In post 1334, Zoronos wrote:So, for the sake of clarity Dierfire, your scum reads are Eager, Gamma, and Penguin? You are further of the opinion that Gamma and Penguin's set of disagreements around the competing trains was theater / scum distancing and that they could be scum together?
Am I understanding this correctly?
Yes, that's correct.
I'm not married to the idea that all three are Mafia together, but I have independent reasons to read each as Mafia, associative reasons to read PenguinPower and Gamma Emerald as partners, and no associative reasons to doubt either as partners for eagerSnake (in fact, perhaps some associative reasons to read Gamma Emerald as a likely partner for eagerSnake given the hops on and off the eagerSnake wagon).
So, in short, your theory is that Gamma is Eager's scum partner, and who jumped on the lynch train when he thought it was going to complete for the town cred, then jumped off again when he thought he might be able to save his scum buddy?
Yes, and I'll add that Gamma Emerald jumped on twice and off twice (comes back from V/LA, sees the claim from Shadow_step, votes in 867; removes vote from eagerSnake in 927 and to Shadow_step in 933 after Lil Uzi Vert adds another vote to that wagon; brings eagerSnake to L-1 in 1176; comes off again in 1258).
In post 1334, Zoronos wrote:So, for the sake of clarity Dierfire, your scum reads are Eager, Gamma, and Penguin? You are further of the opinion that Gamma and Penguin's set of disagreements around the competing trains was theater / scum distancing and that they could be scum together?
Am I understanding this correctly?
Yes, that's correct.
I'm not married to the idea that all three are Mafia together, but I have independent reasons to read each as Mafia, associative reasons to read PenguinPower and Gamma Emerald as partners, and no associative reasons to doubt either as partners for eagerSnake (in fact, perhaps some associative reasons to read Gamma Emerald as a likely partner for eagerSnake given the hops on and off the eagerSnake wagon).
So, in short, your theory is that Gamma is Eager's scum partner, and who jumped on the lynch train when he thought it was going to complete for the town cred, then jumped off again when he thought he might be able to save his scum buddy?
Yes, and I'll add that Gamma Emerald jumped on twice and off twice (comes back from V/LA, sees the claim from Shadow_step, votes in 867; removes vote from eagerSnake in 927 and to Shadow_step in 933 after Lil Uzi Vert adds another vote to that wagon; brings eagerSnake to L-1 in 1176; comes off again in 1258).
Keep in mind - I've been scumreading Gamma for a lot of this game.
Him jumping in and out of wagons is definitely interesting. If the above explanation is true (that he's bussing for town cred or bailing to see if he can save his scum buddy) his behavior is
awfully
transparent for scum.
The jumping in and out of wagons suggests cautious/unsure townie to me.
Because he was, until the CC, mechanically town. I would have put him as #1, but I couldn't bring myself to do it.
Anyway, if your case is reduced to disliking the order in which I arranged my town, null, and scum reads in my pretty, pretty rainbow, then that's your prerogative.
Who's your second highest read? Who will you pursue when/if eager flips red? What about if he flips green? Why'd you switch from SS to me? Do you believe he's town, now? What game set up do you think could possibly support two town ascetics? What do you think about Gamma's mind change? How about eager? Are you really sure he's town? What re you willing to commit to print at this point?
Anyone can feel free to answer any of these questions, by the way.
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:26 pm
by nn30
Moon logic here. This is pure speculation. Please don't take this as super serious - I'm just throwing it out there.
Shadow's CC, to most people's reading, was premeditated.
What if Boring's "scum read list" intentionally had Shadow as her top town read so that she could use it as justification for jumping on Snake?
Scum have day chat - if SS's claim was premeditated, he could have warned his scum buddies to set up bread crumbs they could point back to.
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:28 pm
by nn30
It hasn't been reduced to anything.
You put out reads.
Your later play contradicted those reads.
I'm not interested in changing the subject.
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:30 pm
by Lil Uzi Vert
To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:30 pm
by Lil Uzi Vert
In post 1385, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:To me it still reads like Shadow made it look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.
EBWOP
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:31 pm
by PenguinPower
Oooh...that's an interesting variation on current events. Unlikely, but interesting nonetheless.
p-edit
Even more interesting. Thanks, LUV.
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:32 pm
by PenguinPower
In post 1385, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.
Just going to quote this for posterity.
Still reads like premeditated.
Still reads.
Still.
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:33 pm
by nn30
In post 1385, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.
Uhh... Please clarify what exactly you mean by these two sentences. I'm not getting it.
In post 1385, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.
Uhh... Please clarify what exactly you mean by these two sentences. I'm not getting it.
I'm saying that Shadow made it look like he intended to counterclaim Snake and that when he did counterclaim, it conveniently was at time where there were some serious discussion and debate going on about the wagons on Gamma and Penguin.
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:38 pm
by podoboq
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:39 pm
by Dierfire
@MariaR
In post 1356, MariaR wrote:When eager flips town I am power tunneling Dierfire into the ground
In post 1385, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.
Uhh... Please clarify what exactly you mean by these two sentences. I'm not getting it.
I'm saying that Shadow made it look like he intended to counterclaim Snake and that when he did counterclaim, it conveniently was at time where there were some serious discussion and debate going on about the wagons on Gamma and Penguin.
Wasn't it stated by some people that the claim was suspected as a distraction?
PP is getting townier again.
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:48 pm
by nn30
Yeah, it might have been me who speculated that first. Never felt 100% about it (since the PP and Gamma wagons were both at 3 votes at the time).
LUV likes it as an explanation for the SS claim obviously.
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:48 pm
by Dierfire
@Lil Uzi Vert
In post 1390, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I'm saying that Shadow made it look like he intended to counterclaim Snake and that when he did counterclaim, it conveniently was at time where there were some serious discussion and debate going on about the wagons on Gamma and Penguin.
I think that it's clear that Shadow_step was setting up to counter the claim from early in the game. I'm not certain why you find that suspicious. Why would Shadow_step, as Mafia, feel the need to start setting up to dispute the claim so early? Usually it is not difficult to dispose of an Ascetic role (by NK or by lynch).
I also don't think that Shadow_step needed to claim in order to create a distraction. The move that you describe would be one with low reward and high risk.
In post 1390, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I'm saying that Shadow made it look like he intended to counterclaim Snake and that when he did counterclaim, it conveniently was at time where there were some serious discussion and debate going on about the wagons on Gamma and Penguin.
I think that it's clear that Shadow_step was setting up to counter the claim from early in the game. I'm not certain why you find that suspicious. Why would Shadow_step, as Mafia, feel the need to start setting up to dispute the claim so early? Usually it is not difficult to dispose of an Ascetic role (by NK or by lynch).
I also don't think that Shadow_step needed to claim in order to create a distraction. The move that you describe would be one with low reward and high risk.
You were scumreading both me and Penguin.
Me and Penguin were the leading wagons at the time.
Coincidence...?
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:54 pm
by Dierfire
I'm not certain what you're asking.
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:56 pm
by Gamma Emerald
People were saying the claim could be a distraction from the main wagons.
Right now I'm thinking Dier and Penguin are both Town.
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:58 pm
by Dierfire
If PenguinPower were Town, and you were Town, and Shadow_step were Mafia, then Shadow_step would have very little need to distract from the competing wagons.
Or are you saying that you're reading Shadow_step as Town