LicketyQuickety's Mini Normal - 1847

[Joshz]

VOTE: 1 shot wonder

=P

[drealmerz7]

no-lynch haters love to hate on no-lynch!

all the RVS votes of stupidity and meaninglessness, and ppl just want to KILLLLL the person who has a peaceable approach, even in RVS!!! I generally tend to look for scum in the ppl who are trying to make an issue out of an RVS no-lynch vote -

now, saying that, no-lynch is GENERALLY a bad idea for town on D1 and scum know that and don't draw themselves into attention by doing that, so there is just a ton of WIFOM there anyway and I think the simple "attention draw" about it has me lean town about it rather than scum

I love to throw out a no-lynch vote for reactions on occasion. Or sometimes I do want it because of reasons (no good scum reads and being a cop, for example.)

[nn30]

So, there are corner cases where no lynch is a good idea.

If we're in a MyLo and we have the option of no-lynching without losing the game, we should absolutely no lynch. Scum are forced to kill that night and we get to remove a potential mislynch option from the pool.

This is not that corner case.

[ThinkBig]

no-lynch haters love to hate on no-lynch!

all the RVS votes of stupidity and meaninglessness, and ppl just want to KILLLLL the person who has a peaceable approach, even in RVS!!! I generally tend to look for scum in the ppl who are trying to make an issue out of an RVS no-lynch vote -

The problem with this is that we are not in RVS. RVS was long over. Random voting is used to break the ice and shouldn't be taken seriously.

So, there are corner cases where no lynch is a good idea.

If we're in a MyLo and we have the option of no-lynching without losing the game, we should absolutely no lynch. Scum are forced to kill that night and we get to remove a potential mislynch option from the pool.

This is not that corner case.

I agree with this. The only time that no-lynching should be used is in MyLo cases where there are no strong town reads. Though as you mentioned, we are not there.

[PenguinPower]

The problem with this is that we are not in RVS. RVS was long over. Random voting is used to break the ice and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Can you show me where it ended?

[ThinkBig]

The problem with this is that we are not in RVS. RVS was long over. Random voting is used to break the ice and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Can you show me where it ended?

I generally consider the RVS to be over after the mod posts the first official vote count.

[PenguinPower]

Why?

[ThinkBig]

Why?

That's generally when the vast majority of players have posted at least once and we have at least an idea on where to go from there. That's why I consider the first vote count to be the end of RVS.

[PenguinPower]

I think that's an incorrect assumption to make. The first VC is usually on page 2/3, and there hasn't been a lot of interaction between people at that point. I don't think you can set a hard stop on RVS...it's something that devolves naturally.

Not getting the feel goods about you right now.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm not sure where you got that from TB.

Anyway, 1-Shot's opening post and his second post look like RVS silliness to me, wouldn't read too much into it. His third and fourth post however seems like an attempt to prevent discussion and that worries me a bit.

[Dark Horse]

now, saying that, no-lynch is GENERALLY a bad idea for town on D1 and scum know that and don't draw themselves into attention by doing that, so there is just a ton of WIFOM there anyway and I think the simple "attention draw" about it has me lean town about it rather than scum)

Don't get the wording here, are you saying that suggesting No lynch is something that seems more town than scum

Even then I don't know why you're talking about a D1 no lynch in depth, the only time I've seen a good town no lynch day 1 is in abnormal setups

Anyway, 1-Shot's opening post and his second post look like RVS silliness to me, wouldn't read too much into it. His third and fourth post however seems like an attempt to prevent discussion and that worries me a bit.

Agreed. "Letting it flow" is a good way to get town to hold off progressing pass the RVS stage

[nn30]

The problem with this is that we are not in RVS. RVS was long over. Random voting is used to break the ice and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Can you show me where it ended?

I generally consider the RVS to be over after the mod posts the first official vote count.

I mean, that's

your

version.

My version is once something has happened worth talking about.

Like people agreeing or disagreeing on whether or not we're in RVS still.

Based on that definition, we're now out. So by saying it, you made it so.

God? Is that you?

[nn30]

I'm not sure where you got that from TB.

Anyway, 1-Shot's opening post and his second post look like RVS silliness to me, wouldn't read too much into it. His third and fourth post however seems like an attempt to prevent discussion and that worries me a bit.

If it's anything at all, it's a baby tick in the direction of scum.

His 4th post is actually adding to the discussion - he's saying don't read too much into RVS silliness.

Seems fine to me.

[nn30]

Agreed. "Letting it flow" is a good way to get town to hold off progressing pass the RVS stage

Disagree.

[nn30]

no-lynch haters love to hate on no-lynch!

all the RVS votes of stupidity and meaninglessness, and ppl just want to KILLLLL the person who has a peaceable approach, even in RVS!!! I generally tend to look for scum in the ppl who are trying to make an issue out of an RVS no-lynch vote -

now, saying that, no-lynch is GENERALLY a bad idea for town on D1 and scum know that and don't draw themselves into attention by doing that, so there is just a ton of WIFOM there anyway and I think the simple "attention draw" about it has me lean town about it rather than scum

I love to throw out a no-lynch vote for reactions on occasion. Or sometimes I do want it because of reasons (no good scum reads and being a cop, for example.)

I'm scum reading you for your '!' and '!!!' in the above post.

Seems like you're trying to pretend to have a reaction here.

*shrug*

Anecdotally, I won my first scum game by suggesting a no-lynch D1 and intentionally playing it off like I was newb town. I knew exactly what I was doing and it worked like a charm so it is a viable strategy if you know how to pull it off.

Town has good reason to denounce the no-lynch suggestion: the only motivations for it are scum or bad town play.

[Dark Horse]

Agreed. "Letting it flow" is a good way to get town to hold off progressing pass the RVS stage

Disagree.

Why

[nn30]

Agreed. "Letting it flow" is a good way to get town to hold off progressing pass the RVS stage

Disagree.

Why

Spoiler tag due to length. Sorry for the wall lol

Spoiler:

So, 1-shot vanilla town said 'let it flow' in regards to getting out of RVS. He made it very clear that his 'no-lynch' vote was just an RVS joke. He could obviously be lying about that since he only made it jokey after he got town's reactions to it, but I don't want to put someone in my scum category for something so flimsy.

Then, TB came back and said 'well yeah man we were obviously out of RVS when you voted no-lynch. Therefore I find you scummy.'

1-shot makes it clear that his vote was an RVS vote.
TB claims, after the fact, that we were out of RVS.

Without trying to get at the truth of whether or not we were out of RVS, it's obvious that the two of them are coming to different conclusions because they are relying on different assumptions. It's like one person said 'I think that coat is red' and another says 'nah, I think it's orange, I hate orange' and then the first guy says 'I'm going to buy you that red coat, red is your favorite color.'

Buying the red coat was based off of an assumption that the second guy would also think it looked red. Obviously this is folly.

In terms of our game, scum reading somebody for making an RVS joke by way of retroactively saying 'nah man, we were out of RVS, you're scum' is also folly.

I disagree because if we have two options 'let it flow' and 'declare when we're out of RVS' let it flow is way better - it allows the town to collectively decide when we're out of RVS rather than giving power to the guy who declares we're out of RVS (TB).






FTR - I don't at all think we were out of RVS when the no-lynch was declared. TB's opinion that we were out of RVS based on his benchmark (first vote count) is just patently false IMO. I put that down here because I don't think I need to be right about this for the above argument to hold water.

[Pine]

VOTE: No lynch

Only scum want to murder.
I don't want to murder because I'm town.

Vote no lynch for a peaceful tomorrow, today!

Bad logic. No.

RVS is now over for me. Serious vote -

Vote 1SVT

No lynching robs Town of its primary weapon, and rejects the agency of Town. NLing outside MYLO and specific unusual mechanics is an anti-Town action. And I could make an argument against NL even in MYLO.

[Joshz]

VOTE: penguin

[nn30]

VOTE: No lynch

Only scum want to murder.
I don't want to murder because I'm town.

Vote no lynch for a peaceful tomorrow, today!

Bad logic. No.

RVS is now over for me. Serious vote -

Vote 1SVT

No lynching robs Town of its primary weapon, and rejects the agency of Town. NLing outside MYLO and specific unusual mechanics is an anti-Town action. And I could make an argument against NL even in MYLO.

Read my post 66 please.

[Joshz]

See? Still not out of RVS. Stop bitching about him voting no lynch, that's not scum indicative it's newbie indicative. Not newbie townie, just newbie. That post you quoted, Pine, is a clear joke, and trying to build a serious argument around it is awful. And you can't make an argument against no lynch in Mylo because sometimes it's a good idea and sometimes it's not, that's a game specific situation, there's no blanket answer.

So real vote: VOTE: pine

[Pine]

So, there are corner cases where no lynch is a good idea.

If we're in a MyLo and we have the option of no-lynching without losing the game, we should absolutely no lynch. Scum are forced to kill that night and we get to remove a potential mislynch option from the pool.

This is not that corner case.

I missed this before. Since you picked it out, I'll address it. I've come around to an anti-MYLO-NL position because too often I've used it as scum to choose who to bring to endgame. Kill the guy who suspects you, or leave alive the ones who suspect one another, and you can easily pull out a win. In 3-1 MYLO, you essentially need to come to a unanimous agreement, obviating the possibility of a quick hammer.

I believe No Lynch is only useful when specific unusual mechanics are in play, and bastard games aren't really worth discussing outside bastard games. NL proposal gets you lynched, in my book, as either a scum claim or policy.

PEdit: Fuck off, I'll read whatever I like into whatever else I like. Vote bullying like you're doing is also a scumtell. Chainsawing this early? Amateur.

[Pine]

The whole point of RVS is to catch hidden motives couched in the jokes. 'Random' votes aren't really random, they're influenced by underlying psychology. I'm picking 1SVT's 'joke' out as potentially indicative of a scum mindset. Disagree if you want, but I'm going to shake this tree until I'm satisfied that nothing's falling out.

[nn30]

@Pine - I find your vote on 1-shot to be town motivated.

I'm fairly certain you failed to realize that post 43 was a joke from 1-shot.

I believe that scum would be more careful with their vote than this. Therefore, town read.

p-edit: @Joshz hah! We had the opposite reaction to his vote. Let's talk.

I think that scum wouldn't be so bold as to vote on such flimsy ass reasoning - especially so early in the day when a wagon based on this is unlikely to secure a mis-lynch.

pp-edit: @Pine - I agree with your logic on the no lynch in a Mylo setting. Whether or not your or my logic wins out is predicated on if we believe scum to take the approach you take here. I'll have to add this to my scum play-book...
I'd like to add that a no-lynch in MYLO is also bad if there's a conf!town player around that scum can pick off.

ppp-edit: @Pine - I will continue to disagree. Feel free to shake however. Let me know if a cat falls out - mine went missing a while back.

[nn30]

VOTE: 1 shot wonder

=P

See? Still not out of RVS. Stop bitching about him voting no lynch, that's not scum indicative it's newbie indicative. Not newbie townie, just newbie. That post you quoted, Pine, is a clear joke, and trying to build a serious argument around it is awful. And you can't make an argument against no lynch in Mylo because sometimes it's a good idea and sometimes it's not, that's a game specific situation, there's no blanket answer.

So real vote: VOTE: pine

VOTE: Joshz