Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[I Am Innocent]

No, where would scum dier put his teammates? Split them up in the largest groups...one a null and one a town. Where is culted and AJ? Right where I'd expect them...

Yeah, we'll just wait for massive. I'm down for whichever of Culted/AJ he prefers more so we can secure a lynch there.

@IAI - what do you make of Dierfire's latest posts? If he's scum with Culted and AJ, why is he so particular about which partner he's bussing?

Well he still voted flubber (not AJ) and has kept his options open if it doesn't swing back to culted (won't say who he'd vote for between AJ and kairal).

I feel like his whole game has been full of too many town reads. Even now he has 7 players including himself who he doesn't want to lynch (leaving 2 players to lynch, 1 of which is prob town if dier is scum)

I'm with you tho, I'll be shocked if AJ and culted aren't scum, if we can get to 5 with a mislynch still in hand, I think it'll be a win for town.

At this point I'm good with either culted or AJ. Culted dier will vote for, Naomi seems ready to vote AJ, massive makes the final call?

Continuation of the other post.

Long story short I have extremely strong town reads on kairal and Naomi from actions of scum day 3.

In the off chance of who we vote between dier and flubber flips town, I don't want the two of you turning on each other in MyLo in case I am the next NK.

Really the main point I wanted to get off before this day ended. Would have preferred to wait to say it until after dier posted, but I feared a hammer might have happened first.

[Kairal]

I see where you're coming from. I'm 100% sure that Flubber is our last member, but I assure you I'll carefully consider Dier if A) it's not Flubber B) I make it to tomorrow.

[I Am Innocent]

Change carefully to strongly and I'd feel a lot better. I am so convinced the last scum is in {Dier, Flubber, lean towards Dier} that I'm personally willing to take full responsibility of a town loss if I'm wrong.

Well about 4 hours until Dier is prodded. I think it's okay to wait a little longer.

[Kairal]

Well as I said I'm sure it's Flubber. If it isn't then I'm gonna be reading through the whole game from scratch before making a decision. Off the top of my head I think Dier fits better into a scum team with Aj and culted then Naomi does.

However I have no idea how I'd feel after a re-read. You've seen me bring up Io and BV's positions so you know I do consider dead people's thoughts. I can't commit to anything stronger than that before doing a reread though and since I think it's Flubber I can't really be bothered reading the whole thread for a situation that I think is unlikely.

I tend to get impatient but yeah there's no need to rush.

[Dierfire]

Sorry, I didn't realize that we were back on.

I think that seeing culted flip Mafia Goon is inconsistent with Naomi-Tan being the last Mafia player (that thing with the specific role names in 1191 was the only major doubt that I had, and while I acknowledge the quotes presented by BlackVoid in 1766, I think that there are few things that indicate Mafia alignment for Naomi-Tan and more that indicate Town alignment).

I think that the interactions D3 strongly reinforce my read on Kairal as Town and moderately reinforce my read on I Am Innocent as Town.

Flubbernugget is far and away my highest suspicion. I'm aware that Kairal is asking for an immediate hammer--I'll go ahead and state

intent to hammer as soon as I find time for one last check

, which will occur before Sunday ends.

[I Am Innocent]

Okay, I am okay with the day ending. I'll respect Dier's wish for one last check by Sunday, so I won't hammer.

Naomi/Kairal, if flubber flips town and I die at night, please know that Dier is the last scum. Please don't cross vote. Force Dier to cast the first vote and that will confirm the person he isn't voting for as town when they next post and don't hammer.

If flubber is the last scum, then all the better.

[Naomi-Tan]

Well its been nearly 2 days I don't really have much to add right now. I think flubs is red so.. voting flubs is what I'm doing. Sorry for not really saying much so far today. but I didn't really feel that I needed to comment.

[I Am Innocent]

Still waiting to hear diers last thoughts.

[Kairal]

Yes the four of us seem to be agreed that Flubber is today's lynch. Not much point trying to persuade Flubber of that so not much to say in general.

Just waiting on whatever it is Dier was doing. This post is basically just a prod dodge.

[I Am Innocent]

Okay it is definitely one of the two people avoiding this thread. No point to drag this painful waiting on nothingness any further.

vote flubber

If the game doesn't end with this flubber lynch, that means flubber is town and dier is the last scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

Flubbernugget has been lynched.
He was...

Spoiler:

Mafia Goon!

A win condition is reached!

The town of Io, HellloooNewman, Secret Agent Jin, -Grey-, BlackVoid, massive, Dierfire, I Am Innocent, Naomi-Tan, and Kairal wins!

Will release PTs later

[mhsmith0]

Now let's celebrate with some terrible music!

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, from now on I'm likely using a designated hydra/alt to mod

[Kairal]

Awesome. I said this a few times but now that it's confirmed it really is amazing that Io got the entire scum team right Day 1.

[Aj The Epic]

There's a lot of things I'd like to say existed set-up wise here that really prevented us from winning, which is rather unfortunate. Anyways, gg.

[Gamma Emerald]

BY THE WAY........
I'd like to address what happened day 1 with Cloudkicker and MiniDeathStar. I feel I managed to handle it fairly well. As stated, I took issue with CK admitting he was playing suboptimally. I had made that call due to a tip I got from MDS. If I hadn't been notified it likely would have slipped my attention. Apologies to anyone who felt it ruined the game, but tbh from looking at play it had little effect.

[Aj The Epic]

I don't believe he SHOULD'VE been replaced. There's nothing saying he can't vote that way.

[Gamma Emerald]

His voting was acceptable. I took issue with his MINDSET.
btw I'd like to note CK has CONTINUALLY brought up this incident in other games.

[Kairal]

I feel you dealt with the CK thing as well as it could be. Ultimately it's just a game and there's no point in humoring unpleasant people.

[Aj The Epic]

What exactly, though, was the scum team supposed to do given the composition? Like RC+2 goons vs double cop JK is insanely weak.

[Gamma Emerald]

tbh I think mhsmith0 should have a decent analysis of the setup when he gets to it, because I've seen him talk about cop/JK setups before

[Kairal]

Seems to me that the only thing we got from our power roles was a single green check. Didn't seem that strong. Btw can we get access to spec thread?

[Gamma Emerald]

You refer to the review PT correct?

[mhsmith0]

wrt cop/jk, I'll reference what I said postgame in 1848:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8747789

I am not a reviewer, but I would somewhat disagree. Jailkeeper and cop (even if odd night) are VERY strong roles, and scum has no power to block their actions. The game going scum-sided would have required either heavy luck (like the scum hitting town's power very early) or the 1-shot vig really blowing a shot and hitting a town PR (objectively, a 1-shot vig should more or less never be shooting night 1 barring just flagrant obvscum or a mechanically locked day 1 dipole where town picked the wrong side).


For comparisons, some other mini normal 10v3 JK/Cop games:

1445 scum win
cop/jk vs goon/goon/tracker

1559 town win
cop/jk/2-shot day gun inventor vs 2-shot strongman/role cop/goon

1589 scum win
cop/jk/1-shot day vig vs role cop/goon/goon

1707 town win
ascetic odd night cop/even night gunsmith/jk/backup role cop vs encryptor/goon/goon

1708 scum win
1-shot gunsmith/even night cop/jk/backup vs goon/1-shot tracker/goon

1715 town win
cop/doc/jk/role cop vs godfather/role cop/roleblocker

1796 scum win
cop/jk/1-shot bp vs 1-shot strongman/JOAT/goon

1838 town win
Cop/JK/2xAscetic vs Neapolitan/Goon/Goon

this one, town win
odd night cop/jk/1-shot vig vs neapolitan/1-shot strongman/goon

I'd consider this a bit more scum-favored than most of the cop/jk setups, but I'm not sure it needed all that much help. probably would be fine just by chucking the strongman or nerfing the neapolitan by making it odd night, but even as is I think it's pretty reasonably within the bounds of normal variation in balance.

cops are super strong roles, and town got two halves of a cop, meaning that it was pretty likely that they'd get at least one check with realistic odds of getting multiple ones. Probably scum should have gotten a little bit extra to compensate, but I'm not sure they needed more than, say, a 1-shot strongman or 1-shot roleblocker.

[Firebringer]

Thats odd to put in a Odd AND Even night cop.....
If I was in the game, i wouldn't believe there was two cops.