Mini Normal 1873 (Game Over)

[mastina]

Twenty-first Votecount

:

karnos - 4 (Garmr, XnadrojX, BlueBloodedToffee, PranaDevil)

All Alone - 2 (Lexa, LicketyQuickety)

PranaDevil - 2 (ThinkBig, Alisae)
BlueBloodedToffee - 1 (TheRealGin-N-Tonic)
LicketyQuickety - 1 (All Alone)
XnadrojX - 1 (karnos)
Alisae - 1 (shannon)

Not Voting - 1 (Pepchoninga)

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to lynch.

karnos is at L-3.

Day 1's deadline is Friday, February 10th, @ 2:30 PM PST--(expired on 2017-02-10 14:30:00).

V/LA Notices/Mod Notes:

• mastina, the moderator, is V/LA over weekends.
  
• Lexa is V/LA through Tuesday, January 24th.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

YOU STOP THAT

<<< I DON'T WANNA >>>

[All Alone]

Just because you admit to saying you're OMGUSing doesn't mean you alleviate the scumminess off of the post

well wtf am I supposed to do then, call it something else and pretend it isn't OMGUS?

[All Alone]

My problems with AA:

Infrequent posts
Not much info in posts
Not saying anything new in posts
2 OMGUSes.

so nothing alignment indicative then?

Also, AA's analysis of my pressure on them is totally off. It should be clear to people by now I have put the most pressure on people I am trying to get a read on, which has come up twice now.

I don't think you're trying to get a read on me though. All you did when you voted me was call my vote on PranaDevil OMGUS. My vote on PranaDevil was, objectively speaking, OMGUS. What am I gonna do, disagree with an objective fact? How does it help you sort me when regardless of alignment, my only possible response is to say, "yup, I can confirm that this vote was indeed OMGUS"?

All I see you pushing on me is things that are objectively true but not actually alignment indicative, and I think you know they aren't. Convince me I'm wrong here.

[All Alone]

I will therefore move on to OMGUSing the current worst push on me:

Hey AA. I got a joke for you.
What's black and white and red all over?

the newspaper headline "Alisae Convicted of Plagiarism"

[All Alone]

All Alone dives into scum spot 1 though by still not actually doing anything

the inability to do any scum hunting so far.

has made no attempt to scum hunt or solve the game. He has yet to post any reads or any analysis of his own.

Wow this is some really amazing analysis you guys! Try reading

anything at all I've posted after the UNVOTE post.

[All Alone]

You know what, go for it.

I don't have the patience to try to break of a clique of fanatics.

Just make sure you lynch XnadrojX & Garmr, in that order, after me.

I don't know why nobody else pointed this out, but this AtE

really

doesn't seem like it's coming from a vengeful townie planning to shoot nadroj.

VOTE: karnos

[All Alone]

Actually.
What we can do is we could leash who Karnos kills.
Suggest like 3 names for him to kill.
And then he kills whoever out of that pool.
Good idea anyone if the claim is real?

How exactly would we leash karnos? Like if we lynch him and he shoots out of the pool, we lynch him again?

[All Alone]

It's the wording of the post to me. The line "scum will just NK him" screams that they know scum will kill him. Not "they might", no "what if he's scum?" In there at all, just "scum will kill him".

I once pushed an argument this good, then I played my second game.

[PranaDevil]

Right, I'm properly awake, and I'm going to start checking over things (via laptop in fact to make things better), starting with where karnos pointed out Jordan's contradiction in post #651

There was no contradiction upon actually checking it out. The first was a town read on Alisae, the second was not liking cases based off what scum would or wouldn't do. That's fine. There's a difference between a read and a case. I'll also however say that I kinda like stuff about whether scum are likely to do something. Sure it can be WIFOM, but if used in addition to other stuff it can be a great help.

Garmr is also correct about town can be hypocritical at times. Especially in long games, plus memory (or lack thereof) can be a thing. However it does depend on situation, so its always worth investigating... hell, everything's worth investigating.

karnos post #656 still hasn't been explained, and has gone straight under the radar since his claim.

One thing i want to put a stop to is the bullshit "shade" business.. fuck off with that crap. You should be questioning EVERYONE, not tunneling a single sodding person, so yes, it's 100% fine to make a case, or critique someone, or point out scummy shit, even if you are not voting for them. Shade is some new bullshit that's clearly cropped up in my time away from the site, and as far as I can tell it's a cracking device scum will be able to use to claim someone looks scummy without them actually being scummy. So literally every argument I see with "shade" in it is being disregarded as "I haven't a fucking clue what I'm on about and don't understand how to scum hunt" from here on in. If you aren't questioning reason behind posts, and pushing multiple people you're playing the game wrong. Ergo, it's perfectly fine to go "hey guys, this looks scummy as fuck, my main scum pick is X, but this post by Y needs more attention". Especially as we know there's more than a single scum in the first place, and, being human, we will make mistakes. Much as I'd love us to hit scum every lynch, the chances of it are minimal, so even a top scum read could be wrong, and our top town read could be wrong.

You know what, go for it.

I don't have the patience to try to break of a clique of fanatics.

Just make sure you lynch XnadrojX & Garmr, in that order, after me.

Anyway, after I die, XnadrojX will flip scum. Please lynch his obv partner Garmr tomorrow.

Yes, this is a serious claim.

These two do not match up, as AA points out above, karnos suggesting we lynch Jordan tomorrow, then claiming Jordan will be killed by him just shows it was a desperate claim.

Something else really doesn't match up either.

Nah, Karnos is a great lynch.

He is trying to scare away a potential hammer by saying he might shoot them.

You're not wrong. He is a great lynch.

Is he trying to scare away a potential hammer? Nah. I think we have more time to spend and we could be looking elsewhere, that's all.
Plus if we do decide to let him live, scum will just NK him.

That bit in bold, does not match up with:

Hold up, that last line I really, really do not like. If we let him live scum will NK him sounds like you know he's town and scum need him out of the way.

Okay, why wouldn't scum kill him?

And I believe the claim

.

You believe the claim... and feel karnos is a great lynch? These do not match, it's one or the other. he's either a great lynch for being scum, OR he's town, and thus would be a bad lynch. The two cannot co-exist.

I also really dislike Alisae's "intent to hammer" post, only to derail the entire thing so quickly, and then point out we have "15 days left, no need to lynch". Why the sudden change right there too?

I'm also going t totally contradict myself now I'm more awake and re-reading it, I honestly don't think Alisae derailed the karnos wagon through not wanting to lynch known town. I'm actually of the view Alisae is scum, but so is karnos.

These Prana votes are superrrrrr bad.

Please explain

Yep, I want explanation, I'm reading my stuff this morning and even I can understand that it reads a bit shitty. So please tell me why they are bad? (Well... Alisae's is but that's because he's scum)

LQ, why is shannon's post "shady" (urgh) as fuck? it's a perfectly fine post, though I will admit I no longer agree about scum "will" NK karnos, instead I kind of read it as directing the possible doc that way to open up any NK they want. If the doc protects the "vengeful" we have no protection elsewhere...

So if we don't end up lynching karnos (we still totally should, that's 100% the ideal lynch for the day), if there's a doc... don't sodding well go there, protect someone who may actually be town instead.

All Alone dives into scum spot 1 though by still not actually doing anything

the inability to do any scum hunting so far.

has made no attempt to scum hunt or solve the game. He has yet to post any reads or any analysis of his own.

Wow this is some really amazing analysis you guys! Try reading

anything at all I've posted after the UNVOTE post.

Deal. Up until this point you have (in order) :

Asked why you'd have no scum reads as scum

Said your tactics are more reactive (yet at this stage, done nothing)

Voted for me

Decided I was town and went for LQ, with no reasoning beyond "OMGUS"

And here we are... so I stand by my previous statement, you've done sod all.

-------------

So, as it stands, my opinion is thus:

karnos is scum, the vengeful claim is quite clearly bullshit as already pointed out by AA above, my vote stays on karnos as I want him lynched, like yesterday.

Alisae quite obviously wanted that wagon to dissipate and move elsewhere, I'll happily admit I cocked up royally (hey, I was at a gaming group when I read things first, then was knackered when I got home, I'll refrain from reading/posting when doing stuff or being tired in future, and you may all slap me if I deviate from this), and the push on Alisae, while a correct push, was the wrong reasoning. Alisae is scum along with karnos, and I'd be happy to lynch this way, but a karnos lynch is a huge preference as the wagon should not fall apart.

As it stands, I'm only willing to lynch one of these two right now, and I'll even throw in a special super sexy deal. If people are unsure if I'm scum or if karnos is scum if somehow he "is" a vengeful (he's not, and we all know this), then he should fire at me then you get rid of your other scum read as well.

That's literally how confident he'll flip scum I am, as he wont shoot me... he's not a vengeful, he's the scummiest scum that ever scummed.

[shannon]

This (Prana's above me) is a town post. It's the towniest post that ever posted. Everything I've quoted in bold is spot on.

*snip*

You know what, go for it.

I don't have the patience to try to break of a clique of fanatics.

Just make sure you lynch XnadrojX & Garmr, in that order, after me.

Anyway, after I die, XnadrojX will flip scum. Please lynch his obv partner Garmr tomorrow.

Yes, this is a serious claim.

These two do not match up, as AA points out above,

karnos suggesting we lynch Jordan tomorrow, then claiming Jordan will be killed by him just shows it was a desperate claim.

Something else really doesn't match up either.

Nah, Karnos is a great lynch.

He is trying to scare away a potential hammer by saying he might shoot them.

You're not wrong. He is a great lynch.

Is he trying to scare away a potential hammer? Nah. I think we have more time to spend and we could be looking elsewhere, that's all.
Plus if we do decide to let him live, scum will just NK him.

That bit in bold, does not match up with:

Hold up, that last line I really, really do not like. If we let him live scum will NK him sounds like you know he's town and scum need him out of the way.

Okay, why wouldn't scum kill him?

And I believe the claim

.

You believe the claim... and feel karnos is a great lynch? These do not match, it's one or the other. he's either a great lynch for being scum, OR he's town, and thus would be a bad lynch. The two cannot co-exist.

I also really dislike Alisae's "intent to hammer" post, only to derail the entire thing so quickly, and then point out we have "15 days left, no need to lynch". Why the sudden change right there too?

I'm also going t totally contradict myself now I'm more awake and re-reading it,

I honestly don't think Alisae derailed the karnos wagon through not wanting to lynch known town. I'm actually of the view Alisae is scum, but so is karnos.

-------------

So, as it stands, my opinion is thus:

karnos is scum, the vengeful claim is quite clearly bullshit as already pointed out by AA above, my vote stays on karnos as I want him lynched, like yesterday.

Alisae quite obviously wanted that wagon to dissipate and move elsewhere

, I'll happily admit I cocked up royally (hey, I was at a gaming group when I read things first, then was knackered when I got home, I'll refrain from reading/posting when doing stuff or being tired in future, and you may all slap me if I deviate from this), and the push on Alisae, while a correct push, was the wrong reasoning. Alisae is scum along with karnos, and I'd be happy to lynch this way, but a karnos lynch is a huge preference as the wagon should not fall apart.

As it stands, I'm only willing to lynch one of these two right now, and I'll even throw in a special super sexy deal. If people are unsure if I'm scum or if karnos is scum if somehow he "is" a vengeful (he's not, and we all know this), then he should fire at me then you get rid of your other scum read as well.

That's literally how confident he'll flip scum I am, as he wont shoot me... he's not a vengeful, he's the scummiest scum that ever scummed.

[shannon]

VOTE: Karnos

That should be L-1. We already have a claim; unless Karnos wants to retract and claim something else?
Either way, pursue Alisae tomorrow

[ThinkBig]

Intent to hammer.

Karnos, if you want to retract your claim, now is the time.

[ThinkBig]

If people are unsure if I'm scum or if karnos is scum if somehow he "is" a vengeful (he's not, and we all know this), then he should fire at me then you get rid of your other scum read as well.

UNVOTE:

This is town.

[ThinkBig]

Here are my reads:

Town

:

{Shannon, LQ, Prana, Gin}

Lean town

:

{Garmr, Alisae}

Null

:

{Lexa, Jordan}

Lean scum

:

{Pep, AA}

Scum

:

{Karnos, BBT}

I initially scum read Prana for his push on Alisae. I didn't like his blatant misrepresentation of his argument and accusing him of being scum together. However, no way would scum say "If he's vengeful, then shoot me."

I still have a lean town on alisae. I've played with him in a few games and I'm used to his play style.

Shannon is bleeding town and love the analysis that she is doing. Never lynch her.

[PranaDevil]

I can understand knowing someone's playstyle BT, but mind answering why town Alisae would say karnos is a great lynch while simultaneously calling him town?

[XnadrojX]

@MOD

V/LA from the duration starting from tomorow to after the weekend. It's a very important weekend for some people

<<< I am noting this as being from Friday, January 27th through Monday, January 30th. If this is inaccurate, inform me. >>>

Prana and Shannon seems to be the most agreed on townread based on what is going on.
ThinkBig is a strange mix of scummy posts and townie posts. Don't really know how to read that slot.
Alisae just announced he's scum, and likely with karnos. Bringing off a lot of the votes off karnos was Alisae.
The fact that the wagon just dissipated like that indicates scum, probably a scumbuddy tried to derail.
I dunno about AA, he hasn't made enough posts for me to properly get a read on him, leaning scum for now I think.
That thing from Lexa is NAI, can't blame inconvenient timing looking opportune imo. (Unless I'm too trusting of people which I doubt)
There still was no reason to vote BBT over karnos, karnos still stood as the scummier person.
Speaking of karnos, the claim was shit. I doubt he actually a Vengeful townie (unless Vengeful Mafia but I've never heard of it) it looked a lot like a self defence move to me.

This is the best you're gonna get out of me for the weekend.

[ThinkBig]

@MOD: I will be V/LA starting this weekend and next week. School is starting back for me on Monday.

<<< I am noting this as being Friday, January 27th through Monday, February 6th. If this is inaccurate, inform me. Please note that thanks to the given length, you will not be allowed to go without posting. I will still prod you after three days of inactivity. Being absent for nearly two weeks is not excusable. >>>

[karnos]

A lot of activity.

First of all, Prana's case is full of holes. The biggest thing is that yesterday when I was actively posting, I was at L-3 and 15 days until deadline. I didn't feel a lot of pressure and I wasn't concerned about being quicklynched. I absolutely wasn't going to spout off my role for no reason, as others have pointed out it's much more valuable to keep it secret. That is why I repeated the lie that I wanted XnadrojX lynched after me, because I couldn't just come out and say I was going to vengekill him.

This changed rapidly as prana voted me, thinkbig voted me in a 1 hour period, and I realized if there was a scum that isn't already on my wagon I was in danger of being quicklynched, so I claimed.

Is prana saying I should have claimed earlier, at L-3? Or is he complaining that I lied about wanting XnadrojX lynched? Sorry, but I wasn't going to claim at L-3 with over 2 weeks until deadline. The game state changed rapidly yesterday afternoon and I momentarily hesitated before realizing I had to claim. That doesn't make me scum, if I was scum I could have invented any claim I wanted, and I could have picked something that didn't contradict my previous posts.

[karnos]

if karnos was really vengeful townie he would of hammered himself and then shot me or jordan. This is clearly a survival move because his afraid of a lynch.

This is incredibly stupid logic.

If I self hammer, I am trading a guaranteed town aligned player (myself) for XnadrojX, who I am maybe 70% confident in flipping scum. Vs if I don't self hammer, and we can turn the wagon around to an actual scum (such as XnadrojX), then I get that same 70% chance of hitting scum and getting them lynched without losing my own life.

I honestly disagree with the theory that I will immediately get night-killed. First off, I could be wrong about XnadrojX. If I am, scum would never nightkill me, because they would get an easy 2 for 1 kill by getting me miss-lynched instead. Second, I'm pretty damn close to being lynched already today. Scum kill the players who are heavily town read, the players who are not going to get miss-lynched under any circumstances, players who are acting as a town leader and being followed by other townie looking players. That is not me in this game, unfortunately.

Scum might night kill me later, they wouldn't want me in LYLO I agree, but that is several game days from now.

[karnos]

Also, town would really benefit from seeing who hammers me to force the issue, if I self-hammer we lose out on that information.

[karnos]

@MOD

V/LA from the duration starting from tomorow to after the weekend. It's a very important weekend for some people

Prana and Shannon seems to be the most agreed on townread based on what is going on.
ThinkBig is a strange mix of scummy posts and townie posts. Don't really know how to read that slot.
Alisae just announced he's scum, and likely with karnos. Bringing off a lot of the votes off karnos was Alisae.
The fact that the wagon just dissipated like that indicates scum, probably a scumbuddy tried to derail.
I dunno about AA, he hasn't made enough posts for me to properly get a read on him, leaning scum for now I think.
That thing from Lexa is NAI, can't blame inconvenient timing looking opportune imo. (Unless I'm too trusting of people which I doubt)
There still was no reason to vote BBT over karnos, karnos still stood as the scummier person.
Speaking of karnos, the claim was shit. I doubt he actually a Vengeful townie (unless Vengeful Mafia but I've never heard of it) it looked a lot like a self defence move to me.

This is the best you're gonna get out of me for the weekend.

And what is this load of crap? No response to my case on him, and total hypocrisy of calling me out for being "away" from the game just the day before he apparently plans duck out for the next 4 days.

[PranaDevil]

First, at L-3 when its 7 to lynch, you should absolutely feel pressure, that's over halfway to a lynch, that means you're see as super scummy, especially as you've been the number 1 wagon pretty much since the start. I also don't buy you not feeling pressure anyway, your arguments scream respoding to pressure.

Also, no, you didn't "repeat the lie" regarding Jordan an then have things change suddenly. You were ALREADY at L-1 when you "repeated the lie", Alisae then said he intended to hammer, and then you claimed.

There was no gap there, I just checked, its an outright lie.

Can we lynch the scumz nao plez?

[ThinkBig]

Permission to hammer?

[PranaDevil]

31 pages of content, we've tons to look back on, I'm fine with a hammer.