

Also gonna go ahead and second that the vote on Dunn is a bad move

So are you going to explain how you went from hard tunneling me to "voting dunn is a bad move "

I would think during your 8 year term at MIT you learned the word " sarcasm "

Got anything you want to contribute or

[Dunnstral]

"bins is maybe town" not sure where you drew that conclusion from... I do see you talking about bins under the robert section but nothing to indicate they're town

Nevermind see you talking about them recently in your iso

[Dunnstral]

I also liked tool's last post after reading his iso - I saw his questioning earlier and it all comes together nicely for me and makes sense

By the way it's safe to ignore Zachstral from this point forward

[Dunnstral]

no

[Dunnstral]

Well, I was half right, but still in the dark.

Why are you voting Dunn Jake? I'm honestly surprised there isn't a vote on me yet.

Who's mafia?

[Dunnstral]

Your general consensus seem to be that most everyone can flip either way and half the town is "spamming"

Honestly I'm not a big fan of that post in general

@Dun, if I hade to guess? maybe 2 mafia left, it could be either, Zach, Jaack, bins, or Tyler.

Huh, this made me realize that everyone else is just assuming there are 3 mafia

I mean, so did I but still

Also not sure at all why you've singled out those four people, I'm not seeing the reasoning or how that happened at all

[Dunnstral]

By the way it's safe to ignore Zachstral from this point forward

[Dunnstral]

So who's mafia then Zachstral? Why are you ok with voting xyzzy? What about BINS?

I read my role one time, right before I went on the men's retreat at my church. Thought the modifier was silly, didn't look at it again till after I made my claim and the macho was mentioned. I don't remember reading my role on that day with that word. I put weak in my own words because I can't be protected.

By the way this is super sketchy just saying

[Dunnstral]

You're delusional and the chance of you lynching me with that stream of discredit is nonexistent, like I said not the first time someone hardcore tunnels me all game long without a reason

[Dunnstral]

Well. If you want tunneling. I have one guy tunneling.

???

[Dunnstral]

I can guarantee, 100%, that Robert is town. That is all I have to say on the matter.

[Dunnstral]

Also, I've solved this game. Let's vote for zakk please. This is almost guaranteed to be mafia.

[Dunnstral]

zzz

That's a nice story you've got there we can discuss it day 3 when I'm even on the table

You should come sheep zakk, you agree that they're likely mafia yes?

And I assure you, I'm not trying to take credit from anything

[Dunnstral]

I'm vanilla town by the way

[Dunnstral]

...What do you think of floof/zakk? Realistically I'm not getting lynched, just think about the current lynch that people are gravitating towards, do you think it's good? ok? or bad?

[Dunnstral]

Yet somehow you 100% know Robert is town?

Yes

Yeah why don't you explain why you tried to cast doubt on Robert and now all of a sudden out of the blue he's 100% town.

No

Not just for me, please do it for everyone alive

No

Thank you

You're very welcome

[Dunnstral]

That's nice but what do you think of zakk?

[Dunnstral]

I just want your opinion.

[Dunnstral]

You're mistaken. You think I was trying to cast doubt on Robert. In truth, maybe I was. He seemed suspicious at the time. However, I've changed my mind. I did criticize you but I had good reasoning to at the time, from my point of view

Can I ask,

besides me

, who do you think the mafia could be?

[Dunnstral]

@Robert can you sheep me and vote Zakk

[Dunnstral]

Hahaha, you think I'm scum because of that? Man c'mon I even claimed

[Dunnstral]

I think we have enough people to lynch zakk; tool, robert, and jaack have all expressed at least some interest in lynching zakk

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

Hopefully you can run as well as your imagination does

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

I don't want to get xyzzy either way

[Dunnstral]

Read your sig cuz it looks like you're having LOADS of fun

I am. Would have more fun if people would help me lynch scum but nobody seems to want to

Might be a bit awkward to backtrack day 3

[Dunnstral]

Chill man you won't get lynched super fast anyways

[Dunnstral]

You have like 3 out of 6 votes

[Dunnstral]

You sure seem concerned over these votes, they have explanations behind them when you read the thread

[Dunnstral]

So you're argueing without even knowing your role? So your argument means nothing either way and you're ignorable. Also really slimy tactic to pull too

[Dunnstral]

Any chance of me thinking you're town is gone now

[Dunnstral]

Zakk just said he didn't get his role and zachstral is literally blindly defending him regardless

[Dunnstral]

I never ever said anything about gambiting

[Dunnstral]

Ok so like I said nothing Zakk has said mattered and he's a

watch it

- still want to lynch him, obviously.

[Dunnstral]

Watch what...

[Dunnstral]

Come on I didn't say anything worth censoring

[Dunnstral]

We need zachstral in here to tell us zakk is town while zakk does nothing

[Dunnstral]

I mean i understand zakk went somewhere so that's fine

I think his slot is likely mafia and want to lynch him still, Zachstral is giving me a headache here

[Dunnstral]

It's funny cause I was townreading zakk's reaction.

Yeah so was I

[Dunnstral]

Also that's a pretty ballsy and stupid move. He directly asked the mod to confirm it and you'd imply he's gambiting, Dunn?

And yet another example of why Dunn is scum

Please quote where I implied zakk was gambiting or lying about not recieving a role.

[Dunnstral]

Slimy tactic as in he tried to get votes off of him without a role pm (they shouldn't have been posting)

And I town read his reaction but then turns out he didn't know his role

Saying I implied he was gambiting is actually desperate, just admit you're wrong and have no reasoning to tunnel me

[Dunnstral]

Bins your gut matches mine

[Dunnstral]

WHOA that's the closest I've seen you come to using a naughty swear word in my LIFE, something's gotta be off here

He's rattled. His plan is unraveling in front of him and he doesn't know how to recover. He realizes hey if I curse maybe people will think I'm town cause no way scum would do that after Jake got a warning for just typing The letter F

If I were my plan would be going strong right now

[Dunnstral]

Maybe I'll revert back to my scum reads in the first few pages because I'm too paranoid.

Can you remind me what those were again so I can dismiss it and tell you to vote with me

[Dunnstral]

Yes zakk shouldn't have posted before getting his role pm but he did. That's more the mod's fault. Using that against zakk in this game is slimy as hell and no townie should do that. Attacking a player who just got his role pm for not doing anything and not giving that player time to catch up is also slimy as hell.

Yeah sounds pretty slimy, who did that?

[Dunnstral]

And if you are somehow town please avoid me from future games. I don't want to play with a player who plays slimy.

Yo chill

[Dunnstral]

If you're town you don't deserve any chill. The most disgusting display ever from a townie but I doubt you are

I get that a lot thanks

Unfortunately for you everyone else thinks I'm town and your entire case on me is in your head so I suspect you'll be rather disappointed when you realize that yes, I'm just town you tunneled on.

@Bins why do you think I claimed VT? Don't answer that, just think about it

[Dunnstral]

he didnt curse and that wasn't what you were warned for i dont believe, i've been saying fuck all game

Slimy tactic as in he tried to get votes off of him without a role pm (they shouldn't have been posting)

And I town read his reaction but then turns out he didn't know his role

Saying I implied he was gambiting is actually desperate, just admit you're wrong and have no reasoning to tunnel me

as I said before, if he didnt post he would have been voted regardless i imagine. using " HE SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN POSTING " as a reason really does nothing.

He should have just said "I haven't recieved my role pm yet" instead of going on a long tirade about how people should unvote him, but that's just like my opinion. The fact of the matter is there's

still no reason to unvote him

even if we ignore the incident that just happened, based on floof

Looking forward to seeing more from bins and keyser

[Dunnstral]

I wouldn't claim VT without a reason though

[Dunnstral]

heuristically_alone ISO

, Part 2:

heuristically_alone WIFOM posting:

vote:iraonavp

HEY ANOTHER ONTARIO SCUMMER

Just want to uselessly point out that I don't think Floof and Bins are scum together, because mafia have day talk, so I think Bins would have noticed Floof being from Ontario in the scum forum first.

The premise of this town-town interaction theory is far-fetched [

does heuristically_alone go out on a limb here, and town read two slots for no great reason, other than a cheap buddy tactic?

] WIFOM would say one or both the Floof-Bins slots are town-aligned.

Someone else sees it! I pointed this out earlier and it seems bins agreed and I think someone else agreed with this too, definitely something here

[Dunnstral]

"I think anyone voting him as an easy vote at the beginning makes for possible scum players, (Keyser, tool, floof for example)"

heuristically_alone scum-reads myself, toolenduso and Floof as possible scum for voting Jaack early. [Check if heuristically_alone follows up this suspicion on toolenduso/Floof].

I'd tunnel in on floof here

[Dunnstral]

But I didn't

[Dunnstral]

My claim isn't scummy OR dumb excuse you

[Dunnstral]

I have little to no motivation to lynch xyzzy today. (By the way, everyone seems to scum read them but not one person has provided any sort of reasoning behind it)

[Dunnstral]

Not really all I saw was you talking about it a bit day 1

Unless that's what you meant, in that case I still have little to no motivation to lynch xyzzy

[Dunnstral]

I don't really think they're town it's just that I don't really see anything showing they're scum where floof right now it seems like everyone's detailed analysis is outlining why he's mafia

I've actually been overlooking jaack too in general doesn't feel like he's posted much recently and not sure how I feel about him either way

[Dunnstral]

I do think that zakk is a solid lynch, but I am a bit concerned with how quickly this push on him developed....

And I don't think that scum would bus in this situation either. Assuming that there are 3 scum (which I think is a safe assumption as there was only 1 nk), if scum-zakk were lynched today, scum would have to navigate 3 mislynches to get to 3 player lylo.

Since it doesn't look like anyone is going to support me with Robert, I'd rather lynch xyzzy.

Why do you want to get xyzzy

[Dunnstral]

why is dunn's claim scummy as opposed to just dumb?

If you knew what I knew, you'd know precisely why it isn't dumb.

1)He's not dumb anyway.

My claim isn't scummy OR dumb excuse you

Excuse yourself. I don't see why you're worried anyway, the lynch Dunn train isn't getting a whole lot of choo-choos

I've been trying to decipher this, pretty sure he doesn't really mean anything by it and it's safe to ignore him still

[Dunnstral]

MODERATE SUSPICION yeah ok

LOL chill out those are just from the h_a iso

Man you flipping out over every moderate suspicion directed towards you is a class act

[Dunnstral]

trust

he's pretty town

Who zach? yeah I'm actually thinking that too
That's why we can just.... ignore him....

[Dunnstral]

heuristically_alone mixes up Robert2424 and Zachstralkita's slots (post 422, post 434).

I think this actually makes it more likely that they're both town

I already gave you my 100% guarantee that Robert is town so I'm going to go ahead and reaffirm that Zach is town too

[Dunnstral]

What do you think of keyser so far zachstral? let me give you some hints to get you started:

1. Not everyone that votes/suspects you is mafia
2.

[Dunnstral]

Ominous

[Dunnstral]

This game is weird in that everyone likes to post big walls of analysis but nobody seems to be reading each others stuff

[Dunnstral]

(expired on 2016-05-10 17:42:23)
Just dropping this as a reminder to myself.

Oh he's not gonna post until he's about to get prodded

[Dunnstral]

yeah in a way