Mini Normal 1920 (Game Over)


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Post Post #2475 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:27 pm

Post by Regfan »

In post 2418, mhsmith0 wrote:Barring that, it was really a matter of how many town clears could be generated and/or how destructive a false guilty could be. Without scum generating a false innocent or a false guilty through roleblocker use, their path to victory was probably really really narrow (like, basically being required to kill the cop on n1 for starters)
This is my qualm with the setup, scum are fairly reliant on someone either being incorrectly cleared or incorrectly guiltied to be put in a good position in the game and given I'm not really a fan of GF type roles and think setups should minimise false clearances or guilties, I think mods are trying to get "too clever" with setups nowadays and that's not really what I like seeing in Mini Normals that often. And if that doesn't happen town are instantly put in a very strong position to the point where scum have the walls closing in on them and have to try and do something to save themselves and that something is almost always going to be noticed and scum read. Even with a fake guilty and a D1 mslynch here we still won his rather comfortably.

I acknowledge that setups aren't always designed around "what would happen if all N1 actions went well for town or what would happen if all N1 actions went badly" but I think the extremes should be at least considered and the setup amended to make sure it's not too drastically favoured for one side, potential for auto D2 is just..unfun and bad design.

Anyway that's enough about the setup for now, game was influenced by the setup but ultimately decided by reads thankfully in that all the cleared players were already town reads anyway.
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Post Post #2476 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:39 pm

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Normally against scum conceeding or giving up but I don't think Alisae would have won from here despite Eeve claiming to have been considering me. There was a lot I was holding back in this game that I was going to elaborate or touch on if I thought the chance of me getting mslynched was a real possibility, I've not been mslynched here in ~5 years and certainly doubt I'd have been in this game where I was very transparent with my thoughts. The game stagnated into a fairly painful situation for everyone involved and Alisae didn't have a way out of the position he was in and just ended it. Froggers vote history with Massive and his change on FF was always going to mean that slot was dying either today and if somehow not then certainly tomorrow.

Think the Mulch kill was a mistake, plausible that Mulch maintains the "Mastina wouldn't have PM'ed the slot if it was scum" logic which was pretty ?? if he lives which gives the slot more leeway than what iDannyboy did. Also think mafia not roleblocking GreyICE N2 was a mistake, it's a short-term gain for them in increasing the odds of getting the FF lynch but a long-term loss in that it provides town a clear if GreyICE plays it well (Which he did making sure to check town) and that clear limits scums options down the road.
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Post Post #2477 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:43 pm

Post by gerryoat »

gg all
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Post Post #2478 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:44 pm

Post by Mulch »

I still don't understand why Mastina would ask him to respond in PM when he could do mafia chat *sigh*
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Post Post #2479 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:47 pm

Post by Regfan »

In post 2478, Mulch wrote:I still don't understand why Mastina would ask him to respond in PM when he could do mafia chat *sigh*
Not something you read into, ever. There's enough content and information in the game to form solid reads.
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Post Post #2480 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:49 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2478, Mulch wrote:I still don't understand why Mastina would ask him to respond in PM when he could do mafia chat *sigh*
Specifically to prevent people like you from trying to game the mod. :P

Everyone responds by PM. Even the mafia.

This is the same reason why Fro99er needed to be replaced even if someone else were the last mafiate.
Everyone needs to be present for the night phase--everyone.
If a town player isn't present it can give a clear the town has absolutely no right to have.
If a scum player isn't present with only one scum alive it can give the town a guilty they have absolutely no right to have.
If a power role flakes, then it will be absent from the game at a time it should not be absent from the game.
And so on and so forth.

All slots should be filled promptly and immediately for an equal playing field. And they should be treated universally when handled, i.e., PM.
(That being said. I do insist on giving players who're about to flake as much time as possible to return to the game, as to guarantee it is indeed a siteflake and not a momentary absence. With my rules, that's 3-5 days.)
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Post Post #2481 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:50 pm

Post by Alisae »

honestly its best not to read into moderator actions too much
it doesn't help you grow as a player if you're just looking for loopholes.
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Post Post #2482 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:50 pm

Post by Alisae »

Like
just read peoples play
it's ez
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Post Post #2483 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:59 pm

Post by Mulch »

Also Mastina I'm sorry I didn't put much effort into this game but... like, I didn't understand half the theory talk about roles and so it was hard for me to get into it lol
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Post Post #2484 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:00 pm

Post by Mulch »

I think maybe you should have put a "not newbie friendly" tag into this game because this stretched the upper echelon of normal friendly roles imo at least compared to the others I have played which seemed much more straighforward. I guess I should have known what I was getting into but I specifically joined ur game cause I heard you were such a great mod and wanted to experience something like this at some point :)
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Post Post #2485 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:03 pm

Post by Alisae »

pfft
mulch you aren't a newb
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Post Post #2486 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:09 pm

Post by Mulch »

Maybe not but I was so fucking confused with the fake guilty etc shit that was going on and talking, and it made me upest lol
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Post Post #2487 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:09 pm

Post by Mulch »

On the plus side I did scumread all 3 scum so *shrug*
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Post Post #2488 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:10 pm

Post by Regfan »

@Mulch - Would recommend if you're not well versed in setup or role discussion to just mostly focus on pure scumhunting and just state your reads with reasons. Feel like instead of doing that you were just coming up with weird theories on what was happening and really limited the amount of impact or help you provided and you'd rotate between stepping back and not doing anything because you didn't want to hurt the town or putting forward a theory you'd not really thought through forward. I'd have liked to see some more posts like later in the game based on the more important and stronger tells that had happened because I really liked the style of that post there and saw potential from you in it.
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Post Post #2489 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:12 pm

Post by nancy »

In post 2400, mhsmith0 wrote:Yay I review a normal game and town wins :P
mastina mods a game and town wins :o
:2017-2018:
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?
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Post Post #2490 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:18 pm

Post by iDanyboy »

In post 2487, Mulch wrote:On the plus side I did scumread all 3 scum so *shrug*
That's what happens when you scumread everyone :eek:
Looking forward to see your play in our next game.
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Post Post #2491 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:24 pm

Post by nancy »

Regfan I want you in all my games ftr :P
:2017-2018:
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?
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Post Post #2492 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:32 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2483, Mulch wrote:I didn't understand half the theory talk about roles and so it was hard for me to get into it lol
You can ask!

My modding policy when it comes to questions is that the only stupid question is the one left unasked.

Especially when it comes to Normal roles and interactions!
All sorts of things are defined on the wiki.
I could tell you how Weak works.
I could tell you that Loyal is a Normal modifier now, and how it works.
I could tell you how an Ascetic works.
I could tell you what a Neapolitan does and how it differs from cops, gunsmiths, vanilla cops, and rolecops. (A Neapolitan is like a nerfed gunsmith which is already a nerfed cop: it gets false-guilties on ALL power roles rather than just power roles with a gun. So it has more in common with the cop than the rolecop.)

All you have to do is directly ask me and I'd explain! (I'm not allowed to answer when you don't directly ask me because it'd be considered mod interference for me to do so. So if you asked, "What does Loyal do?" in-game-thread, I can't answer; "MOD: What does Loyal do?", "
mastina:
What does Loyal do?", or PMing me, "What does Loyal do?" would ALL be things I
could
answer.)
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Post Post #2493 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:34 pm

Post by Regfan »

I thought I was hiding myself well D1 and had amended a few things about my posting but it seems a few people worked me out pretty easily, I suck at this alt'ing thing obviously.
In post 2491, nancy wrote:Regfan I want you in all my games ftr :P
Don't play here very often anymore and likely to take another short break. Would like to get in a game with sometime though!
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Post Post #2494 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:34 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2489, nancy wrote:
In post 2400, mhsmith0 wrote:Yay I review a normal game and town wins :P
mastina mods a game and town wins :o
It's happened before!

I mean, all three times were on mastin2, but it
has
happened! Gistou, Hilariously Unbalanced Mafia, and Hilariously Unbalanced Mafia 2.



...I'm not helping my case here am I? :P
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Post Post #2495 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:52 pm

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In post 2493, Regfan wrote:Don't play here very often anymore and likely to take another short break. Would like to get in a game with sometime though!
Not just referring to playing with you; I want you playing IN my (modded) games. :P
You taking a break would be a real loss for MS, however short. No offense to everyone else on the table but you were just on another level to everyone else here and I'd love to see you in a game where you're among players of comparable strength.
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hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?
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Post Post #2496 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:52 pm

Post by nancy »

In post 2494, mastina wrote:...I'm not helping my case here am I? :P
:P
<3
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Post Post #2497 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:08 pm

Post by Alisae »

lmao nancy
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Post Post #2498 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:53 pm

Post by Regfan »

@iDannyBoy - I'll ditto GreyICE's comment, I think your analysis and reads are very solid but think you'll become an even better player if you interacted with other players a bit more, elaborate on reads, question reads, things like that really increase the odds of town winning.

@EeveeLution Army - I think you need to have more of a presence inside the game, you don't need to be the loudest person in the room or anything of that sort but I don't think Alisae was wrong in that it felt like you were asking questions for the sake of it / to have something to do at times. You'd be better of trying to walk people through your thought process and stating your reads a little more even if you weren't confident in them. I'll take a player that's wrong about their reads but has presented them and shown willingness to reanalyse over someone that I can't really tell where their heads at or not sure what they're doing any day of the week, think you have some potential, would like to see you try and work on that.

@Arona, can't offer too much advice given I thought you played your role fairly well in that you held back and made sure you weren't on the radar for being a night kill and your voting habits and reads were pretty good. Do think there needed to be a little bit more of a crumb of the targets before actually targeting them since if you targeted scum and died at some point not sure we'd have ever worked out who.
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Post Post #2499 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:22 pm

Post by Regfan »

@FF, man it was both enjoyable and super frustrating playing with you this game. I think had you not been 'guiltied' we'd have had a real blast because I think we both had each other as town after our conversation D1. I can understand where your frustration with the game was coming from in that being guiltied and pushed on as town is most certainly not a fun thing to happen and it's natural to suspect or interact with the person guiltying you in a combative manner. That said I really think you needed to step back and realise that some people were listening to you and that it was possible for you not to be lynched, your self hammer was a mistake because while you dying 'drops the focus from being on you' it also removes a mslynch that town may have needed down the line and it's plausible you could have been interaction cleared; in fact if massive gets lynched D3 there and it's revealed the last scum has to be a roleblocker then Massives treatment of you over Chickadee D2 pretty much clears you. Also think the whole "bet" type thing with GreyICE is something you'll need to avoid doing in future, it's not really in the spirit of the game. Would like to play with you again in hopefully a less unusual situation though!
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