Mini 1875: Pine's Death Trap Post Game - Town win!

[Pine]

I agree. RC's scumhunting and deductive reasoning, as well as his leadership capabilities focused Town and pushed it to an early win.

Don't get me wrong here, I disagree with the overuse of Town!gambits and found them to be a distracting and ineffective tactic, but RC earned this win.

[Rautherdir]

There were an absolute crapton of Town fakeclaim gambits this game. I'm looking at you, Rautherdir and RC.

I don't find them to be helpful or pro-Town. They

repeatedly

almost screwed Town over, to the point where it was sheer dumb luck that they didn't. Rautherdir claimed roleblock at the start of D3, after MBG

just happened

to jailkeep him the night before. If he'd claimed any kind of investigation at all, it would have (and should have) gotten him MLed. He also faked an innocent on RC (I think) which could have been disastrous if it had been wrong and believed.

I faked an innocent on RC because I recognized his play as something I would do as town, mostly because what RC did day 1 was a plan I had thought about after my first game, in which I was a 1-shot BP. If JJD hadn't flipped town I would have retracted immediately day 3 and pushed a lynch on RC. I knew the moment I survived that night that I was almost certainly roleblocked. As for why I didn't retract... I was worried about Lynch All Liars. Honestly now that I think about it, Keyser and RC probably would have kept the rest of town from lynching me if I had retracted.

But anyways, enough blatant excuses, Good Game everyone!

pEdit: Yes, Keyser and RC are the most valuable players of this game.

[Grendel]

What are some situations you've seen that you'd classify as a town fake claim done right?

I can think of a couple of them (even from the same game!), yes.

I actually read some of that Game!

I was reading NachoMama's posts and saw how he caught the GF (Kata-whateverhisnameis) in his death by hiding behind the GF.

I did see your twilight masonizer gambit too. I thought it was pretty awesome move on your part!

[Pine]

Mastina's move was great. It just wasn't believable.

[Grendel]

What are some situations you've seen that you'd classify as a town fake claim done right?

It's pretty limited. For starters, they're best used sparingly. I'd go several games between attempts, bare minimum. They are also best when they are exaggerations or minimizations of the truth, such as claiming Doc when you're actually a Bodyguard, or Cop as a Hider. My various waffling about my abilities in Clumsy's Curse of Strahd mini is a good example of a Town lie.

When they're bad is when they're provably or demonstrably falsifiable, or when they're made without a clear-cut and direct agenda. Anything that requires you to produce results that could be found to be wrong is dangerous. Doubling down on investigative roles greatly complicates setup spec. Claiming Tracker would have been just fine as BP, because you might draw the kill onto your shield. But doing so flippantly for a murky reason with a robust investigator already flipped when you've already claimed something else is just unhelpful. The dead thread and I collectively rolled our eyes.

Hm okay. Most of this isn't news to me.

I often underplay my hand as a strong power role to avoid getting night killed. Like saying I'm a weaker variant of a strong role, Neocop vs role cop.

Likewise as a middling power role I over play my hand to draw. Ex claiming full vigilante when I'm actually X-shot.

Which is like you said. Telling the truth, but leaving out a critical component that would otherwise change how scum interacts with your slot.

[Grendel]

There were an absolute crapton of Town fakeclaim gambits this game. I'm looking at you, Rautherdir and RC.

I don't find them to be helpful or pro-Town. They

repeatedly

almost screwed Town over, to the point where it was sheer dumb luck that they didn't. Rautherdir claimed roleblock at the start of D3, after MBG

just happened

to jailkeep him the night before. If he'd claimed any kind of investigation at all, it would have (and should have) gotten him MLed. He also faked an innocent on RC (I think) which could have been disastrous if it had been wrong and believed.

I faked an innocent on RC because I recognized his play as something I would do as town, mostly because what RC did day 1 was a plan I had thought about after my first game, in which I was a 1-shot BP. If JJD hadn't flipped town I would have retracted immediately day 3 and pushed a lynch on RC. I knew the moment I survived that night that I was almost certainly roleblocked. As for why I didn't retract... I was worried about Lynch All Liars. Honestly now that I think about it, Keyser and RC probably would have kept the rest of town from lynching me if I had retracted.

But anyways, enough blatant excuses, Good Game everyone!

pEdit: Yes, Keyser and RC are the most valuable players of this game.

Interestingly enough my strong town read of Nancy came from her making a case against her town read of RC to hunt for opportunistic scum that might jump onto the wagon.

I did the exact same thing in a previous game as town.

Nancy also did other things that heavily paralleled what I was doing in that game. Really weirded me out tbh.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=68600

[nancy]

I thought that Gin/Luv's slot flipping scum made it pretty clear that sheep was town.

Why was this?

[nancy]

Interestingly enough my strong town read of Nancy came from her making a case against her town read of RC to hunt for opportunistic scum that might jump onto the wagon.

I did the exact same thing in a previous game as town.

Nancy also did other things that heavily paralleled what I was doing in that game. Really weirded me out tbh.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=68600

I did a very similar thing in my second newbie game, coincidentally.

[nancy]

I thought that Gin/Luv's slot flipping scum made it pretty clear that sheep was town.

Why was this?

EBWOP.

[nancy]

I think if that Transcend lynch had gone through Town would just have lost. There was a lot of negative energy around RC's slot when I replaced in and it would've been ugly Day 3 after 2 mislynches.

[nancy]

Also thanks for keeping a cool head Grendel when my read on your slot was basically spasming for 2 Days straight.

[mastina]

What are some situations you've seen that you'd classify as a town fake claim done right?

I can think of a couple of them (even from the same game!), yes.

Fun fact: scumteam didn't believe either of them.

They also didn't need to, since the TOWN did.

[Grendel]

I thought that Gin/Luv's slot flipping scum made it pretty clear that sheep was town.

Why was this?

If Sheep were scum utilizing a masscliam for scums benefit, why would they have encouraged LUV to fake claim what and when he did. Even if LUV was operating on the fly it seems like he would have had some intel from sheep as to what would be good claims for the situation. LUV claiming a

third investigative

was and in a SheepxLUV relationship I don't think LUV would've ran that play.

Plus I don't think there wasn't much scum chemistry between their demeanors, specifically how LUV treated Sheep. Though this point is a bit more abstract/gut.

Also thanks for keeping a cool head Grendel when my read on your slot was basically spasming for 2 Days straight.

I had no idea at what level you were operating at logically, but I definitely didn't see it coming from scum.

Why were you so paranoid of me?

[mastina]

Mastina's move was great. It just wasn't believable.

You still wasted your block on me anyway! And then wasted your strongman on me!

[nancy]

Why were you so paranoid of me?

It felt like you were skating. I also just had no idea what I was doing.

[nancy]

Mastina's move was great. It just wasn't believable.

You still wasted your block on me anyway! And then wasted your strongman on me!

That was such a wonderful game.

[Transcend]

grendel most obvious town in the game lol lol lol

[mastina]

Mastina's move was great. It just wasn't believable.

You still wasted your block on me anyway! And then wasted your strongman on me!

That was such a wonderful game.

It really was.

[Pine]

Mastina's move was great. It just wasn't believable.

You still wasted your block on me anyway! And then wasted your strongman on me!

Yeah, well, you scary. And you know me too well. And everyone was TRing you with a deathgrip. We needed to break up the Townbloc, and you were deemed the linchpin of it.

The roleblock was to try to frame you, just in case we were wrong. You said it would fail if you targeted scum, so we set you up to fail, mislynch a Townie, then mislynch yourself when they flipped.

The strongman was just because we needed you dead and thought you'd likely be protected.

grendel most obvious town in the game lol lol lol

Don't get down on yourself, Grendel. One of the most valuable things a VT can do is just plain make yourself Townread. PRs have the resort of claiming to dodge a lynch, VTs don't have the luxury. You did fine.

[RadiantCowbells]

Grendel was so obvtown. Were you being sarcastic?

[Pine]

No, I was not. By making himself obvTown, Grendel was a valuable member of the Townteam regardless of his level of input.

[RadiantCowbells]

I was talking to Transcend but yes.

[RadiantCowbells]

also let's be 100% clear
gin you were dying the next day. you were not walking that one off.
the guilty was to bait a nightkill and keep MBG alive, not because I had any doubt that you would die.

[RadiantCowbells]

and frankly if you genuinely believe that I had no chance of lynching you then it doesn't make sense to fault me for guiltying you: what was my other chance of victory?

[Transcend]

Grendel was so obvtown. Were you being sarcastic?

No.