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EeveeLution Army Mafia Scum
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Its not any one specific post...just the entire push seemed like he was hoping a lynch would happen on arona while possibly busing massive. Thats just me.In post 1965, Fro99er wrote:FF I'd rather vote massiveShow-Lord Giratina-
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Like i said i personally don't see you or replacedin as more scummy which irritates me like crazy.Show-Lord Giratina-
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Yeah, I'll just post where I'm at, don't really see the gain in holding my cards to my chest anymore.
I don't see Aliaes's replace in posts as him genuinely attempting to solve the game or analyse the information that was put forward to him, I think his comments re; Arona and it being a fake claim point towards him trying to open up an avenue to get mslynched given otherwise he's got a difficult task in winning from here, think his reaction towards me shutting down the Arona suggestion doesn't make any sense coming from town but makes plenty from scum.
I'm not seeing him actually take into account or even bother to check back at the manner Arona claimed or anything of the sort, I think that attitude from him directly contradicts how badly he wanted someone to post at day start as in if he was that eager and town I think he'd have donesomereading prior or done the reading of snippets when directed towards them. I think the night kill makes more sense from him then Eeve in that Eeve making the statement yesterday that he thinks Mulch is possibly where people are wrong (despite her being clear) and then shooting her at night feels like an odd and unlikely progression for scum to make in comparison to Alisae just shooting Mulch not being aware of gamestate whereas I think Eeve just shoots Arona.
Also think the way he's gone about actually interacting with me feels more like him trying to tilt me rather than him attempting to garner a read on me there, his comments particularly the "i'm not going to scumhunt him because that's what you want" is a very ??? comment given he'd want to actually get a solid read on both myself and Eeve if he was town here given it'd be in his own interests there. It's not like it was a leading question or forcing him to come out with a particular stance, just to actually have a well-reasoned read based on the events that have transpired over the game. His other comment of "I think Eeve is town because you're pushing him" is nonsensical in that with 1 scum remaining he has to consider two worlds, a) I'm mafia in which case Eeve isn't' scum because I'm pushing him but town because I'd have to be the mafia or b) I'm town in which case it'd not negate the chances of Eeve being mafia but instead increase it. It's just a bunch of drivel from him. The whole "Lets 1 v 1" at a point where he'd not really read an ounce of the game feels like a scum gambit.
Most of the things he's pointed out inside Evees ISO feel like weaker points and think he's missed more important things like Eeves stances and treatement of both MMM & Massive, do recognise that we both analyse games very differently but would think there'd be even a little focus on that as town and the ultimate stance taken feels like one where he's setting himself up to continue his push on me while leaving himself the opportunity to switch to Eeve if it goes that way.
Also think the way he's interacted with Eeve comes across as him attempting to pocket Eeve rather than read him for the most part and the way he's attempting to discuss Froggers own actions here feels very agenda-driven here, particularly given the '1 v 1' 'Town!FF' elements don't flow smoothly at all.
Chickadees defence of the LMK slot in Post 917 and again in Post 1038 makes plenty of sense as scum defending their roleblocker and doing whatever they can to minimise the chances of there being a wagon swing to have that role lynched D1, it's the most she defends any player in the game outside of LUV which doesn't really count given their circumstances. Argument can be made that she's WK'ing a town slot but the way she went about it didn't really play to give her town-cred upon it's flip or anything of that matter which again points towards it being a W/W thing.
I also think Froggers treatment of Arona/Massive/FF yesterday and the turn around he did makes plenty of sense as mafia, specifically him attempting to tie Arona-Massive together makes sense of him trying to get a mslynch post his partners flip. His reads for instance Post 1960 pre claim by Arona to him fabricating an out in Post 2113 to him considering a scum team of FF/Myself over Massive in Post 2123 has a lot of scum motivation behind it, most specifically being he needs the FF mslynch to go through there otherwise if Massive gets lynched there's potential for FF to be cleared via interactions. His reaction towards me pointing out how Massive/him makes sense feels very over-blown and hard to comprehend if he's town here too.
Think overall there's significantly more that points towards the Alisae slot being mafia here.
Vote: Alisae- Alisae
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Frog ended yesterday without being on anyone which felt a bit odd idk why he didn't keep his arona/massive lynch onShow-Lord Giratina-
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Froggers non-vote yesterday isn't an issue given he didn't post at all then making it completely null in that regard.In post 2330, EeveeLution Army wrote:Frog ended yesterday without being on anyone which felt a bit odd idk why he didn't keep his arona/massive lynch on
It's his lack of vote on Massive D3 which is the real kicker.
<<< Fixing quote tag. >>>Last edited by mastina on Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.- ReplacedIn
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Spoiler:
It's the above progression that I think is a huge scum tell, him going Arona+Massive are scum together has scum motivation in that he's linking Arona with his partner which allows him to push a mslynch while distancing, then when Arona becomes clear he starts targeting tying Eeve+Massive together and when it looks like it's actually possible that Massive might get lynched he unvotes and suggest that he now thinks the scum tea might be FF/Myself when FF was his strongest town read. It's him needing the FF mslynch to go through. The timing of his read changes there are really really really opportunistic.- ReplacedIn
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Like his consideration that I could be mafia in that last two posts of his in the spoilered post /having/ to mean that FF was mafia too from him is what doesn't flow naturally, it'd have been significantly more logical for him to consider the scum team to be just myself/eeve or myself/massive but him pulling FF back into the fray when he'd so strongly town read him earlier just screams scum needing to set up to get that mslynch to go through.
Like with Arona claiming and being cleared his win condition as scum went from "Need to get Arona/Eeve/RI lynched to win" to "Need to get FF/Eeve/RI lynched to win or need to get two of them lynched before Massive does". It's a change from him that doesn't flow as town but does as mafia.- EeveeLution Army
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I don't wanna vote without arona/danys thoughtsShow-Lord Giratina-
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So let me get this straight.In post 2328, ReplacedIn wrote:I don't see Aliaes's replace in posts as him genuinely attempting to solve the game or analyse the information that was put forward to him, I think his comments re; Arona and it being a fake claim point towards him trying to open up an avenue to get mslynched given otherwise he's got a difficult task in winning from here, think his reaction towards me shutting down the Arona suggestion doesn't make any sense coming from town but makes plenty from scum.
What you gave me were claims and "here, one of these people need to be lynched."
And instead of blindly following you, I question what you saying and you think I'm scum because of that?
Is there something wrong with forming my own opinions?
Oh wait
you're scum so it makes sense now.
You're right, I haven't done that!In post 2328, ReplacedIn wrote:I'm not seeing him actually take into account or even bother to check back at the manner Arona claimed or anything of the sort, I think that attitude from him directly contradicts how badly he wanted someone to post at day start as in if he was that eager and town I think he'd have donesomereading prior or done the reading of snippets when directed towards them. I think the night kill makes more sense from him then Eeve in that Eeve making the statement yesterday that he thinks Mulch is possibly where people are wrong (despite her being clear) and then shooting her at night feels like an odd and unlikely progression for scum to make in comparison to Alisae just shooting Mulch not being aware of gamestate whereas I think Eeve just shoots Arona.
Maybe I should
and then your push will be flawed.
Because this part is based on the assumption that I have read and saw how Arona claimed.
It was just a top of the head theory to attempt to get myself into the game
and I'm scum for questioning it now???
And okay
here's the thing
Scum!Eevee shooting Mulch works in the fact that people don't think scum!Eevee would do it.
So therefore scum!Eevee gets away with well, shooting Mulch and getting to LyLo assuming that is you sucessfully interacting me.
And even if I'm scum, I'm not going to go into this gamestate blind.
I will read up
I will lie about not having read
and I will make an accurate call on how I want to use nightkill accordingly.
And shooting Arona ensures that atleast one of Mulch and/or Danny get to LyLo if you think about it.
Sadly, I think you shot Mulch here.
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If you are going to force me to forget about my reads just to appease you, then yes, I will go about it as if I am trying to tilt you. Because I quite frankly hate it when someone tells me my reads are shit.In post 2328, ReplacedIn wrote:Also think the way he's gone about actually interacting with me feels more like him trying to tilt me rather than him attempting to garner a read on me there, his comments particularly the "i'm not going to scumhunt him because that's what you want" is a very ??? comment given he'd want to actually get a solid read on both myself and Eeve if he was town here given it'd be in his own interests there. It's not like it was a leading question or forcing him to come out with a particular stance, just to actually have a well-reasoned read based on the events that have transpired over the game. His other comment of "I think Eeve is town because you're pushing him" is nonsensical in that with 1 scum remaining he has to consider two worlds, a) I'm mafia in which case Eeve isn't' scum because I'm pushing him but town because I'd have to be the mafia or b) I'm town in which case it'd not negate the chances of Eeve being mafia but instead increase it. It's just a bunch of drivel from him. The whole "Lets 1 v 1" at a point where he'd not really read an ounce of the game feels like a scum gambit.
And hate it when someone tells me to go back to the newbie queue.
And you think I am trying to tilt you?
YOU TILTED ME IF ANYTHING
And it just seems like you planned that trap just to use it against me. Becuase you probably figured I would act that way.
It's manipulative, I'll give you that.
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Um, that is how I ~Play the Game~In post 2328, ReplacedIn wrote:Most of the things he's pointed out inside Evees ISO feel like weaker points and think he's missed more important things like Eeves stances and treatement of both MMM & Massive, do recognise that we both analyse games very differently but would think there'd be even a little focus on that as town and the ultimate stance taken feels like one where he's setting himself up to continue his push on me while leaving himself the opportunity to switch to Eeve if it goes that way.
as either alignment.
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Um. I can justify my sib's actions because we think alike. If you think it's agenda fuelled the okay, but I feel like if anything, this fuels your own agenda to try to force a lynch on me.In post 2328, ReplacedIn wrote:Also think the way he's interacted with Eeve comes across as him attempting to pocket Eeve rather than read him for the most part and the way he's attempting to discuss Froggers own actions here feels very agenda-driven here, particularly given the '1 v 1' 'Town!FF' elements don't flow smoothly at all.
Not addressing the other stuff because I don't think I can. I might look at the Frog stuff.| here.GTKAS- Alisae
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Like
I don't analyze interactions with flips
that's not really a strong suit of mine
my strong suit is just attempting to read people for their tone and do I believe the tone they are trying to convey here.
And Eevee reads genuine in that way.| here.GTKAS- Alisae
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Not particularly interested in getting into a huge wall v wall thing here since I think it detracts from the main points that I'm trying to get across.
Trust that iDanny & Arona will be able to see them.
Will address just a few small things in your recent post though;
1) I'd given you an idea of the gamestate, you were questioning it without going back and attempting to form an opinion based on what actually transpired; attempting to argue X could be scum when you don't even know if you think X is scum is very counter-productive as town but has plenty of scum motivation in that a) It allows you something to talk about, b) It means potentially opening up a mslynch you might not have been able to get previously.
2) Mulch was also cleared via Arona targeting her N1 and not dying on the night we know that GI was roleblocked, it's not really a case of "Mafia shot an unclear over a clear", it's more a case of I think Eeve would have been less likely to shoot Mulch based on his EOD comments, you can argue it's WIFOM and that's true, it's not really the strong point inside my wall. It's something I'm happy to drop to be frank.
3) You decided to replace in and not read the game, that's not something I agree with but can accept given the situation that we're in, was just asking you repeatedly to read the few players ISO's I thought were important and instead you attempted to belittle me like I'm someone that has no idea on setup design. Was trying to be as reasonable with you as possible despite wanting to swear when I saw you'd replaced in and being tempted to state my reads at daystart and replace out.- Alisae
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115 - This is a wierd way to attempt to shade someone while sounding surprisingly neutral about them.Spoiler: I destroy Bomberman's ISO aka Destroying Regfan pt 1 :D
128 - I don't want to attempt to sort Mulch and the logic he is using. IE avoiding scumhunting.
134 - I feel like this post is being made coming from someone who has more information then Mulch. Again, I feel like this is bomberman attempting to just avoid scumhunting mulch here.
172 - If you don't like what someone is doing and is calling it anti-town, then you vote them, not posture around them and act like you have information then they do. Like, he is playing surprisingly safe here for some reason.
179 - This concern right now seems really fake.
287 - This is the fairly safe stance to be taking atm. Like, he doesn't even want to do anything or attempt to get them to be cohesive, which is what he should have been doing if he's town here. If anything he's just letting town nitpick at themselves and not bothering to attempt to stop it. He's being a bystandard.
296 and 311 - Scum on Scum interaction. This is the one of the few times he actually interacts with one of his parnters, and it's just stalling and avoiding scumhunting. Not to mention not mentoining your partners is just an in general scumtell.
348 - But what about this frustration is towny. Just saying someone is frustrated isn't going to cut it, you have to say why and connect the dots. This isn't really being done here.
349 - This is just a terrible push. He's basicly pushing LUV for not saying much, but doesn't go into what he isn't saying or really attempt to hunt that.
354 - This heavily screams "I AM SCUM WITH MMM"
552 - And Regfan pushes me for acting tilted towards him. HELLO?
633 - This vote is hiding behind Grey who is doing all of the work for him and is 100% a bus.
646 - Speak for yourself, because Bomber is talking like he is accepting MMM's Fate. The frustration here is just really fake as well.
653 - And a really scummy post with lots of really scummy frustration. "GET THE FUCK OFF OF ME. STOP SCUMHUNTING ME. FUCK OFF."
tl;dr Bomberman's stances are super safe. What he does is just super safe. And when he goes out of his way to do something like what he did with LUV, telling him to Fuck off, it comes off as really fake frustration. He also says how he thinks the place became EpciMafia, but I don't buy he's genuine attempting to sort what's going on and if he's frustrated because scum were pushing him etc. Let me remind you there is no softs or claims or crumbs of anything relating to an Ascetic. Which makes me think it's a scum!Ascetic. Or that Regfan is lieing.| here.GTKAS- Alisae
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In post 2338, ReplacedIn wrote:Not particularly interested in getting into a huge wall v wall thing here since I think it detracts from the main points that I'm trying to get across.
Trust that iDanny & Arona will be able to see them.
Will address just a few small things in your recent post though;
1) I'd given you an idea of the gamestate, you were questioning it without going back and attempting to form an opinion based on what actually transpired; attempting to argue X could be scum when you don't even know if you think X is scum is very counter-productive as town but has plenty of scum motivation in that a) It allows you something to talk about, b) It means potentially opening up a mslynch you might not have been able to get previously.
2) Mulch was also cleared via Arona targeting her N1 and not dying on the night we know that GI was roleblocked, it's not really a case of "Mafia shot an unclear over a clear", it's more a case of I think Eeve would have been less likely to shoot Mulch based on his EOD comments, you can argue it's WIFOM and that's true, it's not really the strong point inside my wall. It's something I'm happy to drop to be frank.
3) You decided to replace in and not read the game, that's not something I agree with but can accept given the situation that we're in, was just asking you repeatedly to read the few players ISO's I thought were important and instead you attempted to belittle me like I'm someone that has no idea on setup design. Was trying to be as reasonable with you as possible despite wanting to swear when I saw you'd replaced in and being tempted to state my reads at daystart and replace out.but wall battles are fun.
1) Well then, I guess I have to read Arona's ISO to find out why don't I? Like, atleast give me some room to read it, and then interpret it. I mean, if did that and you were town, you could sort me better by analyzing my content, right?
2) See, this is where I disagree. Thanks for dropping it
3) And you did belittle me didn't chu? I mean, you belitted me, and then I belitted you. This is a fight YOU started which is what you aren't including. And regardless, I gave (and giving you) your content right now aren't I?| here.GTKAS- Alisae
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I also kinda want to add that thisIn post 2328, ReplacedIn wrote:do recognise that we both analyse games very differently
makes me look like I am very town for just having a different approach.| here.GTKAS- Alisae
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WAIT
OKAY REGFANIn post 2338, ReplacedIn wrote:a) It allows you something to talk about
THIS IS BULLSHIT
I don't need to use that to create something to talk about
I have many different ways of getting into this game Regfan
even if I didn't try that, I could always try out just reading the last 10 pages.
Or ISOing someone.
I don't need to "Create" something like that to talk about.
I'll just find something to do.
And talk about it.| here.GTKAS- Alisae
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I also kinda want to say I'm the better push right now for scum!Regfan
he could easily make himself look more town just based on my interactions with him and how we just cannot tolerate each other's posting.
And I'm not townreading him. Otherwise I feel like he would try to get me to townread him if he was scum.
And even then, he would probably push me because from my perspective he thinks I am like
super bad at this game
so if he wanted it he could do it.
Not to mention he probably has better chances trying to get Eevee to vote me then I have trying to get Eevee to vote Regfan.| here.GTKAS- ReplacedIn
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I don't think you anticipated the backlash behind your Arona discussion at all, I think you thought it'd have been town read as 'considering possibilities' and had you actually gone about it in a fashion where you'd reread Aronas claim and brought up specifics about it that you disliked or at really any sort of backing behind it whatsoever I'd not have had an issue with it. The way you went about it though didn't really come across as you genuinely trying to gamesolve though.
And your above post about Bombermans ISO (and several posts of yours above) is just the start of you pushing the only real narrative you have a choice to do at the moment as scum, it's going to be you attempting to construe every post of his to fit with your scum read there, the difference between you how you're assessing that for instance and the Eeve read are miles apart. Pretty much at the point where you're not really 'scumhunting' but instead trying to 'win a debate'.- Alisae
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Hey lookIn post 2344, ReplacedIn wrote:And your above post about how Alisae is scum (and several posts of yours above) is just the start of you pushing the only real narrative you have a choice to do at the moment as scum, it's going to be you attempting to construe every post of his to fit with your scum read there, the difference between you how you're assessing that for instance and the Eeve read are miles apart. Pretty much at the point where you're not really 'scumhunting' but instead trying to 'win a debate'.
I changed a name.| here.GTKAS- Alisae
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See there's a pretty big difference in that;
a) I've read the entire game, have brought up several of these concerns about your slot in the past, have made my thoughts not just on your slot but the entire game very much known and been pretty transparent with those thoughts. So it's not really a "Tunnel" situation as a I've taken a big deep look at the game and think your slot is very probably mafia. You've jumped from replacing into the game to wanting to set up a 1v1 within ~1 hour and are already attempting to push a narrative, there's no genuine consideration of anything from you here. Difference in that regard couldn't be larger.
b) I've taken a look at both directions of Frogger<->Massive, LMK<->MMM/Chickadee and Eeve<->Massive, Eeve<->MMM/Chickadee and pointed out that I think the biggest scum-tell inside the game right now is how Frogger treated the Massive/FF situation on D3, have spoiler-quoted and gone into detail about that. It's less a case of "look at how every post of Alisaes is so bad and scummy!" or "look how scummy ever post from the slot is" and more about the key concerns.- Alisae
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I've been somewhat Transparent too.
But you can't be Transparent when you can't even let actions target you sucessfully
And like
your first point is great an all
except its you that has to build the narative.
You have to A. Look like you're trying
B. Look like you're scumhunting
and C. Build a narative to push the people you need to push while having that look genuine.
Like
It really doesn't matter what status of "having read the game" or not you put on your head the matter is your saying just to make it look like you're pushing a narative.
And great
you look at associations
look at you
it just so happens you have more tools at your disposal to manipulate the town with your "narative."| here.GTKAS- ReplacedIn
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Effectively what I'm saying is, you've gone from "I scum read ReplacedIn, 1v1" almost instantly upon our interaction at daystart, then gone through Eeves ISO and gone "Probably town but there's some concerns there" then gone "I'm going to make a huge case on ReplacedIn being mafia" and all this before you've even taken a look at my ISO yourself. It's not how town players scumhunt or approach games, it's you having conclusion -> twisting the actual posts inside the game to back up said prior conclusion ie. pushing a prior narrative.
Anyway pretty much just waiting on iDanny & Arona to come in here now, should be pretty clear to them you're scum. - ReplacedIn
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