Mini Normal 1873 (Game Over)


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Post Post #2375 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:32 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 2366, mastina wrote:
In post 2356, Titus wrote:Didn't you also write a thing on cops and lylo? How you always lynch a cop the day before lylo?
I did write a thing about cops, but not of that sort.
My advice as a cop is to target players unlikely to be nightkilled, but who you value as strong, meaningful players likely to be of significance: to make a strong player conftown if you get an innocent, or to take out one of the scum's strongest players if you get a guilty. Gin did fairly well in this regard. Gin also used the Neapolitan shot well: with two claimed VTs (Garmr, Lexa), Gin used the Neapolitan shot to get a guilty on Lexa.
There's two schools of thought you're confabulating and a third as well that comes in rare circumstances.

Oh and do not get me started on gunsmith checks mastina. Remember TWIE.

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Post Post #2376 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:32 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 2374, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I still don't understand why you checked me :/
Cop living to lylo.
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Post Post #2377 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:33 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2372, Titus wrote:mastina told me hahaha fakeclaims for town, nope!
Technically I said, "hahaha fakeclaims in a Normal game, nope!", with an additional question about whether you read your role PM to know you were town, not scum. :P
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Post Post #2378 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:35 pm

Post by PranaDevil »

In post 2359, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:WHY DOES SCUM THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO CLAIM VENGEFUL
Ah see... that's the difference, I never claimed. I crumbed. The idea being of course i knew karnos was scum after that Vengeful cock up "how could he be one if I'm one?", and my refusal to claim a role fits too.

Incidentally why DID nobody question the fact I didn't claim? Everyone assumed I claimed VT, then when I pointed out I hadn't claimed... nobody said anything, despite my refusal to claim being the biggest sin I could have made previously... TB was the only one who said anything, and that was asking if I was counterclaiming Titus. Otherwise... nope, ignored entirely.
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Post Post #2379 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:35 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

I gave intent to hammer if you didn't claim and then I don't know what happened
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Post Post #2380 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:36 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 2378, PranaDevil wrote:
In post 2359, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:WHY DOES SCUM THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO CLAIM VENGEFUL
Ah see... that's the difference, I never claimed. I crumbed. The idea being of course i knew karnos was scum after that Vengeful cock up "how could he be one if I'm one?", and my refusal to claim a role fits too.

Incidentally why DID nobody question the fact I didn't claim? Everyone assumed I claimed VT, then when I pointed out I hadn't claimed... nobody said anything, despite my refusal to claim being the biggest sin I could have made previously... TB was the only one who said anything, and that was asking if I was counterclaiming Titus. Otherwise... nope, ignored entirely.
No. I actually knew why you didn't want to claim. I said as much. I was hoping to CC you.
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Post Post #2381 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:36 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

OH, yeah my logic was, I can burn a Prana lynch because we have a mislynch left.

OH HERP DE DERP IM GARMR.

There goes my fucking "mislynch" I needed.
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Post Post #2382 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:37 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 2379, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I gave intent to hammer if you didn't claim and then I don't know what happened
He claimed and launched into discredit Titus and I was checking the cop.
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Post Post #2383 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:37 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 2381, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:OH, yeah my logic was, I can burn a Prana lynch because we have a mislynch left.

OH HERP DE DERP IM GARMR.

There goes my fucking "mislynch" I needed.
Yeah. Garmr screwed the pooch.
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You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

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Post Post #2384 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:38 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

A lesson to be learned, don't be modkilled.
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Post Post #2385 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:38 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

(Not to say I learned a couple things myself)
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Post Post #2386 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:40 pm

Post by Titus »

Yeah.

The biggest lessons. No one is entitled to a TR.
Always check your work.
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Post Post #2387 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:41 pm

Post by PranaDevil »

I talked bollocks and everyone went "oh, well that's okay then". That's what happened.

And while your reasoning was sound, I had no intention of claiming any kind of role like that Titus. I believe I'd already decided the Vengeful idea by then, thus my refusal to claim.

Funny thing is as well Titus is you had me bang on the money. Not sure I accept the way you did it as being fool proof as it does ignore all context (bit like the Alisae wagon can't be viewed in a vaccuum either), but either way, you did manage to get the team correct. The entire game could (and likely should) have been different had your slot not been worthless up until you replaced in. Had it used its actions I'd be surprised if it wasn't more blatant who the scum were.

And Titus... I didn't claim. Legitimately. Never claimed. What you perceived as claiming was not a claim.
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Post Post #2388 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:42 pm

Post by PranaDevil »

In post 2381, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:OH, yeah my logic was, I can burn a Prana lynch because we have a mislynch left.

OH HERP DE DERP IM GARMR.

There goes my fucking "mislynch" I needed.
Oh yeah... Garmr happened!
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Post Post #2389 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:43 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

In post 2386, Titus wrote:Yeah.

The biggest lessons. No one is entitled to a TR.
Always check your work.
but it's me :P
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Post Post #2390 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:45 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

Honestly that's one my main things that's different from scum me and town me.

As town, "how fucking dare you accuse me"

As scum, "Okay you're right, but let me convince you how you're wrong"
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Post Post #2391 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:47 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 2389, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 2386, Titus wrote:Yeah.

The biggest lessons. No one is entitled to a TR.
Always check your work.
but it's me :P
Is your name Titus? No.
Are you mod confirmed? No.

Then I likely ain't callin you conftown.

Ask Mastina.
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Post Post #2392 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:52 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

Your stubbornness is hard to read
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Post Post #2393 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:53 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

In post 2392, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Your stubbornness is hard to read
unrelated to what you said previously.

Related to not reading the thread
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Post Post #2394 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:56 pm

Post by ThinkBig »

I think Titus should have taken my advice and tracked Lexa instead of obv town Gin.
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Post Post #2395 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 2394, ThinkBig wrote:I think Titus should have taken my advice and tracked Lexa instead of obv town Gin.
If Gin was conftown, I agree.
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Post Post #2396 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:07 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

but like, super obv town :p
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Post Post #2397 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:07 pm

Post by mastina »

Incidentally, my main two frustrations this game were the Pepchoninga slot and the obvious modkill.
I knew from N1 that Pepchoninga had siteflaked. However, I as the moderator could not justify a replacement of the slot because the only reason I was made aware Pepchoninga had siteflaked is because Pepchoninga had a power role--the fear there was that if I replaced the slot early, it would reveal that Pepchoninga had a PR and that was why I knew he had siteflaked. So when the town quicklynched TWICE in a ROW, delaying the replacement through normal legal means, I was rather frustrated: an essential core aspect of the town's power, one of their central roles, was out of the game for the entire duration the rest of the town's powers were expected to be in play. And I as the moderator was powerless to replace the slot because if I had suddenly replaced Pepchoninga going into, say, N2, it would be a big gigantic neon sign of, "THIS SLOT HAS A POWER ROLE AND THAT IS WHY I NEED IT IN THE GAME", so I couldn't replace it then.

I also couldn't replace the slot off of just players saying "I think that he siteflaked" (even though I knew that was true), because "I think" can, and was, proven wrong, such as when Garmr was thought to leave but then came back. (I mean, in hindsight given his actions it would have been better for the game's health if he WAS replaced, but the simple fact is, he did in fact come back so the only grounds I would have had to replace him is on policy via a force-replace, and at
that
time, he hadn't crossed a line that would justify doing so.)

So while I couldn't exactly say, "THANK YOU FOR FINALLY GIVING ME THE LEGAL GROUNDS TO DO THIS!" to Gin when Gin gave me evidence of the siteflake, I was very much happy that I could finally actually replace the slot. (Granted, this was a damned-if-I did, damned-if-I-didn't scenario: Pepchoninga having siteflaked meant that Pepchoninga could not have contributed anything during the night, but given that Titus was the lylo mislynch, I think I ultimately made the right call in this being the least-damaging of the options available.)

In future games, when a quicklynch happens (rare as those are), I'm thinking of instilling a rule: Sending a form of mass-prod to confirm all players are actually playing. "I must hear from EVERY player during the night. If a player fails to respond, deadline for night will be suspended and the slot will be replaced".

The other frustration was, obviously, Garmr. That was not something I wanted to deal with in my games, ever. Generally if a player is showing signs of toxicity, I will force-replace them. But prior to the day Garmr exploded, he was within normal boundaries. Players weren't being upset by him, and his language--while a bit on the harsher side--wasn't crossing any lines. I didn't even recall seeing any instance of him using language warranting a warning, though if I missed any (which is possible, because as a mod I tend to skim somewhat), my apologies.

Yet, even though the sample VT PM is public...Garmr quoted his role PM all the same--and even IF that weren't itself enough, he had it with TIMESTAMPS. As a mod, you really don't have any other choice at that point because that's just about as unambiguous as unambiguous can get, of being a quote of a role PM. Awkwardly enough, the thought of a modkill never really crossed my mind in my ruleset. It's something that moderators only do as an absolute last resort. (Or, well, SHOULD do only as an absolute last resort.) After doing thorough research and confirming the slot itself is in fact compromised. (A slot can still be saved often via a force-replace.)

I mean. I have a rule covering modkills: site rules as a rule in a game, because site rules have as a rule not to quote role PMs. But said site rule doesn't cover what to actually
do
when a modkill IS necessary. And while I did at one time have a rule on how to handle a modkill, it has not been in my rules for games upon games, years upon years, so I was left in the rather frustrating position of not knowing how to actually handle it. Obviously, the slot would be modkilled, and turned neutral survivor. But what would happen after the modkill? I didn't know.

Nexus personally told me how he resets votecounts and continues the phase, so ultimately, that is what I elected to do--I also figured that if the town WANTED the day to end without a lynch after the modkill, they could simply elect to vote for a no-lynch, which ended up being exactly what they did. Butstill, the game was irreparably damanged by the modkill, because modkills are always something which cause a game to be irreparable, and it was...unpleasant.
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Post Post #2398 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:09 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 2396, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:but like, super obv town :p
Cop in lylo.

@Mastina, I had the same problem in mass effect mafia. The town bp siteflaked. I pmed multiple times and the town kept lynching.

They even asked for prod and I had to say day too short.
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Post Post #2399 (ISO) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:11 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

UGH
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