Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[Gamma Emerald]

That was the main point: if one claimed full cop (which HN did), there was risk of CC from the other (which THANKFULLY FOR TOWN didn't happen).

[Naomi-Tan]

I feel my entrance really helped town.. I think If I hadn't put in so much effort my slot may of been miss lynched and it may of GG'd

[BlackVoid]

Sweet win. I do think AJ has a point in that 2 cops and a JK are all pretty much confirmable roles that are not going to get lynched. Add to that, in most situations, there will at least be a couple of results or a missing nk and you have a heavily townsided game. I know I'd be frustrated with the balance if I were scum here. Personally my experience here so far has been that mods on mafiascum way underestimate how powerful town roles can be and often make setups far too townsided. But that's just me. I honestly think even a 10:3 all-vanilla game with normal nightkills is winnable if the town is competent enough.

I do think town deserved to win this one though given how many of us accurately nailed the entire scumteam. Io was brilliant D1 and me, Kairal and IAI had it figured out D3. I'm glad Dierfire looked so townie towards the end of D3. @Naomi, you are right in that Cloudkicker did a lot of damage to your slot but you did well to repair it.

Modding-wise, there is a lot of room for improvement. I can give specific feedback if Gamma is interested. Thanks for backing up the game, Mhsmith0.

[Gamma Emerald]

If it's anything other than the gaps in modding attention, shoot.
Speaking of modding, about FOSes. On my HS FOSes are widely used. I decided to create a situation that encouraged FOSes and see the result. The result was a high use early, but no use by the end.

[Naomi-Tan]

OH YEAH speaking of modding. Does anyone remember when I did this;

Spoiler: Vanilla Townie Role PM
Hello (Player Name)!
You are a Vanilla Townie.

You have your voice and your vote. Use them wisely!
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
The game is here

Please confirm with your role name.

Well I said I'll point it out post game so here it is;

You are a

Vanilla Townie.

You have your voice and your vote. Use them wisely!
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
The game is here http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69502

Please confirm with your role name.
[/quote

My role pm had a Link to the game where the example post had it hyper linked. So I worked this out at the time I quoted that but decided it wasn't in the spirit of the game to use that to confirm my slot to all other VT's who could confirm it viva paraphrasing XD.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah forgot about that
tbh That type of clear only works on two people (if BlackVoid responded (which wouldn't have happened since I was very direct about not wanting that level of clear) it would be hilarious).

[Naomi-Tan]

It was helerious XD If I had joined into the start It would of activated a reroll xD

[Naomi-Tan]

Oh also this quote;

Subject: Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia

Just quoting page 1 so I could find it (as I keep going back to check the player list. its hard to keep track with people talking)

Thank you for clarifying that: I jumped when I saw you quoting the sample role PM.

Makes me wanna troll more Mods as VT by quoting their example post XD

[BlackVoid]

We also FOS people at my homesite. But it's just something players do, not something that the mod keeps track of. Honestly, it added more confusion than clarity so I'm glad you dropped that.

On modding, gaps in modding attention

is

actually a pretty big think to improve on. When you have a backup mod, you should be adding him to a mod PT and giving him all the info about the game so that he can actually process flips and night actions. I even made a post asking you to give him that info. Frequency of VCs should have been much higher. Eventually we winded up making our own VCs. OP should be up to date. For most of the game, it was about two days behind. I didn't even know what day we were in when I replaced into the game and thought it was D2 since SAJ's and Grey's flip weren't there. Adding the day of the game to the title would have been very helpful. Links to the beginning and end of each day in the OP would have been fantastic. Immediately adding people to a dead/spectator PT would be cool. I only got the link the following night after I got killed along with massive. Just make sure, next time you mod a game, you have enough free time to stay on top of the game and keep everything updated. For an example of a well-modded game, look at even mhsmith's or podoboq's games.

As far as the Cloudkicker situation is concerned, I think you made a rather subjective decision by force-replacing him. If you really thought he was playing against wincon, you should have modkilled him. Force-replacing really left a lot of people trying to outguess the mod. Eventually I don't think it mattered much since an investigation was wasted on my slot anyways so it didn't make a difference.

[Aj The Epic]

There's also a catch-22 of how mafia can deal with it that's overlooked. It's MOD ADDED INFORMATION that changes town perceptions in any sort of way not influenced by the players in the game that bothered me. That in and of itself is

so tilting

to deal with as scum. Then you have to somehow navigate the shit that comes from it.

Also using the fact that we got a cop claim D1 isn't really justification for it. As I explained in the dead PT, I would've loved to have a roleblocker and target out grey night 1. Then what? Newman lives, he has no claims, he either LIES or undergoes some serious suspicion again. Instead, our role does nothing (we know he's telling the truth) and we're just forced to kill him instead of allowing OUR GAIN (the wagon) to benefit us in any meaningful way.

That's really what kinda started to add up by d3. I saw that we had almost no way to win EVEN WITH a perfect game to that point. Flubber dying lost us the game eventually, regardless. MDS clear, another forced kill on massive when he can cop again, and the suspicion that stems that Naomi/CK/S_S share MDS' alignment is really hard to deal with. As I stated in that dead thread, my gambit was to try and win it in a very heavy wifom LYLO. I knew it was 1 for 1 and I don't think culted/Flubber were able to read what I was doing (hey, we ALSO don't get day talk. Which seriously would've been lovely to help flubber out much earlier). Kairal was right to call the attacks, but not right to stick to the analysis. In fact, I'm not sure you really gained much from it.

Talk to Titus in the future if you want to continue with VCA. I'm pretty sure they look for WHEN people vote than anything else. With scum flips, I know VCA starts to look at WHO voted for scum in meaningful situations, who was easily swayed when it got close to meaningful or if they can find a group vote involving that scum. I'm sure I could've survived probably into D6/7 had I not engaged you there but the issue was that the pieces would've eventually fallen into place to incriminate me in an extended game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Daytalk would have been useful with the awkward nights when mh had to pick up my slack

[Kairal]

I see your point about how your excellent Day 1 didn't benefit you as much as it could have. It is interesting that you felt that way D3 since I felt like we had already lost. It was only once I saw your flip that I felt we had a chance. Even as it was you came very close to a win. Dier pretty much said he'd have voted me if I were an option. It's only because massive unvoted that he didn't. With me dead you'd have only need one more mislynch and Dier or Naomi were both very viable.

As far as the VCA goes? Well it was a bit of gamble that you'd make sure your votes were split. As it turns out however that was true- the three of you were never on the same side in any of the five votes I used. I don't think anyone else in town really agreed with the premise so I agree that it was pretty useless at persuading people. However I was totally lost before doing it and was certain I'd found you guys afterwards. It was very useful for me at least.

Frankly though I'm not very happy with any of the rest of my play this game. I got far too emotional far too often. The game is too stressful for me. I nearly replaced out several times. I'm not sure I'll be playing any more games- at the very least I intend to take a significant break.

[Kairal]

Oh btw by 'spec thread' I meant dead thread Gamma.

[Aj The Epic]

Frankly though I'm not very happy with any of the rest of my play this game. I got far too emotional far too often. The game is too stressful for me. I nearly replaced out several times. I'm not sure I'll be playing any more games- at the very least I intend to take a significant break.

I suggest not. It gets very difficult to play this game after breaks, takes a long time to catch up. I've done it twice and still am not to the level I was before leaving. Was this game stressful? Yeah, but that's partly because I forced that with you. It was my intention to force that 1v1 into a lynch and I actually got pretty stressed over it too (I hate being caught as scum more than anything in this game. it feels downright awful). However I wasn't going to take the loss laying down, so I do apologize for that.

If nothing else, I suggest playing R2R games instead of full on taking a break. They're easier games and more a teaching environment (I used to do them because I could look for general theory trends when people weren't really covering up with WIFOM. It's great for working out stylistic kinks).

[-Grey-]

Nice job town. Sorry about the derp.

[Kairal]

Frankly though I'm not very happy with any of the rest of my play this game. I got far too emotional far too often. The game is too stressful for me. I nearly replaced out several times. I'm not sure I'll be playing any more games- at the very least I intend to take a significant break.

I suggest not. It gets very difficult to play this game after breaks, takes a long time to catch up. I've done it twice and still am not to the level I was before leaving. Was this game stressful? Yeah, but that's partly because I forced that with you. It was my intention to force that 1v1 into a lynch and I actually got pretty stressed over it too (I hate being caught as scum more than anything in this game. it feels downright awful). However I wasn't going to take the loss laying down, so I do apologize for that.

If nothing else, I suggest playing R2R games instead of full on taking a break. They're easier games and more a teaching environment (I used to do them because I could look for general theory trends when people weren't really covering up with WIFOM. It's great for working out stylistic kinks).

Ah nothing to do with you, or any other player really. I just find the game super stressful. Sorry I stressed you out! I imagine that would really suck yeah. I haven't really played scum yet thankfully.

I've only played like 4 games though so it's not like I have much to lose :p

[Kairal]

That wasn't as clear as I would have liked. By super stressful I mean 'waking up at 3am and realizing I won't be able to sleep until I check the thread' kind of stressful. And I've felt that way with all the games I've played

[Kairal]

Anyway despite that I did have a lot of fun. Don't want to make it seem like I was miserable the whole time or anything. Thanks for the game peeps.

[Dierfire]

Ah, I should have just pulled the trigger in 1979.
---
Anyway, I'm glad that we won but not particularly pleased with how I did personally. I could talk about it a lot more, but I want to highlight two specific things. First, my failure to see what was going on with massive and MiniDeathStar in 1086 was pretty egregious. Second, my choice between Kairal and Aj The Epic (1771) should have been much easier given that Aj The Epic was voting with culted and Flubbernugget against Kairal.
---
I'm leaving the site for a bit. This year has been busy from the start and shows no sign of changing. I don't think that I'll be able to put in the sort of time that these games deserve. I apologize to everyone in this game for my lackluster participation. Prior to this, I'd never before needed to have my slot put up for replacement for any reason.
---

@Mod

Thanks for running the game!

[Naomi-Tan]

I think the mod made the right call in replacing but I feel that he could of provided less information if he had gone with 'CK is being replaced for abuse to another player' As it would denied both sides alignment information. I think killing the slot would of provided an unfair advantage.

[massive]

Kairal, I definitely think you should continue playing.

[Gamma Emerald]

btw I need to contact Vi about the JK role PM on the wiki page
also, spec/dead thread is open

[Kairal]

Thanks massive. I appreciate that.

[HellloooNewman]

Yay!

[BlackVoid]

Can we see the scum topic?