Mini 1875: Pine's Death Trap Post Game - Town win!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

GG. Sorry for my shit play everyone.

Fake claim was suppose to get Matt lynched and Anakrin to LYLO

[Pine]

Subject: Hell is other people

Yeah, I think post-endgame is going to turn into an ad hoc theory discussion about Town gambits.

Is this the group discussion you want to have Pine?

Yes. I was going to get some other things done first, but let's get it rolling.

There were an absolute crapton of Town fakeclaim gambits this game. I'm looking at you, Rautherdir and RC.

I don't find them to be helpful or pro-Town. They

repeatedly

almost screwed Town over, to the point where it was sheer dumb luck that they didn't. Rautherdir claimed roleblock at the start of D3, after MBG

just happened

to jailkeep him the night before. If he'd claimed any kind of investigation at all, it would have (and should have) gotten him MLed. He also faked an innocent on RC (I think) which could have been disastrous if it had been wrong and believed.

All of the fakeclaims also completely screwed up your setup speculation. This was a very low-power game, and the Deputy + Motion Detector claims really threw that off its axle.

And that's not even touching all of RC's claims. Yeesh.

I'm not saying Town fakeclaims are always a bad idea, but they were way overboard this time around.

[nancy]

Subject: Hell is other people

Yeah, I think post-endgame is going to turn into an ad hoc theory discussion about Town gambits.

Is this the group discussion you want to have Pine?

They all turned out exceptionally well in this game, but I get the feeling we were also exceptionally lucky. Pushing RC, the inno, not retracting, it all aligned in a weirdly perfect way for Town.

[nancy]

Also, if anyone has any advice for me, I'd love to hear it. Learned such a lot over the course of this game, about myself and about the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Which claim of mine do you believe hurt down or had serious potential to?

[Pine]

Also, if anyone has any advice for me, I'd love to hear it. Learned such a lot over the course of this game, about myself and about the game.

Trust your gut a bit more. You tend to bounce all over the place and turn on a dime. While guarding against complacency is a trait that the best Town cultivate, too much of it can turn into paranoia. Conversely, perseverating on stale reads you don't really believe in anymore is just as destructive. It's a fine balance.

Which claim of mine do you believe hurt down or had serious potential to?

Well......you have a distinct reputation for making fakeclaims, so I don't think they actually affected the game much at all. Which is kind of its own problem. When you gambit so much that it has no effect, you're kind of just spinning your wheels.

[RadiantCowbells]

The guilty was never about getting Gin lynched. Gin was dying and I was never going to let anyone else get touched. The guilty was about making sure that MBG didn't get NKed. It worked.

[RadiantCowbells]

I didn't expect dead thread to be a bunch of people bitching about me.

[Pine]

No it didn't. TB no-killed for the WIFOM, you didn't have anything to do with it. He was hoping to get MBG's jailkeep target MLed. I'd be utterly shocked if anyone failed to see through the tracker claim.

[RadiantCowbells]

And who was it that saw right through that again and wanted to lynch TB since the moment they saw the flip?

[Pine]

Yeah, those two points are not connected in any way.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok. speaking specifically gambits wise:

do you or do you not think that me treating mbg like confscum in the EOD of D3 contributed to him surviving? Was that a good or a bad thing?

[RadiantCowbells]

Hell, if I hadn't been fake innod I may or may not have been lynched D2. If I was do you think town ends up winning?

[mattblackguy]

Hell, if I hadn't been fake innod I may or may not have been lynched D2. If I was do you think town ends up winning?

Not really you had 3 votes on you, 2 of which were scum, and most of the town was against your lynch.

Anyways GGs to all, and thanks for modding Pine. The flavor was great, and would love to /in if you mod again anytime soon.

Has scum thread been released?

[Grendel]

Subject: Hell is other people

Yeah, I think post-endgame is going to turn into an ad hoc theory discussion about Town gambits.

Is this the group discussion you want to have Pine?

Yes. I was going to get some other things done first, but let's get it rolling.

There were an absolute crapton of Town fakeclaim gambits this game. I'm looking at you, Rautherdir and RC.

I don't find them to be helpful or pro-Town. They

repeatedly

almost screwed Town over, to the point where it was sheer dumb luck that they didn't. Rautherdir claimed roleblock at the start of D3, after MBG

just happened

to jailkeep him the night before. If he'd claimed any kind of investigation at all, it would have (and should have) gotten him MLed. He also faked an innocent on RC (I think) which could have been disastrous if it had been wrong and believed.

All of the fakeclaims also completely screwed up your setup speculation. This was a very low-power game, and the Deputy + Motion Detector claims really threw that off its axle.

And that's not even touching all of RC's claims. Yeesh.

I'm not saying Town fakeclaims are always a bad idea, but they were way overboard this time around.

Motion detector was LUV!scum's fake claim. That's a bit different then town fake claiming something

What are some situations you've seen that you'd classify as a town fake claim done right?

[RadiantCowbells]

Fair enough. And I'm not intending to defend Rautherdir because I believe that they hurt town badly in a number of ways and should have immediately retracted on D3.

But I don't think anything I did hurt town besides the Gerry push and besides having an incorrect read I don't think anything there was my fault.

[mattblackguy]

I knew something was weird when Rauth said he thinks me and LUV could both we town. I just didn't put together he was VT fakeclaiming backup Cop. I guess he wanted to be like you RC

[RadiantCowbells]

[Grendel]

I think Grendel is town. everyone else can die.

RC was I really your strongest endgame town read?

I barely said anything in the past two days lol.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yes you were. I figured we had one person outside of me/MBG who we had to assume was town for the end and my first choice was you.

[RadiantCowbells]

If Cooperative Sheep wasn't a universal scumread it may have been him too but I didn't feel like fighting crowd sentiment when I was equally certain that you were town.

Idk it's just kind of rattling that I started the JJD wagon, immediately called the associatives with LUV, only to get sidetracked by town fakeclaiming (and if Fro99er wasn't so adamant I'd have still insisted on lynching Uzi that day), then immediately nailed Gin/TB in consecution to read a dead thread of people bitching about my play.

Even if you don't like my gambits I feel like my scumhunting after the Gerryoat fuckup was on point. I am sad.

[mastina]

What are some situations you've seen that you'd classify as a town fake claim done right?

I can think of a couple of them (even from the same game!), yes.

[Pine]

Ok. speaking specifically gambits wise:

do you or do you not think that me treating mbg like confscum in the EOD of D3 contributed to him surviving? Was that a good or a bad thing?

Hell, if I hadn't been fake innod I may or may not have been lynched D2. If I was do you think town ends up winning?

I don't think your gambits had anything to do with any of what you just mentioned. The only thing that may have been believed was that you were full bulletproof, a fib I'd make every time.

What are some situations you've seen that you'd classify as a town fake claim done right?

It's pretty limited. For starters, they're best used sparingly. I'd go several games between attempts, bare minimum. They are also best when they are exaggerations or minimizations of the truth, such as claiming Doc when you're actually a Bodyguard, or Cop as a Hider. My various waffling about my abilities in Clumsy's Curse of Strahd mini is a good example of a Town lie.

When they're bad is when they're provably or demonstrably falsifiable, or when they're made without a clear-cut and direct agenda. Anything that requires you to produce results that could be found to be wrong is dangerous. Doubling down on investigative roles greatly complicates setup spec. Claiming Tracker would have been just fine as BP, because you might draw the kill onto your shield. But doing so flippantly for a murky reason with a robust investigator already flipped when you've already claimed something else is just unhelpful. The dead thread and I collectively rolled our eyes.

[Pine]

What are some situations you've seen that you'd classify as a town fake claim done right?

I can think of a couple of them (even from the same game!), yes.

Fun fact: scumteam didn't believe either of them.

[Grendel]

If Cooperative Sheep wasn't a universal scumread it may have been him too but I didn't feel like fighting crowd sentiment when I was equally certain that you were town.

Idk it's just kind of rattling that I started the JJD wagon, immediately called the associatives with LUV, only to get sidetracked by town fakeclaiming (and if Fro99er wasn't so adamant I'd have still insisted on lynching Uzi that day), then immediately nailed Gin/TB in consecution to read a dead thread of people bitching about my play.

Even if you don't like my gambits I feel like my scumhunting after the Gerryoat fuckup was on point. I am sad.

I thought that Gin/Luv's slot flipping scum made it pretty clear that sheep was town. It seems that Fro99er was the only other player that

really

picked up on that.

I think everything you did post D1's mislynch kept town moving in the right direction RC. You, and Keyser, were pivotal to town's victory imo. Things probably would have turned out differently if you died early/ weren't here for D3-D5.